WEBVTT

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From the U.N. climate change summit
in Paris, France, this is Democracy Now!

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We are unstoppable!
Another world is possible!

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We are unstoppable!
Another world is possible!

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The text came out today.

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We gathered here,
and we took a look at it,

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and it’s completely acceptable.

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It’s going to burn our planet.

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It’s going to drown our Pacific islands.

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Tell me what you want,
what you really want!

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Climate justice!

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If not now, when?

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If not here, where?

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If not us, who?

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As hundreds of activists
say no to the draft Paris accord,

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we’ll speak with Kumi Naidoo
of Greenpeace and Asad Rehman

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of Friends of the Earth.

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And it’s International Human Rights Day.

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We’ll speak with Mary Robinson,
the former U.N. high commissioner

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for human rights
and former president of Ireland.

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Climate justice responds
to the moral argument,

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both sides of the moral argument,

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to address climate change—first of all,

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to be on the side

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of those who are suffering most
and are most affected, and secondly,

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to make sure that they’re not
left behind again when we start to move

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and start to address climate change
with climate action.

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And journalist Antonia Juhasz
on her Newsweek article,

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"Suicidal Tendencies:

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How Saudi Arabia Could Kill
the COP21 Negotiations in Paris."

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This is Climate Countdown.

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All that and more, coming up.

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Welcome to Democracy Now!,
democracynow.org,

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The War and Peace Report.

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I’m Amy Goodman.

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The gunman in the Planned
Parenthood shooting rampage

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has admitted his guilt
while expressing anti-choice views.

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At a court hearing
where he was charged with 179 counts,

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Robert Lewis Dear
acknowledged attacking the clinic,

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calling himself a "warrior
for the babies."

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Robert Lewis Dear: "Protect the babies.

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Could you add the babies that were
supposed to be aborted that day?

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Could you add that to the list?"

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The attack in Colorado Springs

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killed three people
and left nine wounded.

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Defense attorneys have suggested
they may seek an insanity defense.

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Pro-choice activists have called
for the Obama administration

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to treat the attack
as domestic terrorism.

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The FBI says the couple behind
the San Bernardino shooting massacre

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were radicalized years
before meeting in person

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and before the rise
of the self-proclaimed Islamic State.

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FBI Director James Comey
told a Senate hearing

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that the agency believes suspects
Syed Farook and Tashfeen Malik

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were inspired by foreign extremists,

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but that no evidence has emerged that
ISIL or other groups ordered the attack.

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Muslim Americans continue to report
risings acts of Islamophobia

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in the aftermath
of the Paris and San Bernardino attacks

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and increased anti-Muslim sentiment
on the campaign trail.

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A Muslim store owner
in Queens, New York,

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said he was beaten by an attacker
who reportedly said, "I kill Muslims."

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Other incidents include racist hate

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speech directed at two Muslim women
in an Austin café,

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and a group of boys
punching a Muslim girl in New York

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and pulling on her hijab.

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At a rally on Wednesday
against Donald Trump’s call

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to ban Muslims
from entering the United States,

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Khalid Latif of the Islamic Center
at New York University

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said anti-Muslim racism today
could be even worse than after 9/11.

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Khalid Latif: "As these voices
speak unchecked,

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we see a rise in anti-Muslim sentiment

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that is arguably worse
than even the backlash

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experienced immediately
after September 11th.

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They give rise and justify
to those who have in recent weeks

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have burned down and vandalized mosques
all over this country,

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who have pushed down women

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wearing headscarves
onto train tracks, shot cab drivers,

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and even in our own city
validated for three young men

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their beating
of a sixth grade Muslim girl in Harlem

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as they punched her, beat her,

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tried to rip the scarf
off of her head

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and called her ISIS
over and over and over.

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That is not OK.

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We have to be better than that."

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Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel

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has apologized for the more
than year-old police killing

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of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald.

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Emanuel spoke at a City Council hearing
on Wednesday.

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Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel: "I
am the mayor.

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As I said the other day, I own it.

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I take responsibility for what happened,

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because it happened on my watch.

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And if we’re going to fix it,

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I want you to understand
it’s my responsibility with you.

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But if we’re also going
to begin the healing process,

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the first step
in that journey is my step,

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and I’m sorry."

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Emanuel is facing increasing pressure

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to step down over the city’s handling
of the case and a potential cover-up.

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After the apology,
protesters marched in the streets

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and staged a sit-in
to demand his resignation.

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Protester 1: "Getting Rahm to resign
doesn’t mean our work is over.

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Getting Rahm to resign means our work
is just getting started."

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Protester 2: "Like it’s been said,
we got one down and two to go.

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We got two to go.

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It is sad that these people
are in the office,

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and they can’t do their job.
But you know what?

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To Rahm Emanuel,
you can fire all these people,

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but you still would not get our vote,

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'cause you're going to be out the office
by Election Day."

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This comes as Chicago has released

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a three-year-old videotape of officers
tasing,

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beating and dragging
an African-American man, Philip Coleman.

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Coleman died in police custody,

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although the city claims it was
from an allergic reaction.

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Mayor Rahm Emanuel has said
the abuse was unacceptable.

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Coleman’s family says it wants the
officers involved charged with crimes.

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The Supreme Court has heard arguments
in a case

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that could threaten affirmative action
on college campuses.

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The petitioner, Abigail Fisher,

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is a white woman
who accused the University

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of Texas-Austin of discrimination
for rejecting her.

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On Wednesday, a majority of justices

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appeared to indicate they will come down
against the University

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of Texas’ affirmative action policies,

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a stance that could ultimately
threaten similar plans at other schools.

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Justice Antonin Scalia sparked outrage
after saying that students of color

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with low grades

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are "pushed into schools
that are too fast for them"

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and may be better off

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at "a less advanced school,
a slower-track school

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where they do well."

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The Pentagon has asked the White House

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to build up a series
of U.S. military bases

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across Africa, Southwest Asia
and the Middle East.

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The New York Times reports top military
officials want the network of bases

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to serve as hubs

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"for Special Operations troops

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and intelligence operatives

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who would conduct
counterterrorism missions"

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against groups like the Islamic State,

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ensuring an "enduring" American military
presence in several regions overseas.

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The Pentagon says it’s prepared to send
military advisers and helicopters

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to help Iraq retake Ramadi,

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which was captured by ISIL in May.

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Meanwhile, Iraq has asked NATO
to pressure Turkey

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into withdrawing its forces
from northern Iraqi areas.

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Turkish forces
recently arrived near Mosul,

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but Turkey says it’s there
at the request of the Iraqi government.

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The Syrian government and rebel forces

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have completed a rare negotiated truce
in the opposition stronghold of Homs.

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Hundreds of rebels
and civilians left Homs on Wednesday

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as part of an agreement to end fighting
that devastated the city for years.

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The evacuees will be resettled in other
rebel-held areas of northern Syria.

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Doctors Without Borders
has delivered a petition

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to the White House
demanding an independent probe

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of the U.S. bombing
of the group’s hospital

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in Kunduz, Afghanistan.

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The October 3 airstrike
killed at least 30 people

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and wounded dozens more.

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At a rally
across from the White House Wednesday,

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Doctors Without Borders’ board
president, Dr. Deane Marchbein,

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paid tribute to the attack victims.

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Dr. Deane Marchbein: "More than 66,000
patients

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had been treated at our hospital
since it opened in 2011.

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Now, hundreds of thousands
are cut off from lifesaving care.

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The patients who were killed believed
that they had come to a safe place

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to be treated.

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They could not have imagined
that they would instead become targets.

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The staff were brave individuals
committed to providing healthcare

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for all regardless of ethnicity
or political persuasion."

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And the Tunisian National Dialogue

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Quartet

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has dedicated their Nobel Peace Prize
to "every single Tunisian."

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Abdessattar Ben Moussa
of the Tunisian Human Rights League,

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one of the civil society groups
that makes up the quartet,

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spoke on Wednesday
before today’s award ceremony.

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Abdessattar Ben Moussa: "We would like
to thank the Norwegian Nobel Committee

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for having bestowed upon us,

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the quartet,
this very prestigious prize.

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It is a prize awarded
to every single Tunisian,

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to the people who lost martyrs.

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It is awarded in memory
of all the martyrs

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who sacrificed their blood
in service of liberty.

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It comes in recognition
of the major sacrifice paid in blood

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by Chokri Belaid and Mohamed Brahmi."

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The Nobel Committee says the prize

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seeks to honor
the quartet’s contribution

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to building a pluralistic democracy

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after the 2011 Tunisian revolution,

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which toppled Tunisia’s
longtime U.S.-backed dictator.

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And those are some of the headlines
this is Democracy Now,

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Democracynow.org,
the War and Peace Report.

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I’m Amy Goodman.

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AMY GOODMAN: We’re broadcasting
from the U.N. climate change summit

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in Paris, France.

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It’s COP21.

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And it’s International Human Rights Day.

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It commemorates the day
on which the United Nations

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General Assembly
adopted the Universal Declaration

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of Human Rights in 1948.

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Earlier today,

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the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded
to Tunisia’s National Dialogue Quartet

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for helping achieve
a peaceful transition to democracy

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in their own country.

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Well, today, we begin the show

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looking at climate change
as a human rights issue.

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Here at the talks, negotiators

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have been debating how human rights
should be addressed in the Paris accord.

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The United States, Norway

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and Saudi Arabia have been criticized
for seeking to eliminate key references

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to human rights in the text.

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We’re now joined
by former Irish President Mary Robinson.

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She is also the former U.N.
high commissioner for human rights.

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In 2010, she set up the Mary Robinson
Foundation–Climate Justice.

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President Robinson,
welcome back to Democracy Now!

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It’s great to have you with us.

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MARY ROBINSON: Thank you, Amy. And happy
International Human Rights Day.

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AMY GOODMAN: So talk
about how human rights

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relates to climate change
and climate justice.

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MARY ROBINSON: Human rights
absolutely relate to climate change,

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because climate change is undermining
human rights all over the world

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and undermining people’s livelihoods,

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undermining people’s health,

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forcing people to leave their homes
because of drought or flooding—

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often, actually,

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also causing them loss of life.

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It is having a very negative impact.

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And that’s been recognized
by the Human Rights Council.

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So, even if there was nothing
in this agreement—

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which I hope there will be—

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about human rights, human rights

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is there anyway as very, very central
to our approach to climate change.

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To me, it’s the biggest human
rights issue in the world.

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AMY GOODMAN: So, how did you come
to this issue of climate justice?

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You didn’t really raise it,
certainly didn’t make it a centerpiece,

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when you were the U.N. high commissioner
for human rights.

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MARY ROBINSON: And I’ve been very open
and very modest about that.

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No, I didn’t.
It wasn’t front of my mind,

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because it was being dealt with
in another part of the U.N.

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and—you know,

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a little bit of a silo approach.

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And then I started to work
on economic and social rights in Africa.

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And everywhere I went, people said, "Oh,
but things are so much worse."

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And I realized they meant
the rainy seasons

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weren’t coming in Liberia
the way they used to,

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and there was long periods
of drought and flash flooding

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in northern Uganda,

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which my friend Constance Okollet
would talk about.

