WEBVTT 00:00:15.190 --> 00:00:17.860 From Pacifica, this is Democracy Now! 00:00:18.610 --> 00:00:20.400 We will not allow Mr. Assange 00:00:20.400 --> 00:00:23.060 to take safe passage out of the United Kingdom, 00:00:23.570 --> 00:00:26.440 nor is there any legal basis for us to do so. 00:00:27.250 --> 00:00:29.880 A diplomatic standoff in London as Britain 00:00:29.880 --> 00:00:32.790 threatens to arrest Julian Assange after Ecuador 00:00:32.790 --> 00:00:34.630 grants him political asylum. 00:00:34.630 --> 00:00:37.350 We’ll speak with Assange’s attorney, Jennifer Robinson, 00:00:37.350 --> 00:00:40.660 and this country’s most famous whistleblower, Dan Ellsberg. 00:00:41.170 --> 00:00:43.080 Then, the battle for voting rights. 00:00:44.500 --> 00:00:47.020 Voter ID, which is going to allow Governor Romney 00:00:47.020 --> 00:00:49.080 to win the state of Pennsylvania: Done. 00:00:51.740 --> 00:00:54.060 Republican lawmakers in Pennsylvania 00:00:54.060 --> 00:00:56.240 are praising a Pennsylvania judge’s 00:00:56.240 --> 00:01:00.410 ruling upholding a controversial voter ID law 00:01:00.410 --> 00:01:04.700 that could disqualify hundreds of thousands of voters. 00:01:04.700 --> 00:01:06.130 Then we go to Russia, 00:01:06.130 --> 00:01:08.430 where members of the feminist punk group 00:01:08.430 --> 00:01:11.130 Pussy Riot have just been found guilty 00:01:11.130 --> 00:01:13.790 for staging an anti-Putin protest 00:01:13.790 --> 00:01:15.720 inside a Russian cathedral. 00:01:36.190 --> 00:01:40.440 We’ll speak to JD Samson of the bands Le Tigre and MEN 00:01:40.440 --> 00:01:42.520 and get a report from the Russian courtroom. 00:01:42.520 --> 00:01:46.160 All that and more, coming up. 00:01:50.630 --> 00:01:53.570 Welcome to Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, 00:01:53.570 --> 00:01:55.870 The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. 00:01:55.870 --> 00:01:59.480 Britain is vowing to deny safe passage to 00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:02.680 WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange despite Ecuador’s decision 00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:04.650 to grant him political asylum. 00:02:04.650 --> 00:02:08.470 Assange remains inside the Ecuadorean embassy in London, 00:02:08.470 --> 00:02:10.570 where he has stayed for almost two months 00:02:10.570 --> 00:02:13.220 in attempt to avoid extradition to Sweden 00:02:13.220 --> 00:02:16.030 for questioning over sex crime accusations. 00:02:16.030 --> 00:02:18.430 Assange’s lawyers say he fears 00:02:18.430 --> 00:02:21.240 Sweden will then extradite him to the United States 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:23.800 to face charges over the leaking of secret 00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:26.250 U.S. military and diplomatic files. 00:02:26.250 --> 00:02:28.540 On Thursday, British Foreign Secretary William 00:02:28.540 --> 00:02:32.000 Hague said Assange would be arrested if he left the embassy. 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:33.270 William Hague: 00:02:33.270 --> 00:02:35.600 "We are disappointed by the statement 00:02:35.600 --> 00:02:37.220 by Ecuador’s foreign minister today 00:02:37.220 --> 00:02:39.840 that Ecuador has offered political asylum 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:43.990 to Julian Assange. Under our law, with Mr. Assange 00:02:43.990 --> 00:02:47.090 having exhausted all options of appeal, 00:02:47.090 --> 00:02:50.170 the British authorities are under a binding obligation 00:02:50.170 --> 00:02:51.980 to extradite him to Sweden. 00:02:52.720 --> 00:02:54.770 We must carry out that obligation, 00:02:54.770 --> 00:02:57.010 and of course we fully intend to do so. 00:02:57.710 --> 00:02:59.190 The Ecuadorean government’s decision 00:02:59.190 --> 00:03:01.700 this afternoon does not change that in any way, 00:03:02.380 --> 00:03:05.610 nor does it change the current circumstances in any way." 00:03:05.610 --> 00:03:07.810 Britain has also threatened to raid the Ecuadorean embassy 00:03:07.810 --> 00:03:09.859 in order to arrest Assange within a week. 00:03:12.950 --> 00:03:15.120 At least 70 people were killed Thursday 00:03:15.120 --> 00:03:18.310 in a series of bombings and shootings across Iraq. 00:03:18.310 --> 00:03:20.350 It was Iraq’s deadliest day of violence 00:03:20.350 --> 00:03:23.580 since more than 100 people were slain on July 23. 00:03:24.260 --> 00:03:27.250 The U.S.-led NATO occupation force in Afghanistan 00:03:27.250 --> 00:03:29.410 has confirmed the deaths of 11 people 00:03:29.410 --> 00:03:33.980 in a helicopter crash Thursday, including seven U.S. soldiers. 00:03:33.980 --> 00:03:36.470 NATO spokesperson Günter Katz announced the news. 00:03:36.470 --> 00:03:38.310 Günter Katz: 00:03:38.310 --> 00:03:42.000 "ISAF helicopter crashed in Kandahar province today, 00:03:42.690 --> 00:03:45.960 resulting in the death of seven American soldiers, 00:03:47.110 --> 00:03:50.370 three Afghan national security force members 00:03:50.370 --> 00:03:52.570 and one Afghan civilian interpreter. 00:03:53.420 --> 00:03:55.790 The crash is still under investigation. 00:03:55.790 --> 00:03:59.280 I would like to express my sincere condolences 00:04:00.070 --> 00:04:05.150 to the loved ones and families of these 10 brave soldiers 00:04:05.150 --> 00:04:08.770 and their civilian colleague, who lost their lives today." 00:04:09.540 --> 00:04:12.640 The United Nations is phasing out its monitoring mission 00:04:12.640 --> 00:04:15.490 inside Syria amidst unrelenting violence 00:04:15.490 --> 00:04:17.290 between government and rebel forces. 00:04:17.290 --> 00:04:19.980 Saying both sides have "chosen the path of war," 00:04:19.980 --> 00:04:22.160 a top U.N. peacekeeping official 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:25.110 said the last of the remaining monitors inside Syria 00:04:25.110 --> 00:04:26.740 will pull out by a week from today. 00:04:26.740 --> 00:04:27.990 The United Nations, meanwhile, 00:04:27.990 --> 00:04:31.380 has confirmed veteran Algerian diplomat Lakhdar Brahimi 00:04:31.380 --> 00:04:33.450 will take over as international mediator, 00:04:33.450 --> 00:04:36.730 replacing Kofi Annan, who resigned two weeks ago. 00:04:36.730 --> 00:04:38.990 On Thursday, U.N. humanitarian chief 00:04:38.990 --> 00:04:42.000 Valerie Amos said up to 2.5 million people 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:44.830 affected by the Syrian conflict are in need of aid. 00:04:44.830 --> 00:04:47.970 Valerie Amos: "Over a million people have been uprooted 00:04:47.970 --> 00:04:49.680 and face destitution. 00:04:50.610 --> 00:04:53.470 Perhaps a million more have urgent humanitarian needs 00:04:53.470 --> 00:04:56.540 due to the widening impact of the crisis on the economy 00:04:57.060 --> 00:04:58.820 and on people’s livelihoods. 00:04:58.820 --> 00:05:02.320 Back in March, we estimated that a million people 00:05:02.320 --> 00:05:04.060 were in need of help. 00:05:04.060 --> 00:05:08.580 Now as many as 2.5 million are in need of assistance, 00:05:08.580 --> 00:05:10.630 and we are working to update our plans 00:05:10.630 --> 00:05:12.300 and our funding requirements." 00:05:12.300 --> 00:05:14.770 Syria’s opposition received a boost on Thursday 00:05:14.770 --> 00:05:17.120 with unconfirmed reports the brother of Syrian 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:19.610 President Bashar al-Assad, Maher Assad, 00:05:19.610 --> 00:05:22.530 had lost a leg in the bombing of a key regime 00:05:22.530 --> 00:05:26.170 meeting in Damascus last month. Speaking in neighboring Turkey, 00:05:26.170 --> 00:05:27.810 a spokesperson for the opposition 00:05:27.810 --> 00:05:30.790 Syrian National Council urged international support 00:05:30.790 --> 00:05:32.950 for a no-fly zone over Syria. 00:05:33.590 --> 00:05:39.200 Anas Abda: "We need certain measures, effective, 00:05:40.370 --> 00:05:42.070 and we need it now. 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:45.520 This is a message to the whole world, 00:05:46.850 --> 00:05:49.200 not only to the friends of Syria, to the whole world. 00:05:49.200 --> 00:05:52.850 And we also expect from the Arab countries 00:05:53.440 --> 00:05:57.660 and from the friends of Syria to take the lead in this 00:05:57.660 --> 00:05:59.570 and to help stop bloodshed 00:06:00.250 --> 00:06:05.080 and to establish a safe haven and a no-fly zone immediately." 00:06:05.590 --> 00:06:08.770 Police in South Africa opened fire on a miners’ 00:06:08.770 --> 00:06:10.650 strike near Johannesburg on Thursday, 00:06:10.650 --> 00:06:12.970 killing at least 30 people. 00:06:12.970 --> 00:06:15.370 Government officials say the police began 00:06:15.370 --> 00:06:17.000 shooting after workers 00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:20.550 armed with machetes ignored orders to disperse. 00:06:20.550 --> 00:06:23.430 The killings followed more than a week of clashes 00:06:23.430 --> 00:06:26.550 at the Marikana platinum mine. 00:06:26.550 --> 00:06:28.030 South Africa’s Association 00:06:28.030 --> 00:06:29.860 of Mineworkers and Construction Union, 00:06:29.860 --> 00:06:31.800 which represents most of the strikers, 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:34.360 has accused the police of committing a massacre. 00:06:34.360 --> 00:06:36.860 It was one of the worst mass killings in South Africa 00:06:36.860 --> 00:06:38.850 since the end of apartheid. 00:06:38.850 --> 00:06:41.720 The oil giant Shell is being accused of a new oil 00:06:41.720 --> 00:06:43.380 spill in southern Nigeria. 00:06:43.380 --> 00:06:46.260 The Nigerian NGO Environmental Rights Action 00:06:46.260 --> 00:06:48.070 says it has observed an "extensive" 00:06:48.070 --> 00:06:51.160 spill on the Brass River in the Niger Delta. 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:53.720 Shell has shut down an oil processing site 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:56.420 but denies claims of a large spill. 00:06:56.420 --> 00:06:59.000 The news comes days after Exxon Mobil 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:02.120 acknowledged a separate oil spill in the Delta. 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:03.830 A U.N. report one year ago 00:07:03.830 --> 00:07:07.010 said the region will already need 30 years 00:07:07.010 --> 00:07:08.890 and around $1 billion 00:07:08.890 --> 00:07:11.940 to at least partially recover from environmental damage 00:07:11.940 --> 00:07:15.630 caused by major oil companies over several decades. 00:07:16.370 --> 00:07:19.240 The State Department is calling on the kingdom of Bahrain 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:22.640 to vacate charges against a prominent human rights activist 00:07:22.640 --> 00:07:25.170 who has just been sentenced to three years in prison. 00:07:25.170 --> 00:07:26.420 Nabeel Rajab, 00:07:26.420 --> 00:07:29.420 the president of the Bahrain Center for Human Rights, 00:07:29.420 --> 00:07:32.220 was detained in June after criticizing 00:07:32.220 --> 00:07:35.830 the U.S.-backed Bahraini regime in Twitter messages 00:07:35.830 --> 00:07:40.040 and in media appearances, including one on Democracy Now! 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:42.360 recently. He was sentenced to three years this week 00:07:42.360 --> 00:07:43.880 in what Amnesty International 00:07:43.880 --> 00:07:47.520 called "the end of the facade of reform in Bahrain." 00:07:48.180 --> 00:07:49.790 Speaking to reporters on Thursday, 00:07:49.790 --> 00:07:52.200 State Department spokesperson Victoria Nuland 00:07:52.200 --> 00:07:55.090 initially declined to denounce Rajab’s sentence 00:07:55.090 --> 00:07:57.480 but soon called for the case to be dropped after 00:07:57.480 --> 00:07:59.180 further questioning. 