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From Pacifica, this is Democracy Now!

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We have serious concerns
about the rising number

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of Palestinian civilian deaths
and the loss of Israeli lives.

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And that is why it now has to be

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our focus and the focus
of the international community

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to bring about a ceasefire
that ends the fighting

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and that can stop the deaths
of innocent civilians,

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both in Gaza and in Israel.

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As international pressure mounts
for a ceasefire in Gaza,

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the Palestinian death toll tops
600, overwhelmingly civilian.

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We’ll go to Sharif Abdel Kouddous
in Gaza City, then to Tel Aviv

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to speak
with Israeli journalist Gideon Levy.

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And as over 100,000 people in Gaza
take refuge in U.N. shelters,

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we go to Jerusalem
to speak with a representative

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of the U.N. Relief and Works Agency
for Palestine Refugees.

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All that and more, coming up.

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Welcome to Democracy Now!,
democracynow.org,

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The War and Peace Report.

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I’m Amy Goodman.

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The Palestinian death toll in Gaza

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has topped 600 as the Israeli siege
has entered its third week.

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Most of those killed are civilians;

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more than 100 are children.

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Israel says it has lost 27 soldiers
since the ground invasion

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began last week.

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Earlier today, Israel
confirmed the remains of one

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of its soldiers presumed to have been
killed in Gaza had still not been found.

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Hamas has said it captured the soldier.

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Meanwhile, U.N. Secretary-General Ban
Ki-moon is due to arrive in Israel

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to push for a ceasefire.

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Earlier today, Ban met in Cairo
with U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry,

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Egyptian officials and leaders
from the Arab League.

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We will go to Gaza
for more on the crisis after headlines.

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In eastern Ukraine, pro-Russian rebels
have handed over flight-data recorders

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removed from the crash site
of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

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All 298 people on board died when
the plane was shot down last Thursday

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in a rebel-held area.

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A train carrying the remains
of many of the victims

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has arrived in the eastern city

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of Kharkov, which is
under Ukrainian government control.

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European foreign ministers
are meeting in Brussels today

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to discuss a possible new round
of sanctions against Russia

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for its support of the rebels,

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who are suspected
of shooting down the plane.

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President Obama has signed an executive
order banning workplace discrimination

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against LGBT people employed
by the federal government or firms

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with federal contracts.

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President Obama: "It
doesn’t make much sense,

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but today in America millions
of our fellow citizens wake up

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and go to work with the awareness
that they could lose their job,

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not because of anything
they do or fail to do,

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but because of who they are:

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lesbian, gay, bisexual,

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transgender. And that’s wrong."

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The order will reportedly impact
about 28 million workers.

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Texas Gov. Rick Perry is sending up
to 1,000 National Guard troops

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to the Mexican border

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amidst a rise in children fleeing
violence and poverty in Central America.

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Perry’s move came as the White House
announced the number

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of unaccompanied children
detained at the border

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appears to have dropped this month.

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Last Friday, another round of 59 women
and children were deported to Honduras,

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while others were sent back
to Guatemala and El Salvador.

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This Friday, Obama will meet
with the leaders of Guatemala,

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El Salvador and Honduras
at the White House

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to discuss the crisis.

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In Honduras, a TV journalist

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has been found shot dead and half-naked
along the side of a highway

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a day after he went missing.

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Herlyn Espinal was a reporter
for Channel 3 television

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in San Pedro Sula,

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the city with the highest murder rate
in the world.

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The University of Connecticut
has agreed to pay nearly $1.3 million

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to settle claims
it mishandled complaints

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of sexual assault and harassment.

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The five plaintiffs
include a hockey player,

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who says she was kicked off the team
after she reported being raped,

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and a student
who says when she reported her rape,

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a campus police officer

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told her "women need to stop spreading
their legs like peanut butter or rape

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is going to keep on happening
’til the cows come home."

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UConn is one of nearly 70 schools

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under federal investigation
over handling of sexual assault.

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In Michigan, the city of Detroit
is suspending its mass shutoff of water

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to thousands of residents
for 15 days after mass protests.

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Since March, Detroit has cut the taps
of more than 15,000 households,

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with more than 90,000 others at risk
after falling behind on their bills.

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The pause came as residents
filed a lawsuit

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saying the shutoffs
violate constitutional rights.

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In Utah, about 21 people were arrested
after activists locked themselves

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to equipment and blockaded construction
at the first-ever tar sands oil mine

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in the United States.

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Utah Tar Sands Resistance
said about 80 people joined the action

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against the mine in the Book Cliffs,

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which they say threatens to devastate
land, water supplies and the climate.

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A new report by Human Rights Watch
finds federal agents

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or their informants
have played a direct role

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in almost every major
domestic terrorism case since 9/11.

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Deputy Washington Director Andrea Prasow

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described the targeting
of Muslim Americans in sting operations.

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Andrea Prasow: "If law enforcement
has a reason

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to suspect that someone
has a propensity towards violence,

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has expressed an interest in engaging
in violence or other criminal activity,

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of course they should investigate,

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and they should use
all the lawful resources

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they have at their disposal.

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But in some cases,
they were doing more than that.

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They were expecting
that people would be terrorists

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and doing everything they
could to help them become terrorists."

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And those are some of the headlines
this is Democracy Now,

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Democracynow.org,
the War and Peace Report.

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I’m Amy Goodman.

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AARON MATÉ: The Israeli assault
on Gaza has entered its third week

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as the Palestinian death toll
has topped 600, mostly civilians.

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More than 100 of the dead are children.

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More than 3,700 Palestinians
have been injured.

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Israel says it’s lost 27 soldiers since
the ground invasion began on Thursday.

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Earlier today,
Israel confirmed the remains

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of one of its soldiers
presumed to have been killed in Gaza

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had still not been found or identified.

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This comes two days after Hamas said
it had captured the soldier.

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AMY GOODMAN: So far today,

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Israel has struck
more than 70 sites inside Gaza,

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including five mosques
and a football stadium.

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On Monday,
at least 103 Palestinians died,

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including 11 when Israel bombed
a residential tower block in Gaza City.

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Five children died in that attack.

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In the central Gaza town
of Deir al-Balah, five people

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died, 70 were wounded, when Israel
shelled the al-Aqsa Hospital Monday.

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It became the third medical facility

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to be struck by Israel
in the past two weeks.

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The injured included about 30 medics.

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Meanwhile, gunshots were fired
into Al Jazeera’s bureau in Gaza Strip

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today, one day after Israeli Foreign
Minister Avigdor Lieberman

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said his country will work
to close down Al Jazeera in Israel.

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As we continue our coverage
of the Israeli assault on Gaza,

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we’re joined from Gaza City by
Democracy Now!'s Sharif Abdel Kouddous,

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who has been writing pieces
for The Nation magazine,

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and we'll link to those pieces .

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Can you tell us, Sharif,

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what has been happening
in these last 24 hours?

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SHARIF ABDEL KOUDDOUS: Well, Amy,
as you said, it’s been—

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the heavy bombing,
the heavy bombardment of Gaza continues.

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Amongst the targets hit
were five mosques,

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a sports stadium
and many homes and businesses.

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Palestinians continue to die
inside their homes in Gaza.

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I saw supermarkets that were still

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smoldering from what appeared
to be a drone strike today.

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The owner was sifting
through diapers and food

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and all his inventory
that had been completely ruined,

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and his livelihood has been lost.

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And as you mentioned,
I’m standing to you—

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I’m talking to you from the AP studio,

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which is just across on the same floor
as the Al Jazeera studio.

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These were two apparently 50-caliber
or heavy-caliber shots

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that came into the window
at 9:00 in the morning,

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or 9:30 in the morning,
pierced the window and hit the wall.

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These are not, you know,
regular bullets.

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These are kind of very loud bullets
that make this huge booming sound.

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One of the Al Jazeera people
that I spoke to said that they

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thought it was what the Israelis
call a knock on the roof,

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a warning shot with a rocket,

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that it was going to be destroyed.

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So we had people here,

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both in AP and Al Jazeera, in a lot
of panic and evacuating the premises.

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AP then confirmed with the Israeli
military that they weren’t targeted,

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but Al Jazeera
has not had that confirmation.

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And the Al Jazeera staff

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are just downstairs at the bottom
of the building, sitting there.

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And the AP staff
are back here on a voluntary basis.

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So this is, you know,
another instance of targeting the media.

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And meanwhile, as I said,
people continue to die.

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In Rafah yesterday,

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there was a family, the al-Siam family;

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nine people
of the same family were killed.

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I spoke yesterday about
probably the single deadliest strike

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since the conflict began,

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on the Abu Jamaa family,

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which killed 25 people,
17 of whom were children.

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So, Gaza’s a place
of indescribable loss and a place

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where family sizes continue
to be shrunk by falling bombs.

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AARON MATÉ: Sharif, on Monday’s show,
you also talked about the massacre

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in Shejaiya, the neighborhood

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where 72 Palestinians
were killed, mostly civilians,

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by the reports that we’ve seen.

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The Palestinian Ministry of Health

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in Gaza has warned
of an environmental disaster

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if Israel keeps blocking ambulances
from retrieving the bodies.

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What do we know about the latest right
now in Shejaiya?

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SHARIF ABDEL KOUDDOUS: There were
attempts for a ceasefire negotiation,

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a humanitarian ceasefire,

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that had been going on since last night.

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These talks
appear to have fallen through.

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Ha’aretz reported the Israeli government
is saying a ceasefire,

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a humanitarian ceasefire,

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was not on the Israeli
government’s agenda at the moment.

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So, as I was speaking to you yesterday,

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we saw that very heavy bombardment

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of Shejaiya that came a day
after that massive artillery shelling

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and the bloodiest day
so far of the conflict.

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And ambulances still cannot get in.

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And we had all these reports,

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and we have footage,
of the bodies in the streets—

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and perhaps wounded,
if they’re still alive—

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not being able to get out.

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And on top of that,

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Gaza is facing a very serious
humanitarian crisis.

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The number of internally displaced
has risen to over 100,000.

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The U.N. is struggling to cope
with the number of people.

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And that U.N. number is clearly low.

