WEBVTT

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On the road in San Francisco,
this is Democracy Now!

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We can never forget that every right
to vote has been signed in blood.

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And we are here
to say to America, "Wake up.

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Can’t you see that it is a desecration

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to the memory of the martyrs

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for the Voting Rights Act

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to be gutted by the Supreme Court."

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From Democracy Spring

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to Democracy Awakening,

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more than 900 people have been arrested
over the past week on Capitol Hill

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in a series of unprecedented protests

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against the the influence of big money

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in politics and the curtailing
of voting rights.

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We’ll speak with
Reverend William Barber,

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head of the NAACP
in North Carolina,

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just before he takes part in another act
of mass civil disobedience

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at the Capitol.

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Then, was your seafood caught by slaves?

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Today, a shocking exposé.
No one had actually spoken to men

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who were on boats

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or captive on the islands,
as we had found.

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So, the goal from the very beginning

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was to find a way
to find people

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who were actually captive slaves,

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to trace that fish back
to the American dinner table

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and, most importantly, to name names.

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We’ll speak with two
of the Associated Press reporters

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who broke the story.

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Today, the Pulitzer Prizes
will be announced.

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Will they win?
All that and more, coming up.

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Welcome to Democracy
Now!, democracynow.org,

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The War and Peace Report.

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I’m Amy Goodman.

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Brazil’s lower house
of Congress

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has voted
to start impeachment proceedings

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against President Dilma Rousseff.

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The final vote was 367 to 137

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in favor of impeachment.

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Early next month,
Brazil’s Senate

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will vote on
whether to put Rousseff

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on trial
for manipulating budget accounts.

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José Guimarães,

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the congressional leader
of Rousseff’s Workers’ Party,

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accused opposition lawmakers
of waging a coup.

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José Guimarães: "The coup has won
in the lower house,

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but the fight has not ended.

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No matter if it’s in the streets
and lanes or in the Senate,

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we will arouse the masses
and communicate with the Senate.

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We believe the Senate
will eliminate the attempts

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of the people involved in the coup,

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which is manipulated
by someone with no morals."

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Brazil has been engulfed
in a major corruption scandal,

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but Dilma Rousseff herself has not been
accused of any financial impropriety.

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However, 318 members of the Brazilian
Congress—including many

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who backed her impeachment—are
under investigation or face charges.

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Leading the impeachment process
has been Brazil’s Speaker

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of the House Eduardo Cunha,

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who has been accused

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of squirreling away $5 million
into Swiss bank accounts.

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Prior to the vote, Dilma Rousseff said
the charges against her were false.

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President Dilma Rousseff: "The complaint
against me that is under analysis

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in the National Congress

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is a fraud—the biggest
judicial and political fraud

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in the history of our country.

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Without this, impeachment
wouldn’t be voted upon.

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Brazil and democracy
don’t deserve this farce."

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In Ecuador, rescuers are still
attempting to pull survivors from rubble

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after the strongest earthquake

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to hit Ecuador in decades
killed at least 272 people

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and injured more than 2,500 others.

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The death toll from Saturday’s quake

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is expected to rise
as more bodies are uncovered.

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A series
of earthquakes

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have also hit
the Japanese island of Kyushu,

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killing at least 42 people

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and displacing about 110,000.

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Defense Secretary Ashton
Carter has arrived in Baghdad

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as the Obama administration

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prepares to widen its military presence
in Syria and Iraq in its fight

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against the self-proclaimed
Islamic State.

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According to The New York Times,

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the Obama administration
is preparing to send

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as many as 200 more
special operations forces

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to assist Syrian rebels,

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in addition to sending
more Army attack helicopters to Iraq.

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Human Rights
Watch has accused Turkish border guards

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of shooting at Syrian refugees
fleeing fighting in northern Syria.

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In other news from Syria,

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the United Nations is warning
as many as 10,000 civilians

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living in a Palestinian refugee camp
near Damascus are trapped in their homes

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and are facing starvation
and dehydration.

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On Saturday,
Pope Francis

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traveled to the Greek island of Lesbos

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to meet with refugees

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who have fled war and poverty

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in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan
and other countries.

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Refugees living in Lesbos

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described dire conditions on the island.

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Ahmed: "In Moria camp,
it’s like Guantánamo,

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because it’s very hard.
The life is very hard here.

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The policemen are very good.

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The people here are very good.

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But the situation
are very bad, very hard.

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We are like in jail.

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You feel yourself like in jail."

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Pope Francis called on European nations

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to do more to help refugees fleeing war.

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Pope Francis: "To be truly united with
those forced to flee their homelands,

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we need to eliminate the causes
of this dramatic situation.

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It is not enough to limit ourselves
to responding to emergencies

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as they arise.

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Instead, we need to encourage
political efforts

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that are broader
in scope and multilateral.

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It is necessary, above all,
to build peace

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where war has brought
destruction and death,

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and to stop this scourge
from spreading."

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At the end of his trip, Pope Francis

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took three families
of Syrian refugees,

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including six children,
aboard his flight to Rome.

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He said, "It’s a small gesture,

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but one which we all need to offer

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to give a helping hand
to those in need!"

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Bernie Sanders
and Hillary Clinton

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spent much of the weekend campaigning

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ahead of Tuesday’s
primary in New York.

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On Sunday, Sanders spoke
before a crowd of over 28,000

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in Brooklyn’s Prospect Park

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in what the campaign described
as Sanders’ largest rally ever.

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On Friday, Sanders took a break
from the campaign trail

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to fly to the Vatican,
where he addressed a conference

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on social justice.

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Sen. Bernie Sanders: "Rather than
an economy aimed at the common good,

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we have been left with an economy
operated for the top 1 percent,

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who get wealthier
and wealthier

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as the working class, the young

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and the poor fall further
and further behind."

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Bernie Sanders and his wife Jane briefly

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met with Pope Francis
on Saturday morning.

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While Sanders was at the Vatican

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on Friday,
Hillary Clinton

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spent part of the day campaigning
in the Bronx,

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where she addressed
the financial crisis in Puerto Rico.

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Hillary Clinton: "We need to tell
the hedge funds

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and the other creditors,

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who are just trying to make a profit

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off the misery
of the Puerto Rican people,

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to go to the back
of the line

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and stop blocking us

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from making a fair resolution
of this crisis."

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On Friday night, Clinton
flew to San Francisco

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for the first of two fundraisers
hosted by George and Amal Clooney.

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Tickets at the head table

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went for over $350,000 per couple.

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On Saturday, protesters in California

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threw dollar bills
at Clinton’s motorcade

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as she drove to one of the dinners.

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During an interview on
"Meet the Press," George Clooney

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admitted the amount of money

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he has helped Clinton raise was obscene.

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George Clooney: "I think that—you know,
we had some protesters last night

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when we—when we pulled up
in San Francisco.

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And they’re right to protest.
They’re absolutely right.

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It is an obscene amount of money.

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The Sanders campaign,

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when they talk about it,
is absolutely right.

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It’s ridiculous that we should have
this kind of money in politics.

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I agree completely."

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Bernie Sanders has released
his 2014 tax return.

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The senator and his wife Jane

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made $205,000 in the entire year.

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That’s less than what Hillary Clinton
earned for giving single speeches.

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According to The Hill, Clinton
was paid $280,000

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in 2014 for a speech
to Deutsche Bank,

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$325,000 for a speech

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to the National Automobile
Dealers Association

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and $225,000 for addressing
General Electric.

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In one of the most closely watched
legal cases of the year,

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the Supreme Court
will hear arguments today

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on whether President Obama
overstepped his authority

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when he took unilateral action
to protect millions

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of undocumented immigrants
from deportation.

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The case pits the Obama administration

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against 26 states led by Texas

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that filed suit to block
his 2014 immigration plan.

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Saudi Arabia is threatening to sell off

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$750 billion in U.S. Treasury securities

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if Congress passes a law
to allow the families

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of the victims
of the September 11 attacks

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to sue the Saudi government for any role
it may have played in the attacks.

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The kingdom’s threat comes just ahead of
President Obama’s trip

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to Saudi Arabia on Wednesday.

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The Obama administration
has lobbied Congress

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to block the bill’s passage.

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The Pentagon has transferred nine
Guantánamo prisoners to Saudi Arabia,

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bringing the total number
of remaining prisoners down to 80.

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One of the nine men
who were released was Tariq Ba Odah,

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who has been on hunger strike

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to demand his freedom since 2007.

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During his hunger strike,
his weight dropped to only 74 pounds,

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and he was repeatedly force-fed
by Guantánamo guards.

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After the nine men
landed in Saudi Arabia,

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one of the former
Guantánamo prisoners spoke out.

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Former Guantánamo prisoner: "As soon
as the plane landed,

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I didn’t feel I was at an airport.

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I felt at home, thank God.

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It’s as if I arrived
at my home amidst my family.

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Thank God.
From the first hours we arrived,

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we’ve been received in a way
we couldn’t imagine.

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I thank all those who wanted
to make this happen."

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In news from Afghanistan,
The Wall Street Journal

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is reporting 12 people,

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including three children,

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were killed when Afghan
and U.S. forces

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conducted a night raid on the house

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of a suspected al-Qaeda member
in eastern Afghanistan.

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Ethiopian officials say more
than 140 civilians

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died after gunmen
from South Sudan

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opened fire on Friday
in the border region of Gambela.

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The region is home
to thousands of refugees

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who have fled the ongoing conflict
in South Sudan.

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Officials say the armed men
also abducted 39 children.

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Security forces have killed

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at least 60 of the attackers.

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Today is Tax Day,

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the day Americans must file
their personal tax returns.

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The National War Tax Resistance
Coordinating Committee

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is organizing a number of protests today

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across the country.

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According to the War Resisters League,

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44 percent of all federal income tax

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goes to fund current
and past military operations.

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And those are some of the headlines
this is Democracy Now,

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Democracynow.org, the War and Peace

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Report.
I’m Amy Goodman.

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AMY GOODMAN: We’re on the road
in our 100-city tour,

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headed to Salt Lake City tonight

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and then on to Colorado.

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But right now in Washington,

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more than 900 people have been arrested
over the past week on Capitol Hill

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in a series of unprecedented protests

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against the influence of big money

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and corporate lobbying in politics.

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More civil disobedience
is scheduled for today.

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The arrests began last Monday

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during an event organized
as part of a wave

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of actions dubbed Democracy Spring.

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Another protest began Saturday

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under the banner Democracy Awakening.

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One of the key organizers
of Democracy Awakening

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is Reverend William Barber,

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president of North Carolina chapter

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of the NAACP.

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REV. WILLIAM BARBER: I come
from the South,

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from North Carolina,
where we have seen,

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since Shelby, the worst
coordinated attack in this country.

