WEBVTT 1 00:00:15.430 --> 00:00:19.270 From Pacifica, this is Democracy Now! 2 00:00:19.270 --> 00:00:26.270 There were, since 2004 to the end of 2015, 848 priests who were dismissed from the clerical 3 00:00:30.820 --> 00:00:37.820 status and reduced to the lay status, and several hundred more had received other types 4 00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:43.309 of penalties. 5 00:00:43.309 --> 00:00:48.550 As the Vatican testifies before the U.N. Committee Against Torture in Geneva about sexual abuse 6 00:00:48.550 --> 00:00:54.010 within the church, we’ll speak with Barbara Blaine, founder of SNAP, Survivors Network 7 00:00:54.010 --> 00:01:00.440 of those Abused by Priests. Then we’ll speak to Kathryn Joyce, author of "By Grace Alone: 8 00:01:00.440 --> 00:01:06.890 As Sex-Abuse Allegations Multiply, Billy Graham’s Grandson is on a Mission to Persuade Protestant 9 00:01:06.890 --> 00:01:07.740 Churches to Come Clean." 10 00:01:07.740 --> 00:01:14.740 GRACE is really uniquely positioned for this task to go in and do investigations in sexual 11 00:01:15.200 --> 00:01:22.170 abuse at schools like Bob Jones or missionary groups like New Tribes or ABWE, because they 12 00:01:22.170 --> 00:01:28.920 have impeccable evangelical credentials. You almost couldn’t come from a more, you know, 13 00:01:28.920 --> 00:01:32.560 storied line of evangelicals than to be Billy Graham’s grandson. 14 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:38.310 And finally, we’ll go to Connecticut, where a 16-year-old transgender girl has spent the 15 00:01:38.310 --> 00:01:43.590 last month locked up in solitary confinement without any criminal charges. We’ll find 16 00:01:43.590 --> 00:01:44.630 out why. 17 00:01:44.630 --> 00:01:51.430 All that and more, coming up. 18 00:01:51.430 --> 00:01:56.420 Welcome to Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. 19 00:01:56.420 --> 00:02:03.020 A new massacre by the Boko Haram in Nigeria has left several hundred people dead. Residents 20 00:02:03.020 --> 00:02:08.170 and local officials say dozens of Boko Haram gunmen attacked the northeast town of Gamboru 21 00:02:08.170 --> 00:02:14.739 Ngala on Monday. At least 336 people were killed and hundreds of homes and vehicles 22 00:02:14.739 --> 00:02:20.220 set on fire. Bodies were still lying in the street two days later. The town sits on the 23 00:02:20.220 --> 00:02:24.680 Cameroon border and was reportedly targeted because some residents were assisting the 24 00:02:24.680 --> 00:02:26.430 Nigerian army. 25 00:02:26.430 --> 00:02:30.799 News of the latest attack comes amidst global outcry over the Boko Haram’s kidnapping 26 00:02:30.799 --> 00:02:36.900 of nearly 300 schoolgirls in the same region. On Wednesday, protests continued in the capital 27 00:02:36.900 --> 00:02:41.160 Abuja calling on the Nigerian government to step up its search for the missing girls. 28 00:02:41.160 --> 00:02:41.410 Aisha Sa’ad: "I wish, but I think they should do more. I don’t think they are doing enough, 29 00:02:41.160 --> 00:02:41.410 but I wish they can do more, but may be something that is beyond their control. So I wish, I 30 00:02:41.160 --> 00:02:41.410 hope, I am praying, and please, asking them, please try more, try more and get these girls 31 00:02:41.269 --> 00:02:48.269 out, get them out of those monsters, from these monsters’ hands, please. I’m so 32 00:02:54.230 --> 00:03:01.230 angry because it’s just too much. It’s too much for a mother to go through this." 33 00:03:15.870 --> 00:03:21.870 Nigerian police have offered a $300,000 reward for information leading to the girls’ rescue. 34 00:03:21.870 --> 00:03:27.690 A video from the Boko Haram this week threatened to sell the girls into captivity amidst rumors 35 00:03:27.690 --> 00:03:33.019 that’s already happened. The Boko Haram seized 11 more girls in another kidnapping 36 00:03:33.019 --> 00:03:38.370 on Sunday. At a rally outside the Nigerian Consulate in Washington, D.C., Democratic 37 00:03:38.370 --> 00:03:43.449 Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee addressed reports the kidnapped girls have been sold off for 38 00:03:43.449 --> 00:03:44.370 as little as $12. 39 00:03:44.370 --> 00:03:51.370 Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee: "We are anguished, as mothers, grandmothers and lovers of children, 40 00:03:52.410 --> 00:03:59.410 that this is what the children, the girls in Nigeria, are worth. And so our first command 41 00:04:02.340 --> 00:04:09.199 and demand is to use all resources to bring the terrorist thug to justice." 42 00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:16.199 Russian President Vladimir Putin has called on separatists to delay a referendum on breaking 43 00:04:23.020 --> 00:04:28.900 off from Ukraine . Areas in eastern Ukraine occupied by pro-Russian forces are set to 44 00:04:28.900 --> 00:04:35.210 vote this Sunday on whether to seek autonomy. Amidst continued violence over the past week, 45 00:04:35.210 --> 00:04:38.560 Putin called on the separatists to postpone the vote. 46 00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:44.710 Russian President Vladimir Putin: "We call on the representatives of southeastern Ukraine, 47 00:04:44.710 --> 00:04:49.419 the supporters of the federalization of the country, to postpone the referendum planned 48 00:04:49.419 --> 00:04:56.419 for May 11 this year. Meanwhile, a necessary condition for the start of this dialogue is 49 00:04:58.129 --> 00:05:03.430 the unconditional stopping of any violence. Both the use of military force is absolutely 50 00:05:03.430 --> 00:05:09.319 unacceptable in the modern world, as is the use of armed illegal units, extremist elements 51 00:05:09.319 --> 00:05:10.319 and forces." 52 00:05:10.319 --> 00:05:15.479 In his comments, Putin also said he has ordered Russian forces to pull back from the Ukrainian 53 00:05:15.479 --> 00:05:21.180 border in a bid to defuse tensions. Earlier today, the coordinating committee of the so-called 54 00:05:21.180 --> 00:05:27.960 Donetsk People’s Republic rejected Putin’s call, saying Sunday’s vote will go ahead. 55 00:05:27.960 --> 00:05:33.389 Cuba has arrested four Miami-based exiles on allegations of plotting anti-government 56 00:05:33.389 --> 00:05:38.240 attacks. The Cuban Interior Ministry says the suspects were planning violence against 57 00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:44.289 military installations with the goal of fomenting anti-government unrest. Cuba also says the 58 00:05:44.289 --> 00:05:50.819 four have ties to Luis Posada Carriles, a Cuban exile and former CIA operative behind 59 00:05:50.819 --> 00:05:57.819 a 1976 Cubana Airlines bombing that killed 76 people. Carriles currently lives in Miami 60 00:05:58.189 --> 00:06:03.969 after beating charges of immigration fraud in 2011. Cuba says it plans to contact the 61 00:06:03.969 --> 00:06:07.439 State Department about the new arrests. 62 00:06:07.439 --> 00:06:11.740 The House has advanced a measure that would curb the bulk collection of phone records 63 00:06:11.740 --> 00:06:16.889 by the National Security Agency . The USA FREEDOM Act would limit the NSA’s powers 64 00:06:16.889 --> 00:06:22.430 to collect phone records on a mass scale, although not entirely. It is co-authored by 65 00:06:22.430 --> 00:06:29.400 Republican Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner of Wisconsin, co-author of the USA PATRIOT Act. On Wednesday, 66 00:06:29.400 --> 00:06:34.919 the House Judiciary Committee sent the bill to the House floor with a unanimous 32-to-0 67 00:06:34.919 --> 00:06:40.340 bipartisan vote. It is the first surveillance reform measure to make it out of committee 68 00:06:40.340 --> 00:06:42.719 to the House floor. 69 00:06:42.719 --> 00:06:47.280 Federal regulators have tightened the rules for trains carrying crude oil following a 70 00:06:47.280 --> 00:06:53.789 spate of accidents and spills. Citing an "imminent" public hazard, the U.S. Department of Transportation 71 00:06:53.789 --> 00:06:59.699 says railroads will be required to notify local emergency responders when crude shipments 72 00:06:59.699 --> 00:07:05.969 pass through their states. Railroads previously had no such obligations. A train derailment 73 00:07:05.969 --> 00:07:11.009 in Virginia last week forced the evacuation of hundreds of residents and spilled oil into 74 00:07:11.009 --> 00:07:16.349 the James River, Richmond’s main water supply. It was the second oil train accident by the 75 00:07:16.349 --> 00:07:21.529 company CSX this year and the sixth overall in North America since the derailment that 76 00:07:21.529 --> 00:07:26.560 killed 47 people in Quebec last July. 77 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:32.129 Protesters have set up camp outside the Federal Communications Commission in Washington to 78 00:07:32.129 --> 00:07:38.129 protest new rules that would effectively abandon net neutrality, the concept of a free and 79 00:07:38.129 --> 00:07:44.449 open Internet. The FCC announced last month plans to let Internet providers charge media 80 00:07:44.449 --> 00:07:50.159 companies extra fees to receive preferential treatment, such as faster speeds for their 81 00:07:50.159 --> 00:07:56.430 products and content. Under previous regulations struck down earlier this year, providers were 82 00:07:56.430 --> 00:08:02.960 forced to provide all content at equal speeds. Just steps from the FCC, demonstrators have 83 00:08:02.960 --> 00:08:09.069 set up tents and banners reading "Save the Internet." Organizers of the "People’s Firewall" 84 00:08:09.069 --> 00:08:14.650 encampment say they plan to remain until the FCC holds a public hearing next week. They 85 00:08:14.650 --> 00:08:20.309 want federal regulators to reclassify broadband service as a public utility, which would allow 86 00:08:20.309 --> 00:08:25.029 for the requirement of net neutrality rules. 