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I mean, one family today—

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I saw six families
arrive from Beit Hanoun,

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a district in the north of Gaza,

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which was very hard-hit yesterday,

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arrive and live in that house,

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and those people
are not counted by the United Nations.

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Water is coming to Palestinian families
only three hours a day—

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well, it’s only three hours
every three days,

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and people are forced
to stock up on water.

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They only get power
for between four to eight hours a day.

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And so, this is a serious crisis
that we’re facing, a humanitarian one,

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as well as the number
of dead and wounded.

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AMY GOODMAN: Yesterday
on Democracy Now!,

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Dr. Mads Gilbert, the Norwegian doctor,

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broke the news on Democracy Now!

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that the al-Aqsa Hospital
had been attacked.

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Can you talk about the results
of that attack?

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What happened to the patients inside?

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What happened to the doctors
and the nurses, Sharif?

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SHARIF ABDEL KOUDDOUS: Well, I didn’t go
there myself to report it firsthand yet,

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but there was an attack that hit a floor

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that housed an operating room
as well as an intensive care unit.

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Four people were killed,
and a few more were injured.

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But, you know, this is a place
where the wounded are,

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and the wounded
are not even safe anymore in Gaza.

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As you mentioned, they
attacked two other medical facilities:

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al-Wafa Hospital,

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which housed severely disabled
and paralyzed patients,

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as well as a clinic for the handicapped,

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where two handicapped patients
were killed.

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So, you know, these are places
where not only the wounded go,

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but where Palestinians
go to seek refuge.

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The Shifa Hospital here in Gaza
is a place of refuge to many.

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You know, they go there
because they feel it is a safe place.

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And increasingly, those kinds of places
are no longer safe.

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And in Gaza, there’s nowhere to run.

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AMY GOODMAN: Sharif, Ayman Mohyeldin,
who is the NBC reporter,

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we reported last week, of course,
that he was pulled out of Gaza

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after he witnessed the killing
of the four boys

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between nine and 11 years old
who were playing soccer on the beach

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in front of the hotel where so many

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of the international reporters
were staying.

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But then NBC announced on Friday night
they would return Ayman to Gaza.

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Can you talk about the significance
of this?

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And now we have seen
him back on the air.

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SHARIF ABDEL KOUDDOUS: Well, it’s great
to have Ayman back in Gaza.

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He’s one of the best international
correspondents, especially from here.

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I think, you know,
a lot of social media pressure

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and outrage
over his transfer out of Gaza

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last week caused him to come back,

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and so I think that’s a good thing.

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It’s great that he’s here.

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He reported yesterday that, you know,

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the four al-Bakr boys
that he saw killed,

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that their house was bombed,

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although that was initial reports,
so we haven’t confirmed that yet.

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You know, these kinds of tragedies
continue.

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I told you about the Abu Jarad family,

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eight of whom were killed
while they were watching TV

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when a tank shell
came crashing through their wall.

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One of the cousins called me yesterday,

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and they had vowed not to move,
and they were forced to.

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They are now displaced.

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00:14:11.690 --> 00:14:13.960
Beit Hanoun, the area
where their house is,

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00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:15.780
came under very heavy tank shelling,

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and they joined the more than 100,000
who have been displaced.

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So, you know, this is—

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then this crisis
doesn’t seem to be going anywhere.

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These calls for a ceasefire,

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these calls for an end to the bloodshed
only seem to be fueling the violence.

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The violence is getting steadily worse.

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Three hundred of the dead have been
killed since the ground invasion

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began a few days ago.

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So the level of violence is really
ramping up instead of de-escalating.

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00:14:45.530 --> 00:14:46.560
AARON MATÉ: Sharif, as we wrap,

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00:14:46.560 --> 00:14:50.640
is there support amongst Palestinians
that you speak to for Hamas’s strategy,

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which is basically
to continue the violence

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until Israel agrees to lift the blockade
of the Gaza Strip?

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SHARIF ABDEL KOUDDOUS: From
the vast majority

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00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:03.290
of Palestinians
that I’ve spoken to, they support—

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they wouldn’t say they support Hamas,

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but they support the resistance.

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00:15:06.590 --> 00:15:11.990
They support some kind of fighting back
against this brutal military assault.

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They support, they say, the resistance
until their conditions are met.

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And the primary,

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00:15:19.010 --> 00:15:22.850
the number one condition everyone
mentions is the lifting of the siege.

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The siege affects every aspect
of life here in Gaza,

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from the water to power, to jobs,
to food, to freedom of movement,

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to very basic human rights.

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And they feel that if the ceasefire—

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if this conflict ends without a return—

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00:15:41.340 --> 00:15:44.090
or it returns back to the same situation

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that it was, with Gaza under siege,

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that their lives—

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you know, they need some change
in their lives.

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And so, yeah, I mean, I think—

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I wouldn’t say Hamas,
as a political movement,

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has the support,

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00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:59.020
but as a resistance movement,
that it is right now,

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yes, most Palestinians
are unified behind it,

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even those who are very critical of it.

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00:16:04.730 --> 00:16:07.550
Even political opponents
who are members of the Fatah party

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00:16:07.550 --> 00:16:10.950
say they support the resistance
in this time of conflict.

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00:16:10.950 --> 00:16:12.430
AMY GOODMAN: Finally, Sharif,

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00:16:12.430 --> 00:16:15.500
I know we may lose you by satellite
at any moment in Gaza City,

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00:16:15.500 --> 00:16:18.120
but when you talk about the siege,

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00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:20.830
it’s not something that’s covered
very much in the United States.

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00:16:20.830 --> 00:16:22.910
Can you just elaborate more fully

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00:16:22.910 --> 00:16:27.000
what you mean when Palestinians
say "lift the siege"?

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00:16:30.520 --> 00:16:32.420
SHARIF ABDEL KOUDDOUS: Well, Gaza
is a thin strip of land

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00:16:32.420 --> 00:16:36.280
that is bordered mostly by Israel
and also by Egypt,

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00:16:36.280 --> 00:16:38.890
and it has a big seacoast,

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00:16:38.890 --> 00:16:43.450
and Palestinians
can’t get in or out of Gaza.

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00:16:43.450 --> 00:16:45.460
They’re prevented by Israel.
They’re prevented by Egypt,

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00:16:45.460 --> 00:16:49.790
which largely executes U.S.
and Israeli policy.

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00:16:50.690 --> 00:16:54.040
And foods, basic goods,

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00:16:54.040 --> 00:16:57.530
the right to import and export,
all of these things are banned to them,

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00:16:58.030 --> 00:17:01.320
and so this has devastated the economy
here.

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00:17:01.320 --> 00:17:03.040
It has devastated lives.

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00:17:03.040 --> 00:17:04.370
People feel trapped.

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00:17:04.370 --> 00:17:07.410
They often speak of how they live
in the biggest open-air prison

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00:17:07.410 --> 00:17:08.450
in the world.

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00:17:08.450 --> 00:17:10.420
And even the sea,

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00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:14.520
fishermen cannot go out
more than a couple of kilometers

335
00:17:14.520 --> 00:17:17.810
to go fish,
where Israeli warships await them.

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00:17:17.810 --> 00:17:19.170
So, you really feel it.

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00:17:19.170 --> 00:17:23.760
And you really feel this war
exacerbating all those effects.

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00:17:23.760 --> 00:17:26.270
And you feel—you hear drones in the air.

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00:17:26.270 --> 00:17:28.230
You hear the booms of the ships.

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00:17:28.230 --> 00:17:30.820
And even if you wanted to leave,
you couldn’t.

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00:17:30.820 --> 00:17:32.910
Even if journalists
wanted to leave today, they couldn’t.

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00:17:32.910 --> 00:17:35.460
Erez crossing was closed,
the border with Israel,

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00:17:35.460 --> 00:17:37.900
and the Egyptian border
is closed, as well.

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00:17:37.900 --> 00:17:39.470
So it really feels—

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00:17:40.130 --> 00:17:41.380
and there’s no shelters here.

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00:17:41.380 --> 00:17:42.870
There’s no air raids—

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00:17:42.870 --> 00:17:44.760
sorry, there’s no air defense system.

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00:17:44.760 --> 00:17:46.060
There’s no sirens.

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00:17:46.060 --> 00:17:47.690
There’s really nowhere to run.

350
00:17:47.690 --> 00:17:50.400
You don’t know where is safe.

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00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:52.410
And people are dying inside their homes

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00:17:52.410 --> 00:17:54.490
and inside hospitals—

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00:17:55.140 --> 00:17:56.230
not from their wounds,

354
00:17:56.230 --> 00:18:00.060
but from being bombed and wounded again
by the Israeli military.

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00:18:00.670 --> 00:18:02.290
AMY GOODMAN: Sharif,
I want to thank you for being with us.

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00:18:02.290 --> 00:18:03.370
Please stay safe.

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00:18:03.370 --> 00:18:05.060
Sharif Abdel Kouddous, Democracy Now!

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00:18:05.060 --> 00:18:07.340
correspondent in Gaza City.

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00:18:07.340 --> 00:18:10.430
You can see his reports
at TheNation.com,

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00:18:10.430 --> 00:18:12.610
and we will link there
at democracynow.org.

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00:18:12.610 --> 00:18:14.840
When we come back,
we’re going to Tel Aviv

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00:18:14.840 --> 00:18:18.170
to speak
with the Ha’aretz columnist Gideon Levy,

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00:18:18.170 --> 00:18:20.870
a member
of the newspaper’s editorial board,

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00:18:20.870 --> 00:18:22.950
author of The Punishment of Gaza.

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00:18:22.950 --> 00:18:24.200
Stay with us.

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00:18:31.310 --> 00:18:49.840
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!,
democracynow.org,

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00:18:49.840 --> 00:18:55.810
The War and Peace Report.

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00:18:55.810 --> 00:19:12.160
I’m Amy Goodman, with Aaron Maté.

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00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:35.720
AARON MATÉ: As the Israeli assault
on Gaza enters its third week,

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00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:39.330
a new push is underway for
an internationally brokered ceasefire.

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00:19:39.330 --> 00:19:43.110
U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon
is set to arrive in Israel shortly.

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00:19:43.110 --> 00:19:45.840
Earlier today he met with Secretary
of State John Kerry and leaders

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00:19:45.840 --> 00:19:47.700
of the Arab League in Cairo.

