WEBVTT 1 00:00:14.280 --> 00:00:16.720 From Pacifica, this is Democracy Now! 2 00:00:16.720 --> 00:00:22.400 Our polling tells us that Americans want to have balanced budgets, they want responsible 3 00:00:22.400 --> 00:00:28.270 fiscal policies. But they don’t necessarily want to do it by cutting Social Security, 4 00:00:28.270 --> 00:00:35.160 Medicare, Medicaid, cutting domestic spending, and at the same time reducing taxes for billionaires. 5 00:00:35.160 --> 00:00:41.290 As the nation braces for across-the-board $85 billion spending cuts, we look at how 6 00:00:41.290 --> 00:00:45.700 Pete Peterson, the billionaire investor who once headed Lehman Brothers, has reshaped 7 00:00:45.700 --> 00:00:51.399 the national debate on the economy, the debt and social spending through his "Fix the Debt" 8 00:00:51.399 --> 00:00:52.159 campaign. 9 00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:59.059 Then, Makers: Women Who Make America. When you hear so many people around you telling 10 00:00:59.059 --> 00:01:06.059 your story, you then come to understand that it’s not really your story. It’s a lot 11 00:01:07.670 --> 00:01:08.600 of people’s story. 12 00:01:08.600 --> 00:01:13.130 A new PBS documentary premieres tonight telling the story of how women have shaped the United 13 00:01:13.130 --> 00:01:17.110 States over the last half century. We’ll speak with the film’s executive producer, 14 00:01:17.110 --> 00:01:18.159 Betsy West. 15 00:01:18.159 --> 00:01:23.000 And as protests grow in the West Bank over the death of a Palestinian man inside an Israeli 16 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:30.000 prison, we speak with two co-founders of Combatants for Peace. One is Palestinian, the other Israeli. 17 00:01:30.180 --> 00:01:33.890 They reunited after the death of their daughters. 18 00:01:33.890 --> 00:01:40.890 On the 4th of September, 1997, two Palestinian terrorists blew themselves up. They killed 19 00:01:42.780 --> 00:01:49.780 five people that day. One of them was my daughter, Smadar. I got a call from my eldest daughter, 20 00:01:52.530 --> 00:01:59.509 Arin. She was yelling, "Abir, Abir, Daddy! She was shot in the head by soldiers, and 21 00:01:59.509 --> 00:02:06.509 she is wounded." All that and more, coming up. 22 00:02:07.789 --> 00:02:12.980 Welcome to Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. 23 00:02:12.980 --> 00:02:18.040 Details are slowly emerging on the allegations against U.S. special operations forces that 24 00:02:18.040 --> 00:02:24.019 prompted Afghan President Hamid Karzai to order their removal from Wardak province. 25 00:02:24.019 --> 00:02:29.159 Afghan officials say they have received complaints for the past three months that U.S. forces 26 00:02:29.159 --> 00:02:35.000 have arrested nine people who have since disappeared. One Afghan villager said her son was taken 27 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:37.830 away and later found dead. 28 00:02:37.830 --> 00:02:44.830 Bibi Shereen: "My son was taken, and his body was dropped under a bridge in the river. One 29 00:02:46.069 --> 00:02:52.400 of his fingers was cut off. He was beaten very badly. His body was swollen from torture, 30 00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:59.400 and his throat was slit. Why is the government not listening to our voices? Why are they 31 00:03:02.440 --> 00:03:09.440 not stopping the Americans from doing such things? While I wanted to stand up to talk 32 00:03:09.650 --> 00:03:13.069 with the Americans, they have pulled me back and hit me in my chest with the butt of a 33 00:03:13.069 --> 00:03:18.019 gun. I still feel pain here since I’ve been beaten. I cannot breathe. You still can see 34 00:03:18.019 --> 00:03:20.239 the marks of the beating on my chest." 35 00:03:20.239 --> 00:03:24.689 The Afghan government is expected to form a commission of inquiry with the U.S.-led 36 00:03:24.689 --> 00:03:30.870 NATO occupation force to investigate the allegations. On Monday, a NATO spokesperson said no evidence 37 00:03:30.870 --> 00:03:32.900 of wrongdoing has emerged so far. 38 00:03:32.900 --> 00:03:39.870 Günter Katz: "We take all allegations of misconduct seriously and go to great lengths 39 00:03:39.870 --> 00:03:46.090 to determine the facts surrounding them. Over the past few weeks, there have been various 40 00:03:46.090 --> 00:03:53.000 allegations of special forces conducting themselves in an unprofessional manner in Maidan Wardak. 41 00:03:53.000 --> 00:04:00.000 So far, we could not find evidence that would support these allegations." Human Rights Watch 42 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:04.760 is reporting the Syrian government launched a series of ballistic missile strikes in the 43 00:04:04.760 --> 00:04:11.540 northern province of Aleppo last week, killing more than 141 people, including 71 children. 44 00:04:11.540 --> 00:04:15.769 The group said it had visited four attack sites, three of them in the city of Aleppo 45 00:04:15.769 --> 00:04:21.610 and all of them in residential neighborhoods. HRW’s United Nations director Philippe Bolopion 46 00:04:21.610 --> 00:04:24.830 described the damage. Philippe Bolopion: "The Syrian government 47 00:04:24.830 --> 00:04:30.460 is really hitting a new low, now using incredibly powerful ballistic missiles in cities. The 48 00:04:30.460 --> 00:04:36.990 four strikes that hit Aleppo last week obliterated entire parts of these neighborhoods. We have 49 00:04:36.990 --> 00:04:43.690 absolutely no sign that there were any legitimate military targets in these areas, so either 50 00:04:43.690 --> 00:04:49.020 the government is deliberately targeting civilians or at the very least it’s acting with a 51 00:04:49.020 --> 00:04:54.820 complete disregard for the lives of its own civilians." CIA nominee John Brennan continues 52 00:04:54.820 --> 00:04:59.840 to face hurdles toward a confirmation vote before the full Senate. Republican Senator 53 00:04:59.840 --> 00:05:06.139 Rand Paul has announced he will put a hold on Brennan’s nomination until Brennan and 54 00:05:06.139 --> 00:05:10.940 the White House can answer whether the government’s assassination program can target Americans 55 00:05:10.940 --> 00:05:15.750 on U.S. soil. Paul discussed his demand on Fox News. 56 00:05:15.750 --> 00:05:21.720 Sen. Rand Paul: "We’re talking about someone eating at a cafe in Boston or in New York, 57 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:27.389 and a Hellfire missile comes raining in on them. There should be an easy answer from 58 00:05:27.389 --> 00:05:32.960 the administration on this. They should say, 'Absolutely no, we will not kill Americans 59 00:05:32.960 --> 00:05:38.840 in America without an accusation, a trial and a jury.'" Former White House Press Secretary 60 00:05:38.840 --> 00:05:44.759 Robert Gibbs has revealed he was initially instructed to deny the existence of the Obama 61 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:49.919 administration’s targeted killing program overseas. Gibbs made the disclosure during 62 00:05:49.919 --> 00:05:54.220 an appearance on MSNBC. Robert Gibbs: "When I went through the process 63 00:05:54.220 --> 00:05:58.259 of becoming press secretary, one of the things — one of the first things they told me was, 64 00:05:58.259 --> 00:06:02.550 ’You’re not even to acknowledge the drone program. You’re not even to discuss that 65 00:06:02.550 --> 00:06:07.910 it exists.’ And so, I would get a question like that, and literally, I couldn’t tell 66 00:06:07.910 --> 00:06:10.460 you what Major [Garrett, Fox News reporter] asked, because once I figured out it was about 67 00:06:10.460 --> 00:06:15.080 the drone program, I realize I’m not supposed to talk about it. And — but here’s what’s 68 00:06:15.080 --> 00:06:21.550 inherently crazy about that proposition: You’re being asked a question based on reporting 69 00:06:21.550 --> 00:06:28.550 of a program that exists." Congress is expected to take up a number of key gun control proposals later this week. 70 00:06:35.770 --> 00:06:40.580 The Senate Judiciary Committee could vote as early as Thursday on a number of measures, 71 00:06:40.580 --> 00:06:45.490 including a ban on military-style assault weapons and a proposal to make gun trafficking 72 00:06:45.490 --> 00:06:50.910 a federal crime for the first time. Other proposals under consideration include background 73 00:06:50.910 --> 00:06:56.970 checks for gun buyers and harsher penalties for purchasing guns illegally. At a recent 74 00:06:56.970 --> 00:07:01.569 public event in Arizona, Republican Senator John McCain was asked about an assault weapons 75 00:07:01.569 --> 00:07:07.160 ban by a mother whose son was murdered in last year’s mass shooting in Aurora, Colorado. 76 00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:12.440 McCain responded that the woman, Caren Teves, needs some "straight talk" that an assault 77 00:07:12.440 --> 00:07:15.710 weapons ban would not pass Congress. Caren Teves: "My 24-year-old son, Alex, was 78 00:07:15.710 --> 00:07:22.710 murdered in a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado. These assault weapons allow a shooter to fire 79 00:07:24.729 --> 00:07:30.620 many rounds without having to reload. These weapons do not belong on our streets." 80 00:07:30.620 --> 00:07:35.940 Sen. John McCain: "I can tell you right now you need some straight talk. That assault 81 00:07:35.940 --> 00:07:39.539 weapons ban will not pass the Congress of the United States." A federal appeals court 82 00:07:39.539 --> 00:07:44.650 has ruled permits to carry concealed weapons are not protected by the Second Amendment. 