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From Pacifica, this is Democracy Now!

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These past two weeks, my team has been
presenting evidence to a grand jury

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that just today returned indictments

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against all six officers
for the following offenses.

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Just over a month
after the death of Freddie Gray

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sparked massive protests in Baltimore,

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a grand jury
has indicted six police officers.

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One officer faces second-degree murder.

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Several others face manslaughter.

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We’ll go to Baltimore for the latest.

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Then to Santa Barbara, California.

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We have basically two miles
from shore a slick

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that’s approximately 3.7 miles long,

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that goes along the shoreline
heading east.

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And northeast, we have a slick offshore
that’s 5.3 miles.

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So a slick totaling about nine miles.

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California has declared a state
of emergency after a ruptured pipeline

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leaked as much as 100,000 gallons
of oil into the Pacific Ocean.

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The leak occurred near
the massive 1969 Santa Barbara spill

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that helped launch
the modern-day environmental movement,

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as well as Earth Day.

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Then to the legendary Native American
folk singer, Buffy Sainte-Marie.

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He’s the universal soldier

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And he really is to blame

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But his orders
comes from far away no more.

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They come from him and you and me

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And brothers can’t you see

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This is not the way
we put an end to war.

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Five decades
after writing the antiwar anthem,

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"Universal Soldier,

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" Buffy Sainte-Marie is out
with a new record, "Power in the Blood."

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She joins us live in studio.

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All that and more, coming up.

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Welcome to Democracy Now!,
democracynow.org,

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The War and Peace Report.

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I’m Amy Goodman.

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The self-proclaimed Islamic State

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has reportedly seized the last Syrian
government-controlled border crossing

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between Syria and Iraq.

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The Syrian Observatory

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for Human Rights says Syrian troops
have withdrawn from al-Tanf.

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ISIL’s latest advance
follows its capture of the Iraqi city

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of Ramadi and the ancient Syrian city
of Palmyra.

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UNESCO Director-General Irina Bokova
appealed for a ceasefire in Palmyra

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to preserve some of the world’s most
renowned historic structures.

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Irina Bokova: "I appeal to all parties
involved in the conflict

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for an immediate ceasefire
in and around Palmyra.

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It is an extremely important
World Heritage Site,

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which belongs to the whole of humanity,

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and we have the responsibility
to protect and preserve it.

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I can’t imagine that the world
will never see Palmyra anymore.

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And also, Palmyra is very closely linked
to the people living around it.

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The city of [Tadmur],

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which is in this oasis close
to the palm growth which are there,

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we want to protect also the civilians
equally as we protect the heritage."

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The United Nations meanwhile

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said it’s received reports
of Syrian government forces

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preventing residents
from leaving Palmyra,

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where ISIL forces
have been executing residents.

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Meanwhile, the U.S. military
has acknowledged a U.S. airstrike

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last year
in Syria likely killed two children,

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marking the first time the United States

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has admitted to civilian casualties
in the campaign against ISIL.

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The children were killed in a strike

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targeting the al-Qaeda-linked Khorasan
Group near Harim City.

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The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights
has put the civilian toll

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from the U.S.-led campaign
in Syria far higher,

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saying 131 civilians have been killed,
including 42 children.

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In Yemen, five Ethiopian refugees
were killed when Saudi shells

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struck an international aid office
in the town of Maydee.

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Ten other refugees were wounded.

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Airstrikes and deadly clashes
raged across Yemen Thursday,

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a day after the U.N.
announced it will convene a meeting

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of Yemen’s rival factions next week.

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There were reports
of further civilian casualties

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during intense Arab bombing,

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including eight members
of a single family

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killed in the province of Dhamar.

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Amnesty International has accused
both sides of the conflict

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in Eastern Ukraine
of carrying out war crimes,

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including torture and summary killings
of prisoners, on a near-daily basis.

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Former prisoners held
by both the Ukrainian government

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and pro-Russian rebels described abuses,

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including being beaten until their bones
broke, tortured with electric shocks

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and subjected to mock executions.

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In the United States, the Senate
has voted to end debate on a measure

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to give President Obama
fast-track authority

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to negotiate the secretive 12-nation
Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal,

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or TPP.

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The measure would let Obama
present the deal to Congress

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for a yes-or-note vote
with no amendments.

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It advanced despite opposition
across the political spectrum,

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from lawmakers including
Alabama Republican Senator Jeff Sessions

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and Democratic Ohio
Senator Sherrod Brown,

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who said the TPP would lead to job loss.

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Sen. Sherrod Brown: "We make decisions
here that throw people out of work.

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And even The Wall Street
Journal editorial page,

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the greatest cheerleader,

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the most vigorous,
vociferous cheerleader

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for free trade of any newspaper
in the country, I believe,

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even they acknowledge people are thrown
out of work from trade agreements

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because of the dislocation.

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But we’re going leave here,

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and we’re going to vote on this
without even having amendments

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on how to take care of those workers
and how to do trade enforcement.

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It simply doesn’t make sense."

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The NSA’s bulk collection of phone data

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may be on the verge of lapsing
as the Republican-led Senate scrambles

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to renew key portions of the PATRIOT Act

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before they expire.

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The Obama administration has warned
lawmakers they must act today,

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because it needs time
to halt the bulk spying program

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if they can’t reach a deal.

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The House passed a measure
to end bulk spying,

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then left for a recess set
to end June 1,

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when the program expires.

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Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell
had opposed any curbs to bulk spying

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and is now pressing
for a two-month extension

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of the program,

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which a federal appeals court
has ruled illegal.

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In Ireland, voters
are going to the polls today

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in a historic referendum
on legalizing same-sex marriage.

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The referendum would make Ireland
the first country in the world

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to adopt same-sex marriage
through a vote.

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Despite opposition from religious
leaders in the heavily Catholic country,

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opinion polls show the measure
is expected to pass.

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The president of the Boy Scouts
of America has called for an end

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to the organization’s ban
on LGBT adult leaders.

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Robert Gates,
who previously served as CIA director

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and as defense secretary
under Presidents George W. Bush

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and Obama, made the call
at a national meeting in Atlanta,

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Georgia.

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Robert Gates: "We must deal
with the world as it is,

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not as we might wish it would be.

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The status quo
in our movement’s membership standards

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cannot be sustained.

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We can expect more councils
to openly challenge the current policy.

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While technically we have the authority
to revoke their charters,

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such an action
would deny the lifelong benefits

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of scouting to hundreds of thousands
of boys and young men today,

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and vastly more in the future.

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I will not take that path."

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In 2013, the Boy Scouts of America

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lifted a ban on gay scouts,

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but not on gay adult leaders.

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A grand jury in Baltimore, Maryland,

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has indicted six Baltimore police
officers in the death of Freddie Gray.

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Gray’s family says his spine
was "80 percent severed at his neck"

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after he was arrested by police

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who accused him of making eye contact,
then running away.

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The indictments came nearly three weeks

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after Baltimore State’s
Attorney Marilyn Mosby

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announced her decision to bring
criminal charges against the officers.

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We’ll have more on Baltimore
after headlines.

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Protesters gathered in at least 20
cities across the country

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for a national day of action to honor
women of color killed by police.

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While names like Freddie Gray

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and Michael Brown
have become household terms,

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protesters
sought to elevate lesser-known names

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like Tanisha Anderson,
Rekia Boyd, Miriam Carey,

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Michelle Cusseaux, Shelly Frey,

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Kayla Moore and Aiyana Stanley-Jones.

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Hundreds gathered in San Francisco,

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many of them African-American women
who protested topless.

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Protester: "In America, we kill women,

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at 2 a.m., with no probable cause
and excessive force.

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In America, we kill women, at 2 p.m.,
with a gunshot to the head

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and no last words,
no second chance, no final prayers.

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In America, we kill women.

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We kill them this way
in Oakland, California,

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in Ferguson, Missouri,

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in Detroit, Michigan,

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in Boston, Massachusetts,

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in Chicago, Illinois.

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We kill them this way in America."

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To see our interview

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with law professor Kimberlé Crenshaw
and relatives

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of Rekia Boyd and Michelle Cusseaux
about the Say Her Name campaign,

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you can go to democracynow.org.

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In New York, the family
of an unarmed African-American man

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fatally shot in the dark stairway
of a Brooklyn housing project

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has filed a lawsuit against the city.

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Akai Gurley was 28 years old

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when he was killed
by Officer Peter Liang.

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Authorities have described his death
as a tragic accident,

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saying he was totally innocent.

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Gurley’s partner Kim
Ballinger’s attorney, Scott Rynecki,

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said Liang drew his weapon
for no reason.

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Scott Rynecki: "The officer
had absolutely no reason or provocation

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for having his gun
out of its holster, in his hand,

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and his finger on that trigger.

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So there’s a lot
of things here that must be looked into,

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both with the training
and in the matter —

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in the criminal case, as well."

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Hundreds of demonstrators
rallied in Olympia, Washington,

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after a police officer
shot two unarmed African-American men

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accused of trying to steal beer
from a grocery store.

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Officer Ryan Donald shot
and wounded Andre Thompson

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and his stepbrother Bryson Chaplin,

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claiming one of them
assaulted him with a skateboard.

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Both men are expected to survive.

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Officer Donald
is on administrative leave.

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Thousands of people descended
on McDonald’s headquarters in Oak Brook,

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Illinois, for a second day
to demand a $15-an-hour minimum wage

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and the right to unionize.

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Protesters delivered a petition
with 1.4 million signatures

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in support of worker demands.

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McDonald’s recently announced it
would start paying workers $1-per-hour

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above the local minimum wage

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at company-owned stores —

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only about 10 percent of its locations.

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Guatemalan President Otto Pérez Molina

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has fired several top officials
amid a corruption scandal

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which has prompted calls
for his resignation.

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President Pérez Molina
said he had dismissed his interior,

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energy and environment ministers,

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the intelligence chief
and other officials.

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This week at least 16 people,
including the central bank chief

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and head
of the Social Security Institute,

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were arrested on accusations of rigging
a contract for dialysis services

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in favor of a pharmaceutical firm.

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A number of patients
died after the shift.

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This follows an earlier probe
over a customs fee corruption ring,

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which prompted the vice president
to resign.

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And El Salvadoran Archbishop Óscar
Romero will be beatified Saturday

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in San Salvador
in a step toward sainthood.

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Archbishop Romero was known
as the "voice

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of the voiceless," an advocate
for the poor and leading critic

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of the U.S.-backed Salvadoran
military government.

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He was killed March 24, 1980,

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by members of a U.S.-backed death squad

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while delivering mass
at a hospital chapel.

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His assassination was ordered
by Salvadoran military officer

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Roberto D’Aubuisson, a graduate
of the U.S.-run School of the Americas.

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An envoy of Pope Francis
will lead his beatification

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before an expected audience
of hundreds of thousands of people.

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And those are some of the headlines
this is Democracy Now,

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Democracynow.org,

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the War and Peace Report.
I’m Amy Goodman.