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00:19:47.700 --> 00:19:49.390
Speaking Monday from Washington,

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00:19:49.390 --> 00:19:52.490
President Obama continued his backing
for Israel’s assault,

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00:19:52.490 --> 00:19:55.560
but said the U.S. will intensify
its role in the ceasefire effort.

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00:19:56.560 --> 00:19:59.760
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: As I’ve said
many times, Israel has a right

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00:19:59.760 --> 00:20:03.430
to defend itself against rocket
and tunnel attacks from Hamas.

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00:20:04.380 --> 00:20:06.760
And as a result of its operations,

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00:20:06.760 --> 00:20:09.250
Israel has already done
significant damage

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00:20:09.250 --> 00:20:12.470
to Hamas’s terrorist infrastructure
in Gaza.

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00:20:13.520 --> 00:20:16.710
I’ve also said, however,
that we have serious concerns

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00:20:16.710 --> 00:20:20.460
about the rising number
of Palestinian civilian deaths

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00:20:20.460 --> 00:20:22.370
and the loss of Israeli lives.

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00:20:23.780 --> 00:20:26.470
And that is why it now has to be

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00:20:26.470 --> 00:20:29.240
our focus and the focus
of the international community

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00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:32.630
to bring about a ceasefire
that ends the fighting

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00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:37.150
and that can stop the deaths
of innocent civilians,

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00:20:37.150 --> 00:20:39.350
both in Gaza and in Israel.

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00:20:39.350 --> 00:20:43.080
AMY GOODMAN: Speaking earlier today,
Israeli Justice Minister Tzipi Livni

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00:20:43.080 --> 00:20:46.620
said there is, quote, "no real hope"
of an immediate ceasefire

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00:20:46.620 --> 00:20:50.020
because Hamas’s conditions
are too far from those of Israel,

393
00:20:50.020 --> 00:20:51.530
the U.S. and Egypt.

394
00:20:51.530 --> 00:20:53.880
Hamas’s demands have centered on an end

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00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:56.800
to the Israeli blockade of Gaza
and the release of its prisoners.

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00:20:56.800 --> 00:21:02.650
This is Hamas Deputy
Leader Ismail Haniyeh.

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00:21:02.650 --> 00:21:04.790
ISMAIL HANIYEH: [translated]
The demands of our people are clear.

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00:21:04.790 --> 00:21:06.270
The aggression must be stopped,

399
00:21:06.270 --> 00:21:09.320
and a guarantee should be given
it would not be repeated.

400
00:21:09.320 --> 00:21:12.310
The blockade must be lifted,
this unjust blockade

401
00:21:12.310 --> 00:21:15.270
that our Palestinian people
are living in.

402
00:21:15.270 --> 00:21:17.610
AARON MATÉ: The seven-year siege
has crippled Gaza’s economy,

403
00:21:17.610 --> 00:21:19.810
civilian infrastructure
and water supplies.

404
00:21:19.810 --> 00:21:21.730
Unemployment tops 40 percent,

405
00:21:21.730 --> 00:21:24.670
and almost 80 percent
rely on humanitarian aid.

406
00:21:24.670 --> 00:21:28.120
The U.N. has warned
Gaza could no longer be livable by 2020

407
00:21:28.120 --> 00:21:29.990
unless urgent steps are taken.

408
00:21:29.990 --> 00:21:33.830
The last ceasefire in November 2012
was supposed to ease the blockade,

409
00:21:33.830 --> 00:21:35.870
but Israel only intensified it.

410
00:21:35.870 --> 00:21:38.740
With Hamas now vowing to continue
fighting against what it calls

411
00:21:38.740 --> 00:21:43.760
a "slow death," a new ceasefire
largely hinges on whether the U.S.

412
00:21:43.760 --> 00:21:46.460
and others will pressure Israel
to reverse its stance.

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00:21:46.460 --> 00:21:50.490
AMY GOODMAN: We’re now joined by Israeli
journalist Gideon Levy in Tel Aviv.

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00:21:50.490 --> 00:21:52.560
In a piece for the Israeli newspaper

415
00:21:52.560 --> 00:21:56.810
Ha’aretz headlined
"What Does Hamas Really Want?"

416
00:21:56.810 --> 00:22:00.380
Levy writes, quote,
"These conditions are civilian;

417
00:22:00.380 --> 00:22:04.560
the means of achieving them
are military, violent and criminal.

418
00:22:04.560 --> 00:22:08.790
But the (bitter) truth is that when Gaza
is not firing rockets at Israel,

419
00:22:08.790 --> 00:22:10.470
nobody cares about it.

420
00:22:10.470 --> 00:22:13.580
... Read the list
of [Hamas] demands and judge honestly

421
00:22:13.580 --> 00:22:16.250
whether there is one unjust demand
among them."

422
00:22:16.250 --> 00:22:18.510
Gideon Levy, welcome to Democracy Now!

423
00:22:19.110 --> 00:22:23.000
Why don’t you lay out
the premise of this piece,

424
00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:26.870
what you’re trying to convey
in your article in Ha’aretz?

425
00:22:30.710 --> 00:22:34.250
GIDEON LEVY: Look,
we tend to beat our enemies

426
00:22:34.250 --> 00:22:36.450
and never to listen to them.

427
00:22:36.450 --> 00:22:39.650
And many times,
listening even to the enemy,

428
00:22:39.650 --> 00:22:41.900
even to the most bitter enemy,

429
00:22:41.900 --> 00:22:46.350
can serve a much better cause
than beating and beating and beating.

430
00:22:46.350 --> 00:22:47.710
And unfortunately, Israel

431
00:22:47.710 --> 00:22:55.460
is just using the violence right now
without listening to their conditions.

432
00:22:55.460 --> 00:23:00.230
I don’t know
if their conditions are acceptable.

433
00:23:00.230 --> 00:23:03.270
I don’t know
if those are really their conditions.

434
00:23:03.270 --> 00:23:05.330
But they say it very clearly:

435
00:23:05.330 --> 00:23:10.280
They ask for freedom for Gaza,
they ask to lift the siege.

436
00:23:11.020 --> 00:23:15.620
Can you recall
a more just require than this?

437
00:23:15.620 --> 00:23:17.490
But I’ll say something more than this.

438
00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:24.180
Doesn’t it serve the interests
of Israel, seeing Gaza free

439
00:23:24.180 --> 00:23:30.710
and seeing Gaza building its economy
and not living those unhuman conditions

440
00:23:30.710 --> 00:23:33.120
in the biggest cage in the world,

441
00:23:33.120 --> 00:23:36.580
which creates only more hatred
and more violence?

442
00:23:36.580 --> 00:23:40.840
So, it is really at our door
now to decide.

443
00:23:40.840 --> 00:23:43.760
Do we want to go from one cycle
to the other,

444
00:23:43.760 --> 00:23:48.180
from one circle of bloodshed
to the other, not solving anything?

445
00:23:48.180 --> 00:23:49.630
Or are we willing,

446
00:23:49.630 --> 00:23:52.130
once and for all, to put a real,

447
00:23:52.130 --> 00:23:54.050
just solution to the problem of Gaza?

448
00:23:54.810 --> 00:23:57.140
AARON MATÉ: Well,
with the massive civilian toll in Gaza,

449
00:23:57.140 --> 00:24:00.070
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin
Netanyahu was asked Monday

450
00:24:00.070 --> 00:24:02.800
if he’s worried
about losing international opinion.

451
00:24:02.800 --> 00:24:05.990
Netanyahu was speaking
to Brian Williams of NBC News.

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00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:08.400
PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: You
know, at a certain point, you say,

453
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:10.410
"What choice have you got?
What would you do?

454
00:24:10.410 --> 00:24:13.730
What would you do if American cities,
where you’re sitting now, Brian,

455
00:24:13.730 --> 00:24:16.410
would be rocketed,
would absorb hundreds of rockets?"

456
00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:19.020
You know—you know what would you say?

457
00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:20.680
You’d say to your leader,

458
00:24:20.680 --> 00:24:22.490
"A man’s got to do
what a man’s got to do."

459
00:24:22.490 --> 00:24:25.280
And you’d say, "A country’s got to do
what a country’s got to do."

460
00:24:25.280 --> 00:24:26.730
We have to defend ourselves.

461
00:24:26.730 --> 00:24:30.920
We try to do it
with the minimum amount of force

462
00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:36.700
or with targeting military targets
as best as we can,

463
00:24:36.700 --> 00:24:38.190
but we’ll act to defend ourselves.

464
00:24:38.190 --> 00:24:39.710
No country can live like this.

465
00:24:40.460 --> 00:24:42.920
AARON MATÉ: That’s Israeli Prime
Minister Benjamin Netanyahu speaking

466
00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:44.030
on Monday.

467
00:24:44.030 --> 00:24:46.680
Gideon Levy, so he’s saying here
that this current attack

468
00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:47.770
is about self-defense.

469
00:24:47.770 --> 00:24:50.150
And the blockade
has been justified in terms of,

470
00:24:50.150 --> 00:24:53.750
"Well, we have to stop Hamas
from smuggling rockets;

471
00:24:53.750 --> 00:24:56.770
they are, after all, a group
that’s committed to our destruction."

472
00:24:56.770 --> 00:24:58.020
Your response to that?

473
00:25:01.790 --> 00:25:04.540
GIDEON LEVY: So did you
stop the smuggling with the siege?

474
00:25:04.540 --> 00:25:05.620
Did you really stop?

475
00:25:05.620 --> 00:25:08.950
We see now how well equipped Hamas is.

476
00:25:08.950 --> 00:25:10.400
This is ridiculous,

477
00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:15.190
because any siege
can be broken for certain purposes.

478
00:25:15.190 --> 00:25:17.900
But the siege breaks the people of Gaza

479
00:25:17.900 --> 00:25:21.450
and pushes them again and again
to the corner,

480
00:25:21.450 --> 00:25:26.300
to the corner of violence
and to the corner of desperation.

481
00:25:26.300 --> 00:25:30.000
But I would like also to comment
about the prime minister’s remarks,

482
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:32.840
as if Israel has to react.

483
00:25:32.840 --> 00:25:36.320
Sure, Israel has to react
and has to defend itself,

484
00:25:36.940 --> 00:25:40.210
but, Mr. Prime Minister,
where did it start?