83 00:07:44.650 --> 00:07:49.110 The ruling came in the case of a Washington state resident who had unsuccessfully sought 84 00:07:49.110 --> 00:07:54.020 a concealed weapons permit in Colorado. The Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit ruled 85 00:07:54.020 --> 00:07:59.909 the right to bear arms does not supersede laws barring their concealment. A four-year-old 86 00:07:59.909 --> 00:08:05.370 boy has died in Houston after shooting himself with his father’s gun. Jaiden Pratt picked 87 00:08:05.370 --> 00:08:10.659 up the weapon as his father lay asleep and accidentally fired a round into his own stomach. 88 00:08:10.659 --> 00:08:17.449 He was pronounced dead at the scene. A Qatari poet initially jailed for life in prison has 89 00:08:17.449 --> 00:08:23.379 had his sentence reduced to 15 years. Mohammed al-Ajami was accused of insulting Qatar’s 90 00:08:23.379 --> 00:08:29.490 emir and inciting the overthrow of the regime. He wrote a poem inspired by the Tunisian uprising 91 00:08:29.490 --> 00:08:35.630 that read, in part, "We are all Tunisia, in the face of the repressive elite." Al-Ajami 92 00:08:35.630 --> 00:08:41.620 has been held largely in solitary confinement since his arrest more than a year ago. Defense 93 00:08:41.620 --> 00:08:46.360 attorneys say they plan another appeal to Qatar’s supreme court to seek his immediate 94 00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:53.360 release. Leaders in Africa’s Great Lakes region have signed on to a framework agreement 95 00:09:04.730 --> 00:09:09.770 aimed at ending two decades of violence in the eastern Democratic Republic of Congo. 96 00:09:09.770 --> 00:09:14.090 The deal calls for increased cooperation between regional governments and more support for 97 00:09:14.090 --> 00:09:19.300 the multi-nation force inside eastern Congo. U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon praised 98 00:09:19.300 --> 00:09:25.630 the agreement at a signing ceremony in Ethiopia. Ban Ki-moon: "This signing ceremony is a significant 99 00:09:25.630 --> 00:09:32.630 event in itself. But it is only the beginning of a comprehensive approach that will require 100 00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:41.360 sustained engagement. The framework before you outlines commitments and oversight mechanisms 101 00:09:42.570 --> 00:09:48.590 which aim at addressing key national and regional issues." 102 00:09:48.590 --> 00:09:54.940 The DRC government and rebel groups are currently holding peace talks in neighboring Uganda. 103 00:09:54.940 --> 00:10:01.570 A U.S. energy firm has agreed to retire three coal-fired power plants in a move environmentalists 104 00:10:01.570 --> 00:10:06.480 say will save more than 200 lives each year. American Electric Power also agreed to reduce 105 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:11.090 emissions and make new investments in wind and solar power as part of a landmark settlement 106 00:10:11.090 --> 00:10:16.030 with federal regulators, states and citizen groups. In addition to retiring plants in 107 00:10:16.030 --> 00:10:23.030 Indiana, Ohio and Kentucky, AEP will pay $6 million to several eastern states hit by drifting 108 00:10:23.140 --> 00:10:27.970 pollution. Coal plants supply nearly a third of U.S. electricity and are the largest source 109 00:10:27.970 --> 00:10:33.980 of sulfur dioxide, mercury and carbon pollution. Today marks the first anniversary of the death 110 00:10:33.980 --> 00:10:40.940 of unarmed African-American teenager Trayvon Martin. On February 26, 2012, the 17-year-old 111 00:10:40.940 --> 00:10:46.840 high school junior was shot dead in Sanford, Florida, by George Zimmerman, a self-appointed 112 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:51.330 neighborhood watch volunteer who claimed he was acting in self-defense. Police initially 113 00:10:51.330 --> 00:10:55.530 refused to arrest Zimmerman, but he was finally charged with second-degree murder after a 114 00:10:55.530 --> 00:11:02.530 wave of protests around the country. His trial is set for June. AARON MATÉ: We begin with 115 00:11:11.640 --> 00:11:16.650 the Capitol Hill showdown over the $85 billion across-the-board budget cuts taking effect 116 00:11:16.650 --> 00:11:22.310 this Friday. The White House and analysts fear the so-called "sequester" could jeopardize 117 00:11:22.310 --> 00:11:28.190 hundreds of thousands of jobs. While Republicans and Democrats largely agree the cuts are ill-advised, 118 00:11:28.190 --> 00:11:32.900 they are far from reaching any sort of agreement. President Obama wants Republicans to end tax 119 00:11:32.900 --> 00:11:38.040 breaks, mostly for the wealthy; Republicans are insisting government spending be cut first. 120 00:11:38.040 --> 00:11:39.490 This is House Speaker John Boehner. 121 00:11:39.490 --> 00:11:43.290 SPEAKER JOHN BOEHNER: The president says we have to have another tax increase in order 122 00:11:43.290 --> 00:11:49.110 to avoid the sequester. Well, Mr. President, you got your tax increase. It’s time to 123 00:11:49.110 --> 00:11:56.110 cut spending here in Washington. Instead of using our military men and women as campaign 124 00:11:56.920 --> 00:12:01.960 props, if the president was serious, he’d sit down with Harry Reid and begin to address 125 00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:07.740 our problems. The House has acted twice. We shouldn’t have to act a third time before 126 00:12:07.740 --> 00:12:09.360 the Senate begins to do their work. 127 00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:13.890 AMY GOODMAN: Today President Obama plans to travel to a major military community in Newport 128 00:12:13.890 --> 00:12:17.980 News, Virginia, to highlight the impact of Pentagon cuts on a shipbuilding facility. 129 00:12:17.980 --> 00:12:23.490 On Monday, Obama urged a gathering of governors to push Congress into action to avert the 130 00:12:23.490 --> 00:12:25.230 looming sequester showdown. 131 00:12:25.230 --> 00:12:32.230 PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Now, these impacts will not all be felt on day one, but rest 132 00:12:32.670 --> 00:12:37.640 assured, the uncertainty is already having an effect. Companies are preparing layoff 133 00:12:37.640 --> 00:12:43.640 notices. Families are preparing to cut back on expenses. And the longer these cuts are 134 00:12:43.640 --> 00:12:50.640 in place, the bigger the impact will become. So, while you are in town, I hope that you 135 00:12:51.290 --> 00:12:56.640 speak with your congressional delegation and remind them, in no uncertain terms, exactly 136 00:12:56.640 --> 00:13:02.540 what is at stake and exactly who is at risk, because here’s the thing: These cuts do 137 00:13:02.540 --> 00:13:08.240 not have to happen. Congress can turn them off any time with just a little bit of compromise. 138 00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:11.360 AMY GOODMAN: Well, joining us now are two guests who have uncovered how billionaire 139 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:16.410 investors such as Pete Peterson have helped reshape the national debate on economy, the 140 00:13:16.410 --> 00:13:22.070 debt and social spending. Between 2007 and 2011, Peterson personally contributed nearly 141 00:13:22.070 --> 00:13:28.350 $500 million to his Peter G. Peterson Foundation to push for Congress to cut Social Security, 142 00:13:28.350 --> 00:13:32.560 Medicare and Medicaid, while providing tax breaks for corporations and the wealthy. Peterson 143 00:13:32.560 --> 00:13:36.490 served as secretary of commerce under Richard Nixon and went on to serve as chair and CEO 144 00:13:36.490 --> 00:13:41.010 of Lehman Brothers. He co-founded the private equity firm The Blackstone Group. 145 00:13:41.010 --> 00:13:45.060 Joining us from Madison, Wisconsin, is John Nichols, The Nation magazine’s political 146 00:13:45.060 --> 00:13:49.200 correspondent. His latest piece [http://www.thenation.com/blog/167703/scott-walkers-austerity-agenda-losing] is "The Austerity Agenda: An Electoral Loser." 147 00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:52.570 It’s part of a major exposé based on a new website [http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Portal:Fix_the_Debt] 148 00:13:52.570 --> 00:13:57.050 called "Pete Peterson Pyramid." Lisa Graves of the Center for Media and Democracy is editor 149 00:13:57.050 --> 00:14:01.480 of the site, which links billionaires like Peterson to the Campaign to Fix the Debt. 150 00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:06.110 We welcome you both to Democracy Now! John Nichols, why don’t you lay out who Pete 151 00:14:06.110 --> 00:14:10.950 Peterson is and how he fits into this picture of sequester that we look like we’re about 152 00:14:10.950 --> 00:14:12.540 to see by the end of the week? 153 00:14:12.540 --> 00:14:18.380 JOHN NICHOLS: Sure. Pete Peterson is an old-school moderate Republican. He’s not some sort 154 00:14:18.380 --> 00:14:25.380 of hard-line conservative. He’s a very expensive suit, private jet, mineral water kind of guy. 155 00:14:26.630 --> 00:14:33.080 And he has been obsessed, for a number of years, with restructuring the U.S. economy, 156 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:38.500 and particularly restructuring U.S. fiscal policy. This is an important thing to understand. 