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From Pacifica, this is Democracy Now!

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When individuals
say that we should have a religious test

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and that only Christians—proven
Christians—should be admitted,

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that’s offensive and contrary
to American values.

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I cannot think of a more—

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more potent recruitment tool for ISIL

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than some of the rhetoric
that’s been coming out of here

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during the course of this debate.

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As President Obama criticizes Republican
efforts to reject Syrian refugees

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in the wake of the Paris attacks,

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we’ll speak with Peter Bouckaert,

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Human Rights Watch’s emergencies
director,

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just back from months
in the Balkans and Greece

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speaking with refugees escaping the wars
in Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq,

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then to Congresswoman Barbara Lee
of California.

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September 11th changed the world.

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Our deepest fears now haunt us.

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Yet I am convinced that military action
will not prevent further acts

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of international terrorism
against the United States.

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That was 14 years ago,

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when Congresswoman Barbara Lee

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stood alone voting against
the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan.

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Now she’s calling on Congress to repeal
the 2001 and '02 authorizations

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for military force,

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saying they've been used as blank checks
for endless war.

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She’ll join us from Washington.

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Then to Paris.

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Climate activists are preparing
for a massive march

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ahead of the U.N. climate talks.

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Will authorities allow it to happen?

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All that and more, coming up.

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Welcome to Democracy Now!,
democracynow.org,

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The War and Peace Report.

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I’m Amy Goodman.

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In France,
at least seven people have been detained

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and two have been killed
after a series of gun battles

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and a police raid on an apartment
in a northern suburb of Paris.

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Authorities said the operation targeted
a Belgian man accused of masterminding

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the Paris attacks
that killed 129 people Friday.

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Abdelhamid Abaaoud was initially said
to be in Syria.

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Early this morning, French police
stormed an apartment in Saint-Denis,

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where a woman reportedly killed herself
by detonating an explosive vest.

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A second suspect was killed,
reportedly from gunfire and a grenade.

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At the time of this broadcast,

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authorities say it’s unclear
whether Abaaoud was in the apartment.

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French Interior Minister Bernard
Cazeneuve discussed the operation.

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Bernard Cazeneuve: "Since 4:00
this morning,

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French special forces police

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have carried out an operation
to neutralize terrorists.

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Seven people were arrested.

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Two people have died,
including a woman, by explosives."

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Five police officers were wounded

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and a police dog was killed
in the hours-long operation.

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Meanwhile, authorities in Belgium
have charged two men

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with assisting Salah Abdeslam,

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a second fugitive suspect
in the Paris attacks,

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by driving him to Brussels.

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Abdeslam’s family has called
for him to turn himself in.

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Amid security fears Tuesday,
authorities in Hanover, Germany,

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abruptly canceled a soccer match

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following a "concrete tip"
about a planned bomb attack.

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Two Air France flights bound for Paris

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from the United States were diverted
over reports of bomb threats.

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France, Russia and the United States
have launched fresh airstrikes

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against the Islamic State in Syria.

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This comes as a U.S.-based human rights
group accused Russia

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of bombing at least 10
medical facilities in Syria last month.

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Physicians for Human Rights
said it chronicled 16 attacks

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total on Syrian medical establishments
in October alone,

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the highest tally
in the conflict to date.

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Friday’s deadly attacks
in Paris have set off a storm of calls

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to close borders
and reject refugees fleeing Syria.

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In the United States,

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House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate
Majority Leader Mitch McConnell

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have called for a "pause"
in the U.S. program

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accepting Syrian refugees,

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and governors of at least 27 U.S. states

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have said
they will not accept the refugees.

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The White House held a conference phone
call with 34 governors Tuesday.

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President Obama said attempts
to block refugees are "offensive

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and contrary to American values."

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President Obama: "We’re open
to hearing actual ideas,

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but that’s not really
what’s been going on in this debate.

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When candidates say we
wouldn’t admit three-year-old orphans,

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that’s political posturing.

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When individuals
say that we should have a religious test

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and that only Christians—proven
Christians—should be admitted,

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that’s offensive and contrary
to American values."

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We’ll have more on Syrian refugees

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with Peter Bouckaert
of Human Rights Watch

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and California Congressmember
Barbara Lee after headlines.

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It remains unclear
exactly how the upheaval in Paris

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will impact the United Nations
climate change summit,

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which opens in Paris November 30.

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Environmentalists from around the world
have planned a massive march

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with 200,000 people
expected the day before talks begin.

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Ahead of the summit, the U.S. Senate

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voted Tuesday to block
President Obama’s new regulations

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to cut carbon emissions
from coal-fired power plants.

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This all comes after last month
shattered records,

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becoming by far the warmest
October ever recorded worldwide.

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We’ll have more on the Paris climate
talks and the outlook for protests

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later in the broadcast.

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In Nigeria, at least 32 people
have been killed in a suicide

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bombing at a crowded market
in the northeastern city of Yola.

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It’s the latest in a series

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of deadly attacks attributed
to the militant group Boko Haram.

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The attack comes just days after
Nigerian President Muhammadu Buhari

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visited the area and deemed Boko Haram
"very close to defeat."

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The Obama administration has announced

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approval of a $1.29 billion arms sale
to Saudi Arabia,

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despite reports
of possible war crimes in Yemen.

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The State Department approved the sale
of tens of thousands of bombs,

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as well as munitions and other weaponry,
produced by Boeing and Raytheon.

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The weapons replenish stocks
used by Saudi Arabia

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in the U.S.-backed bombing campaign
in Yemen,

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where Amnesty International has warned

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of apparent war crimes
by the Saudi-led coalition.

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Meanwhile, executions in Saudi Arabia
have reached a 20-year high,

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with more than 150 people
executed this year.

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In the United States, a new report
reveals at least 100,000 women

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in the state of Texas have attempted
to self-induce an abortion.

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The groundbreaking study
by the Texas Policy Evaluation Project

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comes as the Supreme Court

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has agreed to hear a challenge
to a sweeping Texas anti-choice law.

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Since the law passed in 2013,

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about half of the state’s 41 abortion
clinics have closed.

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The study found
as many as 240,000 Texas women

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have tried to end a pregnancy
without medical assistance,

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citing restrictions
including a lack of funds

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to travel to a clinic or the fact
their local clinic had shut down.

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In Kentucky, the state’s last remaining
full-time abortion clinic

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has been vandalized for the second time
in less than a month.

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Last week, a man threw a rock
through the glass door

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of EMW Women’s Surgical Center
in Louisville, just two weeks

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after another man hurled himself
into the clinic’s window, shattering it.

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The clinic’s executive director
told Insider Louisville:

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"We’re not angry, we’re not afraid,

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we’re just really sad
that the mentality out there

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isn’t more understanding
and compassionate for women."

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A Spanish judge has issued

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an arrest warrant for Israeli Prime
Minister Benjamin Netanyahu

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and seven other former
and current Israeli officials

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over the deadly 2010 Israeli raid
on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla.

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Nine people were killed
when Israeli commandos

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stormed the Mavi Marmara
in international waters;

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a 10th died after four years in a coma.

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The case
against Israeli officials in Spain

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emerged after Spanish activists on board
the flotilla sued Netanyahu.

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The judge’s move
means Netanyahu could be detained

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and questioned
if he steps foot in Spain.

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President Obama faced protests
over the role of the U.S. military

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as he arrived in the Philippines
for the APEC summit.

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His visit comes
as the Philippines

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Supreme Court
considers a constitutional challenge

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to a military deal
that would grant U.S. troops

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broad access
to military bases in the Philippines.

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Diego Torres was among the activists
who gathered to oppose Obama’s arrival

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in Manila.

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Diego Torres: "Today, Obama
will arrive in the Philippines,

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and this is our welcome for him—

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a protest that rejects his presence

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because we do not want the leader
of the United States,

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the chief architect

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of aggression and cruelty
toward many nations around the world,

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to land in the Philippines."

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The Norwegian oil company Statoil

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has announced it’s ending
its Arctic oil drilling program,

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even though its stakes
in the Arctic don’t expire until 2020.

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The move comes after Shell

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walked away from its oil drilling
program in the Arctic

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after spending $7 billion on it.

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Republican presidential candidate
Ben Carson’s own advisers

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have acknowledged he is struggling
to comprehend foreign policy.

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Carson, who is the leading Republican
candidate in some polls,

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has blundered on the topic
of foreign policy,

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including wrongly claiming China

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is involved militarily in Syria.

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Speaking to The New York

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Times, a top Carson adviser said,

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"Nobody has been able to sit down with

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[Carson] and have him get one iota

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of intelligent information
about the Middle East."

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Meanwhile, Louisiana Governor Bobby

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Jindal has ended his campaign

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for the Republican
presidential nomination.

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After failing to gain much traction,

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Jindal said Tuesday
it was not his time.

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Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal: "So,
look, we announced, obviously,

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today we are suspending
the presidential campaign.

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Look, I am honored
to have had the chance

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to run for president
of the United States.

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My parents came here 45 years ago
in search of freedom and opportunity.

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Never in a million years would they
have imagined that I could be governor,

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much less run for president.

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This wasn’t our time."
And those are some of the headlines

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this is Democracy Now, Democracynow.org,
the War and Peace Report.

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I’m Amy Goodman.

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JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Friday’s deadly attacks
in Paris have set off a storm of calls

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to close borders
and reject refugees fleeing Syria,

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where over 4 million people
have already fled the war-torn country.

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Less than 24 hours
after the Paris attacks,

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Poland’s incoming
European affairs minister

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said Poland would pull back
from a European Union-wide commitment

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to relocate refugees.

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The anti-refugee sentiment was quickly
echoed by other right-wing leaders

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across Europe.

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In France, Marine Le Pen,
the head of the National Front party,

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demanded a, quote, "immediate halt
of all intake of migrants in France."

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In the Netherlands, Geert Wilders,

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the head of the People’s Party
for Freedom and Democracy,

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called on the country’s prime minister
to close the borders entirely.

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AMY GOODMAN: Meanwhile
in the United States,

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House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate
Majority Leader Mitch McConnell

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have called for a pause in the U.S.
program accepting Syrian refugees,

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and governors of at least 27 U.S. states

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have said
they will not accept Syrian refugees.

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A Syrian passport
which appears to be fake

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was found near the body
of one of the Paris attackers,

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whose fingerprints matched someone

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who passed through Greece
and the Balkans.

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But all the attackers identified so far
are European nationals.

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JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Speaking
in the Philippines, President Obama

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said any attempts
to block entry of Syrian refugees

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to the United States is,

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quote, "offensive
and contrary to American values."