485
00:25:40.210 --> 00:25:45.550
Those rockets fall on our heads
just by chance?

486
00:25:45.550 --> 00:25:47.990
There is no context to this?

487
00:25:47.990 --> 00:25:52.020
There was not the breaking
of the political negotiations

488
00:25:52.020 --> 00:25:58.350
by the Israelis refusing
to release some few veteran prisoners?

489
00:25:58.350 --> 00:26:01.610
There was not a war declared on Hamas
in the West Bank

490
00:26:01.610 --> 00:26:05.730
after the kidnap and the murder
of three Israeli youngsters,

491
00:26:06.420 --> 00:26:11.980
arresting 500 Hamas activists
who were not involved in this kidnap?

492
00:26:12.660 --> 00:26:16.160
Didn’t Israel stop the salaries—

493
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:17.890
transferring the salaries

494
00:26:17.890 --> 00:26:20.630
to 40,000 Hamas workers,

495
00:26:20.630 --> 00:26:22.570
employees in Gaza?

496
00:26:22.570 --> 00:26:24.070
And what did Israel think?

497
00:26:24.070 --> 00:26:27.260
Wasn’t Israel
against the unity government?

498
00:26:27.260 --> 00:26:28.610
And what did Israel think,

499
00:26:28.610 --> 00:26:34.060
that all this will pass like nothing
and Hamas will accept everything?

500
00:26:34.060 --> 00:26:35.310
So I have news.

501
00:26:35.950 --> 00:26:38.660
Those who believe
that nothing will happen

502
00:26:38.660 --> 00:26:43.180
were either extremely arrogant
or blind or both.

503
00:26:44.730 --> 00:26:49.660
AMY GOODMAN: Can you explain,
Gideon Levy, the feeling of Israelis—

504
00:26:49.660 --> 00:26:50.920
you’re in Tel Aviv;

505
00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:52.610
we’re about to be joined by a guest

506
00:26:52.610 --> 00:26:53.960
in Jerusalem—

507
00:26:53.960 --> 00:26:58.600
of the rocket fire
that’s coming from Gaza,

508
00:26:58.600 --> 00:27:02.050
the something like 2,000 rockets?

509
00:27:07.460 --> 00:27:09.170
GIDEON LEVY: Look,
I don’t want to underestimate.

510
00:27:09.170 --> 00:27:12.260
It is certain fear, for sure,

511
00:27:12.260 --> 00:27:15.500
more in the south,
close to the Gaza Strip.

512
00:27:15.500 --> 00:27:18.390
This morning there were two sirens
in Tel Aviv,

513
00:27:19.030 --> 00:27:24.120
and five minutes later life
went back to its routine.

514
00:27:24.980 --> 00:27:28.320
I don’t say that people
don’t carry some kind of fear, but,

515
00:27:28.320 --> 00:27:31.920
by and large, the life,
at least in the center—

516
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:33.430
I’ve been yesterday to the south;

517
00:27:33.430 --> 00:27:35.210
the picture is different there—

518
00:27:35.210 --> 00:27:39.590
by and large, life
is more or less continuing,

519
00:27:39.590 --> 00:27:43.880
with some changes.

520
00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:45.160
People go out less,

521
00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:48.140
but it’s not the big fear
of the horrible days

522
00:27:48.140 --> 00:27:51.120
of the Second Intifada
with the exploding buses

523
00:27:51.120 --> 00:27:52.680
and suicide bombers.

524
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:57.870
I don’t even hint to say
that this can become a routine—

525
00:27:57.870 --> 00:27:59.560
no way, it can’t.

526
00:28:00.110 --> 00:28:02.390
But compared to the suffer of Gaza,

527
00:28:02.390 --> 00:28:04.600
this is really a children’s game
right now.

528
00:28:04.600 --> 00:28:05.950
And thanks God also,

529
00:28:05.950 --> 00:28:08.950
there are almost no civilian casualties
in Israel.

530
00:28:09.550 --> 00:28:13.110
Having said this, I don’t call
for more casualties in Israel;

531
00:28:13.110 --> 00:28:17.910
I just say let’s try
and solve it once and for all and not

532
00:28:17.910 --> 00:28:20.840
go again to the old games,

533
00:28:20.840 --> 00:28:24.220
which have proven already
that they lead to nowhere.

534
00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:27.140
AARON MATÉ: I want to bring in
Nathan Thrall, senior analyst

535
00:28:27.140 --> 00:28:28.510
at the International Crisis Group,

536
00:28:28.510 --> 00:28:31.210
covering Gaza, Israel,
Jordan and the West Bank.

537
00:28:31.210 --> 00:28:32.710
His recent article
for The New York Times

538
00:28:32.710 --> 00:28:36.080
is headlined
"How the West Chose War in Gaza."

539
00:28:36.080 --> 00:28:40.120
Nathan Thrall, we just heard Gideon Levy
talking about the context here of Israel

540
00:28:40.120 --> 00:28:42.890
undermining the Palestinian unity
government.

541
00:28:42.890 --> 00:28:48.040
Your piece deals with how this was
carried about with EU and U.S. backing.

542
00:28:48.040 --> 00:28:50.250
Can you lay out for us
what happened here,

543
00:28:50.250 --> 00:28:53.560
why this context is so critical
to the current crisis in Gaza?

544
00:28:55.560 --> 00:28:58.180
NATHAN THRALL: Sure.
I would step back a little bit

545
00:28:58.180 --> 00:29:02.810
further to the last fight
between Hamas and Israel,

546
00:29:02.810 --> 00:29:05.260
which occurred in November 2012.

547
00:29:05.260 --> 00:29:07.730
That was brought to a close
after several days

548
00:29:07.730 --> 00:29:09.970
with a ceasefire brokered by Egypt.

549
00:29:09.970 --> 00:29:13.000
At that time,
Hamas had an ally, Egypt, in power.

550
00:29:13.600 --> 00:29:17.770
And basically, that ceasefire,
the terms of that ceasefire

551
00:29:17.770 --> 00:29:21.180
included various concessions
to Gaza and to Hamas.

552
00:29:21.180 --> 00:29:25.670
And although Israel implemented some
of them in the immediate days and weeks

553
00:29:25.670 --> 00:29:28.980
afterward,
very shortly later those were retracted,

554
00:29:28.980 --> 00:29:31.470
and we once again went back
to a situation

555
00:29:31.470 --> 00:29:34.600
where exports were all but nonexistent,

556
00:29:34.600 --> 00:29:36.390
imports were reduced,

557
00:29:36.390 --> 00:29:40.620
and there were severe restrictions
on travel for Gazans.

558
00:29:40.620 --> 00:29:43.810
Nevertheless, that ceasefire
basically held,

559
00:29:43.810 --> 00:29:49.800
and during 2012 and ’13—
I’m sorry, during 2013,

560
00:29:49.800 --> 00:29:51.140
following the ceasefire,

561
00:29:51.820 --> 00:29:55.340
Israel
had one of the quietest years,

562
00:29:55.340 --> 00:29:56.590
if not the quietest year,

563
00:29:56.590 --> 00:29:59.810
it had had since rockets
started coming from Gaza,

564
00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:05.660
which, by the way, began
before the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza

565
00:30:05.660 --> 00:30:07.570
in the fall of 2005.

566
00:30:08.950 --> 00:30:13.920
Fast-forward to July 2013,
when there is a coup in Egypt,

567
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:17.580
and there is a new leader
who’s very hostile

568
00:30:17.580 --> 00:30:19.180
both to the Muslim Brotherhood,

569
00:30:19.180 --> 00:30:21.980
of which Hamas
is the Palestinian chapter,

570
00:30:21.980 --> 00:30:27.090
and hostile to Hamas, as well,
of course.

571
00:30:27.090 --> 00:30:30.680
And there was a radical change
in policy on the part of Egypt

572
00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:31.990
and a radical change

573
00:30:33.130 --> 00:30:37.700
in the closure regime
that was imposed on Gaza.

574
00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:43.170
Very, very few Gazans were able to exit
through the Rafah crossing to Egypt.

575
00:30:43.170 --> 00:30:46.390
This is the main exit
of Gazans to the outside world.

576
00:30:47.070 --> 00:30:51.250
There are some Gazans
who are permitted to leave via Israel,

577
00:30:51.250 --> 00:30:54.420
but it’s really
not available to most Gazans.

578
00:30:54.420 --> 00:30:58.910
It’s for exceptional medical cases
and high-level VIP businessmen

579
00:30:58.910 --> 00:31:00.350
and so forth.

580
00:31:00.350 --> 00:31:03.170
So, the exit was closed,

581
00:31:03.170 --> 00:31:05.510
and pressure started to build.

582
00:31:05.510 --> 00:31:06.190
In addition,

583
00:31:06.190 --> 00:31:07.390
the tunnels,

584
00:31:07.390 --> 00:31:11.910
through which many goods were coming,
particularly construction materials

585
00:31:11.910 --> 00:31:15.760
and fuel—were coming into Gaza
through these tunnels crossing

586
00:31:15.760 --> 00:31:18.400
the Gaza-Egypt border.

587
00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:23.540
And the Sisi regime,
following the July 2013 coup,

588
00:31:23.540 --> 00:31:26.030
basically eliminated these tunnels.

589
00:31:26.030 --> 00:31:29.850
And with that elimination
of those tunnels,

590
00:31:29.850 --> 00:31:31.460
almost complete elimination,

591
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:36.400
Hamas no longer had these goods coming
through and could no longer tax them.

592
00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:38.660
They relied on those tax revenues

593
00:31:38.660 --> 00:31:42.410
in order to pay
the roughly 40,000 employees

594
00:31:42.410 --> 00:31:45.770
who run Gaza and have been
running Gaza even without pay

595
00:31:45.770 --> 00:31:47.490
for the last several months.

596
00:31:47.490 --> 00:31:50.800
So, what you had was a pressure cooker
inside of Gaza,

597
00:31:50.800 --> 00:31:54.140
and this began to build and build
to the point where,

598
00:31:54.140 --> 00:31:58.790
December 2013,
we had a massive storm here

599
00:31:58.790 --> 00:32:04.430
and sanitation plants
started to shut down for lack of power.