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JUAN GONZÁLEZ: A grand jury has indicted
six Baltimore police officers

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in the death of Freddie Gray,

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clearing the path for a criminal trial
in the Maryland courts.

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Freddie Gray died on April 19th from
his injuries suffered in police custody.

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His family and attorney
say his voice box was crushed

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and his spine was "80 percent
severed at his neck."

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Gray’s death
sparked massive protests nationwide.

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At a news conference Thursday,

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Baltimore State’s Attorney Marilyn Mosby
announced the indictments.

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MARILYN MOSBY: Previously indicated,

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my office
conducted an independent investigation

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into the circumstances
surrounding the tragic incident

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with the death of Freddie Gray.

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On May 1st, our investigation revealed
that we had sufficient probable cause

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to bring charges
against six police officers.

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As our investigation has continued,

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additional information
has been discovered,

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and as is often the case
during an ongoing investigation,

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charges can and should be revised
based upon the evidence.

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These past two weeks, my team has been
presenting evidence to a grand jury

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that just today returned indictments

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against all six officers
for the following offenses.

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JUAN GONZÁLEZ: The indictments
came nearly three weeks after Mosby

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first announced her decision to bring
criminal charges against the officers.

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While some of the charges
have been amended,

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the most serious ones—

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second-degree murder
against Officer Caesar Goodson

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and involuntary manslaughter
against four of the other officers—

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remained intact.

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AMY GOODMAN: Well, for more,
we go to Baltimore, Maryland,

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where we’re joined by longtime
civil rights attorney A. Dwight Pettit.

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He specializes in criminal
and constitutional law,

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and has successfully tried dozens
of cases of police misconduct.

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A. Dwight Pettit,
welcome to Democracy Now!

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Your response to the grand jury
handing down the indictment?

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00:14:33.310 --> 00:14:36.990
A. DWIGHT PETTIT: Well, they came down,
as expected, so there’s no surprise.

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I’m glad to see that the amendments
that took place

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included reckless endangerment.

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I think that’s a catch-all
that I was sort of disappointed

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was not in the original charges,

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so I was glad to see that.

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And I was a little bit surprised,
but not really,

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to see that the false imprisonment
charges had been deleted.

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And I think maybe the state
realized that that was a stretch,

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even though it was very progressive
of her to bring the charges,

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but it might be a stress—

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a stretch to in fact
attach criminality to probable cause,

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whether it existed
or whether it didn’t exist.

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Other than that,

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there’s nothing new that’s any surprise.

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I anticipated the grand jury

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would follow the lead
of the state’s attorney

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and those charges would be transferred
to a true bill of indictment.

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00:15:24.880 --> 00:15:27.280
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Now, Dwight Pettit,
what about the claims

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from the policeman’s union

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that there’s a conflict of interest here
with the state’s attorney in this case?

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Could you respond to that?

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00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:37.020
A. DWIGHT PETTIT: Well,
I think they’re frivolous.

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I think that’s just a political
and personal attack on Ms. Mosby.

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I see nothing in their allegations

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that would warrant any type
of recusal of herself.

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00:15:46.570 --> 00:15:51.020
One of the striking parts about it
is when they talk about Billy Murphy

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00:15:51.020 --> 00:15:54.260
contributing $5,000 to Ms. Mosby.

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They, in fact, themselves, contributed
almost the same amount of money.

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And so that’s something that takes place
in politics anywhere you go:

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00:16:03.180 --> 00:16:04.620
People contribute money.

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And I don’t see anything there.

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00:16:05.850 --> 00:16:08.580
And her husband being a member
of the City Council,

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that’s ridiculous.

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So those accusations,
basically, I guess,

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was a response in terms of the FOP
just trying to muddy the waters.

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00:16:21.470 --> 00:16:22.920
One of the interesting things about it,

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00:16:22.920 --> 00:16:24.440
they called for a special prosecutor.

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00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:29.660
Well, we were fighting for special
prosecutors in the Legislature this year

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00:16:29.660 --> 00:16:31.920
in terms of all police reviews,

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00:16:31.920 --> 00:16:33.820
and the FOP opposed it.

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00:16:33.820 --> 00:16:36.520
And so they have totally
contradicted themselves.

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00:16:36.520 --> 00:16:41.080
And these motions, in terms of her
having any type of conflict of interest,

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00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:44.670
are, as she indicated,
just about ridiculous and nothing.

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00:16:44.670 --> 00:16:47.370
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And what about the whole
issue of the possible motion

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00:16:47.370 --> 00:16:50.770
for change of venue
when a trial occurs?

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00:16:50.770 --> 00:16:52.410
Here in New York City, of course,

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00:16:52.410 --> 00:16:56.420
we had the infamous case
of Amadou Diallo a decade ago.

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00:16:56.420 --> 00:16:59.950
And that—and there was a change of venue
all the way to Albany,

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00:16:59.950 --> 00:17:01.590
about 150 miles away,

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00:17:01.590 --> 00:17:04.270
producing a completely different jury

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00:17:04.270 --> 00:17:07.410
and eventually the acquittal
of all the officers involved.

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00:17:08.700 --> 00:17:11.430
A. DWIGHT PETTIT: Well, I think
that if there is a change of venue,

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00:17:11.430 --> 00:17:14.830
that would be a political decision
and not a legal decision.

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00:17:14.830 --> 00:17:18.010
I don’t see anything
in the law which would in fact

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00:17:18.010 --> 00:17:21.150
cause this case to be taken
from the jurors of Baltimore City.

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00:17:21.990 --> 00:17:27.510
There’s a tool in that legal process
called voir dire,

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00:17:27.510 --> 00:17:30.330
where you can use that
to make sure that persons

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00:17:30.330 --> 00:17:32.260
who might have heard about the case

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00:17:32.260 --> 00:17:34.540
can render a fair
and impartial decision.

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00:17:34.540 --> 00:17:38.200
And if pretrial publicity
is the issue, well,

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00:17:38.200 --> 00:17:40.980
this is a case
that has been exposed to the world.

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00:17:40.980 --> 00:17:44.710
And so, how does moving it
to another county in fact

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00:17:44.710 --> 00:17:49.240
cure the pretrial publicity
that everybody has been exposed to?

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00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:52.780
And so, voir dire, I think,
is sufficient to, in fact,

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00:17:52.780 --> 00:17:56.240
cure any problems
in terms of the jury pool.

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00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:59.810
I think if a judge
removes it from the city of Baltimore,

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00:17:59.810 --> 00:18:04.040
that will be more of a political
decision rather than a legal decision,

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00:18:04.040 --> 00:18:06.320
because I find no legal basis
for removal.

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00:18:06.320 --> 00:18:10.900
AMY GOODMAN: New cellphone video sheds
light on Freddie Gray’s fatal journey

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00:18:10.900 --> 00:18:12.880
in a Baltimore police van.

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00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:15.690
The footage obtained
by The Baltimore Sun

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00:18:15.690 --> 00:18:19.770
shows Freddie Gray lying motionless
as several police officers

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00:18:19.770 --> 00:18:23.780
shackle his ankles
and load him into the vehicle.

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00:18:23.780 --> 00:18:28.280
It appears to contradict earlier police
claims that Gray was "irate"

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00:18:28.280 --> 00:18:29.780
and "combative."

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00:18:29.780 --> 00:18:30.940
One of the officers,

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00:18:30.940 --> 00:18:35.040
Lieutenant Brian Rice,
reportedly threatened to use his Taser

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00:18:35.040 --> 00:18:38.260
on the eyewitness who was filming this.

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00:18:38.760 --> 00:18:42.730
Can you talk about this,
the significance of this, Dwight Pettit?

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00:18:43.970 --> 00:18:48.090
A. DWIGHT PETTIT: Well, you know,
I think the newly discovered evidence

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00:18:48.090 --> 00:18:51.580
that’s coming forth basically
supports the charges

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00:18:51.580 --> 00:18:56.510
that the state’s attorney has in fact
brought against the police officers.

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00:18:56.510 --> 00:18:58.060
And this intimidation—

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00:18:58.060 --> 00:18:59.320
I think the officer,

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00:18:59.320 --> 00:19:01.270
when he saw the lady
pull out the camera,

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00:19:01.270 --> 00:19:04.290
sort of threatened
to in fact move toward her,

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00:19:04.290 --> 00:19:06.310
or what have you—to some extent

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00:19:06.310 --> 00:19:09.530
is the normal conduct
of the Baltimore City Police Department.

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00:19:09.530 --> 00:19:12.050
I’ve been practicing law
here for 42 years.

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00:19:12.050 --> 00:19:16.170
I know I’ve handled over a hundred
or so police brutality cases.

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00:19:16.170 --> 00:19:19.590
We’ve won some of the largest verdicts
in the nation and the state.

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00:19:19.590 --> 00:19:21.700
And in the last 20 years,

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00:19:21.700 --> 00:19:26.460
I know, in terms of shootings of unarmed
African-American men and women

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00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:28.920
and so forth, I’ve handled over 25, 30.

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00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:32.390
This intimidation of witnesses
is a normal practice

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00:19:32.390 --> 00:19:35.720
and procedure
of the Baltimore City Police Department,

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00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:37.560
so that does not surprise me.

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00:19:37.560 --> 00:19:42.180
But I think, in terms of the first part
of your question, obviously,

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Freddie Gray was not doing those things
which should have subjected him

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00:19:46.190 --> 00:19:49.350
to any type
of brutality or type of force

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00:19:49.350 --> 00:19:51.560
that would in fact cause his death.

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00:19:51.560 --> 00:19:53.710
One of the interesting parts
of the evidence here

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00:19:53.710 --> 00:19:55.580
that I think we need to look for

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00:19:55.580 --> 00:19:58.940
and will appreciate will be the report
of the pathologist,

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00:19:58.940 --> 00:20:01.860
or if there is an independent pathology

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00:20:01.860 --> 00:20:04.170
secured
by the State’s Attorney’s Office,

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00:20:04.170 --> 00:20:07.190
what those pathology reports
or autopsies

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00:20:07.190 --> 00:20:11.570
indicate as to force requirements
and where the blows would have occurred

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00:20:11.570 --> 00:20:15.280
and how they could have occurred,
in terms of causation of death.

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00:20:15.280 --> 00:20:18.930
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And from your close
watching of the circumstances

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00:20:18.930 --> 00:20:20.170
around this case,

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00:20:20.170 --> 00:20:23.890
why do you think that the one officer
who was driving the van

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00:20:23.890 --> 00:20:26.210
was charged with second-degree murder?

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00:20:27.600 --> 00:20:31.020
A. DWIGHT PETTIT: Well, depraved-heart
murder is basically any conduct

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00:20:31.020 --> 00:20:33.570
which creates, or you’re aware of,

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00:20:33.570 --> 00:20:39.030
a very excessive condition
in terms of an extreme condition.