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At the very time that African Americans
are voting at 70 percent

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and we’re building fusion
with progressive whites and Latinos,

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we’ve seen an extremist governor

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and Legislature vote

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to put in place apartheid
voting districts.

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We’ve seen them shorten
the early voting period by a full week,

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because 70 percent of those that use
the first week are African-American.

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We’ve seen them eliminate
same-day registration,

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because 43 percent

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of those that use same-day registration
are African-American.

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And we’ve seen them pass
a strict form of photo ID

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that negatively impacts 300,000 voters.

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This is—this is
a racial

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and class attack on our democracy.

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AMY GOODMAN: That was
Reverend William Barber speaking

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in Washington Sunday

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at an event organized
by Democracy Awakening.

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He’s planning to risk arrest

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during an act of mass civil disobedience
today on Capitol Hill,

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but he’s first joining us
from a studio in Washington, D.C.

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Reverend Barber,
welcome back to Democracy Now!

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Explain why you’ve come
to the nation’s capital.

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REV. WILLIAM BARBER: Well, first of all,
I thank you so much.

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You know, the NAACP,

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along with the Democracy Initiative
and 200 other organizations,

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have called
for this Democracy Awakening, today

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the Congress of Conscience.

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And I’m here today, really,
not only as a NAACP president,

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but as the pastor
of Greenleaf Christian Church

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and the president
of Repairers of the Breach,

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because I believe these are deeply,

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deeply moral issues.

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And when you look at the fact

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that this Congress,
that we have now,

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in its current extreme leadership,

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has—for over 1,027 days,

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has refused to do

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what the 15th Amendment
requires the Congress to do,

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and that is to fix
the Voting Rights Act.

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For over 1,027 days,

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they have refused
to reinstate Section 5.

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That act has allowed states
like North Carolina and others

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to engage in the worst attacks

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on voting rights
and voter suppression

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that we’ve seen
since the 19th century,

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because preclearance
has been basically nullified.

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We see the extreme amounts
of money—$10 billion expected

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to be spent in this election
alone—and the fact

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that they’ve refused to even hear,
do the hearings

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on the Supreme Court nominee
of President Obama.

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Democracy Awakening
and this initiative

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says that this is not the awakening.

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The awakening is already
happening in the country,

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whether you look at the immigration
rights movement; Moral Mondays,

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where more than a thousand people
were arrested,

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as well—80,000 people

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showed up on one occasion;

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Black Lives Matter;

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00:14:42.810 --> 00:14:44.990
fights for—to deal
with environmental justice,

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women’s rights,
the LGBTQ rights.

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What this is signaling, though,

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is kind of a coming together
and recognizing.

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And I believe, Amy,

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that we are right
in the adolescent stage

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00:14:55.860 --> 00:14:57.830
of a third reconstruction,

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and where people are saying
it’s not about Democrat and Republican

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or liberal versus conservative,

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but about how do we address
the extremism

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that’s constitutionally inconsistent,

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morally indefensible
and economically insane.

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And the fact that we have
less voting rights today,

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and the attorney general has less power
to enforce voting rights today,

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than we had in August 6, 1965,

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when Voting Rights Act
was passed, is a travesty,

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and the fact that neither party,
Democrat or Republican,

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in 17—or,

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00:15:29.140 --> 00:15:33.340
16 or 17 debates
have focused on that issue,

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have staked themselves out

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on where they are on the restoration
of the Voting Rights Act,

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and specifically
the fifth—the fifth part of it,

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that allows for preclearance.

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AMY GOODMAN: We’re talking
to Reverend Dr. William Barber,

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president of the North Carolina NAACP,

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who has been participating in
the Democracy Awakening mobilizations.

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I wanted to turn

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right now to a woman
named Alberta Currie,

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00:16:05.540 --> 00:16:07.730
and others like her in North Carolina,

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00:16:07.730 --> 00:16:09.650
lead plaintiff in the Southern Coalition

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00:16:09.650 --> 00:16:11.770
for Social Justice’s legal challenge

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00:16:11.770 --> 00:16:13.590
to North Carolina’s new voter ID law.

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00:16:13.590 --> 00:16:17.180
She has voted
in every election since 1956,

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00:16:17.180 --> 00:16:19.380
but she was unable
to get the photo ID

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00:16:19.380 --> 00:16:20.620
required
by the new law

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00:16:20.620 --> 00:16:23.050
to vote last month
in the North Carolina primaries.

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00:16:23.050 --> 00:16:27.150
She only has an expired
driving license from Virginia,

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00:16:27.150 --> 00:16:28.930
because she no longer drives.

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00:16:28.930 --> 00:16:30.830
She also doesn’t have
a birth certificate,

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00:16:30.830 --> 00:16:34.310
as she was born at home
to a midwife in the segregated South.

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00:16:34.310 --> 00:16:36.840
She’s speaking here
to the Southern Coalition

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00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:38.110
for Social Justice.

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00:16:38.790 --> 00:16:41.130
ALBERTA CURRIE: The way I see this,

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00:16:41.130 --> 00:16:45.590
they keep us from having a right

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00:16:45.590 --> 00:16:47.410
to vote and keep us

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00:16:47.410 --> 00:16:50.270
from putting the right person

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in the election.

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That’s a step backwards.

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00:17:01.020 --> 00:17:03.500
Well, the last time we voted,

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00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:06.370
they told us, "Don’t come back."

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00:17:06.370 --> 00:17:10.330
They told me special not to come back,

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00:17:10.330 --> 00:17:13.130
because I didn’t have
no right to vote.

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00:17:15.530 --> 00:17:17.170
I will need an ID.

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00:17:18.040 --> 00:17:19.530
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Alberta Currie.

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00:17:20.220 --> 00:17:22.340
Reverend Barber, how does this work?

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00:17:24.010 --> 00:17:25.550
REV. WILLIAM BARBER: Well,
it’s deeply—it’s deeply troubling.

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00:17:25.550 --> 00:17:28.170
You know, we have another plaintiff,
as well, Rosanell Eaton,

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00:17:28.170 --> 00:17:29.900
who’s over 90 years old,

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00:17:29.900 --> 00:17:33.280
who had to actually recite the preamble
to the Constitution,

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00:17:33.280 --> 00:17:34.510
as somebody
who couldn’t read,

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00:17:34.510 --> 00:17:37.870
who helped register 5,000 people
to vote over her 90 years.

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00:17:37.870 --> 00:17:40.590
And she also was impacted by this law.

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00:17:41.860 --> 00:17:44.380
And the lady makes two great points.

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Number one, the voter ID
is bad enough.

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00:17:47.670 --> 00:17:49.350
But people need to understand

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that when Shelby
happened after

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00:17:51.990 --> 00:17:54.590
June 25th, 2013, one
of our legislators said,

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00:17:54.590 --> 00:17:56.530
"Now that the headache
has been removed,"

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00:17:56.530 --> 00:17:59.550
because preclearance was no longer
a part of the law.

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00:17:59.550 --> 00:18:01.510
They didn’t not just do voter ID.

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00:18:01.510 --> 00:18:05.130
They ended—tried to end
same-day registration,

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00:18:05.130 --> 00:18:07.840
they cut early voting—all of the tools

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00:18:07.840 --> 00:18:10.310
that were being used,
particularly by African Americans,

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00:18:10.310 --> 00:18:11.880
Latinos and poor people,

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00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:15.650
that had North Carolina
go from in the bottom

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00:18:15.650 --> 00:18:19.270
of voting to the fourth-highest
increase in voting.

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00:18:19.270 --> 00:18:22.250
They even stopped allowing
outer precinct voting

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00:18:22.250 --> 00:18:24.910
and made it easier
for citizens to challenge people

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00:18:24.910 --> 00:18:26.110
while they were in line.

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00:18:26.110 --> 00:18:27.310
This is an all-out attack.

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Most scholars say it’s
the worst attack

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00:18:28.990 --> 00:18:30.720
in the country since Shelby.

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00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:32.070
Now, it began, Amy,

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with the redistricting earlier,

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00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:38.110
which allowed a supermajority not
to get elected but to get put in office,

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00:18:38.110 --> 00:18:43.550
because they cheated by creating
these apartheid districts,

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00:18:43.550 --> 00:18:46.440
voting districts, that are now
being challenged in the court.

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00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:48.300
We’re challenging the law in the court,

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and we’re beginning to win in the court.

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00:18:50.300 --> 00:18:52.120
The Fourth Circuit said
that many of these things,

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on their face, were unconstitutional.

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00:18:54.270 --> 00:18:56.020
But what we see happening here

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00:18:56.550 --> 00:19:00.330
is the extremists
are playing the Southern strategy again.

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00:19:00.330 --> 00:19:04.030
They know that if they can lock up
13 Southern states,

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that gives them 26 senators; 135 members
of the House of Representatives,

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00:19:09.590 --> 00:19:12.130
which is 31 percent
of the House of Representatives;

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00:19:12.130 --> 00:19:14.830
26—13 governors,

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00:19:14.830 --> 00:19:16.770
who control boards of elections

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00:19:16.770 --> 00:19:18.630
and the state legislatures;

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00:19:18.630 --> 00:19:21.150
and 160 electoral votes,

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00:19:21.150 --> 00:19:23.190
which means a person
running for president,

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00:19:23.190 --> 00:19:24.410
if they lock up the South,

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00:19:24.410 --> 00:19:29.250
they only need 102 electoral votes
in the other 37 states.

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00:19:29.250 --> 00:19:32.940
This is a game to try to hold
onto the solid South,

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at the very time

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00:19:34.500 --> 00:19:37.050
that black and white
and Latino coalitions

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00:19:37.050 --> 00:19:39.800
can be built
to break open the solid South

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00:19:39.800 --> 00:19:41.830
that was created
by the Southern strategy.

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So, that woman’s story

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and many, many other stories
are exactly what we’re talking about

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and why we are fighting so hard

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00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:51.040
and why we see this also
as a matter of faith.

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You know, I’m a Christian pastor.

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And in my faith,
the Imago Dei—everybody

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is created in the image of God.

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00:19:58.010 --> 00:20:00.690
Voting was denied
in this country originally

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00:20:00.690 --> 00:20:02.970
because people were considered
three-fifths of a person,

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00:20:02.970 --> 00:20:04.690
not in the image of God.

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00:20:04.690 --> 00:20:07.050
So not only is it bad constitutionally,

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00:20:07.050 --> 00:20:08.450
it is bad theologically,

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00:20:08.450 --> 00:20:10.020
because to deny
the right to vote

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00:20:10.020 --> 00:20:11.500
is literally to suggest

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00:20:11.500 --> 00:20:14.880
that a person does not—is not created
in the image of God,

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00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:18.220
and therefore they can be rendered
to second-class citizenship.