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PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: We are not well
served when,

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in response to a terrorist attack,

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we descend into fear and panic.

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We don’t make good decisions

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if it’s based on hysteria
or an exaggeration of risks.

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And I think the refugee debate
is an example of us

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not being well served
by some of the commentary

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that’s been taking place by officials
back home and in the media. ...

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We’re welcome—

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we’re open to hearing actual ideas,

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but that’s not really
what’s been going on in this debate.

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When candidates say we
wouldn’t admit three-year-old orphans,

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that’s political posturing.

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00:13:36.650 --> 00:13:40.980
When individuals
say that we should have a religious test

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00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:46.090
and that only Christians—proven
Christians—should be admitted,

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that’s offensive and contrary
to American values.

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I cannot think of a more—

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more potent recruitment tool for ISIL

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than some of the rhetoric
that’s been coming out of here

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during the course of this debate.

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AMY GOODMAN: That’s President Obama
speaking in the Philippines.

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For more,
we’re joined by Peter Bouckaert.

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He is Human Rights Watch’s emergencies
director,

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00:14:14.040 --> 00:14:16.890
just back from months
in the Balkans and Greece

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speaking to refugees coming mostly
from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq.

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Posting messages
on Twitter, Peter Bouckaert has helped

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expose the realities of life
for refugees fleeing violence at home,

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was one of the first people
to share images of Alan Kurdi,

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the three-year-old Syrian boy

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who drowned off a Turkish beach.

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Peter Bouckaert,
welcome back to Democracy Now!

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PETER BOUCKAERT: Thank you.
AMY GOODMAN: As you come back,

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just in the last two days,

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dealing with the refugees, documenting
what’s happening on the ground,

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your response to what’s being

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said in the United States
about not accepting refugees?

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PETER BOUCKAERT: Well,
it’s both morally reprehensible

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and factually wrong to equate
these people with terrorists.

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They’re actually
fleeing from the terrorists,

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and they’ve faced horrors of war
in Iraq and Syria and Afghanistan.

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Many of them are coming
with their families,

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trying to bring them to safety
and a better future in Europe.

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And they should be welcomed.

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They will contribute to our society,

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and they have a right to asylum.

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They should not be having
to risk their lives

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and face all of this humiliation
on this journey

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just to get what is legally their right.

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JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And could you talk about—

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you’ve interviewed many of the refugees.

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Could you talk
about some of their experiences

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and what they’ve told you
about their fleeing?

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Some of them actually
fled after being subjected to bombings

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from Western powers, as well.

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PETER BOUCKAERT: Yes, many of them
have come directly from Syria.

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They’ve tried to stay in Syria
for as long as possible.

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It’s not like this was
their first choice.

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They really love their country.

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They’ve faced bombing from the West
and from Russia, as well,

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especially by the Assad regime.

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And many of them have lost
family members to those bombings.

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I’ve also met a lot
of young men and women

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who have lost their legs and other limbs
to these bombing raids

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00:16:02.730 --> 00:16:06.920
and who have been carried
this whole journey to safety in Europe.

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AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to comments
made by House Speaker Paul Ryan

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regarding admitting Syrian refugees
here in the United States.

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SPEAKER PAUL RYAN: The national defense
bill that I will sign later today

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requires the president to come up
with a plan for defeating ISIS—

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not just containing, but defeating ISIS.

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A containment plan is not enough.

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That has failed.

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In addition, the majority leader
and our committee chairs

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are developing a plan
to address the Syrian refugee crisis.

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Our nation has always been welcoming,

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but we cannot let terrorists
take advantage of our compassion.

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This is a moment where it’s better
to be safe than to be sorry.

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So we think the prudent,
the responsible thing is to take a pause

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in this particular aspect
of this refugee program,

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in order to verify

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that terrorists are not trying
to infiltrate the refugee population.

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In the end,
the ultimate solution to this crisis

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is a strategy to defeat ISIS.

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All of this rises above politics.

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This is not about politics.

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This is about national security.

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And so,
we will invite all of our colleagues,

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00:17:16.620 --> 00:17:18.300
Republicans and Democrats,

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to work with us quickly to address
the urgent nature of this situation.

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AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk
about what Paul Ryan is calling for?

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PETER BOUCKAERT: Well,
I think it’s absolutely misguided.

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Yes, there is a struggle to defeat ISIS,

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00:17:32.300 --> 00:17:34.290
but that is not
just a military struggle.

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00:17:34.290 --> 00:17:37.740
It’s a struggle for the hearts and minds
of the people of the Middle East.

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00:17:37.740 --> 00:17:39.570
And that struggle for the hearts
and minds

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is actually the most important component
of what we have to accomplish.

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And by shutting the door on the refugees

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00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:50.180
fleeing from ISIS and from the horrors
of the war in Syria,

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00:17:50.180 --> 00:17:53.920
we’re doing no favor in terms of winning
the hearts and minds of these people.

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00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:59.260
The reality is that any Syrian refugee
coming to the United States already

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00:17:59.260 --> 00:18:02.620
goes through four different levels
of security review

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00:18:02.620 --> 00:18:05.180
by different U.S. agencies,

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00:18:05.180 --> 00:18:12.470
so the danger of anybody coming
in under the guise of refugee status

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00:18:12.470 --> 00:18:15.350
and being actually a terrorist
is absolutely minuscule.

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00:18:15.350 --> 00:18:18.260
We admit 70,000 people
already every year,

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00:18:18.260 --> 00:18:20.520
many of them from Iraq and Somalia,

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00:18:20.520 --> 00:18:22.600
and there has not been a single incident

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00:18:22.600 --> 00:18:24.840
of a person
turning out to be a terrorist.

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00:18:24.840 --> 00:18:28.870
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Could you talk about
the reaction in Europe to the refugees,

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00:18:28.870 --> 00:18:34.610
both before the attacks in Paris
and now, subsequently, afterward?

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00:18:34.610 --> 00:18:37.910
PETER BOUCKAERT: Well, I think one
of the reasons why these two crises—

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00:18:37.910 --> 00:18:40.210
the Paris attack and the refugee crisis—

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00:18:40.210 --> 00:18:42.940
have become conflated is because Europe

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00:18:42.940 --> 00:18:45.930
has not felt in charge of this crisis,

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00:18:45.930 --> 00:18:49.920
because they have not had
clear and coherent policies

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00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:51.130
towards these refugees.

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00:18:51.130 --> 00:18:53.530
It has been chaos in Europe.

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00:18:53.530 --> 00:18:57.090
And it’s really important, instead of
shutting the door on these people,

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00:18:57.090 --> 00:18:59.470
that we come up with coherent policies

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00:18:59.470 --> 00:19:04.140
which allow people to claim asylum
in a way which is safe and legal

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00:19:04.140 --> 00:19:05.640
and protects their rights.

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00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:07.470
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Why has it
been so chaotic,

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00:19:07.470 --> 00:19:12.660
given the fact that this has now been
going on for at least a year or more?

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00:19:12.660 --> 00:19:15.670
PETER BOUCKAERT: Well, the reality
is that still on the beaches of Europe,

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00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:19.270
two Alan Kurdis
are still drowning every day.

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00:19:19.270 --> 00:19:22.430
And many of the humanitarian needs
of these desperate people

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00:19:22.430 --> 00:19:25.600
are being met by volunteers
and not by EU institutions,

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00:19:25.600 --> 00:19:28.630
because there are no EU policies
towards these people.

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00:19:28.630 --> 00:19:33.190
The EU cannot agree to a common policy
on how to accommodate these people,

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00:19:33.190 --> 00:19:34.560
and that’s why we have chaos.

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00:19:34.560 --> 00:19:35.620
It’s really important

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00:19:35.620 --> 00:19:38.440
that Europe and the world
takes charge of this crisis,

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00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:40.820
or otherwise the crisis
will take charge of Europe.

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00:19:41.600 --> 00:19:45.170
AMY GOODMAN: Speaking Tuesday,
the Czech president, Milos Zeman,

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00:19:45.170 --> 00:19:47.520
said the young men
fleeing war zones should be,

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00:19:47.520 --> 00:19:50.950
quote, "fighting for their country
against the Islamic State."

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00:19:50.950 --> 00:19:53.430
PRESIDENT MILOS ZEMAN: [translated]

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00:19:53.430 --> 00:20:01.870
The majority of these illegal migrants
are young, well-supported men.

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00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:05.680
And I’m asking why these men

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00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:08.340
are not fighting for the freedom
of their country

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00:20:08.340 --> 00:20:09.950
against the Islamic State.

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00:20:14.550 --> 00:20:18.570
Why are they not working
for their country and its improvement,

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00:20:18.570 --> 00:20:22.790
so that their country overcomes
its current state of underdevelopment?

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00:20:22.790 --> 00:20:25.460
AMY GOODMAN: That’s the Czech president
speaking Tuesday.

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00:20:25.460 --> 00:20:27.290
Peter Bouckaert, your response?

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00:20:27.290 --> 00:20:29.390
PETER BOUCKAERT: Well, a lot
of these men are fleeing because they

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00:20:29.390 --> 00:20:31.420
do not want to fight for Assad.

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00:20:31.420 --> 00:20:34.170
They do not want to be part
of the killing machine.

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00:20:34.170 --> 00:20:36.620
And a lot of Afghans
are fleeing from Iran,

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00:20:36.620 --> 00:20:39.320
because they do not want
to be forced by Iran

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00:20:39.320 --> 00:20:41.470
to go fight for Assad in Syria.

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00:20:41.470 --> 00:20:43.660
I think that’s a noble reason to flee,

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00:20:43.660 --> 00:20:45.770
to not want to be a killer.

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00:20:45.770 --> 00:20:47.910
But it is important, on the other hand,

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00:20:47.910 --> 00:20:49.440
that these people are accommodated,

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00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:51.340
that their children can be educated.

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00:20:51.340 --> 00:20:53.820
There are 400,000 children,

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00:20:53.820 --> 00:20:56.570
Syrian children,
out of school in Turkey alone.

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00:20:57.110 --> 00:20:59.540
If we do not provide them
with an education,

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00:20:59.540 --> 00:21:01.290
there is no future for Syria,

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00:21:01.290 --> 00:21:04.080
because nobody will be able
to run the country in the future.

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00:21:04.080 --> 00:21:06.900
AMY GOODMAN: What is the U.S.’s
responsibility for these refugees,

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00:21:06.900 --> 00:21:08.960
in the original cause?