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But everywhere I went,

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people saw something that they
had never seen before, you know,

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and there’s a long oral tradition,
so that’s more than 200 years,

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because people pass stories on.

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And it was so much worse—

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climate shocks, climate disruption.

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I saw it in Bangladesh
when I went there.

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And I realized,
when I read the science,

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that we’re running out of time,

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that actually, as has been
said often now during this year,

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we’re the first generation

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to fully understand the dangers
of climate change

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and the last generation
with time to do something about it.

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And that time is now here in Paris.

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AMY GOODMAN: Now, you were a president.

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You were the president of Ireland.

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We saw the big family photo
the first two days of this COP,

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where you had more
than a hundred world leaders,

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about 130 world leaders,

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standing together, the largest gathering

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of world leaders
in the history of the world.

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There were not many women.

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Can you talk about why that matters?

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MARY ROBINSON: It matters hugely that we
have more women in leadership roles.

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And leadership happens at all levels,

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but it’s good
if you have top leaders

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because they influence the policy
of their country

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and they influence priorities.

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They decide what will be important as,

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you know, a priority of the country.

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There are women and supportive men
who have been working for years,

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in the climate context,

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to try to ensure that there—

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that human rights and gender equality

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are fully recognized,

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because they are important
to good climate policy.

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AMY GOODMAN: What does gender equality
have to do with climate change?

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MARY ROBINSON: Oh, there are huge gender
impacts of climate, huge impacts.

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If you undermine poor livelihoods,
who has to pick up the pieces?

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Who has to put food on the table?

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Who has to go further
in drought for firewood?

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The agents of—

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those who are trying
to adapt and be resilient,

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the vast majority of farmers
in the developed world, are women.

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So, it is usually important that
the gender dimensions are recognized,

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both the fact
that women are more vulnerable,

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because even in natural disasters

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they are four times
more likely to die than men—14 times,

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because they care about their children
and try to hug them,

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they can’t run very fast
in long clothes—

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a whole variety of reasons.

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AMY GOODMAN: I want to ask
you a question.

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On Wednesday, there was a major protest

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here last night.
MARY ROBINSON: Yes.

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AMY GOODMAN: Democracy Now!’s
Amy Littlefield got a chance

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to speak afterwards with Ashfaq Khalfan,

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director of the law and policy program
at Amnesty International.

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He talked about the status
of human rights

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in the current draft
of the climate accord.

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ASHFAQ KHALFAN: At the moment,
they are bracketed.

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We don’t know if states
are going to accept them,

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so there’s still a debate
over whether to keep them in the part

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of the text where it’s
about how they’re applied throughout.

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We’re a bit worried
because gender equality

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has just been dropped
from the same provision,

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and we think that that was a trade-off,

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where some states
agreed to drop gender equality

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in order to drop the reference
to the rights of occupied—

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peoples living under occupation.

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AMY LITTLEFIELD: Could you explain
which states you’re talking about?

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ASHFAQ KHALFAN: Yes. So,

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Saudi Arabia is one country
that we are talking about,

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which opposed—

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which insisted there must be language
about the rights of people

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under occupation.

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The United States
and other countries oppose that.

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And as a result, they traded,

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where the gender equality
was taken out to make the Saudis happy

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and the rights of occupied people
was taken out to keep the United States

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and other states happy.

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AMY GOODMAN: So, there you have
Ashfaq Khalfan of Amnesty International.

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President Robinson, your response?

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MARY ROBINSON: Broadly,
I agree with him.

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Neither human rights nor gender equality
are secure in the text.

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Human rights is still
in the operative art,

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which is very important,
but it’s in brackets and could go.

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AMY GOODMAN: And what does brackets
mean, for laypeople?

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MARY ROBINSON: Brackets means
that it’s not agreed.

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If it’s not in the brackets,
then that’s text that has been agreed.

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There are a lot of brackets
still in this process.

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AMY GOODMAN: Hundreds.
MARY ROBINSON: Well,

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and gender equality,
for reasons we don’t understand,

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was dropped out of that.

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It was protection of human rights
and promotion of gender equality.

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And obviously I want both, because
they’re both extremely important. And—

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AMY GOODMAN: So it sounds
like he’s saying there was a trade-off:

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Saudi Arabia
didn’t want gender equality;

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the United States didn’t want reference
to occupied people.

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MARY ROBINSON: Well, yeah, maybe.

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There are a lot
of negotiations going on.

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I think there are a lot of countries
who want gender equality back in,

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so we’re not at the endgame yet.

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And I think it’s more important
that we see wide support.

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I’ve just come from a roomful of people,

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including a number
of ministers and delegates,

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00:17:13.420 --> 00:17:17.220
who are supportive of both human rights
and gender equality.

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They see them as being very much part

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of the core principles
of the United Nations.

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And the reason we want this language
in is not just to see these words.

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The reason we want the language is,

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is the values
that are behind those words

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and the importance
for good climate policy.

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We’ve made mistakes.

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Do you remember the corn for ethanol
driving up food prices for poor people?

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We’ve had dams—
and we’re still having them—

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that displaced people
with poor land rights.

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And, you know, there’s going
to be a rush for renewable energy.

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And unless we make sure
it’s done responsibly and in accordance

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with human rights principles,

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we could have more people affected
by how we take action on climate,

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who are already suffering
from climate change.

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AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask you
about the divestment movement.

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MARY ROBINSON: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: As president of Ireland,

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you were active on divesting
from South Africa, the apartheid regime.

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There’s this whole movement
around the world,

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whether in foundations—

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and you have a foundation—

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whether in companies, universities,

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to divest from fossil fuels.

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MARY ROBINSON: Well, what I always say—

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I support the movement,

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but I say divest from fossil fuels
and invest in renewable energy,

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because otherwise you’re not moving
that equation fast enough.

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We need more investment
in renewable energy and in R&D,

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and we definitely need countries
and companies to get out of coal.

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I mean, that’s the worst.

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And also we need to leave two-thirds
of the fossil fuel in the ground.

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We have a paper
of my foundation, "Zero Carbon,

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00:18:42.670 --> 00:18:45.010
Zero Poverty the Climate Justice Way."

387
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And we say we have to get out of carbon

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by 2050.

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00:18:48.820 --> 00:18:51.020
But the interesting thing,
just to show you that—

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there’s a business group here

391
00:18:52.620 --> 00:18:55.410
and a lot of business here
that is more progressive.

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And there’s a B Team,

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which I am linked to through my—

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the fact that I’m an elder,

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you know, getting on, elder,
brought together by Nelson Mandela.

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AMY GOODMAN: You were part
of the Council of Elders

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00:19:05.120 --> 00:19:07.370
that President Mandela gathered.
MARY ROBINSON: Yes, exactly, yeah.

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00:19:07.370 --> 00:19:11.570
And The B Team is business leaders
who are saying, "We

399
00:19:11.570 --> 00:19:16.420
want net zero greenhouse gas emissions
by 2050," you know,

400
00:19:16.420 --> 00:19:19.360
stronger than we’re likely to see
in the text here, unfortunately.

401
00:19:19.360 --> 00:19:23.730
So, business is saying, "Please, give us
the—give us a mandate.

402
00:19:23.730 --> 00:19:25.460
Give us a challenge, if you like.

403
00:19:25.460 --> 00:19:29.650
Make us go faster in getting
out of fossil fuel.

404
00:19:29.650 --> 00:19:31.420
Take away the subsidies on fossil fuel.

405
00:19:31.420 --> 00:19:32.710
Put a price on carbon."

406
00:19:32.710 --> 00:19:33.850
That’s what business is saying,

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00:19:33.850 --> 00:19:35.130
as well as civil society.

408
00:19:35.130 --> 00:19:36.450
AMY GOODMAN: President Mary Robinson,

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00:19:36.450 --> 00:19:41.600
you have said that climate change
will lead to further radicalization.

410
00:19:41.600 --> 00:19:43.550
What do you mean?
MARY ROBINSON: Well, you know,

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if you’re in a situation
where you’re already isolated

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and in poverty,

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00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:51.690
and then you have the buffeting
or displacement of climate change—

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because it will be a driver of
more and more people becoming displaced—

415
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you know, it’s another reason

416
00:19:57.250 --> 00:20:01.540
to feel totally frustrated
with the inequities in the world.

417
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And young people can be influenced,
as we know, to be radicalized,

418
00:20:04.730 --> 00:20:06.030
to become very frustrated,

419
00:20:06.030 --> 00:20:08.990
just as young people
are wonderful in an arena like this.

420
00:20:08.990 --> 00:20:11.070
We’ve had young girls
and other young people

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00:20:11.070 --> 00:20:13.730
who are rallying to make sure
that we do the right thing.

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00:20:13.730 --> 00:20:15.490
But if we don’t, you know,

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if people feel hopeless and jobless,

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00:20:18.570 --> 00:20:20.490
and then it’s made worse
through climate change,

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00:20:20.490 --> 00:20:22.990
which they know is human-induced now—

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I mean, it’s the lifestyles
of rich countries that have caused this—

427
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so, yes, it can lead to radicalization.

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AMY GOODMAN: We’re going
to talk more about loss and damage,

429
00:20:31.360 --> 00:20:34.200
but there’s a great deal
of anger among the LDCs,

430
00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:35.400
the least developed countries,

431
00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:39.260
and the developing countries
around the issue of responsibility—

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not just charity,

433
00:20:41.580 --> 00:20:42.800
like help a country—
MARY ROBINSON: Yeah.

434
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AMY GOODMAN: —that is suffering terribly
from climate change,

435
00:20:45.650 --> 00:20:48.380
but that the most developed countries—

436
00:20:48.380 --> 00:20:50.960
the historically biggest emitter,
the United States;

437
00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:53.140
the largest emitter now, China—

438
00:20:53.140 --> 00:20:59.820
owe money and support to the countries
that are suffering from their excess.

439
00:21:00.610 --> 00:21:04.680
MARY ROBINSON: Certainly,
that whole issue of money,

440
00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:07.360
of climate finance, is a key issue,

441
00:21:07.360 --> 00:21:09.080
and it’s still not resolved.

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00:21:09.080 --> 00:21:12.120
And I feel that we don’t talk about it
in the right way.

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00:21:12.120 --> 00:21:16.300
We talk about climate finance
as if it was charity for poor countries

444
00:21:16.300 --> 00:21:21.110
that have to somehow now make changes
and adapt and grow, without emissions,

445
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into renewable energy.

446
00:21:22.300 --> 00:21:25.320
But in fact—in fact,
what we should be saying is,

447
00:21:25.320 --> 00:21:29.170
climate finance is a means
to a safe world for all of us.

448
00:21:29.170 --> 00:21:31.210
And we should be looking at it
from the point

449
00:21:31.210 --> 00:21:35.660
of view of how do we encourage India,
for example,

450
00:21:35.660 --> 00:21:38.030
that is going solar very dramatically,

451
00:21:38.030 --> 00:21:41.180
but it’s also saying
we have to also invest in coal.

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00:21:41.180 --> 00:21:45.040
If China—if India
invests in a large amount of coal,

453
00:21:45.040 --> 00:21:46.670
that’s 30 or 40 years.