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00:20:18.220 --> 00:20:19.670
AMY GOODMAN: I want to ask,
Reverend Barber,

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00:20:19.670 --> 00:20:22.530
about the recent controversy
around House Bill 2,

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00:20:22.530 --> 00:20:24.160
or HB 2, in North Carolina.

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00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:26.560
Speaking Sunday
to NBC’s Meet the Press,

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00:20:26.560 --> 00:20:28.650
the Republican governor, Pat McCrory,

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00:20:28.650 --> 00:20:32.610
defended his decision to sign a law
nullifying local ordinances

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00:20:32.610 --> 00:20:35.010
to protect LGBT people.

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00:20:35.010 --> 00:20:37.370
Governor McCrory said
the law’s provision

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00:20:37.370 --> 00:20:39.210
preventing transgender people

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00:20:39.210 --> 00:20:40.430
from using the bathroom

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00:20:40.430 --> 00:20:42.380
that corresponds
to their gender identity

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00:20:42.380 --> 00:20:45.760
was passed to fight, quote,
"government overreach."

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00:20:46.550 --> 00:20:48.840
GOV. PAT McCRORY: It was the left
that brought about the bathroom bill,

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00:20:48.840 --> 00:20:51.000
not—not the right,
in the city of Charlotte,

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00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:52.610
like the city of Houston tried to do,

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00:20:52.610 --> 00:20:54.680
and it was rejected
by 61 percent of the vote.

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00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:58.910
The city of Charlotte passed
a bathroom ordinance mandate

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00:20:58.910 --> 00:21:01.470
on every private-sector employer

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00:21:01.470 --> 00:21:04.000
in Charlotte, North Carolina,
one of the largest—15th

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or 16th largest—cities
in the United States of America.

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And I think that’s government overreach.

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It’s not government’s business
to tell the private sector

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00:21:11.610 --> 00:21:13.000
what their bathroom, locker room

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00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:16.290
or shower practices should be.

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00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:18.450
AMY GOODMAN: That’s your governor,

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00:21:18.450 --> 00:21:21.590
Governor McCrory
of North Carolina, Reverend Barber.

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00:21:21.590 --> 00:21:23.230
Your response?

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00:21:23.230 --> 00:21:25.360
REV. WILLIAM BARBER: Yes,
he is my governor, but he’s wrong.

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00:21:25.360 --> 00:21:27.480
He’s lining himself up on the side

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00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:29.080
of the governors of the past

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00:21:29.080 --> 00:21:33.110
who stood for segregation
and discrimination.

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00:21:33.110 --> 00:21:34.800
Now, let me be clear:
They are shrewd.

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00:21:34.800 --> 00:21:37.020
This is not really a bathroom bill.

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00:21:37.020 --> 00:21:39.260
That’s the part we have
to get to the public.

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00:21:39.260 --> 00:21:41.300
This is a hate bill,

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00:21:41.300 --> 00:21:43.750
where the transgender community

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00:21:43.750 --> 00:21:46.050
is being used the same way

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00:21:46.050 --> 00:21:48.570
that Jesse Helms used gay people

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00:21:48.570 --> 00:21:50.980
and race in '84,

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00:21:50.980 --> 00:21:52.960
when he was 40 points
down in the polls

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00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:54.580
and he was running against Jim Hunt.

479
00:21:55.320 --> 00:21:57.260
This is a poisonous brew.

480
00:21:57.260 --> 00:21:59.110
It's old-line, again,

481
00:21:59.110 --> 00:22:01.130
white Southern strategy politics.

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00:22:01.130 --> 00:22:03.650
Governor McCrory is not faring well

483
00:22:03.650 --> 00:22:06.080
in terms of his numbers
and his positives.

484
00:22:06.080 --> 00:22:09.250
Many people see him as having been
a very, very bad governor.

485
00:22:09.250 --> 00:22:12.550
He has presided over the worst
voter suppression laws,

486
00:22:12.550 --> 00:22:14.410
the worst redistricting laws,

487
00:22:14.410 --> 00:22:16.160
the worst attack on unions,

488
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:18.340
the worst attack on same-sex marriage.

489
00:22:19.090 --> 00:22:21.680
He cut more money
from public education

490
00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:23.550
than any other governor before him

491
00:22:23.550 --> 00:22:25.880
and put North Carolina lower
than Mississippi.

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00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:27.900
He’s denied
500,000 people

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00:22:27.900 --> 00:22:31.230
Medicaid expansion—346,000,
by the way, who are white.

494
00:22:31.230 --> 00:22:34.250
The only state governor to cut
the earned income tax credit,

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00:22:34.250 --> 00:22:35.990
that even Ronald Reagan supported.

496
00:22:35.990 --> 00:22:38.480
So he’s not really a Republican,
he’s an extremist.

497
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:40.460
But inside of that bill, Amy,

498
00:22:41.190 --> 00:22:45.180
section 2 denies a municipality

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00:22:45.180 --> 00:22:49.230
or a city the ability
to raise a living wage,

500
00:22:49.770 --> 00:22:51.920
require contractors
to pay a living wage,

501
00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:54.040
to pay sick leave,
to pay vacation

502
00:22:54.040 --> 00:22:55.840
and to have minority set-asides.

503
00:22:55.840 --> 00:22:58.320
So this is an anti-family, anti-labor,

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00:22:58.320 --> 00:23:00.950
anti-worker bill, as well.

505
00:23:00.950 --> 00:23:02.930
In the third section, this bill

506
00:23:02.930 --> 00:23:05.160
disallows citizens of North Carolina

507
00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:07.520
from filing
employment discrimination cases

508
00:23:07.520 --> 00:23:08.680
in state court.

509
00:23:09.210 --> 00:23:10.680
So this is a trick bill,

510
00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:14.110
and the transgender community
is being used the same way

511
00:23:14.110 --> 00:23:16.630
black people were used
in the past or Latino people.

512
00:23:16.630 --> 00:23:18.200
They are being scapegoated

513
00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:19.860
in order to pass

514
00:23:19.860 --> 00:23:23.730
all of these anti-poverty—anti-labor

515
00:23:23.730 --> 00:23:25.830
and anti-living wage parts of the bill.

516
00:23:25.830 --> 00:23:27.120
AMY GOODMAN: Reverend Barber,
very quickly;

517
00:23:27.120 --> 00:23:29.120
we have less than a minute.
Bruce Springsteen

518
00:23:29.120 --> 00:23:30.760
canceled a concert
in North Carolina.

519
00:23:30.760 --> 00:23:33.200
PayPal and Deutsche Bank
said they would scrap plans

520
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:35.380
for expansions in North Carolina.

521
00:23:35.380 --> 00:23:38.590
Against Me! singer Laura Jane Grace,
who’s transgender, has announced

522
00:23:38.590 --> 00:23:41.360
that the band will perform
their May 15th concert

523
00:23:41.360 --> 00:23:43.650
in Durham, North Carolina,
as a form of protest.

524
00:23:43.650 --> 00:23:45.640
In these last 15 seconds, though,

525
00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:48.690
explain what you’re going to do
after you leave this show today.

526
00:23:49.350 --> 00:23:51.040
REV. WILLIAM BARBER: Well,
we actually have a major sit-in

527
00:23:51.040 --> 00:23:54.220
on House Bill—on
Hate Bill 2 on April 25th.

528
00:23:54.220 --> 00:23:55.920
You can go on the NAACP website.

529
00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:57.120
We want people to come.

530
00:23:57.120 --> 00:23:58.540
We’re doing a major sit-in

531
00:23:58.540 --> 00:24:00.500
to challenge it,
to again show

532
00:24:00.500 --> 00:24:03.210
that this is fusion politics in reverse.

533
00:24:03.210 --> 00:24:04.670
This is wrong for what’s happening.

534
00:24:04.670 --> 00:24:06.450
This is nothing
but race baiting

535
00:24:06.450 --> 00:24:07.960
and sex baiting

536
00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:09.810
in the middle of an election season.

537
00:24:09.810 --> 00:24:11.680
We’re fighting hard in the South.

538
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:14.020
And I’m also leaving
on a revival tour

539
00:24:14.020 --> 00:24:15.490
with Jim Forbes, Traci Blackmon

540
00:24:15.490 --> 00:24:17.340
and Sister Simone,

541
00:24:17.340 --> 00:24:19.190
with Nuns on the Bus,
across this country,

542
00:24:19.190 --> 00:24:21.690
declaring that we need a revival.

543
00:24:21.690 --> 00:24:24.930
It’s time for a moral revolution
of values in this country.

544
00:24:24.930 --> 00:24:27.270
AMY GOODMAN: Reverend William Barber,
I want to thank you for being with us,

545
00:24:27.270 --> 00:24:31.040
president of the North Carolina NAACP
and Moral Monday leader.

546
00:24:31.040 --> 00:24:33.550
He is headed to the Capitol right now

547
00:24:33.550 --> 00:24:36.450
to the Democracy
Awakening mobilizations,

548
00:24:36.450 --> 00:24:39.770
where he’ll participate
in more mass civil disobedience.

549
00:24:39.770 --> 00:24:43.020
Over 900 people have been
arrested in the last week.

550
00:24:43.020 --> 00:24:45.790
This is Democracy Now!
When we come back,

551
00:24:45.790 --> 00:24:49.850
could the seafood
you eat have been caught by a slave?

552
00:24:49.850 --> 00:24:51.100
Stay with us.

553
00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:52.710
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!,
democracynow.org,

554
00:25:52.710 --> 00:25:54.510
The War and Peace Report.
I’m Amy Goodman.

555
00:25:54.510 --> 00:25:56.840
We’re on the road
in San Francisco.

556
00:25:56.840 --> 00:25:59.060
Is seafood on the menu tonight?

557
00:25:59.060 --> 00:26:02.640
Well, there’s a chance
it might have been caught by a slave.

558
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:04.130
That’s what the Associated Press

559
00:26:04.130 --> 00:26:06.940
uncovered when reporters traveled
to the remote island

560
00:26:06.940 --> 00:26:10.010
of Benjina in Indonesia.

561
00:26:10.010 --> 00:26:12.480
They found workers trapped in cages,

562
00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:15.680
whipped with toxic stingray tails
for punishment,

563
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:17.320
and forced to work
22 hours a day

564
00:26:17.320 --> 00:26:19.250
for almost no compensation.

565
00:26:19.250 --> 00:26:22.510
The video is part
of the AP’s groundbreaking report

566
00:26:22.510 --> 00:26:26.170
on slave labor
in the seafood industry. Listen.

567
00:26:26.170 --> 00:26:28.470
NARRATOR: Some of the slaves
are kept in cramped cages,

568
00:26:28.470 --> 00:26:30.210
sitting on concrete floors.

569
00:26:30.210 --> 00:26:33.670
Flies buzz around the rusty bars
that imprison them.