00:08:04.820 --> 00:08:06.720 Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney 00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:09.890 is claiming to have paid an effective tax rate of 00:08:09.890 --> 00:08:13.560 at least 13 percent over the past 10 years. 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:16.230 Romney made the claim on Thursday in response 00:08:16.230 --> 00:08:18.390 to long-running speculation 00:08:18.390 --> 00:08:22.170 fueled by his refusal to release his tax returns. 00:08:22.170 --> 00:08:23.770 Speaking in South Carolina, 00:08:23.770 --> 00:08:26.400 Romney said the focus on his finances 00:08:26.400 --> 00:08:27.810 is "small-minded." 00:08:27.810 --> 00:08:29.020 Mitt Romney: 00:08:29.020 --> 00:08:32.150 "I just have to say, given the challenges that America faces — 00:08:32.660 --> 00:08:37.930 23 million people out of work, Iran about to become nuclear, 00:08:39.470 --> 00:08:41.600 one out of six Americans in poverty — 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:43.820 the fascination with taxes I paid 00:08:43.820 --> 00:08:46.380 I find to be very small-minded 00:08:46.380 --> 00:08:48.479 compared to the broad issues that we face. 00:08:49.060 --> 00:08:51.250 But I did go back and look at my taxes, 00:08:51.250 --> 00:08:52.820 and over the past 10 years 00:08:52.820 --> 00:08:55.010 I never paid less than 13 percent. 00:08:55.010 --> 00:08:58.660 I think the most recent year is 13.6 or something like that. 00:08:58.660 --> 00:09:01.010 So, I’ve paid taxes every single year. 00:09:01.610 --> 00:09:05.000 Harry Reid’s charge is totally false. 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:06.290 I’m sure waiting for Harry 00:09:06.290 --> 00:09:09.330 to put up who it was that told him what he says they told him. 00:09:09.330 --> 00:09:11.420 I don’t believe it for a minute, by the way. 00:09:11.420 --> 00:09:14.170 But every year I’ve paid at least 13 percent, 00:09:14.170 --> 00:09:18.140 and if you add in addition the amount that goes to charity, 00:09:18.140 --> 00:09:20.710 why, the number gets well above 20 percent." 00:09:20.710 --> 00:09:23.900 The controversy over Romney’s taxes escalated recently 00:09:23.900 --> 00:09:25.240 when Senate Majority Leader 00:09:25.240 --> 00:09:28.100 Harry Reid claimed without providing evidence 00:09:28.100 --> 00:09:32.150 that Romney had avoided paying taxes entirely in some years. 00:09:32.150 --> 00:09:34.310 Romney has denied Reid’s claims 00:09:34.310 --> 00:09:37.630 but has maintained his refusal to release his returns. 00:09:38.230 --> 00:09:41.020 A new study says 26 major corporations 00:09:41.020 --> 00:09:43.380 paid their top executives more money last year 00:09:43.380 --> 00:09:45.410 than they paid in federal taxes. 00:09:45.410 --> 00:09:46.950 According to the Institute for Policy 00:09:46.950 --> 00:09:50.850 Studies, companies including AT&T, Boeing and Citigroup 00:09:50.850 --> 00:09:54.180 paid their CEOs an average of $20.4 million, 00:09:54.710 --> 00:09:57.900 while paying little or no tax to the federal government. 00:09:58.590 --> 00:10:03.790 New figures show July marked the 329th consecutive month 00:10:03.790 --> 00:10:07.320 with a global temperature above the 20th century average. 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:09.620 It was also the 36th consecutive 00:10:09.620 --> 00:10:11.710 July with an above-average temperature, 00:10:12.300 --> 00:10:16.440 a streak dating back to 1976. In the United States, 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:18.240 the National Oceanic and Atmospheric 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:20.360 Administration recently disclosed July 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:22.760 was the hottest month on record. 00:10:23.920 --> 00:10:26.710 The city of Dallas has declared a state of emergency 00:10:26.710 --> 00:10:29.630 and authorized the spraying of pesticides to control 00:10:29.630 --> 00:10:32.930 a record outbreak of the West Nile virus. 00:10:32.930 --> 00:10:36.960 Nearly 200 cases of West Nile have been reported in Dallas, 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:39.890 leading to at least 10 deaths in the surrounding county 00:10:39.890 --> 00:10:41.930 and 17 statewide. 00:10:41.930 --> 00:10:45.380 In response, Dallas has begun spraying an aerial pesticide 00:10:45.380 --> 00:10:48.660 for the first time since 1966. 00:10:49.180 --> 00:10:52.660 Nine people have filed suit against the oil giant Chevron 00:10:52.660 --> 00:10:55.530 over a massive fire at the company’s oil refinery 00:10:55.530 --> 00:10:57.740 in Richmond, California, last week. 00:10:57.740 --> 00:11:01.490 Tens of thousands of area residents were ordered to stay 00:11:01.490 --> 00:11:03.750 in their homes with the windows and doors 00:11:03.750 --> 00:11:07.880 closed after a series of blasts sparked blazing fires 00:11:07.880 --> 00:11:10.510 that sent huge plumes of smoke. 00:11:10.510 --> 00:11:12.330 Hundreds sought medical treatment 00:11:12.330 --> 00:11:13.890 for respiratory issues. 00:11:13.890 --> 00:11:16.550 The lawsuit accuses Chevron of negligence 00:11:16.550 --> 00:11:20.980 in its operating of the refinery and in its emergency response. 00:11:20.980 --> 00:11:22.960 And those are some of the headlines this is Democracy 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:25.540 Now, Democracynow.org, the War and Peace Report. 00:11:25.540 --> 00:11:27.240 I’m Amy Goodman. 00:11:32.440 --> 00:11:34.450 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: We begin today’s show on the latest on 00:11:34.450 --> 00:11:36.800 WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange. 00:11:36.800 --> 00:11:39.110 Britain is refusing to give Assange safe passage 00:11:39.110 --> 00:11:40.380 out of the country 00:11:40.380 --> 00:11:43.030 even though Ecuador has granted him political asylum. 00:11:43.620 --> 00:11:46.930 Assange remains inside the Ecuadorean embassy in London, 00:11:46.930 --> 00:11:48.760 where he has stayed for almost two months 00:11:48.760 --> 00:11:51.850 in an attempt to avoid extradition to Sweden 00:11:51.850 --> 00:11:55.130 for questioning over sex crime accusations. 00:11:55.130 --> 00:11:57.660 Assange’s lawyers say he fears Sweden will extradite him 00:11:57.660 --> 00:11:59.610 to the United States to face charges 00:11:59.610 --> 00:12:03.040 over the leaking of secret U.S. military and diplomatic files. 00:12:03.040 --> 00:12:05.940 On Thursday, British Foreign Secretary William Hague 00:12:05.940 --> 00:12:08.790 said Assange would be arrested if he left the embassy. 00:12:09.540 --> 00:12:11.840 WILLIAM HAGUE: We are disappointed by the statement 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:13.500 by Ecuador’s foreign minister today 00:12:13.500 --> 00:12:16.110 that Ecuador has offered political asylum 00:12:16.110 --> 00:12:19.120 to Julian Assange. Under our law, 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:23.360 with Mr. Assange having exhausted all options of appeal, 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:26.440 the British authorities are under a binding obligation 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:28.190 to extradite him to Sweden. 00:12:28.990 --> 00:12:31.040 We must carry out that obligation, 00:12:31.040 --> 00:12:33.330 and of course we fully intend to do so. 00:12:33.990 --> 00:12:36.130 The Ecuadorean government’s decision this afternoon 00:12:36.130 --> 00:12:37.980 does not change that in any way, 00:12:38.630 --> 00:12:41.429 nor does it change the current circumstances in any way. 00:12:41.940 --> 00:12:44.810 We remain committed to a diplomatic solution 00:12:44.810 --> 00:12:47.960 that allows us to carry out our obligations 00:12:47.960 --> 00:12:50.280 as a nation under the Extradition Act. 00:12:51.030 --> 00:12:53.010 It’s important to understand that this is not about 00:12:53.010 --> 00:12:55.830 Mr. Assange’s activities at WikiLeaks 00:12:55.830 --> 00:12:58.720 or the attitude of the United States of America. 00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:02.190 He is wanted in Sweden to answer allegations 00:13:02.190 --> 00:13:04.350 of serious sexual offenses. 00:13:04.980 --> 00:13:07.380 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Britain has also threatened to raid the embassy 00:13:07.380 --> 00:13:08.890 in order to arrest Assange. 00:13:08.890 --> 00:13:11.540 A British foreign spokesperson said, quote, 00:13:11.540 --> 00:13:14.240 "Under British law we can give them a week’s notice 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:15.580 before entering the premises 00:13:15.580 --> 00:13:18.960 and the embassy will no longer have diplomatic protection." 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:21.770 The British threat was condemned by Ecuadorean officials 00:13:21.770 --> 00:13:23.420 as well as former diplomats. 00:13:23.420 --> 00:13:26.400 Sir Anthony Brenton, a former British ambassador to Russia, 00:13:26.400 --> 00:13:28.910 told the BBC that a British breach of diplomatic immunity 00:13:28.910 --> 00:13:30.250 would, quote, 00:13:30.250 --> 00:13:32.440 "make the world a very different place," 00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:35.130 with diplomats everywhere vulnerable to punitive action 00:13:35.130 --> 00:13:36.810 by host governments. 00:13:36.810 --> 00:13:39.260 Meanwhile, Ecuador has asked the Organization 00:13:39.260 --> 00:13:42.050 of American States to hold a meeting August 23rd 00:13:42.050 --> 00:13:44.400 to discuss the diplomatic crisis. 00:13:44.400 --> 00:13:46.560 Numerous supporters of Assange have gathered 00:13:46.560 --> 00:13:49.010 outside Ecuador’s embassy in recent days. 00:13:49.010 --> 00:13:50.440 This is Paul Madrid. 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:53.810 PAUL MADRID: [translated] We believe that the decision taken 00:13:53.810 --> 00:13:56.350 by the Ecuadorean government is the correct one. 00:13:56.350 --> 00:13:58.870 We Ecuadoreans abroad very much agree with this. 00:13:58.870 --> 00:14:00.810 We support the government’s decision, 00:14:00.810 --> 00:14:03.200 which is a decision taken on the basis of human rights 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:04.820 and international commissions 00:14:04.820 --> 00:14:06.570 that support this type of petition. 00:14:08.500 --> 00:14:10.060 AMY GOODMAN: To talk more about the significance 00:14:10.060 --> 00:14:11.280 of these developments, 00:14:11.280 --> 00:14:13.870 we are going to go first to Jennifer Robinson, 00:14:13.870 --> 00:14:16.990 London-based legal adviser for Julian Assange, 00:14:16.990 --> 00:14:19.780 also director of legal advocacy at the Bertha Foundation. 00:14:19.780 --> 00:14:22.500 We welcome you to Democracy Now!, Jennifer. 00:14:22.500 --> 00:14:25.510 The significance of the Ecuadorean government 00:14:25.510 --> 00:14:28.820 granting political asylum to Julian Assange, 00:14:28.820 --> 00:14:32.370 WikiLeaks founder, and then, what Britain is threatening now? 00:14:33.760 --> 00:14:35.030 JENNIFER ROBINSON: This is obviously 00:14:35.030 --> 00:14:37.140 a hugely important decision by Ecuador 00:14:37.140 --> 00:14:39.190 and one that we both welcome and respect, 00:14:39.190 --> 00:14:41.410 in light of the recent pressure that’s been brought to bear 00:14:41.410 --> 00:14:43.820 on them by the British government. 