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00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:12.140
PETER BOUCKAERT: Well, we are faced
with a generational crisis

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00:21:12.140 --> 00:21:13.530
in the Middle East.

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00:21:13.530 --> 00:21:16.740
These conflicts really are a challenge
to our generation.

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00:21:16.740 --> 00:21:18.480
And we need a global response.

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00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:21.590
We all need to do our part,
including the U.S. and Canada

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00:21:21.590 --> 00:21:22.650
and Australia,

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00:21:22.650 --> 00:21:24.160
to accommodate these refugees,

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00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:26.880
to provide them with safe refuge,

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00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:28.650
to help educate their children,

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00:21:28.650 --> 00:21:31.530
and ultimately to help resolve
the conflicts in Syria,

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00:21:31.530 --> 00:21:32.860
Iraq and Afghanistan, because the roots—

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00:21:32.860 --> 00:21:33.950
AMY GOODMAN: How did the crisis
get started?

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00:21:33.950 --> 00:21:36.770
PETER BOUCKAERT: Yes,
it’s absolutely true

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00:21:36.770 --> 00:21:41.260
that Afghanistan was invaded
by the United States in 2001

403
00:21:41.260 --> 00:21:43.520
and Iraq was invaded in 2003.

404
00:21:44.040 --> 00:21:47.080
Many mistakes were made
in terms of the policies adopted.

405
00:21:47.080 --> 00:21:50.680
And so we do also have a moral
responsibility towards these people

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00:21:50.680 --> 00:21:53.820
fleeing the consequences
of our actions, to some degree.

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00:21:53.820 --> 00:21:54.880
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to go to break,

408
00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:58.480
then come back and play a report
by Human Rights Watch,

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00:21:58.480 --> 00:21:59.880
the refugees on the ground.

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00:21:59.880 --> 00:22:04.490
Then Barbara Lee will also be
joining us, Congressmember Barbara Lee.

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00:22:04.490 --> 00:22:07.650
And we’ll go to Paris
to talk with climate activists.

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00:22:07.650 --> 00:22:11.440
Will marches be allowed
after the Paris attacks?

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00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:19.620
Stay with us.

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00:23:19.620 --> 00:23:23.030
AMY GOODMAN: Friday’s deadly attacks
in Paris have set off a storm of calls

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00:23:23.030 --> 00:23:25.530
to close borders
and reject refugees fleeing Syria,

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00:23:25.530 --> 00:23:28.930
where over 4 million people
have already fled the war-torn country.

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00:23:28.930 --> 00:23:31.990
So far this year,
more than 800,000 asylum seekers

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00:23:31.990 --> 00:23:34.580
and refugees
have arrived in Europe by sea.

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00:23:34.580 --> 00:23:37.650
We’re going to turn now to a video
by Human Rights Watch capturing

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00:23:37.650 --> 00:23:39.010
this journey to Europe.

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00:23:39.010 --> 00:23:42.800
The film is narrated by Human Rights
Watch’s Judith Sunderland.

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00:23:45.090 --> 00:23:46.200
GREEK COAST GUARD: Wait on the boat!

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00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:47.360
We’re coming! Wait!

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00:23:52.020 --> 00:23:58.280
Take the baby, please.

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00:23:58.280 --> 00:24:00.810
SYRIAN REFUGEE BOY: [translated]

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00:24:00.810 --> 00:24:03.360
During our ride,
the rubber boat started tipping.

427
00:24:03.360 --> 00:24:04.840
Kids were falling on top of each other,

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00:24:04.840 --> 00:24:07.200
and women were falling
on top of each other.

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00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:08.940
The whole boat filled with water.

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00:24:08.940 --> 00:24:10.250
Then the boat just stopped.

431
00:24:10.250 --> 00:24:12.280
We were whistling and calling for help.

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00:24:12.280 --> 00:24:14.660
We contacted the Greek Coast Guard
via WhatsApp,

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00:24:14.660 --> 00:24:15.930
and they came and saved us.

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00:24:18.800 --> 00:24:20.170
Life isn’t safe anymore.

435
00:24:20.170 --> 00:24:21.700
We can’t live in Syria anymore.

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00:24:32.330 --> 00:24:35.450
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: Over 800,000
asylum seekers

437
00:24:35.450 --> 00:24:38.090
and migrants
reached Europe by sea this year.

438
00:24:39.850 --> 00:24:43.870
More than 200,000 arrived
on the Greek islands in October alone.

439
00:24:48.410 --> 00:24:51.950
Most of them come from countries
where conflict, repression

440
00:24:51.950 --> 00:24:55.030
and fear force people
to flee for their lives.

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00:24:55.030 --> 00:24:59.700
AFGHAN REFUGEE WOMAN: [translated]
The Taliban warned us to leave,

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00:24:59.700 --> 00:25:01.840
or our lives would be in danger.

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00:25:01.840 --> 00:25:03.910
They killed seven of my friends.

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00:25:03.910 --> 00:25:05.650
They mostly targeted women.

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00:25:09.150 --> 00:25:11.140
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: And did they threaten
you personally?

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00:25:11.140 --> 00:25:12.550
They said to you,

447
00:25:12.550 --> 00:25:16.870
"You have to go"?

448
00:25:16.870 --> 00:25:19.040
AFGHAN REFUGEE WOMAN: [translated]
Yes, because I was educating people

449
00:25:19.040 --> 00:25:22.550
about violence against women
in different Afghan provinces.

450
00:25:22.550 --> 00:25:24.130
That’s why I was threatened.

451
00:25:24.130 --> 00:25:28.080
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: Over 3,400 people,
including many children,

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00:25:28.080 --> 00:25:31.770
have died at sea trying
to reach the European Union this year.

453
00:25:33.420 --> 00:25:35.970
Yet despite the risks, they keep coming.

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00:25:35.970 --> 00:25:38.590
SYRIAN REFUGEE MOTHER: [translated]

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00:25:38.590 --> 00:25:41.060
My daughters and I suffered so much.

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00:25:41.060 --> 00:25:43.930
The decision to make
the journey was very difficult.

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00:25:43.930 --> 00:25:45.500
We knew it was a death journey.

458
00:25:45.500 --> 00:25:47.570
We knew our lives were at stake.

459
00:25:47.570 --> 00:25:49.790
But it didn’t matter
if we lived or died.

460
00:25:49.790 --> 00:25:53.900
The risk was better than to continue
living as Syrian refugees in Turkey.

461
00:25:54.680 --> 00:25:55.700
VOLUNTEER 1: Where are you going now?

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00:25:55.700 --> 00:25:57.600
REFUGEE MAN 1: We are going down
to Allemagne

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00:25:57.600 --> 00:25:59.950
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: How many days
since they’ve had their medicine?

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00:26:00.840 --> 00:26:02.460
PETER BOUCKAERT: When did
you leave Deir ez-Zor?

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00:26:02.460 --> 00:26:04.870
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: Human Rights Watch
sent teams of researchers

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00:26:04.870 --> 00:26:06.610
to document the dangerous journeys—

467
00:26:07.670 --> 00:26:09.670
and the hardships upon arrival.

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00:26:09.670 --> 00:26:12.700
REFUGEE MAN 2: And the governments
there said, "Go back to Hungary."

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00:26:12.700 --> 00:26:14.080
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: We spoke to Syrians,

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00:26:14.080 --> 00:26:17.420
Afghans, Iraqis, Eritreans
and Somalis.

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00:26:18.460 --> 00:26:20.460
In story after story,

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00:26:20.460 --> 00:26:24.370
we heard that the only way
out of violence and terror at home

473
00:26:24.370 --> 00:26:27.250
and unbearable conditions
in neighboring countries

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00:26:27.250 --> 00:26:31.280
was to resort to smugglers
and flee through dangerous crossings.

475
00:26:31.280 --> 00:26:38.040
REFUGEE FATHER: [translated]

476
00:26:38.040 --> 00:26:40.610
When we were taken
through the mountains in Iran,

477
00:26:40.610 --> 00:26:43.590
my son fell and fractured his leg,

478
00:26:43.590 --> 00:26:45.650
and my sister fractured her forehead.

479
00:26:46.320 --> 00:26:48.110
We were going through the mountains,

480
00:26:48.110 --> 00:26:50.370
and the smugglers were pushing us.

481
00:26:50.370 --> 00:26:52.850
If we didn’t run,
we would have been shot.

482
00:26:53.370 --> 00:26:56.010
The smugglers forced us onto the boats.

483
00:26:56.010 --> 00:26:57.130
We were scared.

484
00:26:57.130 --> 00:26:58.950
We didn’t want to go on the boats.

485
00:27:02.020 --> 00:27:05.430
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: If there were safe
and legal routes to seek refuge,

486
00:27:05.430 --> 00:27:09.510
far fewer people would be at the mercy
of abusive smugglers.

487
00:27:10.690 --> 00:27:13.540
VOLUNTEER 2: Did you go to any embassy
to apply for asylum?

488
00:27:13.540 --> 00:27:17.690
AFGHAN REFUGEE WOMAN: [translated]
I emailed the Canadian Embassy,

489
00:27:17.690 --> 00:27:19.090
but they didn’t reply.

490
00:27:22.530 --> 00:27:24.410
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: We have witnessed
scenes of chaos

491
00:27:24.410 --> 00:27:26.710
at many EU borders for months now.

492
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:37.570
Daily arrivals of thousands
of people on Greek islands

493
00:27:37.570 --> 00:27:40.160
created an ongoing humanitarian crisis,

494
00:27:41.070 --> 00:27:43.670
hitting those most
vulnerable the hardest.

495
00:27:43.670 --> 00:27:49.800
REFUGEE MOTHER: [translated]

496
00:27:49.800 --> 00:27:52.710
She’s been bedridden for 15 years.

497
00:27:52.710 --> 00:27:54.210
She can’t move her legs,

498
00:27:54.210 --> 00:27:55.670
and she can’t see.

499
00:27:55.670 --> 00:27:58.380
She can’t speak, and she just moans.

500
00:27:58.380 --> 00:28:00.800
We don’t know
where she’ll sleep tonight.

501
00:28:00.800 --> 00:28:01.900
Please, help us.

502
00:28:01.900 --> 00:28:05.110
We can’t stay out here day and night
like the others.

503
00:28:05.110 --> 00:28:06.980
We can’t stay out here with her.

504
00:28:10.130 --> 00:28:12.130
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: Most of those
who reach Greece by sea

505
00:28:12.130 --> 00:28:16.080
continue their journey over land
through the Western Balkans,

506
00:28:16.080 --> 00:28:20.270
encountering police abuse,
terrible detention conditions

507
00:28:20.270 --> 00:28:22.420
and cascading border closures.