570
00:26:33.670 --> 00:26:35.840
Kyaw Naing just wants to go home.

571
00:26:35.840 --> 00:26:38.860
KYAW NAING: [translated]
I am not fed enough, as well.

572
00:26:38.860 --> 00:26:41.150
I feel so sorry
it’s not only me.

573
00:26:41.150 --> 00:26:43.180
It’s everyone that people are sad.

574
00:26:43.690 --> 00:26:45.660
NARRATOR: Another man says
he was shipped here

575
00:26:45.660 --> 00:26:47.780
with fake documents against his will.

576
00:26:47.780 --> 00:26:50.200
MAUNG SOE: [translated] They tricked me.

577
00:26:50.200 --> 00:26:52.270
They lied to me and put me on the boat.

578
00:26:54.680 --> 00:26:56.390
NARRATOR: They are two
of potentially hundreds

579
00:26:56.390 --> 00:26:58.620
of modern slaves in Indonesia

580
00:26:58.620 --> 00:26:59.980
forced to work boats

581
00:26:59.980 --> 00:27:01.480
that supply fish

582
00:27:01.480 --> 00:27:03.570
that can taint
an export supply chain

583
00:27:03.570 --> 00:27:06.340
of products sold in the United States.

584
00:27:06.340 --> 00:27:09.230
They’re forced to work
at times 22-hour days,

585
00:27:09.230 --> 00:27:12.040
with no days off
and little or no pay.

586
00:27:12.040 --> 00:27:13.960
Some claim there are beatings.

587
00:27:13.960 --> 00:27:15.680
At times, men die.

588
00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:16.960
AMY GOODMAN: According to the AP,

589
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:19.360
some of the seafood
caught by slave laborers

590
00:27:19.360 --> 00:27:21.220
winds up in American grocery stores,

591
00:27:21.220 --> 00:27:23.090
restaurants,
even cat food.

592
00:27:23.090 --> 00:27:25.030
The AP dug into customs records

593
00:27:25.030 --> 00:27:26.600
and found U.S. recipients

594
00:27:26.600 --> 00:27:27.830
of slave labor seafood

595
00:27:27.830 --> 00:27:30.530
include Wal-Mart, Kroger,
Albertsons, Safeway and others.

596
00:27:30.530 --> 00:27:32.710
As a result
of the AP investigations,

597
00:27:32.710 --> 00:27:36.450
more than 2,000 trapped fishermen
have been freed,

598
00:27:36.450 --> 00:27:38.950
more than a dozen
alleged traffickers arrested,

599
00:27:38.950 --> 00:27:41.860
and millions of dollars’ worth
of seafood and vessels seized.

600
00:27:41.860 --> 00:27:45.000
This is the story of one
of the freed men, Myint Naing.

601
00:27:45.740 --> 00:27:48.620
NARRATOR: This is the homecoming
freed slave Myint Naing

602
00:27:48.620 --> 00:27:50.900
has been waiting for all his adult life.

603
00:27:51.560 --> 00:27:55.130
Tricked into becoming a slave
on a fishing boat as a teenager,

604
00:27:55.130 --> 00:27:57.430
he hasn’t seen his family in Myanmar

605
00:27:57.430 --> 00:28:02.670
for 22 years—until now.

606
00:28:02.670 --> 00:28:04.800
That’s his sister,
who was just 10

607
00:28:04.800 --> 00:28:06.740
when they last saw each other.

608
00:28:06.740 --> 00:28:09.930
Moments later, he sees his mother.

609
00:28:12.430 --> 00:28:19.940
The emotions are overwhelming.

610
00:28:20.460 --> 00:28:22.610
For his mother, it is too much.

611
00:28:22.610 --> 00:28:24.560
She collapses and has to be revived.

612
00:28:24.560 --> 00:28:28.060
MYINT NAING: [translated]

613
00:28:28.060 --> 00:28:29.440
I’m so very,

614
00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:31.550
very happy that I’m able
to see my mother

615
00:28:31.550 --> 00:28:33.200
and my own siblings again.

616
00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:35.990
Unendingly happy.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Democracy Now!

617
00:28:35.990 --> 00:28:38.170
recently spoke to two of the reporters

618
00:28:38.170 --> 00:28:40.530
who broke this remarkable story.

619
00:28:40.530 --> 00:28:43.680
Robin McDowell is the Associated
Press Burma correspondent.

620
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:46.200
Martha Mendoza is the Pulitzer
Prize-winning Associated

621
00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:47.820
Press national writer.

622
00:28:47.820 --> 00:28:50.230
We caught up with them in Los Angeles

623
00:28:50.230 --> 00:28:51.570
on our 100-city tour

624
00:28:51.570 --> 00:28:54.190
just before they headed
to the University of Southern California

625
00:28:54.190 --> 00:28:57.220
to receive the 2016 Selden Ring Award

626
00:28:57.220 --> 00:29:00.810
for Investigative Reporting
for this remarkable series.

627
00:29:00.810 --> 00:29:03.140
It’s also a contender

628
00:29:03.140 --> 00:29:05.090
for the Pulitzer Prizes,

629
00:29:05.090 --> 00:29:08.170
which will be announced today
at 3:00 p.m. Eastern time.

630
00:29:08.170 --> 00:29:09.980
I began by asking Robin McDowell

631
00:29:09.980 --> 00:29:12.820
how she discovered
this slave island in Indonesia.

632
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:16.040
ROBIN McDOWELL: I had been
living in Southeast Asia

633
00:29:16.040 --> 00:29:18.100
for nearly two decades,

634
00:29:18.100 --> 00:29:19.910
together with colleague Margie Mason.

635
00:29:21.050 --> 00:29:23.080
And we had been
hearing for years,

636
00:29:23.080 --> 00:29:24.430
as many had,

637
00:29:24.430 --> 00:29:27.980
about the use of forced labor
on fishing trawlers in the Thai fleets.

638
00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:33.240
It was something
that was reported largely,

639
00:29:33.800 --> 00:29:35.850
at that point,
through people

640
00:29:35.850 --> 00:29:37.870
who had been either rescued

641
00:29:37.870 --> 00:29:40.150
or had run away off of ships.

642
00:29:40.150 --> 00:29:43.110
No one had actually spoken to men
who were on boats

643
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:47.460
or captive on the islands,
as we had found.

644
00:29:48.280 --> 00:29:50.090
So, the goal from the very beginning

645
00:29:50.090 --> 00:29:51.570
was to find a way
to find people

646
00:29:51.570 --> 00:29:53.680
who were actually captive slaves,

647
00:29:53.680 --> 00:29:56.540
to trace that fish back
to the American dinner table

648
00:29:56.540 --> 00:29:59.490
and, most importantly, to name names.

649
00:29:59.490 --> 00:30:00.720
AMY GOODMAN: And how did you do it?

650
00:30:01.720 --> 00:30:05.300
ROBIN McDOWELL: Well, it took
about a year of networking,

651
00:30:05.300 --> 00:30:08.760
talking—you know, scrolling
the internet, going through documents.

652
00:30:08.760 --> 00:30:13.550
And it really was—everyplace
that we went, people told us, basically,

653
00:30:13.550 --> 00:30:15.600
"Yes, others have tried this.

654
00:30:15.600 --> 00:30:17.230
It’s nearly impossible."

655
00:30:17.230 --> 00:30:20.540
Documents are regularly falsified.
People lie.

656
00:30:20.540 --> 00:30:24.710
There is trans-shipment
on reefer ships, you know, so,

657
00:30:24.710 --> 00:30:26.660
in other words, clean fish,

658
00:30:26.660 --> 00:30:28.370
fish that is caught legally,

659
00:30:28.370 --> 00:30:30.950
is mixed together
with slave-caught fish.

660
00:30:31.840 --> 00:30:34.860
At the auction markets
in the Thai port town,

661
00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:37.060
fish is bought by,

662
00:30:37.060 --> 00:30:39.560
you know, companies
that don’t know—at that point,

663
00:30:39.560 --> 00:30:41.300
there’s absolutely no trace

664
00:30:41.300 --> 00:30:44.510
of what fish has been caught
by forced labor and what fish has not.

665
00:30:44.510 --> 00:30:47.760
So, it was really something
that was so murky,

666
00:30:47.760 --> 00:30:50.100
we had to get it
little piece by piece.

667
00:30:51.430 --> 00:30:53.550
And we really didn’t know what we had,

668
00:30:53.550 --> 00:30:55.860
until we were told
that there were some men

669
00:30:55.860 --> 00:30:59.740
who had been abandoned
on islands in Indonesia.

670
00:30:59.740 --> 00:31:01.620
And so, it was basically going there

671
00:31:01.620 --> 00:31:03.760
and finding it and hearing their stories
that they tell.

672
00:31:03.760 --> 00:31:05.580
AMY GOODMAN: So tell us
what exactly you found there.

673
00:31:06.780 --> 00:31:10.250
ROBIN McDOWELL: Well, initially,
on arriving on the island,

674
00:31:10.250 --> 00:31:12.780
it looked like a huge fishing company.

675
00:31:14.910 --> 00:31:16.600
Things didn’t go quickly.

676
00:31:16.600 --> 00:31:20.000
We didn’t find immediately—or we didn’t
realize

677
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:22.500
immediately this was an island
of slaves, that this was slave labor.

678
00:31:22.500 --> 00:31:25.010
AMY GOODMAN: This is Benjina, Indonesia?
ROBIN McDOWELL: This is Benjina, yes.

679
00:31:25.010 --> 00:31:27.430
The village of Benjina is on one side

680
00:31:27.430 --> 00:31:30.140
of a large canal.

681
00:31:30.140 --> 00:31:33.500
About 200 meters away

682
00:31:33.500 --> 00:31:35.200
is the other part
of the island.

683
00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:36.560
And that’s where the factory was,

684
00:31:36.560 --> 00:31:38.860
with the boats,
the fishing trawlers, the men.

685
00:31:38.860 --> 00:31:41.140
So, for the first day or two,

686
00:31:41.140 --> 00:31:43.560
it was mostly looking
across that waterway,

687
00:31:43.560 --> 00:31:45.170
trying to figure out
how are we going

688
00:31:45.170 --> 00:31:47.000
to find out really
what’s going on here.

689
00:31:49.210 --> 00:31:51.590
Initially, the first clues
came from the brothels

690
00:31:51.590 --> 00:31:54.100
on the side of the village, which,

691
00:31:54.690 --> 00:31:56.870
it turned out,
on speaking to them,

692
00:31:56.870 --> 00:31:59.560
that they were servicing
mostly Burmese fishermen,

693
00:31:59.560 --> 00:32:01.440
and they said dozens, maybe hundreds.

694
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:03.800
So that was when we really got a sense,

695
00:32:03.800 --> 00:32:06.940
OK, this is—this is
a big operation.