157 00:14:38.500 --> 00:14:44.310 Pete Peterson and the people around him do not want—or aren’t, I would suggest, particularly 158 00:14:44.310 --> 00:14:49.100 interested in fixing the debt or dealing with deficits. What they’re really interested 159 00:14:49.100 --> 00:14:54.810 in is taking advantage of a moment when the United States is looking at these issues to 160 00:14:54.810 --> 00:15:01.530 establish a very different approach to a host of issues. And at the core of this is changing 161 00:15:01.530 --> 00:15:06.550 the way that we look at retirement in this country, definitely undermining Social Security, 162 00:15:06.550 --> 00:15:10.680 Medicare and Medicaid, changing those earned benefit programs into something very different 163 00:15:10.680 --> 00:15:15.370 than what they’ve been and something far less reliable, but also making an awfully 164 00:15:15.370 --> 00:15:21.360 lot of other cuts in programs that serve the great mass of Americans, while at the same 165 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:28.320 time continuing and even advancing the tax breaks for billionaires and corporations that 166 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:32.670 have helped to make Pete Peterson a very, very wealthy man. 167 00:15:32.670 --> 00:15:39.350 He sold this idea to around 125 other CEOs and very wealthy people. They’ve all chipped 168 00:15:39.350 --> 00:15:44.820 in a whole bunch of money, millions and millions, perhaps as much as $60 million for the current 169 00:15:44.820 --> 00:15:50.480 campaign, to this "Fix the Debt" group. And this Fix the Debt group is the primary proponent 170 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:57.430 in the United States today of austerity. They want to, quote-unquote, "cut our way to progress," 171 00:15:57.430 --> 00:16:02.910 as President Obama suggested, but in reality, it’s cutting the way toward progress for 172 00:16:02.910 --> 00:16:09.910 them and cutting the way toward a real hard hit for the average working American and potentially 173 00:16:10.220 --> 00:16:14.540 a slowing of the economy that begins with the sequester but does not end there. 174 00:16:14.540 --> 00:16:19.140 AARON MATÉ: Well, let’s turn to Pete Peterson in his own words. This is from a video posted 175 00:16:19.140 --> 00:16:21.870 on the YouTube page of his foundation. 176 00:16:21.870 --> 00:16:28.870 PETE PETERSON: We live in a society of special interests of various kinds. The organizations 177 00:16:31.130 --> 00:16:38.130 that are lobbying for expanding benefits and making the problems worse are unbelievably 178 00:16:41.790 --> 00:16:48.790 powerful. But who’s representing you? And why don’t you then get organized in young 179 00:16:50.450 --> 00:16:56.410 organizations? And I’ve had a dream. And my little dream is that one day there’d 180 00:16:56.410 --> 00:17:03.230 be 100,000 young people and their parents parading in Washington, saying, "I’m madder 181 00:17:03.230 --> 00:17:07.370 than hell, and I don’t intend to take it anymore." 182 00:17:07.370 --> 00:17:12.329 AARON MATÉ: That’s billionaire Pete Peterson talking about his dream of a revolt in favor 183 00:17:12.329 --> 00:17:17.260 of austerity. Lisa Graves, you’ve come up with the Peterson Pyramid. 184 00:17:17.260 --> 00:17:22.520 LISA GRAVES: That’s right. We—our team at the Center for Media and Democracy has 185 00:17:22.520 --> 00:17:27.500 worked hard to expose the conflicts of interest by a number of the people who are leaders 186 00:17:27.500 --> 00:17:33.810 of the Fix the Debt operation. When Pete Peterson talks about the bevy of special interests 187 00:17:33.810 --> 00:17:38.940 in Washington, he’s one of them, and he has helped—he’s helped seed an organization 188 00:17:38.940 --> 00:17:42.940 that’s filled with special interests. And so, what we’ve done at PetersonPyramid.org 189 00:17:42.940 --> 00:17:45.900 [http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Portal:Fix_the_Debt] is document that. So we talk about how Erskine 190 00:17:45.900 --> 00:17:50.960 Bowles, who’s famous for the Bowles-Simpson plan, which is the—another version of the 191 00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:56.100 austerity plan, how he’s on the board of Morgan Stanley and gets paid over $300,000 192 00:17:56.100 --> 00:18:02.010 a year for a couple hours of work on that board, how he’s been paid over $600,000 193 00:18:02.010 --> 00:18:06.790 on the board of Facebook, which recently had a huge tax giveaway. And so, that’s just 194 00:18:06.790 --> 00:18:10.690 one example that’s the tip of the iceberg, and we document it on our site because the 195 00:18:10.690 --> 00:18:15.160 people of the United States need to know that this is sort of a Pied Piper operation by 196 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:20.000 Pete Peterson and his buddies to try to claim that the real crisis is the debt, when in 197 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:25.480 fact the real crisis is our economy and the lack of focus on jobs. And as Dean Baker, 198 00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:29.710 the great economist, said, you can’t cut your way to prosperity. And, in fact, it’s 199 00:18:29.710 --> 00:18:34.490 like saying, when a house is on fire, stop putting so much water on the fire to put it 200 00:18:34.490 --> 00:18:34.970 out. 201 00:18:34.970 --> 00:18:41.160 AMY GOODMAN: Tell us more about who Pete Peterson is, Lisa Graves. And also, have they responded? 202 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:46.790 Has he or his organization responded to Peterson’s Pyramid, what you have just laid out? 203 00:18:46.790 --> 00:18:51.940 LISA GRAVES: Well, I think Pete Peterson has an unhealthy obsession with Social Security—and, 204 00:18:51.940 --> 00:18:56.010 you know, as a man who’s never actually going to really need it. But most Americans 205 00:18:56.010 --> 00:19:01.060 in fact do need Social Security. One of the things you see with the Pete Peterson organizations 206 00:19:01.060 --> 00:19:06.190 that he has seeded or created over time is this obsession with Social Security. In fact, 207 00:19:06.190 --> 00:19:10.530 Social Security is solvent. It’s solvent for at least the next 20 years. It’s more 208 00:19:10.530 --> 00:19:14.880 solvent than you or I or probably anyone who’s watching this show. And yet they want to make 209 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:18.560 sure that cuts to Social Security, changes to Social Security, the retirement age and 210 00:19:18.560 --> 00:19:23.510 the benefits, having those decrease over time as people age, is part of a so-called balanced 211 00:19:23.510 --> 00:19:29.140 deal or a package. That’s a terrible idea. And that’s part of the Pete Peterson legacy. 212 00:19:29.140 --> 00:19:35.220 He’s also seeding these groups to have this sort of youth group element to it, which is 213 00:19:35.220 --> 00:19:39.500 really—it would be funny if it weren’t so worrisome, where they have put a lot of 214 00:19:39.500 --> 00:19:45.130 money into this notion that the youth of America are having this uprising, the dream that he 215 00:19:45.130 --> 00:19:51.340 said in that video, when in fact most American students are deeply concerned about the jobs 216 00:19:51.340 --> 00:19:56.990 in this country. And cutting our—cutting our government budget in the ways that Peterson 217 00:19:56.990 --> 00:20:01.100 and his buddies propose will make that job climate even worse for those students. Those 218 00:20:01.100 --> 00:20:05.500 students are far more concerned about their own personal debt and student loans than the 219 00:20:05.500 --> 00:20:08.550 debt that is supposedly being levied on them by Social Security, which does not actually 220 00:20:08.550 --> 00:20:09.510 contribute to the debt. 221 00:20:09.510 --> 00:20:12.840 AMY GOODMAN: Has Peterson responded, Lisa, to Peterson’s Pyramid? 222 00:20:12.840 --> 00:20:19.230 LISA GRAVES: Fix the Debt’s communications director has responded. He called our office 223 00:20:19.230 --> 00:20:25.400 to claim that their organization never claimed that they were trying to raise $60 million, 224 00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:28.990 he said. Their vice president of communications said that they were trying to raise any amount, 225 00:20:28.990 --> 00:20:33.620 not just $60 million. I pointed out we had it on their letterhead, in fact, that they 226 00:20:33.620 --> 00:20:39.280 were marking out a campaign worth $60 million to push these issues this year. He basically 227 00:20:39.280 --> 00:20:43.310 said that wasn’t true. We’ve got it on paper. You know, I said, you know, that’s 228 00:20:43.310 --> 00:20:46.970 why we don’t really quote the press secretaries, because they’re not obligated to tell the 229 00:20:46.970 --> 00:20:49.390 truth. We’ve got the documentary evidence. 