00:14:43.820 --> 00:14:46.460 It is an important recognition of international law 00:14:46.460 --> 00:14:50.550 and important recognition of the persecution that Julian faces, 00:14:50.550 --> 00:14:53.170 and in particular the concerns that we’ve long had about 00:14:53.170 --> 00:14:54.900 his—the risk of his extradition 00:14:54.900 --> 00:14:56.700 to the United States and prosecution 00:14:56.700 --> 00:14:59.720 associated with his activities to do with WikiLeaks. 00:15:00.520 --> 00:15:03.810 The latest announcements by the British government are alarming, 00:15:03.810 --> 00:15:06.030 I think, for diplomats around the world in relation 00:15:06.030 --> 00:15:08.340 to their threat about entering the embassy. 00:15:08.340 --> 00:15:12.010 This raises significant concerns about the institution of asylum, 00:15:12.010 --> 00:15:14.620 and about diplomatic protection, more generally. 00:15:14.620 --> 00:15:16.680 As international law academics and experts 00:15:16.680 --> 00:15:18.580 have been saying in the past 24 hours, 00:15:18.580 --> 00:15:21.200 it would be illegal as a matter of international law 00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:23.710 to enter an embassy. They are inviolable. 00:15:23.710 --> 00:15:26.059 And unless and until they withdraw that status, 00:15:26.580 --> 00:15:29.170 the British government cannot enter the embassy. 00:15:29.170 --> 00:15:31.500 If they do decide to withdraw that status, 00:15:31.500 --> 00:15:34.240 this actually would be, I think, a watershed in international law 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:36.910 and cause significant problems around the world. 00:15:36.910 --> 00:15:38.190 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Jennifer Robinson, 00:15:38.190 --> 00:15:41.910 what about this 1987 law that the British government 00:15:41.910 --> 00:15:45.460 is claiming would be able—they could justify 00:15:46.040 --> 00:15:48.840 removing the diplomatic protection of the embassy? 00:15:50.220 --> 00:15:51.760 JENNIFER ROBINSON: As I stated, at present, 00:15:51.760 --> 00:15:53.700 Ecuador has diplomatic status. 00:15:53.700 --> 00:15:56.740 If the U.K. government were to revoke that status, 00:15:56.740 --> 00:15:59.230 it would be a watershed in international law. 00:15:59.230 --> 00:16:01.680 Irrespective of whether it’s permitted under British law, 00:16:01.680 --> 00:16:05.280 it would be a—it would be a significant step 00:16:05.280 --> 00:16:07.240 by the British government and one that I think, 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:09.050 as international law academics have said, 00:16:09.050 --> 00:16:11.599 would put at risk the diplomats all over the world. 00:16:13.500 --> 00:16:15.850 AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about a comparison 00:16:15.850 --> 00:16:18.140 to how the British government dealt with, 00:16:18.140 --> 00:16:21.740 for example, Augusto Pinochet, the Chilean dictator? 00:16:21.740 --> 00:16:26.040 Interestingly, Baltasar Garzón is a lawyer for Julian Assange, 00:16:26.040 --> 00:16:27.280 the WikiLeaks founder, 00:16:27.280 --> 00:16:31.610 the crusading Spanish judge and prosecutor who called 00:16:31.610 --> 00:16:34.960 for the extradition of Augusto Pinochet from Britain, 00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:38.300 where he was there for a medical visit, to Spain. 00:16:38.300 --> 00:16:41.140 He ultimately had to stay in Britain for a year, 00:16:41.140 --> 00:16:45.690 but then Britain had him—allowed him to go back to Chile. 00:16:48.340 --> 00:16:50.850 JENNIFER ROBINSON: I think that there are limited comparisons 00:16:50.850 --> 00:16:52.950 to be made between those two cases. 00:16:52.950 --> 00:16:55.950 Of course, Garzón is the leader of our legal defense team, 00:16:55.950 --> 00:16:58.990 and he has—he has reiterated the same points that I’ve made 00:16:58.990 --> 00:17:01.980 about the importance of this decision to grant asylum. 00:17:01.980 --> 00:17:03.670 But the cases, I think, are very different, 00:17:03.670 --> 00:17:04.960 and they’re just—it’s difficult 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:06.830 to make any connection between them. 00:17:06.830 --> 00:17:08.500 AMY GOODMAN: And this threat of a raid, 00:17:08.500 --> 00:17:10.760 what exactly would it mean? 00:17:10.760 --> 00:17:14.390 British soldiers or police moving into the embassy 00:17:14.390 --> 00:17:16.380 and extracting Julian Assange? 00:17:17.740 --> 00:17:19.550 JENNIFER ROBINSON: It’s unclear what exactly it would mean. 00:17:19.550 --> 00:17:22.290 I mean, this is an—it would be an unprecedented action 00:17:22.290 --> 00:17:24.840 if the U.K. were to take that action. 00:17:24.840 --> 00:17:27.780 I suspect that if they were to withdraw the status 00:17:27.780 --> 00:17:29.600 of the British embassy, this would be a huge step 00:17:29.600 --> 00:17:31.290 and one that I know in recent days 00:17:31.290 --> 00:17:33.040 the British government has distanced themselves 00:17:33.040 --> 00:17:34.790 from that initial statement. 00:17:34.790 --> 00:17:36.850 If it were to happen, they would first have to withdraw 00:17:36.850 --> 00:17:38.230 the diplomatic status of Ecuador, 00:17:38.230 --> 00:17:40.350 which would again be a huge step. 00:17:40.350 --> 00:17:42.280 And after that, police—police officers 00:17:42.280 --> 00:17:43.700 would be able to get into the embassy 00:17:43.700 --> 00:17:47.970 and take Julian under arrest. But at this stage 00:17:47.970 --> 00:17:49.170 [inaudible] — 00:17:49.170 --> 00:17:51.170 AMY GOODMAN: We’re losing you a little bit, Jennifer. 00:17:52.310 --> 00:17:53.570 JENNIFER ROBINSON: At this stage, 00:17:53.570 --> 00:17:56.520 the British government has taken a massive step back 00:17:56.520 --> 00:17:58.920 from that initial threat to enter the embassy. 00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:01.170 As I said earlier, they would have to withdraw the status 00:18:01.170 --> 00:18:02.710 of the Ecuadorean embassy in England 00:18:02.710 --> 00:18:04.380 before they were able to do so. 00:18:04.380 --> 00:18:06.910 And that, in and of itself, would be a huge step. 00:18:06.910 --> 00:18:08.460 I don’t think that that’s going to happen, 00:18:08.460 --> 00:18:11.660 and it looks like we’re going to be facing a long standoff. 00:18:11.660 --> 00:18:13.250 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Jennifer Robinson, 00:18:13.250 --> 00:18:15.760 the—Ecuador’s foreign minister 00:18:15.760 --> 00:18:21.460 has said that his country sought assurances from Sweden 00:18:21.460 --> 00:18:23.560 and the United States that Assange 00:18:23.560 --> 00:18:26.190 would not be extradited from Sweden 00:18:26.190 --> 00:18:28.760 to the United States, before making a decision, 00:18:28.760 --> 00:18:32.110 and they were not giving such assurances. 00:18:32.110 --> 00:18:35.280 That seems to buttress the fear of Assange 00:18:35.280 --> 00:18:37.690 that the real effort here 00:18:37.690 --> 00:18:41.010 is to get him into U.S. custody via Sweden. 00:18:41.560 --> 00:18:44.740 Your response to that announcement 00:18:44.740 --> 00:18:46.640 by the foreign minister of Ecuador, 00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:48.210 that he could not get those assurances 00:18:48.210 --> 00:18:50.210 from the United States? 00:18:50.210 --> 00:18:52.070 JENNIFER ROBINSON: I think this is a very important point 00:18:52.070 --> 00:18:54.120 and one that ought to be emphasized, that Ecuador, 00:18:54.120 --> 00:18:56.420 in considering its international obligations 00:18:56.420 --> 00:18:58.000 in whether to grant Julian asylum, 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:00.900 first sought the assurances that we had been asking 00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:02.890 our Australian government to ask on his behalf 00:19:02.890 --> 00:19:04.920 and who had also refused to request. 00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:08.030 So Ecuador took every step it possibly could, 00:19:08.030 --> 00:19:09.680 before taking this decision, 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:11.400 to seek the assurances it required 00:19:12.230 --> 00:19:15.560 to assuage concerns about onward extradition to the U.S. 00:19:16.090 --> 00:19:18.520 It is worth emphasizing that this grant of asylum 00:19:18.520 --> 00:19:21.010 is with respect to the risk of onward extradition 00:19:21.010 --> 00:19:22.330 to the United States, 00:19:22.330 --> 00:19:24.380 and Sweden and the United Kingdom 00:19:24.380 --> 00:19:26.660 both refused to provide assurances 00:19:26.660 --> 00:19:28.780 that once matters were dealt with in Sweden, 00:19:28.780 --> 00:19:31.240 that Julian would be permitted to leave the country 00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:33.540 and would not be extradited to the United States. 00:19:33.540 --> 00:19:36.020 They refused to provide those assurances. 00:19:36.020 --> 00:19:38.350 As he—he has always been willing to cooperate 00:19:38.350 --> 00:19:39.680 with the Swedish allegations. 00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:41.800 Again, he has not been charged in Sweden yet. 00:19:41.800 --> 00:19:44.430 They simply want his testimony. And in the course 00:19:44.430 --> 00:19:46.140 of their consideration of his application, 00:19:46.140 --> 00:19:48.700 the Ecuadorean government also offered the Swedish authorities 00:19:48.700 --> 00:19:50.800 the opportunity to interview Julian in relation 00:19:50.800 --> 00:19:53.830 to the Swedish sexual offense charge—allegations, 00:19:53.830 --> 00:19:55.140 in the embassy, 00:19:55.140 --> 00:19:57.900 and they also refused that offer. 00:19:58.470 --> 00:20:01.920 So Ecuador actually did—did try to get the assurances 00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:03.810 that they would be required to allow Julian 00:20:03.810 --> 00:20:05.380 to answer those allegations in Sweden 00:20:05.380 --> 00:20:08.270 and to assuage fears about onward extradition to the U.S. 00:20:08.270 --> 00:20:10.110 They refused to give them, and as a result, 00:20:10.110 --> 00:20:11.690 Ecuador has granted asylum. 00:20:11.690 --> 00:20:13.770 AMY GOODMAN: After the announcement that Julian Assange 00:20:13.770 --> 00:20:16.010 had been granted political asylum in Ecuador, 00:20:16.010 --> 00:20:20.070 one of his lawyers in Sweden, Per Samuelsson, 00:20:20.070 --> 00:20:22.370 urged Swedish prosecutor Marianne Ny 00:20:22.370 --> 00:20:25.140 to travel to London to question Assange. 00:20:25.140 --> 00:20:28.250 PER SAMUELSSON: We can solve everything. 00:20:29.750 --> 00:20:33.150 The foundation for the arrest warrant 00:20:33.150 --> 00:20:35.180 was that they wanted an interrogation 00:20:35.180 --> 00:20:37.950 with Julian Assange in Sweden. 00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:41.490 Now it is no longer possible to have it in Sweden 00:20:41.490 --> 00:20:43.960 because he has been granted political asylum, 00:20:44.510 --> 00:20:46.210 but then we can do it in London. 00:20:46.770 --> 00:20:51.350 And that was—that is what we have been wanting all the time. 00:20:51.350 --> 00:20:54.660 And now I think it’s time for the prosecutor 00:20:54.660 --> 00:20:57.560 to change her mind and go along the line 00:20:57.560 --> 00:21:01.360 and do it quickly in London. Then everything will be solved. 00:21:01.360 --> 00:21:03.810 Then the foundation for the European arrest warrant 00:21:03.810 --> 00:21:05.010 will disappear, 00:21:05.010 --> 00:21:09.000 and Julian Assange can leave the embassy and go to Ecuador 00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:11.210 and seek protection from the United States. 