87 00:08:25.029 --> 00:08:29.159 Fast-food workers have announced a global day of action to push for higher wages and 88 00:08:29.159 --> 00:08:35.279 improved workplace rights. The workers will stage a one-day strike at fast-food franchises 89 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:42.180 in 33 countries on six continents, one week from today. It is the latest phase in a movement 90 00:08:42.180 --> 00:08:49.180 that began with U.S. workers staging one-day actions for a $15 minimum wage in late 2012. 91 00:08:49.560 --> 00:08:54.810 The campaign has received heavy backing from the Service Employees International Union. 92 00:08:54.810 --> 00:09:01.050 A major D.C. law firm has dropped out of a lawsuit against the oil giant Chevron for 93 00:09:01.050 --> 00:09:06.779 pollution in Ecuador’s Amazon rainforest. Patton Boggs had helped represent a group 94 00:09:06.779 --> 00:09:13.110 of indigenous plaintiffs who won a landmark $9 billion judgment in 2011 for widespread 95 00:09:13.110 --> 00:09:19.440 contamination resulting from toxic dumping by Texaco, which Chevron later bought. But 96 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:24.410 Chevron sued the victims and their U.S. attorney, accusing them of bribing the judge in the 97 00:09:24.410 --> 00:09:29.980 case and presenting fraudulent evidence. Chevron won the lawsuit in March, with a federal judge 98 00:09:29.980 --> 00:09:35.750 barring collection of their $9 billion judgment in the United States. On Wednesday, Patton 99 00:09:35.750 --> 00:09:40.760 Boggs withdrew from the case after Chevron threatened legal action over the firm’s 100 00:09:40.760 --> 00:09:47.760 role in the Amazonians’ case. Patton Boggs has also agreed to pay Chevron $15 million. 101 00:09:48.740 --> 00:09:55.410 Bloomberg Businessweek reports the firm’s retreat "is highly unusual and possibly unprecedented." 102 00:09:55.410 --> 00:09:59.500 It could be linked to Patton Boggs’ current effort to merge with a larger firm amidst 103 00:09:59.500 --> 00:10:03.519 a series of financial woes. 104 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:08.949 Pakistan has arrested an FBI agent on charges of trying to bring weapons onto a civilian 105 00:10:08.949 --> 00:10:14.959 passenger plane. Joel Cox reportedly tried to board a flight carrying bullets and a knife 106 00:10:14.959 --> 00:10:21.060 in his luggage. The arrest has revived memories of Raymond Davis, the CIA agent who shot dead 107 00:10:21.060 --> 00:10:27.230 two people in Pakistan in 2011. Davis was released after compensation was paid to the 108 00:10:27.230 --> 00:10:29.380 victims’ families. 109 00:10:29.380 --> 00:10:33.790 And those are some of the headlines this is Democracy Now, Democracynow.org, the War and 110 00:10:33.790 --> 00:10:39.430 Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. 111 00:10:39.430 --> 00:10:45.589 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: The U.N. Committee on Torture sharply questioned the Vatican this week over 112 00:10:45.589 --> 00:10:51.380 its handling of sexual abuse inside the Catholic Church. The hearing came just four months 113 00:10:51.380 --> 00:10:56.050 after another U.N. body, the Committee on the Rights of the Child, accused the Vatican 114 00:10:56.050 --> 00:11:02.100 of systematically turning a blind eye to decades of abuse and attempting to cover up sex crimes. 115 00:11:02.100 --> 00:11:07.320 During this week’s hearing, Archbishop Silvano Tomasi revealed the church had dismissed more 116 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:11.430 than 800 priests for sexual abuse of children in the past decade. 117 00:11:11.430 --> 00:11:18.430 ARCHBISHOP SILVANO TOMASI: There were, since 2004 to the end of 2015, 848 priests who were 118 00:11:21.649 --> 00:11:28.649 dismissed from the clerical status and reduced to the lay status, and several hundred more 119 00:11:31.040 --> 00:11:38.040 had received other types of penalties, so that together they are about 3,500 priests. 120 00:11:40.769 --> 00:11:46.019 AMY GOODMAN: Archbishop Tomasi went on to say the church has been addressing the crisis 121 00:11:46.019 --> 00:11:49.690 in a systematic and effective way over the past decade. 122 00:11:49.690 --> 00:11:55.589 ARCHBISHOP SILVANO TOMASI: Society is alive. It changes. It evolves. And so does the church 123 00:11:55.589 --> 00:12:02.589 in a lot of ways. And the culture of society that has affected the church changes, and 124 00:12:03.670 --> 00:12:10.670 now we are in a new moment. And if you look at the facts in a fair way, you see that a 125 00:12:11.850 --> 00:12:18.850 lot of measures have been taken by the Holy See, by local churches, that indeed are making 126 00:12:21.610 --> 00:12:28.610 a change and are effective in the work of prevention of sexual abuse of minors, in particular, 127 00:12:31.670 --> 00:12:36.560 and of a renewed attention to the victims of past abuses. 128 00:12:36.560 --> 00:12:41.470 AMY GOODMAN: A number of survivors of sexual abuse attended this week’s hearing, including 129 00:12:41.470 --> 00:12:47.250 our first guest, Barbara Blaine, president and founder of SNAP, Survivors Network of 130 00:12:47.250 --> 00:12:52.630 those Abused by Priests. She joins us by Democracy Now! video stream. We’re also joined by 131 00:12:52.630 --> 00:12:56.850 Katherine Gallagher, senior staff attorney at the Center for Constitutional Rights. She’s 132 00:12:56.850 --> 00:13:02.350 counsel for SNAP in their international advocacy work, and she just flew back from Geneva. 133 00:13:02.350 --> 00:13:07.329 Barbara Blaine, let’s begin with you. What is the result of the hearings? And do you 134 00:13:07.329 --> 00:13:09.610 find what the Vatican has done adequate? 135 00:13:09.610 --> 00:13:16.000 BARBARA BLAINE: Well, it seems as though the Vatican officials continue to split hairs 136 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:23.000 and try to dodge responsibility. They claim to not have the authority to stop the sexual 137 00:13:23.920 --> 00:13:30.920 violence, and we are convinced that they do and that they are making lofty statements, 138 00:13:31.220 --> 00:13:35.149 but they’re not really taking action that would protect children. 139 00:13:35.149 --> 00:13:40.310 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And the sheer numbers that they revealed, $2.5 billion that they say 140 00:13:40.310 --> 00:13:47.120 has been paid in compensation and 800 priests, could you respond to that? 141 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:52.360 BARBARA BLAINE: Well, I think it’s really important to recognize that numbers are not 142 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:59.180 going to protect children. We would say, where—what are the names of these individual predators, 143 00:13:59.180 --> 00:14:05.829 and where are they today? That kind of information is what would protect children. And we continue 144 00:14:05.829 --> 00:14:12.250 to receive reports that sexual predators remain in ministry. We think that Pope Francis and 145 00:14:12.250 --> 00:14:17.519 the Vatican should immediately remove all the sexual predators, and we think that they 146 00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:23.680 should be punishing the bishops who have transferred these predators and enabled them. 147 00:14:23.680 --> 00:14:29.839 AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about how broad, widespread the problem is? The numbers of 148 00:14:29.839 --> 00:14:35.779 priests that they’ve expelled, that they’ve punished, and the number of people that you 149 00:14:35.779 --> 00:14:37.180 think are involved? 150 00:14:37.180 --> 00:14:42.819 BARBARA BLAINE: Well, there’s no way of really knowing completely how many. The church’s 151 00:14:42.819 --> 00:14:49.819 own officials will admit to approximately 100,000 victims in the United States alone, 152 00:14:49.829 --> 00:14:56.829 but we believe there are many more. And our concern is that we keep hearing reports that 153 00:14:56.990 --> 00:15:03.259 priests who have been removed, allegedly removed, from ministry keep turning up, working in 154 00:15:03.259 --> 00:15:10.259 ministry in a new location. And so, we are not confident that children are not at risk. 155 00:15:11.100 --> 00:15:16.769 In fact, we believe there are children and vulnerable adults who are being raped and 156 00:15:16.769 --> 00:15:18.500 sodomized even today. 