230 00:20:49.390 --> 00:20:54.970 And so, they pushed back a little, but, quite frankly, we have them—we have the goods 231 00:20:54.970 --> 00:20:59.370 on them. And that’s why this material is just streaming through the Internet, to show 232 00:20:59.370 --> 00:21:04.400 these conflicts of interest; to show the Democrats who are former members of Congress who have 233 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:08.340 left and cashed out and work as lobbyists for some of these big firms; to show the Republicans 234 00:21:08.340 --> 00:21:11.690 that continue to do the bidding of some of the big firms that they’ve joined since 235 00:21:11.690 --> 00:21:16.070 leaving office; to show the conflicts of some of these huge firms that are part of Fix the 236 00:21:16.070 --> 00:21:20.650 Debt who have a negative tax rate—who have a negative tax rate—not 35 percent like 237 00:21:20.650 --> 00:21:25.420 you or me, not 20 percent, not 10 percent, not 5 percent, but a negative tax rate. And 238 00:21:25.420 --> 00:21:25.990 on top of that— 239 00:21:25.990 --> 00:21:26.550 AMY GOODMAN: Like which ones? 240 00:21:26.550 --> 00:21:29.250 LISA GRAVES: —we show how many of these firms are underfunding their pension programs. 241 00:21:29.250 --> 00:21:30.970 AMY GOODMAN: Like which ones? 242 00:21:30.970 --> 00:21:36.220 LISA GRAVES: Oh, sure. So we have documented how General Electric is one of those firms 243 00:21:36.220 --> 00:21:41.840 that has had a negative—a negative tax rate. A number of the firms that are part of the 244 00:21:41.840 --> 00:21:46.680 Fix the Debt operation have negative tax rates. We’ve got about a dozen of them that we 245 00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:51.070 document on the site, including, you know, major defense contractor General Electric. 246 00:21:51.070 --> 00:21:55.970 We have other firms that, we have documented, are underfunding their pension programs. And 247 00:21:55.970 --> 00:22:00.090 we also show how much they’re—how well they’re funding their CEO pensions, while 248 00:22:00.090 --> 00:22:04.000 underfunding their worker pensions, and pushing this operation of Fix the Debt, which is trying 249 00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:08.150 to underfund every other Americans retirement, basically, pension programs through Social 250 00:22:08.150 --> 00:22:08.400 Security. 251 00:22:08.370 --> 00:22:12.550 AMY GOODMAN: Isn’t the head of GE President Obama’s job czar? 252 00:22:12.550 --> 00:22:18.850 LISA GRAVES: Yes, that is in fact the case. And so, you know, we do think that this is 253 00:22:18.850 --> 00:22:25.850 a huge, important part of this exposé, is to show how this bipartisan—this bipartisan 254 00:22:26.210 --> 00:22:30.930 pitch from these guys, from these CEOs, and from Democrats and Republicans, is unfortunately 255 00:22:30.930 --> 00:22:33.040 not a grand bargain, but really a grand swindle. 256 00:22:33.040 --> 00:22:37.920 AARON MATÉ: Well, Lisa, speaking of bipartisan, of course, we had the Simpson-Bowles Commission. 257 00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:42.880 In December, former Wyoming Senator Alan Simpson went on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart to 258 00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:44.620 discuss his budget proposal. 259 00:22:44.620 --> 00:22:49.780 SEN. ALAN SIMPSON: Our corporate tax rate is the highest in the world. And so— 260 00:22:49.780 --> 00:22:53.650 JON STEWART: But not actually. SEN. ALAN SIMPSON: Well, 36 percent is where 261 00:22:53.650 --> 00:22:59.270 we’re at. What we did, we took away all of these tax expenditures, all of these deductions, 262 00:22:59.270 --> 00:23:03.510 all of this stuff. This is just earmarks by any other name, and it’s spending by any 263 00:23:03.510 --> 00:23:09.870 name, and it’s at one trillion one hundred billion bucks a year. And only 20 percent 264 00:23:09.870 --> 00:23:13.990 of the American people use 80 percent of the stuff in that tax code. Does that give you 265 00:23:13.990 --> 00:23:16.350 the wake-up call of who’s gimme-ing the system? 266 00:23:16.350 --> 00:23:17.090 JON STEWART: Right. SEN. ALAN SIMPSON: OK. 267 00:23:17.090 --> 00:23:18.200 JON STEWART: But see, that brings up an interesting point. 268 00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:19.710 SEN. ALAN SIMPSON: And so we got rid of all of that— 269 00:23:19.710 --> 00:23:21.350 JON STEWART: Yeah, mm-hmm. SEN. ALAN SIMPSON: —and we say now give 270 00:23:21.350 --> 00:23:28.350 the American people from zero to 70 grand, they pay 8 percent; from 70 grand to $210,000, 271 00:23:29.350 --> 00:23:34.690 they pay 14; anything over that, 23. Take the corporate rate to 26 from 36 and not tax 272 00:23:34.690 --> 00:23:39.290 them twice when they bring it back. And when they bring it back, the Democrats, as Erskine 273 00:23:39.290 --> 00:23:43.960 says, a Democrat, the Democrats will say, "Well, they’ll just use it for dividends 274 00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:47.570 and to buy stock." And he said, "Well, hell, at least they’ll be using it in the United 275 00:23:47.570 --> 00:23:50.170 States of America instead of sticking it over there and leaving it." 276 00:23:50.170 --> 00:23:54.920 AARON MATÉ: That was former Senator Alan Simpson of the Simpson-Bowles Commission speaking 277 00:23:54.920 --> 00:24:00.220 on The Daily Show in December. John Nichols, if you could talk about Alan Simpson and the 278 00:24:00.220 --> 00:24:03.660 Simpson-Bowles Commission and how they fit into this Campaign to Fix the Debt. 279 00:24:03.660 --> 00:24:09.670 JOHN NICHOLS: Sure. I think the best way for folks to understand the Simpson-Bowles Commission 280 00:24:09.670 --> 00:24:16.580 is that it is a classic example of how, if you have wealthy people behind you, you can 281 00:24:16.580 --> 00:24:22.760 fail miserably and still continue to be at the center of the debate. The Simpson-Bowles 282 00:24:22.760 --> 00:24:28.059 Commission was established by President Obama with the purpose of coming up with some debt 283 00:24:28.059 --> 00:24:32.370 and deficit solution ideas. I think it was a bad idea from the start, and I think it 284 00:24:32.370 --> 00:24:39.090 was an example of President Obama bowing to arguments of the austerity caucus, if you 285 00:24:39.090 --> 00:24:42.420 will, in Washington, which includes both Democrats and Republicans. 286 00:24:42.420 --> 00:24:46.380 But they were put in charge of this. They came up with a plan. It was such an unpopular 287 00:24:46.380 --> 00:24:52.450 and unappealing plan that the commission itself did not recommend its report. Only Simpson 288 00:24:52.450 --> 00:24:57.280 and Bowles came out with their proposal. Then they tried to peddle it in Congress. They 289 00:24:57.280 --> 00:25:01.940 could only find 38 members of the House who would actually vote for their ideas. Then 290 00:25:01.940 --> 00:25:06.140 they went out into the November elections. They actually started endorsing candidates. 291 00:25:06.140 --> 00:25:11.430 The candidates that Simpson and Bowles endorsed, not only did they lose, but often you could 292 00:25:11.430 --> 00:25:15.559 tie the defeats of the candidates they endorsed to the fact that they were linked to Simpson 293 00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:21.020 and Bowles. So, if you want to see an example of two figures in American politics, career 294 00:25:21.020 --> 00:25:27.150 political types, who have been absolutely rejected by the American people, it’s Simpson 295 00:25:27.150 --> 00:25:31.820 and Bowles. And yet, interestingly enough, they’re back at the center of the debate, 296 00:25:31.820 --> 00:25:35.830 getting huge amounts of media coverage now. And one of the reasons for it is they’re 297 00:25:35.830 --> 00:25:37.520 tied to Fix the Debt. 298 00:25:37.520 --> 00:25:41.890 When Fix the Debt was launched last summer, it wasn’t launched at a kitchen table of 299 00:25:41.890 --> 00:25:47.530 some working family or in an abandoned factory; it was launched in Sun Valley, Idaho, at a 300 00:25:47.530 --> 00:25:53.230 retreat for CEOs and billionaires. And Simpson and Bowles said, "We’re going to go out 301 00:25:53.230 --> 00:26:00.210 and launch a grassroots campaign to get the American people to force Congress to act on 302 00:26:00.210 --> 00:26:05.000 the ideas that we’ve put forward," which are an American austerity agenda. And they 303 00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:10.640 said they were going to get 10 million signatures on petitions to do this. Amazingly enough, 304 00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:14.980 for this big grassroots campaign, all this millions and millions in spending, they still 305 00:26:14.980 --> 00:26:19.960 only got about 300,000 signatures. And most of those signatures appear to be tied to either 306 00:26:19.960 --> 00:26:25.150 bought lists or people who work for companies allied with the Fix the Debt operation. So 307 00:26:25.150 --> 00:26:30.250 the bottom line is, Simpson and Bowles are arguing for austerity and being held up by 308 00:26:30.250 --> 00:26:35.690 much of the media as legitimate players, when in fact they are advocating for zombie ideas, 309 00:26:35.690 --> 00:26:42.690 ideas that have been slain by the voters and, frankly, even by Congress, and yet they walk 310 00:26:42.809 --> 00:26:43.330 among us. 311 00:26:43.330 --> 00:26:47.250 AMY GOODMAN: Let’s go to another clip, this one uploaded to YouTube by a new group called 312 00:26:47.250 --> 00:26:52.910 "The Can Kicks Back." It features Alan Simpson addressing, quote, "the youth." 313 00:26:52.910 --> 00:26:59.130 SEN. ALAN SIMPSON: Stop Instagraming your breakfast and tweeting your first-world problems 314 00:26:59.130 --> 00:27:06.130 and getting on YouTube so you can see "Gangnam Style." And start using those precious social 315 00:27:09.790 --> 00:27:16.230 media skills and go out and sign people up on this, baby. Three people a week. Let it 316 00:27:16.230 --> 00:27:21.010 grow. And don’t forget: Take part or get taken apart. Boy, these old coots will clean 317 00:27:21.010 --> 00:27:22.990 out the Treasury before you get there. 