00:21:11.210 --> 00:21:12.420 AMY GOODMAN: That’s Per Samuelsson, 00:21:12.420 --> 00:21:14.180 one of Julian Assange’s lawyers in Sweden. 00:21:14.180 --> 00:21:17.200 Jennifer Robinson, final comment on this 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:18.960 and how long Julian Assange 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:21.880 can remain in the Ecuadorean embassy in London? 00:21:22.700 --> 00:21:24.010 JENNIFER ROBINSON: First of all, 00:21:24.010 --> 00:21:26.060 I agree entirely with Per Samuelsson, 00:21:26.060 --> 00:21:28.900 our colleague in Sweden, that if the Swedish prosecutor 00:21:28.900 --> 00:21:30.490 were to go to London and interview him, 00:21:30.490 --> 00:21:32.830 this could all be over, and he could go to Ecuador 00:21:32.830 --> 00:21:34.850 to seek protection from the United States. 00:21:34.850 --> 00:21:37.440 We have been offering his testimony from the U.K. 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:39.960 as—from as early as October 2010. 00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:41.850 There was absolutely no need for this arrest warrant 00:21:41.850 --> 00:21:43.050 in the first place. 00:21:43.050 --> 00:21:44.860 It has kept him under house arrest in the U.K. 00:21:44.860 --> 00:21:46.940 for more than 18 months. 00:21:46.940 --> 00:21:49.760 And if they were—if they took the option 00:21:49.760 --> 00:21:51.600 to use the mutual legal assistance treaty 00:21:51.600 --> 00:21:52.950 that is available to them, 00:21:52.950 --> 00:21:54.750 we wouldn’t—we simply wouldn’t be in this position. 00:21:54.750 --> 00:21:57.590 And that’s the best possible outcome for everyone involved, 00:21:57.590 --> 00:22:00.689 including the women in Sweden who have made these allegations. 00:22:01.190 --> 00:22:03.870 As to the question about his—how long he could remain 00:22:03.870 --> 00:22:05.630 in the Ecuadorean embassy, 00:22:05.630 --> 00:22:07.960 we certainly wouldn’t like it to be an indefinite position. 00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:10.340 But, of course, Ecuador has granted protection, 00:22:10.340 --> 00:22:12.240 and unless and until the British government removes 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:14.680 the diplomatic status of the Ecuadorean embassy, 00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:16.400 Julian can remain in there indefinitely 00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:18.710 until he safe passage can be negotiated. 00:22:18.710 --> 00:22:20.290 Of course, we wouldn’t like to see that, 00:22:20.290 --> 00:22:21.800 and we think that the British government 00:22:21.800 --> 00:22:25.360 ought to give meaningful recognition of asylum rights 00:22:25.360 --> 00:22:27.260 by granting him safe passage. 00:22:27.260 --> 00:22:28.820 But unless and until that’s granted, 00:22:28.820 --> 00:22:31.350 he is subject to arrest when he walks outside the embassy. 00:22:31.350 --> 00:22:34.540 And at this stage, he is not willing to do that. 00:22:34.540 --> 00:22:35.750 AMY GOODMAN: Jennifer Robinson, 00:22:35.750 --> 00:22:37.230 I want to thank you for being with us, 00:22:37.230 --> 00:22:39.940 the London-based legal adviser for Julian Assange. 00:22:39.940 --> 00:22:41.230 This is Democracy Now! 00:22:41.230 --> 00:22:45.680 When we come back, we’ll speak with perhaps the United States’ 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:47.640 most famous whistleblower, Dan Ellsberg. 00:22:47.640 --> 00:24:39.920 Stay with us. 00:24:40.710 --> 00:24:41.920 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: For more on Julian Assange, 00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:43.450 we’re joined by Daniel Ellsberg, 00:24:43.450 --> 00:24:45.610 perhaps the country’s most famous whistleblower. 00:24:45.610 --> 00:24:47.810 He leaked the Pentagon Papers in 1971, 00:24:47.810 --> 00:24:50.580 the secret history of U.S. involvement in Vietnam. 00:24:50.580 --> 00:24:52.120 He joins us from Berkeley. 00:24:52.120 --> 00:24:53.820 Welcome to Democracy Now! 00:24:57.020 --> 00:25:00.810 Dan Ellsberg, your response to the latest developments 00:25:00.810 --> 00:25:04.050 of the decision of Ecuador to grant asylum? 00:25:06.130 --> 00:25:07.540 DANIEL ELLSBERG: Well, I congratulate Ecuador, 00:25:07.540 --> 00:25:11.150 of course, for standing up to the British Empire here, 00:25:11.150 --> 00:25:13.750 for insisting that they are not a British colony, 00:25:13.750 --> 00:25:16.110 and acting as a sovereign state ought to act. 00:25:16.110 --> 00:25:17.790 And I think they’ve done the right thing. 00:25:17.790 --> 00:25:19.490 I appreciate what they’ve done. 00:25:20.560 --> 00:25:23.770 AMY GOODMAN: And the British government first threatening 00:25:23.770 --> 00:25:27.470 to raid the Ecuadorean embassy in London, 00:25:28.450 --> 00:25:30.900 also saying they would arrest Julian Assange 00:25:30.900 --> 00:25:33.550 if he attempted to leave to go to Ecuador, 00:25:33.550 --> 00:25:36.730 but also saying they’d actually raid the embassy? 00:25:38.530 --> 00:25:40.840 DANIEL ELLSBERG: It’s an outrageous proposal, 00:25:40.840 --> 00:25:43.570 which actually undermines the security 00:25:43.570 --> 00:25:47.090 of every diplomat in the world, in this country right now. 00:25:47.090 --> 00:25:49.320 I would say it has a chilling effect right now, 00:25:49.320 --> 00:25:51.900 the very fact that that possibility has been raised. 00:25:51.900 --> 00:25:53.540 I’m old enough to remember the occasion 00:25:53.540 --> 00:25:54.860 that gave rise to that, actually. 00:25:54.860 --> 00:25:58.810 I remember when a Libyan official shot 00:25:58.810 --> 00:26:00.800 from the Libyan embassy in London 00:26:00.800 --> 00:26:04.480 and killed a British female officer—Vivian 00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:07.270 [Yvonne Joyce Fletcher], I think her name was—in 1984. 00:26:07.270 --> 00:26:10.710 The result of that was that they removed diplomatic recognition 00:26:10.710 --> 00:26:13.110 from Libya altogether, sent everybody home. 00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:15.590 They didn’t raid the embassy on that occasion, 00:26:15.590 --> 00:26:18.140 but that led three years later to a law that permitted them, 00:26:18.140 --> 00:26:21.880 under extraordinary circumstances, to do that again. 00:26:21.880 --> 00:26:24.800 They obviously don’t have anyone here who’s been shooting 00:26:24.800 --> 00:26:27.630 from the Ecuadorean embassy at anyone. 00:26:27.630 --> 00:26:29.600 He’s merely been telling the truth, 00:26:29.600 --> 00:26:31.430 there as in London earlier. 00:26:31.430 --> 00:26:34.060 He should be congratulated for that, not threatened. 00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:36.870 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Dan Ellsberg, again, 00:26:36.870 --> 00:26:40.520 the extraordinary efforts that are being taken here 00:26:40.520 --> 00:26:42.580 by the British government—and, obviously, 00:26:42.580 --> 00:26:44.860 the Swedish government—supposedly 00:26:44.860 --> 00:26:50.800 just to question him on allegations of a sexual attack, 00:26:50.800 --> 00:26:52.500 not even actual charges. 00:26:54.230 --> 00:26:55.480 DANIEL ELLSBERG: Well, everything that we’ve seen 00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:58.090 supports the position of his defense team, 00:26:58.090 --> 00:27:02.670 that this is not about sexual charges in Sweden, 00:27:02.670 --> 00:27:06.640 essentially, that that’s a cover story—whatever substance 00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:07.920 there may be to that story. 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:09.590 But the procedures that have been followed here 00:27:09.590 --> 00:27:10.870 are extraordinary: 00:27:10.870 --> 00:27:14.180 a red notice here, very unusually given, 00:27:14.180 --> 00:27:16.030 never under these circumstances, 00:27:16.030 --> 00:27:20.040 to arrest him and these heavy efforts to extradite him, 00:27:20.040 --> 00:27:24.140 after he had offered either to be questioned 00:27:24.140 --> 00:27:26.040 by the prosecutor herself 00:27:26.040 --> 00:27:29.160 or by some representative of her in the Swedish embassy 00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:32.930 or the British embassy or by British police in London, 00:27:32.930 --> 00:27:34.510 where he was, something that, by the way, 00:27:34.510 --> 00:27:36.280 is routinely done all the time, 00:27:36.280 --> 00:27:38.130 and the expense is paid for that, 00:27:38.130 --> 00:27:40.800 if necessary—all of that being refused. Why? 00:27:40.800 --> 00:27:45.310 In a situation where this man is charged with criminal charges 00:27:45.310 --> 00:27:47.700 by no country—not by Sweden, 00:27:47.700 --> 00:27:51.080 not by Britain, not by the United States, 00:27:51.080 --> 00:27:53.830 although there may in fact be a secret indictment 00:27:53.830 --> 00:27:56.190 already waiting for him in the United States, 00:27:56.190 --> 00:28:00.020 being denied or lied about right now by my country. 00:28:00.550 --> 00:28:02.849 But no charges have actually been made public. 00:28:03.450 --> 00:28:05.150 So, here, all this emphasis just to get him 00:28:05.150 --> 00:28:07.040 charged—just to get him questioned, 00:28:07.040 --> 00:28:09.580 rather, when he’s offered himself for questioning, 00:28:09.580 --> 00:28:11.810 even right now in the Ecuadorean embassy. 00:28:11.810 --> 00:28:15.110 The state of Ecuador has actually officially proposed 00:28:15.110 --> 00:28:18.410 that that take place in the Ecuadorean embassy 00:28:18.410 --> 00:28:22.360 or elsewhere and in London. And that has been refused. 00:28:22.360 --> 00:28:24.330 All of this supports the idea that this 00:28:24.330 --> 00:28:27.150 is merely a way of getting him to Sweden, 00:28:27.150 --> 00:28:30.130 which apparently would be easier to extradite him 00:28:30.130 --> 00:28:32.110 from to the United States than Britain. 00:28:32.780 --> 00:28:35.910 If Britain were totally open to extraditing him, 00:28:35.910 --> 00:28:38.640 it would have happened by now. Two years have passed. 00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:41.540 But he’s an Australian citizen, a member of the Commonwealth, 00:28:41.540 --> 00:28:44.040 and the criteria for extraditing somebody 00:28:44.040 --> 00:28:46.530 who’s been telling the truth and is wanted 00:28:46.530 --> 00:28:50.170 for what can only be a political crime in another country 00:28:50.170 --> 00:28:51.580 are apparently more stringent here 00:28:51.580 --> 00:28:53.660 than they might be in Sweden. 00:28:53.660 --> 00:28:56.070 So I think that—in fact, I join his lawyers, 00:28:56.070 --> 00:28:57.620 Michael Ratner and others, 00:28:57.620 --> 00:29:01.460 in saying that he has every reason to be wary 00:29:01.460 --> 00:29:05.770 that the real intent here is to whisk him away to America, 00:29:05.770 --> 00:29:07.330 where it really hasn’t been made 00:29:07.330 --> 00:29:09.640 as clear what might be waiting for him 00:29:09.640 --> 00:29:11.670 as I think one can conjecture. 00:29:11.670 --> 00:29:14.990 The new National Defense Authorization Act—and 00:29:14.990 --> 00:29:17.530 I’m a plaintiff in a suit 00:29:17.530 --> 00:29:19.310 to call that act unconstitutional, 00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:22.240 in terms of its effect on me and on others, 00:29:22.830 --> 00:29:25.060 a suit that has been successful so far 00:29:25.060 --> 00:29:26.340 at the district court level 00:29:26.340 --> 00:29:29.760 and has led to that act being called unconstitutional. 