600
00:32:04.430 --> 00:32:08.200
There was radical reductions
in electricity,

601
00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:11.070
which are already at very,
very low levels within Gaza.

602
00:32:11.070 --> 00:32:12.830
Sewage is being dumped in the sea.

603
00:32:12.830 --> 00:32:16.180
There’s sewage in the middle
of the streets in Gaza.

604
00:32:16.180 --> 00:32:19.550
And Hamas is looking
at the situation in Egypt,

605
00:32:19.550 --> 00:32:23.100
and they’re hoping that there’s going
to be a change in regime there

606
00:32:23.100 --> 00:32:26.640
and they will at least if not have
a Muslim Brotherhood president again,

607
00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:28.520
somebody who’s less hostile to them

608
00:32:28.520 --> 00:32:33.120
and is going to allow some kind
of easing of the closure of Gaza.

609
00:32:33.120 --> 00:32:36.220
And as they came to the conclusion
earlier this year

610
00:32:36.220 --> 00:32:39.010
that that really was not going
to happen in the near term,

611
00:32:39.010 --> 00:32:41.160
they realized that they had
to do something

612
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:42.930
to get out of their predicament—

613
00:32:43.800 --> 00:32:45.560
and in particular,

614
00:32:45.560 --> 00:32:49.250
the predicament of not being able to pay
the employees who are running Gaza.

615
00:32:49.250 --> 00:32:52.610
These employees, by the way,
are not simply Hamas members.

616
00:32:52.610 --> 00:32:53.990
Many of them are Hamas members,

617
00:32:53.990 --> 00:32:56.450
but many of them are members
of other factions, as well.

618
00:32:57.360 --> 00:33:02.320
And as soon
as they came to this conclusion,

619
00:33:02.320 --> 00:33:05.180
they decided that what they would do
as a way out of this

620
00:33:05.180 --> 00:33:09.500
was to form a reconciliation agreement

621
00:33:09.500 --> 00:33:12.700
with the Palestinian leadership
in Ramallah.

622
00:33:12.700 --> 00:33:17.490
And this was a years-long process
of debating the various points

623
00:33:17.490 --> 00:33:19.880
of implementing
Palestinian reconciliation.

624
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:21.620
It’s a very distant dream.

625
00:33:21.620 --> 00:33:25.640
But Hamas basically
caved on all of the demands

626
00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:27.680
that they had previously been making.

627
00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:31.050
And I don’t want to overstate the nature
of this reconciliation.

628
00:33:31.050 --> 00:33:33.310
This was not a reconciliation

629
00:33:33.310 --> 00:33:36.360
of the political programs
of Fatah and Hamas.

630
00:33:36.360 --> 00:33:38.610
It wasn’t calling
for disarming Hamas in Gaza.

631
00:33:39.350 --> 00:33:42.490
It wasn’t addressing
the massive problems

632
00:33:42.490 --> 00:33:44.680
dealing with the security forces
and so forth.

633
00:33:44.680 --> 00:33:47.630
But it was a step
towards Palestinian unity,

634
00:33:47.630 --> 00:33:48.800
and an important one.

635
00:33:48.800 --> 00:33:52.470
And what it allowed for was
to have a single authority,

636
00:33:52.470 --> 00:33:57.920
with the ministries controlled
by Ramallah controlling Gaza once again.

637
00:33:58.570 --> 00:34:03.530
And what happened after this agreement,
Hamas expected two things at a minimum

638
00:34:03.530 --> 00:34:06.200
for basically caving
on all of their demands.

639
00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:10.010
The first thing they expected
was an easing in the closure

640
00:34:10.010 --> 00:34:13.800
imposed particularly by Egypt
on the Rafah crossing.

641
00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:18.030
The official reason
for that closure being in place

642
00:34:18.030 --> 00:34:22.110
was that Egypt had this campaign
against the Muslim Brotherhood

643
00:34:22.110 --> 00:34:23.300
and against Hamas,

644
00:34:23.300 --> 00:34:26.230
and security threats
in Sinai and so forth.

645
00:34:26.230 --> 00:34:27.510
And they said, "Look,

646
00:34:27.510 --> 00:34:31.300
if we’re no longer manning the border
and now you have PA security forces

647
00:34:31.300 --> 00:34:33.900
loyal to the leadership in Ramallah
at the border,"

648
00:34:33.900 --> 00:34:35.800
as Hamas agreed would be the case,

649
00:34:35.800 --> 00:34:38.660
"then there should at least
be some significant easing,

650
00:34:38.660 --> 00:34:41.100
and people should be able to exit Gaza."

651
00:34:42.150 --> 00:34:44.710
The second thing that they expected
was that the civil servants,

652
00:34:44.710 --> 00:34:47.510
whom they could no longer pay,
would begin to be paid.

653
00:34:48.110 --> 00:34:50.190
And neither of those things happened.

654
00:34:50.190 --> 00:34:52.870
In fact, life in Gaza just became worse.

655
00:34:52.870 --> 00:34:56.910
And months went by without any solution
to this building crisis,

656
00:34:56.910 --> 00:34:58.680
of Hamas having made these concessions

657
00:34:58.680 --> 00:35:02.020
in order to find a solution
out of the predicament in Gaza—

658
00:35:02.020 --> 00:35:05.430
and also, you know, for their own
self-interested reasons, as well.

659
00:35:05.430 --> 00:35:08.390
They didn’t want to be overthrown
by the population in Gaza

660
00:35:08.390 --> 00:35:11.260
at a time of great turmoil
and instability in the region

661
00:35:11.260 --> 00:35:13.020
when they couldn’t provide
for their people.

662
00:35:13.020 --> 00:35:17.110
So they handed the responsibility for
that over to the government in Ramallah.

663
00:35:17.110 --> 00:35:20.770
Presumably, that would be something
that’s in the interest of the West,

664
00:35:20.770 --> 00:35:26.620
which always states how much they want
to strengthen the leadership in Ramallah

665
00:35:26.620 --> 00:35:27.990
and strengthen Fatah.

666
00:35:27.990 --> 00:35:30.760
And if indeed that was
what they desired,

667
00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:33.010
then the day
that this government was formed,

668
00:35:33.010 --> 00:35:35.550
there should have been
increases in electricity in Gaza,

669
00:35:35.550 --> 00:35:38.450
the Rafah crossing
should have been opened significantly.

670
00:35:38.450 --> 00:35:40.130
Major changes should have taken place.

671
00:35:40.130 --> 00:35:44.000
The salaries should have been paid
on the day that government was formed.

672
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:47.770
And nothing of the sort took place.

673
00:35:47.770 --> 00:35:49.990
And nothing—if it had taken place,

674
00:35:49.990 --> 00:35:54.000
nothing would greater strengthen
the leadership in Ramallah and Fatah.

675
00:35:55.180 --> 00:35:57.770
And so, what happened subsequently

676
00:35:57.770 --> 00:36:01.980
were the kidnappings and murders
of the three Yeshiva students,

677
00:36:01.980 --> 00:36:05.090
the three Israeli students at Yeshiva
in the West Bank,

678
00:36:05.090 --> 00:36:07.130
followed by the revenge,

679
00:36:07.130 --> 00:36:08.300
torture and killing

680
00:36:08.300 --> 00:36:13.570
of the 16-year-old Palestinian boy
in East Jerusalem, Mohammed Abu Khdeir.

681
00:36:13.570 --> 00:36:19.840
And Hamas found itself in a campaign
in the West Bank, an Israeli campaign,

682
00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:22.170
to arrest hundreds of Hamas members

683
00:36:22.170 --> 00:36:26.280
in a search for the perpetrators
of the kidnapping and murder.

684
00:36:27.130 --> 00:36:31.680
Hamas did not claim responsibility
for the kidnappings and the murder,

685
00:36:31.680 --> 00:36:35.200
but it did say
that it supports such kidnappings

686
00:36:35.200 --> 00:36:37.260
as a means
of getting prisoners out of jail.

687
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:40.510
And it essentially found an opportunity—

688
00:36:40.510 --> 00:36:41.810
with rising protests

689
00:36:41.810 --> 00:36:45.060
particularly in the wake
of the killing of Mohammed Abu Khdeir,

690
00:36:46.140 --> 00:36:48.550
rising protests
particularly in Jerusalem

691
00:36:48.550 --> 00:36:50.030
and in Israel proper,

692
00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:52.380
it saw an opportunity

693
00:36:52.380 --> 00:36:56.260
to do what it felt it was going
to be forced to do in any event.

694
00:36:56.260 --> 00:36:59.020
Plan A for Hamas out of the predicament

695
00:36:59.020 --> 00:37:02.470
it and Gaza
found themselves in was reconciliation.

696
00:37:02.470 --> 00:37:03.840
That was thwarted.

697
00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:07.910
And so Plan B is the crisis
that we’re dealing with today.

698
00:37:08.830 --> 00:37:10.640
AARON MATÉ: Nathan Thrall,
and, of course, right before this,

699
00:37:10.640 --> 00:37:12.070
you also had a pretty major development

700
00:37:12.070 --> 00:37:15.580
with the U.S. agreeing
to recognize this unity government,

701
00:37:15.580 --> 00:37:17.150
with Hamas included.

702
00:37:17.150 --> 00:37:18.330
Now, in early June,

703
00:37:18.330 --> 00:37:21.170
as Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas
swore in the government,

704
00:37:21.940 --> 00:37:24.630
joining Hamas and Fatah
after years of conflict,

705
00:37:25.180 --> 00:37:27.380
State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki

706
00:37:27.380 --> 00:37:30.130
said the Obama administration
would recognize this new government.

707
00:37:30.700 --> 00:37:33.050
JEN PSAKI: At this point,
it appears that President Abbas

708
00:37:33.050 --> 00:37:36.080
has formed
an interim technocratic government

709
00:37:36.080 --> 00:37:39.800
that does not include
ministers affiliated with Hamas.

710
00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:43.540
Moving forward, we will be
judging this government by its actions.

711
00:37:44.100 --> 00:37:47.880
Based on what we know now,
we intend to work with this government,

712
00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:51.540
but we’ll be watching closely to make
ensure that it upholds the principles

713
00:37:51.540 --> 00:37:54.030
that President Abbas reiterated today.