454
00:21:46.670 --> 00:21:47.790
It will be too late.

455
00:21:47.790 --> 00:21:51.540
It’s in our interests
to say to countries like India

456
00:21:51.540 --> 00:21:53.260
and African countries,

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00:21:53.260 --> 00:21:56.490
countries that have to develop and build
their infrastructure, "Let us help you,

458
00:21:56.490 --> 00:21:59.860
because it’s in our interest, too,"
and share the technology

459
00:22:00.390 --> 00:22:02.420
and bring in the private investment.

460
00:22:02.420 --> 00:22:06.010
We need the $100 billion a year by 2020

461
00:22:06.010 --> 00:22:09.360
as a leverage for trillions
into developing countries,

462
00:22:09.360 --> 00:22:13.030
to help them leapfrog
into the renewable energy.

463
00:22:13.030 --> 00:22:14.280
AMY GOODMAN: I have a final question.

464
00:22:14.280 --> 00:22:17.450
We just came back from Calais,
about an hour and a half from here,

465
00:22:17.450 --> 00:22:20.440
the largest refugee camp in France.
MARY ROBINSON: Yeah, yeah.

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00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:23.480
AMY GOODMAN: Thousands
of people from war-torn nations,

467
00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:27.620
from Syria,
Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan,

468
00:22:27.620 --> 00:22:30.070
who are trying to get into Britain,

469
00:22:30.070 --> 00:22:31.610
they can’t.

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00:22:31.610 --> 00:22:34.960
I wanted to ask you about what you
feel should happen with Ireland—

471
00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:36.110
it’s been criticized;

472
00:22:36.110 --> 00:22:39.870
a group of NGOs are saying
22,000 refugees should be allowed in—

473
00:22:40.690 --> 00:22:41.990
what you think should happen.

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00:22:41.990 --> 00:22:44.270
These people are fleeing war.

475
00:22:44.790 --> 00:22:47.600
MARY ROBINSON: I am more constrained
talking about Ireland

476
00:22:47.600 --> 00:22:48.850
as a former president.

477
00:22:48.850 --> 00:22:51.780
I’m not at all constrained
talking about the migrant situation.

478
00:22:51.780 --> 00:22:52.850
It really—

479
00:22:52.850 --> 00:22:57.010
I feel it is shameful that so many have
died coming across the Mediterranean,

480
00:22:57.010 --> 00:22:59.300
that so many
live in terrible conditions,

481
00:22:59.300 --> 00:23:00.840
because they have human rights.

482
00:23:00.840 --> 00:23:03.790
They have the right
to the dignity of moving.

483
00:23:03.790 --> 00:23:06.800
And they don’t have a right
to go to any particular country.

484
00:23:06.800 --> 00:23:12.840
That’s the trouble. But refugees
have rights under the Refugee Convention

485
00:23:12.840 --> 00:23:14.670
and the 1967 Protocol,

486
00:23:14.670 --> 00:23:17.280
and those rights
are not being respected at the moment.

487
00:23:17.280 --> 00:23:18.590
So we need more pressure.

488
00:23:18.590 --> 00:23:20.910
I’m glad that Angela Merkel
has got recognition

489
00:23:20.910 --> 00:23:22.340
for what she was doing on migrants,

490
00:23:22.340 --> 00:23:25.330
because we have to have leadership
in different countries.

491
00:23:25.330 --> 00:23:29.060
And the reality
is that without that leadership,

492
00:23:29.820 --> 00:23:34.360
the populist, far-right representation
in different countries will, you know,

493
00:23:34.360 --> 00:23:35.550
walk all over this.

494
00:23:35.550 --> 00:23:37.090
So we need very clear,

495
00:23:37.090 --> 00:23:41.450
principled leadership based on human
rights and based on gender equality.

496
00:23:41.450 --> 00:23:42.930
AMY GOODMAN: Do you have
any presidential advice

497
00:23:42.930 --> 00:23:46.860
for a Republican presidential candidate
in the United States, Donald Trump,

498
00:23:46.860 --> 00:23:49.700
who says, "Don’t let Muslims
into the United States"?

499
00:23:49.700 --> 00:23:52.540
MARY ROBINSON: I’m glad
that he is being rightly outraged

500
00:23:52.540 --> 00:23:53.630
and condemned for that,

501
00:23:53.630 --> 00:23:55.610
and that even people in Britain
don’t want him to visit.

502
00:23:55.610 --> 00:23:56.780
And I think—you know,

503
00:23:56.780 --> 00:24:00.370
I think the world reaction
may well be enough to bring home

504
00:24:00.370 --> 00:24:02.920
that he is not a suitable person
to be president of the United States.

505
00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:04.240
He’s not qualified.

506
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:08.230
He’s saying terrible,
racist, exaggerated things

507
00:24:08.230 --> 00:24:09.350
just to get publicity.

508
00:24:10.340 --> 00:24:13.710
AMY GOODMAN: Former president
of Ireland, Mary Robinson.

509
00:24:13.710 --> 00:24:17.640
She now runs the Mary Robinson
Foundation–Climate Justice

510
00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:21.710
and is the former U.N. high commissioner
for human rights,

511
00:24:21.710 --> 00:24:24.340
on this International Human Rights Day.

512
00:24:24.340 --> 00:24:29.880
When we come back, we go to the protest,
within the COP here,

513
00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:35.570
of hundreds of people demanding
a just Paris accord. Stay with us.

514
00:24:35.570 --> 00:24:45.860
[break]

515
00:24:45.860 --> 00:24:48.770
AMY GOODMAN: Ta’Kaiya Blaney,

516
00:24:50.630 --> 00:25:58.460
a 14-year-old
from the Sliammon First Nation

517
00:25:58.460 --> 00:26:00.610
in Canada, singing her song,

518
00:26:00.610 --> 00:26:01.930
"Turn the World Around,

519
00:26:01.930 --> 00:26:05.600
" at the International Rights of Nature
Tribunal here in Paris on Saturday.

520
00:26:05.600 --> 00:26:09.620
You can go to democracynow.org
to see her full performance.

521
00:26:09.620 --> 00:26:11.250
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!,

522
00:26:11.250 --> 00:26:13.600
democracynow.org,
The War and Peace Report.

523
00:26:13.600 --> 00:26:17.580
We’re broadcasting live from the COP21
here in Paris, France.

524
00:26:17.580 --> 00:26:20.160
We’ve entered the final stretch
of negotiations

525
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:22.530
at the U.N. climate change summit

526
00:26:22.530 --> 00:26:26.030
as representatives
from nearly 200 countries

527
00:26:26.030 --> 00:26:29.060
attempt to reach a final deal
before the weekend.

528
00:26:29.060 --> 00:26:32.540
On Wednesday,
a near-final draft was released.

529
00:26:32.540 --> 00:26:36.870
The text, pared down to 29 pages
from a 43-page document,

530
00:26:36.870 --> 00:26:40.370
contains about a hundred decisions
still left to be made,

531
00:26:40.370 --> 00:26:42.740
including the role
that wealthy and more advanced

532
00:26:42.740 --> 00:26:46.160
developing countries should play
in helping vulnerable nations

533
00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:48.250
cope with the impacts of climate change.

534
00:26:48.250 --> 00:26:50.690
Civil society groups
attending the summit

535
00:26:50.690 --> 00:26:53.170
erupted in protest over the draft,

536
00:26:53.170 --> 00:26:57.510
saying it will not go far enough
to prevent catastrophic global warming.

537
00:26:57.510 --> 00:27:01.050
Activists continue to demand protections
for indigenous rights

538
00:27:01.050 --> 00:27:03.090
and gender equality within the accord,

539
00:27:03.090 --> 00:27:06.360
and emissions reductions to keep
the increase in global temperatures

540
00:27:06.360 --> 00:27:09.120
to less than 1.5 degrees Celsius,

541
00:27:09.120 --> 00:27:13.030
or 2.7 degrees Fahrenheit,
over pre-industrial levels.

542
00:27:13.030 --> 00:27:15.220
After the draft text emerged,

543
00:27:15.220 --> 00:27:18.060
climate activists
staged the largest protest

544
00:27:18.060 --> 00:27:20.980
to date inside the heavily fortified
Paris summit.

545
00:27:20.980 --> 00:27:23.480
Hundreds converged
around an installation

546
00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:28.520
of colorful acrylic animal sculptures
near the main plenary halls,

547
00:27:28.520 --> 00:27:29.690
where they staged a sit-in.

548
00:27:29.690 --> 00:27:33.610
Then they marched outside
onto the main walkway inside the COP,

549
00:27:33.610 --> 00:27:37.080
called the Champs-Élysées
after the main boulevard here in Paris,

550
00:27:37.080 --> 00:27:39.640
where they surrounded a replica
of the Eiffel Tower

551
00:27:39.640 --> 00:27:42.980
made from red bistro chairs
of the same era.

552
00:27:42.980 --> 00:27:46.340
There, they posted dozens of notes
with messages to negotiators—

553
00:27:46.340 --> 00:27:49.360
among them, "Keep Your Promises"
and "The World Demands Better."

554
00:27:49.360 --> 00:27:51.110
Participants included Bill McKibben,

555
00:27:51.110 --> 00:27:52.550
co-founder of 350.org;

556
00:27:52.550 --> 00:27:55.040
Kumi Naidoo, executive director
of Greenpeace International;

557
00:27:55.040 --> 00:27:56.690
and Asad Rehman of Friends of the Earth.

558
00:27:56.690 --> 00:28:00.630
Democracy Now! was there
as Dipti Bhatnagar of Friends

559
00:28:00.630 --> 00:28:03.960
of the Earth International
kicked off the protest.

560
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:04.960
DIPTI BHATNAGAR: What do we want?
PROTESTERS: Climate justice!

561
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:07.400
DIPTI BHATNAGAR: What do we want?
PROTESTERS: Climate justice!

562
00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:10.220
DIPTI BHATNAGAR: When we want it?
PROTESTERS: Now!

563
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:12.670
DIPTI BHATNAGAR: The text
came out today.

564
00:28:12.670 --> 00:28:15.230
We gathered here,
and we took a look at it,

565
00:28:15.230 --> 00:28:16.700
and it’s completely acceptable.

566
00:28:16.700 --> 00:28:18.000
It’s going to burn our planet.

567
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:19.940
It’s going to drown our Pacific islands.

568
00:28:19.940 --> 00:28:23.910
So we got together here to make a noise
to say this is unacceptable.

569
00:28:23.910 --> 00:28:25.140
Hello, people!

570
00:28:25.140 --> 00:28:26.660
We need to start sitting.

571
00:28:26.660 --> 00:28:27.940
The action is a sit-in.

572
00:28:27.940 --> 00:28:29.350
Can we start sitting down?

573
00:28:29.350 --> 00:28:30.600
ADRIANO CAMPOLINA: 
[echoed by the people’s mic] Mic check!

574
00:28:31.240 --> 00:28:32.490
Mic check!

575
00:28:34.270 --> 00:28:40.670
Today, our leaders failed us again.

576
00:28:42.490 --> 00:28:48.630
But we, the people,
will not fail our people.