157 00:15:18.500 --> 00:15:23.930 AMY GOODMAN: Barbara, can you tell us your own story, why did you founded SNAP? What 158 00:15:23.930 --> 00:15:24.949 happened to you? 159 00:15:24.949 --> 00:15:31.949 BARBARA BLAINE: Well, when I was growing up over in Toledo, Ohio, the priest in my parish 160 00:15:31.990 --> 00:15:36.870 began to sexually violate me in the summer between seventh and eighth grade. I didn’t 161 00:15:36.870 --> 00:15:43.190 tell anyone 'til I was well into adulthood, assumed it was my fault and at the same time 162 00:15:43.190 --> 00:15:50.190 felt helpless to stop it. But it wasn't until I was into my thirties before I really went 163 00:15:51.110 --> 00:15:57.790 back to the church officials and tried to confront and face this. And when they didn’t 164 00:15:57.790 --> 00:16:03.860 help me, I started looking for other victims. And this was the 1980s, and there was a self-help 165 00:16:03.860 --> 00:16:09.920 group for everyone then, so we had a theory that we would just find each other and figure 166 00:16:09.920 --> 00:16:15.939 out how to find healing. Unfortunately, what we learned is that many of our perpetrators 167 00:16:15.939 --> 00:16:22.490 were still in ministry, and the church officials had really duped us into keeping us from law 168 00:16:22.490 --> 00:16:28.540 enforcement and promised that our perpetrators would be removed from ministry, when in fact 169 00:16:28.540 --> 00:16:30.040 that is not what happened. 170 00:16:30.040 --> 00:16:34.329 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Katherine Gallagher, I wanted to ask you, this is—this is a scandal that 171 00:16:34.329 --> 00:16:40.790 has been being exposed now for decades, and it continues to grow in size. The significance 172 00:16:40.790 --> 00:16:46.949 of now the United Nations Committee on Torture taking up this issue on the world scale? 173 00:16:46.949 --> 00:16:51.750 KATHERINE GALLAGHER: Yeah, we consider what happened this week quite historic. As you 174 00:16:51.750 --> 00:16:56.410 indicated, this is the second time this year that a U.N. body has called the Vatican to 175 00:16:56.410 --> 00:17:01.670 account for its actions. And bringing it to the international level is really the appropriate 176 00:17:01.670 --> 00:17:08.140 place. As Barbara pointed out, this is a global problem, and it requires a global response. 177 00:17:08.140 --> 00:17:14.170 SNAP has heard from victims in 79 countries. And for far too long, these acts have been 178 00:17:14.170 --> 00:17:20.450 called "sexual abuse" or "inappropriate touching." The actions have been minimized. What we’re 179 00:17:20.450 --> 00:17:24.530 hoping comes out of the Committee Against Torture is recognizing these acts for what 180 00:17:24.530 --> 00:17:30.280 they are—international crimes, torture, cruel and inhuman and degrading treatment—and 181 00:17:30.280 --> 00:17:36.730 that in doing so, it both validates what has been done to the survivors, the victims, the 182 00:17:36.730 --> 00:17:43.300 profound harm, as well as carries with it some of the legal triggers of recognizing 183 00:17:43.300 --> 00:17:48.120 torture, in terms of national prosecutions or even international action. 184 00:17:48.120 --> 00:17:54.120 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And this becomes possible because the Vatican only recently signed the 185 00:17:54.120 --> 00:17:54.880 Convention on Torture, isn’t it? 186 00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:59.460 KATHERINE GALLAGHER: Well, the Vatican actually signed the convention 12 years ago. As most 187 00:17:59.460 --> 00:18:04.030 countries come to report every three or four years, the Vatican was nine years late in 188 00:18:04.030 --> 00:18:10.150 putting in its first report. SNAP and the Center for Constitutional Rights went to the 189 00:18:10.150 --> 00:18:16.040 International Criminal Court in 2011, and since that time, we have seen international 190 00:18:16.040 --> 00:18:23.040 focus put on this issue and a real recharacterization of the problem as isolated to certain countries 191 00:18:23.300 --> 00:18:29.090 or, again, just sexual abuse, and really recognizing it for the global crimes that it is and the 192 00:18:29.090 --> 00:18:32.840 role of the higher-ups in the Vatican for enabling these crimes. 193 00:18:32.840 --> 00:18:38.260 AMY GOODMAN: What does it mean that the Holy See’s position about adherence to the U.N. 194 00:18:38.260 --> 00:18:43.100 Convention Against Torture applies only to the territory of Vatican City? 195 00:18:43.100 --> 00:18:46.100 KATHERINE GALLAGHER: Yes, this is something that we heard the Vatican press both before 196 00:18:46.100 --> 00:18:51.430 the Committee on the Rights of the Child and the Committee Against Torture, saying, "OK, 197 00:18:51.430 --> 00:18:55.940 the Vatican had signed onto these treaties, but it’s really only that small territory 198 00:18:55.940 --> 00:19:02.940 in Rome that the obligations apply to." Both committees pressed back on that and said, 199 00:19:03.650 --> 00:19:09.770 "No, anywhere where the Vatican has effective control over high-level officials, such as 200 00:19:09.770 --> 00:19:15.330 bishops and cardinals, where the policies and practices of the Vatican can be carried 201 00:19:15.330 --> 00:19:19.640 out." And, unfortunately, what we’ve seen so far is that those policies have been to 202 00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:26.640 cover up these crimes, to obstruct justice, to encourage secrecy and confidentiality. 203 00:19:27.410 --> 00:19:31.580 And hopefully what we’ll be seeing now is clear instructions from the Committee Against 204 00:19:31.580 --> 00:19:37.380 Torture that anywhere where you have effective control over church officials, they must in 205 00:19:37.380 --> 00:19:42.980 fact comply with national authorities, mandatory reporting requirements, they must turn over 206 00:19:42.980 --> 00:19:49.420 known suspected priests who have engaged in acts of rape and sexual violence, and really 207 00:19:49.420 --> 00:19:50.820 put an end to these crimes. 208 00:19:50.820 --> 00:19:55.390 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, some of the groups that attended the U.N. torture hearings in Geneva 209 00:19:55.390 --> 00:20:00.130 defended the Catholic Church. They said that the church is now a safe place for children. 210 00:20:00.130 --> 00:20:04.060 Ashley McGuire serves on the board of Catholic Voices USA. 211 00:20:04.060 --> 00:20:08.750 ASHLEY McGUIRE: The church has now actually become one of the safest places for children 212 00:20:08.750 --> 00:20:13.170 in the world. I think it’s certainly a source of great sadness, what happened with the sexual 213 00:20:13.170 --> 00:20:19.160 abuse crisis, but we’re in a different era now. And not only that, but the church is 214 00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:24.240 doing very important work on the front lines defending and helping children, helping women 215 00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:29.530 who are in difficult situations. And it would be—it would actually endanger them, I think, 216 00:20:29.530 --> 00:20:34.160 were this committee to label them essentially a sponsor of torture. 217 00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:39.040 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: That was Ashley McGuire of Catholic Voices. Barbara Blaine, your response? 218 00:20:39.040 --> 00:20:46.040 BARBARA BLAINE: Well, I just think that it’s—that is just not true. The evidence shows that—I 219 00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:53.160 mean, she cannot and has not shown even one bishop who has been punished for covering 220 00:20:53.250 --> 00:21:00.250 up these crimes and allowing these predators to remain in ministry. I mean, if Pope Francis 221 00:21:00.560 --> 00:21:07.360 were sincere and if he wanted to protect children, we believe that he would punish the bishops. 222 00:21:07.360 --> 00:21:14.360 For example, right now, there is a bishop in Kansas City who has been found guilty of 223 00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:21.120 endangering children, and he’s still the bishop. And so, when the Catholic Church officials 224 00:21:21.120 --> 00:21:27.780 claim that they have cleaned everything up, we keep saying, "But where is the evidence 225 00:21:27.780 --> 00:21:33.380 of that?" And we’re not finding it, and in fact we’re finding just the opposite. 226 00:21:33.380 --> 00:21:39.490 It was only a couple years ago that a grand jury report from Philadelphia indicated that 227 00:21:39.490 --> 00:21:46.490 the grand jurors had found 37 accused predators working in ministry within the Archdiocese 228 00:21:49.030 --> 00:21:54.080 of Philadelphia. And that’s actually one of the questions that the committee put to 229 00:21:54.080 --> 00:22:01.080 the Vatican officials. And as far as I heard, I did not hear any response to that question. 230 00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:09.440 And they asked specific questions, for example, about Father Jeyapaul, a priest, an Indian 231 00:22:09.530 --> 00:22:16.440 national, who had abused children in the—in a diocese in northern Minnesota, and he is 232 00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:22.940 still facing extradition and has not—has not returned to face the charges in Minnesota. 233 00:22:22.940 --> 00:22:29.740 And the church officials have been assisting him in his role as a fugitive and not insisting 234 00:22:29.740 --> 00:22:31.970 that he return to face those charges. 