714
00:37:55.210 --> 00:37:57.930
AARON MATÉ: Nathan Thrall,
can you talk about how Israel

715
00:37:57.930 --> 00:37:59.010
reacted to this decision,

716
00:37:59.010 --> 00:38:01.880
and then what the U.S.
then subsequently did in terms

717
00:38:01.880 --> 00:38:04.700
of its commitment
to recognizing the unity government?

718
00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:08.420
NATHAN THRALL: Sure.

719
00:38:08.420 --> 00:38:12.520
The step that the U.S.
took was opposed by Israel.

720
00:38:12.520 --> 00:38:16.690
And it has to be said
that the reason the U.S.—

721
00:38:16.690 --> 00:38:17.840
one of the main reasons

722
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:21.030
that the U.S. actually
took this extraordinary step

723
00:38:21.030 --> 00:38:24.540
of recognizing this unity
government was, first of all,

724
00:38:24.540 --> 00:38:28.110
their frustration with Israel
during the Kerry-led peace process.

725
00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:30.590
If that had not happened

726
00:38:30.590 --> 00:38:34.260
and that Kerry-led peace process
had received an extension,

727
00:38:34.260 --> 00:38:37.260
the U.S. almost certainly
would have opposed much more strongly

728
00:38:37.260 --> 00:38:39.500
the reconciliation agreement
than it did.

729
00:38:40.510 --> 00:38:43.300
But the second reason, of course,

730
00:38:43.300 --> 00:38:45.800
that the U.S. recognized the government

731
00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:51.010
was that it basically was a form
of capitulation by Hamas.

732
00:38:51.010 --> 00:38:54.210
There was not a single Hamas member
within this government,

733
00:38:54.210 --> 00:38:57.040
not a Hamas-affiliated minister
within the government.

734
00:38:57.040 --> 00:39:02.340
The government looked basically
identical to the U.S.-backed government

735
00:39:02.340 --> 00:39:03.980
in Ramallah that it was replacing.

736
00:39:04.930 --> 00:39:09.430
And so,
there was not even really a legal reason

737
00:39:09.430 --> 00:39:13.870
for the U.S.
to oppose the new government.

738
00:39:14.490 --> 00:39:15.800
But behind the scenes,

739
00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:20.730
the U.S. did act to ensure that
true reconciliation did not take place,

740
00:39:20.730 --> 00:39:24.080
that further steps toward reconciliation
did not take place.

741
00:39:24.080 --> 00:39:28.120
The U.S. very strongly
told President Abbas that, for example,

742
00:39:28.120 --> 00:39:31.260
the Palestinian Legislative Council
could not convene.

743
00:39:31.260 --> 00:39:34.350
Why? Because the Palestinian
Legislative Council,

744
00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:38.130
because of the 2006 elections
in the West Bank and Gaza,

745
00:39:38.130 --> 00:39:39.810
which Hamas won in both places,

746
00:39:40.570 --> 00:39:45.150
has a majority, a strong majority,
of Hamas parliamentarians.

747
00:39:45.150 --> 00:39:48.450
And if that Legislative Council
were to convene—

748
00:39:48.450 --> 00:39:52.900
and Hamas saw that as a critical part
of this reconciliation agreement:

749
00:39:52.900 --> 00:39:55.610
If they were giving up the power

750
00:39:55.610 --> 00:39:57.160
that they had won through elections

751
00:39:57.160 --> 00:39:59.850
to a group of people
who had not been elected,

752
00:39:59.850 --> 00:40:02.940
then at the very least
they expected to have some kind

753
00:40:02.940 --> 00:40:05.380
of legislative check on this government.

754
00:40:05.380 --> 00:40:07.720
And the U.S. told Abbas very clearly

755
00:40:07.720 --> 00:40:10.840
that there would be a cut
in American funding

756
00:40:10.840 --> 00:40:13.180
and there could be no support
for this unity government,

757
00:40:13.180 --> 00:40:15.530
if the Legislative Council
were to convene.

758
00:40:15.530 --> 00:40:20.240
And there were numerous other steps
towards reconciliation

759
00:40:20.830 --> 00:40:25.490
that could not take place
because of European and U.S. opposition.

760
00:40:25.490 --> 00:40:28.610
And it should be said also
that the Palestinian Authority

761
00:40:28.610 --> 00:40:31.680
itself was very reluctant
to implement the agreement

762
00:40:31.680 --> 00:40:34.970
and was dragging its feet considerably.

763
00:40:34.970 --> 00:40:37.870
You can say, partly, they
were doing it because of these threats

764
00:40:37.870 --> 00:40:39.600
from the U.S. and Europe,

765
00:40:39.600 --> 00:40:44.120
but there was certainly a lot of foot
dragging on their part, as well.

766
00:40:45.300 --> 00:40:48.450
AMY GOODMAN: Nathan Thrall
is speaking to us from Jerusalem,

767
00:40:48.450 --> 00:40:51.390
senior analyst
of the International Crisis Group.

768
00:40:51.390 --> 00:40:53.810
AMY GOODMAN: Gideon Levy is with us
from Tel Aviv,

769
00:40:53.810 --> 00:40:57.520
the Ha’aretz columnist and a member
of the editorial board.

770
00:40:58.150 --> 00:41:05.050
You, Gideon Levy, in a piece,
wrote that "Israel does not want peace."

771
00:41:05.050 --> 00:41:06.770
That was the headline.

772
00:41:06.770 --> 00:41:08.020
Why?

773
00:41:12.220 --> 00:41:14.060
GIDEON LEVY: You just have to look
at the record.

774
00:41:14.060 --> 00:41:15.810
I mean, sure, Israel wants peace.

775
00:41:15.810 --> 00:41:19.000
Israel just doesn’t want a just peace.

776
00:41:19.680 --> 00:41:21.140
And it’s all about justice.

777
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:23.450
You look backwards,

778
00:41:23.450 --> 00:41:25.720
and you ask yourself: In which stage,

779
00:41:25.720 --> 00:41:29.230
in which moment, was Israel willing

780
00:41:29.230 --> 00:41:31.060
to give up the occupation?

781
00:41:31.060 --> 00:41:35.710
Give me one example
in which there was a genuine readiness

782
00:41:35.710 --> 00:41:37.650
to put an end to the occupation.

783
00:41:37.650 --> 00:41:39.650
It was never there.

784
00:41:39.650 --> 00:41:44.240
It was all about gaining time
and maintaining the status quo.

785
00:41:44.240 --> 00:41:48.620
And it’s also now about gaining time
and maintaining the status quo—

786
00:41:48.620 --> 00:41:53.960
namely, the West Bank occupied,

787
00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:57.970
Gaza under siege,
peaceful life in Israel.

788
00:41:57.970 --> 00:42:01.180
This formula cannot last forever.

789
00:42:01.180 --> 00:42:04.600
And I wish I’ll be wrong,

790
00:42:04.600 --> 00:42:07.410
but I cannot recall one example

791
00:42:07.410 --> 00:42:12.890
in which there was a genuine willingness
to put an end to the occupation.

792
00:42:12.890 --> 00:42:16.310
This was never.
There were all kind of—we had Oslo.

793
00:42:16.310 --> 00:42:19.060
We had other peace talks.

794
00:42:19.060 --> 00:42:21.260
But it was never there.

795
00:42:21.260 --> 00:42:28.240
And if you want the most ultimate proof
for it, it’s the settlements.

796
00:42:28.240 --> 00:42:31.680
Nobody is saying
we’ll continue to build settlements

797
00:42:31.680 --> 00:42:37.040
if he has an intention
to return those lands.

798
00:42:37.040 --> 00:42:40.530
But Israel never
stopped building settlements.

799
00:42:40.530 --> 00:42:43.860
And as Israel never
stopped building settlements,

800
00:42:43.860 --> 00:42:47.140
Israel said to the Palestinians
and to the world,

801
00:42:47.140 --> 00:42:49.720
"I have no intention
to give up this piece of land."

802
00:42:50.980 --> 00:42:53.560
AARON MATÉ: Gideon Levy,
you also wrote a recent piece

803
00:42:53.560 --> 00:42:56.760
that was called "Israel’s Real Purpose
in Gaza Operation?

804
00:42:56.760 --> 00:42:58.170
To Kill Arabs."

805
00:42:58.170 --> 00:43:00.130
And you write,
"Since the first Lebanon war,

806
00:43:00.130 --> 00:43:01.360
more than 30 years ago,

807
00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:05.730
the killing of Arabs has become
Israel’s primary strategic instrument."

808
00:43:06.340 --> 00:43:07.910
Can you explain this for us?

809
00:43:11.720 --> 00:43:15.050
GIDEON LEVY: Again, I wish
I wouldn’t write those harsh things,

810
00:43:15.050 --> 00:43:17.390
but look at reality.

811
00:43:17.390 --> 00:43:24.030
All the recent wars
or operations in the recent 30 years

812
00:43:24.030 --> 00:43:30.370
were finally aimed at civilian
populations, with horrifying scenes,

813
00:43:30.370 --> 00:43:36.040
with unproportional means,
like in those days in Gaza.

814
00:43:36.040 --> 00:43:40.900
Finally, a war
between Israel and Palestinians,

815
00:43:40.900 --> 00:43:43.230
in the recent—and Israel and Lebanon—

816
00:43:43.230 --> 00:43:47.950
in the recent 30 years
looks always the same:

817
00:43:47.950 --> 00:43:51.180
Israelis killing many, many civilians,

818
00:43:51.180 --> 00:43:52.630
unproportionally,

819
00:43:53.130 --> 00:43:56.200
and the resistance,
the Palestinian resistance,

820
00:43:56.200 --> 00:43:59.980
is trying to fight back.

821
00:43:59.980 --> 00:44:01.840
But, as I wrote in this article,

822
00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:05.420
it’s a meeting
between an elephant and a fly,

823
00:44:05.420 --> 00:44:07.790
in terms of capabilities and equipment.