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00:20:39.030 --> 00:20:41.350
And I think that that is—

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00:20:41.350 --> 00:20:42.770
and you have to realize now,

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00:20:42.770 --> 00:20:44.600
although it says second-degree murder,

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00:20:44.600 --> 00:20:48.060
that’s not like murder
as we think of, in terms of that charge.

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00:20:48.060 --> 00:20:50.780
There’s no requirement
there for specific intent.

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00:20:50.780 --> 00:20:53.210
There’s no requirement
for premeditation.

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00:20:53.210 --> 00:20:56.050
There’s no requirement
for malice of forethought.

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00:20:56.050 --> 00:21:00.310
All you have to show is that the person
knew of a dangerous condition,

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00:21:00.310 --> 00:21:01.600
was aware of it,

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00:21:01.600 --> 00:21:07.170
and continued to act without in fact
addressing those dangerous conditions,

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00:21:07.170 --> 00:21:11.030
which in fact then led to the death
of the individual victim.

403
00:21:11.030 --> 00:21:12.060
And so, it’s not,

404
00:21:12.060 --> 00:21:13.530
just because it say murder—

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00:21:13.530 --> 00:21:17.070
depraved-heart murder
is not at the same level as murder

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00:21:17.070 --> 00:21:21.110
as we know murder one or,
in fact, murder two.

407
00:21:21.110 --> 00:21:24.050
It’s murder two,
but it’s a different standard.

408
00:21:24.050 --> 00:21:27.470
It’s more a standard of a non-action

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00:21:27.470 --> 00:21:32.040
and ignoring a certain condition
that you knew existed.

410
00:21:32.040 --> 00:21:35.020
And I think that’s what they’re saying
in terms of the driver

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00:21:35.020 --> 00:21:36.720
and what have you, that he saw this,

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00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:40.220
he had several opportunities
to see Mr. Gray’s condition,

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00:21:40.220 --> 00:21:41.630
he was aware of it.

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00:21:41.630 --> 00:21:44.490
Maybe he heard the pleas for help
and so forth.

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00:21:44.490 --> 00:21:47.200
And he knew that it was a perilous,
dangerous condition,

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00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:48.410
and he ignored it.

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00:21:48.410 --> 00:21:51.380
AMY GOODMAN: Dwight Pettit, can you
explain, for people around the country

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00:21:51.380 --> 00:21:55.620
and around the world,
the different systems that operate here?

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00:21:55.620 --> 00:21:59.590
I mean, in Baltimore now,
you have the state’s attorney.

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00:21:59.590 --> 00:22:01.460
She announced indictments.

421
00:22:01.460 --> 00:22:03.240
Now you have the grand jury.

422
00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:05.140
They’ve announced indictments.

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00:22:05.140 --> 00:22:08.120
Where does this process go from here?

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00:22:09.270 --> 00:22:12.530
A. DWIGHT PETTIT: Well, basically, when
the state’s attorney brings charges,

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00:22:12.530 --> 00:22:16.230
that’s just an initial type of thing.

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00:22:16.230 --> 00:22:20.810
The grand jury, in fact,
ratifies that by finding probable cause.

427
00:22:20.810 --> 00:22:24.350
It’s a very low standard
to in fact get an indictment.

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00:22:24.350 --> 00:22:28.310
That’s why people were so upset
with Ferguson and so forth, in New York,

429
00:22:28.310 --> 00:22:29.880
why they failed to get indictments,

430
00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:32.390
because that’s
the state’s attorney’s opportunity.

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00:22:32.390 --> 00:22:33.910
That’s her or his show.

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00:22:33.910 --> 00:22:35.130
There’s nobody there.

433
00:22:35.130 --> 00:22:38.310
It’s not an adversary proceeding.

434
00:22:38.310 --> 00:22:39.780
There’s no other lawyers.

435
00:22:39.780 --> 00:22:40.830
There’s no judge.

436
00:22:40.830 --> 00:22:45.100
And so, that takes place
at the request of the state’s attorney.

437
00:22:45.100 --> 00:22:46.990
The next thing will be the arraignment.

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00:22:46.990 --> 00:22:50.450
And when you get to arraignment,
where they would file appearances,

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00:22:50.450 --> 00:22:53.490
enter pleas of not guilty,
request trial by jury,

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00:22:53.490 --> 00:22:55.780
then you get into the issue of motions.

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00:22:55.780 --> 00:22:59.350
And motions will be filed for severance,
as we have already discussed.

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00:22:59.350 --> 00:23:01.470
The motions will be filed for removal.

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00:23:01.470 --> 00:23:02.820
And that will start—

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00:23:02.820 --> 00:23:04.900
and discovery will be turned over,

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00:23:04.900 --> 00:23:08.400
where the defense will get
all the evidence that the state has.

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00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:11.720
So, that’s when the ballgame
begins in reality.

447
00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:14.270
This is a state prosecution
in Baltimore City.

448
00:23:14.270 --> 00:23:17.580
It’s normally about a year
before a case comes to trial.

449
00:23:17.580 --> 00:23:21.400
But here, because of the national
attention and the worldwide attention,

450
00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:23.310
it might be expedited.

451
00:23:23.310 --> 00:23:26.070
And when those motions come in,
then we will see whether or not—

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00:23:26.070 --> 00:23:27.310
one of the big motions

453
00:23:27.310 --> 00:23:31.010
that we have to watch for is whether
there will be a motion for severance.

454
00:23:31.010 --> 00:23:35.530
If the case is severed
under the Supreme Court case of Bruton,

455
00:23:35.530 --> 00:23:38.430
meaning that if some one officer

456
00:23:38.430 --> 00:23:41.740
has made statements
which inculpates another officer,

457
00:23:41.740 --> 00:23:44.330
they might have a right
to separate trials.

458
00:23:44.330 --> 00:23:46.990
And then we will find
whether there will be one trial

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00:23:46.990 --> 00:23:48.940
or whether there will be six trials.

460
00:23:48.940 --> 00:23:52.560
And so,
that will also determine the time period

461
00:23:52.560 --> 00:23:57.470
in terms of when the trials
will take place,

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00:23:57.470 --> 00:23:59.880
whether we’re dealing
with one with six defendants

463
00:23:59.880 --> 00:24:05.030
or whether we’re dealing with six,
or numbers within that range.

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00:24:05.030 --> 00:24:07.730
And that all will be
determined by motions.

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00:24:07.730 --> 00:24:10.850
So, motions is the next major thing.

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00:24:10.850 --> 00:24:12.850
In Baltimore, usually the trial judge

467
00:24:12.850 --> 00:24:16.250
that’s going to have the case
also is the motions judge.

468
00:24:16.250 --> 00:24:18.830
And when that is assigned, that judge,

469
00:24:18.830 --> 00:24:21.260
she or he will determine these motions,

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00:24:21.260 --> 00:24:24.430
that which we speak of now,
in terms of recusal,

471
00:24:24.430 --> 00:24:26.480
in terms of removal,

472
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:27.990
in terms of severance,

473
00:24:27.990 --> 00:24:31.760
and then, of course, all your motions
to dismiss the indictment for vagueness,

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00:24:31.760 --> 00:24:33.410
etc., etc., etc.

475
00:24:33.410 --> 00:24:35.810
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Dwight Pettit,
what about the rapidity

476
00:24:35.810 --> 00:24:38.010
with which this indictment came down?

477
00:24:38.010 --> 00:24:41.750
We’ve seen cases where, in Ferguson,
or in Staten Island with Eric Garner,

478
00:24:41.750 --> 00:24:46.310
it took months
before a grand jury heard the evidence

479
00:24:46.310 --> 00:24:48.410
and rendered a decision.

480
00:24:48.410 --> 00:24:50.520
But here we’re talking just a few weeks.

481
00:24:51.800 --> 00:24:54.450
A. DWIGHT PETTIT: Well, this state’s
attorney, she’s just elected,

482
00:24:54.450 --> 00:24:59.820
and she ran on the basis of her office
would be open and transparent,

483
00:24:59.820 --> 00:25:01.690
and she would follow the evidence.

484
00:25:01.690 --> 00:25:07.200
And I think she was very, very aware
of the national sentiment,

485
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:08.910
as well as the local sentiment,

486
00:25:08.910 --> 00:25:13.600
in terms of police being protected
by the State’s Attorney’s Office,

487
00:25:13.600 --> 00:25:14.650
which is also—

488
00:25:14.650 --> 00:25:16.910
it’s what has occurred here
in Baltimore City

489
00:25:16.910 --> 00:25:19.290
in my 42 years of practice here.

490
00:25:19.290 --> 00:25:23.140
The state’s attorney really works
in conjunction with the police officer

491
00:25:23.140 --> 00:25:25.810
to, in fact, in many cases,
cover for the police.

492
00:25:25.810 --> 00:25:30.850
So I think she was making
a broad statement and a bold statement

493
00:25:30.850 --> 00:25:34.010
that she was going
to follow her campaign promises,

494
00:25:34.010 --> 00:25:35.970
not meaning that all police are bad,

495
00:25:35.970 --> 00:25:37.510
not charging all police,

496
00:25:37.510 --> 00:25:39.640
because she comes
out of a police family,

497
00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:43.650
but she was going to move expeditiously
and follow the evidence,

498
00:25:43.650 --> 00:25:45.260
and wherever evidence led,

499
00:25:45.260 --> 00:25:48.880
she was going to in fact
bring those charges or those cases.

500
00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:51.340
And because it happened
in a quick manner,

501
00:25:51.340 --> 00:25:53.560
I do not think that in fact

502
00:25:53.560 --> 00:25:58.010
distracts from the substance
of the allegations and the indictment.

503
00:25:58.010 --> 00:26:00.340
AMY GOODMAN: A. Dwight Pettit,
we want to thank you for being with us,

504
00:26:00.340 --> 00:26:04.330
legendary civil rights attorney
in Baltimore specializing in criminal

505
00:26:04.330 --> 00:26:05.930
and constitutional law,

506
00:26:05.930 --> 00:26:10.380
successfully tried dozens
of cases of police misconduct,

507
00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:13.750
won the largest constitutional rights
verdict in Maryland history,

508
00:26:13.750 --> 00:26:15.260
one of the largest in the country,

509
00:26:15.260 --> 00:26:18.670
in 2004 at $105 million.

510
00:26:18.670 --> 00:26:21.690
Of course, we’ll continue
to follow the Freddie Gray case.

511
00:26:21.690 --> 00:26:25.950
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!,
as we premiere today on Democracy Now!

512
00:26:25.950 --> 00:26:31.000
a new song by Neil Young
called "Rock Starbucks."

513
00:26:31.840 --> 00:26:35.170
NEIL YOUNG: If you don’t like
to rock Starbucks, a coffee shop

514
00:26:35.170 --> 00:27:15.590
Well, you better
change your station 'cause

515
00:27:15.590 --> 00:27:21.120
that ain't all that we got

516
00:27:21.120 --> 00:27:37.970
Yeah, I want a cup of coffee,
but I don’t want a GMO

517
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:49.880
I like to start my day off
without helping Monsanto

518
00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:52.990
Monsanto

519
00:27:52.990 --> 00:28:02.920
Let our farmers grow
What they want to grow

520
00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:04.030
AMY GOODMAN: "Rock Starbucks."