508
00:28:23.620 --> 00:28:26.830
Many EU governments are focused
on preventing arrivals

509
00:28:26.830 --> 00:28:29.100
instead of managing the flow humanely.

510
00:28:30.610 --> 00:28:32.900
A plan to relocate tens of thousands

511
00:28:32.900 --> 00:28:36.590
of asylum seekers from front-line states
like Greece and Italy

512
00:28:36.590 --> 00:28:38.810
has gotten off to such a slow start,

513
00:28:38.810 --> 00:28:43.140
at this rate it will take over 180 years
to reach the target.

514
00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:49.180
And months into this crisis,

515
00:28:49.180 --> 00:28:52.780
with winter approaching,
volunteers—not governments—

516
00:28:52.780 --> 00:28:56.700
are still at the forefront
of providing humanitarian assistance.

517
00:28:56.700 --> 00:28:58.150
REFUGEE WOMAN: [translated]

518
00:28:58.150 --> 00:29:06.420
Do something so that the refugees
won’t suffer so much on the way.

519
00:29:06.420 --> 00:29:07.940
We have suffered a lot.

520
00:29:07.940 --> 00:29:10.330
We came on foot with small children.

521
00:29:10.330 --> 00:29:13.300
People are going to come here anyway,
no matter how difficult.

522
00:29:13.300 --> 00:29:14.640
They are determined to come.

523
00:29:16.500 --> 00:29:17.710
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: Until now,

524
00:29:17.710 --> 00:29:21.620
the response of EU governments
to the crisis has been deeply flawed,

525
00:29:21.620 --> 00:29:26.920
defined by deaths at sea, chaos
and distressing humanitarian conditions.

526
00:29:27.870 --> 00:29:32.030
People should not have to risk
their lives or face so many obstacles

527
00:29:32.030 --> 00:29:33.780
to reach a place of refuge.

528
00:29:35.060 --> 00:29:38.550
The European Union has a legal
and moral obligation

529
00:29:38.550 --> 00:29:43.430
to fairly process and humanely host
asylum seekers and refugees,

530
00:29:43.430 --> 00:29:47.690
and respect the rights and dignity
of everyone who arrives at its border.

531
00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:51.050
SYRIAN REFUGEE MAN: We are from Syria,
from Damascus.

532
00:29:51.050 --> 00:29:53.950
Damascus is a very good—before,
before the war.

533
00:29:54.800 --> 00:29:57.320
We are just like here: We have money,
we have houses,

534
00:29:57.320 --> 00:29:59.140
we have cars—we have everything.

535
00:29:59.140 --> 00:30:00.740
The war damaged everything.

536
00:30:01.670 --> 00:30:02.840
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: So what do you need?

537
00:30:04.690 --> 00:30:06.250
SYRIAN REFUGEE MAN: Peace.

538
00:30:06.250 --> 00:30:09.300
Just peace, yeah.

539
00:30:10.170 --> 00:30:12.800
JUDITH SUNDERLAND: EU governments
should ensure safe passage,

540
00:30:12.800 --> 00:30:16.150
access to asylum
at and within its borders,

541
00:30:16.150 --> 00:30:19.770
and make sure human rights
and compassion are at the heart

542
00:30:19.770 --> 00:30:22.000
of its response to this challenge.

543
00:30:25.020 --> 00:30:26.220
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Desperate Journey:

544
00:30:26.220 --> 00:30:27.870
Europe’s Refugee Crisis,

545
00:30:27.870 --> 00:30:30.930
narrated by Judith Sunderland
of Human Rights Watch.

546
00:30:30.930 --> 00:30:32.600
Still with us is Peter Bouckaert,

547
00:30:32.600 --> 00:30:34.880
Human Rights Watch’s emergencies
director.

548
00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:37.640
Peter, the volunteers
that you’ve referenced

549
00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:40.730
and that we saw in that film,
who are they?

550
00:30:40.730 --> 00:30:43.280
Where are they coming from?
How are they being organized?

551
00:30:43.280 --> 00:30:45.630
PETER BOUCKAERT: You know, I think
that’s one of the most inspiring aspects

552
00:30:45.630 --> 00:30:47.520
of what is happening in Europe.

553
00:30:47.520 --> 00:30:51.200
We have apathy by European governments,

554
00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:53.810
but volunteers have come
from all over the world

555
00:30:53.810 --> 00:30:55.870
to try to help these desperate people.

556
00:30:55.870 --> 00:30:59.830
We have Spanish lifeguards
on the beaches with jet skis,

557
00:30:59.830 --> 00:31:01.980
rescuing boats
when people fall in the water.

558
00:31:01.980 --> 00:31:06.390
Just last night, an Iraqi man
fell off a boat and almost died.

559
00:31:06.390 --> 00:31:09.850
They spent 45 minutes
looking for him in the night.

560
00:31:09.850 --> 00:31:14.500
And an Israeli doctor
revived him and treated his hypothermia.

561
00:31:14.500 --> 00:31:16.850
It’s really that kind of coming together

562
00:31:16.850 --> 00:31:18.750
by volunteers
which is saving so many lives.

563
00:31:18.750 --> 00:31:20.560
AMY GOODMAN: And the last woman
we saw in that piece,

564
00:31:20.560 --> 00:31:21.810
where was she from?

565
00:31:22.610 --> 00:31:25.040
The woman from—was she from Afghanistan?

566
00:31:25.040 --> 00:31:26.920
PETER BOUCKAERT: Yes,
she was from Afghanistan. Yes.

567
00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:29.130
AMY GOODMAN: And what did she tell you?

568
00:31:29.130 --> 00:31:30.190
PETER BOUCKAERT: Well, she told me,

569
00:31:30.980 --> 00:31:34.000
"The obstacles that we face in Europe

570
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:35.650
are not going to stop us.

571
00:31:35.650 --> 00:31:37.960
We’ve walked over mountains
to get this far,

572
00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:39.930
and we will get to our destination."

573
00:31:39.930 --> 00:31:41.110
So the question really is:

574
00:31:41.110 --> 00:31:44.100
How difficult do we want
to make this journey for people?

575
00:31:44.100 --> 00:31:47.070
Because they are determined
to bring their children to safety.

576
00:31:47.070 --> 00:31:51.090
AMY GOODMAN: How many people
a day are landing on Lesbos?

577
00:31:51.090 --> 00:31:54.400
PETER BOUCKAERT: On some of the days
I was there, up to 5,000 people arrived.

578
00:31:54.400 --> 00:31:55.560
That’s a hundred boats.
AMY GOODMAN: By boat, a day?

579
00:31:55.560 --> 00:31:56.660
PETER BOUCKAERT: By boat, yes.

580
00:31:56.660 --> 00:32:01.410
And you have to understand, those people
are paying $1,200 for this trip,

581
00:32:01.410 --> 00:32:04.600
when there’s a legal ferry
doing the same journey for 20 euros,

582
00:32:04.600 --> 00:32:05.850
which is empty.

583
00:32:06.900 --> 00:32:08.400
AMY GOODMAN: Peter Bouckaert,
we want to thank you very much

584
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:11.860
for being with us, emergencies director
for Human Rights Watch.

585
00:32:11.860 --> 00:32:14.120
AMY GOODMAN: As we turn now
to Washington, D.C.,

586
00:32:14.120 --> 00:32:17.410
as House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate
Majority Leader Mitch McConnell

587
00:32:17.410 --> 00:32:21.590
are calling for a pause in the U.S.
program accepting Syrian refugees,

588
00:32:21.590 --> 00:32:23.440
I want to bring into the conversation

589
00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:26.420
Congressmember Barbara Lee
of California.

590
00:32:26.420 --> 00:32:29.480
Your response to the crackdown?

591
00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:34.080
Now, 27 governors are saying
they will not accept Syrian refugees.

592
00:32:34.080 --> 00:32:36.100
In fact, your theory, Peter Bouckaert,

593
00:32:36.100 --> 00:32:41.030
around the finding
of the Syrian passport,

594
00:32:41.030 --> 00:32:42.480
the false passport,

595
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:45.770
in one of the gunmen in Paris?

596
00:32:45.770 --> 00:32:49.220
PETER BOUCKAERT: I think ISIS
wanted that passport to be found.

597
00:32:49.760 --> 00:32:52.720
They hate these refugees
more than anybody in Europe,

598
00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:56.760
because these refugees are fleeing
from their self-declared caliphate.

599
00:32:56.760 --> 00:33:00.060
They would love it
if we shut the door on these refugees.

600
00:33:00.610 --> 00:33:04.600
It’s pure propaganda value for ISIS
if we do so.

601
00:33:04.600 --> 00:33:06.100
AMY GOODMAN: Congressmember Barbara Lee,

602
00:33:06.100 --> 00:33:08.550
what is being called for in Congress?

603
00:33:08.550 --> 00:33:10.410
Your response to the House speaker?

604
00:33:10.410 --> 00:33:14.030
REP. BARBARA LEE: Well, there are some
who are calling for a halt.

605
00:33:14.030 --> 00:33:18.570
I believe Speaker Ryan wants us to,
as he said, put a "pause"

606
00:33:18.570 --> 00:33:20.820
in our refugee policy

607
00:33:20.820 --> 00:33:22.120
and resettlement policy.

608
00:33:22.120 --> 00:33:24.770
But I have to just say, this moment

609
00:33:24.770 --> 00:33:28.280
really tests the character
of our nation, Amy.

610
00:33:28.780 --> 00:33:31.610
When you look at the vetting process,

611
00:33:31.610 --> 00:33:33.660
the investigations, the screening,

612
00:33:33.660 --> 00:33:37.130
the background checks
that occur as it relates to refugees,

613
00:33:37.130 --> 00:33:38.640
especially Syrian refugees,

614
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:40.920
this can take up to two years.

615
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:43.310
Homeland Security is very thorough.

616
00:33:43.310 --> 00:33:45.540
I am on the Appropriations Committee,

617
00:33:45.540 --> 00:33:48.790
and we support and want to work
to make sure Homeland Security

618
00:33:48.790 --> 00:33:51.000
has all the resources that it needs.

619
00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:53.870
But I have to say that to put a halt

620
00:33:53.870 --> 00:33:57.520
into allowing people
to come in who are widows,

621
00:33:57.520 --> 00:34:01.260
who are children,
who are fleeing horrific circumstances,

622
00:34:01.260 --> 00:34:03.560
that’s not who we are as a country.

