WEBVTT 1 00:00:15.749 --> 00:00:19.759 From Pacifica, this is Democracy Now! 2 00:00:19.759 --> 00:00:26.070 If you guys can see this, I don’t know how to explain it, how to describe it. This is—this 3 00:00:26.070 --> 00:00:33.070 is terrible. This is war-zone terrible. This school is completely gone. 4 00:00:34.260 --> 00:00:41.260 At least 91 people, including 20 children, are feared dead after a massive tornado hits 5 00:00:41.350 --> 00:00:45.960 Moore, Oklahoma. We’ll get a report on the ground and speak to meteorologist Jeff Masters 6 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:47.570 of the Weather Underground. 7 00:00:47.570 --> 00:00:51.230 Then, recession hurts, but austerity kills. 8 00:00:51.230 --> 00:00:58.230 Across Europe we see rising suicides concentrated in the countries that have cut the most public 9 00:00:58.290 --> 00:01:03.969 sector jobs. And these are just a few of the many harms we see from austerity. 10 00:01:03.969 --> 00:01:10.539 The Body Economic: Why Austerity Kills—Recessions, Budget Battles and the Politics of Life and 11 00:01:10.539 --> 00:01:14.450 Death. We’ll speak with professors from Oxford and Stanford on their startling new 12 00:01:14.450 --> 00:01:18.140 book on how austerity measures are causing a global health crisis. 13 00:01:18.140 --> 00:01:24.490 All that and more, coming up. 14 00:01:24.490 --> 00:01:29.640 Welcome to Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. 15 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:34.729 The estimated death toll from Monday’s massive tornado in Oklahoma stands at more than 91 16 00:01:34.729 --> 00:01:39.360 people, including 20 children. Some 200 people were also wounded. [ Editor’s Note: After 17 00:01:39.360 --> 00:01:39.610 broadcast, the Oklahoma medical examiner revised the death toll down to 24, including 7 children.] 18 00:01:39.549 --> 00:01:45.939 The storm tore through the Oklahoma City suburb of Moore, leveling two elementary schools, 19 00:01:45.939 --> 00:01:51.409 a hospital and scores of homes. Rescue crews continue to dig through the rubble in a bid 20 00:01:51.409 --> 00:01:57.970 to find survivors. One witness said the tornado was so powerful it tore open a cellar door. 21 00:01:57.970 --> 00:02:02.100 Ricky Stover: "We thought we died, because we were inside the cellar door, we locked 22 00:02:02.100 --> 00:02:08.849 the cellar door once we saw it coming, it got louder, and next thing you know, you see 23 00:02:08.849 --> 00:02:14.049 the latch coming undone, and we couldn’t reach for it, and it ripped open the door. 24 00:02:14.049 --> 00:02:18.920 And just glass and debris started slamming on us. And we thought something — we thought 25 00:02:18.920 --> 00:02:21.340 we were dead, to be honest." 26 00:02:21.340 --> 00:02:25.870 Monday’s storm marked the deadliest tornado to hit the United States since 161 people 27 00:02:25.870 --> 00:02:30.120 were killed in Joplin, Missouri, two years ago. President Obama has declared a major 28 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:36.430 disaster area in Oklahoma, ordering the deployment of federal aid. 29 00:02:36.430 --> 00:02:43.060 Guatemala’s top court has overturned the genocide conviction of former U.S.-backed 30 00:02:43.060 --> 00:02:48.090 military dictator Efraín Ríos Montt. In a historic verdict earlier this month, Ríos 31 00:02:48.090 --> 00:02:53.050 Montt was sentenced to 80 years for genocide and crimes against humanity in the killings 32 00:02:53.050 --> 00:02:59.489 of more than 1,700 Ixil Mayan people in the early 1980s. But in a 3-to-2 ruling Monday, 33 00:02:59.489 --> 00:03:05.269 the Guatemalan constitutional court dismissed all the case’s proceedings dating back to 34 00:03:05.269 --> 00:03:10.390 a month ago. It was then that the court first annulled the case amidst a dispute between 35 00:03:10.390 --> 00:03:15.319 judges over jurisdiction. In the run-up to its latest decision to overturn, the court 36 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:20.150 had come under heavy lobbying from Ríos Montt supporters, including Guatemala’s powerful 37 00:03:20.150 --> 00:03:26.330 business association, CACIF. Ríos Montt remains in a military hospital where he was admitted 38 00:03:26.330 --> 00:03:31.890 last week. His legal status is now up in the air. He will likely be released into house 39 00:03:31.890 --> 00:03:36.310 arrest, and it is unclear when or if he will return to court. 40 00:03:36.310 --> 00:03:40.709 Dozens of people rallied outside the Justice Department in Washington, D.C., on Monday 41 00:03:40.709 --> 00:03:46.950 to protest the government’s failure to prosecute big banks for wronging millions of homeowners. 42 00:03:46.950 --> 00:03:51.269 Groups including Occupy Our Homes and the Home Defenders League organized the rally 43 00:03:51.269 --> 00:03:57.049 to demand punishment for bank misdeeds ranging from predatory lending to wrongful foreclosures. 44 00:03:57.049 --> 00:04:03.030 A group of demonstrators with underwater mortgages helped barricade the Justice Department building’s 45 00:04:03.030 --> 00:04:07.810 front doors. At least 17 demonstrators were arrested, but some managed to spend the night 46 00:04:07.810 --> 00:04:11.409 outside to continue their protest today. 47 00:04:11.409 --> 00:04:17.829 New figures show major U.S. banks are withholding billions of dollars in money they owe to victimized 48 00:04:17.829 --> 00:04:23.849 homeowners. According to The Washington Post, less than half of the $5.7 billion that banks 49 00:04:23.849 --> 00:04:28.710 owe from nearly 30 government-brokered settlements has been paid out. 50 00:04:28.710 --> 00:04:34.340 The CIA is reportedly planning on gradually shifting control of its drone program to the 51 00:04:34.340 --> 00:04:39.520 Pentagon. Citing government sources, Reuters says the shift will occur in stages with the 52 00:04:39.520 --> 00:04:45.030 CIA continuing to carry out strikes in Pakistan. President Obama is expected to discuss the 53 00:04:45.030 --> 00:04:49.560 drone program and other "counterterrorism" efforts in a speech on Thursday. 54 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:54.080 The White House is defending its latest publicly known case of targeting a journalist. The 55 00:04:54.080 --> 00:04:59.150 Justice Department tracked Fox News reporter James Rosen’s phone records and State Department 56 00:04:59.150 --> 00:05:04.600 visits, and even received a search warrant to read his personal emails. Rosen was investigated 57 00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:11.150 for obtaining details of a secret government report in 2009 on North Korea. The report 58 00:05:11.150 --> 00:05:16.590 warned the North Korean regime would likely respond with more nuclear tests if the U.S. 59 00:05:16.590 --> 00:05:21.139 managed to win additional U.N. sanctions. The government has named Rosen a potential 60 00:05:21.139 --> 00:05:27.690 "aider, abettor and/or co-conspirator" in its case against Rosen’s alleged source, 61 00:05:27.690 --> 00:05:32.590 State Department security adviser Stephen Jin-Woo Kim. On Monday, White House Press 62 00:05:32.590 --> 00:05:37.280 Secretary Jay Carney declined to comment on the Rosen case directly, but said President 63 00:05:37.280 --> 00:05:40.120 Obama stands behind efforts to crack down on leaks. 64 00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:43.539 White House Press Secretary Jay Carney: "He is a strong defender of the First Amendment 65 00:05:43.539 --> 00:05:49.190 and a firm believer in the need for the press to be able to conduct investigative reporting 66 00:05:49.190 --> 00:05:55.199 and facilitate a free flow of information. He is also, as a citizen and as commander-in-chief, 67 00:05:55.199 --> 00:05:59.130 insistent that we protect our secrets, that we protect classified information, and that 68 00:05:59.130 --> 00:06:03.280 leaks — that we take very seriously the leaks of classified information because leaks 69 00:06:03.280 --> 00:06:08.970 can endanger the lives of men and women in uniform and other Americans serving overseas 70 00:06:08.970 --> 00:06:09.900 for our country." 71 00:06:09.900 --> 00:06:15.509 The James Rosen case emerged just days after it was revealed the Justice Department seized 72 00:06:15.509 --> 00:06:22.180 the work, home and cellphone records of almost 100 AP reporters and editors without a court 73 00:06:22.180 --> 00:06:23.490 warrant. 74 00:06:23.490 --> 00:06:29.690 President Obama has hosted the head of the Burmese military junta in a historic visit. 75 00:06:29.690 --> 00:06:34.949 Thein Sein is the first Burmese leader to visit the White House in nearly 50 years. 76 00:06:34.949 --> 00:06:40.030 His trip follows Obama’s visit to Burma late last year as part of U.S. efforts to 77 00:06:40.030 --> 00:06:45.639 ease sanctions in return for political reform. Obama said Monday’s talks yielded progress 78 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:50.830 on the release of Burmese political prisoners and stopping recent anti-Muslim violence. 79 00:06:50.830 --> 00:06:57.830 President Obama: "President Thein shared with me the manner in which he intends to continue 80 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:06.160 to move forward on releasing more political prisoners, making sure that the government 81 00:07:07.860 --> 00:07:14.800 of Myanmar institutionalizes some of the political reforms that have already taken place, how 82 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:21.800 rule of law is codified so that it continues into the future, and the process whereby these 83 00:07:23.380 --> 00:07:30.380 ethnic conflicts that have existed are resolved, not simply by a ceasefire but an actual incorporation 84 00:07:31.430 --> 00:07:33.800 of all these communities into the political process." 