577
00:28:48.630 --> 00:28:52.920
PROTESTERS: We are unstoppable!
Another world is possible!

578
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:53.950
We are unstoppable!
Another world is possible!

579
00:28:53.950 --> 00:28:54.100
BILL McKIBBEN: 
[echoed by the people’s mic]

580
00:28:54.100 --> 00:28:55.460
This week’s news:

581
00:28:56.760 --> 00:28:58.680
dead people in Chennai,

582
00:29:00.560 --> 00:29:04.390
record floods in the U.K.,
record floods in Norway,

583
00:29:04.390 --> 00:29:07.100
record floods
on the West Coast of the U.S.,

584
00:29:07.100 --> 00:29:08.980
record floods in the Maldives.

585
00:29:08.980 --> 00:29:10.940
We have no time to waste.

586
00:29:10.940 --> 00:29:12.490
We need action now.

587
00:29:12.490 --> 00:29:14.120
And we know who’s blocking it:

588
00:29:14.120 --> 00:29:16.780
the biggest fossil fuel companies
on Earth.

589
00:29:16.780 --> 00:29:18.990
We know that Exxon lied.

590
00:29:18.990 --> 00:29:22.020
We know that because they lied,
people died.

591
00:29:22.020 --> 00:29:23.920
We’re not going to take it anymore.

592
00:29:25.690 --> 00:29:27.650
TITI AKOSA: It’s about climate justice.

593
00:29:27.650 --> 00:29:30.120
It’s about justice for women.

594
00:29:30.120 --> 00:29:32.690
It’s about justice
for the whole of humanity.

595
00:29:32.690 --> 00:29:37.070
If we cannot commit
to an atmospheric temperature

596
00:29:37.760 --> 00:29:40.240
that is well below 1.5 degrees,

597
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:41.880
then we have not started at all.

598
00:29:42.810 --> 00:29:44.120
FLAVIA CHERRY: My name is Flavia Cherry.

599
00:29:44.120 --> 00:29:45.660
I’m from Saint Lucia.

600
00:29:45.660 --> 00:29:49.360
And for us in the Caribbean,
this is very critical for us.

601
00:29:49.360 --> 00:29:51.290
It really is a matter of life and death.

602
00:29:51.290 --> 00:29:53.790
We have very small, low-lying islands,

603
00:29:53.790 --> 00:29:57.290
and we are already beginning to see
some very dramatic impacts

604
00:29:57.290 --> 00:29:58.480
from climate change.

605
00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:00.640
So, for us,
as citizens of the Caribbean,

606
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:05.590
this is simply life and death.

607
00:30:05.590 --> 00:30:06.690
PROTESTER 1: [singing]

608
00:30:06.690 --> 00:30:10.100
We’re going to calm this crisis down.

609
00:30:10.100 --> 00:30:13.590
We hear the voice
of the great-granddaughter.

610
00:30:13.590 --> 00:30:16.100
MAJANDRA RODRIGUEZ: My name is Majandra,

611
00:30:16.100 --> 00:30:17.790
and I come from Peru.

612
00:30:21.780 --> 00:30:24.730
We are part
of the most vulnerable countries

613
00:30:24.730 --> 00:30:27.110
to the impacts of climate change.

614
00:30:27.110 --> 00:30:30.770
We are not talking about 1.5 to survive;

615
00:30:30.770 --> 00:30:37.410
we are talking about 1.5
to maybe have a chance at surviving,

616
00:30:37.410 --> 00:30:40.740
because we are already dying.

617
00:30:40.740 --> 00:30:49.450
We are here to demand
that every single country take action.

618
00:30:49.450 --> 00:30:55.850
However, some countries
need to take more action,

619
00:30:55.850 --> 00:31:00.700
because they have polluted
our atmosphere for 200 years,

620
00:31:00.700 --> 00:31:04.620
and their wealth
is based upon our poverty.

621
00:31:05.430 --> 00:31:07.130
PROTESTER 2: Tell me what you want,
what you really want!

622
00:31:07.130 --> 00:31:08.540
PROTESTERS: Climate justice!

623
00:31:08.540 --> 00:31:12.210
PROTESTER 2: Tell me what you need,
what you really need!

624
00:31:12.210 --> 00:31:14.070
PROTESTERS: Climate justice!
PRERNA BOMZAN: We need emission cuts

625
00:31:14.070 --> 00:31:15.790
by the developed countries.

626
00:31:15.790 --> 00:31:17.640
We need finance.

627
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:19.860
We need technology transfer.

628
00:31:19.860 --> 00:31:23.710
We need the developed countries
to do their fair share now.

629
00:31:27.950 --> 00:31:29.840
AUGUSTINE BANFAR NJAMNSHI: We thank
our leaders.

630
00:31:29.840 --> 00:31:32.840
We thank them for the good speeches.

631
00:31:33.530 --> 00:31:35.400
But we want to assure them,

632
00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:39.330
we want to tell them,
good speeches without action

633
00:31:39.330 --> 00:31:43.310
will not put food on the table
of the most vulnerable.

634
00:31:43.310 --> 00:31:46.320
Good speeches
will not stop the droughts.

635
00:31:46.320 --> 00:31:50.040
Good speeches without action
will not stop the floods.

636
00:31:50.040 --> 00:31:55.040
Let them tell us what the poor people
have done to merit this situation.

637
00:31:55.040 --> 00:31:56.840
We want climate finance.

638
00:31:56.840 --> 00:31:58.560
We don’t want loans.

639
00:31:58.560 --> 00:32:03.320
Do you put fire on somebody’s house
and give them a loan to rebuild it?

640
00:32:03.320 --> 00:32:05.260
This will be injustice,

641
00:32:05.260 --> 00:32:07.670
and this injustice is already happening.

642
00:32:07.670 --> 00:32:09.960
People in Africa are losing their farms.

643
00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:12.080
Pastoralists are losing their animals.

644
00:32:12.080 --> 00:32:14.570
Did they do anything to deserve this?

645
00:32:14.570 --> 00:32:16.740
We’re not begging for aid.

646
00:32:16.740 --> 00:32:20.390
We need compensation for the damages

647
00:32:20.390 --> 00:32:24.190
that have been caused
and will continue to aggravate.

648
00:32:24.190 --> 00:32:25.310
Remember,

649
00:32:25.310 --> 00:32:27.860
if there is injustice anywhere,

650
00:32:27.860 --> 00:32:30.270
it is a threat to justice everywhere.

651
00:32:30.270 --> 00:32:32.540
That is Martin Luther King.

652
00:32:32.540 --> 00:32:36.940
PROTESTERS: We are unstoppable!
Another world is possible!

653
00:32:36.940 --> 00:32:37.920
We are unstoppable!
Another world is possible!

654
00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:42.870
KUMI NAIDOO: Would there have been
such a lack of urgency if London, Paris,

655
00:32:42.870 --> 00:32:46.030
Washington
were under the same threat?

656
00:32:46.030 --> 00:32:49.120
How long can we wait?

657
00:32:49.120 --> 00:32:51.240
DIPTI BHATNAGAR: 
[echoed by the people’s mic] Mic check!

658
00:32:52.280 --> 00:32:58.980
The security is here to send us away.

659
00:32:58.980 --> 00:32:59.460
PROTESTER 3: 
[echoed by the people’s mic]

660
00:32:59.460 --> 00:33:08.830
In those halls, they are not deciding
how to tackle climate change.

661
00:33:11.060 --> 00:33:17.340
They are deciding
who lives and who dies.

662
00:33:18.560 --> 00:33:20.290
We will not let them decide!

663
00:33:20.290 --> 00:33:21.480
PROTESTERS: We are unstoppable!

664
00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:22.540
Another world is possible!
We are unstoppable!

665
00:33:22.540 --> 00:33:24.090
Another world is possible!

666
00:33:24.090 --> 00:33:34.360
JAMIE HENN: My name is Jamie Henn.

667
00:33:34.360 --> 00:33:35.980
I’m with 350.org.

668
00:33:35.980 --> 00:33:37.450
And hundreds—I don’t know,

669
00:33:37.450 --> 00:33:38.520
it seems almost like a thousand—

670
00:33:38.520 --> 00:33:40.650
people are marching out of the—one

671
00:33:40.650 --> 00:33:42.000
of the main rooms
of the conference center here,

672
00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:44.840
headed down the main pathway of COP21,

673
00:33:44.840 --> 00:33:48.240
to really show that civil society
is mobilizing in the last 48 hours.

674
00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:49.570
The latest draft text came out,

675
00:33:49.570 --> 00:33:52.790
and there’s still everything
left to fight for here in Paris

676
00:33:52.790 --> 00:33:54.300
to make sure
that we get the strong signal

677
00:33:54.300 --> 00:33:55.820
that we’re looking for out of the talks.

678
00:33:55.820 --> 00:33:57.370
CARMEN CAPRILES: My name
is Carmen Capriles.

679
00:33:57.370 --> 00:34:00.970
I am the general coordinator
of Reacción Climática from Bolivia.

680
00:34:00.970 --> 00:34:03.230
In the draft that came,
one of the issues

681
00:34:03.230 --> 00:34:07.940
that we are most worried about is that
it doesn’t address gender inequalities.

682
00:34:07.940 --> 00:34:11.450
MARIA NAILEVU: For women,
we are the heartbeat of every household.

683
00:34:11.450 --> 00:34:14.190
We are the ones
that worries about our daily living.

684
00:34:14.190 --> 00:34:17.770
We are the ones
that sustain our life at home.

685
00:34:17.770 --> 00:34:19.600
So it doubles our workload.

686
00:34:19.600 --> 00:34:22.200
Where we used to find food
is no longer there.

687
00:34:22.200 --> 00:34:24.530
Where we used to find the resources
is no longer there.

688
00:34:24.530 --> 00:34:27.630
So, it has contributed a lot
of workload on women,

689
00:34:27.630 --> 00:34:29.320
fast making them more vulnerable.

690
00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:31.050
My name is Maria Nailevu.

691
00:34:31.050 --> 00:34:32.350
I am from Fiji.

692
00:34:32.350 --> 00:34:34.520
I’m a part of DIVA for Equality.

693
00:34:34.520 --> 00:34:36.610
I’m representing women from the Pacific.

694
00:34:36.610 --> 00:34:39.960
ABEER AL BUTMEH: I’m Abeer Al Butmeh
from Friends of the Earth Palestine.

695
00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:41.790
Palestine is affected by climate change,

696
00:34:41.790 --> 00:34:43.930
and it’s a clear affected
by climate change—

697
00:34:43.930 --> 00:34:46.710
a water shortage and a high temperature

698
00:34:46.710 --> 00:34:50.850
during summer and the low temperature
during summer—during the winter.

699
00:34:50.850 --> 00:34:51.890
The Israeli occupation

700
00:34:51.890 --> 00:34:56.430
increases the situation worse, because
we cannot manage our water resources.

701
00:34:56.430 --> 00:34:59.050
MAJANDRA RODRIGUEZ: My name is Majandra
Rodriguez, and I come from Lima, Peru.

702
00:34:59.050 --> 00:35:01.640
Peru is one of the most
vulnerable countries to climate change.