623
00:34:03.560 --> 00:34:07.990
And there are many of us who are not
going to accept this type of a move

624
00:34:07.990 --> 00:34:10.050
to really put a halt in this program.

625
00:34:10.050 --> 00:34:13.310
This is the moment
when we have to step up as a country

626
00:34:13.310 --> 00:34:15.860
and demonstrate to the world who we are.

627
00:34:15.860 --> 00:34:18.240
And we do have to issue—

628
00:34:18.240 --> 00:34:22.510
I mean, we do have, excuse me,
our overall national security issues

629
00:34:22.510 --> 00:34:24.790
and difficulties
that we have to address,

630
00:34:24.790 --> 00:34:26.550
but we must step up as leaders

631
00:34:26.550 --> 00:34:29.050
and address them in a way
that is American.

632
00:34:29.050 --> 00:34:30.880
That’s the American way to do this.

633
00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:32.880
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Congresswoman Lee,

634
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:37.770
your response to the fact
that this huge refugee crisis—

635
00:34:37.770 --> 00:34:39.600
the responsibility of the United States,

636
00:34:39.600 --> 00:34:44.630
given that the refugees are largely
coming from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan,

637
00:34:44.630 --> 00:34:46.700
precisely the countries

638
00:34:46.700 --> 00:34:48.570
that our government was involved

639
00:34:48.570 --> 00:34:51.730
in military interventions
and occupations of,

640
00:34:51.730 --> 00:34:57.080
and that now has led to this chaos
and extremism in their own lands?

641
00:34:58.300 --> 00:34:59.890
REP. BARBARA LEE: Well, 14 years ago,

642
00:34:59.890 --> 00:35:03.550
I voted against the blank check
that authorized the use of force

643
00:35:03.550 --> 00:35:07.710
that created the conditions
for what we see today.

644
00:35:07.710 --> 00:35:10.570
This was the wrong approach, I believe.

645
00:35:10.570 --> 00:35:16.280
We see that the military actions
have not made the world any safer.

646
00:35:16.280 --> 00:35:20.320
And, in fact, we need to really begin
to look at our overall strategy

647
00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:21.800
and look at what is—

648
00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:24.440
what are the underlying causes
and reasons

649
00:35:24.440 --> 00:35:26.740
for all of this chaos
and all of this violence.

650
00:35:26.740 --> 00:35:31.200
That does not mean
that we do not intend to deal with ISIS

651
00:35:31.200 --> 00:35:32.520
and any other terrorist group.

652
00:35:32.520 --> 00:35:35.440
We can’t look at the world
through rose-colored glasses.

653
00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:37.740
We have to have a comprehensive strategy

654
00:35:37.740 --> 00:35:41.150
that’s going to dismantle
and defeat ISIS.

655
00:35:41.150 --> 00:35:45.290
But that doesn’t mean we create war
and more violence and more conditions

656
00:35:45.290 --> 00:35:47.980
that cause people to continue to flee.

657
00:35:47.980 --> 00:35:50.520
So we have to go back
to the drawing board, I believe,

658
00:35:50.520 --> 00:35:54.110
and really come up
with a reasonable, rational strategy.

659
00:35:54.110 --> 00:35:57.300
Also, let me say
that we have not had a debate.

660
00:35:57.300 --> 00:36:00.230
We have not had a new authorization
to use force.

661
00:36:00.230 --> 00:36:03.160
We have not done our jobs
as members of Congress

662
00:36:03.160 --> 00:36:05.190
to authorize these new wars.

663
00:36:05.190 --> 00:36:07.060
And so we need, at this point, I think,

664
00:36:07.060 --> 00:36:10.170
a full debate on the options,
the alternatives, the costs

665
00:36:10.170 --> 00:36:11.450
and the consequences.

666
00:36:11.450 --> 00:36:18.140
But minimally, we should not prevent
people fleeing from countries

667
00:36:18.140 --> 00:36:20.590
that are war-torn
from coming to our country.

668
00:36:20.590 --> 00:36:24.340
We have very strong,
strict investigative processes.

669
00:36:24.340 --> 00:36:25.710
We do background checks.

670
00:36:25.710 --> 00:36:28.710
Homeland Security,
if they need more resources, of course,

671
00:36:28.710 --> 00:36:30.400
I would support more resources.

672
00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:32.020
I think many members would.

673
00:36:32.020 --> 00:36:36.840
But we can’t allow the character
and the values of our nation change

674
00:36:36.840 --> 00:36:39.610
under such a terrible crisis
that’s taking place.

675
00:36:39.610 --> 00:36:40.820
AMY GOODMAN: Congressmember Barbara Lee,

676
00:36:40.820 --> 00:36:43.560
we want to go back to that moment
14 years ago

677
00:36:43.560 --> 00:36:46.210
when you cast the sole dissenting vote

678
00:36:46.210 --> 00:36:48.760
against the U.S. invasion
of Afghanistan.

679
00:36:48.760 --> 00:36:54.400
Let’s go back to that speech
three days after September 11th attacks.

680
00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:56.520
REP. BARBARA LEE: September
11th changed the world.

681
00:36:57.300 --> 00:36:59.850
Our deepest fears now haunt us.

682
00:37:00.410 --> 00:37:06.980
Yet I am convinced that military action
will not prevent further acts

683
00:37:06.980 --> 00:37:10.410
of international terrorism
against the United States.

684
00:37:10.410 --> 00:37:14.410
This is a very complex
and complicated matter.

685
00:37:15.180 --> 00:37:17.350
Now, this resolution will pass,

686
00:37:17.350 --> 00:37:22.010
although we all know that the president
can wage a war even without it.

687
00:37:23.240 --> 00:37:25.920
However difficult this vote may be,

688
00:37:26.620 --> 00:37:31.000
some of us must urge
the use of restraint.

689
00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:34.010
Our country is in a state of mourning.

690
00:37:34.770 --> 00:37:37.690
Some of us must say,
let’s step back for a moment.

691
00:37:37.690 --> 00:37:39.650
Let’s just pause,
just for just a minute,

692
00:37:40.250 --> 00:37:44.780
and think through the implications
of our actions today,

693
00:37:44.780 --> 00:37:48.190
so that this does not spiral
out of control.

694
00:37:49.110 --> 00:37:51.360
Now, I have agonized over this vote.

695
00:37:52.590 --> 00:37:55.460
But I came to grips with it today.

696
00:37:55.460 --> 00:37:58.900
And I came to grips
with opposing this resolution

697
00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:04.480
during the very painful,
yet very beautiful, memorial service.

698
00:38:05.910 --> 00:38:12.440
As a member of the clergy
so eloquently said, "As we act,

699
00:38:13.230 --> 00:38:18.000
let us not become the evil
that we deplore."

700
00:38:18.760 --> 00:38:21.710
AMY GOODMAN: That was California
Congressmember Barbara Lee speaking

701
00:38:21.710 --> 00:38:26.300
on September 14, 2001, three days
after the 9/11 attacks.

702
00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:29.470
Congressmember Lee,
you’re now calling on Congress

703
00:38:29.470 --> 00:38:34.410
to repeal the 2001 and 2002
authorizations for military force,

704
00:38:34.410 --> 00:38:38.660
saying they’ve been used as blank checks
for endless war.

705
00:38:38.660 --> 00:38:41.530
Can you talk about who’s
joining you in this call?

706
00:38:41.530 --> 00:38:43.560
When you made that speech 14 years ago,

707
00:38:43.560 --> 00:38:46.710
you got death threats,
you had to get security around you.

708
00:38:48.330 --> 00:38:51.810
REP. BARBARA LEE: Amy,
those were very difficult days.

709
00:38:52.780 --> 00:38:56.600
We had been under a terrible attack.

710
00:38:56.600 --> 00:38:58.940
We lost many, many people.

711
00:38:58.940 --> 00:39:02.560
My chief of staff’s cousin, Wanda Green,

712
00:39:03.090 --> 00:39:05.410
unfortunately, was on Flight 93.

713
00:39:05.410 --> 00:39:10.760
We lost Wanda and all of the victims
of the horrific attacks

714
00:39:10.760 --> 00:39:12.660
of 9/11 we still think about,

715
00:39:12.660 --> 00:39:15.000
pray for, and wonder
how this could happen.

716
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:19.710
And so, believe you me,
during that moment, we had,

717
00:39:19.710 --> 00:39:24.970
I believe, then,
the chance to really step out,

718
00:39:24.970 --> 00:39:27.320
continue with our mourning and anger,

719
00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:31.540
but, as members of Congress, try
to come up with some rational approach

720
00:39:31.540 --> 00:39:35.400
to address terrorism in a way
that did not cause more wars,

721
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:37.680
more terrorist attacks
and more violence.

722
00:39:38.190 --> 00:39:39.450
Having said that,

723
00:39:39.450 --> 00:39:42.340
then the Iraq resolution
came forward the next year,

724
00:39:42.340 --> 00:39:46.520
with this resolution
as the basis for the Iraq resolution.

725
00:39:46.520 --> 00:39:47.820
And at this point,

726
00:39:47.820 --> 00:39:50.990
we asked the Congressional
Research Service last year,

727
00:39:50.990 --> 00:39:53.320
Amy, to conduct a survey for us—

728
00:39:53.320 --> 00:39:54.720
it’s unclassified—

729
00:39:54.720 --> 00:39:58.750
to determine when and where
these authorizations have been used.

730
00:39:58.750 --> 00:40:02.250
Well, over 30-some times
they’ve been used in Somalia and Yemen,

731
00:40:02.250 --> 00:40:03.690
all around the world,

732
00:40:03.690 --> 00:40:05.830
for the use of force

733
00:40:05.830 --> 00:40:09.390
or for other types
of indeterminate detentions,

734
00:40:09.390 --> 00:40:12.920
Guantánamo, wiretaps, you name it.

735
00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:15.520
And so, we need to go back now.
This is a new day.

736
00:40:15.520 --> 00:40:19.430
This is another war
that the United States is in.

737
00:40:19.430 --> 00:40:24.390
And, in fact, I think the public
is demanding that we debate this,

738
00:40:24.390 --> 00:40:26.190
look at the costs and consequences,

739
00:40:26.190 --> 00:40:29.920
debate whether or not we
should authorize another use of force.

740
00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:31.870
I’m not saying we should or should not,

741
00:40:31.870 --> 00:40:32.910
but minimally,

742
00:40:32.910 --> 00:40:36.140
our constitutional responsibility
warrants that we do that.

743
00:40:36.650 --> 00:40:40.160
Now, we have many members of Congress
who have supported this effort.