521
00:28:04.030 --> 00:28:05.900
That’s a new video by Neil Young

522
00:28:05.900 --> 00:28:07.060
he just shared with us.

523
00:28:07.060 --> 00:28:10.580
It’s from his forthcoming album,
The Monsanto Years.

524
00:28:10.580 --> 00:28:13.260
This is Democracy Now!,
democracynow.org,

525
00:28:13.260 --> 00:28:14.450
The War and Peace Report.

526
00:28:14.450 --> 00:28:16.750
I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González.

527
00:28:17.770 --> 00:28:20.440
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: A cleanup effort
residents say was slow to start

528
00:28:20.440 --> 00:28:23.600
is now underway off the coast
of Santa Barbara, California,

529
00:28:23.600 --> 00:28:28.250
where crude oil from a broken pipeline
leaked into the Pacific Ocean

530
00:28:28.250 --> 00:28:31.470
and washed ashore
at Refugio State Beach.

531
00:28:31.470 --> 00:28:36.410
The company that operates the pipeline
first said 21,000 gallons had leaked,

532
00:28:36.410 --> 00:28:40.340
but then increased their estimate
to 105,000 gallons.

533
00:28:40.340 --> 00:28:42.010
This is Michelle Rogow,

534
00:28:42.530 --> 00:28:46.180
on-scene coordinator
for the Environmental Protection Agency,

535
00:28:46.180 --> 00:28:47.200
speaking Thursday.

536
00:28:48.060 --> 00:28:50.680
MICHELLE ROGOW: Last night,
crews worked with archaeological support

537
00:28:50.680 --> 00:28:54.960
and monitoring
to excavate more than 400 yards

538
00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:57.260
of saturated—oil-saturated soil,

539
00:28:57.260 --> 00:29:01.080
starting at the far end
south of the contaminated area

540
00:29:01.080 --> 00:29:03.250
in the actual release location.

541
00:29:04.830 --> 00:29:08.800
Air monitoring is being conducted
in that area for both volatiles

542
00:29:08.800 --> 00:29:10.710
as well as for hydrogen sulfide.

543
00:29:10.710 --> 00:29:17.730
And this morning, crews are moving down
toward the highway from the source area

544
00:29:17.730 --> 00:29:20.870
and continuing
to excavate contaminated soil,

545
00:29:20.870 --> 00:29:25.050
beginning to flush out
the actual culvert, the drainage pathway

546
00:29:25.050 --> 00:29:33.330
that led from the upland side
of the highway down to the ocean,

547
00:29:34.110 --> 00:29:38.360
and are working to capture that oil
and collect it.

548
00:29:38.870 --> 00:29:41.820
AMY GOODMAN: On Thursday,
The Santa Barbara Independent

549
00:29:41.820 --> 00:29:46.320
revealed the ruptured pipeline,
operated by Plains All American,

550
00:29:46.320 --> 00:29:49.200
is the only pipeline in the county

551
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:53.440
that’s not required to be equipped
with an automatic shutdown valve

552
00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:54.890
in case of a leak,

553
00:29:54.890 --> 00:29:58.980
because it operates outside
the regulatory oversight of the county.

554
00:29:58.980 --> 00:30:01.890
This latest spill
recalls a catastrophic blowout

555
00:30:01.890 --> 00:30:06.170
at an oil well in the same area in 1969,
when Union Oil’s drilling platform

556
00:30:06.170 --> 00:30:08.520
spewed an estimated
three million gallons of crude

557
00:30:08.520 --> 00:30:10.420
along 30 miles of coastline.

558
00:30:10.420 --> 00:30:12.890
Well, for more, we go directly
to Santa Barbara, California,

559
00:30:12.890 --> 00:30:14.140
where we’re joined by two guests.

560
00:30:14.140 --> 00:30:15.660
Tyler Hayden is with us,

561
00:30:15.660 --> 00:30:18.640
news editor and reporter
with The Santa Barbara Independent,

562
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:22.190
and Linda Krop, chief counsel
for the Environmental Defense Center.

563
00:30:22.190 --> 00:30:24.650
We welcome you both to Democracy Now!

564
00:30:24.650 --> 00:30:25.960
Linda Krop, let’s start with you.

565
00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:29.930
Just explain the extent of the damage
and what’s being done about it.

566
00:30:32.590 --> 00:30:35.510
LINDA KROP: The spill
has had a devastating effect already,

567
00:30:35.510 --> 00:30:36.990
and it’s very frustrating.

568
00:30:36.990 --> 00:30:39.410
I was at the site the first evening,

569
00:30:39.410 --> 00:30:42.340
and nothing was being done
to prevent the oil

570
00:30:42.340 --> 00:30:44.190
from getting into the ocean,

571
00:30:44.190 --> 00:30:45.680
which should have been done immediately

572
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:48.990
because the spill actually occurred
about a quarter mile from the ocean.

573
00:30:48.990 --> 00:30:51.190
So when we got there Tuesday evening,

574
00:30:51.190 --> 00:30:56.000
the beach was just blanketed
with a solid array of oil.

575
00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:57.700
The high tide was coming in.

576
00:30:57.700 --> 00:30:59.580
The waves were washing the oil
out to sea,

577
00:30:59.580 --> 00:31:02.260
which makes it virtually impossible
to clean up.

578
00:31:02.260 --> 00:31:04.090
They had no shore-based response.

579
00:31:04.090 --> 00:31:07.010
They had no offshore response.

580
00:31:07.010 --> 00:31:09.490
They had identified
and contained the leak,

581
00:31:09.490 --> 00:31:12.560
but they had done nothing to prevent
the oil from getting into the ocean.

582
00:31:12.560 --> 00:31:16.110
And now we have dead sea life.

583
00:31:16.110 --> 00:31:19.200
Birds, a sea lion have been oiled.

584
00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:22.060
And who knows how much
the damage will be?

585
00:31:22.060 --> 00:31:26.150
But it’s already spread several miles
towards Goleta and Santa Barbara.

586
00:31:26.150 --> 00:31:27.410
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Linda Krop,
of course,

587
00:31:27.410 --> 00:31:29.370
for the residents in your area,

588
00:31:29.370 --> 00:31:33.850
that brings to mind the terrible tragedy

589
00:31:33.850 --> 00:31:36.440
that perhaps many
of our younger audience

590
00:31:37.230 --> 00:31:41.520
don’t know about or weren’t born
when it occurred, the 1969 spill there.

591
00:31:41.520 --> 00:31:42.890
Could you talk about that?

592
00:31:45.030 --> 00:31:49.450
LINDA KROP: Yes, the 1969 spill occurred
from an offshore platform blowout.

593
00:31:49.450 --> 00:31:51.270
And after that spill occurred,

594
00:31:51.270 --> 00:31:54.550
everyone thought that that was the end
to offshore oil drilling in our area,

595
00:31:54.550 --> 00:31:55.670
and that’s not the case.

596
00:31:55.670 --> 00:32:00.100
The federal government
did continue to approve more platforms

597
00:32:00.100 --> 00:32:03.050
off of our coast going into the 1980s.

598
00:32:03.050 --> 00:32:07.960
But one of the good results
from the 1969 oil spill was that that is

599
00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:10.770
when most of our federal
environmental laws were passed,

600
00:32:10.770 --> 00:32:12.910
in the early 1970s.

601
00:32:12.910 --> 00:32:15.720
And we have a lot more laws
on the books.

602
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:17.320
We have a lot more regulations.

603
00:32:17.320 --> 00:32:20.580
We have much more advanced technology.

604
00:32:20.580 --> 00:32:24.500
And yet, you still have oil spills
happening all over the place.

605
00:32:24.500 --> 00:32:28.510
And what this shows us is it doesn’t
matter how strong the regulations,

606
00:32:28.510 --> 00:32:32.080
how advanced the technology is,
oil spills are inevitable.

607
00:32:32.080 --> 00:32:35.890
And the only way to stop oil spills
is to stop oil development.

608
00:32:35.890 --> 00:32:38.980
This pipeline
was not an isolated incident.

609
00:32:38.980 --> 00:32:42.990
This pipeline was carrying oil
from our offshore platforms,

610
00:32:42.990 --> 00:32:46.720
and if those oil platforms weren’t
there, the pipeline wouldn’t be there,

611
00:32:46.720 --> 00:32:48.890
and our beaches would not be fouled.

612
00:32:48.890 --> 00:32:51.660
AMY GOODMAN: Tyler Hayden,
can you talk about the company involved?

613
00:32:51.660 --> 00:32:57.550
Plains All American Pipeline
has well over a hundred, nearly 200,

614
00:32:58.320 --> 00:33:01.850
violations around it
over the last years.

615
00:33:01.850 --> 00:33:06.400
Talk about its record
and how the spill was discovered.

616
00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:10.800
TYLER HAYDEN: Well, the spill
first came to our attention

617
00:33:10.800 --> 00:33:12.230
at around noon on Tuesday,

618
00:33:12.230 --> 00:33:13.950
when we heard that county firefighters

619
00:33:13.950 --> 00:33:17.020
had responded to smell of gas
in the area.

620
00:33:17.020 --> 00:33:21.560
And they quickly saw what was described
to us as a small river of oil spilling

621
00:33:21.560 --> 00:33:23.000
into the ocean.

622
00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:25.290
They traced it back up
to the underground pipeline

623
00:33:25.290 --> 00:33:28.000
operated by Plains All American Pipeline

624
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:33.330
and saw that the underground pipe
had ruptured and was spilling oil.

625
00:33:33.860 --> 00:33:36.050
And from then, that’s when the—

626
00:33:36.050 --> 00:33:41.010
that’s when at least the attention
was brought to the—for the pipeline,

627
00:33:41.010 --> 00:33:42.260
if not—

628
00:33:42.820 --> 00:33:45.700
as Linda said,
there wasn’t a lot of response.

629
00:33:45.700 --> 00:33:50.630
And Plains, as you said, has a bit
of a checkered past when it comes to—

630
00:33:50.630 --> 00:33:51.790
when it comes to its safety

631
00:33:51.790 --> 00:33:55.170
and the enforcement
of its infrastructure.

632
00:33:55.670 --> 00:33:58.380
And from what I understand,
there’s been about 175 incidents

633
00:33:58.380 --> 00:34:02.190
in the last 10 years
involving Plains pipes.

634
00:34:02.190 --> 00:34:06.790
It’s in the business
of transporting and storing crude,

635
00:34:06.790 --> 00:34:09.970
and has about 6,000 miles
of pipeline across the country.

636
00:34:09.970 --> 00:34:13.670
And I know during those spills recently

637
00:34:13.670 --> 00:34:17.290
that they haven’t been
fined much by the EPA.

638
00:34:17.290 --> 00:34:21.090
I think the largest fine
they received was about $280,000.