703
00:35:01.640 --> 00:35:03.520
We are extremely biodiverse.

704
00:35:03.520 --> 00:35:07.190
Most of our territory
is covered by the Amazon rainforest.

705
00:35:07.190 --> 00:35:09.630
The Amazon rainforest
is extremely fragile.

706
00:35:09.630 --> 00:35:11.200
It’s extremely interdependent,

707
00:35:11.200 --> 00:35:13.860
and so any change
in any aspect of that environment

708
00:35:13.860 --> 00:35:15.630
affects the entire ecosystem.

709
00:35:15.630 --> 00:35:19.090
So we have to begin to recognize
that we aren’t separate from nature,

710
00:35:19.090 --> 00:35:20.290
we depend on nature.

711
00:35:20.290 --> 00:35:22.840
And, you know,
it’s the butterfly effect.

712
00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:24.980
I mean, a change
in the Amazon rainforest

713
00:35:24.980 --> 00:35:27.700
in one part of the country
at a very basic level—

714
00:35:27.700 --> 00:35:28.830
a change in precipitation,

715
00:35:28.830 --> 00:35:31.040
change in temperature levels,
change in droughts,

716
00:35:31.040 --> 00:35:34.540
etc.—can have drastic impacts
on other parts of the world.

717
00:35:34.540 --> 00:35:35.590
YEB SAÑO: My name is Yeb Saño,

718
00:35:35.590 --> 00:35:38.240
and I am the former chief negotiator
of the Philippines.

719
00:35:38.240 --> 00:35:40.270
I am now leader
of the People’s Pilgrimage.

720
00:35:40.270 --> 00:35:44.610
This action demonstrates that despite
the fact that we have been excluded—

721
00:35:44.610 --> 00:35:46.620
our voices and a lot of our issues

722
00:35:46.620 --> 00:35:49.040
and things

723
00:35:49.040 --> 00:35:52.270
that we care about have not been
included in this draft text—

724
00:35:52.270 --> 00:35:53.660
we will continue our journey.

725
00:35:53.660 --> 00:35:55.790
We will continue standing up
for what is right.

726
00:35:55.790 --> 00:35:59.050
And beyond Paris, all of us will be
going back to our communities,

727
00:35:59.050 --> 00:36:02.630
building resilient communities
who can stand up,

728
00:36:02.630 --> 00:36:05.110
produce food on our own

729
00:36:05.110 --> 00:36:08.070
and build renewables,
clean energy in our communities.

730
00:36:08.070 --> 00:36:10.170
And we will just do
what needs to be done,

731
00:36:10.170 --> 00:36:11.360
because we are tired

732
00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:14.070
of waiting for world leaders
to act on the climate crisis.

733
00:36:14.070 --> 00:36:18.510
AMY GOODMAN: Former chief Philippines
climate negotiator Yeb Saño,

734
00:36:18.510 --> 00:36:24.740
speaking at a protest against the draft
agreement inside COP21 last night,

735
00:36:24.740 --> 00:36:26.500
along with hundreds of others.

736
00:36:26.500 --> 00:36:32.500
Yeb Saño walked more than 900 miles,
from Rome to COP21 in Paris,

737
00:36:32.500 --> 00:36:34.450
to call for climate justice.

738
00:36:34.450 --> 00:36:37.720
Special thanks to Democracy
Now!'s Sam Alcoff, John Hamilton,

739
00:36:37.720 --> 00:36:41.730
Juan Carlos Dávila, Carla Wills
and Amy Littlefield fro that report.

740
00:36:41.730 --> 00:36:42.760
When we come back,

741
00:36:42.760 --> 00:36:46.410
we'll be joined by some of the people
at that protest and more.

742
00:36:46.410 --> 00:36:48.650
Stay with us.
We’re live from Paris, France,

743
00:36:48.650 --> 00:36:51.390
at COP21, the U.N. climate summit.
Back in a minute.

744
00:36:51.390 --> 00:38:06.870
[break]

745
00:38:06.870 --> 00:38:08.400
AMY GOODMAN: Indigenous people

746
00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:12.480
from the Lummi Nation of Washington
state singing "The Eagle Song"

747
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:14.490
here in Paris this week.

748
00:38:14.490 --> 00:38:18.990
The Lummi are fighting construction of a
massive coal terminal on sacred grounds.

749
00:38:18.990 --> 00:38:21.520
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!,
democracynow.org,

750
00:38:21.520 --> 00:38:23.200
The War and Peace Report.
I’m Amy Goodman.

751
00:38:23.200 --> 00:38:27.750
We’re broadcasting live from the 21st
U.N. climate change summit in Paris,

752
00:38:27.750 --> 00:38:30.790
France, where negotiators
from nearly 200 nations

753
00:38:30.790 --> 00:38:33.270
are in the final stretch
of negotiations.

754
00:38:33.270 --> 00:38:35.980
The text has nearly 100
outstanding points

755
00:38:35.980 --> 00:38:38.720
of disagreement
that still need to be resolved.

756
00:38:38.720 --> 00:38:41.970
One of the most contentious issues
is the role that wealthy

757
00:38:41.970 --> 00:38:45.210
and more advanced developing countries
should play in helping

758
00:38:45.210 --> 00:38:47.980
vulnerable nations cope
with the impacts of climate change.

759
00:38:47.980 --> 00:38:50.550
Another is whether the final text
will include the target

760
00:38:50.550 --> 00:38:53.900
of limiting global warming
to 1.5 degrees Celsius,

761
00:38:53.900 --> 00:38:55.600
or 2.7 degrees Fahrenheit,

762
00:38:55.600 --> 00:38:57.210
over pre-industrial levels.

763
00:38:57.210 --> 00:38:59.700
To make sense of it all,
we’re joined by three guests.

764
00:38:59.700 --> 00:39:01.170
Antonia Juhasz is with us.

765
00:39:01.170 --> 00:39:04.490
She’s a journalist here
covering COP21 for Newsweek.

766
00:39:04.490 --> 00:39:08.040
Her latest article
is headlined "Suicidal Tendencies:

767
00:39:08.040 --> 00:39:12.090
How Saudi Arabia Could Kill
the COP21 Negotiations in Paris."

768
00:39:12.090 --> 00:39:14.910
We’re also joined by Kumi Naidoo,

769
00:39:14.910 --> 00:39:17.380
executive director
of Greenpeace International.

770
00:39:17.380 --> 00:39:18.930
He is from South Africa.

771
00:39:18.930 --> 00:39:20.750
And Asad Rehman is also with us,

772
00:39:20.750 --> 00:39:24.160
head of international climate
for Friends of the Earth.

773
00:39:24.160 --> 00:39:25.750
And we welcome you all to Democracy Now!

774
00:39:25.750 --> 00:39:27.980
Kumi, you were there last night.

775
00:39:27.980 --> 00:39:34.640
Why did you gather, hundreds of people
saying no to the draft Paris accord?

776
00:39:34.640 --> 00:39:38.250
KUMI NAIDOO: Well, there are
so many loopholes in that draft text,

777
00:39:38.250 --> 00:39:40.510
you could fly Air Force One through it.

778
00:39:40.510 --> 00:39:43.590
I mean, bottom line is,
it’s lacking in ambition.

779
00:39:43.590 --> 00:39:48.880
It has lots of options,
which might keep—

780
00:39:48.880 --> 00:39:52.620
give a false sense of complacency,
that there’s lots to fight for.

781
00:39:52.620 --> 00:39:56.490
But importantly, I think we
should acknowledge that everybody

782
00:39:56.490 --> 00:39:58.940
who has participated
in a climate protest

783
00:39:58.940 --> 00:40:00.220
over the last couple of years,

784
00:40:00.220 --> 00:40:06.820
they can take some comfort from the fact
that 1.5 as a goal is alive still.

785
00:40:07.420 --> 00:40:09.110
It would not have been there,

786
00:40:09.110 --> 00:40:11.800
had it not been for the activism
that we have seen around the world.

787
00:40:11.800 --> 00:40:16.930
However, if 1.5 is not backed up
with a clear, long-term goal

788
00:40:16.930 --> 00:40:18.990
of how we phase out from fossil fuels

789
00:40:18.990 --> 00:40:20.600
by 2050,

790
00:40:20.600 --> 00:40:24.630
the commitments that governments
have made in terms of emissions,

791
00:40:24.630 --> 00:40:25.740
when you add it all up,

792
00:40:25.740 --> 00:40:28.960
it’s taking us to a 3.7-degree world.

793
00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:31.120
So, basically, you know,

794
00:40:32.160 --> 00:40:35.780
it just doesn’t add up to the level
of ambition and the sense of urgency

795
00:40:35.780 --> 00:40:36.840
that we need to see.

796
00:40:36.840 --> 00:40:37.940
And bottom line is,

797
00:40:38.560 --> 00:40:43.130
I would say that the fingerprints
of the fossil fuel industry

798
00:40:43.130 --> 00:40:46.350
is in far too many places
on this draft text.

799
00:40:46.350 --> 00:40:48.510
AMY GOODMAN: Like where?
KUMI NAIDOO: Well, basically,

800
00:40:48.510 --> 00:40:54.590
in terms of trying to push the date
for decarbonization beyond 2050,

801
00:40:54.590 --> 00:40:57.920
because, you see,
they want that so they can go into orgy

802
00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:01.250
of fossil fuel burning
over the next couple of decades.

803
00:41:01.250 --> 00:41:04.230
Right now the science is very clear.

804
00:41:04.230 --> 00:41:07.760
Extreme weather events are telling us
that we are running out of time.

805
00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:09.440
Lives are being lost now.

806
00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:12.070
You know, while we’re here,
we saw what happened in Chennai.

807
00:41:12.070 --> 00:41:14.040
We are seeing, you know,

808
00:41:14.040 --> 00:41:17.230
huge devastation in the Philippines
on an ongoing basis.

809
00:41:17.230 --> 00:41:18.690
My continent, Africa,

810
00:41:18.690 --> 00:41:21.940
is suffering from climate-induced
desertification and so on.

811
00:41:21.940 --> 00:41:23.880
And, you know, quite frankly,

812
00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:27.400
there is a bigger responsibility
for developed countries.

813
00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:30.380
And I feel—and this is not
a comfortable thing to say—

814
00:41:30.380 --> 00:41:32.660
that if London,

815
00:41:32.660 --> 00:41:37.710
Paris, Washington, Brussels
were facing as urgent the situation

816
00:41:37.710 --> 00:41:40.570
that we are facing
in the developing parts of the world,

817
00:41:40.570 --> 00:41:43.420
I don’t think we would be having such
a struggle to get the kind of ambition

818
00:41:43.420 --> 00:41:45.870
that we need and the goal of, you know,

819
00:41:45.870 --> 00:41:48.880
reaching 100 percent renewable energy
by 2050 and [inaudible].

820
00:41:48.880 --> 00:41:51.450
AMY GOODMAN: So are you saying
there’s racism involved?

821
00:41:51.450 --> 00:41:53.990
KUMI NAIDOO: Well, people
can draw whatever they want from that.

822
00:41:53.990 --> 00:41:57.050
There is no question that most of—

823
00:41:57.050 --> 00:41:59.420
you know, I’ve used
the term "climate apartheid" before.