744
00:40:40.160 --> 00:40:45.000
I mean, we—sometimes I have amendments
to the appropriate bills,

745
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:48.980
and I’ve—that would say,
let’s repeal these authorizations.

746
00:40:48.980 --> 00:40:51.670
Congressman McGovern,
Congressman Jones, others,

747
00:40:52.460 --> 00:40:56.320
in a bipartisan way, have stepped up
and offered these amendments.

748
00:40:56.320 --> 00:41:00.590
And we probably
get between 150 and 170 votes.

749
00:41:00.590 --> 00:41:02.440
Well, you know,
in the House, it takes about—

750
00:41:02.440 --> 00:41:04.290
it takes 218 votes,

751
00:41:04.290 --> 00:41:07.570
and we have not gotten
to that point yet.

752
00:41:07.570 --> 00:41:10.830
But I believe the more we talk about it,
the more the public

753
00:41:10.830 --> 00:41:15.200
is going to demand that they understand
what is taking place and engage in—

754
00:41:15.200 --> 00:41:20.260
and make us engage in doing our job
the proper way and engage in a debate.

755
00:41:20.260 --> 00:41:23.630
Because three days
after the horrific attacks of 9/11,

756
00:41:23.630 --> 00:41:28.110
I think we had a one-hour debate, Amy,
on the use of force.

757
00:41:28.110 --> 00:41:30.030
That, to me, was just wrong.

758
00:41:30.030 --> 00:41:32.120
It abdicated our responsibility.

759
00:41:32.120 --> 00:41:33.270
We should have waited.

760
00:41:33.270 --> 00:41:34.940
We should have assessed what took place

761
00:41:34.940 --> 00:41:37.740
and come up
with a comprehensive strategy

762
00:41:37.740 --> 00:41:40.030
in our response to 9/11.

763
00:41:40.030 --> 00:41:43.540
So I think we need to really go back now
and have that debate,

764
00:41:43.540 --> 00:41:45.480
that we never had before, quite frankly.

765
00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:47.540
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Congresswoman Lee,

766
00:41:48.600 --> 00:41:53.370
your assessment of how President Obama
is dealing with the situation currently?

767
00:41:53.370 --> 00:41:58.430
Obviously, he came into office vowing
to end the wars in the Middle East.

768
00:41:58.430 --> 00:42:03.760
He has now extended the troops,
ground troops, in Afghanistan

769
00:42:03.760 --> 00:42:07.800
through the end of his term
and reinserted 50 more—

770
00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:10.210
or 50 ground troops now into Syria.

771
00:42:10.210 --> 00:42:12.350
Your sense
of how he’s dealing with things?

772
00:42:12.350 --> 00:42:14.990
REP. BARBARA LEE: Well, first,
he certainly has shifted direction

773
00:42:14.990 --> 00:42:16.660
from the Bush administration.

774
00:42:16.660 --> 00:42:21.610
Of course, I am extremely concerned
about the additional troops.

775
00:42:21.610 --> 00:42:23.860
I don’t support the use
of ground troops.

776
00:42:23.860 --> 00:42:29.010
We understand this has got
to be a regionally led commitment

777
00:42:29.010 --> 00:42:33.660
to dismantle and disable and rid
the world, quite frankly, of ISIS.

778
00:42:33.660 --> 00:42:35.330
But it’s got to be regionally led.

779
00:42:35.330 --> 00:42:39.010
So I think the president is trying
to calibrate this in a way that—

780
00:42:39.010 --> 00:42:41.350
and he has said he’s not going
to send ground troops in,

781
00:42:41.350 --> 00:42:45.460
but I don’t want to see this mission
creep occur on his watch.

782
00:42:45.460 --> 00:42:49.520
And he did send forward a resolution,
under Speaker Boehner,

783
00:42:49.520 --> 00:42:53.350
last year
for us to debate and to vote on,

784
00:42:53.350 --> 00:42:57.410
and Speaker Boehner never
brought this resolution before us.

785
00:42:57.410 --> 00:42:59.420
And so, we’ve never even had a chance

786
00:42:59.420 --> 00:43:02.430
to look at what the president
has done or is doing,

787
00:43:02.430 --> 00:43:05.710
and really have Congress
either back it or not back it.

788
00:43:05.710 --> 00:43:08.220
And so, I think what the president
is saying now, though,

789
00:43:08.220 --> 00:43:11.340
is very important
when he talks about the refugee crisis

790
00:43:11.340 --> 00:43:14.070
and how we should not shift our policy

791
00:43:14.070 --> 00:43:18.640
and how we need to continue to step up
and do the right thing as Americans.

792
00:43:18.640 --> 00:43:20.190
And so, the president, I think,

793
00:43:20.190 --> 00:43:25.050
needs to have Congress
weigh in on his strategy,

794
00:43:25.050 --> 00:43:27.340
because if we don’t weigh in,

795
00:43:27.340 --> 00:43:30.740
we’ve abdicated our responsibility
to the administration.

796
00:43:30.740 --> 00:43:35.830
And, you know, then the public
will never know what Congress’s will,

797
00:43:35.830 --> 00:43:37.130
which would be their will,

798
00:43:37.130 --> 00:43:42.280
would be as it relates to the escalation
of the use of force in the region,

799
00:43:42.280 --> 00:43:43.850
which we have not authorized.

800
00:43:44.910 --> 00:43:47.290
AMY GOODMAN: The U.S. has just sealed,

801
00:43:47.290 --> 00:43:51.090
the Obama administration,
yet another arms deal with Saudi Arabia,

802
00:43:51.090 --> 00:43:53.140
in the last year

803
00:43:53.140 --> 00:43:56.450
signed the biggest arms deals
in the history of the world

804
00:43:56.450 --> 00:43:59.920
with Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia

805
00:43:59.920 --> 00:44:07.060
behind a lot of the militant activism
from al-Qaeda to ISIS.

806
00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:10.050
Do you condemn these sales?
REP. BARBARA LEE: Well,

807
00:44:10.050 --> 00:44:13.320
first, we need to reduce the sale
of arms throughout the world.

808
00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:17.970
Also, I think when you look at the—
for example,

809
00:44:17.970 --> 00:44:23.150
trying to rid Iran of the ability
to develop nuclear weapons,

810
00:44:23.150 --> 00:44:27.350
we engaged in a strong,
robust diplomatic effort.

811
00:44:27.350 --> 00:44:29.780
Many years ago,
I introduced the first resolution

812
00:44:29.780 --> 00:44:32.490
calling for the end
of no contact policy,

813
00:44:32.490 --> 00:44:36.590
for a special envoy and for us
to begin to negotiate with Iran

814
00:44:36.590 --> 00:44:40.960
the elimination of their program
of developing nuclear weapons.

815
00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:45.530
So far, those negotiations
and that Iranian deal has worked.

816
00:44:45.530 --> 00:44:50.480
And so I think that we need to move
in that direction in terms of diplomacy,

817
00:44:50.480 --> 00:44:52.560
in terms of trying to seek global peace

818
00:44:52.560 --> 00:44:57.630
and security
without selling arms to all countries,

819
00:44:57.630 --> 00:45:01.200
because what you will have
is an arms buildup throughout the world,

820
00:45:01.200 --> 00:45:03.750
and then weapons will be pointed at—

821
00:45:03.750 --> 00:45:05.550
each country will have weapons—

822
00:45:06.120 --> 00:45:10.140
of course, a nuclear weapon
is the ultimate weapon—

823
00:45:10.140 --> 00:45:12.110
pointed in all directions.

824
00:45:12.110 --> 00:45:14.760
And so, we need to determine ways,

825
00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:17.340
as the president has done
with regard to Iran,

826
00:45:17.340 --> 00:45:20.750
ways in which to engage
to reduce the threats

827
00:45:20.750 --> 00:45:22.780
and to reduce the sale

828
00:45:22.780 --> 00:45:27.140
and the use of force and armaments
and military weapons,

829
00:45:27.140 --> 00:45:30.330
because these can only make
the world more dangerous.

830
00:45:30.870 --> 00:45:33.150
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And I’m wondering
what advice you might have

831
00:45:33.150 --> 00:45:35.500
to parliamentarians in France now,

832
00:45:35.500 --> 00:45:38.060
as France is going
through the same kind of crisis

833
00:45:38.060 --> 00:45:43.820
that this country
went through after the attacks of 2001.

834
00:45:43.820 --> 00:45:48.370
The president is now seeking
authorization from the French Parliament

835
00:45:48.370 --> 00:45:51.970
for extraordinary measures
in his country.

836
00:45:51.970 --> 00:45:56.090
What advice might you give
to the parliamentarians of France?

837
00:45:56.090 --> 00:45:57.590
REP. BARBARA LEE: Well, first,
my thoughts and prayers

838
00:45:57.590 --> 00:46:00.450
go out to the people of France.

839
00:46:00.450 --> 00:46:05.190
They’re really in a moment
of sorrow and pain.

840
00:46:05.190 --> 00:46:09.060
We feel the tragedy and the pain
that they’re suffering through.

841
00:46:09.060 --> 00:46:11.560
Of course, France is one of our oldest—

842
00:46:11.560 --> 00:46:12.850
is our oldest ally.

843
00:46:12.850 --> 00:46:17.970
And we have many, many connections,
many relationships, our foreign policy.

844
00:46:17.970 --> 00:46:21.570
We have many similarities
to the French people,

845
00:46:21.570 --> 00:46:24.240
and so we have to really feel
what has taken place

846
00:46:24.240 --> 00:46:28.810
and support the French people
throughout this terrible,

847
00:46:28.810 --> 00:46:30.630
difficult moment.

848
00:46:30.630 --> 00:46:33.780
My only suggestion
would be to debate this,

849
00:46:33.780 --> 00:46:36.840
to listen,
to look at all of the alternatives,

850
00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:38.690
and to not rush to judgment.

851
00:46:38.690 --> 00:46:46.580
Whatever the Parliament decides, I think
it takes a methodology and strategy

852
00:46:46.580 --> 00:46:49.350
that really will keep the country safe

853
00:46:49.350 --> 00:46:52.850
and that will ensure
that violence is reduced,

854
00:46:52.850 --> 00:46:55.410
rather than engage in actions

855
00:46:55.410 --> 00:46:57.570
that would create more havoc
and more violence.

856
00:46:57.570 --> 00:46:59.970
But I tell you,
that’s up to the French Parliament

857
00:46:59.970 --> 00:47:01.050
and the French people

858
00:47:01.050 --> 00:47:04.490
to determine how best they
want to respond as a country.