85 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:38.660 A new survey of the scientific community has found near unanimous agreement that human 86 00:07:38.660 --> 00:07:44.449 activity causes climate change. Citing the work of more than 29,000 scientists in peer-reviewed 87 00:07:44.449 --> 00:07:50.800 journals, the survey’s authors say the consensus on human-caused global warming stands at 97.1 88 00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:55.870 percent. Addressing the efforts by industrial polluters to fund climate skepticism, the 89 00:07:55.870 --> 00:08:02.330 study’s lead author, John Cook, said: "There is a gaping chasm between the actual consensus 90 00:08:02.330 --> 00:08:03.710 and the public perception." 91 00:08:03.710 --> 00:08:08.550 The United Nations has opened its annual two-week gathering on the plight of indigenous people 92 00:08:08.550 --> 00:08:14.629 worldwide. The chair of the 12th Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues, Paul Sena of Kenya, 93 00:08:14.629 --> 00:08:15.830 helped kick off the proceedings. 94 00:08:15.830 --> 00:08:19.720 Paul Kanyinke Sena: "What we are doing here is not actually fighting our governments, 95 00:08:19.720 --> 00:08:26.199 because in Africa, for example, there is always the misconception that we are here to complain, 96 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:30.610 complain, complain. No, we didn’t come to complain, but we are trying to look for solutions 97 00:08:30.610 --> 00:08:36.099 that can also — supportive in those governments in trying to address issues of concern to 98 00:08:36.099 --> 00:08:37.219 indigenous peoples." 99 00:08:37.219 --> 00:08:42.180 A new study shows more people are living in poverty in U.S. suburbs than in urban areas. 100 00:08:42.180 --> 00:08:46.310 According to the Brookings Institution, the number of low-income residents in the suburbs 101 00:08:46.310 --> 00:08:53.310 rose 64 percent to 16.4 million from 2000 to 2011. Urban areas saw an increase of 29 102 00:08:54.680 --> 00:08:58.089 percent to 13.4 million during the same period. 103 00:08:58.089 --> 00:09:04.769 The tech giant Apple is being accused of a massive tax-dodging scheme that saved it tens 104 00:09:04.769 --> 00:09:10.920 of billions of dollars. A bipartisan Senate report says Apple avoided paying U.S. taxes 105 00:09:10.920 --> 00:09:17.920 on $44 billion in income between 2009 and 2012. The report describes a massive and unprecedented 106 00:09:19.160 --> 00:09:25.200 web of affiliates spanning several continents. The subsidiaries were used to hide the company’s 107 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:29.660 profits even in countries where Apple had no employees. 108 00:09:29.660 --> 00:09:33.370 Nearly two dozen people have been arrested at Chicago’s City Hall in a protest against 109 00:09:33.370 --> 00:09:38.680 school closures. The demonstrators staged a sit-in to denounce Mayor Rahm Emanuel’s 110 00:09:38.680 --> 00:09:45.190 plan to close 54 public schools, mostly in African-American neighborhoods. The sit-in 111 00:09:45.190 --> 00:09:50.029 followed a march of hundreds of people in downtown Chicago. The board of the Chicago 112 00:09:50.029 --> 00:09:54.810 Public Schools is slated to vote on the closure plan Wednesday. 113 00:09:54.810 --> 00:10:00.120 A class action trial challenging the New York City Police Department’s controversial "stop-and-frisk" 114 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:05.430 policy has concluded after two months. Plaintiffs in the case argued the NYPD’s practices 115 00:10:05.430 --> 00:10:11.070 are unconstitutional and unfairly target people of color. Nearly 90 percent of people stopped 116 00:10:11.070 --> 00:10:17.910 by police in 2011 were black and Latino, and nine out of 10 were neither arrested nor ticketed. 117 00:10:17.910 --> 00:10:23.490 On Monday, U.S. District Judge Shira Scheindlin expressed interest in ordering police to wear 118 00:10:23.490 --> 00:10:29.450 cameras so their actions can be fully documented. Judge Scheindlin also criticized the effectiveness 119 00:10:29.450 --> 00:10:35.269 of "stop and frisk," telling city attorneys: "You reasonably suspect something and you’re 120 00:10:35.269 --> 00:10:41.320 wrong 90 percent of the time." A ruling is expected in the coming months. 121 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:46.180 More than 1,000 people marched in New York City’s West Village Monday to denounce anti-gay 122 00:10:46.180 --> 00:10:51.750 violence following an apparent hate crime that left one man dead. Mark Carson, a 32-year-old 123 00:10:51.750 --> 00:10:56.850 gay African American, was with a male companion when a gunman confronted the pair and followed 124 00:10:56.850 --> 00:11:02.079 them for several blocks. The gunman yelled an anti-gay remark before opening fire. The 125 00:11:02.079 --> 00:11:07.810 suspect, Elliot Morales, has been detained and charged. On Monday, marchers honored Carson’s 126 00:11:07.810 --> 00:11:13.540 life by marching from the LGBT Community Center to the site where he was killed. 127 00:11:13.540 --> 00:11:17.810 And those are some of the headlines this is Democracy Now, Democracynow.org, the War and 128 00:11:17.810 --> 00:11:19.500 Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. 129 00:11:19.500 --> 00:11:24.480 AMY GOODMAN: We begin today’s show in Oklahoma, where at least 91 people, including 20 children, 130 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:30.029 are feared dead after a massive tornado tore though the Oklahoma City suburb of Moore. 131 00:11:30.029 --> 00:11:34.630 The storm leveled two elementary schools, a hospital and hundreds of homes. The Oklahoma 132 00:11:34.630 --> 00:11:39.950 medical examiner has already confirmed 51 dead and has been told by emergency services 133 00:11:39.950 --> 00:11:46.370 to expect 40 more bodies found in the debris. Area hospitals said at least 60 of the 240 134 00:11:46.370 --> 00:11:48.010 people injured were children. 135 00:11:48.010 --> 00:11:53.519 Some of the first footage of the devastation was captured by a news helicopter operated 136 00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:55.279 by the TV station KFOR. 137 00:11:55.279 --> 00:11:57.850 JON WELSH: If you guys can see this, I don’t know how to explain it, how to describe it. 138 00:11:57.850 --> 00:12:04.850 This is—this is terrible. This is war-zone terrible. This school is completely gone. 139 00:12:06.089 --> 00:12:13.089 If you guys are still with me here, this damage path is right there on the top right of your 140 00:12:17.350 --> 00:12:23.709 screen. There’s the school. I’m un-for-sure the exact name of it, but that’s—that’s 141 00:12:23.709 --> 00:12:28.360 going to be on—it’s going to be south of—south of Fourth Street, it’s going 142 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:35.139 to be east of Santa Fe. Whatever school that is, it’s going to be—it is, like you see, 143 00:12:35.139 --> 00:12:42.139 completely destroyed, as kids run up to hopefully their loved ones. But this whole area right 144 00:12:44.850 --> 00:12:49.570 here, guys, is—it’s completely destroyed. The houses are destroyed. 145 00:12:49.570 --> 00:12:56.570 AMY GOODMAN: The storm was so powerful, it was able to unlatch cellar doors where residents 146 00:12:56.959 --> 00:13:00.680 had taken refuge. This is tornado survivor Ricky Stover. 147 00:13:00.680 --> 00:13:04.730 RICKY STOVER: We thought we died, because we were inside the cellar door, we locked 148 00:13:04.730 --> 00:13:11.540 the cellar door once we saw it coming, it got louder, and next thing you know, you see 149 00:13:11.540 --> 00:13:16.610 the latch coming undone, and we couldn’t reach for it, and it ripped open the door. 150 00:13:16.610 --> 00:13:22.149 And just glass and debris started slamming on us. And we thought something—we thought 151 00:13:22.149 --> 00:13:22.889 we were dead, to be honest. 152 00:13:22.889 --> 00:13:27.370 AMY GOODMAN: Witnesses reported Monday’s tornado appeared stronger than the massive 153 00:13:27.370 --> 00:13:33.139 twister that tore up the region May 3rd, 1999, killing more than 40 people and destroying 154 00:13:33.139 --> 00:13:40.139 thousands of homes. The 1999 tornado was ranked EF5 and had highest winds ever recorded on 155 00:13:41.380 --> 00:13:42.160 Earth. 156 00:13:42.160 --> 00:13:47.310 The Federal Emergency Management Agency has already begun helping local residents. Oklahoma 157 00:13:47.310 --> 00:13:52.899 is home to two of the Senate’s most vocal critics of FEMA, Republicans Jim Inhofe and 158 00:13:52.899 --> 00:13:58.350 Tom Coburn. They have both opposed increased funding for FEMA over the years and backed 159 00:13:58.350 --> 00:14:03.740 a plan to slash disaster relief to victims of Hurricane Sandy. Coburn is already insisting 160 00:14:03.740 --> 00:14:07.769 any federal disaster aid be paid for with cuts elsewhere. 161 00:14:07.769 --> 00:14:11.260 To find out more about the effects of Monday’s tornado, we’re joined now on the phone by 162 00:14:11.260 --> 00:14:17.579 Beverly Allam, who lives five miles from Moore, the Oklahoma City suburb destroyed by the 163 00:14:17.579 --> 00:14:22.730 tornado. She witnessed the storm from a distance. Her family lost everything in the May ’99 164 00:14:22.730 --> 00:14:26.160 tornado. The recent tornado ripped right through her old neighborhood. 165 00:14:26.160 --> 00:14:31.589 We’re also joined via Democracy Now! video stream by Jeff Masters, director of meteorology 166 00:14:31.589 --> 00:14:33.089 at Weather Underground. 