696
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:12.260
It wasn’t until two or three days later,

697
00:32:12.260 --> 00:32:14.480
when I was able to get in touch

698
00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:16.830
with our Burmese colleague,
Esther Htusan,

699
00:32:16.830 --> 00:32:18.800
who is also a member of the team,

700
00:32:18.800 --> 00:32:21.270
and she embarked
on a 30-hour journey

701
00:32:21.270 --> 00:32:22.950
by boat, by plane,

702
00:32:22.950 --> 00:32:25.590
and arrived on the island.

703
00:32:25.590 --> 00:32:27.820
When those men saw her

704
00:32:27.820 --> 00:32:30.770
and for the first time
saw a Burmese compatriot

705
00:32:32.190 --> 00:32:33.660
and she told them, "We’re here

706
00:32:33.660 --> 00:32:38.640
to tell your story," they just
could not wait to talk.

707
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:40.360
They took tremendous risks.

708
00:32:40.360 --> 00:32:44.140
They would chase us down pathways, kind
of jamming paper into her hands, saying,

709
00:32:44.140 --> 00:32:47.230
"Please, tell our family
that we’re alive,"

710
00:32:47.230 --> 00:32:49.250
telling horrific stories, much worse

711
00:32:49.250 --> 00:32:53.360
than we had been hearing from others
in Thailand on the—you know,

712
00:32:53.360 --> 00:32:57.230
where most of the abuses
had been reported up until then.

713
00:32:57.230 --> 00:32:58.830
AMY GOODMAN: You found men in cages?

714
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:00.870
ROBIN McDOWELL: Yes, we did.

715
00:33:00.870 --> 00:33:03.200
We knew—actually, before we got there,

716
00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:05.420
we saw, on the day
before we arrived,

717
00:33:05.420 --> 00:33:07.140
a picture of a man
in a cage.

718
00:33:07.140 --> 00:33:11.160
So we knew that was really
the goal at that moment.

719
00:33:11.910 --> 00:33:15.260
There was—we knew there was someplace
near the factory grounds

720
00:33:15.260 --> 00:33:16.480
that men were being held.

721
00:33:17.080 --> 00:33:21.080
And we told our photographer

722
00:33:21.080 --> 00:33:24.110
and our videographer,
"This is the goal for you.

723
00:33:24.110 --> 00:33:26.280
You need to prove
that this is happening."

724
00:33:27.760 --> 00:33:31.110
And when they found it, it was something

725
00:33:31.110 --> 00:33:34.550
that the company
was not even ashamed of.

726
00:33:35.120 --> 00:33:38.780
They showed them—they showed
the videographer and the photographer

727
00:33:38.780 --> 00:33:42.190
as what was supposed to be a tour
of "this is our fishing industry."

728
00:33:42.190 --> 00:33:44.690
It had been going on
for such a long time.

729
00:33:44.690 --> 00:33:46.510
They had been operating with impunity.

730
00:33:47.060 --> 00:33:49.240
They had no fear
at that moment,

731
00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:51.460
in the early—when they didn’t—before
they realized

732
00:33:51.460 --> 00:33:53.480
we were doing an investigation.

733
00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:55.210
They just kind of like skirted

734
00:33:55.210 --> 00:33:58.650
them near this cage,

735
00:33:58.650 --> 00:34:01.960
which was basically a company jail
with concrete floors.

736
00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:03.580
And, you know, they’d go to the bathroom

737
00:34:04.490 --> 00:34:07.390
inside this makeshift prison.

738
00:34:08.810 --> 00:34:11.040
And so, they got a couple
of glimpses with the camera,

739
00:34:11.040 --> 00:34:12.780
before they were kind of ushered away.

740
00:34:13.390 --> 00:34:14.470
AMY GOODMAN: Robin McDowell,

741
00:34:15.180 --> 00:34:17.820
how did these men get enslaved?

742
00:34:19.950 --> 00:34:22.680
ROBIN McDOWELL: Well, it has a lot
to do with poverty.

743
00:34:22.680 --> 00:34:23.970
In the case of Myanmar,

744
00:34:23.970 --> 00:34:27.280
many of them were recruited
during the days of dictatorship.

745
00:34:27.280 --> 00:34:29.390
There were no jobs
in their villages.

746
00:34:30.040 --> 00:34:32.610
And they went to Thailand
in search of work,

747
00:34:32.610 --> 00:34:35.970
usually with the help
of a broker or agent,

748
00:34:35.970 --> 00:34:38.270
who would tell them,
"OK, there’s a job for you I have.

749
00:34:38.270 --> 00:34:41.430
I have something in a plantation
or a clothing factory."

750
00:34:42.350 --> 00:34:45.160
Once they got there,
once they got to Thailand,

751
00:34:45.160 --> 00:34:46.880
they were often tricked,

752
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:51.350
sometimes kidnapped, sometimes
drugged and brought to,

753
00:34:51.350 --> 00:34:52.960
you know, rooms or buildings,

754
00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:55.440
where they would be held
until they could get enough fishermen,

755
00:34:55.440 --> 00:34:57.210
and then put on
those boats. But—

756
00:34:57.210 --> 00:34:59.010
AMY GOODMAN: Is it usually men?
ROBIN McDOWELL: Yes.

757
00:34:59.010 --> 00:35:00.250
It’s always men.
AMY GOODMAN: Why?

758
00:35:00.990 --> 00:35:03.500
ROBIN McDOWELL: I think they’re
very good—they’re better workers.

759
00:35:03.500 --> 00:35:04.970
They’re stronger.

760
00:35:05.970 --> 00:35:08.180
It’s a very labor-intensive job.

761
00:35:09.170 --> 00:35:13.300
They’re really working 22 hours
straight—22 hours a day,

762
00:35:13.300 --> 00:35:14.610
sometimes longer,

763
00:35:14.610 --> 00:35:16.430
depending on how many—you know,

764
00:35:16.430 --> 00:35:18.210
if it’s high season
or low season.

765
00:35:18.210 --> 00:35:20.620
I think most of them cannot tolerate it.

766
00:35:20.620 --> 00:35:23.370
It would be very hard
for a woman to, as well.

767
00:35:23.370 --> 00:35:27.890
AMY GOODMAN: And talk about
how this investigation unfolded.

768
00:35:27.890 --> 00:35:31.610
Had you intended to do
this long series on,

769
00:35:31.610 --> 00:35:34.370
well, perhaps
the fish you buy

770
00:35:34.370 --> 00:35:36.520
may have been caught by slaves?

771
00:35:36.520 --> 00:35:40.240
MARTHA MENDOZA: We definitely intended
to find men who were captive

772
00:35:40.240 --> 00:35:43.310
and track their product back
and figure out where it went.

773
00:35:43.310 --> 00:35:46.060
But then, once that story broke,

774
00:35:46.060 --> 00:35:48.050
the authorities went back to Benjina,

775
00:35:48.050 --> 00:35:50.740
and something happened
that never happens in journalism:

776
00:35:50.740 --> 00:35:52.570
They began freeing these men.

777
00:35:52.570 --> 00:35:54.970
Robin was there on that day.

778
00:35:54.970 --> 00:35:56.960
And it was—it was
like an exodus.

779
00:35:56.960 --> 00:35:58.460
It was unbelievable.

780
00:35:58.460 --> 00:36:00.590
AMY GOODMAN: Robin, explain
that moment to us.

781
00:36:00.590 --> 00:36:02.360
When was it?

782
00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:05.110
ROBIN McDOWELL: Nine days
after the story was published,

783
00:36:05.110 --> 00:36:07.610
the Indonesian government
wanted to go to the island

784
00:36:07.610 --> 00:36:09.080
to investigate on their own.

785
00:36:09.700 --> 00:36:10.810
And they went,

786
00:36:11.320 --> 00:36:12.410
and they brought us with them.

787
00:36:13.080 --> 00:36:17.310
And they started interviewing
the company site manager,

788
00:36:17.310 --> 00:36:20.170
financial chief and others.

789
00:36:20.170 --> 00:36:24.100
And, you know,
we told—and through a translator,

790
00:36:24.100 --> 00:36:28.930
they took aside
about 20 Burmese fishermen

791
00:36:28.930 --> 00:36:32.860
and started interviewing them
and asking them about their experiences

792
00:36:32.860 --> 00:36:34.280
at sea.

793
00:36:34.280 --> 00:36:37.700
And they were horrified
by what they were hearing.

794
00:36:38.770 --> 00:36:42.400
Not only were they hearing
about abusive captains in the waters,

795
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:45.900
but also beatings
when they returned to land.

796
00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:47.610
So, because the Thai captains

797
00:36:47.610 --> 00:36:50.840
could not actually beat them
on Indonesian soil,

798
00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:53.930
they would hire someone
that they called the enforcer,

799
00:36:53.930 --> 00:36:56.840
and they would bring them up
and march them to the top

800
00:36:56.840 --> 00:36:58.510
of a hill near a flagpole

801
00:36:58.510 --> 00:37:02.050
with an Indonesian flag hanging up,
handcuff them and beat them

802
00:37:02.050 --> 00:37:03.350
until they couldn’t stand anymore,

803
00:37:03.350 --> 00:37:06.000
and then, in some cases, put them
in a little hut up there

804
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:07.420
for a month or two at a time.

805
00:37:07.420 --> 00:37:09.420
AMY GOODMAN: What would they gain
by beating them like this?

806
00:37:09.420 --> 00:37:10.910
ROBIN McDOWELL: Intimidation.

807
00:37:10.910 --> 00:37:14.530
In this case, it was often people
who they saw as troublemakers, people

808
00:37:14.530 --> 00:37:16.220
who were threatening to run away

809
00:37:16.220 --> 00:37:18.180
or demanding to come home—to go home.

810
00:37:18.180 --> 00:37:21.050
AMY GOODMAN: Some were whipped
by stingrays?

811
00:37:21.050 --> 00:37:23.130
ROBIN McDOWELL: Yes, that’s right.
AMY GOODMAN: Explain.

812
00:37:23.130 --> 00:37:26.950
ROBIN McDOWELL: Well, it was
the tail of the stingray,

813
00:37:26.950 --> 00:37:28.920
and it gives a little shock.

814
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:31.450
So, not only does it break the skin,

815
00:37:31.450 --> 00:37:34.480
it kind of numbs the skin
and gives it—it adds to the pain

816
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:36.870
and adds to the misery, basically.
It’s a form of torture.

817
00:37:36.870 --> 00:37:39.140
AMY GOODMAN: So,
when the men were released,

818
00:37:40.130 --> 00:37:43.040
the moment, what was that scene?

819
00:37:43.040 --> 00:37:46.330
ROBIN McDOWELL: So, the officials
were speaking to about 20 men.