859
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:07.180
AMY GOODMAN: If war were not an option,

860
00:47:07.180 --> 00:47:12.340
Congressmember Lee, the U.S. spending
actually trillions of dollars on war,

861
00:47:12.340 --> 00:47:14.280
when you look at all of the costs,

862
00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:16.040
including soldiers coming home

863
00:47:16.040 --> 00:47:19.470
deeply wounded and being cared
for for the rest of their lives,

864
00:47:19.470 --> 00:47:24.220
not to mention the havoc on the ground
in the Middle East, from Afghanistan

865
00:47:24.220 --> 00:47:25.250
to Iraq and Syria,

866
00:47:27.160 --> 00:47:28.540
what is the option?

867
00:47:28.540 --> 00:47:31.610
What is the foreign policy
that you would design?

868
00:47:33.600 --> 00:47:35.380
REP. BARBARA LEE: The foreign policy
that I would design—

869
00:47:35.380 --> 00:47:39.150
and I have legislation
that sort of sets out, for example,

870
00:47:39.150 --> 00:47:42.950
what a roadmap
to a strategy in the Middle East

871
00:47:42.950 --> 00:47:44.340
would be as it relates to ISIS,

872
00:47:44.340 --> 00:47:46.890
and that’s looking
at not the military option

873
00:47:46.890 --> 00:47:48.520
as the first option, Amy—

874
00:47:48.520 --> 00:47:50.810
that’s always going to be there—

875
00:47:50.810 --> 00:47:57.030
but looking at how we can support
and enhance a regionally led strategy

876
00:47:57.030 --> 00:48:00.790
that would lead to a political
and diplomatic settlement.

877
00:48:00.790 --> 00:48:02.340
The people have to be empowered.

878
00:48:02.340 --> 00:48:07.850
They have to feel that their countries
are including them in the government

879
00:48:07.850 --> 00:48:11.950
and in all of the development
and the fabric of their governments.

880
00:48:11.950 --> 00:48:14.360
That’s not happening in many countries
in the world.

881
00:48:14.360 --> 00:48:17.500
And so we have to have
a regionally led strategy.

882
00:48:17.500 --> 00:48:20.170
And my legislation lays that out.

883
00:48:20.170 --> 00:48:21.910
Of course, as I said earlier,

884
00:48:21.910 --> 00:48:23.870
the military option
is going to always be there.

885
00:48:23.870 --> 00:48:29.240
We can’t say that the use of force
or military action is never acceptable.

886
00:48:29.240 --> 00:48:31.400
But we have to try other methods first,

887
00:48:31.400 --> 00:48:34.390
if we really want to achieve
global peace and security.

888
00:48:34.390 --> 00:48:38.160
And I think that’s what many members
of Congress are saying,

889
00:48:38.160 --> 00:48:43.660
regardless
of the extremely right-wing responses.

890
00:48:43.660 --> 00:48:45.100
We have to,

891
00:48:45.100 --> 00:48:49.230
as leaders, really lay out
a vision and an alternative,

892
00:48:49.230 --> 00:48:52.440
and hopefully have a debate
on what those alternatives are,

893
00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:55.310
because our veterans have come home,

894
00:48:55.910 --> 00:48:58.980
many can’t even get a job,
many are homeless.

895
00:48:58.980 --> 00:49:00.400
I’m the daughter of a veteran.

896
00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:02.950
And, Amy, I’m telling you,
we—our veterans

897
00:49:02.950 --> 00:49:05.890
have paid us a very heavy price.

898
00:49:05.890 --> 00:49:07.290
They’ve served this country well.

899
00:49:07.290 --> 00:49:09.600
They’ve done everything
we’ve asked them to do.

900
00:49:09.600 --> 00:49:14.010
Yet we cannot seem to figure out ways
to insure their health,

901
00:49:14.010 --> 00:49:15.520
their mental health, their security.

902
00:49:15.520 --> 00:49:18.710
Of course, we’ve done much better
under this administration.

903
00:49:18.710 --> 00:49:20.330
And when—of course,

904
00:49:20.990 --> 00:49:22.080
as I have to say,

905
00:49:22.080 --> 00:49:24.530
when Speaker Pelosi was speaker
during those years,

906
00:49:24.530 --> 00:49:28.860
we did invest more in our veterans
and in their security,

907
00:49:28.860 --> 00:49:31.050
economic security, healthcare
and mental health.

908
00:49:31.050 --> 00:49:32.660
But we haven’t done everything
we should do,

909
00:49:32.660 --> 00:49:34.530
and we need to do more for our veterans.

910
00:49:34.530 --> 00:49:38.530
We need—I’m on the veterans subcommittee
of the Appropriations Committee.

911
00:49:38.530 --> 00:49:42.190
And believe you me,
we need many more efforts

912
00:49:42.190 --> 00:49:43.790
and many more resources

913
00:49:43.790 --> 00:49:46.190
put into the veterans’ initiatives
that we all support.

914
00:49:46.190 --> 00:49:47.680
AMY GOODMAN: Congressmember—
Congressmember Lee,

915
00:49:47.680 --> 00:49:48.740
we just have 30 seconds.

916
00:49:48.740 --> 00:49:50.940
On a wholly different issue,
the Supreme Court

917
00:49:50.940 --> 00:49:55.690
has just agreed to hear the challenge
to the Texas law, abortion law.

918
00:49:55.690 --> 00:49:59.870
In July, you introduced a bill
to expand abortion access

919
00:49:59.870 --> 00:50:01.520
by repealing the Hyde Amendment,

920
00:50:01.520 --> 00:50:02.610
which gives—

921
00:50:02.610 --> 00:50:05.690
which forbids any kind
of federal funding of abortion.

922
00:50:05.690 --> 00:50:06.850
Where is that going?

923
00:50:06.850 --> 00:50:10.640
And your response
to the Supreme Court looking at this law

924
00:50:10.640 --> 00:50:14.190
that could close three-quarters
of the abortion clinics in Texas?

925
00:50:14.190 --> 00:50:16.100
REP. BARBARA LEE: Well, let me say,
the Hyde Amendment

926
00:50:16.100 --> 00:50:18.010
was instituted in the '70s.

927
00:50:18.010 --> 00:50:19.710
It prevented a full range

928
00:50:19.710 --> 00:50:23.250
of access to reproductive health
services, including abortions,

929
00:50:23.250 --> 00:50:26.840
for low-income women,
many of which are women of color.

930
00:50:26.840 --> 00:50:33.620
And no one in Congress
has stepped up in the past

931
00:50:33.620 --> 00:50:35.180
to try to repeal that amendment.

932
00:50:35.180 --> 00:50:39.550
But young women around the country
developed a movement, several years ago,

933
00:50:39.550 --> 00:50:41.080
to say, "We're not going to allow

934
00:50:41.080 --> 00:50:44.210
this to continue
without having a full debate on it

935
00:50:44.210 --> 00:50:48.440
and without having an effort
to repeal this Hyde Amendment."

936
00:50:48.440 --> 00:50:50.580
And I have to applaud all of the members

937
00:50:50.580 --> 00:50:54.090
of Congress, the Pro-Choice Caucus,
our leader, Pelosi,

938
00:50:54.090 --> 00:50:55.350
and the women, especially,

939
00:50:55.350 --> 00:50:58.320
around the country who said, "Lets’
introduce a bill to repeal it."

940
00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:00.030
We have now, Amy—

941
00:51:00.030 --> 00:51:03.470
within seven or eight months,
we have 103 co-sponsors.

942
00:51:03.470 --> 00:51:07.200
And so, I think the country
understands that the right wing

943
00:51:07.200 --> 00:51:09.220
is trying to take away women’s rights.

944
00:51:09.220 --> 00:51:10.770
There is a war on women.

945
00:51:10.770 --> 00:51:12.070
And we’re not going to let that happen.

946
00:51:12.070 --> 00:51:14.300
And so we have to fight back.
We’re on the offense.

947
00:51:14.300 --> 00:51:16.110
And we’re going to one day—

948
00:51:16.110 --> 00:51:18.140
and I think it’s going
to be sooner than later—

949
00:51:18.140 --> 00:51:20.870
we’re going to make sure
that low-income women have full access

950
00:51:20.870 --> 00:51:23.280
to reproductive health services.

951
00:51:23.280 --> 00:51:28.030
And that’s the way you ensure liberty
and justice for all women.

952
00:51:28.030 --> 00:51:30.790
AMY GOODMAN: Congressmember Barbara Lee,
we want to thank you for being with us.

953
00:51:30.790 --> 00:51:31.860
This is Democracy Now!

954
00:51:31.860 --> 00:51:33.120
We’ll be back in a minute.

955
00:52:41.500 --> 00:52:53.670
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: We end today’s show
in Paris by looking at the impact

956
00:52:53.670 --> 00:52:57.320
of Friday’s attacks on the upcoming U.N.
climate change conference.

957
00:52:57.320 --> 00:53:01.080
Organizers from around the world have
been planning demonstrations and actions

958
00:53:01.080 --> 00:53:03.050
throughout the two-week conference,

959
00:53:03.050 --> 00:53:06.590
including a massive march
scheduled for November 29th,

960
00:53:06.590 --> 00:53:08.780
the day before the talks begin.

961
00:53:08.780 --> 00:53:12.350
As many as 200,000 people
were expected to attend.

962
00:53:12.350 --> 00:53:13.690
AMY GOODMAN: But now French authorities

963
00:53:13.690 --> 00:53:16.620
are threatening to curtail
the public demonstrations and marches

964
00:53:16.620 --> 00:53:18.220
in the wake of Friday’s attacks.

965
00:53:18.220 --> 00:53:21.710
For more, we’re going directly to Paris
to Alix Mazounie,

966
00:53:21.710 --> 00:53:25.760
the international policies coordinator
at Climate Action Network France.

967
00:53:25.760 --> 00:53:27.610
On Tuesday, she was part of a meeting

968
00:53:27.610 --> 00:53:30.440
with the French foreign minister,
Laurent Fabius,

969
00:53:30.440 --> 00:53:35.170
to discuss the ways the marches
and demonstrations could go forward.

970
00:53:35.170 --> 00:53:39.610
Alix, welcome to Democracy
Now! What came of this meeting?

971
00:53:39.610 --> 00:53:42.380
And then,

972
00:53:42.380 --> 00:53:46.340
we would like to ask you to describe
what the climate is like in Paris now.