167 00:14:33.089 --> 00:14:35.829 Beverly, let’s begin with you. What did you see? 168 00:14:35.829 --> 00:14:42.660 BEVERLY ALLAM: Good morning. Well, this is just déjà vu. The unimaginable has happened 169 00:14:42.660 --> 00:14:49.660 to this area once again. It was just another unbelievable, huge darkness that just came 170 00:14:49.670 --> 00:14:55.920 over the land and just swept everything off in its path. There’s nothing that could 171 00:14:55.920 --> 00:15:00.370 have really survived this, unless you were underground or totally out of its way. 172 00:15:00.370 --> 00:15:06.130 AMY GOODMAN: Can you explain what you saw yesterday? What time was it in the afternoon? 173 00:15:06.130 --> 00:15:11.889 BEVERLY ALLAM: Well, this was around 2:30 p.m., and I had just left Moore. We had lunch 174 00:15:11.889 --> 00:15:18.889 there and had stopped at a tag agency right there and realized that the air quality, you 175 00:15:19.010 --> 00:15:22.410 know, was getting worse. And, you know, you could actually feel pressure changes, and 176 00:15:22.410 --> 00:15:28.639 you can see the dark clouds starting to come up. And, of course, the rain starts sprinkling. 177 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:33.600 And then, this thing come up so fast, and no one could imagine that it would grow into 178 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:40.190 what it did so quickly, that it just kept growing and growing and growing. And it just 179 00:15:40.190 --> 00:15:43.079 all happened so fast. And it’s just—the air just starts turning and twisting, and 180 00:15:43.079 --> 00:15:46.320 that’s just it, simply. You just have to get out of the way. 181 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:50.959 AMY GOODMAN: What kind of warning was there yesterday afternoon, Beverly? 182 00:15:50.959 --> 00:15:55.610 BEVERLY ALLAM: Oh, we have great warning systems, and we have to give a lot of credit to all 183 00:15:55.610 --> 00:16:01.230 of our local stations. Of course, all the sirens blew for a long time, several—several 184 00:16:01.230 --> 00:16:08.060 different instances in all of our—all the communities around Norman and Moore, south 185 00:16:08.060 --> 00:16:11.980 Oklahoma City. All the sirens were going off, because you never know exactly which way these 186 00:16:11.980 --> 00:16:17.389 things will turn. So, we do have early warning, and it gave people a lot, a lot of time to 187 00:16:17.389 --> 00:16:19.860 really take their precautions needed. 188 00:16:19.860 --> 00:16:25.279 AMY GOODMAN: And how did this compare to what you lived through, what, some 13 years ago? 189 00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:32.149 BEVERLY ALLAM: Well, it’s just the same. The only thing I can say that’s really a 190 00:16:32.149 --> 00:16:39.060 lot worse this time is this is such a much more heavily populated area now. And it’s 191 00:16:39.060 --> 00:16:44.660 just the loss of lives of all these children at the school that weighs so heavily in all 192 00:16:44.660 --> 00:16:49.959 of our hearts at this time. For their families to recover, they’re going to need all of 193 00:16:49.959 --> 00:16:54.130 the grief counselors they can get and a lot of donations. And it’s just—you know, 194 00:16:54.130 --> 00:17:01.130 I equate the ground where Plaza Towers school was to Ground Zero in New York. And I don’t know if they’ll 195 00:17:04.600 --> 00:17:08.620 ever be able to rebuild on that school. This is considered hallowed ground now where all 196 00:17:08.620 --> 00:17:14.709 those children lost their souls. So there’s a lot to weigh on the minds of our civic leaders. 197 00:17:14.709 --> 00:17:20.780 And a lot of families just—the help they’ll need to get through this, I know that they’ll—they’ll 198 00:17:20.780 --> 00:17:22.809 be supplied with all the necessary tools. 199 00:17:22.809 --> 00:17:27.980 AMY GOODMAN: As the storm swept north through central United States, a Kansas meteorologist 200 00:17:27.980 --> 00:17:33.549 stayed on the air as the tornado closed in on the studio. The cameras kept rolling. We’re 201 00:17:33.549 --> 00:17:34.809 going to go to a clip. 202 00:17:34.809 --> 00:17:41.809 JD RUDD: Folks who are on KSN.com, who are no doubt watching us right now as this storm 203 00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:47.919 bears down on the city of Wichita, I— DAVE FREEMAN: You know, JD, in 20 years I’ve 204 00:17:47.919 --> 00:17:48.169 never said this— JD RUDD: Yeah. 205 00:17:47.929 --> 00:17:48.179 DAVE FREEMAN: —but I think it’s our time to go. 206 00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:48.210 JD RUDD: Dave. And— DAVE FREEMAN: I really do. We’ve been monitoring 207 00:17:47.990 --> 00:17:53.860 the conditions here downtown. So, at this point, folks, those—we here at KSN are moving 208 00:17:53.860 --> 00:17:54.450 to our shelters. We are moving to our shelters. JD and I will continue to talk with you as 209 00:17:54.450 --> 00:18:01.450 long as we can. We’re leaving the radar image up, but it appears that it is time for all of us to get to shelter. Get 210 00:18:09.520 --> 00:18:13.220 to shelter right now. Ryan Newton! UNIDENTIFIED: Ryan, get to the shelter now! 211 00:18:13.220 --> 00:18:16.179 DAVE FREEMAN: Ryan Newton, now, Ryan! UNIDENTIFIED: Now! 212 00:18:16.179 --> 00:18:18.770 DAVE FREEMAN: Everybody, down below! Let’s go! 213 00:18:18.770 --> 00:18:23.570 AMY GOODMAN: The station. Jeff Masters, director of meteorology at Weather Underground, if 214 00:18:23.570 --> 00:18:29.390 you could take it from there, if you could explain what happened, explain the tornado 215 00:18:29.390 --> 00:18:31.030 that struck Moore yesterday. 216 00:18:31.030 --> 00:18:36.130 JEFF MASTERS: Yeah, the sound you heard in that video we were just looking at, that was 217 00:18:36.130 --> 00:18:40.860 the sound of large hail pounding on the roof of that TV station. And, boy, the weather 218 00:18:40.860 --> 00:18:46.900 gods have just unleashed a full gamut of bad weather for the Central Plains—I mean, high 219 00:18:46.900 --> 00:18:52.230 winds, large hail, flooding rains, and now these tornadoes. We’ve just seen the perfect 220 00:18:52.230 --> 00:18:57.330 sort of classic springtime tornado weather that you get several times per year in the 221 00:18:57.330 --> 00:19:02.190 central U.S., with very warm, moist air from the Gulf of Mexico coming to the north and 222 00:19:02.190 --> 00:19:07.309 meeting up with very cold, dry air from Canada, and then, on top of that, some dry air coming 223 00:19:07.309 --> 00:19:12.179 in from the Southwest U.S. kind of acting as a cap to some of the intense thunderstorms, 224 00:19:12.179 --> 00:19:17.490 allowing them to build up. And then, finally, when you get enough energy, that cap is broken, 225 00:19:17.490 --> 00:19:21.350 the updrafts go speeding up to the top of the atmosphere, and you get these supercell 226 00:19:21.350 --> 00:19:26.260 thunderstorms like we saw over the past two days and will again today over some portions 227 00:19:26.260 --> 00:19:27.440 of the Midwest. 228 00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:32.179 AMY GOODMAN: Jeff Masters, why is this area of Oklahoma—why is it so vulnerable? 229 00:19:32.179 --> 00:19:38.760 JEFF MASTERS: Yeah, poor Moore, Oklahoma. I mean, they’ve been hit by three EF4 or 230 00:19:38.760 --> 00:19:44.880 stronger tornadoes in the past 14 years, including the most intense tornado ever measured: 302 231 00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:50.190 mile-per-hour winds in the 1999 storm. And I guess it’s just bad luck, because you 232 00:19:50.190 --> 00:19:54.490 would expect other areas, you know, should have gotten that kind of pummeling, you know, 233 00:19:54.490 --> 00:19:59.620 not so much concentrated in area like Moore. I mean, downtown Oklahoma City has never been 234 00:19:59.620 --> 00:20:05.049 hit as bad as Moore has been hit. And I don’t know how to describe, you know, what accounts 235 00:20:05.049 --> 00:20:09.340 for that bad luck. Maybe there is some sort of terrain effect we don’t understand that 236 00:20:09.340 --> 00:20:13.039 makes that area more vulnerable than, say, downtown Oklahoma City. 237 00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:19.520 AMY GOODMAN: How does this tornado compare to the one right there, right nearby, in 1999? 238 00:20:19.520 --> 00:20:25.669 JEFF MASTERS: Yeah, yesterday’s tornado was larger and covered a bigger area, maybe 239 00:20:25.669 --> 00:20:31.740 at least twice as large. As far as the top wind speeds go, we’re not really sure how 240 00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:36.669 strong the winds were in yesterday’s tornado. We’ve been given a preliminary rating of 241 00:20:36.669 --> 00:20:43.140 EF4, which means 166 to 200 mile-per-hour winds, by the National Weather Service, but 242 00:20:43.140 --> 00:20:47.030 they haven’t done detailed damage surveys yet, and it’s quite possible they’ll upgrade 243 00:20:47.030 --> 00:20:52.960 this to an EF5, which means winds in excess of 200 miles per hour, certainly very close 244 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:55.960 to a top-end sort of tornado. They don’t get much stronger than this. 245 00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:58.780 AMY GOODMAN: You think this could be the largest in history? 