820
00:37:46.330 --> 00:37:49.660
And when they realized it would be
dangerous to leave the island

821
00:37:49.660 --> 00:37:52.840
and have those men
be with their abusers,

822
00:37:52.840 --> 00:37:54.580
they told them, "OK.

823
00:37:54.580 --> 00:37:56.720
We’re going to bring you home.
We’re not leaving you here.

824
00:37:56.720 --> 00:37:58.040
It’s not safe."

825
00:37:58.040 --> 00:38:00.000
And I asked them
at that time, "Wait.

826
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:02.330
Do you mean these 20 guys

827
00:38:02.330 --> 00:38:03.750
or everybody?"

828
00:38:03.750 --> 00:38:05.400
And they said, "Everybody.
We can’t take them."

829
00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:08.710
And I think at that moment
they did not realize quite

830
00:38:08.710 --> 00:38:10.390
how many men were on that island,

831
00:38:11.460 --> 00:38:13.440
because first it was the 20,

832
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:15.000
and then, as word
started to spread

833
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:17.740
in the surrounding—in
the surrounding hills

834
00:38:17.740 --> 00:38:20.500
and the woods, that people
were going to get to go home,

835
00:38:21.470 --> 00:38:22.830
more and more people came out.

836
00:38:22.830 --> 00:38:27.190
And pretty soon,
there were like 50, 100, 200, 300.

837
00:38:27.190 --> 00:38:31.000
And everybody, as soon
as they realized,

838
00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:32.750
OK, you’re going home tonight,

839
00:38:32.750 --> 00:38:34.280
they start running
to their boat,

840
00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:36.900
and they would just leap
over the rails of the boat

841
00:38:36.900 --> 00:38:39.270
and through the windows and grab
at their belongings, you know,

842
00:38:39.270 --> 00:38:40.770
whatever they could find—their shirts,

843
00:38:40.770 --> 00:38:43.850
their toothbrush—jam them
in plastic bags

844
00:38:43.850 --> 00:38:46.160
and then run back to be counted.

845
00:38:47.420 --> 00:38:51.550
It was really—it was
really remarkable, remarkable scene.

846
00:38:51.550 --> 00:38:54.170
AMY GOODMAN: And did you hear from them
once they went home?

847
00:38:54.170 --> 00:38:56.870
They hadn’t seen family members
sometime in how long?

848
00:38:58.240 --> 00:38:59.830
ROBIN McDOWELL: Well,
the longest that we found,

849
00:38:59.830 --> 00:39:01.660
that our colleague Margie Mason found,

850
00:39:01.660 --> 00:39:03.370
was 22 years.

851
00:39:03.370 --> 00:39:05.640
AMY GOODMAN: I want to go to one

852
00:39:05.640 --> 00:39:08.470
among those kept in cages

853
00:39:08.470 --> 00:39:11.550
on the remote Indonesian island
village of Benjina.

854
00:39:11.550 --> 00:39:13.430
He was one of the migrant fishermen

855
00:39:13.430 --> 00:39:16.070
rescued during
the Associated Press investigation

856
00:39:16.070 --> 00:39:18.270
into slavery in the seafood industry.

857
00:39:18.270 --> 00:39:20.950
Let’s go to an excerpt
of an AP report.

858
00:39:20.950 --> 00:39:23.420
NARRATOR: It was a day
Kyaw Naing feared would never happen,

859
00:39:23.420 --> 00:39:27.140
reunited with his brother
in the small village he left years ago.

860
00:39:27.140 --> 00:39:29.770
Just days earlier, Kyaw Naing
and seven other men

861
00:39:29.770 --> 00:39:31.510
flew home to Myanmar,

862
00:39:31.510 --> 00:39:34.300
after years of being used as slaves
on Thai fishing boats.

863
00:39:34.300 --> 00:39:35.990
KYAW NAING: [translated] I’m so happy.

864
00:39:35.990 --> 00:39:38.650
There are no words
to describe my happiness.

865
00:39:38.650 --> 00:39:42.160
NARRATOR: Late last year, Kyaw Naing
was discovered by the Associated Press

866
00:39:42.160 --> 00:39:44.060
in the remote Indonesian village
of Benjina.

867
00:39:44.060 --> 00:39:45.710
He spoke of his life as a slave

868
00:39:45.710 --> 00:39:47.550
from behind the bars
of a rusty cage.

869
00:39:47.550 --> 00:39:51.620
He had been locked up
for asking to go home,

870
00:39:51.620 --> 00:39:53.560
because he could no longer
lift the heavy nets

871
00:39:53.560 --> 00:39:55.020
to pull in the lucrative catch.

872
00:39:55.020 --> 00:39:57.770
KYAW NAING: [translated]
There were people who died on the boat.

873
00:39:57.770 --> 00:40:00.450
What I want to say is the priority
was pulling out the fish.

874
00:40:00.450 --> 00:40:03.770
And because the owners wanted fish,
they had to give their lives.

875
00:40:03.770 --> 00:40:06.390
For the owners, the fish
were more valuable than us.

876
00:40:07.910 --> 00:40:11.920
AMY GOODMAN: Kyaw Naing’s return home
to his native Burma.

877
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:15.630
How many slaves were freed as a result

878
00:40:15.630 --> 00:40:17.910
of the AP investigation?
Do you know, Robin?

879
00:40:17.910 --> 00:40:19.390
ROBIN McDOWELL: There were
more than 2,000.

880
00:40:20.270 --> 00:40:23.220
AMY GOODMAN: And how many still
exist today, enslaved?

881
00:40:23.220 --> 00:40:26.750
ROBIN McDOWELL: We believe most
of those who were on the islands

882
00:40:26.750 --> 00:40:28.630
in eastern Indonesia are now home.

883
00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:31.390
AMY GOODMAN: And how did you
track the boats?

884
00:40:31.390 --> 00:40:33.810
Talk about the technology you used.

885
00:40:34.360 --> 00:40:36.090
ROBIN McDOWELL: Well,
we tracked several boats.

886
00:40:36.090 --> 00:40:38.380
The boat that we actually
tracked from Benjina

887
00:40:38.380 --> 00:40:40.850
to the Thai port town
of Samut Sakhon

888
00:40:40.850 --> 00:40:43.190
was done with a satellite tracker

889
00:40:43.190 --> 00:40:44.920
that was on the boat already.

890
00:40:45.470 --> 00:40:48.580
And this is something
that most boats have.

891
00:40:48.580 --> 00:40:51.690
When they’re on international waters,
they’re obligated to turn them on.

892
00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:56.260
They did not realize, obviously,
that we were tracking them.

893
00:40:56.260 --> 00:40:59.120
So, we were aware of this boat
and these companies,

894
00:40:59.120 --> 00:41:03.500
and had been kind of watching them
on the internet beforehand.

895
00:41:03.500 --> 00:41:05.640
We knew what the process was.

896
00:41:05.640 --> 00:41:07.960
But after we saw the fish being loaded

897
00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:11.130
onto these refrigerated cargo ships—one,
in particular,

898
00:41:11.130 --> 00:41:14.450
Silver Sea
Line—we watched that and tracked it,

899
00:41:14.450 --> 00:41:16.900
the three of us, basically,

900
00:41:16.900 --> 00:41:19.930
as it crossed a 15-day journey

901
00:41:19.930 --> 00:41:23.610
to the Thai port town of Samut Sakhon.

902
00:41:23.610 --> 00:41:25.070
MARTHA MENDOZA: When we found out
that boats had fled

903
00:41:25.070 --> 00:41:26.810
from the island
with more slaves on board,

904
00:41:26.810 --> 00:41:30.830
Robin began really pressuring me
to find the boats.

905
00:41:30.830 --> 00:41:33.580
And we asked a satellite company

906
00:41:33.580 --> 00:41:35.660
if they could task a camera

907
00:41:35.660 --> 00:41:37.560
on a region above Papua New Guinea

908
00:41:37.560 --> 00:41:39.330
and take a large photo

909
00:41:39.330 --> 00:41:42.210
and try to actually find the boats.
And they did.

910
00:41:42.210 --> 00:41:44.350
They found more boats.
And the authorities—

911
00:41:44.350 --> 00:41:47.480
AMY GOODMAN: And they could also find
them because of these trackers on them?

912
00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:49.640
MARTHA MENDOZA: Nope.
OK, so these second batch

913
00:41:49.640 --> 00:41:52.320
of boats that had fled Benjina
didn’t have trackers on them,

914
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:54.250
but some men had escaped,

915
00:41:54.250 --> 00:41:56.760
and some of the owners
of these boats

916
00:41:56.760 --> 00:41:58.670
had also gotten fishing licenses

917
00:41:58.670 --> 00:42:00.860
in a fishery area
near Papua New Guinea.

918
00:42:00.860 --> 00:42:03.610
So we had an idea
of a 500-square-mile region

919
00:42:03.610 --> 00:42:05.250
that might have them in them.

920
00:42:05.250 --> 00:42:08.100
They—DigitalGlobe,
a company out of Boulder,

921
00:42:08.100 --> 00:42:09.360
tasked their cameras;

922
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:12.610
a satellite passed over,
shot a huge swath of ocean.

923
00:42:12.610 --> 00:42:14.110
And when they zoomed in,

924
00:42:14.110 --> 00:42:17.060
we were—saw more boats
that looked like ours.

925
00:42:17.060 --> 00:42:19.040
We shared these photos

926
00:42:19.040 --> 00:42:21.150
with some of the escaped slaves

927
00:42:21.150 --> 00:42:24.210
and freed slaves, who confirmed
those were the boats.

928
00:42:24.210 --> 00:42:27.790
And the military, the navy moved in

929
00:42:27.790 --> 00:42:30.190
and seized them,
and more slaves were freed,

930
00:42:30.190 --> 00:42:31.940
and more people were arrested.

931
00:42:31.940 --> 00:42:35.650
AMY GOODMAN: Martha Mendoza
and Robin McDowell,

932
00:42:35.650 --> 00:42:37.410
up for a Pulitzer Prize today

933
00:42:37.410 --> 00:42:39.320
for their groundbreaking exposé,

934
00:42:39.320 --> 00:42:40.860
"Seafood from Slaves."

935
00:42:40.860 --> 00:42:43.030
We’ll be back with them in 30 seconds.

936
00:42:43.030 --> 00:43:24.560
[break]

937
00:43:24.560 --> 00:43:27.720
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy
Now!, democracynow.org,

938
00:43:27.720 --> 00:43:29.780
The War and Peace Report.
I’m Amy Goodman.

939
00:43:29.780 --> 00:43:32.790
Was the fish you ate caught by a slave?