00:29:29.760 --> 00:29:30.980 But on its face, 00:29:30.980 --> 00:29:34.860 that act could be used against Julian Assange or Bradley 00:29:34.860 --> 00:29:38.040 Manning, if he weren’t already in military custody. 00:29:38.040 --> 00:29:39.670 Julian Assange, although a civilian, 00:29:39.670 --> 00:29:43.300 and not an American civilian at that, would seem to me, 00:29:43.300 --> 00:29:45.390 a layman, to be clearly subject 00:29:45.390 --> 00:29:47.190 to the National Defense Authorization Act, 00:29:47.190 --> 00:29:50.720 the NDAA, putting in military detention 00:29:50.720 --> 00:29:54.910 for suspicion of giving aid to an enemy, 00:29:54.910 --> 00:29:56.820 which he’s certainly been accused of 00:29:56.820 --> 00:29:58.620 by high American officials. 00:29:58.620 --> 00:30:02.170 I don’t see why he couldn’t be put in indefinite contention, 00:30:02.170 --> 00:30:06.120 without even the charges that I faced 40 years ago 00:30:06.120 --> 00:30:08.740 for doing the exact same things that he did. 00:30:09.840 --> 00:30:11.510 AMY GOODMAN: The record of President Obama 00:30:11.510 --> 00:30:12.790 on whistleblowers: 00:30:12.790 --> 00:30:15.920 six whistleblowers charged under the Obama administration, 00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:19.190 more than in all—under the administrations 00:30:19.190 --> 00:30:21.010 of all past presidents combined, Dan Ellsberg? 00:30:21.010 --> 00:30:22.250 DANIEL ELLSBERG: Twice as many. 00:30:22.250 --> 00:30:24.100 Twice as many as all past presidents. 00:30:24.890 --> 00:30:28.100 There was a total of three under past presidents, one each. 00:30:28.100 --> 00:30:31.400 I was the first ever charged with those charges. 00:30:31.400 --> 00:30:33.940 Obama has brought six such charges. 00:30:33.940 --> 00:30:36.800 And apparently his grand jury in Virginia 00:30:36.800 --> 00:30:38.680 is seeking at least a seventh, 00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:41.050 and perhaps more, against Assange and others. 00:30:42.020 --> 00:30:43.650 Twice as many as all previous. 00:30:43.650 --> 00:30:44.930 AMY GOODMAN: You were charged? 00:30:44.930 --> 00:30:47.990 You were indicted for having secret documents 00:30:47.990 --> 00:30:49.650 and giving them away? 00:30:49.650 --> 00:30:50.870 DANIEL ELLSBERG: For possessing them 00:30:50.870 --> 00:30:53.300 and for possessing them without authorization. 00:30:53.300 --> 00:30:55.890 There was a second grand jury going on that would have 00:30:55.890 --> 00:30:58.620 gotten me in a second trial for distribution, 00:30:58.620 --> 00:31:00.730 which of course I was also involved in. 00:31:00.730 --> 00:31:03.040 I didn’t contest any of the facts. 00:31:03.040 --> 00:31:05.330 And would—that would probably, for the first time, 00:31:05.330 --> 00:31:06.760 have brought in newspaper people, 00:31:06.760 --> 00:31:09.380 like Neil Sheehan and Hendrick Smith. 00:31:09.380 --> 00:31:12.730 That was quashed after government criminality 00:31:12.730 --> 00:31:14.300 led to the ending of my trial, 00:31:14.300 --> 00:31:16.570 and so they dropped the other grand jury. 00:31:16.570 --> 00:31:19.340 As a result, we have no prior precedent 00:31:19.340 --> 00:31:22.790 of a newspaper person being tried under that charge. 00:31:22.790 --> 00:31:24.540 I was a former official. 00:31:24.540 --> 00:31:28.260 Julian Assange would be the first, again, charged. 00:31:28.260 --> 00:31:30.820 No newspaper person has been so charged. 00:31:31.350 --> 00:31:32.590 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Dan Ellsberg, 00:31:32.590 --> 00:31:37.540 the impact already of this hounding of Assange 00:31:37.540 --> 00:31:38.850 by the Swedish, 00:31:38.850 --> 00:31:43.350 and clearly with the United States government in the wings, 00:31:43.350 --> 00:31:44.620 behind the scenes, 00:31:44.620 --> 00:31:48.550 orchestrating a lot of this—the impact on WikiLeaks 00:31:48.550 --> 00:31:53.080 and on other whistleblowers? The message that’s being sent, 00:31:53.080 --> 00:31:55.490 that if you dare to go against the empire, 00:31:56.060 --> 00:31:59.060 you will be hounded and gone after? 00:32:00.830 --> 00:32:02.300 DANIEL ELLSBERG: That’s hardly an amazing message. 00:32:02.300 --> 00:32:04.000 It was, of course, to be expected. 00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:07.590 There was reason to think that an international organization 00:32:07.590 --> 00:32:11.150 with no national roots here, and using the internet, 00:32:11.150 --> 00:32:14.890 would escape that kind of chilling effect. 00:32:14.890 --> 00:32:20.300 And they found the empire here is more resourceful and creative 00:32:20.300 --> 00:32:23.480 and less mindful of its own constitution 00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:26.140 and laws and traditions than one might have hoped. 00:32:26.970 --> 00:32:28.840 But, anyway, it’s hardly surprising 00:32:28.840 --> 00:32:31.810 that when you twist the lion’s tail, 00:32:31.810 --> 00:32:34.400 the lion may get very angry. 00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:38.870 Their ability to shut off the funding by intimidating, 00:32:38.870 --> 00:32:43.710 without even invoking the law, places like PayPal and Amazon 00:32:43.710 --> 00:32:46.940 and others from giving any money 00:32:46.940 --> 00:32:52.020 to or serving as distribution channels is very dismaying. 00:32:52.020 --> 00:32:54.110 It’s a sign, and not unique, 00:32:54.110 --> 00:32:56.060 of the way in which our fundamental rights, 00:32:56.060 --> 00:32:58.580 our Bill of Rights, our constitutional freedoms, 00:32:58.580 --> 00:33:01.780 have been abridged by the last 10 years and more. 00:33:01.780 --> 00:33:03.580 And President Obama is, unhappily, 00:33:03.580 --> 00:33:05.150 following in that tradition, 00:33:05.150 --> 00:33:08.510 as, I must say, I predicted, unhappily, 00:33:08.510 --> 00:33:11.310 when I urged people to vote for him four years ago. 00:33:11.310 --> 00:33:12.520 AMY GOODMAN: Finally— 00:33:12.520 --> 00:33:14.080 DANIEL ELLSBERG: And I’ll predict people—I’ll predict 00:33:14.080 --> 00:33:15.500 it unhappily when I vote 00:33:15.500 --> 00:33:17.500 for people—when I urge people in Florida 00:33:17.500 --> 00:33:20.350 and swing states to vote for him next time, 00:33:20.350 --> 00:33:23.270 not in the expectation that he will act like a president 00:33:23.270 --> 00:33:24.610 rather than a king. 00:33:24.610 --> 00:33:28.270 We have currently now, and have had for some years, 00:33:28.270 --> 00:33:31.190 the choice between two candidates for monarchy 00:33:31.190 --> 00:33:32.870 four years apart. 00:33:32.870 --> 00:33:34.740 AMY GOODMAN: Julian Assange’s statement 00:33:34.740 --> 00:33:36.430 after the Ecuadorean government 00:33:36.430 --> 00:33:39.510 granted him political asylum, he said, 00:33:39.510 --> 00:33:41.290 "I’m grateful to the Ecuadorean people, 00:33:41.290 --> 00:33:43.160 President Rafael Correa and his government. 00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:45.750 It was not Britain or my home country, Australia, 00:33:45.750 --> 00:33:48.450 that stood up to protect me from persecution, 00:33:48.450 --> 00:33:51.500 but a courageous, independent Latin American nation. 00:33:51.500 --> 00:33:53.460 While today is a historic victory, 00:33:53.460 --> 00:33:55.060 our struggles have just begun. 00:33:55.060 --> 00:33:57.570 The unprecedented U.S. investigation against 00:33:57.570 --> 00:33:59.560 WikiLeaks must be stopped." 00:33:59.560 --> 00:34:02.540 And Assange went on to say, "While today much of the focus 00:34:02.540 --> 00:34:05.260 will be on the decision of the Ecuadorean government, 00:34:05.260 --> 00:34:07.610 it is just as important that we remember Bradley 00:34:07.610 --> 00:34:11.820 Manning has been detained without trial for over 800 days. 00:34:11.820 --> 00:34:13.950 The task of protecting WikiLeaks, 00:34:13.950 --> 00:34:18.430 its staff, its supporters and its alleged sources continue." 00:34:18.430 --> 00:34:21.470 That from Julian Assange’s statement yesterday. 00:34:21.470 --> 00:34:22.690 Final comment, Dan Ellsberg? 00:34:22.690 --> 00:34:26.170 DANIEL ELLSBERG: Absolutely. There’s no reason to believe 00:34:26.170 --> 00:34:28.340 that he would get what in past years, 00:34:28.340 --> 00:34:30.510 including my time when I was prosecuted, 00:34:30.510 --> 00:34:32.100 would pass for a fair trial 00:34:32.100 --> 00:34:33.640 or for fair treatment in this country. 00:34:33.640 --> 00:34:36.520 I’m sorry to say that there’s been something like a coup 00:34:36.520 --> 00:34:37.910 some 10 years ago, 00:34:37.910 --> 00:34:40.780 an executive coup against our Constitution 00:34:40.780 --> 00:34:42.950 and against the separation of government. 00:34:42.950 --> 00:34:46.150 It’s outrageous that Bradley Manning’s trial 00:34:46.150 --> 00:34:49.650 has again been postponed by the action of the government 00:34:49.650 --> 00:34:50.880 'til next spring. 00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:52.290 He will have spent—he's already spent 00:34:52.290 --> 00:34:54.190 more than 800 days in confinement, 00:34:54.710 --> 00:34:56.760 10 months of it and more in conditions 00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:59.720 that Amnesty International called torture. 00:34:59.720 --> 00:35:02.110 The idea that President Obama ended torture 00:35:02.110 --> 00:35:03.340 is simply not true. 00:35:03.340 --> 00:35:05.510 He didn’t end it even in this country, 00:35:05.510 --> 00:35:09.700 in terms of isolated commitment, incommunicado, basically, 00:35:10.580 --> 00:35:14.210 and conditions of nudity, in some cases, 00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:16.360 intended to humiliate him—all 00:35:16.360 --> 00:35:19.650 intended to press him to cop a plea 00:35:19.650 --> 00:35:22.070 and reduce his sentence from the life sentence 00:35:22.070 --> 00:35:25.290 they’re asking to a much lower sentence, 00:35:25.290 --> 00:35:28.390 if he will only implicate Julian Assange in ways 00:35:28.390 --> 00:35:31.160 that would allow them to bring a trial 00:35:31.710 --> 00:35:33.950 without great embarrassment. 00:35:33.950 --> 00:35:36.030 Now, let me enlarge on that for a moment. 00:35:36.030 --> 00:35:37.430 They don’t have to extradite anyone 00:35:37.430 --> 00:35:39.390 to bring someone under these charges under the 00:35:39.390 --> 00:35:41.380 WikiLeaks disclosures. 00:35:41.380 --> 00:35:44.400 Everything Julian Assange could possibly be charged 00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:49.440 with under our law was committed as an act by Bill Keller, 00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:51.550 the president—sorry, 00:35:51.550 --> 00:35:54.090 the managing editor of—the executive editor 00:35:54.090 --> 00:35:55.440 of the New York Times. 00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:57.860 I don’t mean the New York Times should be indicted 00:35:57.860 --> 00:35:59.360 or that Keller should be indicted. 00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:02.210 That would be an outrage, just as it is an outrage 00:36:02.210 --> 00:36:04.320 to think of indicting Julian Assange 00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:06.270 for exactly the same thing. 00:36:06.270 --> 00:36:09.090 But meanwhile, Bradley Manning is facing charges 00:36:09.090 --> 00:36:10.930 that he aided the enemy, 00:36:10.930 --> 00:36:13.730 absurd charges that amount virtually to treason. 