246 00:20:58.780 --> 00:21:05.780 JEFF MASTERS: It will certainly rank up there in the top 10 or so, I think. And, you know, 247 00:21:06.250 --> 00:21:12.070 we don’t have a very long history. We go back to about the early 1950s as far as, you 248 00:21:12.070 --> 00:21:15.080 know, measuring how big these storms are. And we didn’t have radar until, oh, the 249 00:21:15.080 --> 00:21:22.080 1990s, as far as being able to look on a Doppler radar how big these storms are. So, it’s 250 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:26.400 certainly going to be one of the biggest in history. We don’t know, you know, if it’s 251 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:29.039 going to actually be a record-breaker at this point yet. 252 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:34.650 AMY GOODMAN: Jeff, what is the connection? Is there a connection between this tornado 253 00:21:34.650 --> 00:21:36.150 and global warming? 254 00:21:36.150 --> 00:21:43.150 JEFF MASTERS: That’s a tough call. I mean, it’s an important question. And we really 255 00:21:43.419 --> 00:21:48.900 have a huge area of unknowns here to try and answer that question. The big problem is the 256 00:21:48.900 --> 00:21:54.720 tornado database isn’t very good. It only goes back about 60 years. And we don’t measure 257 00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:58.760 tornadoes directly. They have to run over a building before we know how strong they 258 00:21:58.760 --> 00:22:04.970 are. So we’ve got a lousy database. And our computer models to study tornadoes aren’t 259 00:22:04.970 --> 00:22:10.220 very good yet. We don’t understand what makes them tick very well. So, even with our 260 00:22:10.220 --> 00:22:15.850 highest-quality, finest research models, can’t tell you what a tornado is going to do and 261 00:22:15.850 --> 00:22:21.190 how it’s going to form, we can’t expect our climate models to do that sort of math, 262 00:22:21.190 --> 00:22:25.940 either, because they’re a lot courser. They can’t look at the fine details very well. 263 00:22:25.940 --> 00:22:30.070 So, a lot of uncertainty about how climate change might affect tornadoes. 264 00:22:30.070 --> 00:22:36.020 I might add that over the past 12 months, we’ve seen the record lowest number of tornadoes 265 00:22:36.020 --> 00:22:43.020 in U.S. history, at least the EF1 and stronger tornadoes. But back in 2011, we saw the record 266 00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:48.270 highest 12-month total of tornadoes. So, we’ve just been getting kind of weather whiplash 267 00:22:48.270 --> 00:22:54.220 with our tornado seasons. I mean, going from the extreme highest to the extreme lowest, 268 00:22:54.220 --> 00:23:00.020 that’s really tough to, you know, say what is the trend going to be. Well, it might be 269 00:23:00.020 --> 00:23:05.549 one or the other. And at this point, I can’t identify what climate change is likely to 270 00:23:05.549 --> 00:23:08.360 do, which of those type of years we’re more likely to get. 271 00:23:08.360 --> 00:23:13.710 AMY GOODMAN: In 2011, after a series of large tornadoes, Kevin Trenberth, head of Climate 272 00:23:13.710 --> 00:23:18.030 Analysis Section of the National Center for Atmospheric Research, said, quote, "It is 273 00:23:18.030 --> 00:23:22.309 irresponsible not to mention climate change. ... The environment in which all of these 274 00:23:22.309 --> 00:23:28.929 storms and the tornadoes are occurring has changed from human influences." Your response 275 00:23:28.929 --> 00:23:30.140 to that, Jeff Masters? 276 00:23:30.140 --> 00:23:36.640 JEFF MASTERS: That’s right. Every weather event is substantially changed now by climate 277 00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:41.610 change. There is more heat in the atmosphere. There is more moisture. And something I’ve 278 00:23:41.610 --> 00:23:47.260 been seeing the last three years is the jet stream patterns have been getting very extreme. 279 00:23:47.260 --> 00:23:54.030 I’ve never seen, in my 30 years as a meteorologist, the sort of unusual sorts of jet stream patterns 280 00:23:54.030 --> 00:23:58.880 where we get these large loops, where they tend to get stuck in place, contributing to 281 00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:04.650 extreme weather. Whether we’re going to be seeing more tornadoes because of that, 282 00:24:04.650 --> 00:24:10.950 I don’t really know, because when you do change a jet stream like that, you are actually 283 00:24:10.950 --> 00:24:15.419 going to slow the winds down of the jet stream. And when you have slower winds, you get less 284 00:24:15.419 --> 00:24:21.330 of a twisting motion to get tornadoes spinning. So, in theory, that should decrease tornadoes. 285 00:24:21.330 --> 00:24:25.309 But on the other hand, when you have a warmer atmosphere, the air is more unstable, and 286 00:24:25.309 --> 00:24:29.570 that’s the other key ingredient we need to make tornadoes. How those two factors are 287 00:24:29.570 --> 00:24:34.390 going to interplay in the future, we don’t know. But I think Dr. Trenberth is right: 288 00:24:34.390 --> 00:24:38.309 We have to look at the changed environment that all these sorts of weather systems are 289 00:24:38.309 --> 00:24:42.700 in now to look forward to what we’re going to see in coming decades. 290 00:24:42.700 --> 00:24:49.270 AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to end with Beverly Allam. Oklahoma, your two senators are the 291 00:24:49.270 --> 00:24:55.929 most vocal critics of FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Senators Inhofe and Coburn. 292 00:24:55.929 --> 00:25:02.549 They have both opposed increased funding for FEMA and backed a plan to slash disaster relief 293 00:25:02.549 --> 00:25:07.630 to victims of Hurricane Sandy, though the local congressmember voted for that relief 294 00:25:07.630 --> 00:25:14.630 for Hurricane Sandy, recognizing well that Oklahoma was in the path of these tornadoes. 295 00:25:14.730 --> 00:25:16.770 What do you think about this, Beverly? 296 00:25:16.770 --> 00:25:23.770 BEVERLY ALLAM: Well, truly, I wish they would change their vote. Perhaps they don’t realize, 297 00:25:24.169 --> 00:25:28.909 maybe having not lived through it personally, the effects that it does have and the help 298 00:25:28.909 --> 00:25:35.909 that we really do need. The just sheer numbers of people displaced that need immediate homes 299 00:25:37.150 --> 00:25:42.390 is an incredible, increasing number, and they really need the help quickly. They can’t 300 00:25:42.390 --> 00:25:47.260 wait on legislation; they need it now. So they need something in place to take care 301 00:25:47.260 --> 00:25:49.730 of these in the more immediate situations. 302 00:25:49.730 --> 00:25:54.760 AMY GOODMAN: Can you, finally, talk about these needs that you have—someone, you, 303 00:25:54.760 --> 00:26:01.659 Beverly, know well, given that you were completely wiped out in 1999 and, of course, live right 304 00:26:01.659 --> 00:26:03.870 near, were in Moore yesterday? 305 00:26:03.870 --> 00:26:09.950 BEVERLY ALLAM: Well, that’s just it. You need to find immediate shelter. You have no 306 00:26:09.950 --> 00:26:14.110 home. You have no roof over your head. Unless you have a family in the area or a good friend 307 00:26:14.110 --> 00:26:19.760 that could help take you in, you’re sleeping out in your car. You have to have food, clothing. 308 00:26:19.760 --> 00:26:23.900 We had only the clothes on our backs, and most of the family had no shoes on, literally 309 00:26:23.900 --> 00:26:28.789 nothing. So you have to just start going to, you know, your thrift stores, local markets 310 00:26:28.789 --> 00:26:35.789 for the people. You have very little money at the time. All were poor students, you know, 311 00:26:35.919 --> 00:26:41.960 and so on. And so, it’s just a question of getting help from all the [inaudible]— 312 00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:45.289 AMY GOODMAN: And the federal government, how did— 313 00:26:45.289 --> 00:26:48.450 BEVERLY ALLAM: [inaudible] the federal government came in. They said they would give X amount 314 00:26:48.450 --> 00:26:55.190 of dollars. And then, to be honest, in my personal case, I didn’t get what I was promised. 315 00:26:55.190 --> 00:27:01.760 And then it really did—did hurt a lot. It made it more difficult for me. But I know—I 316 00:27:01.760 --> 00:27:05.330 know these people now are suffering, and they’d have nowhere to go. 317 00:27:05.330 --> 00:27:10.610 AMY GOODMAN: Well, Beverly Allam, I want to thank you for being with us. Beverly lives 318 00:27:10.610 --> 00:27:16.289 five miles from Moore, which is the Oklahoma City suburb that was destroyed by the tornado. 319 00:27:16.289 --> 00:27:22.770 She witnessed it from a distance. Her family lost everything in May 1999 tornado in Oklahoma. 320 00:27:22.770 --> 00:27:29.100 The recent tornado ripped right through her old neighborhood. And thanks to Jeff Masters, 321 00:27:29.100 --> 00:27:31.299 director of meteorology at the Weather Underground. 322 00:27:31.299 --> 00:27:36.799 This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. When we come back, 323 00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:43.450 recession hurts, austerity kills. We’ll talk with the authors of a shocking new book, 324 00:27:43.450 --> 00:27:50.450 The Body Economic: Why Austerity Kills. Stay with us. 325 00:28:09.890 --> 00:28:16.890 AMY GOODMAN: "Early last month, a triple suicide was reported in the seaside town of Civitanova 326 00:29:23.390 --> 00:29:29.880 Marche, Italy. A married couple, Anna Maria Sopranzi, who was 68, and Romeo Dionisi, [who 327 00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:36.419 was] 62, had been struggling to live on her monthly pension of around 500 euros [around 328 00:29:36.419 --> 00:29:40.399 $650 a month], and had fallen behind on rent. 329 00:29:40.399 --> 00:29:44.860 "Because the Italian government’s austerity budget had raised the retirement age, Mr. 330 00:29:44.860 --> 00:29:51.080 Dionisi, a former construction worker, became one of Italy’s esodati (exiled ones)—older 331 00:29:51.080 --> 00:29:56.390 workers plunged into poverty without a safety net. On April 5, he and his wife left a note 332 00:29:56.390 --> 00:30:00.850 on a neighbor’s car asking for forgiveness, then hanged themselves in a storage closet 333 00:30:00.850 --> 00:30:06.299 at home. When Ms. Sopranzi’s brother, Giuseppe [Sopranzi, who was] 73, heard the news, he 334 00:30:06.299 --> 00:30:07.940 drowned himself in the Adriatic." 