318 00:27:22.990 --> 00:27:26.110 AMY GOODMAN: That was Alan Simpson of the Simpson-Bowles Commission. Lisa Graves, what 319 00:27:26.110 --> 00:27:28.020 is this Can Kicks Back group? 320 00:27:28.020 --> 00:27:31.870 LISA GRAVES: Well, it’s interesting. Simpson has talked about the Can Kicks Back as if 321 00:27:31.870 --> 00:27:36.679 it was some sort of grassroots operation that emerged on college campuses nationwide. In 322 00:27:36.679 --> 00:27:43.679 fact, it operates out of the Fix the Debt offices in Washington, and it is another arm 323 00:27:44.020 --> 00:27:47.940 of their operation. Internally, in essence, they call it the "millennial" part of their 324 00:27:47.940 --> 00:27:54.520 operation. This is a well-funded, very slick, glossy campaign with T-shirts and videos, 325 00:27:54.520 --> 00:27:59.520 featuring people like Simpson and others, claiming that your grandparents are ruining 326 00:27:59.520 --> 00:28:05.309 your future. It’s quite an audacious set of claims by these guys, especially when Social 327 00:28:05.309 --> 00:28:10.780 Security actually isn’t contributing to the debt currently and could easily be fixed 328 00:28:10.780 --> 00:28:16.429 20 years from now by cutting out the loophole for all—for Social Security taxes on income 329 00:28:16.429 --> 00:28:21.270 above $110,000. And so, it’s quite a scam. It’s a gimmick. It’s part of the gimmick 330 00:28:21.270 --> 00:28:25.880 of their campaign. And it’s something that I think people ought to be very wary of. 331 00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:31.090 AARON MATÉ: And quickly, John Nichols, the cuts are supposed to take effect on Friday. 332 00:28:31.090 --> 00:28:33.150 Their potential effect on working people? 333 00:28:33.150 --> 00:28:37.380 JOHN NICHOLS: Their potential effect on working people is severe. First off, there are the 334 00:28:37.380 --> 00:28:43.010 direct effects. You have an across-the-board austerity cut in federal programs, and that 335 00:28:43.010 --> 00:28:48.470 will have service impacts right away, things like flying, just traveling in this country. 336 00:28:48.470 --> 00:28:54.250 Also, there are very credible estimates that this will lead to at a base line of 700,000 337 00:28:54.250 --> 00:29:00.030 job losses. And so we’re talking, over the coming months, if this sequester goes forward, 338 00:29:00.030 --> 00:29:03.570 of a significant slowing of the U.S. economy. 339 00:29:03.570 --> 00:29:09.350 This is classic austerity: cuts at a time when the economy is weak, followed by job 340 00:29:09.350 --> 00:29:13.570 losses. And the tragedy of it, the really significant thing to be conscious of, is that 341 00:29:13.570 --> 00:29:19.990 Simpson and Bowles and Fix the Debt are waiting on the sidelines here to jump in and say, 342 00:29:19.990 --> 00:29:24.460 "Well, this is so disorderly. You know, we don’t want to have across-the-board cuts." 343 00:29:24.460 --> 00:29:30.330 And what they are really arguing for is a systematized austerity, one where you have 344 00:29:30.330 --> 00:29:36.510 very, very wealthy people deciding what sort of fixes we will have for our economy. And 345 00:29:36.510 --> 00:29:42.700 at the end of the day, invariably, the fix will be to lower their tax rates while at 346 00:29:42.700 --> 00:29:48.010 the same time taking deep cuts out of the earned benefit programs that Americans desperately 347 00:29:48.010 --> 00:29:48.260 need. 348 00:29:48.179 --> 00:29:51.090 AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to leave it there, but we’re going to continue to follow this, 349 00:29:51.090 --> 00:29:54.190 of course. John Nichols, political writer for The Nation; his latest piece [http://www.thenation.com/blog/167703/scott-walkers-austerity-agenda-losing] 350 00:29:54.190 --> 00:29:58.960 for The Nation is "The Austerity Agenda: An Electoral Loser." And thanks to Lisa Graves, 351 00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:02.880 executive director of the Center for Media and Democracy and editor of "Pete Peterson 352 00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:06.640 Pyramid," a new website [http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Portal:Fix_the_Debt] that connects the dots between billionaire 353 00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:13.640 Pete Peterson and the Campaign to Fix the Debt campaign. The website is PetersonPyramid.org 354 00:30:14.110 --> 00:30:14.360 [http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Portal:Fix_the_Debt]. 355 00:30:14.110 --> 00:30:18.830 This is Democracy Now! When we come back, we’ll be joined by the executive producer 356 00:30:18.830 --> 00:30:24.760 of a PBS documentary that is premiering tonight called Makers: Women Who Make America. Stay 357 00:30:24.760 --> 00:30:31.760 with us. AARON MATÉ: We turn now to a major new documentary that tells the story of how 358 00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:26.520 women have shaped the U.S. over the last 50 years through political and personal empowerment. 359 00:32:26.520 --> 00:32:32.070 It’s called Makers: Women Who Make America, and it premieres tonight in a three-hour special 360 00:32:32.070 --> 00:32:32.630 on PBS. 361 00:32:32.630 --> 00:32:38.090 PAT FOOTE: Every place I went for interviews, the only thing they wanted to know was: Can 362 00:32:38.090 --> 00:32:40.100 you type? GUIDANCE COUNSELOR: Your high score on the 363 00:32:40.100 --> 00:32:44.760 Scholastic Aptitude Test indicates that you can become a good secretary. 364 00:32:44.760 --> 00:32:51.309 GLORIA STEINEM: Landlords felt single women couldn’t earn enough to pay for the apartment. 365 00:32:51.309 --> 00:32:58.309 And if you could earn enough, you must be 366 00:33:03.970 --> 00:33:07.910 a hooker. MARLO THOMAS: It was like a tsunami. It was 367 00:33:07.910 --> 00:33:11.700 like something was boiling under the earth, and we could bring it up. 368 00:33:11.700 --> 00:33:18.700 ALIX KATES SHULMAN: It was as if a great floodlight had gone on, and it illuminated everything. 369 00:33:21.570 --> 00:33:27.799 BARBARA SMITH: We were so idealistic. We were so energetic. We were so in-your-face. And 370 00:33:27.799 --> 00:33:32.340 there were so many of us. UNIDENTIFIED: We had to change the system—everything 371 00:33:32.340 --> 00:33:36.710 in the workplace, everything in the political sphere, everything in the domestic sphere. 372 00:33:36.710 --> 00:33:41.280 GLORIA STEINEM: What we are talking about is a revolution and not a reform. 373 00:33:41.280 --> 00:33:46.280 AMY GOODMAN: That’s part of the trailer for Makers: Women Who Make America. The three-hour 374 00:33:46.280 --> 00:33:50.010 film about the women’s movement premieres tonight on PBS. And tonight we’re joined—right 375 00:33:50.010 --> 00:33:55.360 now we’re joined by the executive producer, Betsy West, veteran of ABC and CBS News, earned 376 00:33:55.360 --> 00:33:59.700 22 Emmy Awards for her works on, oh, programs like 60 Minutes. 377 00:33:59.700 --> 00:34:01.130 We welcome you to Democracy Now! 378 00:34:01.130 --> 00:34:02.370 BETSY WEST: Thank you so much, Amy, Aaron. 379 00:34:02.370 --> 00:34:04.000 AMY GOODMAN: So tell us about this project. 380 00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:09.889 BETSY WEST: Well, this project has been eight years in the making. When my partner, Dylan 381 00:34:09.889 --> 00:34:14.819 McGee, came to me, she had already been working on it for about a year. She had gone to Gloria 382 00:34:14.819 --> 00:34:19.099 Steinem and said, "Hey, I want to do a story about your life, a documentary about your 383 00:34:19.099 --> 00:34:23.760 life." And Gloria said, "Look, nobody has really done anything on the movement. Somebody 384 00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:29.940 needs to do the story of the women’s movement." So, Dylan set about looking into that. She 385 00:34:29.940 --> 00:34:34.530 came to me a year later. And I was kind of stunned that the story hadn’t been done, 386 00:34:34.530 --> 00:34:37.460 but in a way I was also happy, because it was an amazing opportunity. 387 00:34:37.460 --> 00:34:43.940 AMY GOODMAN: The stories that are told in this, talk about—share some of them. 388 00:34:43.940 --> 00:34:50.940 BETSY WEST: Well, you know, we really look at the whole—the movement, some of the well-known 389 00:34:51.649 --> 00:34:56.090 people, like Gloria Steinem, who of course was a major figure in the women’s movement, 390 00:34:56.090 --> 00:35:02.560 and some of the unknown stories. The coal miner, who was one of the first coal miners, 391 00:35:02.560 --> 00:35:07.740 and then she was subjected to sexual harassment by her boss, so she took her boss to court 392 00:35:07.740 --> 00:35:14.740 and fought a 13-year battle and won. The telephone operator, who in the '60s just—she was a 393 00:35:15.770 --> 00:35:21.040 switchboard operator, and she wanted to make a little more money, and so she tried to work 394 00:35:21.040 --> 00:35:24.910 on the equipment. And, of course, the argument was, oh, no, you know, women couldn't do that 395 00:35:24.910 --> 00:35:30.150 because couldn’t carry that heavy equipment, you know, could be as heavy as 30 pounds, 396 00:35:30.150 --> 00:35:34.600 when, of course, any woman who’s ever carried a baby could carry 30 pounds. So she fought 397 00:35:34.600 --> 00:35:38.859 a legal battle with the help of NOW. So, it’s a range of stories. 