639
00:34:21.090 --> 00:34:26.690
So, there’s definitely some heightened
scrutiny after this incident,

640
00:34:26.690 --> 00:34:30.150
but it sounds like they’ve
had some issues for quite a while.

641
00:34:30.150 --> 00:34:33.890
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And the issue of
why there was not an automatic shutoff

642
00:34:33.890 --> 00:34:35.030
on this pipeline?

643
00:34:37.110 --> 00:34:39.050
TYLER HAYDEN: Right.
So, what we found out yesterday

644
00:34:39.050 --> 00:34:42.360
was this pipeline has been a bit
of a regulatory mess.

645
00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:45.210
When it was installed in 1987,

646
00:34:45.210 --> 00:34:48.450
Plains successfully sued the county
to have the pipeline

647
00:34:48.450 --> 00:34:51.550
not be under the county’s management
or jurisdiction.

648
00:34:51.550 --> 00:34:54.900
They argued that because it
crosses state lines,

649
00:34:54.900 --> 00:34:57.540
that it should be
under federal regulations.

650
00:34:58.200 --> 00:35:00.650
It was until 2013,

651
00:35:00.650 --> 00:35:03.370
and the federal government
said that we didn’t—you know,

652
00:35:03.370 --> 00:35:09.690
they didn’t have the personnel
or the—excuse me, the equipment

653
00:35:09.690 --> 00:35:14.570
for just sort
of the need to manage the pipeline,

654
00:35:14.570 --> 00:35:16.550
so they passed it back
down to the state.

655
00:35:16.550 --> 00:35:20.870
And the state has been
managing it since 2013.

656
00:35:20.870 --> 00:35:23.660
But because it wasn’t
under the county’s management,

657
00:35:23.660 --> 00:35:26.400
it wasn’t required
to have an automatic shutoff system,

658
00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:29.040
that should have been able
to detect the leak

659
00:35:29.040 --> 00:35:31.260
and should have been able
to shut it off much sooner.

660
00:35:31.260 --> 00:35:33.730
AMY GOODMAN: At a Thursday morning
news conference,

661
00:35:33.730 --> 00:35:38.490
a Plains All American oil company
spokesperson, Patrick Hodgins,

662
00:35:38.490 --> 00:35:41.540
dodged questions
about the company’s safety record.

663
00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:45.300
PATRICK HODGINS: We’re required
to fill out certain federal documents

664
00:35:45.300 --> 00:35:47.120
to report all incidents.

665
00:35:47.120 --> 00:35:50.920
We have a tolerance of zero tolerance
for failure to report.

666
00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:52.770
We report all incidents,

667
00:35:52.770 --> 00:35:56.100
regardless of they’re required
to be reported or not.

668
00:35:56.100 --> 00:35:57.550
So, that gives—

669
00:35:57.550 --> 00:35:58.930
we got to put it in context.

670
00:35:58.930 --> 00:36:01.940
We report all incidents,
including all near misses,

671
00:36:01.940 --> 00:36:03.810
which do not have a negative impact.

672
00:36:03.810 --> 00:36:06.650
And the purpose
of that is so that we can learn,

673
00:36:06.650 --> 00:36:09.450
so we don’t have an incident
that does have a negative impact.

674
00:36:09.450 --> 00:36:11.990
So, again,
I would like to put it into context.

675
00:36:11.990 --> 00:36:15.240
We report all incidents
regardless if it’s required or not.

676
00:36:15.240 --> 00:36:17.840
And if you looked at the—over the years,

677
00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:21.690
the scrutiny and the requirement
to report more and more incidents

678
00:36:21.690 --> 00:36:22.980
of lesser volume,

679
00:36:22.980 --> 00:36:24.700
where at one time it was five barrels,

680
00:36:24.700 --> 00:36:26.040
it’s now down to five gallons.

681
00:36:26.040 --> 00:36:28.150
But again, if it gets on the ground,

682
00:36:28.150 --> 00:36:30.130
we do require it to be reported.

683
00:36:30.130 --> 00:36:31.600
REPORTER: But how do you
rate your record?

684
00:36:32.490 --> 00:36:34.450
PATRICK HODGINS: Again, our goal
is to continue to improve.

685
00:36:34.450 --> 00:36:35.830
Our goal is zero.

686
00:36:35.830 --> 00:36:37.330
And so,
we’re going to continue to improve.

687
00:36:37.330 --> 00:36:38.870
We’re not happy unless it’s zero.

688
00:36:38.870 --> 00:36:40.670
So that is our focus.

689
00:36:40.670 --> 00:36:41.920
REPORTER: Are you happy?

690
00:36:44.190 --> 00:36:46.050
AMY GOODMAN: Despite its spill record,

691
00:36:46.050 --> 00:36:50.500
Plains All American reportedly has plans
to construct a pipeline in Arkansas,

692
00:36:50.500 --> 00:36:53.980
where an ExxonMobil pipeline
that ruptured in 2013

693
00:36:53.980 --> 00:36:59.410
spilled nearly 135,000 gallons
of crude oil into a residential area.

694
00:36:59.410 --> 00:37:04.860
Linda Krop, are we talking about a plain
all-American oil spill here?

695
00:37:04.860 --> 00:37:06.600
And what do you think needs to happen?

696
00:37:09.730 --> 00:37:12.680
LINDA KROP: I think what needs
to happen, most of all,

697
00:37:12.680 --> 00:37:17.800
is awareness that the technology
will never be perfect.

698
00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:20.260
This pipeline
should have shut down immediately,

699
00:37:20.260 --> 00:37:21.330
and it did not.

700
00:37:21.870 --> 00:37:25.420
But we also had an oil spill here
from an offshore pipeline

701
00:37:25.420 --> 00:37:27.140
in 1997,

702
00:37:27.140 --> 00:37:31.490
where the pipeline did shut down
immediately when a leak was detected,

703
00:37:31.490 --> 00:37:34.540
and an operator
on the offshore platform

704
00:37:34.540 --> 00:37:39.350
turned the pipeline back on
and overrode the shutdown system.

705
00:37:39.350 --> 00:37:41.930
So, unfortunately,

706
00:37:41.930 --> 00:37:46.690
whether it’s the technology
or whether it’s operator error,

707
00:37:46.690 --> 00:37:48.800
there are always going to be oil spills.

708
00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:51.060
There is absolutely no way
to prevent that.

709
00:37:51.060 --> 00:37:56.090
And this spill has already had
a very significant impact in an area

710
00:37:56.090 --> 00:37:59.870
that is one of the most
biologically rich on the planet.

711
00:37:59.870 --> 00:38:02.830
It’s referred to
as the northern Galapagos.

712
00:38:02.830 --> 00:38:06.110
And we just have to stop this cycle.

713
00:38:06.110 --> 00:38:08.120
We have to protect these areas.

714
00:38:08.850 --> 00:38:09.980
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Tyler,

715
00:38:09.980 --> 00:38:15.350
the connection
of oil giant Exxon to this oil?

716
00:38:18.030 --> 00:38:19.940
TYLER HAYDEN: You know,
I can’t speak to that.

717
00:38:19.940 --> 00:38:24.660
I know that the pipeline
was servicing the Exxon refinery

718
00:38:24.660 --> 00:38:26.290
a little ways up the coast.

719
00:38:26.290 --> 00:38:28.140
But as I mentioned, Plains—

720
00:38:28.140 --> 00:38:31.070
it’s a pipeline
owned and operated by Plains.

721
00:38:31.070 --> 00:38:35.030
I don’t know if Exxon has much,
if any, involvement in this spill.

722
00:38:36.120 --> 00:38:38.090
AMY GOODMAN: Who ends up
paying, Linda Krop,

723
00:38:38.090 --> 00:38:40.120
for all of this, the cleanup?

724
00:38:40.120 --> 00:38:42.750
And do you have high hopes
it will be cleaned up?

725
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:48.280
LINDA KROP: The first part
of the question is easier to answer.

726
00:38:48.280 --> 00:38:50.340
Plains will have to pay for the cleanup,

727
00:38:50.340 --> 00:38:52.560
and they will probably
be assessed some fines

728
00:38:52.560 --> 00:38:54.300
and maybe even some penalties,

729
00:38:54.850 --> 00:38:59.640
if there’s a demonstration
of some neglect or wrongdoing.

730
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:03.320
I am not confident that the spill
will be cleaned up,

731
00:39:03.320 --> 00:39:06.460
because so much of the oil
reached the ocean.

732
00:39:06.460 --> 00:39:12.170
On average, an ocean oil spill is only
cleaned up about 15 percent or so.

733
00:39:12.790 --> 00:39:14.620
Even as of day three,

734
00:39:14.620 --> 00:39:18.470
they did not have enough equipment
on the water, enough boom,

735
00:39:18.470 --> 00:39:22.270
because they said they were restricted
by how many vessels they had out there.

736
00:39:22.270 --> 00:39:26.460
So they had maybe a half a mile
of boom for a spill that was, you know,

737
00:39:26.460 --> 00:39:28.760
well over nine or 10 miles.

738
00:39:28.760 --> 00:39:32.690
So, we do not think that the oil
is going to be cleaned up,

739
00:39:32.690 --> 00:39:35.530
and I think we’re going
to see the impacts for quite some time.

740
00:39:36.290 --> 00:39:40.600
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And finally,
the amazing citizen response,

741
00:39:40.600 --> 00:39:43.070
hundreds of people
coming out onto the beaches

742
00:39:43.070 --> 00:39:45.620
to try to do what they could

743
00:39:45.620 --> 00:39:47.520
to clean up this mess?

744
00:39:50.350 --> 00:39:53.390
LINDA KROP: The community response
has been amazing.

745
00:39:54.160 --> 00:39:55.940
Everyone wants to help.

746
00:39:55.940 --> 00:40:00.880
Unfortunately, the agencies
responsible for the cleanup

747
00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:04.820
are trying to divert people
to other activities,

748
00:40:04.820 --> 00:40:07.380
because there are
some health implications.

749
00:40:07.380 --> 00:40:10.160
You know, this oil
contains toxic chemicals,

750
00:40:10.160 --> 00:40:13.440
so they’re worried
about people inhaling the toxics.

751
00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:18.000
They’re worried about people
coming into skin contact.

752
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:19.870
They’re worried
that people aren’t trained.

753
00:40:19.870 --> 00:40:24.320
So they’re diverting people
to some websites to volunteer,

754
00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:25.590
and then you go to those websites,

755
00:40:25.590 --> 00:40:27.310
and it says, "No volunteers needed."

756
00:40:27.310 --> 00:40:28.940
So,

757
00:40:28.940 --> 00:40:31.430
people are starting
to get very frustrated.

758
00:40:31.430 --> 00:40:32.780
They really want to help.

759
00:40:32.780 --> 00:40:34.710
They’d like to be on the beach helping.

760
00:40:34.710 --> 00:40:38.220
And so far, there hasn’t really
been an avenue for them.