335 00:30:07.940 --> 00:30:13.120 Those are the opening lines to a startling recent articlein The New York Times headlined 336 00:30:13.120 --> 00:30:19.330 "How Austerity Kills." The authors of the piece, David Stuckler and Dr. Sanjay Basu, 337 00:30:19.330 --> 00:30:23.940 have just published a new book looking at the health impacts of austerity across the 338 00:30:23.940 --> 00:30:29.440 globe. The authors estimate there have been more than 10,000 additional suicides and up 339 00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:34.419 to a million extra cases of depression across Europe and the United States since governments 340 00:30:34.419 --> 00:30:40.059 started introducing austerity programs in the aftermath of the economic crisis. In Greece, 341 00:30:40.059 --> 00:30:46.270 where spending on public health has been slashed by 40 percent, HIV rates have jumped 200 percent, 342 00:30:46.270 --> 00:30:50.970 and Greece has seen its first outbreak in malaria since the 1970s. 343 00:30:50.970 --> 00:30:55.210 David Stuckler is an economist and public health specialist. He’s a senior research 344 00:30:55.210 --> 00:31:00.799 leader at Oxford University. Dr. Sanjay Basu is a physician and epidemiologist. He teaches 345 00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:05.010 at Stanford University. Together, they’ve written this new book, out today, called The 346 00:31:05.010 --> 00:31:11.059 Body Economic: Why Austerity Kills—Recessions, Budget Battles, and the Politics of Life and 347 00:31:11.059 --> 00:31:11.470 Death. 348 00:31:11.470 --> 00:31:15.970 We welcome you both to Democracy Now! I’m glad you could both be together in one place, 349 00:31:15.970 --> 00:31:22.200 being at Stanford and being at Oxford. David, let’s begin with you. Lay out the thesis 350 00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:23.240 of this book. 351 00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:28.039 DAVID STUCKLER: We’ve been studying how recessions affect people’s health over the 352 00:31:28.039 --> 00:31:33.649 past decade, looking at the Great Depression through the East Asian financial crisis, right 353 00:31:33.649 --> 00:31:40.340 through to the present Great Recession. And what we found is that recessions hurt. Unemployment, 354 00:31:40.340 --> 00:31:45.679 job loss, foreclosure, unpayable debt are risks to health. But what ultimately matters 355 00:31:45.679 --> 00:31:51.159 is how politicians respond. And when they make large cuts to social supports, social 356 00:31:51.159 --> 00:31:54.299 protections, they can turn recessions into severe epidemics. 357 00:31:54.299 --> 00:32:00.679 AMY GOODMAN: So, explain. Give us examples in countries. I mean, this horrific story 358 00:32:00.679 --> 00:32:06.710 I just described of this triple suicide, the couple and then her brother. Talk about what 359 00:32:06.710 --> 00:32:10.580 people—what happens when policies go one way or the other. 360 00:32:10.580 --> 00:32:15.149 DAVID STUCKLER: Greece is in the middle of a public health disaster, as you mentioned. 361 00:32:15.149 --> 00:32:19.740 To meet budget deficit reduction targets set by the so-called troika—the International 362 00:32:19.740 --> 00:32:23.940 Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank and European Commission—Greece has cut its health 363 00:32:23.940 --> 00:32:29.390 sector by more than 40 percent. At a time when homelessness is escalating and austerity 364 00:32:29.390 --> 00:32:34.700 has further driven up youth unemployment, we’ve seen HIV infections jump, concentrated 365 00:32:34.700 --> 00:32:40.140 in injection drug users. The malaria outbreak was linked to the cut in mosquito-spraying 366 00:32:40.140 --> 00:32:44.799 prevention programs, creating an outbreak that’s much more costly to control than 367 00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:50.929 the short-term money saved by reducing the budget. Healthcare access has declined substantially. 368 00:32:50.929 --> 00:32:54.269 The majority of people who have lost access are pensioners who have contributed to the 369 00:32:54.269 --> 00:32:59.330 system their entire lives. And these are just a few of the many health effects seen in Greece, 370 00:32:59.330 --> 00:33:04.260 mirrored in Spain, Italy and, to some extent, the U.K. and the U.S. 371 00:33:04.260 --> 00:33:09.230 AMY GOODMAN: We were just talking before the show about one of the suicides in Spain that 372 00:33:09.230 --> 00:33:16.230 became very well known. I wanted to turn to a clip. At the time, we were talking to a 373 00:33:16.840 --> 00:33:20.309 former Democracy Now! producer, María Carrión [http://www.democracynow.org/2012/11/14/general_strike_sweeps_europe_as_millions], 374 00:33:20.309 --> 00:33:26.169 about this case that occurred in Spain. The woman, David, was named? 375 00:33:26.169 --> 00:33:32.190 DAVID STUCKLER: Amaia Egaña. It was a case of Spain’s eviction suicides. Spain has 376 00:33:32.190 --> 00:33:37.179 a system where when people’s homes are foreclosed, even if they default on their home, they’re 377 00:33:37.179 --> 00:33:43.110 still liable to pay back the debt. So people are plunged into poverty and arrears at the 378 00:33:43.110 --> 00:33:48.840 same time, without support. We’ve seen this trigger large rises in suicides. Spain, Italy 379 00:33:48.840 --> 00:33:52.750 and Greece are at the high end of increases in economic suicides. 380 00:33:52.750 --> 00:33:57.500 AMY GOODMAN: So, Amaia Egaña was 53 years old. She jumped from a balcony to her death 381 00:33:57.500 --> 00:34:02.760 as she was about to be evicted. María Carrión appeared on the show to talk about Amaia’s 382 00:34:02.760 --> 00:34:03.390 suicide. 383 00:34:03.390 --> 00:34:08.669 MARÍA CARRIÓN: Amaia is a former city council member in a town—the town of Barakaldo in 384 00:34:08.669 --> 00:34:14.799 the Basque Country. And her case is especially tragic because she actually didn’t share 385 00:34:14.799 --> 00:34:21.799 just how bad off the situation was even with her husband. So, most people had no idea that 386 00:34:23.299 --> 00:34:29.419 there was a whole—there had been a repossession and an eviction process. She was so desperate 387 00:34:29.419 --> 00:34:36.300 and so ashamed of the situation that she jumped out of her balcony, her fourth floor apartment, 388 00:34:36.300 --> 00:34:43.300 as court employees came to evict her. This comes two weeks after police found a man dead 389 00:34:44.810 --> 00:34:50.859 in his apartment as they went in to evict him from his home after repossession. 390 00:34:50.859 --> 00:34:56.129 And—but, you know, the movement to stop these evictions and repossessions has been 391 00:34:56.129 --> 00:35:02.460 working very hard on this for almost two years, and this is just the watershed. This has been 392 00:35:02.460 --> 00:35:09.460 the one situation that has actually forced government and the opposition and banks to 393 00:35:10.910 --> 00:35:16.310 come to the table and talk about real reform. Before this, you had these evictions taking 394 00:35:16.310 --> 00:35:23.310 place—500 orders every single day—silently. And thanks to the 15M movement—this is—was 395 00:35:25.520 --> 00:35:32.520 the Occupy movement in Spain just over a year ago—the platform against evictions was incredibly 396 00:35:34.180 --> 00:35:39.210 energized. And so, they have been able to stop hundreds of evictions. 397 00:35:39.210 --> 00:35:45.470 But those are evictions of people who come to them and who say, you know, "My home is 398 00:35:45.470 --> 00:35:48.980 being repossessed. I’m facing eviction. Can you help me?" There are a lot of people 399 00:35:48.980 --> 00:35:55.960 like Amaia who did not do this, out of perhaps a sense of guilt or embarrassment. And so, 400 00:35:55.960 --> 00:36:02.960 her case is really representative and emblematic of what has gone wrong in Spain with, you 401 00:36:06.020 --> 00:36:09.760 know, thousands of people being left homeless after repossession and eviction. 402 00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:12.760 AMY GOODMAN: David Stuckler, you were in Spain when Amaia killed herself. 403 00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:17.530 DAVID STUCKLER: I was at a conference with the Barcelona Public Health Agency. The meeting 404 00:36:17.530 --> 00:36:24.030 got cut short as protests erupted onto the streets of Barcelona. People were outraged 405 00:36:24.030 --> 00:36:29.400 at the eviction-suicide of Amaia, at the hardship perpetuated by deep budget cuts under the 406 00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:31.260 Rajoy government in Spain. 407 00:36:31.260 --> 00:36:38.140 AMY GOODMAN: On April 4, 2012, a 77-year-old retired Greek pharmacist named Dimitris Christoulas 408 00:36:38.140 --> 00:36:42.910 shot and killed himself near the Greek Parliament after writing a note that blamed his suicide 409 00:36:42.910 --> 00:36:48.980 on the economic crisis. His daughter Emi spoke at his funeral and said his act had been deeply 410 00:36:48.980 --> 00:36:50.000 political. 