824
00:44:07.790 --> 00:44:11.120
And it always ends up the same,

825
00:44:11.120 --> 00:44:15.860
with hundreds
and hundreds civilian casualties

826
00:44:15.860 --> 00:44:18.050
on the Palestinian or Lebanese side,

827
00:44:18.650 --> 00:44:23.780
with, thanks God, many,
many fewer or much fewer casualties—

828
00:44:23.780 --> 00:44:25.590
and many times not at all—

829
00:44:26.120 --> 00:44:27.810
in Israelis’ side.

830
00:44:27.810 --> 00:44:32.240
And here we go to the next circle,
to the next cycle,

831
00:44:32.240 --> 00:44:35.230
to the next confrontation.

832
00:44:35.230 --> 00:44:37.890
AMY GOODMAN: Gideon Levy,
you also wrote a piece,

833
00:44:37.890 --> 00:44:40.930
"Lowest Deeds from Loftiest Heights,"

834
00:44:40.930 --> 00:44:44.330
about the Air Force pilots
who are bombing Gaza.

835
00:44:44.970 --> 00:44:49.450
Can you talk about what you said
and the response to this piece?

836
00:44:54.460 --> 00:44:55.650
GIDEON LEVY: This article

837
00:44:55.650 --> 00:44:59.700
was published one week ago
in the middle of the operation.

838
00:45:00.620 --> 00:45:08.760
Israel almost got united in a very
aggressive reaction to this article.

839
00:45:09.370 --> 00:45:16.320
Things became so bad that I need to be
accompanied by a bodyguard those days.

840
00:45:17.050 --> 00:45:19.710
Israel is not tolerant in those days

841
00:45:19.710 --> 00:45:23.070
and not ready to listen
to any kind of criticism.

842
00:45:23.790 --> 00:45:29.030
What I tried to write is that watching
at all those horrible scenes in Gaza—

843
00:45:29.670 --> 00:45:30.790
and, believe me,

844
00:45:30.790 --> 00:45:34.360
there are horrible scenes there,
because watching the Israeli TV,

845
00:45:34.360 --> 00:45:36.740
you see none, or almost none,

846
00:45:36.740 --> 00:45:39.440
but watching international networks,

847
00:45:39.440 --> 00:45:41.760
you can see the real tragedy there—

848
00:45:42.600 --> 00:45:45.230
someone has to be taken
accountable for this.

849
00:45:45.230 --> 00:45:47.200
Someone is responsible for this.

850
00:45:47.980 --> 00:45:50.090
And I thought that the pilots,

851
00:45:50.090 --> 00:45:52.630
who are the best of our sons,

852
00:45:52.630 --> 00:45:56.560
the most intelligent ones
and the most highly appreciated ones—

853
00:45:56.560 --> 00:45:58.810
really, the elite of Israeli society—

854
00:45:59.940 --> 00:46:03.660
they take part in this,

855
00:46:03.660 --> 00:46:08.810
and they cannot remain out of any kind
of responsibility,

856
00:46:08.810 --> 00:46:13.830
or at least some kind of moral doubts

857
00:46:13.830 --> 00:46:15.650
about what they are doing.

858
00:46:15.650 --> 00:46:17.510
Yes, they don’t see their victims:

859
00:46:17.510 --> 00:46:18.770
They sit in the cockpit.

860
00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:22.840
But I thought they should see
and confront their victims,

861
00:46:22.840 --> 00:46:24.240
the civilian victims,

862
00:46:24.240 --> 00:46:29.170
the whole families which were
exterminated in the recent days.

863
00:46:29.170 --> 00:46:31.860
And I aimed it to them,

864
00:46:31.860 --> 00:46:36.300
and I succeeded, at least, in creating
a huge public debate in Israel.

865
00:46:37.180 --> 00:46:38.550
AMY GOODMAN: You said
they should resist,

866
00:46:38.550 --> 00:46:40.660
that they shouldn’t engage
in the bombing?

867
00:46:44.440 --> 00:46:45.630
GIDEON LEVY: I didn’t say so.

868
00:46:45.630 --> 00:46:51.960
I just say that in 2003,
27 very courageous pilots

869
00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:57.010
did not participate,
wrote a letter of refusal

870
00:46:57.010 --> 00:47:00.060
and said they don’t want
to take part in this.

871
00:47:00.060 --> 00:47:03.250
I say that this time
there is even not one.

872
00:47:03.250 --> 00:47:05.600
I didn’t go further than this.

873
00:47:05.600 --> 00:47:08.550
We don’t know yet all the details,

874
00:47:08.550 --> 00:47:13.610
but I would expect at least
some kind of awareness

875
00:47:13.610 --> 00:47:18.560
and public discussion about this issue,
because they cannot be above,

876
00:47:18.560 --> 00:47:22.150
above discussion or above doubts.

877
00:47:22.150 --> 00:47:25.620
Also, pilots can be doubtful.

878
00:47:25.620 --> 00:47:27.530
AMY GOODMAN: You are now traveling
with a bodyguard?

879
00:47:31.240 --> 00:47:32.750
GIDEON LEVY: Unfortunately, yes.

880
00:47:32.750 --> 00:47:34.000
AMY GOODMAN: Why?

881
00:47:37.160 --> 00:47:41.140
GIDEON LEVY: Because the level
of threats and the atmosphere

882
00:47:41.140 --> 00:47:42.810
in the street.

883
00:47:42.810 --> 00:47:45.970
And, believe me,
I’m quite experienced with threats,

884
00:47:46.570 --> 00:47:51.450
but now it’s becoming really unpleasant
and maybe dangerous.

885
00:47:51.450 --> 00:47:52.640
I don’t know.

886
00:47:52.640 --> 00:47:57.040
But too many people
warned me that my life is in danger.

887
00:47:57.040 --> 00:47:58.490
I don’t know if it’s true.

888
00:47:58.990 --> 00:48:02.090
But Ha’aretz, my newspaper,
decided not to take risks,

889
00:48:02.090 --> 00:48:05.560
and I had to take a bodyguard, yes.

890
00:48:08.250 --> 00:48:12.860
AARON MATÉ: I want to ask
about this new Palestinian effort

891
00:48:12.860 --> 00:48:16.250
to take Israel
to the International Criminal Court.

892
00:48:16.250 --> 00:48:18.200
Speaking to ABC News this past weekend,

893
00:48:18.200 --> 00:48:19.910
the influential Palestinian legislator

894
00:48:19.910 --> 00:48:23.440
and scholar Hanan Ashrawi said
the Palestine Liberation Organization

895
00:48:23.440 --> 00:48:26.410
has decided to apply to join
the International Criminal Court,

896
00:48:26.410 --> 00:48:29.340
which could open up
war crimes charges against Israel.

897
00:48:29.340 --> 00:48:32.120
HAMISH MACDONALD: You have threatened
to bring forward the application,

898
00:48:32.120 --> 00:48:36.350
an application for Palestine
to join International Criminal Court.

899
00:48:36.350 --> 00:48:38.130
HANAN ASHRAWI: Yes.
HAMISH MACDONALD: Are you doing that?

900
00:48:38.130 --> 00:48:40.810
HANAN ASHRAWI: Yes,
we have taken the decision,

901
00:48:41.530 --> 00:48:44.920
and we are going to accede
to the Rome Statute,

902
00:48:44.920 --> 00:48:49.260
which would qualify us to bring cases
to the International Criminal Court.

903
00:48:49.830 --> 00:48:51.820
But I don’t believe
the world has to wait.

904
00:48:53.610 --> 00:48:55.620
AARON MATÉ: Gideon Levy, your reaction?

905
00:48:55.620 --> 00:48:58.820
Obviously, the Palestinian Authority
has dithered for a long time

906
00:48:58.820 --> 00:49:01.580
on joining
these international conventions

907
00:49:01.580 --> 00:49:03.830
under Israeli and U.S. pressure.

908
00:49:03.830 --> 00:49:08.170
Is this a positive sign now that they’re
talking about going to the ICC?

909
00:49:12.460 --> 00:49:15.810
GIDEON LEVY: I am one
of those who believe that the only way

910
00:49:15.810 --> 00:49:17.840
to get out of this vicious circle

911
00:49:18.420 --> 00:49:20.330
is by international intervention,

912
00:49:20.330 --> 00:49:22.750
because Israel
will not change by itself.

913
00:49:23.730 --> 00:49:28.390
And the only way
is also by making Israel pay a price

914
00:49:28.390 --> 00:49:30.900
for the crimes of the occupation.

915
00:49:32.110 --> 00:49:33.610
And for this,

916
00:49:33.610 --> 00:49:38.280
there must be a wake-up call
for the international community,

917
00:49:38.280 --> 00:49:39.910
which is rather passive—

918
00:49:40.810 --> 00:49:42.400
and especially so,

919
00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:44.770
the American administration,

920
00:49:44.770 --> 00:49:47.100
the administration
of the United States, who could do—

921
00:49:47.100 --> 00:49:52.460
who could have done so much more
and is doing so little, so little.

922
00:49:53.300 --> 00:49:56.500
So any kind
of step toward this direction,

923
00:49:56.500 --> 00:50:00.590
hopefully, will be a wake-up call
for Israel, first of all,

924
00:50:00.590 --> 00:50:01.980
and for the international community.

925
00:50:03.180 --> 00:50:06.960
AMY GOODMAN: We have just lost
Gideon Levy at the studio in Tel Aviv.

926
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:08.340
We thank him for being with us,

927
00:50:08.340 --> 00:50:12.340
the Ha’aretz columnist, member
of the newspaper’s editorial board,

928
00:50:12.340 --> 00:50:15.070
author of The Punishment of Gaza.

929
00:50:15.070 --> 00:50:17.760
And, Nathan Thrall,
we want to thank you for being with us,

930
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:20.190
senior analyst
at the International Crisis Group,

931
00:50:20.190 --> 00:50:23.100
covering Gaza, Israel,
Jordan and the West Bank.

932
00:50:23.100 --> 00:50:25.920
We will link to your op-ed piece
in The New York Times

933
00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:29.210
headlined "How the West Chose War
in Gaza."

934
00:50:29.720 --> 00:50:30.950
This is Democracy Now!

935
00:50:30.950 --> 00:50:34.520
When we come back,
we’ll talk about the numbers

936
00:50:34.520 --> 00:50:39.960
of Palestinian refugees,
of the displaced, over 100,000.