00:36:14.330 --> 00:36:18.540 And many people have even called for execution of either of them. 00:36:18.540 --> 00:36:21.680 Well, obviously, the same charges then could lead 00:36:21.680 --> 00:36:25.890 to Julian Assange being tried under the NDAA, 00:36:25.890 --> 00:36:28.060 the National Defense Authorization Act, 00:36:28.060 --> 00:36:30.800 which has just been found unconstitutional 00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:33.290 by a courageous and right-thinking judge 00:36:34.350 --> 00:36:37.110 in the first—in the district of Manhattan— 00:36:37.110 --> 00:36:38.530 AMY GOODMAN: Dan Ellsberg, we want to thank— 00:36:38.530 --> 00:36:39.790 DANIEL ELLSBERG: —right now, which has been—found 00:36:39.790 --> 00:36:41.320 that act unconstitutional. 00:36:41.320 --> 00:36:43.270 That’s the act under which I was tried. 00:36:43.880 --> 00:36:45.570 I wish I had had the chance to go 00:36:45.570 --> 00:36:47.320 for an injunction under that charge. 00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:48.670 She’s obviously right. 00:36:48.670 --> 00:36:49.890 AMY GOODMAN: Dan Ellsberg, 00:36:49.890 --> 00:36:51.160 thanks so much for being with us, 00:36:51.160 --> 00:36:53.440 perhaps the country’s most famous whistleblower. 00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:56.130 He leaked the Pentagon Papers in 1971, 00:36:56.130 --> 00:36:58.490 the secret history of U.S. involvement in Vietnam, 00:36:58.490 --> 00:37:01.620 joining us from University of California, Berkeley. 00:37:01.620 --> 00:37:04.050 AMY GOODMAN: We turn now to our next segment. 00:37:04.050 --> 00:37:07.800 It’s the issue of voting rights in Pennsylvania. 00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:09.000 Juan? 00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:10.530 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, with the presidential election 00:37:10.530 --> 00:37:12.290 less than three months away, voting rights issues 00:37:12.290 --> 00:37:15.260 are heating up in numerous battleground states. 00:37:15.260 --> 00:37:17.150 On Wednesday, a Pennsylvania judge upheld 00:37:17.150 --> 00:37:19.260 a controversial voter ID law that critics say 00:37:19.260 --> 00:37:20.960 could disqualify hundreds of thousands of voters. 00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:22.340 The measure requires voters to produce 00:37:22.340 --> 00:37:23.630 will benefit Republicans this November. 00:37:23.630 --> 00:37:25.490 The measure requires voters to produce photo ID 00:37:25.490 --> 00:37:27.480 before they can cast ballots. 00:37:27.480 --> 00:37:30.160 Opponents of the law had sought to delay its implementation 00:37:30.160 --> 00:37:32.040 until after the November 6 elections. 00:37:32.040 --> 00:37:34.460 The American Civil Liberties Union and other groups 00:37:34.460 --> 00:37:37.140 say they will appeal to the state Supreme Court. 00:37:37.140 --> 00:37:40.200 But Pennsylvania House Majority Leader Mike Turzai, 00:37:40.200 --> 00:37:42.710 a Republican, praised the judge’s decision, 00:37:42.710 --> 00:37:45.010 saying it confirmed the integrity of each 00:37:45.010 --> 00:37:46.670 and every valid vote. 00:37:46.670 --> 00:37:49.890 Earlier this year, Turzai predicted the voter ID law 00:37:49.890 --> 00:37:52.030 would help Mitt Romney win the state. 00:37:53.310 --> 00:37:54.530 STATE REP. MIKE TURZAI: Voter ID, 00:37:54.530 --> 00:37:56.160 which is going to allow Governor Romney 00:37:56.160 --> 00:37:58.310 to win the state of Pennsylvania: Done. 00:38:00.520 --> 00:38:03.070 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: In his ruling, presiding Judge Robert Simpson 00:38:03.070 --> 00:38:04.460 wrote that the law, quote, 00:38:04.460 --> 00:38:06.980 "does not expressly disenfranchise or burden 00:38:06.980 --> 00:38:09.640 any qualified elector or group of electors. 00:38:09.640 --> 00:38:12.300 The statute simply gives poll workers another tool 00:38:12.300 --> 00:38:15.800 to verify that the person voting is who they claim to be." 00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:18.440 But critics of the law say it will suppress voter turnout 00:38:18.440 --> 00:38:19.750 among people of color, 00:38:19.750 --> 00:38:22.730 the poor and elderly, who may lack the proper ID 00:38:22.730 --> 00:38:24.850 and find it harder to obtain one. 00:38:24.850 --> 00:38:27.950 A new analysis by News 21 shows 00:38:27.950 --> 00:38:30.920 that the rate of voter fraud is infinitesimal 00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:33.800 and in-person voter impersonation on Election Day 00:38:33.800 --> 00:38:35.240 is virtually nonexistent. 00:38:35.240 --> 00:38:37.210 AMY GOODMAN: For more on voting rights, we go to Washington, 00:38:37.210 --> 00:38:39.930 D.C., where we’re joined by Nicole Austin-Hillery, 00:38:39.930 --> 00:38:41.850 director and counsel of the Washington office 00:38:41.850 --> 00:38:44.160 of the Brennan Center for Justice. 00:38:44.160 --> 00:38:46.280 Nicole Austin-Hillery, welcome to Democracy Now! 00:38:46.280 --> 00:38:49.230 Talk about the significance of this ruling in Pennsylvania. 00:38:50.130 --> 00:38:51.330 NICOLE AUSTIN-HILLERY: Amy, thank you so much 00:38:51.330 --> 00:38:52.740 for having me on. 00:38:52.740 --> 00:38:54.730 This ruling is quite significant, 00:38:54.730 --> 00:38:59.520 because here we have a court that has said 00:38:59.520 --> 00:39:02.370 that despite the fact that the state government 00:39:02.370 --> 00:39:05.360 stipulated that they have no evidence 00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:07.110 of in-person voter fraud 00:39:07.110 --> 00:39:10.100 ever having occurred in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, 00:39:10.100 --> 00:39:12.920 this court still says that it believes 00:39:12.920 --> 00:39:16.840 that it is OK for the state to implement a measure that is 00:39:16.840 --> 00:39:20.150 meant to protect the state against voter fraud, 00:39:20.150 --> 00:39:23.520 that the state has already admitted is simply nonexistent. 00:39:23.520 --> 00:39:26.700 And what we think this does is it sends a terrible message. 00:39:26.700 --> 00:39:29.950 It basically ensures that many voters 00:39:29.950 --> 00:39:31.910 in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania 00:39:31.910 --> 00:39:35.450 will have a very difficult, if not to impossible, 00:39:35.450 --> 00:39:40.900 time voting when we approach the November election this year. 00:39:41.510 --> 00:39:43.200 There are numerous people 00:39:43.200 --> 00:39:44.600 in Pennsylvania—and the Brennan Center 00:39:44.600 --> 00:39:48.160 did a report on this that was just released a few weeks ago 00:39:48.160 --> 00:39:51.320 about the difficulty of obtaining voter identification. 00:39:51.320 --> 00:39:54.870 There are hundreds of thousands of individuals in Pennsylvania, 00:39:54.870 --> 00:39:56.550 and the state has admitted to this, 00:39:56.550 --> 00:39:59.840 that simply don’t have the proper ID 00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:02.000 that, under the state’s new laws, 00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:05.470 are required in order to cast a vote in November. 00:40:05.470 --> 00:40:08.170 Even though the state has implemented measures 00:40:08.170 --> 00:40:11.250 that they say will ensure that every citizen, 00:40:11.250 --> 00:40:13.870 if they don’t have the requisite ID, can get it, 00:40:13.870 --> 00:40:17.570 we know that when changes are made so close to an election, 00:40:17.570 --> 00:40:19.790 when an entirely new system is put in place, 00:40:20.420 --> 00:40:23.780 that it is going to be difficult for each and every voter 00:40:24.410 --> 00:40:27.450 to be given that proper ID. 00:40:27.450 --> 00:40:29.630 And for many of those individuals who don’t get it 00:40:29.630 --> 00:40:30.920 who run into problems, 00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:33.720 they’re simply going to have a difficult time casting 00:40:33.720 --> 00:40:35.890 their ballot come November. 00:40:35.890 --> 00:40:37.860 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Nicole Austin-Hillery, 00:40:37.860 --> 00:40:39.710 the situation in Ohio, as well, 00:40:39.710 --> 00:40:42.110 could you talk about latest developments there, 00:40:42.110 --> 00:40:45.940 one of 13 states that have either tried to restrict or, 00:40:45.940 --> 00:40:47.640 in one way or other, 00:40:49.220 --> 00:40:51.290 put in new restrictions on voting? 00:40:52.980 --> 00:40:54.340 NICOLE AUSTIN-HILLERY: Certainly . 00:40:54.340 --> 00:40:57.330 And as you’ve already said, there has been a history 00:40:58.570 --> 00:41:02.190 of a lot of different things going on in Ohio, 00:41:02.190 --> 00:41:05.210 from ballot initiatives to attempts 00:41:05.210 --> 00:41:07.110 by the state legislature to pass laws 00:41:07.110 --> 00:41:10.700 that have the effect of prohibiting certain voters 00:41:10.700 --> 00:41:13.090 or making it harder for certain voters to cast their vote. 00:41:13.090 --> 00:41:15.770 Most recently, this week, the secretary of state, 00:41:16.560 --> 00:41:18.450 Secretary Husted, in Ohio 00:41:19.150 --> 00:41:22.270 had made a determination regarding early voting hours. 00:41:22.990 --> 00:41:27.100 What he had determined was that there would be varying hours 00:41:27.690 --> 00:41:29.980 for early voting across the state. 00:41:30.540 --> 00:41:34.370 When you take a close look at the jurisdictions in Ohio, 00:41:34.370 --> 00:41:37.090 what he was basically determining 00:41:37.090 --> 00:41:38.860 was that jurisdictions 00:41:38.860 --> 00:41:42.710 that tended to have majority white populations 00:41:42.710 --> 00:41:45.710 and where the majority of voters were registered Republican, 00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:50.580 their hours were going to be extended. 00:41:51.310 --> 00:41:54.340 They were going to have, rather, the longest opportunity 00:41:54.340 --> 00:41:56.520 for—to cast their early votes. 00:41:56.520 --> 00:41:59.940 However, when you look at jurisdictions 00:41:59.940 --> 00:42:02.130 that had a large minority population 00:42:02.130 --> 00:42:06.260 and where there was a large percentage of individuals 00:42:06.260 --> 00:42:10.150 who were registered Democrats, he had applied a different rule, 00:42:10.150 --> 00:42:13.690 and the early voting hours in those jurisdictions 00:42:13.690 --> 00:42:15.810 were going to be shorter. 00:42:15.810 --> 00:42:19.590 Well, of course, there was an outcry from many people, 00:42:20.450 --> 00:42:23.690 citizens in Ohio, as well as progressive organizations 00:42:23.690 --> 00:42:25.170 that simply want to ensure 00:42:25.170 --> 00:42:28.640 that there’s uniformity in terms of early voting hours. 00:42:29.190 --> 00:42:33.800 As a result, Mr. Husted yesterday made the determination 00:42:33.800 --> 00:42:35.740 that there would be uniformity now 00:42:35.740 --> 00:42:37.590 in terms of the early voting hours 00:42:37.590 --> 00:42:41.640 and that it would be the same in every jurisdiction in Ohio. 00:42:41.640 --> 00:42:44.460 Unfortunately, even in making that decision 00:42:44.460 --> 00:42:48.450 to ensure uniformity, what he did not do is ensure 00:42:48.450 --> 00:42:53.240 that there would be early voting hours on the weekends. 00:42:53.240 --> 00:42:54.870 And what many studies have shown, 00:42:54.870 --> 00:42:56.290 what some of the work the Brennan Center 00:42:56.290 --> 00:43:00.030 has done has shown, is that minority populations 00:43:00.030 --> 00:43:04.450 often take advantage of early voting hours on weekends. 00:43:04.450 --> 00:43:07.420 For instance, a lot of the African-American congregations 00:43:07.420 --> 00:43:11.810 throughout the country have actually had organized efforts 00:43:11.810 --> 00:43:15.360 to ensure that their congregants get to the polls 00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:17.020 to take advantage of early voting hours, 00:43:17.020 --> 00:43:19.460 particularly on Sunday after church. 