940
00:43:32.790 --> 00:43:34.340
We continue our conversation

941
00:43:34.340 --> 00:43:37.150
with AP reporters Robin McDowell

942
00:43:37.150 --> 00:43:40.900
and Martha Mendoza, co-authors
of the award-winning AP series,

943
00:43:40.900 --> 00:43:42.620
"Seafood from Slaves."

944
00:43:42.620 --> 00:43:44.050
I asked Martha Mendoza

945
00:43:44.050 --> 00:43:46.630
how she tracked
where this slave labor seafood

946
00:43:46.630 --> 00:43:49.440
ends up here in the United States
and what she found.

947
00:43:50.100 --> 00:43:54.740
MARTHA MENDOZA: So, a fish can change
ownership 30 times before—from the time

948
00:43:54.740 --> 00:43:56.780
it’s caught until the time
we’re eating it.

949
00:43:56.780 --> 00:44:00.310
And so, we knew it was going
to be a major challenge.

950
00:44:00.310 --> 00:44:03.950
But when Robin contacted us
from this island and said,

951
00:44:03.950 --> 00:44:05.470
"You would not believe

952
00:44:05.470 --> 00:44:09.350
what we’re seeing here,"
my priority was follow those fish.

953
00:44:09.350 --> 00:44:10.920
We need to just meticulously,

954
00:44:10.920 --> 00:44:13.510
with detailed accuracy,
figure out where they end up,

955
00:44:13.510 --> 00:44:16.100
so that there’s no more generalizations

956
00:44:16.100 --> 00:44:20.160
of consumers or sellers
in the United States saying,

957
00:44:20.160 --> 00:44:21.250
"Oh, it’s not our fish."

958
00:44:21.940 --> 00:44:23.640
The way we did it was,

959
00:44:23.640 --> 00:44:28.890
when that boatload of seafood
from Benjina arrived at port,

960
00:44:28.890 --> 00:44:31.200
staked out the trucks
that were unloading it

961
00:44:31.200 --> 00:44:33.030
and followed them to factories.

962
00:44:33.030 --> 00:44:35.840
Every shipment
from an international company

963
00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:38.420
to the United States
comes with a custom bill of lading.

964
00:44:38.420 --> 00:44:39.950
Those are now digitized,

965
00:44:39.950 --> 00:44:43.210
and so we were able to search
through those digitized records

966
00:44:43.210 --> 00:44:46.520
and find where those companies
were shipping their seafood to.

967
00:44:46.520 --> 00:44:48.820
That was just the beginning
of our hunt,

968
00:44:48.820 --> 00:44:51.760
because there’s the seafood distributors
in the United States,

969
00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:55.840
who will not tell you what brand
or label is going on their seafood.

970
00:44:55.840 --> 00:44:58.740
When we went back into this again
later in the year with shrimp,

971
00:44:58.740 --> 00:45:00.330
it was much easier, because the brands

972
00:45:00.330 --> 00:45:01.940
of all the major companies,

973
00:45:01.940 --> 00:45:05.700
including places like Whole Foods
and Wal-Mart, Red Lobster,

974
00:45:05.700 --> 00:45:07.940
were being put
on the shrimp in Thailand.

975
00:45:09.070 --> 00:45:11.750
And so, we just went
right off the brands.

976
00:45:11.750 --> 00:45:15.300
We ended up having reporters
in all 50 states go to supermarkets

977
00:45:15.300 --> 00:45:18.340
and identify—take photos
of and identify fish

978
00:45:18.340 --> 00:45:21.320
that came from
the supply chain of these.

979
00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:23.160
AMY GOODMAN: But how do you do that
from taking a picture

980
00:45:23.160 --> 00:45:24.620
of fish or shrimp in a restaurant?

981
00:45:24.620 --> 00:45:25.860
MARTHA MENDOZA: Sorry.
Let me be really clear.

982
00:45:25.860 --> 00:45:28.390
OK, so they follow these trucks
to these factories.

983
00:45:28.390 --> 00:45:30.890
We use the customs bills of lading,
that had been digitized,

984
00:45:30.890 --> 00:45:33.180
to show the distributors
here in the United States.

985
00:45:33.180 --> 00:45:35.880
Then we called and went
through business records

986
00:45:35.880 --> 00:45:37.880
and went through lawsuits

987
00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:40.710
and went through buyers and sellers

988
00:45:40.710 --> 00:45:44.060
and actually went
to several major seafood conferences

989
00:45:44.060 --> 00:45:46.220
to find out where the top distributors

990
00:45:46.220 --> 00:45:49.120
of seafood in the United States
are selling their seafood to.

991
00:45:49.120 --> 00:45:51.050
If you go in the supermarket,
you’re going to see your fish

992
00:45:51.050 --> 00:45:53.550
with a plastic wrap
on it in that fresh counter.

993
00:45:53.550 --> 00:45:55.770
And it’s not going to say
this is a product of Thailand

994
00:45:55.770 --> 00:45:58.480
that came through such-and-such company
in the United States.

995
00:45:58.480 --> 00:46:00.340
You don’t see that chain.

996
00:46:00.340 --> 00:46:03.680
But because these companies
in the United States—we, you know,

997
00:46:03.680 --> 00:46:06.690
asked them, talked to people
buying and selling from them,

998
00:46:06.690 --> 00:46:08.860
and found out where their fish went.

999
00:46:08.860 --> 00:46:11.300
AMY GOODMAN: So name for us
the restaurants,

1000
00:46:11.300 --> 00:46:13.390
name for us the grocery stores,

1001
00:46:13.390 --> 00:46:15.680
that carry slave-labored seafood.

1002
00:46:16.820 --> 00:46:19.440
MARTHA MENDOZA: It actually was getting
to the point where everywhere we looked,

1003
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:23.410
we could find it,
from the smaller, localized chains

1004
00:46:23.410 --> 00:46:26.850
like Schnucks or Piggly Wiggly

1005
00:46:26.850 --> 00:46:28.300
to the major sellers

1006
00:46:28.300 --> 00:46:31.120
like Albertsons, Safeway, Kroger,

1007
00:46:31.120 --> 00:46:33.380
the restaurant chains, most popular,

1008
00:46:33.380 --> 00:46:35.510
Red Lobster, Olive Garden.

1009
00:46:35.510 --> 00:46:37.770
And then there’s distributors
like Sysco,

1010
00:46:37.770 --> 00:46:41.800
so that’s a—the largest food distributor
in the United States. And they’re—

1011
00:46:41.800 --> 00:46:44.110
AMY GOODMAN: Not Costco, but Sysco.
MARTHA MENDOZA: Sysco,

1012
00:46:44.110 --> 00:46:47.000
which their—you’ll see
their trucks on the road.

1013
00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:50.190
And those—and they’re selling
to all the different supermarkets,

1014
00:46:50.190 --> 00:46:51.470
as well.

1015
00:46:51.470 --> 00:46:53.380
AMY GOODMAN: Wal-Mart?
MARTHA MENDOZA: Absolutely.

1016
00:46:53.380 --> 00:46:56.060
And Wal-Mart is the biggest seller
of shrimp in the United States.

1017
00:46:56.060 --> 00:47:00.090
And, absolutely, fish and shrimp
track directly to Wal-Mart.

1018
00:47:00.090 --> 00:47:02.140
And their response immediately was

1019
00:47:02.140 --> 00:47:05.720
that they deplore this
in their supply chain.

1020
00:47:05.720 --> 00:47:09.970
AMY GOODMAN: So how did
President Obama’s recent ban

1021
00:47:09.970 --> 00:47:13.680
on slave-produced goods come about?

1022
00:47:13.680 --> 00:47:17.470
And how does it affect
what you’ve discovered?

1023
00:47:17.470 --> 00:47:20.260
MARTHA MENDOZA: Sure. So,
soon after we published our first story,

1024
00:47:20.260 --> 00:47:22.020
and we’re showing, look,
here’s a guy in a cage,

1025
00:47:22.020 --> 00:47:23.660
and here’s Wal-Mart, it ends up there,

1026
00:47:23.660 --> 00:47:25.700
and we have—we’ve got the goods,

1027
00:47:25.700 --> 00:47:27.160
we’ve—you know,

1028
00:47:27.160 --> 00:47:29.030
we’ve walked you through it

1029
00:47:29.030 --> 00:47:31.170
as a reader—there was
a congressional hearing.

1030
00:47:31.170 --> 00:47:32.870
And at the congressional hearing,

1031
00:47:32.870 --> 00:47:35.250
they were discussing, you know,
why does this happen.

1032
00:47:35.250 --> 00:47:37.800
And a member of the State Department

1033
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:40.040
actually was put on the spot, as well.

1034
00:47:40.040 --> 00:47:41.290
And she said,

1035
00:47:42.710 --> 00:47:44.430
"We don’t allow this to happen.

1036
00:47:44.430 --> 00:47:46.580
There’s a law that says
that slave-produced items

1037
00:47:46.580 --> 00:47:48.050
are not allowed in the United States."

1038
00:47:48.050 --> 00:47:50.200
And so I asked, "Well,
when are you enforcing this law?

1039
00:47:51.040 --> 00:47:53.630
Can we see how it’s—you know,
how it’s working?"

1040
00:47:53.630 --> 00:47:55.280
And they said, "Actually,
there’s a loophole:

1041
00:47:55.280 --> 00:47:57.100
a term, 'consumptive demand.'"

1042
00:47:57.100 --> 00:47:59.130
If there’s a consumptive demand
for an item, then,

1043
00:47:59.130 --> 00:48:01.350
even if it’s slave-produced,
it can be allowed in.

1044
00:48:01.890 --> 00:48:04.320
After we published a story about this,

1045
00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:07.200
the entire Congress
agreed to change the loophole.

1046
00:48:07.200 --> 00:48:10.340
And about a month ago,
Obama signed into law

1047
00:48:11.790 --> 00:48:13.200
a measure

1048
00:48:13.200 --> 00:48:15.440
that included a provision
closing that loophole.

1049
00:48:16.430 --> 00:48:18.530
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to turn
to Gavin Gibbons,

1050
00:48:18.530 --> 00:48:21.460
the spokesperson
for the National Fisheries Institute,

1051
00:48:21.460 --> 00:48:24.020
responding
to the Associated Press’s findings

1052
00:48:24.020 --> 00:48:26.570
about slave labor
in the seafood industry.

1053
00:48:27.490 --> 00:48:31.210
GAVIN GIBBONS: It’s not only disturbing,
it’s disheartening,

1054
00:48:31.210 --> 00:48:36.430
because our companies
have zero tolerance for labor abuses.

1055
00:48:36.430 --> 00:48:39.030
There are things that people
talk about, like boycotts,

1056
00:48:39.030 --> 00:48:41.810
and they say, "Well, why don’t we just
not buy seafood from there?"