824
00:41:59.420 --> 00:42:00.420
I’ve said that, you know,

825
00:42:00.420 --> 00:42:05.260
it’s uncomfortable that where
the biggest historical responsibility

826
00:42:05.260 --> 00:42:09.320
lies is not where the first and most
brutal impacts are actually being faced.

827
00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:12.070
And the demography of that is clear.
You know, I—

828
00:42:12.070 --> 00:42:15.040
AMY GOODMAN: And you were an
anti-apartheid activist in South Africa.

829
00:42:15.630 --> 00:42:18.540
KUMI NAIDOO: Yeah.
And, I mean, what people need to—

830
00:42:18.540 --> 00:42:21.650
the negotiators now
in the remaining 36 hours,

831
00:42:21.650 --> 00:42:24.210
they need to understand
nature does not negotiate.

832
00:42:24.210 --> 00:42:25.780
They cannot change the science.

833
00:42:25.780 --> 00:42:27.620
All they can change is political will.

834
00:42:27.620 --> 00:42:30.940
And what is at stake here is not
some ethereal thing called a planet.

835
00:42:30.940 --> 00:42:34.000
This is a fight for our children
and their children’s futures.

836
00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:38.220
And there is absolutely no sense
of intergenerational solidarity,

837
00:42:38.220 --> 00:42:41.350
other than in some nice words
that we heard from the heads of state.

838
00:42:41.350 --> 00:42:44.110
And there’s a total disconnect
between what the heads of state

839
00:42:44.110 --> 00:42:46.840
said in the first two days
of the talks

840
00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:52.100
and how the conversations have since
proceeded in the negotiations.

841
00:42:52.100 --> 00:42:55.010
AMY GOODMAN: You said
you could drive U.S. Air Force One

842
00:42:55.010 --> 00:42:56.060
through the loopholes.

843
00:42:56.060 --> 00:43:01.680
Are you suggesting the U.S.
is involved with stopping any kind

844
00:43:01.680 --> 00:43:04.890
of actual meaningful accord
from happening?

845
00:43:04.890 --> 00:43:06.930
KUMI NAIDOO: Well, I think, you know,
if you have to rate how the U.S.

846
00:43:06.930 --> 00:43:07.950
behaved in Copenhagen

847
00:43:07.950 --> 00:43:10.420
and how they behave—are behaving here,

848
00:43:10.420 --> 00:43:12.250
there is an improvement, overall.

849
00:43:12.250 --> 00:43:15.100
But there are many things,
like on loss and damage,

850
00:43:15.100 --> 00:43:17.130
the U.S. is the biggest blocker,

851
00:43:17.130 --> 00:43:21.240
in terms of ensuring that poor countries
who did not contribute to the problem,

852
00:43:21.240 --> 00:43:25.170
who are facing devastating impacts
and are saying, "We need support,

853
00:43:25.170 --> 00:43:26.200
we need compensation,

854
00:43:26.200 --> 00:43:27.450
we need insurance"—

855
00:43:28.250 --> 00:43:30.220
and the U.S., there’s no question,

856
00:43:30.220 --> 00:43:32.720
is the biggest blocker, in my mind,
in terms of loss and—

857
00:43:32.720 --> 00:43:33.800
AMY GOODMAN: So they’re saying no?
The U.S. is saying no?

858
00:43:33.800 --> 00:43:35.130
KUMI NAIDOO: No to loss and damage,
yeah.

859
00:43:35.130 --> 00:43:38.500
AMY GOODMAN: I want to go
to U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry

860
00:43:38.500 --> 00:43:41.750
announcing plans
to double funding the United States

861
00:43:41.750 --> 00:43:43.560
provides to help [developing]

862
00:43:43.560 --> 00:43:48.330
countries adapt to climate change
to around $860 million a year.

863
00:43:48.330 --> 00:43:51.440
SECRETARY OF STATE JOHN KERRY:
So I am pleased to announce today

864
00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:53.630
that the United States is committing

865
00:43:53.630 --> 00:44:00.450
to double our public grant-based
adaptation investments by the year 2020.

866
00:44:00.450 --> 00:44:01.700
And we are—

867
00:44:07.300 --> 00:44:09.260
we are prepared to do our part,

868
00:44:09.260 --> 00:44:13.800
and we will not leave the most
vulnerable nations among us

869
00:44:13.800 --> 00:44:16.580
to quite literally
weather the storm alone.

870
00:44:16.580 --> 00:44:19.450
AMY GOODMAN: So that’s Secretary
of State John Kerry yesterday

871
00:44:19.450 --> 00:44:21.310
as we were broadcasting the show.

872
00:44:21.310 --> 00:44:24.590
A doubling of funding,
is that right, Antonia Juhasz?

873
00:44:24.590 --> 00:44:27.160
ANTONIA JUHASZ: This is staying
consistent with the same plan

874
00:44:27.160 --> 00:44:28.740
that the U.S. was already on,

875
00:44:28.740 --> 00:44:31.420
but making an announcement
that it’s a doubling of the commitment.

876
00:44:31.420 --> 00:44:34.980
So, it’s good that there is this money
on the table, of course,

877
00:44:34.980 --> 00:44:37.530
but it’s not a doubling
of what the U.S. had already planned.

878
00:44:37.530 --> 00:44:39.700
It’s the same plan
we had coming into the COP.

879
00:44:39.700 --> 00:44:40.720
AMY GOODMAN: Asad Rehman,

880
00:44:40.720 --> 00:44:44.040
you’re particularly critical
of this issue of loss and damage.

881
00:44:44.040 --> 00:44:46.610
And again,
especially in the United States,

882
00:44:46.610 --> 00:44:49.400
these climate change negotiations
are hardly being covered.

883
00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:54.220
When you say "loss and damage," explain
what that means in real terms.

884
00:44:54.220 --> 00:44:57.560
ASAD REHMAN: That means the support for
the most vulnerable, the poorest people,

885
00:44:57.560 --> 00:45:00.250
who are really losing their lives
and livelihoods

886
00:45:00.250 --> 00:45:03.600
and who are going to deal
with ever-increasing climate impacts,

887
00:45:03.600 --> 00:45:06.760
mostly because of the responsibility
of rich, developed countries

888
00:45:06.760 --> 00:45:09.600
who have grown fat and rich
from carbon pollution.

889
00:45:09.600 --> 00:45:13.450
Now, what we’re seeing in the halls
behind us is the biggest [inaudible].

890
00:45:13.450 --> 00:45:16.680
Now you’ve got the United States,
also backed by the European Union,

891
00:45:16.680 --> 00:45:19.040
saying, "We actually
support loss and damage—

892
00:45:19.040 --> 00:45:21.480
as long as loss and damage doesn’t mean

893
00:45:21.480 --> 00:45:24.760
that we have to provide support
for those most vulnerable."

894
00:45:24.760 --> 00:45:25.800
So, what we’re saying

895
00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:27.670
is that they’re willing
to accept the words,

896
00:45:27.670 --> 00:45:30.790
but put a caveat
in that they are no longer responsible.

897
00:45:30.790 --> 00:45:34.520
We see the same thing
on the 1.5-degree target:

898
00:45:34.520 --> 00:45:35.600
Rich, developed countries,

899
00:45:35.600 --> 00:45:38.130
who have never had any indication

900
00:45:38.130 --> 00:45:40.780
that they would support
such a meaningful target,

901
00:45:40.780 --> 00:45:41.940
are saying they support it,

902
00:45:41.940 --> 00:45:44.480
but without delivering
any of concrete ambition

903
00:45:44.480 --> 00:45:46.280
that’s needed now, not tomorrow.

904
00:45:46.280 --> 00:45:48.790
The same with climate finance—
they’re not paying their fair share.

905
00:45:48.790 --> 00:45:51.300
AMY GOODMAN: Say what you
mean by "climate finance."

906
00:45:51.300 --> 00:45:52.830
ASAD REHMAN: So, rich countries

907
00:45:52.830 --> 00:45:53.870
have got a legal—

908
00:45:53.870 --> 00:45:55.460
and it’s a legal, as well as a moral—

909
00:45:55.460 --> 00:45:59.710
obligation to help poorer countries
deal with the existing climate impacts

910
00:45:59.710 --> 00:46:01.340
and to be able to grow cleanly.

911
00:46:01.340 --> 00:46:03.760
We remember,
we live in a deeply unequal world,

912
00:46:03.760 --> 00:46:05.080
where poorer countries are still

913
00:46:05.080 --> 00:46:07.920
struggling with many of the challenges
of [inaudible] poverty.

914
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:10.680
And rich countries,
who are responsible for this crisis,

915
00:46:10.680 --> 00:46:12.570
have taken on a legal obligation.

916
00:46:12.570 --> 00:46:15.670
What’s happening behind us
in these halls is those rich countries

917
00:46:15.670 --> 00:46:17.360
now want to shift the burden

918
00:46:17.360 --> 00:46:19.640
of responsibility
from the rich to the poor.

919
00:46:19.640 --> 00:46:22.470
So they want to pass the tab
to the poor.

920
00:46:22.470 --> 00:46:24.020
And that’s what’s being fought over.

921
00:46:25.160 --> 00:46:29.200
Many people talk about President Obama’s
legacy in terms of on climate change.

922
00:46:29.200 --> 00:46:33.220
Unfortunately, the legacy he will leave
here is a poison chalice to the poor,

923
00:46:33.220 --> 00:46:37.400
to actually make them pay
for the impacts of climate change.

924
00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:40.990
Unfortunately, I don’t see much
difference between the United States now

925
00:46:40.990 --> 00:46:42.890
and the United States in Copenhagen.

926
00:46:42.890 --> 00:46:46.000
AMY GOODMAN: Wait, "a poison chalice
to the poor."

927
00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:48.870
Explain what you mean
about what the U.S. role

928
00:46:48.870 --> 00:46:52.280
is here and around the issue
overall of climate change.

929
00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:56.280
ASAD REHMAN: Well, the United States
here is primarily the bad guy.

930
00:46:56.280 --> 00:46:59.360
They are keeping an alliance
of countries together

931
00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:01.090
of mainly the rich, developed countries.

932
00:47:01.090 --> 00:47:03.530
They brought on the European Union
together with them.

933
00:47:03.530 --> 00:47:07.210
What they’re trying to do is rewrite the
legal rules that are taking place here.

934
00:47:07.210 --> 00:47:10.210
AMY GOODMAN: Now, I wanted just
to clarify a big news headline

935
00:47:10.210 --> 00:47:11.210
came out yesterday.

936
00:47:11.210 --> 00:47:13.300
There’s the high ambition group.

937
00:47:13.300 --> 00:47:16.380
It was kept under wraps,
secret for six months,

938
00:47:16.380 --> 00:47:18.940
and they unveiled themselves
in the last few days—

939
00:47:18.940 --> 00:47:21.390
over a hundred of the world’s countries,

940
00:47:21.390 --> 00:47:24.660
so more than half the countries,
led by the United States.

941
00:47:24.660 --> 00:47:26.240
ASAD REHMAN: Yeah, smoke and mirrors.