00:43:20.120 --> 00:43:24.230 So, in effect, if Ohio is no longer offering 00:43:24.230 --> 00:43:27.530 that option of voting on Sunday, for instance, 00:43:27.530 --> 00:43:29.190 that means that efforts like that will be curtailed— 00:43:29.190 --> 00:43:30.450 AMY GOODMAN: Nicole— 00:43:30.450 --> 00:43:31.660 NICOLE AUSTIN-HILLERY: —and that —yes, Amy? 00:43:31.660 --> 00:43:33.800 AMY GOODMAN: Nicole, I wanted to play a recent comment 00:43:33.800 --> 00:43:36.290 by the Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted 00:43:36.290 --> 00:43:39.230 about the controversy over the voting hours. 00:43:39.230 --> 00:43:41.040 He was on the right-wing pundit 00:43:41.040 --> 00:43:43.260 Laura Ingraham’s radio show show last week. 00:43:43.790 --> 00:43:45.080 SECRETARY OF STATE JON HUSTED: I don’t think the bar 00:43:45.080 --> 00:43:46.310 is too high there 00:43:46.310 --> 00:43:49.310 for anybody who really cares about the future of our country 00:43:49.310 --> 00:43:51.650 and wants to have their voice heard by voting. 00:43:51.650 --> 00:43:55.050 We try to make it easy, but we can’t—you know, 00:43:55.050 --> 00:43:59.710 I say we’re not 7-Eleven. We can’t stay open 24-seven 00:43:59.710 --> 00:44:02.259 and let anybody vote by any rule that they want to. 00:44:03.330 --> 00:44:05.150 AMY GOODMAN: That is Ohio’s secretary of state. 00:44:05.150 --> 00:44:06.850 Nicole Austin-Hillery? 00:44:09.950 --> 00:44:11.330 NICOLE AUSTIN-HILLERY: Amy, I’m sorry. 00:44:11.330 --> 00:44:12.950 I didn’t hear your question. 00:44:12.950 --> 00:44:15.080 AMY GOODMAN: Your response to what he said: we’re not, 00:44:15.080 --> 00:44:17.840 you know, 7-Eleven here, staying open 24 hours a day. 00:44:18.970 --> 00:44:21.550 NICOLE AUSTIN-HILLERY: You know, Amy, no one is asking 00:44:22.070 --> 00:44:23.770 that the secretary of state 00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:29.840 ensure that their polls stay open throughout the night 00:44:29.840 --> 00:44:35.090 and all day. What organizations, like ours, 00:44:35.090 --> 00:44:38.730 that want to ensure democracy for everyone in this country, 00:44:38.730 --> 00:44:42.420 organizations that want to ensure that all Americans 00:44:42.950 --> 00:44:47.580 are not prohibited or inhibited from casting their ballots, 00:44:47.580 --> 00:44:51.210 what we want is for states to ensure 00:44:51.210 --> 00:44:54.140 that people have fair and equal opportunity 00:44:54.930 --> 00:44:57.070 to get access to the ballot box. 00:44:57.750 --> 00:45:01.200 Again, what we’ve seen in this country is that, 00:45:01.200 --> 00:45:05.070 with the creation of early voting, 00:45:05.070 --> 00:45:09.710 many Americans who may have had difficulty casting their votes 00:45:09.710 --> 00:45:12.600 on the designated Tuesday 00:45:13.490 --> 00:45:16.310 have more of an opportunity to get to the polls. 00:45:16.310 --> 00:45:18.070 We know that there are many people 00:45:18.070 --> 00:45:20.330 who have difficulties on the designated 00:45:20.330 --> 00:45:21.920 Tuesday of an election day. 00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:23.790 There are poor and working people 00:45:23.790 --> 00:45:26.140 who simply can’t take off work, 00:45:26.680 --> 00:45:30.400 people who can’t afford to stand in long lines for hours. 00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:32.700 We saw, in the last presidential election, 00:45:33.240 --> 00:45:34.490 there were many jurisdictions 00:45:34.490 --> 00:45:36.930 where people were standing in line for hours. 00:45:37.900 --> 00:45:40.440 People—lines were wrapped around buildings. 00:45:41.130 --> 00:45:43.820 Many people were able to stand in those lines, 00:45:43.820 --> 00:45:45.800 but there were many people who weren’t, 00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:49.280 individuals who simply did not have that kind of flexibility 00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:50.710 with respect to jobs, 00:45:50.710 --> 00:45:54.060 family care and other responsibilities. 00:45:54.060 --> 00:45:55.420 So we know that early vote— JUAN GONZÁLEZ: I wanted to— 00:45:55.420 --> 00:45:56.700 NICOLE AUSTIN-HILLERY: —early voting— 00:45:56.700 --> 00:45:57.920 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: I wanted to ask you, if I can— 00:45:57.920 --> 00:45:59.160 NICOLE AUSTIN-HILLERY: Yes. 00:45:59.160 --> 00:46:01.360 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: —about another important swing state, Florida. 00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:03.960 Earlier this year, the Justice Department ordered Florida 00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:06.020 to end a controversial voter purge 00:46:06.020 --> 00:46:07.990 that has primarily targeted Latino, 00:46:07.990 --> 00:46:10.560 Democratic and independent-minded voters. 00:46:10.560 --> 00:46:12.860 Now Florida’s voter purge will move ahead, 00:46:12.860 --> 00:46:15.510 after the federal government finalized an agreement 00:46:15.510 --> 00:46:17.070 to allow the state to access records 00:46:17.070 --> 00:46:20.020 that could detect non-citizens on the voting rolls. 00:46:20.020 --> 00:46:22.820 I want to turn to a clip of Republican Governor Rick Scott 00:46:22.820 --> 00:46:26.240 of Florida on Fox News defending the voter purge. 00:46:26.990 --> 00:46:28.680 GOV. RICK SCOTT: I want fair, honest elections. 00:46:28.680 --> 00:46:30.120 I don’t know anyone that doesn’t. 00:46:30.120 --> 00:46:32.130 GREGG JARRETT: Holder says you’re suppressing votes. 00:46:32.130 --> 00:46:34.300 GOV. RICK SCOTT: No. I mean, I want people to vote, 00:46:34.300 --> 00:46:36.400 register to vote, but U.S. citizens. 00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:38.490 GREGG JARRETT: Yeah, but he says you’re suppressing 00:46:38.490 --> 00:46:39.880 Democrat votes. 00:46:39.880 --> 00:46:41.700 GOV. RICK SCOTT: No, I want everybody to vote 00:46:41.700 --> 00:46:44.240 that wants to vote, but only U.S. citizens. 00:46:45.270 --> 00:46:47.460 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Nicole Austin-Hillery, your response? 00:46:49.060 --> 00:46:52.840 NICOLE AUSTIN-HILLERY: Sure. We, too, at the Brennan Center, 00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:55.990 want to ensure that the people who cast ballots 00:46:55.990 --> 00:47:02.160 are indeed people who under our laws are to—are 00:47:02.160 --> 00:47:04.730 the people who should be casting ballots—citizens, 00:47:05.330 --> 00:47:06.770 people who are registered properly. 00:47:06.770 --> 00:47:08.000 That’s what we all want. 00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:09.590 We want this to be a fair system. 00:47:09.590 --> 00:47:14.690 The problem in Florida is this. Florida has waited until very, 00:47:14.690 --> 00:47:17.240 very close to the election, number one, 00:47:17.240 --> 00:47:20.700 to decide that they wanted to do a purge of their voting rolls. 00:47:21.380 --> 00:47:23.800 Under the National Voter Registration Act, 00:47:23.800 --> 00:47:26.310 jurisdictions are supposed to make changes 00:47:26.310 --> 00:47:31.980 such as that no sooner than 90 days before an election. 00:47:31.980 --> 00:47:35.270 Florida decided to make these changes 00:47:35.270 --> 00:47:40.620 within 90 days of their primary. So that was a concern, 00:47:40.620 --> 00:47:42.110 that there simply wasn’t enough time 00:47:42.110 --> 00:47:45.000 to do an accurate review of these rolls. 00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:48.620 We think that if Florida was truly concerned 00:47:48.620 --> 00:47:51.450 about cleaning up their rolls, this would have been activity 00:47:51.450 --> 00:47:54.530 that they would have undertaken far sooner, 00:47:54.530 --> 00:47:57.640 during a time when they would have actually had time 00:47:57.640 --> 00:48:01.050 to go through the rolls to deal with any issues and errors, 00:48:01.050 --> 00:48:03.600 and it wouldn’t have come up at a time 00:48:03.600 --> 00:48:05.290 when it would have caused a lot of confusion 00:48:05.290 --> 00:48:08.070 and intimidation for voters. That’s number one. 00:48:08.070 --> 00:48:12.050 Number two, the Department of Homeland Security 00:48:12.720 --> 00:48:15.260 has already agreed to provide the state of Florida 00:48:15.850 --> 00:48:19.260 with a database that Florida has requested 00:48:19.260 --> 00:48:24.430 that would enable them to verify the rolls of citizens 00:48:24.430 --> 00:48:26.570 and to ensure that they are removing the people 00:48:26.570 --> 00:48:28.450 who aren’t citizens from their rolls. 00:48:29.290 --> 00:48:32.260 Right now, Florida and the Department of Homeland Security 00:48:32.260 --> 00:48:35.470 are working to reach a memorandum of agreement 00:48:35.470 --> 00:48:36.990 or a memorandum of understanding, 00:48:36.990 --> 00:48:40.800 if you will, that would enable Florida to use that database. 00:48:41.400 --> 00:48:43.820 Those negotiations are still underway. 00:48:43.820 --> 00:48:45.530 So we will see what happens, 00:48:45.530 --> 00:48:47.410 if that will happen in a timely manner. 00:48:47.410 --> 00:48:52.260 But the main point is that whenever states determine 00:48:52.260 --> 00:48:54.370 that they want to purge their rolls 00:48:54.370 --> 00:48:57.240 or clean up their rolls, it takes time. 00:48:57.240 --> 00:48:59.490 It has to be done efficiently and effectively. 00:48:59.490 --> 00:49:01.640 And waiting to do so so very close 00:49:01.640 --> 00:49:04.420 to an election always raises concerns 00:49:04.420 --> 00:49:07.530 about why a state is doing it so close to an election. 00:49:08.300 --> 00:49:11.200 And we’re always concerned about errors 00:49:11.200 --> 00:49:12.990 and the fact that innocent people, 00:49:12.990 --> 00:49:17.120 individuals who are indeed eligible registered voters, 00:49:17.120 --> 00:49:18.800 we’re always worried about whether those people 00:49:18.800 --> 00:49:20.540 may be erroneously kicked off the rolls. 00:49:20.540 --> 00:49:21.800 AMY GOODMAN: Nicole Austin-Hillery, 00:49:21.800 --> 00:49:23.170 I want to thank you so much for being with us, 00:49:23.170 --> 00:49:24.680 director and counsel of the Washington office 00:49:24.680 --> 00:49:26.020 of the Brennan Center for Justice. 00:49:26.020 --> 00:50:48.870 This is Democracy Now! Back in a minute. 00:50:50.210 --> 00:50:51.760 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: We turn now to breaking news in Russia, 00:50:51.760 --> 00:50:53.780 where three members of the feminist punk group 00:50:53.780 --> 00:50:56.560 Pussy Riot have just been found guilty of hooliganism 00:50:56.560 --> 00:50:59.930 for staging a peaceful protest against Russian leader 00:50:59.930 --> 00:51:02.950 Vladimir Putin inside an Orthodox church. 00:51:02.950 --> 00:51:05.050 As we go to broadcast, the verdict in a case 00:51:05.050 --> 00:51:07.160 that’s drawn widespread attention from around the world 00:51:07.160 --> 00:51:08.850 is still being read in court, 00:51:08.850 --> 00:51:10.800 and the sentence has not yet been announced. 00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:14.100 On February 21st, five members of Pussy Riot rushed 00:51:14.100 --> 00:51:17.260 before the altar of Moscow’s Cathedral of Christ the Saviour. 00:51:17.260 --> 00:51:19.970 They genuflected, danced and issued a punk prayer, 00:51:19.970 --> 00:51:23.290 exhorting the Virgin Mary to get Putin out. 00:51:23.290 --> 00:51:42.280 PUSSY RIOT: [performing "Punk-Prayer 00:51:42.280 --> 00:51:43.780 'Virgin Mary, Put Putin Away'"] 00:51:43.780 --> 00:51:45.170 AMY GOODMAN: That was Pussy Riot’s 00:51:45.170 --> 00:51:46.670 "Punk-Prayer" with video footage, 00:51:46.670 --> 00:51:49.910 for our TV listeners, from the church protest. 