761
00:40:38.860 --> 00:40:41.050
But yeah,
the community is really up in arms.

762
00:40:41.050 --> 00:40:42.890
We’ve been contacted by a lot

763
00:40:42.890 --> 00:40:47.340
of businesses that don’t normally align
with the environmental groups here,

764
00:40:47.340 --> 00:40:48.800
but they’re even saying, you know,

765
00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:50.750
"What can we do?

766
00:40:50.750 --> 00:40:52.610
" And they’re feeling the hit.

767
00:40:52.610 --> 00:40:54.230
The tourists aren’t coming.

768
00:40:54.230 --> 00:40:56.650
The recreational industries
are suffering.

769
00:40:56.650 --> 00:40:59.150
So we’re already seeing
that economic hit, as well.

770
00:40:59.150 --> 00:41:02.530
AMY GOODMAN: Let’s end with one
of the members of the cleanup crew

771
00:41:02.530 --> 00:41:04.490
who’s been helping
to clean up the oil spill

772
00:41:04.490 --> 00:41:06.950
off the coast
of Santa Barbara, California.

773
00:41:07.590 --> 00:41:09.340
CYRUS CASTANEDA: We arrived today.
There was one gentleman

774
00:41:09.340 --> 00:41:14.630
on the beach shoveling oil
from the ocean into the buckets,

775
00:41:14.630 --> 00:41:16.040
and we decided to join him.

776
00:41:16.040 --> 00:41:19.080
And the next thing you know,
a lot more of us came down here.

777
00:41:19.080 --> 00:41:21.040
It was really early
in the morning, about 7:00 a.m.

778
00:41:21.940 --> 00:41:25.260
And so, we’ve been
shoveling buckets ever since.

779
00:41:25.260 --> 00:41:26.990
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Cyrus Castaneda.

780
00:41:26.990 --> 00:41:29.650
And we will continue
to cover this story, of course.

781
00:41:29.650 --> 00:41:31.230
We want to thank our guests, Linda Krop,

782
00:41:31.230 --> 00:41:34.450
chief counsel for the Environmental
Defense Center, based in Santa Barbara,

783
00:41:34.450 --> 00:41:36.280
as well as Tyler Hayden, news editor

784
00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:38.930
and reporter
with The Santa Barbara Independent.

785
00:41:38.930 --> 00:41:40.010
This is Democracy Now!

786
00:41:40.010 --> 00:41:44.390
When we come back, Buffy Sainte-Marie
joins us live in studio.

787
00:41:44.390 --> 00:41:45.640
Stay with us.

788
00:42:25.030 --> 00:43:31.220
AMY GOODMAN: The legendary
Native American folksinger

789
00:43:31.220 --> 00:43:36.720
Buffy Sainte-Marie singing
in our Democracy Now! studio in 2009.

790
00:43:36.720 --> 00:43:39.340
This is Democracy Now!,
democracynow.org,

791
00:43:39.340 --> 00:43:40.420
The War and Peace Report.

792
00:43:40.420 --> 00:43:42.810
I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González.

793
00:43:42.810 --> 00:43:45.570
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, today, as we
head into the Memorial Day weekend,

794
00:43:45.570 --> 00:43:48.670
Buffy Sainte-Marie
returns to the Democracy Now! studios.

795
00:43:48.670 --> 00:43:53.090
That song, "Universal Soldier," has
become one of the classic antiwar songs

796
00:43:53.090 --> 00:43:54.810
of the 1960s.

797
00:43:54.810 --> 00:43:58.010
She once said, "It’s
about individual responsibility

798
00:43:58.010 --> 00:44:02.000
for war and how the old feudal thinking
kills us all."

799
00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:03.960
Buffy Sainte-Marie wrote the song

800
00:44:03.960 --> 00:44:05.900
in 1964.

801
00:44:05.900 --> 00:44:10.010
A year later, just months after U.S.
ground forces invaded Vietnam,

802
00:44:10.010 --> 00:44:14.000
the British singer Donovan
turned it into a hit.

803
00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:17.550
Five decades later,
she is still making powerful music.

804
00:44:17.550 --> 00:44:19.480
She has just released Power
in the Blood.

805
00:44:19.480 --> 00:44:22.470
It’s her first studio album since 2008.

806
00:44:22.470 --> 00:44:24.970
AMY GOODMAN: Buffy Sainte-Marie has led
a remarkable life.

807
00:44:24.970 --> 00:44:29.280
She was born in 1941
on the Piapot Cree First Nations Reserve

808
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:30.970
in Saskatchewan, Canada.

809
00:44:30.970 --> 00:44:33.860
She grew up in Massachusetts
after becoming an orphan.

810
00:44:33.860 --> 00:44:35.010
In the early '60s,

811
00:44:35.010 --> 00:44:37.020
she became a leading figure
in the Toronto

812
00:44:37.020 --> 00:44:39.270
and Greenwich Village folk scenes.

813
00:44:39.270 --> 00:44:42.980
Her song "Until It's Time for You to Go"
was recorded by everyone

814
00:44:42.980 --> 00:44:46.080
from Elvis Presley
to Barbara Streisand to Neil Diamond.

815
00:44:46.080 --> 00:44:49.530
She has also written and sung
about the struggles of Native American

816
00:44:49.530 --> 00:44:51.820
and First Nations people for decades.

817
00:44:51.820 --> 00:44:55.120
She worked
with the American Indian Movement

818
00:44:55.120 --> 00:44:58.060
and began a foundation
for American Indian education.

819
00:44:58.570 --> 00:45:00.140
Her political activism

820
00:45:00.140 --> 00:45:04.590
would lead her to be largely blacklisted
from commercial radio in the '70s.

821
00:45:04.590 --> 00:45:07.280
On her new album,
she re-records two songs

822
00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:11.140
from what's become known
as her "blacklist years."

823
00:45:11.140 --> 00:45:12.200
Buffy Sainte-Marie,

824
00:45:12.200 --> 00:45:14.450
welcome back to Democracy Now!
BUFFY SAINTE-MARIE: Thanks.

825
00:45:14.450 --> 00:45:16.070
AMY GOODMAN: Tell us
about your new album.

826
00:45:16.070 --> 00:45:19.530
It’s great to have you
back in our, well, for you, new studio.

827
00:45:19.530 --> 00:45:20.830
BUFFY SAINTE-MARIE: Thanks.

828
00:45:20.830 --> 00:45:24.390
AMY GOODMAN: And how you
incorporate the past into the present.

829
00:45:25.130 --> 00:45:27.800
BUFFY SAINTE-MARIE: Well, the new album
is called Power in the Blood.

830
00:45:27.800 --> 00:45:32.840
And after I last saw you,
I had put together a band,

831
00:45:32.840 --> 00:45:35.850
and I told them that we were going
on a two-year world tour,

832
00:45:35.850 --> 00:45:40.590
and all of a sudden it was like five
or six years into a two-year world tour.

833
00:45:40.590 --> 00:45:45.340
And True North Records came to me
and said, "Do want to make a record?"

834
00:45:45.340 --> 00:45:48.730
So we had been doing all these songs,
new ones, old ones,

835
00:45:48.730 --> 00:45:50.630
songs that either had been forgotten

836
00:45:50.630 --> 00:45:54.200
or had never made it
to airplay in the first place,

837
00:45:54.200 --> 00:45:55.770
and a lot of new ones, as well.

838
00:45:55.770 --> 00:45:57.220
So I was just ready to record.

839
00:45:57.220 --> 00:45:59.050
So that’s what this album is about.

840
00:45:59.050 --> 00:46:01.370
"Power in the Blood" itself is—

841
00:46:01.370 --> 00:46:04.690
has some very, very strong words
about contemporary issues:

842
00:46:04.690 --> 00:46:07.610
GMOs and fracking and war.

843
00:46:07.610 --> 00:46:09.680
And it was actually a song

844
00:46:10.290 --> 00:46:13.990
written and originally recorded
by a group called Alabama 3,

845
00:46:13.990 --> 00:46:15.640
who you might know for the theme song

846
00:46:15.640 --> 00:46:16.700
from The Sopranos:

847
00:46:16.700 --> 00:46:17.720
"Woke up this morning,

848
00:46:17.720 --> 00:46:19.120
got myself a gun."

849
00:46:19.120 --> 00:46:20.190
And it was saying,

850
00:46:20.190 --> 00:46:21.590
"And when that call it comes,

851
00:46:21.590 --> 00:46:22.810
I will be ready for war."

852
00:46:22.810 --> 00:46:23.830
So they’re friends of mine. I said,

853
00:46:23.830 --> 00:46:25.190
"This would make a great peace song."

854
00:46:25.190 --> 00:46:27.560
So I changed the words, updated it.

855
00:46:27.560 --> 00:46:31.420
And I said, "And when that call it
comes, I will say no, no, no to war."

856
00:46:31.420 --> 00:46:35.590
Another song on the album

857
00:46:35.590 --> 00:46:37.110
is called "Carry It On.

858
00:46:37.110 --> 00:46:38.510
" It’s super positive.

859
00:46:38.510 --> 00:46:39.920
It’s about contemporary stuff.

860
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:41.380
It says, "Hold your head up.

861
00:46:41.380 --> 00:46:42.590
Lift the top of your mind.

862
00:46:42.590 --> 00:46:43.980
Put your eyes on the Earth.

863
00:46:43.980 --> 00:46:45.820
Lift your heart to your own home planet.

864
00:46:45.820 --> 00:46:47.820
What do you see? What is your attitude?

865
00:46:47.820 --> 00:46:49.700
Are you here to improve or damn it?

866
00:46:49.700 --> 00:46:50.860
Look right now and you will see,

867
00:46:50.860 --> 00:46:53.570
we’re only here by the skin
of our teeth as it is,

868
00:46:53.570 --> 00:46:55.940
so take heart and take care
of your link with Life.

869
00:46:55.940 --> 00:46:58.160
It ain’t money
that makes the world go round.

870
00:46:58.160 --> 00:47:00.300
That’s only temporary confusion.

871
00:47:00.300 --> 00:47:02.530
It ain’t governments
that make the people strong.

872
00:47:02.530 --> 00:47:03.780
It’s the opposite illusion.

873
00:47:03.780 --> 00:47:05.130
Look right now and you will see,

874
00:47:05.130 --> 00:47:07.580
they’re only here by the skin
of our teeth as it is,

875
00:47:07.580 --> 00:47:10.790
so take heart and take care
of your link with, Life is beautiful,

876
00:47:10.790 --> 00:47:13.940
if you got the sense to take care
of your source of perfection.

877
00:47:13.940 --> 00:47:17.880
Mother Nature, she’s the daughter
of God and the source of all protection.

878
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:20.970
Look right now and you will see
she’s only here by the skin of her teeth

879
00:47:20.970 --> 00:47:24.910
as it is, so take heart
and take care of your link with Life.

880
00:47:24.910 --> 00:47:26.220
And carry it on.

881
00:47:26.220 --> 00:47:27.510
And keep playing.