235 00:22:31.970 --> 00:22:37.440 AMY GOODMAN: Barbara, what do you recommend, as a survivor yourself? How do parents and 236 00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:41.590 kids deal, who go to church, to protect themselves? 237 00:22:41.590 --> 00:22:48.590 BARBARA BLAINE: Well, I think it’s really important that parents remain vigilant. It’s 238 00:22:48.930 --> 00:22:55.930 like in so many situations: No one wants to believe that someone that we revere and respect, 239 00:22:56.360 --> 00:23:02.680 someone who’s close to God, would actually sexually violate someone. And by all means, 240 00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:09.680 most priests don’t do this, but an alarming number—I mean, the church officials at the—Archbishop 241 00:23:10.590 --> 00:23:17.590 Tomasi admitted approximately 4 percent, and the statistics coming out from the U.S. Conference 242 00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:25.040 of Bishops would indicate it’s probably a little over 5 percent. But still, I think 243 00:23:25.040 --> 00:23:29.970 it’s important that they remain vigilant. And I think it’s really important that Pope 244 00:23:29.970 --> 00:23:36.040 Francis stop having all these lofty words and setting up a commission to study. We don’t 245 00:23:36.040 --> 00:23:42.090 need studies. Everyone knows that sexually violating a child is just—it’s a crime. 246 00:23:42.090 --> 00:23:48.070 And those things should be turned over to the police and not investigated in the church. 247 00:23:48.070 --> 00:23:51.130 And we should stop coddling and protecting the predators. 248 00:23:51.130 --> 00:23:56.010 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Katherine Gallagher, I wanted to raise a question about the failures of 249 00:23:56.010 --> 00:24:00.580 law enforcement in so many of these countries to actually pursue what is, in effect, crimes. 250 00:24:00.580 --> 00:24:07.230 I mean, generally speaking, the local archbishop in any community is a major figure, a powerful 251 00:24:07.230 --> 00:24:14.230 figure in a particular locality. And yet, time and again, the authorities have not really 252 00:24:14.560 --> 00:24:19.210 gone after, in a systematic way, this scandal and these abuses. 253 00:24:19.210 --> 00:24:23.000 KATHERINE GALLAGHER: That is definitely true. We’ve seen that slightly change in some 254 00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:27.310 jurisdictions here in the United States, and I would have to give credit to SNAP and other 255 00:24:27.310 --> 00:24:33.940 survivors who have really put—brought this problem to the attention of district attorneys 256 00:24:33.940 --> 00:24:39.160 and continue to press for investigations and prosecutions. But in far too many places around 257 00:24:39.160 --> 00:24:45.190 the world, particularly in Latin America, in Asia, in Africa, where we don’t hear 258 00:24:45.190 --> 00:24:49.320 the—about as many cases, it’s not because there isn’t a problem; it’s because we 259 00:24:49.320 --> 00:24:54.550 don’t have the investigations going on, we don’t have the prosecutions and the national 260 00:24:54.550 --> 00:24:59.790 commissions. So, I would call on law enforcement to national authorities to be much more vigilant 261 00:24:59.790 --> 00:25:05.600 and much more aggressive in investigating and prosecuting these cases and to not, you 262 00:25:05.600 --> 00:25:11.710 know, bow to the pressures of putting forward what may be seen as unpopular cases in some 263 00:25:11.710 --> 00:25:11.960 areas. 264 00:25:11.870 --> 00:25:15.430 AMY GOODMAN: Katherine, we’re going to link to your report, shadow report that you prepared 265 00:25:15.430 --> 00:25:21.290 for the U.N. Committee Against Torture. But what most surprised you in these findings? 266 00:25:21.290 --> 00:25:23.090 Among them, you talk about suicide. 267 00:25:23.090 --> 00:25:28.790 KATHERINE GALLAGHER: Yeah. The acts of torture documented in our report, with cover art by 268 00:25:28.790 --> 00:25:35.470 Megan Peterson, a survivor, quite powerful work, you know, the prevalent—I was mentioning 269 00:25:35.470 --> 00:25:41.350 torture includes a prevalent, severe mental harm. And we talk about survivors, but there 270 00:25:41.350 --> 00:25:47.800 are many people who have not survived these horrific acts. In Australia, they just found 271 00:25:47.800 --> 00:25:53.960 40 cases of suicide, because you lose your family, in many cases, your friends, your 272 00:25:53.960 --> 00:25:58.820 community. The isolation and the guilt, the victim blaming, this leads far too many people 273 00:25:58.820 --> 00:26:04.980 to take their own lives. And the church often refers to these as crimes of the past. We 274 00:26:04.980 --> 00:26:11.980 met with a survivor in Switzerland who himself was assaulted when he was a preteen, and his 275 00:26:13.160 --> 00:26:17.260 eight-year-old sister came home from school in the 1970s reporting that she, too, had 276 00:26:17.260 --> 00:26:23.130 been raped. Just last year, she took her own life, after decades of trying to battle this 277 00:26:23.130 --> 00:26:30.130 problem and living with the long-standing harm. So it’s really devastating, and we’re 278 00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:34.840 very glad that the Committee Against Torture is looking at this with the seriousness it 279 00:26:34.840 --> 00:26:35.090 needs. 280 00:26:35.010 --> 00:26:37.320 AMY GOODMAN: Well, Katherine Gallagher, we want to thank you for being with us, senior 281 00:26:37.320 --> 00:26:41.460 staff attorney at the Center for Constitutional Rights, for the last three years has served 282 00:26:41.460 --> 00:26:47.300 as counsel for SNAP. And Barbara Blaine, thanks for joining us from Prague, from the Czech 283 00:26:47.300 --> 00:26:51.330 Republic, after leaving Geneva, president and founder of SNAP, Survivors Network of 284 00:26:51.330 --> 00:26:54.350 those Abused by Priests. 285 00:26:54.350 --> 00:27:01.170 When we come back, we’re going to look at a different aspect of this issue: "By Grace 286 00:27:01.170 --> 00:27:06.290 Alone: As Sex-Abuse Allegations Multiply, Billy Graham’s Grandson is on a Mission 287 00:27:06.290 --> 00:27:13.290 to Persuade Protestant Churches to Come Clean." Stay with us. 288 00:28:08.820 --> 00:28:15.820 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: We turn now to a new exposé that asks if the Protestant world is teetering 289 00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:02.630 on the edge of a sex-abuse scandal similar to the one that has rocked the Catholic Church. 290 00:29:02.630 --> 00:29:08.180 The person trying to address the problem may surprise you. As sex-abuse allegations multiply, 291 00:29:08.180 --> 00:29:13.160 it is Reverend Billy Graham’s grandson who is on a mission to persuade Protestant churches 292 00:29:13.160 --> 00:29:20.110 to come clean. Kathryn Joyce’s cover story in The American Prospect profiles Boz Tchividjian, 293 00:29:20.110 --> 00:29:25.620 a law professor at Liberty University, a school founded by Reverend Jerry Falwell, and former 294 00:29:25.620 --> 00:29:31.160 prosecutor who has worked on many sex-abuse cases. He used his experience to found an 295 00:29:31.160 --> 00:29:36.290 organization called GRACE: Godly Response to Abuse in the Christian Environment. 296 00:29:36.290 --> 00:29:41.310 AMY GOODMAN: GRACE made headlines in February when the famous evangelical school, Bob Jones 297 00:29:41.310 --> 00:29:46.630 University, hired it to interview faculty and students about their experiences with 298 00:29:46.630 --> 00:29:52.480 sexual assault, then fired it before it had a chance to report the results, only to hire 299 00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:57.940 it back after a public outcry. Well, reporter Kathryn Joyce joins us now to discuss this 300 00:29:57.940 --> 00:30:02.450 major exposé, "By Grace Alone: As Sex-Abuse Allegations Multiply, Billy Graham’s Grandson 301 00:30:02.450 --> 00:30:07.320 is on a Mission to Persuade Protestant Churches to Come Clean." Kathryn Joyce is also the 302 00:30:07.320 --> 00:30:14.320 author of The Child Catchers: Rescue, Trafficking, and the New Gospel of Adoption and Quiverfull: 303 00:30:14.680 --> 00:30:16.860 Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement. 304 00:30:16.860 --> 00:30:22.230 Kathryn, welcome to Democracy Now! Why don’t you begin where you began your piece? 305 00:30:22.230 --> 00:30:28.320 KATHRYN JOYCE: Sure. Well, in 2012, there was some pretty remarkable news that came 306 00:30:28.320 --> 00:30:35.270 out of Bob Jones University, which for decades has been the flagship school of fundamentalism 307 00:30:35.270 --> 00:30:41.290 in this entire country. In a lot of ways, Bob Jones is more than a school. It’s the 308 00:30:41.290 --> 00:30:48.290 center of a nationwide network of Bob Jones-affiliated churches, feeder schools. They ran a curriculum 309 00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:55.380 business, a music publisher. It was really just a foundational institution in the most 310 00:30:55.380 --> 00:31:00.950 kind of extreme conservative Christianity that we have schools for in this country. 