411 00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:56.150 EMI CHRISTOULAS: [translated] You found it unacceptable that they were killing our freedom, 412 00:36:56.150 --> 00:37:01.619 our democracy, our dignity. You found it unacceptable as they tightened the harsh noose of economic 413 00:37:01.619 --> 00:37:07.320 austerity and apartheid around us, to the unacceptable act of surrendering our independence 414 00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:11.710 and the keys to the country. It was unacceptable to you that Greece did not acknowledge its 415 00:37:11.710 --> 00:37:16.869 children and its children did not recognize their own country. You found the bestiality 416 00:37:16.869 --> 00:37:23.099 of capitalism unacceptable, that it infiltrated our lives and no one tried to stop it. Then, 417 00:37:23.099 --> 00:37:29.470 you made your decision to become the fear, the death, the memory, the sorrow of our ruined 418 00:37:29.470 --> 00:37:30.079 lives. 419 00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:36.859 AMY GOODMAN: Sanjay Basu, you have found more than 10,000 additional suicides and up to 420 00:37:36.859 --> 00:37:42.400 a million extra cases of depression across Europe and the United States. Since when? 421 00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:43.780 How did you come up with these figures? 422 00:37:43.780 --> 00:37:49.030 DR. SANJAY BASU: Right. One of the major questions we asked here: Is this inevitable during a 423 00:37:49.030 --> 00:37:52.839 recession? Recessions are bad times. Could this just be the recession’s effects as 424 00:37:52.839 --> 00:37:57.520 opposed to austerity’s effects? And so, what we did is used so-called natural experiments. 425 00:37:57.520 --> 00:38:02.599 We compared regions and countries since the beginning of the recession, and even beforehand, 426 00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:08.310 to control for people’s pre-existing conditions, pre-existing mental health and alcoholism 427 00:38:08.310 --> 00:38:13.710 and so forth, and also compared areas that faced the same economic shock but had different 428 00:38:13.710 --> 00:38:19.349 policy responses. And looking at those as comparative cases, we could find that, in 429 00:38:19.349 --> 00:38:25.250 fact, during recessions, inevitably suicides or alcoholism didn’t increase, but rather, 430 00:38:25.250 --> 00:38:31.280 it was after austerity, in particular. And controlling for other factors that could statistically 431 00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:36.740 explain this, austerity consistently came up as a key trigger not just for suicides, 432 00:38:36.740 --> 00:38:41.050 but for alcohol, stress-related heart attacks and other major causes of death. 433 00:38:41.050 --> 00:38:46.500 AMY GOODMAN: Now, this is the key point here, is the difference—I mean, people can say, 434 00:38:46.500 --> 00:38:51.970 "Well, hard times lead to, you know, very painful decisions that people make." 435 00:38:51.970 --> 00:38:52.329 DR. SANJAY BASU: Mm-hmm. 436 00:38:52.329 --> 00:38:56.630 AMY GOODMAN: But that you’re saying that even in equally difficult situations, when 437 00:38:56.630 --> 00:39:02.920 countries opt for another solution, the public health of that community changes. 438 00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:06.910 DR. SANJAY BASU: Correct. We can look, for example, at Iceland as a contrast. Now, Greece 439 00:39:06.910 --> 00:39:11.770 and Iceland are very different socially, politically and economically, but Iceland serves as a 440 00:39:11.770 --> 00:39:18.010 nice case in point right now. They had faced a debt at 800 percent of GDP, the largest 441 00:39:18.010 --> 00:39:20.760 banking crisis in history compared to the size of the economy. 442 00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:23.200 AMY GOODMAN: When their banks failed, their three top banks failed. 443 00:39:23.200 --> 00:39:26.740 DR. SANJAY BASU: Correct, all three major banks failed. And they had invested, of course, 444 00:39:26.740 --> 00:39:32.089 in U.S. mortgage-backed securities. After this, the Iceland politicians decided to do 445 00:39:32.089 --> 00:39:35.980 something truly unique as compared to the rest of Europe. They actually put the austerity 446 00:39:35.980 --> 00:39:41.530 plan to a public vote. And the public voted that instead of paying off bankers’ debts 447 00:39:41.530 --> 00:39:46.570 immediately through public cuts, they would instead do it gradually. They would still 448 00:39:46.570 --> 00:39:52.420 bail out their banks, but over the course of time and with great pace towards preserving 449 00:39:52.420 --> 00:39:58.240 their social safety net. And indeed what Iceland ended up doing was maintaining some of the 450 00:39:58.240 --> 00:40:01.720 healthiest standards in the world and the highest level of happiness. 451 00:40:01.720 --> 00:40:07.849 AMY GOODMAN: We were just joined by the Icelandic Parliamentarian Birgitta Jónsdóttir [http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2013/4/8/birgitta_jnsdttir_on_criminalization_of_cyber_activists_bradley_manning_icelands_pirate_party_pt_2] 452 00:40:07.849 --> 00:40:11.710 on Democracy Now! here in New York—she had just come in from Iceland—talking about 453 00:40:11.710 --> 00:40:16.900 how Iceland recovered from the collapse of its banking system. A part of what the country 454 00:40:16.900 --> 00:40:21.040 did, as you said, was to preserve its universal healthcare system. 455 00:40:21.040 --> 00:40:25.770 BIRGITTA JÓNSDÓTTIR: Actually, everybody has the same access to health and education. 456 00:40:25.770 --> 00:40:32.770 So even I, as an MP, ended up in a hospital in November, and I got exactly the same treatment 457 00:40:33.040 --> 00:40:38.589 as the woman working in the factory or in McDonald’s or Domino’s. And I like that. 458 00:40:38.589 --> 00:40:45.060 I love that. I think that is so important. And so, we pay just about the same amount 459 00:40:45.060 --> 00:40:52.060 of taxes as U.S. taxpayers. We don’t have to live in this insurance jungle. So we just, 460 00:40:53.460 --> 00:40:57.260 you know—and that was actually one of the first things they wanted to slash down, the 461 00:40:57.260 --> 00:40:57.800 IMF—no surprise. 462 00:40:57.800 --> 00:40:59.900 AMY GOODMAN: They preserve their healthcare system. 463 00:40:59.900 --> 00:41:04.520 DR. SANJAY BASU: Mm-hmm. And indeed she highlights one of the key issues here, which is that 464 00:41:04.520 --> 00:41:09.810 there’s a great misunderstanding around debts and deficits. When we face a liquidities 465 00:41:09.810 --> 00:41:15.130 crisis, meaning that there’s a collapse in demand in the system, we actually find, 466 00:41:15.130 --> 00:41:19.970 quite robustly, through peer-reviewed journals and consistent with those of our colleagues, 467 00:41:19.970 --> 00:41:25.390 that stimulus early on does not actually produce higher, longer-term debts, but it generates 468 00:41:25.390 --> 00:41:29.970 the revenue and the building of the economic cycle that allows us to pay off those longer-term 469 00:41:29.970 --> 00:41:35.060 debts. By contrast, these short-term cuts end up so slowing the economic cycle that 470 00:41:35.060 --> 00:41:39.680 we find both economic and public health devastation as a result. 471 00:41:39.680 --> 00:41:44.740 AMY GOODMAN: After break, I want to talk about the U.S., but, David Stuckler, you said you 472 00:41:44.740 --> 00:41:50.810 looked at the labor policies of places like Sweden and Finland in times of recession. 473 00:41:50.810 --> 00:41:55.359 DAVID STUCKLER: It’s a remarkable case study. It alludes to what Sanjay mentioned earlier. 474 00:41:55.359 --> 00:42:00.230 Sweden faced a large banking crisis. Unemployment jumped by more than 10 percentage points. 475 00:42:00.230 --> 00:42:05.790 And yet suicides fell steadily. What we learned is that when politicians managed the consequences 476 00:42:05.790 --> 00:42:10.810 of unemployment well, they were able to prevent a mental health crisis. The specific programs 477 00:42:10.810 --> 00:42:16.700 we found are called active labor market programs. These help the newly unemployed link to caseworkers, 478 00:42:16.700 --> 00:42:21.000 develop an action plan and return into jobs. They treat unemployment like the pandemic 479 00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:25.680 it is. It not only saves money on healthcare bills, but even pays for itself by helping 480 00:42:25.680 --> 00:42:26.890 spur economic recovery. 481 00:42:26.890 --> 00:42:31.569 AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to talk about what choices the United States is making, with 482 00:42:31.569 --> 00:42:36.750 David Stuckler and Sanjay Basu. Their book is called The Body Economic: Why Austerity 483 00:42:36.750 --> 00:42:43.750 Kills. Stay with us. 484 00:43:55.650 --> 00:44:00.140 [break] 485 00:44:00.140 --> 00:44:07.140 AMY GOODMAN: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recently revealed the suicide 486 00:44:15.540 --> 00:44:22.540 rate in people aged 35 to 64 rose by nearly 30 percent over the past decade, to 17.6 deaths 487 00:44:23.380 --> 00:44:28.450 per 100,000. The biggest increase was seen for men in their fifties, where the suicide 488 00:44:28.450 --> 00:44:33.880 rate increased 50 percent. Overall, suicides are now a greater cause of death in the United 489 00:44:33.880 --> 00:44:40.180 States than car accidents. CDC Director Thomas Frieden recently spoke to PBS NewsHour. 490 00:44:40.180 --> 00:44:45.450 DR. THOMAS FRIEDEN: We don’t know what specifically is causing it, but the trend has been consistent. 491 00:44:45.450 --> 00:44:50.930 And, if anything, our numbers would underestimate the gravity of the problem. And, of course, 492 00:44:50.930 --> 00:44:57.000 even one death from suicide is a terrible tragedy, and many of them are preventable. 493 00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:02.119 We know that in times of financial stress, there is generally an increase in suicides. 