942
00:47:26.240 --> 00:47:29.950
I mean, a high ambition alliance
of countries who are not—

943
00:47:29.950 --> 00:47:31.210
have got no ambition.

944
00:47:31.210 --> 00:47:34.280
The United States, which is doing
one-fifth of its fair share,

945
00:47:34.280 --> 00:47:35.300
the European Union,

946
00:47:35.300 --> 00:47:37.140
which is doing one-fifth
of its fair share,

947
00:47:37.140 --> 00:47:38.890
they’re not doing
any of their fair share

948
00:47:38.890 --> 00:47:41.840
in providing the finance
or the technology or the support.

949
00:47:41.840 --> 00:47:44.870
So, how they can call
themselves the high ambition alliance?

950
00:47:44.870 --> 00:47:47.700
What this really is,
is about trying to shift blame.

951
00:47:47.700 --> 00:47:51.340
If we go back to Copenhagen, we knew
that the blame then was on India.

952
00:47:51.340 --> 00:47:53.650
Now the blame is on India
and other—I mean, on China.

953
00:47:53.650 --> 00:47:55.970
Now the blame is on India.
AMY GOODMAN: So, wait.

954
00:47:55.970 --> 00:47:59.090
On this issue of who’s in the coalition
and who’s not,

955
00:47:59.090 --> 00:48:02.490
China and India
are not in this coalition.

956
00:48:02.490 --> 00:48:05.420
ASAD REHMAN: No. So, what the United
States has managed to do,

957
00:48:05.420 --> 00:48:07.970
and, of course,
they—look, this is geopolitics.

958
00:48:07.970 --> 00:48:10.460
We’re talking about one of the most
powerful countries in the world.

959
00:48:10.460 --> 00:48:14.080
It’s managed to get people
to sign up to a paper agreement.

960
00:48:14.080 --> 00:48:15.700
It actually doesn’t mean anything.

961
00:48:15.700 --> 00:48:17.260
In reality, what we’re seeing,

962
00:48:17.260 --> 00:48:19.480
and we saw last night in the halls here,

963
00:48:19.480 --> 00:48:23.370
is every single developing country
come out very, very strongly,

964
00:48:23.370 --> 00:48:26.570
saying they oppose the attempt
by the United States

965
00:48:26.570 --> 00:48:28.450
to rewrite the legal rules here,

966
00:48:28.450 --> 00:48:30.360
to rip up the legal protection,

967
00:48:30.360 --> 00:48:33.050
because what we are talking about
is the protection to the poor,

968
00:48:33.050 --> 00:48:34.420
the most vulnerable

969
00:48:34.420 --> 00:48:36.570
and the poorer countries
around the world.

970
00:48:36.570 --> 00:48:38.170
They want to rip up that protection.

971
00:48:38.170 --> 00:48:40.940
They want to take the responsibility
of that pollution

972
00:48:40.940 --> 00:48:42.280
and put it onto the poor.

973
00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:44.380
That was rejected
by developing countries.

974
00:48:44.380 --> 00:48:45.990
And in the next 36 hours,

975
00:48:45.990 --> 00:48:49.610
what we’re going to see
is either a lowering of expectations,

976
00:48:49.610 --> 00:48:53.000
a bullying and bribing
of poorer countries to shift the blame.

977
00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:55.850
But in reality,
there is a crime scene on there,

978
00:48:55.850 --> 00:48:58.330
but the criminal
here is the United States.

979
00:48:59.290 --> 00:49:00.460
AMY GOODMAN: Antonia Juhasz,

980
00:49:00.460 --> 00:49:04.330
you have written an article
for Newsweek, "Suicidal Tendencies:

981
00:49:04.330 --> 00:49:09.130
How Saudi Arabia Could Kill
the COP21 Negotiations in Paris."

982
00:49:09.130 --> 00:49:11.140
You see another force here.

983
00:49:11.690 --> 00:49:13.520
ANTONIA JUHASZ: This is not
to say Saudi Arabia

984
00:49:13.520 --> 00:49:16.140
to the exclusion of other governments—

985
00:49:16.140 --> 00:49:18.190
the United States, for example—but that—

986
00:49:18.190 --> 00:49:20.450
AMY GOODMAN: And, of course, Saudi
Arabia is an ally of the United States.

987
00:49:20.450 --> 00:49:22.750
ANTONIA JUHASZ: Exactly.
But that Saudi Arabia

988
00:49:22.750 --> 00:49:27.530
is also playing a key role
in trying to derail the negotiations.

989
00:49:27.530 --> 00:49:30.530
And, you know, that’s of course
not particularly surprising.

990
00:49:30.530 --> 00:49:32.450
The world’s largest producer of oil,

991
00:49:32.450 --> 00:49:34.880
16 percent of the world’s reserves,

992
00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:38.920
also a country that 90 percent
of its export income comes from oil,

993
00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:42.950
this is clearly a very significant issue
for Saudi Arabia.

994
00:49:42.950 --> 00:49:45.860
And they are using their influence,

995
00:49:45.860 --> 00:49:49.820
among the Arab Group,
among the Gulf Cooperation Council

996
00:49:49.820 --> 00:49:52.800
and just in the negotiations themselves,

997
00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:55.180
to put up roadblocks, slow things down,

998
00:49:55.180 --> 00:49:56.360
water things down,

999
00:49:56.360 --> 00:50:01.110
make it so that it is not as meaningful
of an agreement that it needs to be.

1000
00:50:01.110 --> 00:50:03.770
AMY GOODMAN: Just to explain the reason
it matters—

1001
00:50:03.770 --> 00:50:08.190
I mean, it is not surprising
that a large oil-producing nation

1002
00:50:08.190 --> 00:50:11.770
would be opposed to limits
on greenhouse gas emissions,

1003
00:50:11.770 --> 00:50:14.380
but the U.N. works by consensus—

1004
00:50:14.380 --> 00:50:17.030
why Saudi Arabia has so much,

1005
00:50:17.030 --> 00:50:20.390
like the United States,
power here to block?

1006
00:50:20.390 --> 00:50:23.720
ANTONIA JUHASZ: Well, it’s a sort
of interesting form of consensus.

1007
00:50:23.720 --> 00:50:26.690
It’s consensus
that tends to only be utilized

1008
00:50:26.690 --> 00:50:30.500
when it’s large powers
that are offering a bloc.

1009
00:50:30.500 --> 00:50:33.830
It’s a—I would call
it an informal consensus process.

1010
00:50:33.830 --> 00:50:38.530
And so, there is the ability
for large powers to put in wedges.

1011
00:50:38.530 --> 00:50:44.110
And on the 1.5-degree point
in particular, Saudi Arabia,

1012
00:50:44.110 --> 00:50:49.230
leading the Arab Group,
has taken a stand against the 1.5,

1013
00:50:49.230 --> 00:50:51.200
and it’s adamant against the 1.5.

1014
00:50:51.200 --> 00:50:56.200
Saudi Arabia has also taken a stand
against the emerging economies

1015
00:50:56.200 --> 00:51:00.090
putting up more money
to pay for all of the needs

1016
00:51:00.090 --> 00:51:02.060
that we’ve heard articulated.

1017
00:51:02.060 --> 00:51:06.070
So that’s [inaudible] trying
to get China and India

1018
00:51:06.070 --> 00:51:08.980
and others to put up more money.

1019
00:51:08.980 --> 00:51:12.810
And Saudi Arabia has used that point
as a place to say, "Well,

1020
00:51:12.810 --> 00:51:16.000
we’re not going to do that,
and until you take that off the table,

1021
00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:19.950
we’re also not going
to look at putting in long-term goals.

1022
00:51:19.950 --> 00:51:22.810
We’re not going to look
at these critically important reviews

1023
00:51:22.810 --> 00:51:24.050
of everyone’s climate plan,

1024
00:51:24.050 --> 00:51:26.290
" that are ideally supposed
to start happening right away

1025
00:51:26.290 --> 00:51:27.450
and after five years.

1026
00:51:27.450 --> 00:51:29.570
They said that needs
to be off the table.

1027
00:51:29.570 --> 00:51:34.660
And these are very important,
watering down—"watering down"

1028
00:51:34.660 --> 00:51:35.740
is almost too weak of a word—

1029
00:51:35.740 --> 00:51:40.130
just severely weakening
what could come out of the agreement.

1030
00:51:40.130 --> 00:51:42.410
But there’s an interplay
between these powers, right?

1031
00:51:42.410 --> 00:51:46.480
And so, this is a negotiation,

1032
00:51:46.480 --> 00:51:49.150
and they’re using each other
to take things off the table

1033
00:51:49.150 --> 00:51:50.560
that they don’t want
to have on the table.

1034
00:51:50.560 --> 00:51:51.890
AMY GOODMAN: You point out in your piece

1035
00:51:51.890 --> 00:51:54.800
that Saudi Arabia
has its own COP21 Facebook

1036
00:51:54.800 --> 00:51:58.810
and Twitter pages featuring a photograph
of solar panels in the desert.

1037
00:51:58.810 --> 00:52:01.660
They denied
human-connected climate change—

1038
00:52:01.660 --> 00:52:04.360
I’m not talking about the Republican
presidential candidates in the U.S.,

1039
00:52:04.360 --> 00:52:06.740
but the Saudi delegation—
for a long time.

1040
00:52:06.740 --> 00:52:08.780
They’re accepting that now?
ANTONIA JUHASZ: Absolutely.

1041
00:52:08.780 --> 00:52:11.550
And in fact, you know,
I would say, within the delegation,

1042
00:52:11.550 --> 00:52:14.570
there is a tremendous amount
of awareness about the severity

1043
00:52:14.570 --> 00:52:18.380
of climate change and its impacts
on their country and their region,

1044
00:52:18.380 --> 00:52:21.170
which is actually why I entitled
the piece "Suicidal Tendencies,"

1045
00:52:21.170 --> 00:52:23.130
because there is an—you know,

1046
00:52:23.130 --> 00:52:26.750
you can’t ignore the dramatic increases
in heat, dust storms,

1047
00:52:26.750 --> 00:52:29.140
sea level rise,
the impacts on agriculture.

1048
00:52:29.140 --> 00:52:31.690
AMY GOODMAN: Didn’t a report just
come out that said in the Gulf states

1049
00:52:31.690 --> 00:52:35.910
you’re not going to be able to stay
outside for more than a few hours soon?

1050
00:52:35.910 --> 00:52:38.460
ANTONIA JUHASZ: Exactly.
And the impact of that on conflict

1051
00:52:38.460 --> 00:52:41.240
obviously is something
that is felt very real

1052
00:52:41.240 --> 00:52:44.190
within this delegation
and within this group.

1053
00:52:44.840 --> 00:52:47.180
However, they will say that,

1054
00:52:47.180 --> 00:52:48.880
and then they’ll also say,

1055
00:52:48.880 --> 00:52:51.520
"We can’t get off of this resource."

1056
00:52:51.520 --> 00:52:52.580
And they will also say,

1057
00:52:52.580 --> 00:52:54.360
"We’re investing in alternative energy.

1058
00:52:54.360 --> 00:52:57.190
We’ve submitted
our individual climate plan.

1059
00:52:57.190 --> 00:52:59.180
We’re looking at renewables."