311 00:31:00.950 --> 00:31:06.490 But in 2012 they announced that they were hiring this organization, GRACE, to come in 312 00:31:06.490 --> 00:31:13.490 and do an assessment of how they had handled allegations of rape, of sexual assault, of 313 00:31:13.730 --> 00:31:19.440 sexual harassment that had happened on their campus. And it was really surprising, not 314 00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:25.290 just because Bob Jones has been such a remarkably insular institution, with people kind of being 315 00:31:25.290 --> 00:31:29.410 born at the hospital on Bob Jones campus and living their entire lives within this kind 316 00:31:29.410 --> 00:31:34.190 of total institution, but because they were reaching out to Billy Graham’s grandson, 317 00:31:34.190 --> 00:31:41.190 Boz Tchividjian, because Billy Graham and Bob Jones Sr., Bob Jones I, had just a historic 318 00:31:41.670 --> 00:31:46.940 falling out, that really led to the schism that we see today between evangelicalism and 319 00:31:46.940 --> 00:31:47.250 fundamentalism. 320 00:31:47.250 --> 00:31:49.600 AMY GOODMAN: Tell us who Tina Anderson is. 321 00:31:49.600 --> 00:31:56.600 KATHRYN JOYCE: Sure. Well, Tina Anderson was a 15-year-old church member of a church, a 322 00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:02.470 fundamentalist church in New Hampshire. And about 15 years ago, she was raped by her church 323 00:32:02.470 --> 00:32:07.000 deacon, for whom she babysat. And she became pregnant. And when she and her mother went 324 00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:12.390 to their pastor, who was, by the way, a board member of Bob Jones University, rather than 325 00:32:12.390 --> 00:32:18.890 help them go to the police or confront her rapist, he had her stand before the entire 326 00:32:18.890 --> 00:32:23.630 church while he read a confession of her pregnancy and then sent her away, essentially, out of 327 00:32:23.630 --> 00:32:30.260 state to deliver her child. So, for a lot of critics of Bob Jones, former alumni who 328 00:32:30.260 --> 00:32:34.120 had become dissatisfied with the way the school handled a lot of different things, including 329 00:32:34.120 --> 00:32:40.160 sexual assault and harassment, this became a sort of emblematic moment: This is how Bob 330 00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:45.860 Jones deals with rape—they blame the woman, they send her away. And so this became a really 331 00:32:45.860 --> 00:32:49.520 galvanizing moment, and from there, they demanded that GRACE be hired. 332 00:32:49.520 --> 00:32:54.470 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Let’s hear from Tina Anderson in her own words. ABC’s 20/20 interviewed 333 00:32:54.470 --> 00:33:00.650 her in 2011. In this clip, she describes what happened after she and her mother reported 334 00:33:00.650 --> 00:33:03.000 the rape to Phelps. 335 00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:08.200 TINA ANDERSON: Pastor Phelps took me to a passage in Deuteronomy where it talks about 336 00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:14.150 if a girl doesn’t cry out, that she obviously was a part of it. And he told me that I was 337 00:33:14.150 --> 00:33:17.370 lucky I didn’t live in Old Testament times, because I would have been stoned. 338 00:33:17.370 --> 00:33:19.220 ELIZABETH VARGAS: Stoned to death. TINA ANDERSON: Correct. 339 00:33:19.220 --> 00:33:21.140 ELIZABETH VARGAS: For being pregnant. TINA ANDERSON: Yes. 340 00:33:21.140 --> 00:33:24.940 ELIZABETH VARGAS: For being raped. TINA ANDERSON: Yeah, because I think Ernie 341 00:33:24.940 --> 00:33:29.280 claimed it was consensual. ELIZABETH VARGAS: Did it matter to Pastor 342 00:33:29.280 --> 00:33:32.520 Phelps that a 15-year-old girl can’t legally give her consent? 343 00:33:32.520 --> 00:33:34.650 TINA ANDERSON: No. ELIZABETH VARGAS: During the meeting, Tina 344 00:33:34.650 --> 00:33:39.590 was also alarmed by a remark she alleges Pastor Phelps’s wife Linda made. 345 00:33:39.590 --> 00:33:43.710 She actually asked you if you enjoyed having sex with Mr. Willis? 346 00:33:43.710 --> 00:33:48.620 TINA ANDERSON: Yes. I was in complete shock, and I think I was just blown away that that 347 00:33:48.620 --> 00:33:52.140 would even cross her mind. ELIZABETH VARGAS: Linda Phelps denies saying 348 00:33:52.140 --> 00:33:56.840 that, but according to Tina, Pastor Phelps tells her to write a statement asking church 349 00:33:56.840 --> 00:34:01.070 members to forgive her transgression. TINA ANDERSON: For allowing a compromising 350 00:34:01.070 --> 00:34:03.860 situation to occur, because I had let him in my house. 351 00:34:03.860 --> 00:34:10.649 ELIZABETH VARGAS: Which brings us back to that October Sunday in 1997. Hundreds of congregants 352 00:34:10.649 --> 00:34:15.510 filled the pews at Trinity Baptist Church. Children and teenagers are asked to leave 353 00:34:15.510 --> 00:34:18.149 the sanctuary. TINA ANDERSON: Then Pastor Phelps said, "We 354 00:34:18.149 --> 00:34:21.089 have a matter of church discipline to deal with." 355 00:34:21.089 --> 00:34:26.179 ELIZABETH VARGAS: First, Ernie Willis stands up and admits to adultery and asks for forgiveness. 356 00:34:26.179 --> 00:34:30.349 TINA ANDERSON: And then Pastor Phelps said, "Here’s a completely different matter," 357 00:34:30.349 --> 00:34:34.629 and made me get up, and he read my letter and then told everybody I was pregnant. 358 00:34:34.629 --> 00:34:38.639 ELIZABETH VARGAS: What did that feel like standing there in front of that entire church 359 00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:42.609 having that letter read? TINA ANDERSON: Completely humiliating. I was 360 00:34:42.609 --> 00:34:43.059 sobbing. 361 00:34:43.059 --> 00:34:50.059 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: That was Tina Anderson being interviewed on 20/20 back in 2011. Her pastor, 362 00:34:50.609 --> 00:34:55.129 Chuck Phelps, as you mentioned, went on to become the president of Maranatha Baptist 363 00:34:55.129 --> 00:35:00.640 Bible College in Wisconsin and served on the board of trustees of Bob Jones University, 364 00:35:00.640 --> 00:35:06.259 as well as on its missionary and youth camp boards. And so, once again, here, as in the 365 00:35:06.259 --> 00:35:09.400 stuff we’ve been looking at the Catholic Church, we’re seeing this church trying 366 00:35:09.400 --> 00:35:16.400 to handle this all internally, protecting the perpetrator, and no criminal charges or 367 00:35:16.789 --> 00:35:19.180 even exposure beyond the church occurring. 368 00:35:19.180 --> 00:35:24.269 KATHRYN JOYCE: Absolutely, and I think this is—this is sort of the message that GRACE 369 00:35:24.269 --> 00:35:30.799 says that they put out there, is that way too often churches respond to these stories, 370 00:35:30.799 --> 00:35:35.849 which do happen in all culture, which happen in secular cultures just as much as in religious 371 00:35:35.849 --> 00:35:39.890 cultures, but a lot of times churches respond by circling the troops, by saying, "We need 372 00:35:39.890 --> 00:35:44.690 to protect the cause of Christ. If we let this get out, this is going to damage our 373 00:35:44.690 --> 00:35:49.769 ability to save souls, and so we need to keep this quiet." And as we could see from that 374 00:35:49.769 --> 00:35:55.710 clip, I mean, that’s just—that’s horrifying, to put that on a young girl and make her carry, 375 00:35:55.710 --> 00:35:59.859 you know, the weight of that assault in order to protect the church’s reputation. 376 00:35:59.859 --> 00:36:03.950 AMY GOODMAN: So can you talk about what’s happened with the investigation at Bob Jones 377 00:36:03.950 --> 00:36:10.819 University and then talk about the next investigation of GRACE, the MKs, the missionary kids? 378 00:36:10.819 --> 00:36:16.339 KATHRYN JOYCE: Sure. Well, the Bob Jones investigation is still ongoing currently. The report has 379 00:36:16.339 --> 00:36:22.869 not yet been released. But what happened was, after about a year of doing interviews with 380 00:36:22.869 --> 00:36:28.940 about—I think more than 100 students and former staff and current staff, Bob Jones 381 00:36:28.940 --> 00:36:35.640 pulled back, and just a few weeks before GRACE was finishing its last interviews with staff, 382 00:36:35.640 --> 00:36:39.640 Bob Jones pulled back, and then they sent, out of the blue, a termination letter to GRACE 383 00:36:39.640 --> 00:36:45.690 saying, you know, "We’re letting you go. You’ve done amazing work, but we’re terminating 384 00:36:45.690 --> 00:36:50.799 you. And let’s get together and form a new contract." There was no reason given for this. 385 00:36:50.799 --> 00:36:55.240 And everybody who was observing this and everyone who was close to the matter thought that there 386 00:36:55.240 --> 00:37:00.359 was really only one explanation, which is that GRACE had found things that Bob Jones 387 00:37:00.359 --> 00:37:05.089 did not want them to find and make public. There was a massive outcry. This was covered 388 00:37:05.089 --> 00:37:10.099 everywhere from The New York Times to The Washington Post. Conservatives were condemning 389 00:37:10.099 --> 00:37:14.210 it just as much as liberals. The American Conservative wrote some very scathing pieces 390 00:37:14.210 --> 00:37:19.589 about Bob Jones’s decision. And eventually they hired them back. And as far as I know 391 00:37:19.589 --> 00:37:24.630 now, GRACE put out a statement about a month ago saying that right about now they are finishing 392 00:37:24.630 --> 00:37:28.769 up their interviews and beginning to draft their final report. So we should see that 393 00:37:28.769 --> 00:37:30.170 in the next couple of months. 