398 00:35:38.859 --> 00:35:44.990 We open—maybe this is the one you’re thinking about—we open with an amazing story of a 399 00:35:44.990 --> 00:35:48.940 woman who really wasn’t an avowed feminist. She was a runner, and she was a junior at 400 00:35:48.940 --> 00:35:49.750 Syracuse University. 401 00:35:49.750 --> 00:35:50.540 AMY GOODMAN: Let’s go— 402 00:35:50.540 --> 00:35:53.410 BETSY WEST: And yeah, her name is—I think where you’re coming into the clip. Her name 403 00:35:53.410 --> 00:35:58.740 was Kathrine Switzer, junior at Syracuse University. She decided to enter the Boston Marathon. 404 00:35:58.740 --> 00:36:01.950 AMY GOODMAN: The year was 1967. 405 00:36:01.950 --> 00:36:08.950 MERYL STREEP: The 1967 Boston Marathon was run in some of the worst conditions in race 406 00:36:10.210 --> 00:36:16.369 history. While most of the crowd was focused on the front of the pack, another runner was 407 00:36:16.369 --> 00:36:21.030 making a stir far behind. KATHRINE SWITZER: The idea of running long 408 00:36:21.030 --> 00:36:26.690 distance was always considered very questionable for women, because, you know, an arduous activity 409 00:36:26.690 --> 00:36:30.390 would mean that you’re going to get big legs and grow a mustache and hair on your 410 00:36:30.390 --> 00:36:36.980 chest, and your uterus was going to fall out. MERYL STREEP: In 1967, Kathrine Switzer was 411 00:36:36.980 --> 00:36:43.980 a junior at Syracuse University. Because Syracuse had no women’s track team, she began training 412 00:36:44.609 --> 00:36:49.380 with the manager of the men’s team, a part-time mailman named Arnie Briggs. 413 00:36:49.380 --> 00:36:55.060 KATHRINE SWITZER: It was Arnie who told me about the greatest day in his life every year, 414 00:36:55.060 --> 00:37:00.030 which was the Boston Marathon. And we were out running, and Arnie began telling me another 415 00:37:00.030 --> 00:37:04.630 Boston Marathon story. And I said, "Oh, Arnie, let’s just quit talking about the darn marathon 416 00:37:04.630 --> 00:37:11.630 and run it." And my dream then became to prove that I could run 26 miles, 385 yards. 417 00:37:12.820 --> 00:37:19.820 MERYL STREEP: For 70 years, the Boston Marathon had excluded women. But Switzer entered using 418 00:37:21.070 --> 00:37:27.530 just her initials. KATHRINE SWITZER: We walked to the start, 419 00:37:27.530 --> 00:37:34.530 and the gun went off, and down the street we went. So there we were, Arnie Briggs, the 420 00:37:36.150 --> 00:37:42.380 50-year-old mailman, and me, the 20-year-old college student, and my boyfriend, Tom Miller, 421 00:37:42.380 --> 00:37:49.380 an ex-All-America football player. When other runners would come by, they would say, "Oh, 422 00:37:49.700 --> 00:37:54.910 it’s a girl!" and they were so excited. And all of a sudden, the press truck is in 423 00:37:54.910 --> 00:37:59.840 front of us, and they’re taking, you know, pictures of us. On this truck was the race 424 00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:06.840 director, a feisty guy by the name of Jock Semple. He just stopped the bus, jumped off 425 00:38:07.490 --> 00:38:14.490 and ran after me. And he just grabbed me and screamed at me: "Get the hell out of my race, 426 00:38:15.500 --> 00:38:22.190 and give me those numbers!" He had the fiercest face of any guy I had ever seen. And all of 427 00:38:22.190 --> 00:38:28.830 a sudden, Big Tom, my boyfriend, came with a streak and gave Jock the most incredible 428 00:38:28.830 --> 00:38:34.710 cross body block and sent Jock flying right through the air and landed on the curb. And 429 00:38:34.710 --> 00:38:38.520 all of this happened in front of the press truck. The journalists got very aggressive: 430 00:38:38.520 --> 00:38:42.680 "What are you trying to prove?" You know, "Are you a suffragette? Are you a crusader?" 431 00:38:42.680 --> 00:38:45.520 whatever that is, you know. And I said, "What? I’m just trying to run." 432 00:38:45.520 --> 00:38:52.520 Then it got very quiet. Snow is coming down. Nobody is saying anything. And I turned to 433 00:38:53.100 --> 00:38:58.330 Arnie, and I said, "Arnie, I’m going to finish this race on my hands and my knees 434 00:38:58.330 --> 00:39:03.980 if I have to. If I don’t finish this race, then everybody is going to believe women can’t 435 00:39:03.980 --> 00:39:10.980 do it. I’ve got to finish this race." I finished that race in four hours, 20 minutes. 436 00:39:11.530 --> 00:39:17.609 It wasn’t until we stopped on the thruway to get an ice cream and some coffee that we 437 00:39:17.609 --> 00:39:23.240 see the newspapers and the coverage, front and back, of all the different editions with 438 00:39:23.240 --> 00:39:28.970 the pictures. And I realized that now this was very, very important, and this was going 439 00:39:28.970 --> 00:39:34.250 to change my life, and it was probably going to change women’s sports. There is an expression 440 00:39:34.250 --> 00:39:40.400 in a marathon that you do go through sort of a lifetime of experience. And I often say 441 00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:44.850 that I started the Boston Marathon as a girl, and I finished the Boston Marathon as a grown 442 00:39:44.850 --> 00:39:45.340 woman. 443 00:39:45.340 --> 00:39:52.220 AMY GOODMAN: That was Kathrine Switzer. The year was 1967, the first woman to run the 444 00:39:52.220 --> 00:39:58.160 Boston Marathon. And for radio listeners who didn’t see the photographs and the video 445 00:39:58.160 --> 00:40:02.790 of this, you’ve got to watch PBS tonight for the premiere of Makers. Betsy West? 446 00:40:02.790 --> 00:40:08.580 BETSY WEST: Yeah, I mean, it’s very rare that you actually get a photograph of discrimination 447 00:40:08.580 --> 00:40:13.670 in action, really. To have—to have that race official, who was just so angry that 448 00:40:13.670 --> 00:40:18.900 his rules had been violated, that he ran out there and attacked her, I mean, that’s unusual 449 00:40:18.900 --> 00:40:25.170 to actually see discrimination. You may recognize, by the way, the narrator; the voice of the 450 00:40:25.170 --> 00:40:28.160 narrator is the wonderful Meryl Streep, who’s the narrator of the documentary. 451 00:40:28.160 --> 00:40:32.940 AMY GOODMAN: I went to the opening of this at Lincoln Center last week, and you played 452 00:40:32.940 --> 00:40:39.070 the first hour there. In it, you had the coverage, the media’s coverage of women and the role 453 00:40:39.070 --> 00:40:40.290 the media has played. 454 00:40:40.290 --> 00:40:46.349 BETSY WEST: Yeah, I mean, it was surprising to me to see how dismissive the media was 455 00:40:46.349 --> 00:40:51.480 about the women’s movement. I mean, we interviewed Barbara Walters, who was so funny, and she 456 00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:57.940 had really fought her way into the boys’ club. She, at one point, wrote a memo to her 457 00:40:57.940 --> 00:41:02.480 boss at NBC News as the women’s movement was heating up, and she said, "Hey, let’s 458 00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:05.890 do a story on the women’s—how about doing a story on the women’s movement?" Her memo 459 00:41:05.890 --> 00:41:12.890 came back to her: "Not enough interest." I mean, there’s example after example in the 460 00:41:12.990 --> 00:41:19.330 documentary of the kind of dismissive tone and coverage of the movement. I don’t think 461 00:41:19.330 --> 00:41:26.220 that the media really understood what was going on in the mid to late ’60s with women 462 00:41:26.220 --> 00:41:31.030 from all walks of life who were kind of fed up with the restrictions that they were facing. 463 00:41:31.030 --> 00:41:36.670 AARON MATÉ: You have a section in the movie where you talk about women of color and, of 464 00:41:36.670 --> 00:41:40.109 course, the criticisms that second-wave feminism was ignoring their concerns. 465 00:41:40.109 --> 00:41:40.410 BETSY WEST: Yes. 466 00:41:40.410 --> 00:41:42.630 AARON MATÉ: How did you broach that topic with your film? 467 00:41:42.630 --> 00:41:49.630 BETSY WEST: Well, we broached it directly. I mean, we really tried very hard to include 468 00:41:51.080 --> 00:41:58.080 this debate in the film and the fact that many African-American women, women of color, 469 00:41:58.510 --> 00:42:04.320 were working. Here were these, you know, middle-class white women saying, "Hey, we want to have 470 00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:09.170 careers. We want to have jobs," and women of color had been working for a long time. 471 00:42:09.170 --> 00:42:12.830 As Ruth Simmons, who was the president of Brown University, said to us, she said, "My 472 00:42:12.830 --> 00:42:18.859 dream when I was growing up was to work in an office, because everybody I knew, every 473 00:42:18.859 --> 00:42:25.859 woman I knew, was working as a maid." And so, that was a tension. But we also talked 474 00:42:27.050 --> 00:42:33.849 about how some of that tension was resolved as leaders like Gloria Steinem and others 475 00:42:33.849 --> 00:42:40.270 began to understand that the interests of black feminists were sometimes different than 476 00:42:40.270 --> 00:42:45.340 the interests of white feminists. They had different issues. So, we did address that. 477 00:42:45.340 --> 00:42:47.740 AMY GOODMAN: And, Betsy West, your own story as a media maker? 