494 00:45:02.119 --> 00:45:07.720 We also know that this is a generation that grew up at a time when they expected more 495 00:45:07.720 --> 00:45:12.750 than some have been able to achieve in their lives, and also that they’re stressed with 496 00:45:12.750 --> 00:45:16.060 what their kids are going through and what their parents are going through. So it’s, 497 00:45:16.060 --> 00:45:18.030 in some ways, the sandwich generation. 498 00:45:18.030 --> 00:45:24.180 AMY GOODMAN: That’s CDC Director Thomas Frieden on PBS. We’re joined by David Stuckler 499 00:45:24.180 --> 00:45:30.180 and Sanjay Basu. They are authors of The Body Economic: Why Austerity Kills. David Stuckler 500 00:45:30.180 --> 00:45:37.180 is a senior research leader at Oxford University, and Sanjay Basu is an assistant professor 501 00:45:37.569 --> 00:45:44.569 of medicine and epidemiologist at Stanford University. If you could respond, Dr. Basu, 502 00:45:44.970 --> 00:45:46.010 to Dr. Frieden’s comment? 503 00:45:46.010 --> 00:45:50.550 DR. SANJAY BASU: Yeah, I certainly agree with Dr. Frieden’s comment. And what we have 504 00:45:50.550 --> 00:45:56.740 found in our research is that these suicide rate spikes seem to correspond quite closely 505 00:45:56.740 --> 00:46:01.569 to state-level unemployment rates. And in particular, when we do these long-term studies 506 00:46:01.569 --> 00:46:07.000 that track individuals before the recession, during the recession and after, we can control 507 00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:12.300 for their pre-existing mental health statistically, and we find that it’s the new unemployment 508 00:46:12.300 --> 00:46:18.210 that seems to trigger new onset of depression and suicide, particularly among our most vulnerable, 509 00:46:18.210 --> 00:46:22.240 adults over 50, who, when they lose a job, are often discriminated against or have a 510 00:46:22.240 --> 00:46:26.480 very hard time finding new work. There’s a great deal of shame, and also it’s quite 511 00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:33.130 hard for our healthcare system to access those individuals, given the degree of barriers 512 00:46:33.130 --> 00:46:35.630 that they have, social barriers, to accessing mental healthcare. 513 00:46:35.630 --> 00:46:39.109 AMY GOODMAN: I mean, the point for people to understand in this country is, what’s 514 00:46:39.109 --> 00:46:43.349 unusual for us, compared to other countries, is that when we lose our jobs, we lose our 515 00:46:43.349 --> 00:46:44.109 health insurance. 516 00:46:44.109 --> 00:46:48.609 DR. SANJAY BASU: Absolutely. And we do have some safety nets in the form of Medicaid, 517 00:46:48.609 --> 00:46:53.410 Medicare, but it’s quite true that there are some large holes in that system, as has 518 00:46:53.410 --> 00:46:55.250 been repeated time and time again. 519 00:46:55.250 --> 00:47:00.640 AMY GOODMAN: During an interview on Fox News in February, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham 520 00:47:00.640 --> 00:47:06.569 of South Carolina suggested slashing healthcare to stop scheduled sequester cuts from, quote, 521 00:47:06.569 --> 00:47:07.410 "destroying the military." 522 00:47:07.410 --> 00:47:13.660 SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: The commander-in-chief thought—came up with the idea of sequestration, 523 00:47:13.660 --> 00:47:18.119 destroying the military and putting a lot of good programs at risk. Here’s my belief. 524 00:47:18.119 --> 00:47:23.690 Let’s take "Obamacare" and put it on the table. You can make $86,000 a year in income 525 00:47:23.690 --> 00:47:28.780 and still get a government subsidy under "Obamacare." "Obamacare" is destroying healthcare in this 526 00:47:28.780 --> 00:47:32.910 country. People are leaving the private sector because their companies can’t afford to 527 00:47:32.910 --> 00:47:37.510 offer "Obamacare." If you want to look at ways to find $1.2 trillion in savings over 528 00:47:37.510 --> 00:47:43.270 the next decade, let’s look at "Obamacare." Let’s don’t destroy the military and just 529 00:47:43.270 --> 00:47:45.079 cut blindly across the board. 530 00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:48.119 AMY GOODMAN: David Stuckler, can you respond to Senator Graham? 531 00:47:48.119 --> 00:47:52.260 DAVID STUCKLER: Austerity in health is a false economy. The cliché, an ounce of prevention 532 00:47:52.260 --> 00:47:56.530 is worth a pound of cure, is really true. New York City officials learned this the hard 533 00:47:56.530 --> 00:48:02.059 way in the early 1990s, when they cut TB prevention programs by $120 million but ended up with 534 00:48:02.059 --> 00:48:07.550 a drug-resistant TB outbreak that cost more than $1.2 billion to control. What we found 535 00:48:07.550 --> 00:48:12.800 is that smart investments in public health can have a return on investment, for each 536 00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:14.440 dollar, of up to $3. 537 00:48:14.440 --> 00:48:21.440 AMY GOODMAN: So, talk about the healthcare system, Dr. Sanjay Basu, how sequester fits 538 00:48:24.329 --> 00:48:29.309 in, and also just what Lindsey Graham was talking about, "Obamacare." 539 00:48:29.309 --> 00:48:35.569 DR. SANJAY BASU: So, I’m not a politician and—but I do analyze data. And I think, 540 00:48:35.569 --> 00:48:42.160 in looking comparatively among OECD countries, you see a lot of false claims about the U.S. 541 00:48:42.160 --> 00:48:47.559 health system. Why is it that we cost so much more and seem to be getting less? I think 542 00:48:47.559 --> 00:48:52.300 comparing our country to other OECD stations provides some sense of what— 543 00:48:52.300 --> 00:48:53.579 AMY GOODMAN: You’re talking about European countries? 544 00:48:53.579 --> 00:48:57.930 DR. SANJAY BASU: European, as well as Japan, Australia and so forth. And you can see a 545 00:48:57.930 --> 00:49:02.839 lot of the myths by just looking at the data. So, what are the theories? The theory is, 546 00:49:02.839 --> 00:49:07.200 for example, maybe it’s just American obesity. Well, actually, the costs started well before 547 00:49:07.200 --> 00:49:12.910 American obesity and doesn’t seem to correspond actually statistically to obesity. Maybe it’s 548 00:49:12.910 --> 00:49:17.069 that we have an older population, but not so. Switzerland actually pays more in nursing 549 00:49:17.069 --> 00:49:21.450 home care. Japan has an older population, yet they still pay less while getting more 550 00:49:21.450 --> 00:49:26.050 in terms of health. Maybe it’s just technology. We do a lot of research and development. But, 551 00:49:26.050 --> 00:49:31.510 in fact, if you look at the Securities and Exchange Commission data, the R&D pharmaceutical 552 00:49:31.510 --> 00:49:32.170 industry, while making— 553 00:49:32.170 --> 00:49:34.460 AMY GOODMAN: Research and development of the pharmaceutical companies. 554 00:49:34.460 --> 00:49:37.819 DR. SANJAY BASU: Sure. While they make a higher percent profit as a percentage of revenue 555 00:49:37.819 --> 00:49:42.660 than any other Fortune 500 industry at the moment, they actually spend almost double 556 00:49:42.660 --> 00:49:47.589 on marketing as compared to research and development. And while we do use more technology and we 557 00:49:47.589 --> 00:49:52.230 do tend to have some higher costs from technology, it doesn’t actually explain the majority 558 00:49:52.230 --> 00:49:54.430 of the bundle. 559 00:49:54.430 --> 00:49:59.040 What you do see, on the other hand, if you just look at the raw data, is that we get 560 00:49:59.040 --> 00:50:04.930 more—we get more incentives in order to test the people who are covered, in order 561 00:50:04.930 --> 00:50:10.750 to bill more. And there’s a lot of companies making quite a bit of money on that margin. 562 00:50:10.750 --> 00:50:15.660 You can go to one hospital across town and be charged double or more of what another 563 00:50:15.660 --> 00:50:20.569 hospital has on a different side of town. But it’s not like a consumer market. If 564 00:50:20.569 --> 00:50:24.900 I’m in a car accident, I can’t say to the surgeon, "Hold my hand there for a moment 565 00:50:24.900 --> 00:50:28.960 before sewing it back on. I’m just going to go across town and compare prices for a 566 00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:29.790 minute." 567 00:50:29.790 --> 00:50:34.690 So healthcare is a different kind of industry, in which we have what is classically called 568 00:50:34.690 --> 00:50:39.470 "market failure" by the Nobel Prize winner Kenneth Arrow back in the ’60s, but people 569 00:50:39.470 --> 00:50:45.750 ignored his work. I think what we really have is a system where we confuse inequality with 570 00:50:45.750 --> 00:50:49.589 choice. The majority of our costs come from common conditions in a small number of patients 571 00:50:49.589 --> 00:50:55.280 who have complications of diabetes, heart failure, hypertension. And we need more primary 572 00:50:55.280 --> 00:50:58.930 care prevention rather than paying for the ICU care. 573 00:50:58.930 --> 00:51:04.079 AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to go back, and this is a theme you follow in The Body Economic, 574 00:51:04.079 --> 00:51:09.450 to the Depression. Going back to the Great Depression and the New Deal, this is President 575 00:51:09.450 --> 00:51:12.010 Franklin Delano Roosevelt speaking in 1933. 