394 00:37:30.170 --> 00:37:35.640 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Now, your article also focuses considerably on Boz Tchividjian and GRACE. 395 00:37:35.640 --> 00:37:40.849 Could you talk about how he got involved, the grandson of Billy Graham, in this issue 396 00:37:40.849 --> 00:37:45.890 and why it’s so important that he has been taking a lead in this? 397 00:37:45.890 --> 00:37:52.109 KATHRYN JOYCE: Absolutely. Well, Boz started—Boz is a lawyer, and he got his start in his career 398 00:37:52.109 --> 00:37:59.109 as a criminal sex-abuse prosecutor in Central Florida. And while he was there, he told me 399 00:37:59.210 --> 00:38:04.920 that he noticed this upsetting pattern among his colleagues. A lot of them tended to plea 400 00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:10.339 out sex-abuse cases very quickly, as though it was too horrible to dwell on, to take to 401 00:38:10.339 --> 00:38:15.329 court. And so he eventually asked the district attorney if he could take on all of those 402 00:38:15.329 --> 00:38:20.599 cases, and he ended up establishing a sex crimes unit within the DA’s office there. 403 00:38:20.599 --> 00:38:24.589 And they prosecuted hundreds of cases over eight years that he was there. 404 00:38:24.589 --> 00:38:30.049 And during that time, he came to see some, also, additionally troubling patterns with 405 00:38:30.049 --> 00:38:35.740 regards to how religion played a role in this. Whenever pastors came to court in a supportive 406 00:38:35.740 --> 00:38:39.359 role, almost always, he noticed, they were sitting on the side of the accused. They were 407 00:38:39.359 --> 00:38:44.650 sitting behind the defendants’ table, rather than there to support the victims. He was 408 00:38:44.650 --> 00:38:50.000 starting to hear stories from around the country. People were calling him and asking, saying, 409 00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:55.640 "I had this situation in my church where, you know, some girls were molested. The father 410 00:38:55.640 --> 00:39:02.099 went to the pastor. The pastor counseled them that, you know, 'Look, the abuser is very 411 00:39:02.099 --> 00:39:06.519 repentant. How about we just have him get more involved in church life, and will that 412 00:39:06.519 --> 00:39:11.309 be repentance enough and we can forgo reporting this to the police?'" So, he was starting 413 00:39:11.309 --> 00:39:17.650 to see some patterns of just kind of the absolute wrong reaction to sex abuse and molestation 414 00:39:17.650 --> 00:39:18.140 and rape. 415 00:39:18.140 --> 00:39:23.170 AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to Boz Tchividjian in his own words—yes, the grandson of Reverend 416 00:39:23.170 --> 00:39:28.130 Billy Graham, the former prosecutor who’s now the founder of GRACE, which again stands 417 00:39:28.130 --> 00:39:34.730 for Godly Response to Abuse in a Christian Environment. Tchividjian spoke at a conference 418 00:39:34.730 --> 00:39:38.349 last year about sexual offenders in the Christian community. 419 00:39:38.349 --> 00:39:43.230 BOZ TCHIVIDJIAN: See, oftentimes offenders, when they start abusing, especially depending 420 00:39:43.230 --> 00:39:47.650 on the age, there comes a point oftentimes, not always, where the child, as they get older, 421 00:39:47.650 --> 00:39:52.759 starts to say, "Wait a minute, I don’t think there’s something wrong with us." And so, 422 00:39:52.759 --> 00:39:58.559 this child starts asking questions. The child starts to resist. The child starts to be more 423 00:39:58.559 --> 00:40:03.630 cautious about what’s going on. And so, what you have is, you start off with, when 424 00:40:03.630 --> 00:40:07.819 the child’s younger, this is an expression of God’s love. And when the child starts 425 00:40:07.819 --> 00:40:13.259 resisting and starts asking questions and starts putting up some roadblocks, what does 426 00:40:13.259 --> 00:40:17.279 the offender do? This is where you see the true heart and deception of the offender. 427 00:40:17.279 --> 00:40:21.470 They now take a biblical truth that they’ve been distorting to abuse the child, and now 428 00:40:21.470 --> 00:40:27.450 they take that same truth and distort it to silence the child: "You should be ashamed 429 00:40:27.450 --> 00:40:34.019 of your sin." Distancing from God, "Because of your sin, God doesn’t care about you. 430 00:40:34.019 --> 00:40:41.019 But I do." Can you think of others? See, this is—this is from the pit of hell, I really 431 00:40:41.460 --> 00:40:48.170 believe that, because this is taking—this is taking God’s beautiful truths and using 432 00:40:48.170 --> 00:40:50.609 them to eviscerate a soul. 433 00:40:50.609 --> 00:40:55.529 AMY GOODMAN: That’s Boz Tchividjian in his own words, the grandson of Reverend Billy 434 00:40:55.529 --> 00:41:00.140 Graham. And what did his father and grandfather say about what he was doing, what he is doing? 435 00:41:00.140 --> 00:41:06.319 KATHRYN JOYCE: Well, it seems to me that he has full support from all members of his family. 436 00:41:06.319 --> 00:41:13.039 I did not get a chance to speak with his grandfather, but I understand that all members of his family 437 00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:18.259 are very supportive. I know his uncle, kind of a controversial character, Franklin Graham, 438 00:41:18.259 --> 00:41:25.259 has actually hired him to implement some sex-abuse awareness and prevention training in his own 439 00:41:25.630 --> 00:41:28.940 very large Christian relief organization, Samaritan’s Purse. 440 00:41:28.940 --> 00:41:34.009 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And what about this—you cover what is happening at Bob Jones University. 441 00:41:34.009 --> 00:41:39.619 You also talk about—and maybe you can expand on it—the issue of abuse among missionary 442 00:41:39.619 --> 00:41:44.460 children. But also, what about the traditional Protestant churches—the Methodists, the 443 00:41:44.460 --> 00:41:46.150 Lutherans, the Episcopalians? 444 00:41:46.150 --> 00:41:47.259 KATHRYN JOYCE: Sure. 445 00:41:47.259 --> 00:41:52.180 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Are there any churches that are actively doing what you consider to be 446 00:41:52.180 --> 00:41:56.720 a positive effort to be able to root out this kind of abuse in their ranks? 447 00:41:56.720 --> 00:42:01.819 KATHRYN JOYCE: Sure. Well, on the second point, first, absolutely, there are a lot of churches 448 00:42:01.819 --> 00:42:07.809 that are being very proactive about this. And GRACE has a hand in that. I got to attend 449 00:42:07.809 --> 00:42:14.809 one of GRACE’s sex-abuse prevention trainings at a relatively small church in Calvary in 450 00:42:15.180 --> 00:42:21.430 Central Bucks County in Pennsylvania. It was Calvary Chapel Church. And the pastor there 451 00:42:21.430 --> 00:42:27.289 had made it mandatory for all of his staff and volunteers to come and learn about this, 452 00:42:27.289 --> 00:42:30.910 so there were hundreds of people that were attending this training, because they were 453 00:42:30.910 --> 00:42:34.059 mandated to, and then hundreds more came just because they were very concerned about the 454 00:42:34.059 --> 00:42:34.990 issue. 455 00:42:34.990 --> 00:42:39.269 And I understand that that’s something that is happening really kind of across the board, 456 00:42:39.269 --> 00:42:42.799 in the mainline churches, as you said, the Methodists and the Presbyterians, but also 457 00:42:42.799 --> 00:42:47.829 in the more conservative churches. To give credit where it’s due, the Southern Baptist 458 00:42:47.829 --> 00:42:52.329 Convention, which is the largest Protestant denomination in this country and the second-largest 459 00:42:52.329 --> 00:42:58.190 church after the Catholics in this country, they passed a resolution last year saying 460 00:42:58.190 --> 00:43:04.769 that the denomination had to be better about responding to and reporting sex abuse. I know 461 00:43:04.769 --> 00:43:09.410 one of the conservative Presbyterian denominations is doing the same thing later this year. 462 00:43:09.410 --> 00:43:10.930 AMY GOODMAN: And the missionary kids? 463 00:43:10.930 --> 00:43:15.990 KATHRYN JOYCE: And for the missionary kids, these were the subject of GRACE’s two first 464 00:43:15.990 --> 00:43:21.769 investigation, two different very large international missionary groups, where the children of the 465 00:43:21.769 --> 00:43:27.700 missionaries being stationed in foreign countries, known in Christian culture as MKs, missionary 466 00:43:27.700 --> 00:43:34.700 kids, they were enduring just kind of epidemic levels of sexual abuse in a number of different 467 00:43:35.089 --> 00:43:39.930 countries. GRACE’s reports focused on two in particular, on the New Tribes Mission and 468 00:43:39.930 --> 00:43:46.359 their boarding school in Fanda, Senegal, and also ABWE, another missionary organization, 469 00:43:46.359 --> 00:43:52.650 and what happened on the mission field they had in the 1980s in Bangladesh. And two different 470 00:43:52.650 --> 00:43:58.339 situations, but a lot of similarities, in some ways, in that these were both kind of 471 00:43:58.339 --> 00:44:04.809 very authoritarian atmospheres where children were expected to do what any adult kind of 472 00:44:04.809 --> 00:44:10.119 in their world was telling them to do, and this made them, sadly, kind of very vulnerable 473 00:44:10.119 --> 00:44:11.670 to abusers who came by. 474 00:44:11.670 --> 00:44:17.069 AMY GOODMAN: And you’re talking about the missionary kids. What about the people in 475 00:44:17.069 --> 00:44:21.009 the communities they come to, for example, in Senegal or in Bangladesh? What happens 476 00:44:21.009 --> 00:44:21.609 to them? 477 00:44:21.609 --> 00:44:26.940 KATHRYN JOYCE: I’m sure that there are stories there, as well. GRACE’s two reports in these 478 00:44:26.940 --> 00:44:31.490 situations focused on what happened to the children of missionaries, but I’m sure there 479 00:44:31.490 --> 00:44:36.339 are even more untold stories in terms of the children already living there who were, in 480 00:44:36.339 --> 00:44:37.109 many ways, much more vulnerable. 