882
00:47:27.510 --> 00:47:28.770
And keep praying.

883
00:47:28.770 --> 00:47:30.100
And carry it on."

884
00:47:30.630 --> 00:47:31.750
So this is an album

885
00:47:31.750 --> 00:47:33.760
of contemporary issues,

886
00:47:33.760 --> 00:47:36.460
involving some updated songs,
some new songs,

887
00:47:36.460 --> 00:47:38.840
some songs by me and some songs
by other people.

888
00:47:39.610 --> 00:47:42.860
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well,
since your last album, the music world

889
00:47:42.860 --> 00:47:44.450
has been changing quite a bit.

890
00:47:44.450 --> 00:47:48.600
Could you talk—I’m wondering your sense
of how music has been changing,

891
00:47:48.600 --> 00:47:50.340
the production of albums.

892
00:47:50.340 --> 00:47:52.670
And, you know, now with Taylor Swift

893
00:47:52.670 --> 00:47:56.180
and Beyoncé
becoming the big names these days,

894
00:47:56.180 --> 00:47:58.990
what’s happened to the music world?
BUFFY SAINTE-MARIE: I don’t know.

895
00:47:58.990 --> 00:48:01.350
I don’t think the music industry
changes a whole lot.

896
00:48:01.350 --> 00:48:04.130
Stars may rotate, but it’s—

897
00:48:04.130 --> 00:48:07.710
there’s an awful lot
of corporate push between some people

898
00:48:07.710 --> 00:48:09.050
and not other people.

899
00:48:09.050 --> 00:48:13.210
I think there’s always an undercurrent
of artists who are really truly unique,

900
00:48:13.210 --> 00:48:14.530
and there’s only—you know,

901
00:48:14.530 --> 00:48:18.100
and 80 percent of people who are
following whatever’s hot at the moment.

902
00:48:18.100 --> 00:48:21.100
But I think writers
continue to write,

903
00:48:23.080 --> 00:48:26.700
sometimes addressing contemporary issues
and sometimes not.

904
00:48:27.450 --> 00:48:31.600
I just think the whole world
in general has come a long way

905
00:48:31.600 --> 00:48:33.430
since I saw you last,

906
00:48:34.220 --> 00:48:37.940
in that I think the general population
is more awake now.

907
00:48:37.940 --> 00:48:40.490
There are a lot more people
who are afraid right now,

908
00:48:40.490 --> 00:48:42.790
but it’s because they’ve opened
their eyes, you know,

909
00:48:42.790 --> 00:48:45.320
thanks to a lot of people
like yourselves.

910
00:48:45.320 --> 00:48:48.070
People are acknowledging
what the issues are.

911
00:48:48.070 --> 00:48:51.980
But still, you know, as in the case
of "Universal Soldier," still,

912
00:48:51.980 --> 00:48:54.930
if you look at our world today,

913
00:48:54.930 --> 00:48:57.910
we have five heavily funded colleges
of war,

914
00:48:57.910 --> 00:49:01.570
and we don’t have one such serious,

915
00:49:01.570 --> 00:49:07.070
properly funded college that teaches
alternative conflict resolution.

916
00:49:07.070 --> 00:49:09.220
I mean, in India, people made changes

917
00:49:09.220 --> 00:49:13.170
because Gandhi taught them
about alternative conflict resolution.

918
00:49:13.170 --> 00:49:16.570
There are a lot of things that people
ought to be learning right now,

919
00:49:16.570 --> 00:49:17.840
because people are awake,

920
00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:20.610
but they don’t have the tools,
the true tools,

921
00:49:20.610 --> 00:49:22.360
for making change right now.

922
00:49:22.360 --> 00:49:24.510
And I am always telling people,

923
00:49:25.430 --> 00:49:27.770
don’t put yourself
in the position of suicide

924
00:49:27.770 --> 00:49:31.380
by going up against somebody
who’s going to outgun you,

925
00:49:31.380 --> 00:49:34.090
whether it’s an army, a security force,

926
00:49:34.090 --> 00:49:35.580
a police force.

927
00:49:35.580 --> 00:49:37.940
We have to learn how to do things
in a different way,

928
00:49:37.940 --> 00:49:42.400
in order that we’re not just killing
ourselves while we try to make change.

929
00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:46.290
AMY GOODMAN: I want to play something
from the new album, Power in the Blood.

930
00:49:46.290 --> 00:49:50.600
This is your song,
Buffy Sainte-Marie, "It’s My Way."

931
00:49:56.900 --> 00:50:00.890
BUFFY SAINTE-MARIE: I’m cutting
my own way thru my own day

932
00:50:01.770 --> 00:50:05.620
and all I dare say is it’s my own

933
00:50:05.620 --> 00:50:14.300
I got my own seeds I got my own weeds

934
00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:18.400
I got my own harvest that I’ve sown

935
00:50:18.400 --> 00:50:27.440
Now I can tell you things I’ve done

936
00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:32.610
and I can sing you songs I’ve sung

937
00:50:32.610 --> 00:50:33.990
But there’s one thing I can’t give

938
00:50:33.990 --> 00:50:40.830
for I and I alone can live

939
00:50:40.830 --> 00:50:46.320
the years I’ve known
and the life I’ve grown

940
00:50:47.320 --> 00:50:51.670
I got a way
I’m going and it’s my way

941
00:50:54.210 --> 00:50:57.540
AMY GOODMAN: "It’s My Way,"
from Power in the Blood,

942
00:50:57.540 --> 00:50:59.170
Buffy Sainte-Marie’s new song.

943
00:50:59.170 --> 00:51:03.970
Talk about using a song
you recorded 50 years ago

944
00:51:03.970 --> 00:51:06.370
and incorporating it into this new song.

945
00:51:07.030 --> 00:51:08.960
BUFFY SAINTE-MARIE: Well, it’s a song
that we were doing on the road

946
00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:10.260
all the time anyway,

947
00:51:10.260 --> 00:51:13.510
and I decided to re-record it.

948
00:51:13.510 --> 00:51:16.570
Really, that song
is about self-identity.

949
00:51:16.570 --> 00:51:18.460
And although I’m talking about myself,

950
00:51:18.460 --> 00:51:21.420
I’m really hoping
to encourage the self-identity

951
00:51:21.420 --> 00:51:25.190
of people in the audience
to explore their own uniqueness.

952
00:51:25.190 --> 00:51:27.640
And there just doesn’t seem
to be very much

953
00:51:27.640 --> 00:51:31.620
that encourages
a person’s continual growth,

954
00:51:31.620 --> 00:51:34.590
continual exploration
of their own world.

955
00:51:34.590 --> 00:51:37.220
So really it’s encouraging
other people’s uniqueness.

956
00:51:37.220 --> 00:51:39.090
I mean, that’s what we really need.

957
00:51:39.090 --> 00:51:42.050
And yet I think there’s
so little encouragement

958
00:51:42.050 --> 00:51:45.980
given
to what I’ll call positive mutation.

959
00:51:45.980 --> 00:51:50.010
And I think, really, every single person
is ripening all the time.

960
00:51:50.010 --> 00:51:51.520
I mean, you and me,

961
00:51:51.520 --> 00:51:53.440
the guys we’re not so sure about,

962
00:51:53.440 --> 00:51:56.290
I think everybody
is ripening just little by little.

963
00:51:56.290 --> 00:51:57.980
And when I look back 50 years,

964
00:51:57.980 --> 00:51:59.840
we’ve made a lot of great changes.

965
00:51:59.840 --> 00:52:02.220
A lot of things
are really good right now.

966
00:52:02.220 --> 00:52:05.920
But you’re always going
to have racketeers at any—you know,

967
00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:08.690
racketeers have been
going on since before the Old Testament.

968
00:52:08.690 --> 00:52:11.110
But at the same time, there have always
been people like Jesus.

969
00:52:11.110 --> 00:52:12.590
There have been people like Gandhi.

970
00:52:12.590 --> 00:52:14.560
There have been people
like Martin Luther King.

971
00:52:14.560 --> 00:52:17.680
There are people
out in the audience right now who have—

972
00:52:18.550 --> 00:52:20.070
who are the hope of the future.

973
00:52:20.070 --> 00:52:21.590
We’re not hearing about them yet.

974
00:52:21.590 --> 00:52:24.100
But really, I think all of us,
that’s the one thing we can do:

975
00:52:24.100 --> 00:52:26.020
We can encourage it in ourselves.

976
00:52:26.020 --> 00:52:27.030
New thinking.

977
00:52:27.030 --> 00:52:29.090
AMY GOODMAN: Speaking
of what can be heard

978
00:52:29.090 --> 00:52:33.310
and what can’t be heard, can you talk
about being blacklisted during the '60s?

979
00:52:33.310 --> 00:52:36.960
I mean, on Monday, we're going
to be playing this extraordinary panel

980
00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:40.160
that Juan moderated in Washington, D.C.,

981
00:52:40.160 --> 00:52:42.010
with Ron Dellums,

982
00:52:42.010 --> 00:52:45.660
who was head of the House Armed Services
Committee, Oakland congressmember,

983
00:52:45.660 --> 00:52:46.840
former Oakland congressmember;

984
00:52:46.840 --> 00:52:48.610
Pat Schroeder, one of the youngest women

985
00:52:48.610 --> 00:52:49.660
to be elected to Congress,

986
00:52:49.660 --> 00:52:51.050
from Colorado;

987
00:52:52.440 --> 00:52:54.060
and Tom Hayden;

988
00:52:54.620 --> 00:52:55.680
Wayne Smith,

989
00:52:55.680 --> 00:52:57.150
who was a Vietnam medic.

990
00:52:57.150 --> 00:52:59.760
So, it’s the 40th anniversary
of the end of the war,

991
00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:03.240
50th anniversary
of the U.S. invading South Vietnam.

992
00:53:03.240 --> 00:53:04.750
When you were singing about it,

993
00:53:04.750 --> 00:53:06.020
what happened?

994
00:53:06.840 --> 00:53:10.450
Why was it difficult to hear your songs?

995
00:53:11.150 --> 00:53:12.880
BUFFY SAINTE-MARIE: Well,
I didn’t know at the time,

996
00:53:12.880 --> 00:53:18.000
but I found out 20 years later that
apparently the Johnson administration,

997
00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:21.210
the Nixon administration, apparently,

998
00:53:22.540 --> 00:53:27.280
they drowned my career,
the career of Eartha Kitt.

999
00:53:28.120 --> 00:53:30.200
Taj Mahal had problems.

1000
00:53:30.200 --> 00:53:33.690
And I was told by a radio broadcaster
live on the air

1001
00:53:33.690 --> 00:53:34.890
at the beginning of an interview—

1002
00:53:34.890 --> 00:53:36.420
this was in the ’80s.

1003
00:53:36.420 --> 00:53:39.390
I mean, Lyndon Johnson was
and Richard Nixon were gone.

1004
00:53:39.390 --> 00:53:43.690
A Democratic administration
and a Republican administration

1005
00:53:43.690 --> 00:53:48.330
apparently had drowned a lot of careers
for being outspoken.