1060
00:52:59.180 --> 00:53:00.730
But when I asked a representative

1061
00:53:00.730 --> 00:53:02.080
of Saudi Aramco, you know,

1062
00:53:02.080 --> 00:53:05.020
what that really means,
which is the Saudi oil company,

1063
00:53:05.750 --> 00:53:09.050
I was told, you know, "Yes,
we’re investing in alternative energy,

1064
00:53:09.050 --> 00:53:11.200
and that will reduce
our greenhouse gas emissions,

1065
00:53:11.200 --> 00:53:13.460
but that’s
for domestic energy consumption

1066
00:53:13.460 --> 00:53:16.930
so that we’re able
to produce more oil to export."

1067
00:53:16.930 --> 00:53:20.450
AMY GOODMAN: And this deal
that Amnesty International

1068
00:53:20.450 --> 00:53:22.840
said was made about dropping language,

1069
00:53:22.840 --> 00:53:26.420
the U.S. dropping language
around gender equity and human rights,

1070
00:53:26.420 --> 00:53:30.130
and Saudi Arabia agreeing
to drop language around occupied peoples

1071
00:53:30.130 --> 00:53:32.620
that the U.S. didn’t want?
Do you know about this?

1072
00:53:32.620 --> 00:53:34.230
ANTONIA JUHASZ: I didn’t know
about this deal being reached.

1073
00:53:34.230 --> 00:53:38.190
I mean, this was a very important
paragraph that was about establishing,

1074
00:53:38.190 --> 00:53:41.450
within the meaningful portion
of the text—

1075
00:53:41.450 --> 00:53:43.600
so I don’t know if this has been
moved into the preamble.

1076
00:53:43.600 --> 00:53:47.730
A lot of the fight was over keeping it
in the operable language, Article 2.

1077
00:53:47.730 --> 00:53:51.440
And one of the things that happened
was that it was moved into a preamble,

1078
00:53:51.440 --> 00:53:52.970
which makes it non-legally binding.

1079
00:53:52.970 --> 00:53:55.460
And this was asserting women’s rights,
the rights of workers,

1080
00:53:55.460 --> 00:53:56.510
indigenous rights.

1081
00:53:56.510 --> 00:53:59.420
And then Saudi Arabia
had inserted the rights of peoples

1082
00:53:59.420 --> 00:54:00.750
in occupied territories—

1083
00:54:00.750 --> 00:54:03.540
not that most of us would disagree
that that’s an important thing,

1084
00:54:03.540 --> 00:54:07.660
but to put it in as a poison pill
to keep the United States and Israel

1085
00:54:07.660 --> 00:54:09.720
from being able
to include this paragraph.

1086
00:54:09.720 --> 00:54:11.260
AMY GOODMAN: From wanting
to include the paragraph.

1087
00:54:11.260 --> 00:54:12.700
ANTONIA JUHASZ: From wanting
to include the paragraph.

1088
00:54:12.700 --> 00:54:15.230
AMY GOODMAN: So what happens now,
Kumi Naidoo?

1089
00:54:15.230 --> 00:54:19.050
You were just at a session here calling
for people to take to the streets,

1090
00:54:19.050 --> 00:54:23.120
that the real action won’t take place
inside the COP, but outside?

1091
00:54:23.120 --> 00:54:26.100
I mean, we’re in a state
of emergency right now in Paris, France,

1092
00:54:26.100 --> 00:54:29.120
that will end, right, the day
after the U.N. climate summit ends,

1093
00:54:29.120 --> 00:54:31.050
but people are defying that?

1094
00:54:31.050 --> 00:54:34.160
KUMI NAIDOO: Well, firstly,
it’s important to note that most of us

1095
00:54:34.160 --> 00:54:38.890
in civil society never said "the road
to Paris," we always said "the road

1096
00:54:38.890 --> 00:54:43.130
through Paris," because we know
that many of our governments

1097
00:54:43.130 --> 00:54:46.300
are heavily controlled
and influenced by the interests of oil,

1098
00:54:46.300 --> 00:54:47.740
coal and gas companies.

1099
00:54:47.740 --> 00:54:51.050
We knew that the so-called interim—

1100
00:54:51.650 --> 00:54:54.690
the INDCs, where—

1101
00:54:54.690 --> 00:54:56.310
the targets that have come up,

1102
00:54:56.310 --> 00:54:58.060
was way below what we need.

1103
00:54:58.060 --> 00:55:03.530
So we have always said that come the day
after the COP, the struggle continues,

1104
00:55:03.530 --> 00:55:06.780
that we have to fight the struggle
on multiple levels.

1105
00:55:06.780 --> 00:55:09.800
It’s going to need
peaceful civil disobedience.

1106
00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:13.200
It’s going to need litigation.

1107
00:55:13.200 --> 00:55:15.450
And I’m pleased to say today
on Human Rights Day,

1108
00:55:15.450 --> 00:55:16.680
in the Philippines,

1109
00:55:16.680 --> 00:55:18.410
the Philippine Human Rights Commission

1110
00:55:18.410 --> 00:55:25.600
has formally started an investigation
against 60 of the top carbon companies

1111
00:55:25.600 --> 00:55:26.850
in the world,

1112
00:55:27.460 --> 00:55:32.170
with the view
of litigating for the impacts

1113
00:55:32.170 --> 00:55:34.940
that the people
in the Philippines have experienced.

1114
00:55:34.940 --> 00:55:38.270
We have to go after not just the oil,
coal and gas companies,

1115
00:55:38.270 --> 00:55:40.920
but the very funding institutions—

1116
00:55:40.920 --> 00:55:42.810
banks and hedge funds and so on—

1117
00:55:42.810 --> 00:55:44.590
that actually fund these companies.

1118
00:55:44.590 --> 00:55:49.000
So, we announced today
that a coalition of organizations

1119
00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:52.900
is going to intensify
our resistance moving forward,

1120
00:55:52.900 --> 00:55:54.920
and that in the course
of next year

1121
00:55:54.920 --> 00:55:58.930
we’re going to see mass
civil disobedience around coal plants,

1122
00:55:58.930 --> 00:56:01.240
on oil pipelines,

1123
00:56:01.240 --> 00:56:02.520
on various fossil fuel infrastructure.

1124
00:56:02.520 --> 00:56:06.170
AMY GOODMAN: And the issue
legally of forcing polluters to pay,

1125
00:56:06.990 --> 00:56:08.240
Asad Rehman?

1126
00:56:09.040 --> 00:56:11.420
ASAD REHMAN: So,
I think there are two issues here.

1127
00:56:11.420 --> 00:56:14.790
First of all, polluters,
of course, have to pay.

1128
00:56:14.790 --> 00:56:17.320
But the biggest polluters
are, of course, countries.

1129
00:56:17.320 --> 00:56:19.550
So corporations are not created.

1130
00:56:19.550 --> 00:56:21.090
They’re not mythical entities.

1131
00:56:21.090 --> 00:56:24.220
We create them,
and they’re regulated by our states.

1132
00:56:24.220 --> 00:56:26.470
So the key question
is also that we have to be

1133
00:56:26.470 --> 00:56:29.080
careful that we’re not just
talking about corporations,

1134
00:56:29.080 --> 00:56:30.860
but we’re talking about our governments,

1135
00:56:30.860 --> 00:56:34.440
because it’s our governments that have
the legal and moral responsibility.

1136
00:56:34.440 --> 00:56:38.220
What we don’t want to get into is where
corporations think they can continue

1137
00:56:38.220 --> 00:56:40.250
to pollute as long as they pay a fine.

1138
00:56:40.250 --> 00:56:41.270
And we’ve seen that, of course,

1139
00:56:41.270 --> 00:56:43.530
with the tobacco industry
and other industries, as well.

1140
00:56:43.530 --> 00:56:47.620
What we really need to see
is regulation, deep cuts, emission cuts,

1141
00:56:47.620 --> 00:56:49.580
and a move away from our pollution—

1142
00:56:49.580 --> 00:56:50.620
polluting, dirty energy

1143
00:56:50.620 --> 00:56:54.380
towards renewable energy
and clean energy and peoples’ energy.

1144
00:56:54.380 --> 00:56:58.040
But let me just also—can I just
come back on—the one interesting thing

1145
00:56:58.040 --> 00:57:00.590
about the human rights
issue here is, of course,

1146
00:57:00.590 --> 00:57:02.670
that the United States has not ratified

1147
00:57:02.670 --> 00:57:05.890
any human rights statute
internationally.

1148
00:57:05.890 --> 00:57:10.610
So it is also using it as a poison pill
to try and divide developing countries.

1149
00:57:10.610 --> 00:57:14.000
And what we’re seeing here
is a real big game of divide and rule,

1150
00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:15.840
of trying to pick off
the most vulnerable.

1151
00:57:15.840 --> 00:57:17.650
We’ve heard it time and time again,

1152
00:57:17.650 --> 00:57:21.060
that the poorest countries
are being rung, capitals are being rung.

1153
00:57:21.060 --> 00:57:25.020
They’re being told, "You have to blame
other developing countries."

1154
00:57:25.020 --> 00:57:26.820
And we’re being set up for an argument

1155
00:57:26.820 --> 00:57:28.770
about survival versus development,

1156
00:57:28.770 --> 00:57:31.410
when, in reality,
we should be setting up a conversation

1157
00:57:31.410 --> 00:57:34.270
about the rich elites’ pattern
of consumption

1158
00:57:34.270 --> 00:57:36.920
and their lifestyle
against the majority of the world.

1159
00:57:36.920 --> 00:57:39.920
This is the 1 percent
versus the 99 percent.

1160
00:57:39.920 --> 00:57:41.580
AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank
you all for being with us.

1161
00:57:41.580 --> 00:57:44.050
We will be here tomorrow
covering the end of the COP,

1162
00:57:44.050 --> 00:57:45.680
though it may not end tomorrow.

1163
00:57:45.680 --> 00:57:47.390
Asad Rehman of Friends of the Earth,

1164
00:57:47.390 --> 00:57:49.170
Kumi Naidoo of Greenpeace,

1165
00:57:49.170 --> 00:57:53.440
and Antonia Juhasz, a journalist
covering the COP here for Newsweek.

1166
00:57:53.440 --> 00:57:55.950
We’ll link to her piece,
"Suicidal Tendencies,"

1167
00:57:55.950 --> 00:57:59.650
as well as all of the position papers

1168
00:57:59.650 --> 00:58:01.760
that groups have been putting out.

1169
00:58:01.760 --> 00:58:05.340
I’ll be speaking here in Paris Friday
night at 9:00 p.m. at The Place

1170
00:58:05.340 --> 00:58:09.400
to B. That’s 5 rue de Dunkerque
near Gare du Nord.

1171
00:58:09.400 --> 00:58:11.930
The talk will be also live-streamed.

1172
00:58:11.930 --> 00:58:14.000
For information,
you can go to democracynow.org.

1173
00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:18.540
And for our full coverage
of COP21 here for the two full weeks

1174
00:58:18.540 --> 00:58:20.130
of this global meeting,

1175
00:58:24.980 --> 00:58:45.990
you can go to democracynow.org.