481 00:44:37.109 --> 00:44:41.390 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: In some of your writings, you’ve dealt with the issue of patriarchy 482 00:44:41.390 --> 00:44:48.390 and its relationship to religious thinking. Any sense on your part whether there are structural 483 00:44:50.049 --> 00:44:55.599 or philosophical directions in the churches that allow this kind of stuff to be covered 484 00:44:55.599 --> 00:44:55.859 up? 485 00:44:55.859 --> 00:45:02.859 KATHRYN JOYCE: Well, I think, absolutely. And obviously, not all very conservative Christians 486 00:45:03.029 --> 00:45:09.799 or all members of the self-described patriarchy movement are going to be abusive. But reading 487 00:45:09.799 --> 00:45:14.200 all of these reports and looking at all of this and speaking to dozens of people, it 488 00:45:14.200 --> 00:45:20.369 kind of does become clear—and GRACE’s assertion—that a main factor contributing 489 00:45:20.369 --> 00:45:27.369 to abuse and the silencing of abuse, of victims, is authoritarian structures that focus much 490 00:45:27.859 --> 00:45:34.450 more on rigid rule following, on hierarchies within a church or within a community, on 491 00:45:34.450 --> 00:45:39.230 the subordinate role of women and children. And when you have all of these things coming 492 00:45:39.230 --> 00:45:46.230 together alongside a culture that sees it as imperative to cover up mistakes so that 493 00:45:46.670 --> 00:45:51.880 you can still promote the cause of Christ, that you are being a good evangelical witness, 494 00:45:51.880 --> 00:45:56.940 a lot of these things conspire to make abuse not just more common, but much more invisible. 495 00:45:56.940 --> 00:46:00.900 AMY GOODMAN: Finally, what most surprised you, Kathryn Joyce, in your investigation? 496 00:46:00.900 --> 00:46:07.309 KATHRYN JOYCE: Well, I think what surprised me the most was watching in real time this 497 00:46:07.309 --> 00:46:12.079 pattern happen of GRACE going and starting and doing this investigation, getting a year 498 00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:17.650 into it, having spoken to dozens, a hundred of people, and then having the institution 499 00:46:17.650 --> 00:46:22.380 back out. This had happened once before with the mission group ABWE, and then it happened 500 00:46:22.380 --> 00:46:27.970 again with Bob Jones. And it was very interesting to see that. And it raised this interesting 501 00:46:27.970 --> 00:46:33.359 question about whether or not there is a catch-22 at the heart of GRACE’s incredibly admirable 502 00:46:33.359 --> 00:46:37.670 mission, that they are being hired by the groups that they’re investigating. And I 503 00:46:37.670 --> 00:46:41.789 think that that’s a really interesting question to ponder, but I think we also have to look 504 00:46:41.789 --> 00:46:44.660 at their work and say that this is very well—very much needed. 505 00:46:44.660 --> 00:46:49.230 AMY GOODMAN: Bob Jones University is based in Greenville, South Carolina. That does it 506 00:46:49.230 --> 00:46:53.680 for this segment, but we’ll continue to follow this. Kathryn Joyce, thanks so much 507 00:46:53.680 --> 00:46:54.890 for your report . 508 00:46:54.890 --> 00:46:55.359 KATHRYN JOYCE: Thank you. 509 00:46:55.359 --> 00:46:59.670 AMY GOODMAN: Cover story of The American Prospect, "By Grace Alone: As Sex-Abuse Allegations 510 00:46:59.670 --> 00:47:03.900 Multiply, Billy Graham’s Grandson is on a Mission to Persuade Protestant Churches 511 00:47:03.900 --> 00:47:10.900 to Come Clean." We’ll link to it online. Also, Kathryn is author of The Child Catchers: 512 00:47:11.960 --> 00:47:15.710 Rescue, Trafficking, and the New Gospel of Adoption and Quiverfull: Inside the Christian 513 00:47:15.710 --> 00:47:17.029 Patriarchy Movement. 514 00:47:17.029 --> 00:47:24.029 When we come back, we go to Connecticut to a 16-year-old trans girl. How is it that she 515 00:47:24.240 --> 00:47:31.240 ended up in solitary confinement in prison? She has not committed any crime. Stay with 516 00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:36.039 us. 517 00:48:48.749 --> 00:48:55.749 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Imprisoned in solitary confinement without any criminal charges—that’s the 518 00:49:32.289 --> 00:49:38.349 plight of a 16-year-old transgender girl of color in Connecticut known as "Jane Doe." 519 00:49:38.349 --> 00:49:43.049 One month ago today, a Superior Court judge ordered her to be sent to prison after the 520 00:49:43.049 --> 00:49:48.349 Connecticut Department of Children and Families requested the transfer, claiming they couldn’t 521 00:49:48.349 --> 00:49:54.069 safely care for her. The move is allowed under a rarely used Connecticut statute. To justify 522 00:49:54.069 --> 00:50:00.119 sending Jane Doe to prison, DCF cited her alleged history of violent behavior. But in 523 00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:06.029 an affidavit to the court, Jane Doe wrote, quote, "I feel that DCF has failed to protect 524 00:50:06.029 --> 00:50:11.200 me from harm and I am now thrown into prison because they have refused to help me." She 525 00:50:11.200 --> 00:50:16.970 goes on to detail how she was repeatedly sexually and physically abused from the age of eight 526 00:50:16.970 --> 00:50:23.970 to 15 at the hands of both relatives and DCF staff, all while she was under the supervision 527 00:50:24.390 --> 00:50:25.299 of the DCF. 528 00:50:25.299 --> 00:50:31.140 AMY GOODMAN: Jane Doe is being held in an adult women’s prison in Niantic, Connecticut. 529 00:50:31.140 --> 00:50:36.239 Last month, she described her experience there in The Hartford Courant, writing, quote, "I’m 530 00:50:36.239 --> 00:50:41.549 in my room 22 hours a day with a guard staring at me—even when I shower and go to the bathroom. 531 00:50:41.549 --> 00:50:46.319 It’s humiliating. Women constantly scream and cry and it was hard to sleep. They moved 532 00:50:46.319 --> 00:50:51.130 me down a different hallway where it’s not as crazy. I tell myself [that] this is just 533 00:50:51.130 --> 00:50:52.989 a nightmare, but it doesn’t end." 534 00:50:52.989 --> 00:50:56.700 Well, to talk more about Jane Doe’s case, we’re joined by Aaron Romano, Jane Doe’s 535 00:50:56.700 --> 00:51:01.190 lawyer in federal court. He’s speaking to us by audio stream from Hartford, Connecticut. 536 00:51:01.190 --> 00:51:05.190 And here in New York we’re joined by Chase Strangio, staff attorney with the ACLU’s 537 00:51:05.190 --> 00:51:06.259 LGBT Project. 538 00:51:06.259 --> 00:51:13.259 We welcome you both to Democracy Now! Let’s begin with Aaron Romano. Tell us just where 539 00:51:13.420 --> 00:51:16.410 Jane Doe is now and what has happened to her? 540 00:51:16.410 --> 00:51:21.220 AARON ROMANO: So, Jane Doe is in an adult female facility in Connecticut. There’s 541 00:51:21.220 --> 00:51:26.579 only one female facility in Connecticut. And because of her status as a juvenile, she has 542 00:51:26.579 --> 00:51:32.690 to be separated from any and all—from sight and sound from any and all adults. So she’s 543 00:51:32.690 --> 00:51:37.910 in virtual isolation from anyone else in that jail. 544 00:51:37.910 --> 00:51:44.910 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And why are they—why is the state claiming that they have so much 545 00:51:46.239 --> 00:51:48.140 problem being able to handle her? 546 00:51:48.140 --> 00:51:54.130 AARON ROMANO: Well, you covered that a little bit here. She was in DCF supervision from 547 00:51:54.130 --> 00:51:59.829 the age of five and sexually abused from the age of eight through 15. So that was about 548 00:51:59.829 --> 00:52:04.789 seven years of sexual abuse that she suffered. While she was in a residential treatment facility, 549 00:52:04.789 --> 00:52:11.789 through DCF supervision, a staff member aggressively approached her, placed her in an illegal restraint. 550 00:52:12.640 --> 00:52:18.859 That staff member was later discharged for that illegal restraint. And she defended herself. 