478 00:42:47.740 --> 00:42:53.490 BETSY WEST: Well, you know, I came into the business kind of in the wake of the movement. 479 00:42:53.490 --> 00:42:59.210 I lived through the women’s movement in high school and college, and then I realized 480 00:42:59.210 --> 00:43:06.210 that, in 1975, media companies were willing to consider women, because they kind of had 481 00:43:07.500 --> 00:43:11.990 to. They had no choice. They had been sued. There had been suits at The New York Times 482 00:43:11.990 --> 00:43:18.990 and at Newsweek. And so, suddenly they were actually open to women coming in. 483 00:43:19.070 --> 00:43:24.540 I think, as I went along, I would often be the first woman in the room. And, you know, 484 00:43:24.540 --> 00:43:30.869 looking back on it, I realize there was widespread sexual harassment and, you know, comments 485 00:43:30.869 --> 00:43:37.000 all the time, inappropriate behavior. I mean, I once had—for my birthday, I was very excited. 486 00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:42.099 I had been working at ABC Radio for about a year, and I was kind of—really wanted 487 00:43:42.099 --> 00:43:47.280 to be one of the guys, and I was very excited that someone had remembered my birthday. They 488 00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:52.530 brought in a cake. And as I got closer, I thought the shape of this cake looks really 489 00:43:52.530 --> 00:43:58.790 odd. And I won’t tell you exactly what it was, but it came from the erotic bakery, my 490 00:43:58.790 --> 00:44:02.990 cake. And then we were all just—you know, I was supposed to laugh and just joke about 491 00:44:02.990 --> 00:44:09.400 this. And as Gloria Steinem says in the documentary, we didn’t have a word for sexual harassment 492 00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:13.910 back then; it was just called "life." And, of course, as the women’s movement went 493 00:44:13.910 --> 00:44:18.400 along in the ’80s, then I think the understanding of that increased. 494 00:44:18.400 --> 00:44:25.400 AMY GOODMAN: Well, we’re going to link [http://www.makers.com/] to Makers at our website, democracynow.org. 495 00:44:26.359 --> 00:44:28.510 I was involved with the web aspect [http://on.aol.com/video/amy-goodman--journalist-517654864]. 496 00:44:28.510 --> 00:44:29.210 BETSY WEST: Yes. 497 00:44:29.210 --> 00:44:31.790 AMY GOODMAN: And it’s interesting, this AOL-PBS collaboration that you’ve done— 498 00:44:31.790 --> 00:44:32.490 BETSY WEST: Yes. 499 00:44:32.490 --> 00:44:35.970 AMY GOODMAN: —both what’s going to show tonight on PBS and then what you have on the 500 00:44:35.970 --> 00:44:36.410 website. 501 00:44:36.410 --> 00:44:42.510 BETSY WEST: Yes, it was the first time that AOL—that AOL and PBS had partnered on a 502 00:44:42.510 --> 00:44:49.470 project. And it’s been very exciting, because it has allowed us to not only do this great 503 00:44:49.470 --> 00:44:54.880 documentary that’s on tonight that we’re all very excited about, but also to have a 504 00:44:54.880 --> 00:45:01.880 huge platform of stories, like your story, Amy—I interviewed you—for Makers.com [http://www.makers.com/]. 505 00:45:04.609 --> 00:45:11.599 And so, we set about interviewing groundbreaking women, basically, and telling their stories 506 00:45:11.599 --> 00:45:18.550 in smaller chunks—two, three, four minutes—which really is the way people are looking at video 507 00:45:18.550 --> 00:45:22.859 these days often. And we think it’s also going to be great for schools, for curriculum, 508 00:45:22.859 --> 00:45:26.450 that they’re going to be able to see these stories. And that was made possible by this 509 00:45:26.450 --> 00:45:27.750 partnership with AOL and PBS. 510 00:45:27.750 --> 00:45:31.680 AMY GOODMAN: And it’s particularly exciting for us because it’s our 17th anniversary 511 00:45:31.680 --> 00:45:38.680 at Democracy Now! So check it all out at democracynow.org. We link to the AOL-PBS web platform [http://www.makers.com/]. 512 00:45:41.320 --> 00:45:46.450 And also check out the documentary tonight on PBS as it premiers. It’s called Makers: 513 00:45:46.450 --> 00:45:50.099 Women Who Make America. Betsy West, executive producer. 514 00:45:50.099 --> 00:45:53.290 This is Democracy Now! When we come back, we’re going to look at another film, but 515 00:45:53.290 --> 00:45:56.750 not just a film. We’re going to the Middle East to find out what’s happening in the 516 00:45:56.750 --> 00:46:03.750 West Bank. Stay with us. AARON MATÉ: The death of a Palestinian prisoner in Israeli 517 00:47:10.790 --> 00:47:16.790 custody has sparked new protests in the occupied West Bank and even talk of a third intifada. 518 00:47:16.790 --> 00:47:21.859 The Israeli government claims the prisoner, Arafat Jaradat, died of a heart attack, but 519 00:47:21.859 --> 00:47:26.820 Palestinians say he succumbed to wounds sustained during a brutal torture. At a news conference 520 00:47:26.820 --> 00:47:33.080 in Ramallah, the Palestinian Authority minister for prisoner affairs said Israel is responsible 521 00:47:33.080 --> 00:47:35.050 for Jaradat’s death. 522 00:47:35.050 --> 00:47:42.000 ISSA QARAQEA: [translated] There were visible marks in the autopsy that made it clear that 523 00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:49.000 the detainee Arafat Jaradat was badly tortured, which caused his immediate death. Israel bears 524 00:47:49.420 --> 00:47:52.550 responsibility for killing him during the interrogation. 525 00:47:52.550 --> 00:47:57.780 AARON MATÉ: Arafat Jaradat had been arrested for throwing rocks at Israeli settlers. 526 00:47:57.780 --> 00:48:03.400 Well, on Monday, thousands turned out as he was laid to rest in his home village of Sair. 527 00:48:03.400 --> 00:48:07.720 More than a dozen Palestinians were reportedly wounded in the ensuing clashes with Israeli 528 00:48:07.720 --> 00:48:09.589 soldiers across the West Bank. 529 00:48:09.589 --> 00:48:14.490 Jaradat’s death comes amidst a sustained campaign over the plight of more than 4,500 530 00:48:14.490 --> 00:48:20.160 Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails. Around 3,000 Palestinian prisoners recently refused 531 00:48:20.160 --> 00:48:25.690 to eat meals in solidarity with five hunger-striking detainees. Protests in support of the prisoners 532 00:48:25.690 --> 00:48:30.830 have led to several clashes with Israeli troops over the past week. In the face of the growing 533 00:48:30.830 --> 00:48:36.770 outrage and with President Obama set to visit the region next month, Israel has asked the 534 00:48:36.770 --> 00:48:39.839 Palestinian Authority to contain the protests. 535 00:48:39.839 --> 00:48:45.359 The conditions on the ground recall those that sparked the First Intifada in 1987, reviving 536 00:48:45.359 --> 00:48:49.810 speculation that we are potentially witnessing the dawn of a third uprising against Israeli 537 00:48:49.810 --> 00:48:50.060 occupation. 538 00:48:50.040 --> 00:48:53.900 AMY GOODMAN: Well, we’re going to turn now to a new documentary about a Palestinian and 539 00:48:53.900 --> 00:48:58.369 an Israeli who were once dedicated fighters for their respective causes but have since 540 00:48:58.369 --> 00:49:03.260 renounced violence and become leading voices for peace. Both of the men, Bassam Aramin 541 00:49:03.260 --> 00:49:09.820 and Rami Elhanan, came face-to-face with the price of war when their young daughters were 542 00:49:09.820 --> 00:49:14.720 killed, one by Israeli border police and the other by a Palestinian suicide bomber. The 543 00:49:14.720 --> 00:49:18.830 film is called Within the Eye of the Storm. It chronicles these two men’s personal stories 544 00:49:18.830 --> 00:49:22.480 and their unlikely friendship. This is a clip from the film. 545 00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:29.480 RAMI ELHANAN: [translated] On the 4th of September, 1997, two Palestinian terrorists blew themselves 546 00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:36.890 up. They killed five people that day. One of them was my daughter, Smadar. 547 00:49:36.890 --> 00:49:43.890 BASSAM ARAMIN: [translated] I got a call from my eldest daughter, Arin. She was yelling, 548 00:49:44.589 --> 00:49:51.589 "Abir, Abir, Daddy! She was shot in the head by soldiers, and she is wounded." I was in 549 00:49:52.359 --> 00:49:59.359 an Israeli prison for seven years when I was 17. I believed in eliminating the other side, 550 00:49:59.369 --> 00:50:04.160 which I didn’t even know. RAMI ELHANAN: [translated] I never gave a 551 00:50:04.160 --> 00:50:07.260 thought to the other side. I didn’t consider that another side existed. I went through 552 00:50:07.260 --> 00:50:07.980 a process. 553 00:50:07.980 --> 00:50:12.119 AMY GOODMAN: A clip from the trailer of the new documentary, Within the Eye of the Storm. 554 00:50:12.119 --> 00:50:16.730 For more, we go to Washington, D.C., where we’re joined by Bassam Aramin and Rami Elhanan. 555 00:50:16.730 --> 00:50:21.140 Bassam, a former Fatah fighter, now a peace activist with Combatants for Peace, spent 556 00:50:21.140 --> 00:50:27.130 seven years in an Israeli prison. His 10-year-old daughter Abir was killed January 16, 2007, 557 00:50:27.130 --> 00:50:31.770 when an Israeli border police chief fired rubber bullets in a school zone. And Rami 558 00:50:31.770 --> 00:50:35.970 is a former Israeli reserve soldier turned peace activist, leading member of Parents 559 00:50:35.970 --> 00:50:41.070 Circle-Families Forum, an organization for those who lost children in conflict but nevertheless 560 00:50:41.070 --> 00:50:48.070 want peace. His 14-year-old daughter Smadar was killed in a suicide bombing in Jerusalem 561 00:50:48.099 --> 00:50:49.650 in September of ’97. 