576 00:51:12.010 --> 00:51:16.280 PRESIDENT FRANKLIN DELANO ROOSEVELT: It is three months, my friends, since I have talked 577 00:51:16.280 --> 00:51:21.740 with the people of this country about our national problems. But during this period, 578 00:51:21.740 --> 00:51:26.520 many things have happened. And I am glad to say that the major part of them have greatly 579 00:51:26.520 --> 00:51:32.920 helped the well-being of the average citizen. In the short space of these few months, I 580 00:51:32.920 --> 00:51:38.250 am convinced that at least four million have been given employment, or saying it another 581 00:51:38.250 --> 00:51:45.250 way, 40 percent of those seeking work have found it. That does not mean, my friends, 582 00:51:46.059 --> 00:51:52.210 that I am satisfied or that you are satisfied that our work has ended. We have a long way 583 00:51:52.210 --> 00:51:59.210 to go, but we are on the way. We come to the relief, for a moment, of those 584 00:51:59.460 --> 00:52:06.160 who are in danger of losing their farms or their homes. I have publicly asked that the 585 00:52:06.160 --> 00:52:12.180 foreclosure on farms and cattles and homes be delayed until every mortgagor in the country 586 00:52:12.180 --> 00:52:18.309 has had full opportunity to take advantage of federal credit. And I make the further 587 00:52:18.309 --> 00:52:24.430 request that if there is any family in the United States about to lose its home or its 588 00:52:24.430 --> 00:52:30.210 farm, that family should telegraph at once, either to the Farm Credit Administration or 589 00:52:30.210 --> 00:52:34.410 the Home Loan Corporation in Washington, requesting their help. 590 00:52:34.410 --> 00:52:41.050 AMY GOODMAN: That was President Franklin Roosevelt in 1933. I think this is going to be very 591 00:52:41.050 --> 00:52:46.270 interesting for a lot of people listening and watching this today. David Stuckler, the 592 00:52:46.270 --> 00:52:49.109 choices made then and the choices being made today? 593 00:52:49.109 --> 00:52:56.109 DAVID STUCKLER: Completely different. Roosevelt took bold steps, at a time when debt was 180 594 00:52:56.290 --> 00:53:01.460 percent of GDP, to boost financial relief to the newly unemployed, to save Americans 595 00:53:01.460 --> 00:53:07.800 from homelessness. And we’ve studied the effects of his landmark program, the New Deal, 596 00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:13.569 on health. And what we found is that, comparing the states, the red and blue states, that 597 00:53:13.569 --> 00:53:17.910 pushed it to different degrees—the blue states tended to go further with the New Deal 598 00:53:17.910 --> 00:53:23.010 than the red states—led to a polarization in public health outcomes across the U.S. 599 00:53:23.010 --> 00:53:27.819 The greater relief spending implemented under the New Deal helped reduce suicides, reduced 600 00:53:27.819 --> 00:53:31.780 tuberculosis and pneumonias, and was in fact the biggest and one of the most effective 601 00:53:31.780 --> 00:53:33.910 public health programs on U.S. soil. 602 00:53:33.910 --> 00:53:38.730 AMY GOODMAN: When you hear politicians today saying, "We’ve got to cut 'Obamacare.' We’ve 603 00:53:38.730 --> 00:53:44.880 got to cut healthcare in this country," talk about what you found, what it means for the 604 00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:47.059 economy to invest in public health. 605 00:53:47.059 --> 00:53:51.410 DAVID STUCKLER: Investing in public health is a wise choice in good times and an urgent 606 00:53:51.410 --> 00:53:57.720 necessity in the worst of times. Had austerity been organized like a clinical trial, it would 607 00:53:57.720 --> 00:54:02.540 have been discontinued, given evidence of its deadly side effects. There is an alternative 608 00:54:02.540 --> 00:54:07.260 choice that we found in the historical data and through the present recessions, that when 609 00:54:07.260 --> 00:54:12.500 we place people and their health at the center of economic recovery, it can help get our 610 00:54:12.500 --> 00:54:17.220 economy back on track faster and yield lasting dividends to our society. 611 00:54:17.220 --> 00:54:22.170 AMY GOODMAN: The issue of the West Nile outbreak, can you talk about that? 612 00:54:22.170 --> 00:54:28.040 DR. SANJAY BASU: Mm-hmm. Down in Bakersfield in California, there was a suspicion about 613 00:54:28.040 --> 00:54:32.890 why crows were dropping from the sky and people were also showing up in hospitals. A variety 614 00:54:32.890 --> 00:54:38.980 of theories were posited, ranging from polio to heat stroke, but in fact it amounted to 615 00:54:38.980 --> 00:54:44.280 a West Nile outbreak that, through a number of our colleagues’ research, it was found 616 00:54:44.280 --> 00:54:49.940 that the abandoned and foreclosed homes had stagnant water in old swimming pools and in 617 00:54:49.940 --> 00:54:56.170 other locations that were breeding mosquitoes. And this led to a rather large West Nile outbreak. 618 00:54:56.170 --> 00:55:01.460 Indeed, the reason why it was discovered was something called the California Encephalitis 619 00:55:01.460 --> 00:55:08.460 Project, a group of public system laboratories that work in concert with the CDC. And ironically, 620 00:55:09.040 --> 00:55:12.579 after helping to control that outbreak, they were closed due to budget cuts. 621 00:55:12.579 --> 00:55:18.490 AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to the issue of drug abuse. A recent film by Vice has brought 622 00:55:18.490 --> 00:55:23.380 renewed attention to the drug crisis in Greece, particularly the use of the new drug called 623 00:55:23.380 --> 00:55:30.380 sisa. This is Haralampos Poulopoulos, head of KETHEA, the main anti-drug center in Greece. 624 00:55:30.849 --> 00:55:37.849 DR. HARALAMPOS POULOPOULOS: Sisa is a form of crystal methamphetamine. They use amphetamines 625 00:55:38.849 --> 00:55:45.849 and some other liquids, sometimes battery liquids, to produce this drug. It’s very 626 00:55:52.760 --> 00:55:59.760 dangerous for the health of the users. I think the main reason for the increase of sisa is 627 00:56:03.339 --> 00:56:09.839 the changes of the attitudes of drug users during the crisis. They are more self-destructive. 628 00:56:09.839 --> 00:56:16.839 We have 27 percent unemployment, 62 percent the young people under 25. We didn’t finish 629 00:56:17.440 --> 00:56:22.579 yet with the crisis. We are in the middle of the crisis. 630 00:56:22.579 --> 00:56:28.049 AMY GOODMAN: Haralampos Poulopoulos, head of the main anti-drug center in Greece. David 631 00:56:28.049 --> 00:56:32.780 Stuckler, talk about that, and also relate it to here, as we wrap up. 632 00:56:32.780 --> 00:56:37.980 DAVID STUCKLER: This is a devastating situation we’re seeing in Greece with a drug crisis 633 00:56:37.980 --> 00:56:42.309 escalating at a time when drug prevention budgets are being cut. With gaping holes in 634 00:56:42.309 --> 00:56:47.339 social safety nets from austerity, people are becoming desperate, turning to the means 635 00:56:47.339 --> 00:56:54.339 of self-harm. We’ve seen drug use and infected needles spread HIV, creating rise of more 636 00:56:55.859 --> 00:57:02.359 than 200 percent, leading to an epicenter of HIV/AIDS spread in Europe. 637 00:57:02.359 --> 00:57:07.819 What we can learn from these mistakes, and areas where we see successes in policy, is 638 00:57:07.819 --> 00:57:14.329 that recessions can hurt, but austerity kills. When politicians make smart choices to protect 639 00:57:14.329 --> 00:57:18.940 people during hard times, it doesn’t happen at expense of recovery but can help put our 640 00:57:18.940 --> 00:57:22.000 societies back on track to a happier, healthier future. 641 00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:27.190 AMY GOODMAN: And here in the United States, how that translates into policy? 642 00:57:27.190 --> 00:57:32.400 DAVID STUCKLER: Currently, we’re facing and implementing a large sequester in the 643 00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:37.859 U.S. While it’s too early to see the full health consequences, what we are seeing is 644 00:57:37.859 --> 00:57:42.970 the Women, Infants, Children’s health program, which provides nutritional subsidies to women, 645 00:57:42.970 --> 00:57:48.470 will be forced to reduce those subsidies from 600,000 pregnant women. And that program has 646 00:57:48.470 --> 00:57:53.599 been linked to reducing infant mortality. We’re also seeing large cuts to public housing 647 00:57:53.599 --> 00:58:00.599 budgets at a time when 1.4 million homes are still in foreclosure. We are concerned that, 648 00:58:00.780 --> 00:58:05.760 if done rapidly and indiscriminately, that budget cuts in the U.S. could create a repeat 649 00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:07.589 of the disasters that we’re seeing in Europe. 650 00:58:07.589 --> 00:58:11.819 AMY GOODMAN: Final comment, what most shocked you in writing The Body [Economic], Sanjay 651 00:58:11.819 --> 00:58:12.069 Basu? 652 00:58:12.040 --> 00:58:15.680 DR. SANJAY BASU: You know, coming from the public health field, we have something called 653 00:58:15.680 --> 00:58:21.049 the "precautionary principle," which is that when a idea or policy is controversial, we 654 00:58:21.049 --> 00:58:26.180 should first do whatever protects people the most. And what we’re doing is entirely the 655 00:58:26.180 --> 00:58:32.970 opposite. We’ve essentially had a massive untested experiment. That experiment has failed, 656 00:58:32.970 --> 00:58:36.569 and it sounds like it’s quite deadly, given all the data through history. 657 00:58:36.569 --> 00:58:42.069 AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you both for being with us. Sanjay Basu is an epidemiologist 658 00:58:42.069 --> 00:58:46.630 at Stanford University. David Stuckler, Oxford University. Their new book, out today, The 659 00:58:46.630 --> 00:58:52.470 Body Economic: Why Austerity Kills—Recessions, Budget Battles, and the Politics of Life and 660 00:58:52.470 --> 00:58:55.510 Death.