1006
00:53:48.330 --> 00:53:51.190
And I don’t think it was just
that I had written "Universal Soldier"

1007
00:53:51.190 --> 00:53:53.810
and "Now That the Buffalo’s Gone."

1008
00:53:53.810 --> 00:53:55.040
I think it was because I had gotten

1009
00:53:55.040 --> 00:53:58.140
famous and was shooting my mouth off
on The Tonight Show.

1010
00:53:58.140 --> 00:54:00.700
It was because I had magazine covers.

1011
00:54:00.700 --> 00:54:05.710
I mean, Billboard magazine
had named me Best New Artist on the year

1012
00:54:05.710 --> 00:54:07.350
that The Beatles came to America.

1013
00:54:07.350 --> 00:54:09.530
So there was—I had a lot going on.

1014
00:54:09.530 --> 00:54:11.310
But I did. I spoke out.

1015
00:54:11.310 --> 00:54:13.900
And when "Until It’s Time
for You to Go,"

1016
00:54:13.900 --> 00:54:15.810
which is just a pop love song,

1017
00:54:15.810 --> 00:54:18.740
when it was being recorded
by, as you mentioned, Elvis Presley

1018
00:54:18.740 --> 00:54:19.930
and everybody,

1019
00:54:19.930 --> 00:54:22.200
I was getting big-time publicity,

1020
00:54:22.200 --> 00:54:24.970
and I was talking about the fact
that there was a war in Vietnam.

1021
00:54:24.970 --> 00:54:27.580
And later on,
during the Nixon administration,

1022
00:54:27.580 --> 00:54:30.540
I was talking about what was going on
at Wounded Knee, South Dakota,

1023
00:54:30.540 --> 00:54:32.520
and in the American Indian movement.

1024
00:54:32.520 --> 00:54:34.190
So sometimes people will ask me,

1025
00:54:34.190 --> 00:54:37.740
they say, "Well, doesn’t that make
you hate the U.S. government?"

1026
00:54:37.740 --> 00:54:40.500
And it doesn’t. It has nothing
to do with the U.S. government.

1027
00:54:40.500 --> 00:54:44.470
It’s not as though an act
of Congress is passed and Eartha Kitt

1028
00:54:44.470 --> 00:54:48.400
and Buffy Sainte-Marie get wiped
out of airplay forever and ever.

1029
00:54:48.400 --> 00:54:51.770
No. It’s a few guys
in the administration

1030
00:54:51.770 --> 00:54:54.230
who make nasty phone calls
from the back room.

1031
00:54:54.230 --> 00:54:55.270
It’s networking.

1032
00:54:55.270 --> 00:54:57.650
It’s personal phone calls to the media.

1033
00:54:57.650 --> 00:55:01.410
I mean, I was never allowed
to play in Indian country, you know,

1034
00:55:01.410 --> 00:55:03.040
because who owned the newspapers?

1035
00:55:03.040 --> 00:55:04.750
Who owned the theaters?

1036
00:55:04.750 --> 00:55:06.430
Who owned TV and radio?

1037
00:55:06.430 --> 00:55:09.550
The same guys
who owned the big resource companies

1038
00:55:09.550 --> 00:55:13.510
who were exploiting
Native American people and lands.

1039
00:55:13.510 --> 00:55:19.330
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And yet,
thanks to PBS and Sesame Street,

1040
00:55:19.330 --> 00:55:21.810
at the same time
that some were trying to silence you,

1041
00:55:21.810 --> 00:55:25.950
they gave you the opportunity
to speak to a whole generation of folks.

1042
00:55:25.950 --> 00:55:30.470
I think we may actually have a clip
of when you were on Sesame Street.

1043
00:55:30.470 --> 00:55:33.060
You were a regular there
from '76 to ’81,

1044
00:55:33.060 --> 00:55:36.270
including a week of shows
from your home in Hawaii.

1045
00:55:36.270 --> 00:55:38.960
This is a clip
from one of those episodes,

1046
00:55:38.960 --> 00:55:40.070
when you sing,

1047
00:55:40.070 --> 00:55:41.590
"I'm an Indian Wherever I Go."

1048
00:55:43.860 --> 00:55:45.000
BUFFY SAINTE-MARIE: Well, first there

1049
00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:46.970
was the Hawaiian land,

1050
00:55:47.730 --> 00:55:49.940
the Big Blue Ocean and the sunny sand.

1051
00:55:49.940 --> 00:55:55.550
And then in boats that they made by hand
came the Hawaiians.

1052
00:55:57.600 --> 00:55:59.300
And they brought the aloha.

1053
00:56:02.170 --> 00:56:04.440
I’m an Indian wherever I go,

1054
00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:08.310
Hawaiian sun or Canada snow.

1055
00:56:08.310 --> 00:56:10.190
And when I’m in Hawai’ine,

1056
00:56:10.190 --> 00:56:11.210
I’m still in Indian.

1057
00:56:11.210 --> 00:56:14.670
Eya Eya.

1058
00:56:14.670 --> 00:56:17.660
In Hawaii, the Hawaiians
are the kings and queens,

1059
00:56:17.660 --> 00:56:19.850
or anyway, that’s what I’ll sing.

1060
00:56:20.850 --> 00:56:22.810
They welcome everybody so fine,

1061
00:56:22.810 --> 00:56:24.180
and I respect them.

1062
00:56:24.180 --> 00:56:25.230
Eya Eya.

1063
00:56:25.230 --> 00:56:29.020
Now you got one grandmother
from the coast of Asia

1064
00:56:29.020 --> 00:56:31.220
and another from a South Seas bay.

1065
00:56:31.860 --> 00:56:35.090
You got one grandfather from right here

1066
00:56:35.090 --> 00:56:39.290
and another from the U.S.A.
Hey, hey, hey.

1067
00:56:39.290 --> 00:56:41.390
That’s the way in Hawai’ine

1068
00:56:41.390 --> 00:56:44.680
Everybody come, and some folks stay.

1069
00:56:44.680 --> 00:56:50.550
Bring a little aloha to Hawaii.

1070
00:56:50.550 --> 00:56:52.610
I’m an Indian wherever I go,

1071
00:56:52.610 --> 00:56:56.600
Hawaiian sun or Canada snow.

1072
00:56:56.600 --> 00:56:58.540
And when I’m in Hawai’ine,

1073
00:56:58.540 --> 00:56:59.750
I’m still in Indian.

1074
00:56:59.750 --> 00:57:01.480
Eya Eya.

1075
00:57:01.480 --> 00:57:03.790
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: That was Buffy
Sainte-Marie singing "I’m an Indian

1076
00:57:03.790 --> 00:57:05.800
Wherever I Go" on Sesame Street.

1077
00:57:05.800 --> 00:57:10.460
The impact that your performances there,
your appearances there,

1078
00:57:10.460 --> 00:57:13.100
had in terms of young people in America,

1079
00:57:13.100 --> 00:57:15.080
and in the minute that we have left,

1080
00:57:15.080 --> 00:57:16.910
where you’re going
to be performing next?

1081
00:57:16.910 --> 00:57:20.000
BUFFY SAINTE-MARIE: Well, we’ve been on—
this is the—we have one more concert

1082
00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:21.200
in Schenectady, New York.

1083
00:57:21.200 --> 00:57:23.530
This is the very end
of a month-long tour.

1084
00:57:23.530 --> 00:57:25.680
Last month we went all the way
around the world.

1085
00:57:25.680 --> 00:57:27.580
And next month
we’re going across Canada.

1086
00:57:29.160 --> 00:57:31.460
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And the impact
of Sesame Street in terms of—

1087
00:57:31.460 --> 00:57:34.110
BUFFY SAINTE-MARIE: Well, Sesame Street
was a place that I could go

1088
00:57:34.110 --> 00:57:37.230
and take the same positive message
about Native American people

1089
00:57:37.800 --> 00:57:40.930
to 72 countries
of the world three times a day.

1090
00:57:40.930 --> 00:57:42.670
They never stereotyped me.

1091
00:57:42.670 --> 00:57:44.550
We did things
about Native American culture.

1092
00:57:44.550 --> 00:57:49.090
We also did things on breast feeding,
on sibling rivalry, on raising kids—

1093
00:57:49.090 --> 00:57:50.180
AMY GOODMAN: You had your son Cody on.

1094
00:57:50.180 --> 00:57:51.880
BUFFY SAINTE-MARIE: Yes, my son Cody
was on, yeah.

1095
00:57:51.880 --> 00:57:54.030
He’s a big grown-up guy now.

1096
00:57:56.080 --> 00:57:57.180
AMY GOODMAN: So,

1097
00:57:57.180 --> 00:57:59.380
what do you hope to be doing now,

1098
00:57:59.380 --> 00:58:02.750
as you go on this tour,
the message you’re spreading?

1099
00:58:02.750 --> 00:58:04.540
You were fighting the Vietnam War.

1100
00:58:04.540 --> 00:58:05.670
You were blacklisted.

1101
00:58:05.670 --> 00:58:07.420
We’re now in the midst of—

1102
00:58:07.420 --> 00:58:09.790
well, I don’t know
if we can count the number of wars

1103
00:58:09.790 --> 00:58:11.740
we’re involved with in the Middle East.

1104
00:58:11.740 --> 00:58:12.990
BUFFY SAINTE-MARIE: Yeah.

1105
00:58:13.500 --> 00:58:17.030
I really am on a campaign
to appreciate the good things

1106
00:58:17.030 --> 00:58:18.380
that we have going on right now,

1107
00:58:18.380 --> 00:58:19.920
which is really being awake.

1108
00:58:20.770 --> 00:58:25.620
I have been to the Alberta tar sands,
where fracking—

1109
00:58:25.620 --> 00:58:27.030
you know, it’s fracking central.

1110
00:58:27.030 --> 00:58:29.520
I’ve seen it. It’s much worse
than I could have imagined.

1111
00:58:30.250 --> 00:58:31.820
AMY GOODMAN: We have five seconds.
BUFFY SAINTE-MARIE: I live in Hawaii.

1112
00:58:31.820 --> 00:58:33.190
GMO is everywhere.

1113
00:58:33.190 --> 00:58:35.930
They’re spreading pesticides,
spraying them all over us,

1114
00:58:35.930 --> 00:58:37.350
and it’s very, very serious.

1115
00:58:37.350 --> 00:58:39.470
So, thank you, people, for being awake.

1116
00:58:39.470 --> 00:58:40.890
Please stay positive.

1117
00:58:40.890 --> 00:58:44.190
Please put down violence. Step up.

1118
00:58:44.190 --> 00:58:46.280
Learn alternative conflict resolution.

1119
00:58:46.280 --> 00:58:48.880
AMY GOODMAN: Buffy Sainte-Marie, thanks
so much for being with us,

1120
00:58:48.880 --> 00:58:55.510
Canadian First Nations singer,
songwriter and activist.