562 00:50:49.650 --> 00:50:55.420 Bassam Aramin and Rami Elhanan, welcome to Democracy Now! You come at a very difficult 563 00:50:55.420 --> 00:51:01.790 time, if there is any time that isn’t difficult in the Occupied Territories. Bassam, what 564 00:51:01.790 --> 00:51:07.339 message do you have for President Obama as he is about to leave for Israel? 565 00:51:07.339 --> 00:51:14.339 BASSAM ARAMIN: Yes, we have actually a hope that Mr. Obama will make a difference this 566 00:51:16.150 --> 00:51:23.150 time, not to wait for another four years. I ask him to stop the unconditional support 567 00:51:23.580 --> 00:51:30.580 for one side against the other, because it doesn’t help us. We will continue fight 568 00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:40.119 each other because of this policy, so please be objective, and be pro-Palestine-and-Israel, 569 00:51:41.530 --> 00:51:43.400 and be pro-peace. 570 00:51:43.400 --> 00:51:50.400 AARON MATÉ: Bassam, we said at the top that there’s talk of this starting a third intifada. 571 00:51:50.560 --> 00:51:52.150 Do you think that’s accurate? 572 00:51:52.150 --> 00:51:59.150 BASSAM ARAMIN: You know, actually, since like many months, the situation in Palestine is 573 00:52:00.390 --> 00:52:07.390 very bad. The behavior of the Israeli occupation became more aggressive. The killing of Arafat 574 00:52:09.560 --> 00:52:16.270 Jaradat, who is from my village, it’s too much. It’s too much, actually. The Palestinian 575 00:52:16.270 --> 00:52:22.670 people have no hope. They cannot continue living under this brutal occupation, by this 576 00:52:22.670 --> 00:52:29.670 way, without any hope. And we always actually call for the third intifada, which must be 577 00:52:30.230 --> 00:52:37.000 a different one. We call for a Palestinian-Israeli intifada against our common enemy: the Israeli 578 00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:43.250 occupation. We must join forces, Israelis and Palestinians, to end this occupation by 579 00:52:43.250 --> 00:52:46.990 nonviolent intifada, which must be started. 580 00:52:46.990 --> 00:52:53.510 AMY GOODMAN: Rami Elhanan, you lost your daughter, as did Bassam. Do you share Bassam’s view 581 00:52:53.510 --> 00:52:57.460 on this? What would an Israeli-Palestinian intifada look like? 582 00:52:57.460 --> 00:53:04.460 RAMI ELHANAN: Well, certainly I do, with all my heart. I think we both paid the highest 583 00:53:05.670 --> 00:53:12.270 price as an outcome of this outrageous occupation, the last occupation that exists on earth. 584 00:53:12.270 --> 00:53:19.270 And I think we need to do everything in our power to prevent more losses from more innocent 585 00:53:19.490 --> 00:53:25.990 people. And the only way to do it is by joint forces, Israeli and Palestinians, peace seekers, 586 00:53:25.990 --> 00:53:30.830 who will fight this horrible occupation with nonviolent resistance. 587 00:53:30.830 --> 00:53:37.050 AARON MATÉ: Rami, if you could tell us your story, what you’ve done in Israel since 588 00:53:37.050 --> 00:53:38.720 your daughter was killed? 589 00:53:38.720 --> 00:53:45.720 RAMI ELHANAN: Well, for the last 15 years, I devoted my life to go everywhere possible, 590 00:53:46.099 --> 00:53:52.339 to talk to anyone possible, to convey the message that we are not doomed. This is not 591 00:53:52.339 --> 00:53:58.080 our destiny to keep on killing each other forever, and we can change this endless cycle 592 00:53:58.080 --> 00:54:02.570 of violence and revenge and retaliation. The only way to do it is simply by talking to 593 00:54:02.570 --> 00:54:03.150 each other. 594 00:54:03.150 --> 00:54:07.710 AMY GOODMAN: How did your daughter die? You, yourself, are a former Israeli soldier. Talk 595 00:54:07.710 --> 00:54:10.410 about what happened. It was 1997? 596 00:54:10.410 --> 00:54:17.410 RAMI ELHANAN: It was the 4th of September, 1997, Thursday afternoon. Two Palestinian 597 00:54:20.450 --> 00:54:26.770 suicide bombers blew themselves up in Ben Yehuda Street in Jerusalem, killing five people, 598 00:54:26.770 --> 00:54:31.980 including three little girls. One of them was my 14-years-old Smadar. It was the first 599 00:54:31.980 --> 00:54:38.980 day of school. And it changed my life and blew up the bubble that I was living in. 600 00:54:41.330 --> 00:54:45.170 AARON MATÉ: And talk about what you’ve done. You’ve gone and you’ve spoken to 601 00:54:45.170 --> 00:54:50.589 many people. And actually, in this film there’s clips of people confronting you with hostility 602 00:54:50.589 --> 00:54:51.750 about your activism. 603 00:54:51.750 --> 00:54:56.010 RAMI ELHANAN: Well, that’s part of the game. I mean, this is the price you have to pay 604 00:54:56.010 --> 00:55:03.010 if you are willing to talk to your society, which turns you a cold soldier and try to 605 00:55:04.770 --> 00:55:11.770 ignore their reality. And your role in this equation is to put cracks in the wall of hatred 606 00:55:13.980 --> 00:55:18.869 and fear that divide our two nations, and sometimes it can be very difficult. I’m 607 00:55:18.869 --> 00:55:24.660 doing it for the last 14 years, and it gives me a reason to get out of bed in the morning. 608 00:55:24.660 --> 00:55:28.910 AMY GOODMAN: Bassam Aramin, tell us about your daughter. When was she killed, and how 609 00:55:28.910 --> 00:55:29.820 did she die? 610 00:55:29.820 --> 00:55:36.820 BASSAM ARAMIN: She was killed in the 16th of January, 2007, in front of her school 9:30 611 00:55:37.450 --> 00:55:44.450 in the morning by an Israeli border police in Israel who shot and killed her in her head 612 00:55:45.940 --> 00:55:52.940 from the back from a distance of 15 to 20 meters, without anything. Just it was one 613 00:55:58.270 --> 00:56:05.270 bullet, and Abir fell down and died. She was only 10 years old. She wasn’t Fatah member 614 00:56:05.530 --> 00:56:12.530 or Hamas member. There were no demonstrations or violence or intifada. And she passed away 615 00:56:13.980 --> 00:56:16.780 after two days in Hadassah Hospital. 616 00:56:16.780 --> 00:56:23.780 Again, this was like easy to go to the easy way, but we decide not to revenge, because 617 00:56:25.170 --> 00:56:31.000 we need to break this circle of violence and blood. And I have another five kids, and I 618 00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:36.990 have Israeli friends who have kids. We need to protect them. And I always said that they 619 00:56:36.990 --> 00:56:43.230 are all our kids, and they are all our children. I didn’t find the answer to kill an Israeli 620 00:56:43.230 --> 00:56:48.300 daughter or even to kill the Israeli killer, because he’s a teenager, and I consider 621 00:56:48.300 --> 00:56:54.609 him a victim to the past or to the memory or to the education or to the situation. We 622 00:56:54.609 --> 00:57:01.609 are normal people living in unnormal situations, so unfortunately sometimes our behavior became 623 00:57:01.619 --> 00:57:02.369 very brutal. 624 00:57:02.369 --> 00:57:07.170 AARON MATÉ: Bassam, you won a judgment from an Israeli court over the killing of your 625 00:57:07.170 --> 00:57:11.829 daughter, which is quite rare. Can you talk about the case? And are you satisfied with 626 00:57:11.829 --> 00:57:13.380 how it was resolved? 627 00:57:13.380 --> 00:57:20.380 BASSAM ARAMIN: Yeah, actually, after four years after they denied that the Israeli soldiers 628 00:57:22.849 --> 00:57:28.589 was there at all in the town, then after four-and-a-half years I need to prove that my daughter had 629 00:57:28.589 --> 00:57:35.589 been killed with a rubber bullet. And it was the first time that I win the case, the civil 630 00:57:35.829 --> 00:57:42.829 case. But my goal was to bring this hero, victim or whatever, this soldier, to the trial, 631 00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:50.930 and the Supreme Court decided that after four-and-a-half years, which is a long time, there’s no 632 00:57:50.930 --> 00:57:57.930 evidence, so they closed the file for the fourth time. Unfortunately, they have not—I 633 00:57:58.760 --> 00:58:04.310 have nothing to do in Israel, but I always said I have the world, and I believe in justice. 634 00:58:04.310 --> 00:58:11.310 And all the justice lovers around the world must support me, including many, many hundreds 635 00:58:11.560 --> 00:58:18.190 of my Israeli brothers and Jewish brothers around the world. And all the human beings 636 00:58:18.190 --> 00:58:23.820 around the world must support me because I ask to bring this man to justice, because 637 00:58:23.820 --> 00:58:29.410 he killing a daughter, a 10-years-old daughter, not because he’s an Israeli and I’m a 638 00:58:29.410 --> 00:58:34.130 Palestinian, because my child wasn’t a fighter, and she had nothing to do with this conflict. 639 00:58:34.130 --> 00:58:37.500 AMY GOODMAN: We will leave it there, and I want to thank you both for being with us, 640 00:58:37.500 --> 00:58:43.869 Bassam Aramin and Rami Elhanan—Bassam, a former Fatah fighter; Rami, a former Israeli 641 00:58:43.869 --> 00:58:50.440 soldier. Both lost their daughters. This is Democracy Now! We will link to your website 642 00:58:50.440 --> 00:58:54.280 [http://withineyeofstorm.com/]. Within the Eye of the Storm is their new film.