00:51:49.910 --> 00:51:52.510 Well, three young women accused of participating 00:51:52.510 --> 00:51:54.330 in that protest have just been found guilty. 00:51:54.330 --> 00:51:56.420 They’ve already been in jail for five months. 00:51:56.420 --> 00:52:00.220 Their names are Nadia Tolokonnikova, 00:52:00.810 --> 00:52:04.070 Katja Samutsevich and Masha Alyokhina. 00:52:04.070 --> 00:52:06.550 The case was seen as a key test 00:52:06.550 --> 00:52:08.610 of how far Russian leader Vladimir Putin 00:52:08.610 --> 00:52:10.990 might go to crack down against protesters. 00:52:12.100 --> 00:52:14.840 The three jailed performers drew admiration 00:52:14.840 --> 00:52:16.810 from around the world, with activists and musicians, 00:52:16.810 --> 00:52:18.530 including Madonna, Paul McCartney, 00:52:18.530 --> 00:52:20.960 Red Hot Chili Peppers, showing their support. 00:52:20.960 --> 00:52:23.720 In fact, the outcry was reportedly so intense, 00:52:23.720 --> 00:52:25.890 the judge giving today’s verdict 00:52:25.890 --> 00:52:28.610 was placed under state protection after officials 00:52:28.610 --> 00:52:30.670 say she received threats. 00:52:30.670 --> 00:52:32.390 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Protest actions in support of Pussy Riot 00:52:32.390 --> 00:52:33.730 were scheduled to kick off today 00:52:33.730 --> 00:52:35.380 in some three dozen cities around the world, 00:52:35.380 --> 00:52:36.730 including here in New York. 00:52:36.730 --> 00:52:38.100 Well, for more on Pussy Riot, 00:52:38.100 --> 00:52:40.200 we’re joined in New York by JD Samson, 00:52:40.200 --> 00:52:43.840 a feminist punk musician with the bands Le Tigre and MEN. 00:52:43.840 --> 00:52:45.190 She’s been organizing events 00:52:45.190 --> 00:52:47.260 in support of Pussy Riot here in New York. 00:52:47.260 --> 00:52:48.590 JD SAMSON: Hi. 00:52:48.590 --> 00:52:49.800 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Hi. JD SAMSON: How are you guys? 00:52:49.800 --> 00:52:51.040 AMY GOODMAN: It’s great to have you with us. 00:52:51.040 --> 00:52:53.880 So, tell us about Pussy Riot, who they are, 00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:55.730 who the women are who are now in jail, 00:52:55.730 --> 00:52:57.250 and the significance of this guilty 00:52:57.250 --> 00:52:59.030 verdict—the sentences being read 00:52:59.030 --> 00:53:00.660 as we are broadcasting right now. 00:53:00.660 --> 00:53:01.910 JD SAMSON: Right. I mean, obviously, 00:53:01.910 --> 00:53:05.120 for myself being a part of an activist, feminist, 00:53:05.120 --> 00:53:09.350 you know, political band for the past 10 years, 00:53:09.350 --> 00:53:11.020 it’s close to home for me. 00:53:11.020 --> 00:53:12.810 So, for the past, you know, six months 00:53:12.810 --> 00:53:15.410 I’ve been trying to organize both shows in Russia 00:53:15.410 --> 00:53:16.930 and here in the States. 00:53:16.930 --> 00:53:20.150 And last night, we held a reading of all of the texts 00:53:20.150 --> 00:53:21.740 that the women have put out, 00:53:21.740 --> 00:53:23.840 both in the statements on the trial 00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:25.900 as well as their lyrics to the songs, 00:53:25.900 --> 00:53:27.900 which has been—was really incredible. 00:53:27.900 --> 00:53:30.220 We had artists read them last night, 00:53:30.220 --> 00:53:31.980 and a lot of people showed up. 00:53:31.980 --> 00:53:34.030 Today, there’s rallies all over New York, 00:53:35.580 --> 00:53:37.690 from churches to Times Square. 00:53:37.690 --> 00:53:42.090 And clearly, we’re all very upset about the verdict 00:53:42.090 --> 00:53:44.170 which was read just a short time ago, so... 00:53:44.170 --> 00:53:45.530 AMY GOODMAN: Democracy Now! 00:53:45.530 --> 00:53:48.620 spoke on Wednesday with Alisa Obraztsova, 00:53:48.620 --> 00:53:51.730 an assistant to the lawyers representing Pussy Riot. 00:53:51.730 --> 00:53:53.050 She said the defense team 00:53:53.050 --> 00:53:54.740 believes the case against Pussy Riot 00:53:54.740 --> 00:53:56.440 is politically motivated. 00:53:56.960 --> 00:54:01.940 ALISA OBRAZTSOVA: We understand very well that this case 00:54:01.940 --> 00:54:03.640 is a political put-up job, 00:54:04.410 --> 00:54:07.580 and all the decisions concerning this protest 00:54:08.240 --> 00:54:12.340 and the arrest of the girls were made by people 00:54:12.340 --> 00:54:14.610 who are high up in the civil service. 00:54:15.690 --> 00:54:19.220 We are more than sure that all the sanctions 00:54:19.220 --> 00:54:24.120 for all the actions concerning Pussy Riot 00:54:24.120 --> 00:54:29.020 were given by Putin or someone very close to him. 00:54:29.020 --> 00:54:31.590 We wanted to ask Americans 00:54:31.590 --> 00:54:34.410 not to cherish an illusion about Russia. 00:54:34.410 --> 00:54:38.430 Unfortunately, American people will never understand 00:54:38.430 --> 00:54:40.090 how the legal trial 00:54:40.090 --> 00:54:43.760 may ignore all prepositions of law in Russia. 00:54:44.590 --> 00:54:46.770 And it’s impossible to understand 00:54:46.770 --> 00:54:49.870 for people living in democracy how it is possible to live 00:54:49.870 --> 00:54:52.440 in the system of disregard of the law. 00:54:53.290 --> 00:54:58.560 Only way is to believe the society and not the government, 00:54:58.560 --> 00:55:04.130 because there is no common sense in such legal trials, 00:55:04.130 --> 00:55:07.250 and only the society’s reaction 00:55:07.250 --> 00:55:11.050 may describe the real situation in Russia, 00:55:11.050 --> 00:55:15.550 in general, and according this court. 00:55:16.320 --> 00:55:18.250 AMY GOODMAN: That was Alisa Obraztsova, 00:55:18.250 --> 00:55:20.260 representing Pussy Riot’s legal defense team, 00:55:20.260 --> 00:55:21.550 speaking to Democracy Now! 00:55:21.550 --> 00:55:23.640 from Moscow. She’s in the courtroom right now, 00:55:23.640 --> 00:55:25.730 and we are getting reports that people 00:55:25.730 --> 00:55:28.430 who are protesting outside are being arrested. 00:55:28.430 --> 00:55:29.710 Juan? 00:55:29.710 --> 00:55:31.100 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, I wanted to ask you, if possible, 00:55:31.100 --> 00:55:34.890 to read some of the lyrics of the song 00:55:36.080 --> 00:55:37.310 that they sang in the church 00:55:37.310 --> 00:55:41.450 that has led to their arrest and now this trial. 00:55:41.450 --> 00:55:43.320 JD SAMSON: Of course. The song was called, 00:55:43.320 --> 00:55:46.020 "Punk Prayer 'Virgin Mary, Put Putin Away.'" 00:55:47.020 --> 00:55:50.050 Virgin Mary, Mother of God, put Putin away 00:55:50.050 --> 00:55:52.120 Put Putin away, put Putin away 00:55:52.850 --> 00:55:54.960 Black robe, golden epaulettes 00:55:54.960 --> 00:55:56.710 All parishioners crawl to bow 00:55:57.310 --> 00:55:59.880 The phantom of liberty is in heaven 00:55:59.880 --> 00:56:02.360 Gay-pride sent to Siberia in chains 00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:05.530 The head of the KGB, their chief saint, 00:56:06.040 --> 00:56:10.060 Leads protesters to prison under escort 00:56:10.060 --> 00:56:12.320 In order not to offend His Holiness 00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:15.620 Women must give birth and love Virgin 00:56:15.620 --> 00:56:18.270 Mary, Mother of God, become a feminist 00:56:18.270 --> 00:56:20.990 Become a feminist, become a feminist. 00:56:20.990 --> 00:56:24.400 AMY GOODMAN: We are showing now, for our TV viewers, 00:56:24.400 --> 00:56:25.950 live pictures of the verdict, 00:56:25.950 --> 00:56:28.240 and people can go online at democracynow.org. 00:56:29.210 --> 00:56:33.970 We also just read a tweet: Russian opposition leader 00:56:33.970 --> 00:56:38.260 Garry Kasparov has been arrested outside the Pussy Riot court. 00:56:38.980 --> 00:56:42.340 Why has this resonated like it has throughout the world? 00:56:42.340 --> 00:56:43.720 JD SAMSON: I think a lot of reasons. 00:56:43.720 --> 00:56:45.240 One of them is that, you know, 00:56:45.240 --> 00:56:47.520 feminism is in a new wave, I believe. 00:56:47.520 --> 00:56:51.200 And I think that people have been kind of been—you know, 00:56:51.200 --> 00:56:53.090 there’s been things inching up, 00:56:53.090 --> 00:56:56.440 all these conversations about abortion 00:56:56.440 --> 00:57:02.510 and all these new laws happening this year, 00:57:02.510 --> 00:57:05.120 and I think we’re just kind of at the top of this. 00:57:05.120 --> 00:57:09.360 And I think that as a feminist musician, as well, 00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:12.820 you know, we’re all interested in freedom of expression, 00:57:12.820 --> 00:57:15.830 and, as artists, we can all stand behind them, 00:57:15.830 --> 00:57:17.120 whether we’re Madonna, Yoko 00:57:17.120 --> 00:57:20.170 Ono, you know, or Sting or Paul McCartney. 00:57:20.170 --> 00:57:23.490 So, I think it’s just been a really incredible moment. 00:57:23.490 --> 00:57:26.640 Also, Russia clearly has no separation of church and state, 00:57:26.640 --> 00:57:28.710 and this is something that, you know, 00:57:28.710 --> 00:57:31.920 has been definitely important for us to think about. 00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:35.040 These women aren’t allowed to say the word "feminist." 00:57:35.040 --> 00:57:36.390 "Feminist" is a swear word. 00:57:36.390 --> 00:57:41.460 When asked in court what a feminist was, the judge said, 00:57:41.460 --> 00:57:43.510 "We don’t need to answer that question." 00:57:43.510 --> 00:57:44.960 So, these are all things 00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:47.059 that shock feminists all around the world. 00:57:47.950 --> 00:57:50.090 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And the impact on artists, 00:57:50.090 --> 00:57:52.330 especially in Russia, but around the world, 00:57:53.060 --> 00:57:56.670 of this band standing up to this authoritarian government? 00:57:57.220 --> 00:57:58.510 JD SAMSON: Yeah, I think one of the things 00:57:58.510 --> 00:57:59.830 that’s really strong for everyone 00:57:59.830 --> 00:58:03.790 is that they are staying so incredibly confident and strong. 00:58:03.790 --> 00:58:05.540 They’re standing there with their hands 00:58:05.540 --> 00:58:08.110 in handcuffs in a cage smiling, 00:58:08.110 --> 00:58:10.010 because they know that what they’ve done 00:58:10.010 --> 00:58:12.310 is ignite a fire in the rest of the world, 00:58:12.310 --> 00:58:15.260 and they’re extremely happy to have done so. 00:58:15.260 --> 00:58:16.570 And, yeah. 00:58:16.570 --> 00:58:18.250 AMY GOODMAN: And people can go to our website 00:58:18.250 --> 00:58:21.330 at democracynow.org to see them standing in that cage. 00:58:21.330 --> 00:58:24.980 We’re showing live footage from the courtroom in Moscow. 00:58:24.980 --> 00:58:27.550 Again, the verdict has come down: it’s guilty. 00:58:27.550 --> 00:58:30.560 The sentencing is being read as we are broadcasting. 00:58:30.560 --> 00:58:32.220 They face up to seven years in prison. 00:58:32.220 --> 00:58:34.900 They’ve already been in jail for five months, 00:58:35.420 --> 00:58:37.590 the group Pussy Riot. 00:58:37.590 --> 00:58:41.070 JD Samson, with the feminist punk musician band 00:58:41.070 --> 00:58:43.160 Le Tigre and MEN, thanks so much for being with us. 00:58:43.160 --> 00:58:44.400 JD SAMSON: Thanks for having me. 00:58:44.400 --> 00:58:47.310 AMY GOODMAN: And we will let people know the latest verdict 00:58:47.310 --> 00:58:50.900 and sentencing online at democracynow.org.