551 00:52:18.859 --> 00:52:23.650 After experiencing sexual abuse for close to seven years, a child will have a certain 552 00:52:23.650 --> 00:52:29.609 sensitivity to touch or approach and may interpret certain situations from a very defensive perspective. 553 00:52:29.609 --> 00:52:34.930 And the staff should have been well aware of that. So in response to that, DCF just 554 00:52:34.930 --> 00:52:39.670 wanted to pass the buck on, so to speak, to the Department of Corrections, and they wanted 555 00:52:39.670 --> 00:52:43.650 to just dump her on the Department of Corrections and say, "Listen, we don’t want to take 556 00:52:43.650 --> 00:52:46.069 care of her anymore. You take care of her." 557 00:52:46.069 --> 00:52:50.339 AMY GOODMAN: Jane Doe is a trans girl. Why was she placed in a male prison? 558 00:52:50.339 --> 00:52:55.190 AARON ROMANO: Well, she’s actually not in a male prison now, but the original intention 559 00:52:55.190 --> 00:53:01.109 of the DCF, in their motion, was to place her in a male facility, in full denigration 560 00:53:01.109 --> 00:53:08.109 of her status as a trans female. Why they intended on doing that, I don’t know. DCF—DCF’s 561 00:53:08.900 --> 00:53:13.109 mandate is to act in the best interest of their children. Knowing full well that she’s 562 00:53:13.109 --> 00:53:20.109 a transgender female, to put her in a male facility would just create a condition of, 563 00:53:20.589 --> 00:53:22.880 in no certain terms, harm to her. 564 00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:28.859 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And what about the issue of DCF or the Department of Children and Families’ 565 00:53:28.859 --> 00:53:33.779 responsibilities in this case, given the fact that she claims she was abused while she was 566 00:53:33.779 --> 00:53:34.989 under their custody? 567 00:53:34.989 --> 00:53:39.339 AARON ROMANO: Well, that’s curious, because what it does is it brings to light some of 568 00:53:39.339 --> 00:53:46.339 the issues that affect DCF agencies across the nation. DCF agencies historically have 569 00:53:47.079 --> 00:53:52.890 had some difficulty in dealing with children who suffer from sexual abuse or just abuse 570 00:53:52.890 --> 00:53:58.890 generally. There needs to be more funding for DCF agencies, so they can create safe 571 00:53:58.890 --> 00:54:03.210 environments for these children if they have to be removed from their families. As we can 572 00:54:03.210 --> 00:54:08.589 see here, there’s a lack of facilities that are available for children like Jane. 573 00:54:08.589 --> 00:54:13.700 AMY GOODMAN: In her affidavit to the court, Jane Doe details a litany of sexual abuse 574 00:54:13.700 --> 00:54:18.660 that took place under the Department of Children and Families supervision at the hands of relatives 575 00:54:18.660 --> 00:54:23.499 and the staff at DCF, starting when she was eight. She wrote, quote, "At about [age] 12 576 00:54:23.499 --> 00:54:27.710 I was placed by DCF at a residential facility ... in Massachusetts, where a worker ... used 577 00:54:27.710 --> 00:54:32.380 to show the other children pornographic magazines, and on two occasions I was in his office and 578 00:54:32.380 --> 00:54:37.289 he had me perform oral sex on him. At about [age] 13, at Connecticut Children’s Place 579 00:54:37.289 --> 00:54:41.420 [a DCF facility], a staff member ... took me off school grounds and took me and another 580 00:54:41.420 --> 00:54:45.609 transgender female to the movies and dinner. In the parking lot after dinner, the other 581 00:54:45.609 --> 00:54:50.089 transgender female performed oral sex on him and he drove to a more secluded place where 582 00:54:50.089 --> 00:54:55.999 we both performed oral sex on him. ... At about age 13, at CCP, another boy who was 583 00:54:55.999 --> 00:54:59.900 a resident came into my room at night, placed his hand over my mouth [and then] placed my 584 00:54:59.900 --> 00:55:06.670 face into a pillow and anally raped me." She goes on to detail multiple other incidents 585 00:55:06.670 --> 00:55:11.650 of sexual violence, including abuse she experienced while working as a sex worker, writing, quote, 586 00:55:11.650 --> 00:55:18.650 "I am tortured by these memories." Chase Strangio of the ACLU, talk about what has happened 587 00:55:18.680 --> 00:55:23.519 to this young transgender woman, now in prison, in solitary. 588 00:55:23.519 --> 00:55:28.979 CHASE STRANGIO: I mean, I think, unfortunately, what this case shows is it’s a part of a 589 00:55:28.979 --> 00:55:35.700 much larger and systemic problem with our—both our criminal and our civil confinement systems, 590 00:55:35.700 --> 00:55:41.489 whereby trans people, particularly trans girls and trans women of color, are just placed 591 00:55:41.489 --> 00:55:46.069 in solitary confinement as a matter of course. And it’s almost always done ostensibly for 592 00:55:46.069 --> 00:55:50.579 their safety, but what we know is that the harms of solitary confinement are absolutely 593 00:55:50.579 --> 00:55:57.279 devastating. They’re particularly devastating for young people, whose brains are still developing, 594 00:55:57.279 --> 00:56:01.680 who are still growing, and then they’re even more traumatic for people who have a 595 00:56:01.680 --> 00:56:07.460 history of trauma, like Jane does. And what we also know from about a decade of comments 596 00:56:07.460 --> 00:56:12.460 to the Prison Rape Elimination Act is that trans people, who are almost universally housed 597 00:56:12.460 --> 00:56:18.279 in solitary confinement, are more vulnerable to sexual abuse while in solitary, from—usually 598 00:56:18.279 --> 00:56:19.690 from officers and other staff. 599 00:56:19.690 --> 00:56:26.690 AMY GOODMAN: And the figures, the statistics are staggering. Among all transgender people, 600 00:56:27.489 --> 00:56:34.180 16 percent have been incarcerated, and among black transgender people, almost half, 47 601 00:56:34.180 --> 00:56:35.739 percent, have been incarcerated? 602 00:56:35.739 --> 00:56:40.140 CHASE STRANGIO: The numbers from the National Transgender Discrimination Survey are indeed 603 00:56:40.140 --> 00:56:45.029 staggering. So, these are the drivers of incarceration, disproportionately impact trans women of color, 604 00:56:45.029 --> 00:56:48.910 in particular, and then, once incarcerated, the incidents of violence are particularly 605 00:56:48.910 --> 00:56:54.450 acute for trans people. In one California study of trans women in a men’s prison there, 606 00:56:54.450 --> 00:56:58.930 they found that 59 percent of transgender women in California prisons had been sexually 607 00:56:58.930 --> 00:57:05.529 abused. And so now we have a 16-year-old transgender girl, with no criminal charges, held in solitary 608 00:57:05.529 --> 00:57:11.920 confinement for 30 days, potentially longer, up to a year, you know, vulnerable to all 609 00:57:11.920 --> 00:57:13.890 these harms and getting absolutely no care. 610 00:57:13.890 --> 00:57:18.519 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Aaron Romano, what are your next steps in terms of defending your 611 00:57:18.519 --> 00:57:21.630 client in the situation that she’s in right now? 612 00:57:21.630 --> 00:57:27.079 AARON ROMANO: Well, we filed a lawsuit in federal court to seek an injunction to prevent 613 00:57:27.079 --> 00:57:34.079 Doe’s further incarceration in the adult facility. As you pointed out earlier, DCF, 614 00:57:34.589 --> 00:57:40.180 the offenders against Doe, have not been brought to justice. And, in fact, DCF, rather than 615 00:57:40.180 --> 00:57:47.180 seeking the arrest and investigation and conviction of those people and having them brought to 616 00:57:48.289 --> 00:57:55.289 prison, they’re seeking the victim of sexual abuse being brought to an adult facility. 617 00:57:55.710 --> 00:57:58.470 It just shocks the conscience that they would go ahead and do something like this. 618 00:57:58.470 --> 00:58:01.150 AMY GOODMAN: And finally, Chase, what does the ACLU recommend? 619 00:58:01.150 --> 00:58:04.890 CHASE STRANGIO: I think that there’s a number of things that can be done. We need greater 620 00:58:04.890 --> 00:58:08.910 oversight, generally, over our prisons and our jails and our immigration detention facilities, 621 00:58:08.910 --> 00:58:13.670 where people are being sexually abused routinely. We need mechanisms for keeping people safe 622 00:58:13.670 --> 00:58:17.470 that don’t include locking them in concrete boxes for 22 and 23 hours a day. 623 00:58:17.470 --> 00:58:21.069 AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to leave it there, but we’ll continue to follow this case. 624 00:58:21.069 --> 00:58:24.920 Chase Strangio, staff attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union’s Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual 625 00:58:24.920 --> 00:58:29.479 and Transgender Project. And thank you very much to Aaron Romano, Jane Doe’s lawyer 626 00:58:29.479 --> 00:58:32.789 in federal court, speaking to us from Hartford, Connecticut. 627 00:58:32.789 --> 00:58:39.789 That does it for our show. I’ll be speaking in Stowe, Vermont, on May 17th. Check our 628 00:58:54.119 --> 00:58:55.209 website at democracynow.org.