973
00:53:49.490 --> 00:53:50.760
ALIX MAZOUNIE: So, indeed,

974
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:53.900
a number of NGOs
met with our foreign affairs minister

975
00:53:53.900 --> 00:53:57.310
yesterday morning to discuss
what could come out, you know,

976
00:53:57.310 --> 00:54:00.150
what kind of mobilizations
would still be authorized,

977
00:54:00.150 --> 00:54:04.420
not just on November 29th,
but also across both weeks of the COP,

978
00:54:04.420 --> 00:54:06.170
as many, many things were planned.

979
00:54:06.170 --> 00:54:07.920
And so, the signal,
the political signal,

980
00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:08.940
he sent us was:

981
00:54:08.940 --> 00:54:10.720
"We want to maintain a form

982
00:54:10.720 --> 00:54:12.750
of public expression across both weeks.

983
00:54:12.750 --> 00:54:14.280
We’re looking into options.

984
00:54:14.280 --> 00:54:17.600
Obviously, the main concern is safety,
safety of the French people,

985
00:54:17.600 --> 00:54:19.940
safety of all the people
in the streets of Paris,

986
00:54:19.940 --> 00:54:21.630
internationals, nationals,

987
00:54:21.630 --> 00:54:24.690
who want to march on climate change
and express themselves."

988
00:54:24.690 --> 00:54:27.280
So, I mean, he sent us
an important political signal,

989
00:54:27.280 --> 00:54:29.220
but he is the minister
of foreign affairs,

990
00:54:29.220 --> 00:54:32.230
not the minister
in charge of safety concerns.

991
00:54:32.230 --> 00:54:34.870
So what we’re waiting for now
is a definite response

992
00:54:34.870 --> 00:54:37.800
from the prime minister tonight
or tomorrow morning

993
00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:40.910
to tell us exactly what form of that—

994
00:54:40.910 --> 00:54:43.630
you know, we hope that there will be
a form of public expression

995
00:54:43.630 --> 00:54:45.890
and that the question
is not whether or not there will be one,

996
00:54:45.890 --> 00:54:47.660
but which one it will be,

997
00:54:47.660 --> 00:54:50.250
taking into account
all those security constraints.

998
00:54:50.760 --> 00:54:54.100
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And in terms
of the situation with the borders

999
00:54:54.100 --> 00:54:56.360
and people who might be
coming from other countries,

1000
00:54:56.360 --> 00:54:58.470
coming into France,

1001
00:54:58.470 --> 00:55:01.880
will there be increased difficulties,
in that sense?

1002
00:55:04.230 --> 00:55:07.250
ALIX MAZOUNIE: So we were told
that people with Schengen visas

1003
00:55:07.250 --> 00:55:08.970
would still be able to get
through the borders,

1004
00:55:08.970 --> 00:55:13.120
and it was only a matter of security
checks at the borders regularly,

1005
00:55:13.120 --> 00:55:15.360
so people would have
to have all their documents with them,

1006
00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:18.400
but that normally,
apart from a few extra challenges,

1007
00:55:18.400 --> 00:55:21.580
it should not stop international groups
from coming to Paris.

1008
00:55:21.580 --> 00:55:24.270
And this is a very important signal
of solidarity.

1009
00:55:24.270 --> 00:55:26.860
We need them to be in Paris
with us throughout the COP.

1010
00:55:26.860 --> 00:55:28.800
We need them to march with us
on the 29th.

1011
00:55:28.800 --> 00:55:31.090
And we need them to support us also
across the world,

1012
00:55:31.090 --> 00:55:32.320
not just in Paris.

1013
00:55:32.320 --> 00:55:34.910
We know that a number
of marches will be organized,

1014
00:55:34.910 --> 00:55:37.940
you know, in different places
across all continents

1015
00:55:37.940 --> 00:55:39.670
on November 28th and 29th,

1016
00:55:39.670 --> 00:55:42.000
and we want them to march in solidarity
with us,

1017
00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:43.430
on our behalf and in our name.

1018
00:55:43.430 --> 00:55:46.100
So we hope that the message
will be sent across to everyone.

1019
00:55:46.100 --> 00:55:50.980
AMY GOODMAN: We’re speaking just hours
after another raid on a Paris apartment,

1020
00:55:50.980 --> 00:55:54.420
and this resulted in seven arrests
and two people dead.

1021
00:55:54.940 --> 00:55:56.230
It’s not clear

1022
00:55:56.230 --> 00:56:00.560
how much more of these kind
of actions will be going on.

1023
00:56:00.560 --> 00:56:04.830
Why do you feel it is still important
to march on November 29th,

1024
00:56:04.830 --> 00:56:06.840
not to mention have actions

1025
00:56:06.840 --> 00:56:09.120
throughout the two weeks
of the climate summit?

1026
00:56:11.700 --> 00:56:14.020
ALIX MAZOUNIE: I think
that the discussions that we’ve been

1027
00:56:14.020 --> 00:56:16.530
having among French groups
and with international groups is that,

1028
00:56:16.530 --> 00:56:19.340
more than ever before,
we need to tackle climate change.

1029
00:56:19.340 --> 00:56:21.300
If there is one war
that needs to be done, you know,

1030
00:56:21.300 --> 00:56:23.920
and we have to go for it,
it’s the war against climate change.

1031
00:56:23.920 --> 00:56:25.700
And it will have impacts on many—

1032
00:56:25.700 --> 00:56:26.800
on many other issues.

1033
00:56:26.800 --> 00:56:28.290
It will increase social stability.

1034
00:56:28.290 --> 00:56:30.100
It will make sure people
have food in their stomachs.

1035
00:56:30.100 --> 00:56:31.880
It will make sure people
can live with they are

1036
00:56:31.880 --> 00:56:35.620
and they don’t live in a climate
of fear or social instability.

1037
00:56:35.620 --> 00:56:36.700
So, in that context,

1038
00:56:36.700 --> 00:56:39.080
we want a strong climate agreement
in Paris.

1039
00:56:39.080 --> 00:56:41.100
We want to make sure
that more and more people

1040
00:56:41.100 --> 00:56:43.510
mobilize on the issue of climate change,

1041
00:56:43.510 --> 00:56:47.060
but, more generally, around solidarity,
unity and peace, obviously,

1042
00:56:47.060 --> 00:56:49.140
which are all very connected issues.

1043
00:56:49.140 --> 00:56:51.630
And, you know, the motto
of the city of Paris,

1044
00:56:51.630 --> 00:56:53.700
I don’t know exactly
how to translate it into English,

1045
00:56:53.700 --> 00:56:54.950
but it basically says,

1046
00:56:54.950 --> 00:56:56.390
"We can cope with waves,

1047
00:56:56.390 --> 00:56:58.110
but you know we will never, ever sink.

1048
00:56:58.110 --> 00:57:00.860
We will stay afloat." And I think
this is also part of the message.

1049
00:57:00.860 --> 00:57:03.090
More than ever, people across the world

1050
00:57:03.090 --> 00:57:06.030
and in Paris need to stand up
to say that they are fearless

1051
00:57:06.030 --> 00:57:09.560
and that they want their right to public
and democratic freedom of speech,

1052
00:57:09.560 --> 00:57:10.740
and that climate change

1053
00:57:10.740 --> 00:57:12.910
today is that one issue
where we can express it.

1054
00:57:12.910 --> 00:57:16.770
And that’s why we need people
to mobilize across both weeks in Paris

1055
00:57:16.770 --> 00:57:18.970
and across the world
in solidarity with us.

1056
00:57:18.970 --> 00:57:22.650
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And are you worried
that the national leaders,

1057
00:57:22.650 --> 00:57:24.030
now so much focused,

1058
00:57:24.030 --> 00:57:26.120
after the horrible events of last week,

1059
00:57:26.120 --> 00:57:28.510
on fighting terrorism,

1060
00:57:28.510 --> 00:57:31.710
might not be as focused on the issue

1061
00:57:31.710 --> 00:57:34.480
of the negotiations
that occur at the summit?

1062
00:57:36.900 --> 00:57:38.650
ALIX MAZOUNIE: This is a major concern,
indeed.

1063
00:57:38.650 --> 00:57:40.360
We know that leaders
are coming to Paris,

1064
00:57:40.360 --> 00:57:42.690
but we’re not sure whether climate
change will still be the one

1065
00:57:42.690 --> 00:57:44.860
and only priority on their agenda,

1066
00:57:44.860 --> 00:57:46.260
and understandably so.

1067
00:57:46.260 --> 00:57:49.390
At the same time,
as I said, climate change is a symptom,

1068
00:57:49.390 --> 00:57:52.570
and the causes and consequences
of climate change

1069
00:57:52.570 --> 00:57:55.210
are connected to all of this terrorism.

1070
00:57:55.210 --> 00:57:56.430
They’re fueling terrorism.

1071
00:57:56.430 --> 00:57:58.500
They’re fueling the social instability,

1072
00:57:58.500 --> 00:58:01.740
you know, the world of unrest
in which we live today.

1073
00:58:01.740 --> 00:58:06.180
So, to us, it makes complete sense
to discuss, you know, even more so,

1074
00:58:06.180 --> 00:58:07.640
why we need to tackle climate change,

1075
00:58:07.640 --> 00:58:09.210
why we need a strong agreement in Paris,

1076
00:58:09.210 --> 00:58:12.320
why we need strong climate action
everywhere, solidarity,

1077
00:58:12.320 --> 00:58:15.520
financial support from developed
to developing countries,

1078
00:58:15.520 --> 00:58:17.500
a vision with no fossil fuels
in the picture,

1079
00:58:17.500 --> 00:58:19.300
and a world where there are jobs

1080
00:58:19.300 --> 00:58:22.140
being created thanks to renewable energy
and energy efficiency.

1081
00:58:22.140 --> 00:58:25.020
So, all of these issues must connect
in Paris and make sure that,

1082
00:58:25.020 --> 00:58:27.620
actually, now we even
have more of a leverage

1083
00:58:27.620 --> 00:58:30.760
to get a strong climate agreement
in Paris.

1084
00:58:30.760 --> 00:58:33.560
AMY GOODMAN: Alix Mazounie,
we want to thank you for being with us.

1085
00:58:33.560 --> 00:58:36.490
You’re standing in front
of the Place de la République,

1086
00:58:36.490 --> 00:58:40.040
where people
are showing their solidarity

1087
00:58:40.040 --> 00:58:42.780
with those who died on Friday.

1088
00:58:42.780 --> 00:58:44.040
Alix Mazounie

1089
00:58:44.040 --> 00:58:59.400
is international policies coordinator
at the Climate Action Network France.