937
00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:42.260
We’ll go to a spokesperson
for the United Nations

938
00:50:42.260 --> 00:50:46.960
Relief and Works Agency
for Palestine Refugees, known as UNRWA.

939
00:50:46.960 --> 00:50:48.210
Stay with us.

940
00:50:54.550 --> 00:51:04.070
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!,
democracynow.org,

941
00:51:04.070 --> 00:51:16.170
The War and Peace Report.

942
00:51:16.170 --> 00:51:53.930
I’m Amy Goodman, with Aaron Maté.

943
00:51:53.930 --> 00:51:55.860
AARON MATÉ: While the two-week-old
Israeli offensive on Gaza

944
00:51:55.860 --> 00:51:59.990
has killed more than 600 Palestinians
and 27 Israeli soldiers,

945
00:51:59.990 --> 00:52:03.320
we turn now to look at the residents
of Gaza who have been displaced.

946
00:52:03.320 --> 00:52:06.670
The U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees
said Monday the number

947
00:52:06.670 --> 00:52:11.660
of people seeking refuge at its sites
in Gaza has soared to more than 100,000.

948
00:52:11.660 --> 00:52:13.680
This is Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon.

949
00:52:14.220 --> 00:52:15.720
SECRETARY-GENERAL BAN KI-MOON: Violence
must stop.

950
00:52:15.720 --> 00:52:17.150
It must stop now.

951
00:52:18.710 --> 00:52:22.200
All sides must provide
the necessary space

952
00:52:22.200 --> 00:52:25.670
to aid the victims,
assist the wounded

953
00:52:26.370 --> 00:52:29.980
and extend the relief
to trapped civilians.

954
00:52:29.980 --> 00:52:35.880
These immediate steps should open
the door to a more permanent ceasefire.

955
00:52:36.820 --> 00:52:39.240
Gaza is an open wound,

956
00:52:39.930 --> 00:52:41.860
and band-aid won’t help.

957
00:52:43.170 --> 00:52:49.700
There must be a plan after the aftermath
that allows Gaza to breathe and heal.

958
00:52:50.740 --> 00:52:54.810
Recovery and reconstruction
is more needed than ever.

959
00:52:54.810 --> 00:52:57.140
AMY GOODMAN: That’s
U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon.

960
00:52:57.140 --> 00:52:59.270
For more, we go back to Jerusalem,

961
00:52:59.270 --> 00:53:00.820
where we’re joined
by Christopher Gunness,

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spokesperson
for the United Nations

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00:53:02.500 --> 00:53:05.460
Relief and Works Agency
for Palestine Refugees.

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The agency is known as UNRWA.

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Chris, welcome back to Democracy Now!

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CHRISTOPHER GUNNESS: Thank
you very much, Amy.

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00:53:10.290 --> 00:53:13.120
AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk
about the situation for refugees

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on the ground in Gaza right now?

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CHRISTOPHER GUNNESS: The situation
for refugees on the ground in Gaza right

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00:53:20.040 --> 00:53:23.280
now is unimaginably catastrophic.

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Since that figure
that you just gave out, we put out,

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it’s now gone up by 2,000.

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That’s just in the last hour or so,
which I think is a testimony

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to the intensity
of the Israeli ground offensive,

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which has led to a crisis
of human displacement.

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UNRWA is accommodating the displaced
in nearly 70 shelters.

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Our top priority is, of course, food,
water, medicine, hygiene, sanitation.

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00:53:53.770 --> 00:53:56.450
But first and foremost,
of course, in our concerns

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is the question of security,
because don’t forget that in 2008, 2009,

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we took direct hits
from the Israeli army

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with white phosphorus in buildings
which were housing hundreds

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of refugees in exactly the same sorts
of circumstances.

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00:54:13.850 --> 00:54:15.220
On one occasion,

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our main compound in Gaza
was directly hit with white phosphorus,

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and the warehouse burned down.

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00:54:21.510 --> 00:54:23.860
The Secretary-General condemned it.

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00:54:23.860 --> 00:54:26.930
And interestingly, that took place
just as he arrived in the region.

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He also—

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the Israeli defense minister apologized,

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00:54:31.430 --> 00:54:33.940
and Israel paid millions
in compensation.

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00:54:33.940 --> 00:54:36.420
But to be honest,
that is not good enough.

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00:54:36.420 --> 00:54:39.220
All parties must abide
by their obligations

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00:54:39.220 --> 00:54:40.720
under international law.

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00:54:40.720 --> 00:54:43.330
They must respect the sanctity
of civilian life

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00:54:43.330 --> 00:54:45.850
and the inviolability
of U.N. premises.

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00:54:45.850 --> 00:54:48.810
And very quickly on that subject,
just a few days ago,

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we strongly condemned the groups
or group who put in one of our schools

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00:54:54.380 --> 00:54:56.270
a cache of 20 rockets.

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00:54:56.270 --> 00:55:01.620
So, all sides need to respect
the obligations under international law

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for the protection of civilians

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00:55:03.390 --> 00:55:07.060
and respect the inviolability
of United Nations premises.

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00:55:07.620 --> 00:55:10.830
AARON MATÉ: You mentioned the targeting
of your facilities in 2008 and 2009.

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Is any of that happening today?

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00:55:12.170 --> 00:55:15.500
Is the Israeli military targeting
your schools and your shelters?

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00:55:16.590 --> 00:55:20.530
CHRISTOPHER GUNNESS: Well,
we have no evidence of that, as I speak.

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00:55:20.530 --> 00:55:27.110
An initial report has come through
of one of our schools in central Gaza,

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00:55:27.110 --> 00:55:32.400
where internally displaced people
have taken refuge, has been hit.

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00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:36.470
We have sent an investigation team
out to the site.

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It is an extremely worrying
and concerning development.

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00:55:40.830 --> 00:55:43.620
And we pray that our facilities,

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with civilians in them,
are not being hit.

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00:55:45.990 --> 00:55:48.250
As I say, it’s an initial report.

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00:55:48.250 --> 00:55:50.860
We’re investigating,
and we hope to have more soon.

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00:55:50.860 --> 00:55:53.920
AMY GOODMAN: Explain further what it is
that you understand happened,

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Christopher Gunness.

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00:55:55.880 --> 00:55:58.970
CHRISTOPHER GUNNESS: Well, it’s
impossible to say more at this stage.

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We know that one of our schools,

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a girls’ school in central Gaza,

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which had been turned
into one of the shelters

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in which we are housing
more than 100,000 people,

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00:56:11.000 --> 00:56:12.580
took a direct hit.

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00:56:12.580 --> 00:56:15.330
I understand there may have been
an injury.

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But it’s very early days.

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00:56:16.790 --> 00:56:18.390
We’re investigating,

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but it seems to be
an extremely worrying development.

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00:56:22.420 --> 00:56:24.730
AARON MATÉ: Chris Gunness,
can you describe these facilities

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where so many people are taking refuge?

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What are the conditions like there?

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CHRISTOPHER GUNNESS: Very good question,
because in ordinary times,

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inasmuch as anything is ever ordinary
in Gaza, these are schools.

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And they are schools which we use
to educate a thousand pupils at a time.

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So, there are classrooms,
with a schoolyard, like any school,

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I guess, anywhere in America
or anywhere in the world.

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Suddenly they’ve been transformed
into reception centers

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for thousands of people,

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and thousands of people
who are staying there 24/7.

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So you can imagine the raft of problems
that that brings with it.

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Sanitation is a huge problem.

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As we speak, a massive airlift
is underway from Dubai.

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A cargo plane
carrying 150 metric tons of aid

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00:57:12.440 --> 00:57:15.210
has arrived
in the Jordanian capital, Amman.

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That’s been put—
some of it’s been put on trucks,

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and a 15-truck convoy
is now at the Israeli border with Jordan

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and will come in, we hope,
perhaps as early as tomorrow to Gaza,

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carrying, for example [no audio]—

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AMY GOODMAN: Chris, it—
CHRISTOPHER GUNNESS: —blankets,

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hygiene kits.

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00:57:33.190 --> 00:57:36.140
These are desperately needed items,

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because as we speak,

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displaced people,
the hungry, the needy, the sick,

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00:57:41.490 --> 00:57:47.240
the elderly, babies, women, the dying
are streaming into our facilities.

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00:57:47.240 --> 00:57:50.070
And we desperately need money,
principally,

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00:57:50.070 --> 00:57:54.220
but also in-kind items
such as these coming from Dubai.

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00:57:54.220 --> 00:57:57.410
Don’t forget, UNRWA has had,
in the last few hours,

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to increase its flash appeal.

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00:57:59.980 --> 00:58:02.290
We had launched a flash appeal
for $60 million,

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00:58:02.860 --> 00:58:05.540
and we’ve had to nearly double that—

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00:58:05.540 --> 00:58:07.250
it’s now $115 million—

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00:58:07.250 --> 00:58:08.980
because we’re simply overwhelmed

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00:58:08.980 --> 00:58:12.550
by the numbers that are pouring
into our facilities in Gaza right now.

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00:58:13.170 --> 00:58:15.060
AMY GOODMAN: Chris Gunness,
I want to thank you for being with,

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00:58:15.060 --> 00:58:17.030
speaking to us from Jerusalem.

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00:58:17.030 --> 00:58:19.880
Chris Gunness is the spokesperson
for the United Nations

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00:58:19.880 --> 00:58:23.760
Relief and Works Agency
for Palestine Refugees, known as UNRWA.

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00:58:23.760 --> 00:58:26.440
And that does it for our broadcast.

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00:58:26.440 --> 00:58:29.450
You can get a copy of today’s show
by going to democracynow.org.

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00:58:29.450 --> 00:58:30.650
Democracy Now! is hiring.

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00:58:30.650 --> 00:58:32.350
We have openings
for administrative director,

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00:58:32.350 --> 00:58:34.250
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00:58:34.250 --> 00:58:36.100
Visit democracynow.org/jobs

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00:58:36.100 --> 00:58:37.170
for more information.

1072
00:58:37.170 --> 00:58:41.380
I’ll be speaking in Martha’s Vineyard
at the Katharine Cornell Auditorium

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00:58:41.380 --> 00:58:42.560
in Vineyard Haven,

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00:58:42.560 --> 00:58:47.030
7:00 on July 26, Saturday night.