1057
00:48:41.810 --> 00:48:43.600
Well, if you don’t
buy seafood from there,

1058
00:48:43.600 --> 00:48:47.020
then you’re not only not
in the conversation anymore about labor,

1059
00:48:47.020 --> 00:48:50.380
you don’t have
an ability to fix it.

1060
00:48:50.380 --> 00:48:52.110
AMY GOODMAN: So, Robin McDowell,

1061
00:48:52.810 --> 00:48:55.980
there is the spokesperson
for the National Fisheries Institute

1062
00:48:55.980 --> 00:48:58.710
saying boycotts
would be counterproductive.

1063
00:48:59.510 --> 00:49:01.660
What effect—what’s
your response to that?

1064
00:49:01.660 --> 00:49:05.920
And what effect did your report
have on their industry?

1065
00:49:06.820 --> 00:49:08.660
ROBIN McDOWELL: I think
it’s really a difficult question.

1066
00:49:08.660 --> 00:49:10.590
I will say,

1067
00:49:10.590 --> 00:49:13.390
when you are doing
human rights reporting,

1068
00:49:14.070 --> 00:49:16.820
it seems like it almost doesn’t matter,

1069
00:49:16.820 --> 00:49:19.010
to a degree,
what governments are saying,

1070
00:49:19.010 --> 00:49:22.100
what labor rights groups are saying,

1071
00:49:22.100 --> 00:49:24.150
what human rights
organizations are saying.

1072
00:49:25.950 --> 00:49:27.880
It is when—I won’t say
it doesn’t matter,

1073
00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:31.290
but it is really when the businesses

1074
00:49:31.290 --> 00:49:35.240
that are buying and the consumers
start screaming

1075
00:49:35.240 --> 00:49:37.580
that things start to change.

1076
00:49:37.580 --> 00:49:40.100
So I really believe the voice
of the American consumer

1077
00:49:40.100 --> 00:49:43.350
is the biggest impetus to change
for these Thai seafood companies.

1078
00:49:43.350 --> 00:49:44.980
AMY GOODMAN: Let’s turn
to George Chamberlain.

1079
00:49:44.980 --> 00:49:46.760
He’s the president of an alliance

1080
00:49:46.760 --> 00:49:49.690
that represents the farmed shrimp
industry worldwide,

1081
00:49:49.690 --> 00:49:52.040
the Global Aquaculture Alliance.

1082
00:49:52.040 --> 00:49:56.490
Chamberlain told the AP the problem
is with third-party suppliers,

1083
00:49:56.490 --> 00:49:58.700
not processing plants.

1084
00:49:58.700 --> 00:50:01.510
GEORGE CHAMBERLAIN: Processing plants
are well controlled

1085
00:50:01.510 --> 00:50:03.090
and certified and monitored.

1086
00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:06.300
But what happens if they
contract to a third party

1087
00:50:06.300 --> 00:50:07.590
who doesn’t follow the rules?

1088
00:50:07.590 --> 00:50:09.510
AMY GOODMAN: Martha Mendoza, respond.

1089
00:50:09.510 --> 00:50:12.060
MARTHA MENDOZA: So,
after that story came out,

1090
00:50:12.060 --> 00:50:14.710
the buyers
at the Global Aquaculture Alliance

1091
00:50:14.710 --> 00:50:16.740
and shrimp buyers
in the United States said,

1092
00:50:16.740 --> 00:50:19.110
"We will not buy shrimp
from any company

1093
00:50:19.110 --> 00:50:21.670
that is using a third-party processor."

1094
00:50:21.670 --> 00:50:24.280
We do know that in Thailand
about 2,000 people

1095
00:50:24.280 --> 00:50:28.100
who were in those processing facilities
have now been employed.

1096
00:50:28.100 --> 00:50:31.150
They have jobs, money, some protection,

1097
00:50:31.150 --> 00:50:33.320
and their kids are no longer
being forced to work.

1098
00:50:34.040 --> 00:50:35.760
AMY GOODMAN: The Indonesian government
has called

1099
00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:38.420
for a temporary moratorium
on all foreign fishing.

1100
00:50:38.420 --> 00:50:41.590
This is Saut Hutagalung the director

1101
00:50:41.590 --> 00:50:44.700
of Indonesia’s Ministry
of Marine Affairs and Fisheries.

1102
00:50:44.700 --> 00:50:47.160
He is followed
by the Indonesian minister

1103
00:50:47.160 --> 00:50:48.880
of maritime and fisheries.

1104
00:50:49.380 --> 00:50:54.610
SAUT HUTAGALUNG: The new government
has launched a policy

1105
00:50:54.610 --> 00:50:58.540
to crack down illegal fishing practices,

1106
00:50:59.160 --> 00:51:02.050
because we see that this is
the bottom of the problem.

1107
00:51:02.050 --> 00:51:05.380
SUSI PUDJIASTUTI: Thinking of what
slavery is happening on those boats,

1108
00:51:06.210 --> 00:51:08.120
I lost my sleep.

1109
00:51:09.180 --> 00:51:12.180
AMY GOODMAN: Martha Mendoza
of AP, can you respond?

1110
00:51:12.180 --> 00:51:13.860
MARTHA MENDOZA: Well,
the Indonesian authorities

1111
00:51:13.860 --> 00:51:15.380
are really concerned about this.

1112
00:51:15.380 --> 00:51:17.020
They don’t want to see it happening.

1113
00:51:17.020 --> 00:51:19.010
They’ve brought all the boats into shore

1114
00:51:19.010 --> 00:51:22.700
and are trying to inspect them
and find out who’s working on them.

1115
00:51:22.700 --> 00:51:27.180
And there’s been, actually, eight people
now sent to jail over human trafficking

1116
00:51:27.180 --> 00:51:28.850
because of our reporting there.

1117
00:51:28.850 --> 00:51:31.440
AMY GOODMAN: I want to now
turn to Susan Coppedge,

1118
00:51:31.440 --> 00:51:33.490
the ambassador-at-large for the Office

1119
00:51:33.490 --> 00:51:35.650
to Monitor and Combat Trafficking

1120
00:51:35.650 --> 00:51:37.970
in Persons at the U.S. State Department.

1121
00:51:37.970 --> 00:51:41.370
This is Coppedge speaking
to the Associated Press.

1122
00:51:41.370 --> 00:51:43.690
SUSAN COPPEDGE: So, consumers
should inform themselves,

1123
00:51:43.690 --> 00:51:46.370
so they can speak
to the places they shop

1124
00:51:46.370 --> 00:51:48.860
and the things they buy,
so they can speak through their wallets

1125
00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:51.730
and tell companies
that we don’t want products

1126
00:51:51.730 --> 00:51:53.240
that are made with slavery.

1127
00:51:54.570 --> 00:51:55.870
AMY GOODMAN: Martha Mendoza?

1128
00:51:55.870 --> 00:51:57.220
MARTHA MENDOZA: In the European Union,

1129
00:51:57.220 --> 00:52:00.610
they’ve already put a—what’s called
a yellow card on all Thai seafood,

1130
00:52:00.610 --> 00:52:03.470
and they’re weighing whether or not
to put a red card—the soccer analogy

1131
00:52:03.470 --> 00:52:05.770
being they will ban Thai seafood

1132
00:52:05.770 --> 00:52:09.300
if the situation does not improve
in terms of human rights.

1133
00:52:09.300 --> 00:52:11.010
The United States’ way
of putting pressure

1134
00:52:11.010 --> 00:52:13.950
is a little bit more diplomatic
and political,

1135
00:52:13.950 --> 00:52:16.750
but the United States is also
putting pressure on Thailand

1136
00:52:16.750 --> 00:52:18.240
to clean up their human rights records.

1137
00:52:19.870 --> 00:52:22.110
AMY GOODMAN: Last year
in California, law firms

1138
00:52:22.110 --> 00:52:25.180
filed a class-action lawsuit
against Costco

1139
00:52:25.180 --> 00:52:27.390
and its Thai seafood supplier,

1140
00:52:27.390 --> 00:52:30.420
arguing the company
has knowingly sold shrimp

1141
00:52:30.420 --> 00:52:32.000
whose harvesting relies

1142
00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:34.820
on rampant human trafficking
and forced labor.

1143
00:52:34.820 --> 00:52:37.220
Men who have escaped from boats
in the supply chain

1144
00:52:37.220 --> 00:52:39.240
have testified
to beatings, torture,

1145
00:52:39.240 --> 00:52:40.670
execution-style killings

1146
00:52:40.670 --> 00:52:42.560
and grueling 20-hour shifts.

1147
00:52:42.560 --> 00:52:45.780
The suit seeks to block Costco
from selling these shrimp

1148
00:52:45.780 --> 00:52:49.340
unless they’re labeled
as the produce of slavery.

1149
00:52:49.340 --> 00:52:51.010
So how do they get labeled?

1150
00:52:51.010 --> 00:52:53.190
This is all Associated Press’s
reporting.

1151
00:52:53.190 --> 00:52:56.540
MARTHA MENDOZA: You can’t see
a product today

1152
00:52:56.540 --> 00:52:58.360
that says it’s a product of slavery.

1153
00:52:58.360 --> 00:53:00.830
There’s a lot of different avenues
to resolving this.

1154
00:53:00.830 --> 00:53:04.270
Yes, class-action lawyers are taking
the civil litigation route,

1155
00:53:04.270 --> 00:53:06.490
and that Costco lawsuit
is one of several

1156
00:53:06.490 --> 00:53:09.620
that have been filed
in the past year related to this.

1157
00:53:11.210 --> 00:53:14.270
I don’t know how productive that is
or how effective that is.

1158
00:53:14.270 --> 00:53:15.890
I know one lawsuit was dropped.

1159
00:53:15.890 --> 00:53:20.310
I should point out that Nestlé
initiated their own investigation

1160
00:53:20.310 --> 00:53:23.220
and did something very remarkable
about eight months later:

1161
00:53:23.220 --> 00:53:25.360
They revealed their findings
and said, "Indeed,

1162
00:53:25.360 --> 00:53:27.540
we do have labor trafficking

1163
00:53:27.540 --> 00:53:31.270
and slavery in our own supply chain,
and we need to do better."

1164
00:53:31.270 --> 00:53:34.530
AMY GOODMAN: And that was
in terms of with Nestlé?

1165
00:53:34.530 --> 00:53:36.860
MARTHA MENDOZA: Yes, this was
around seafood in Thailand.

1166
00:53:36.860 --> 00:53:39.800
So, as a—so they got—they brought in
outside auditors,

1167
00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:42.470
after our investigative report.

1168
00:53:42.470 --> 00:53:45.560
And those auditors indeed find problems.

1169
00:53:45.560 --> 00:53:48.560
And typically what a company
does is keep that in house.

1170
00:53:48.560 --> 00:53:51.450
And instead, what they did
was publish it and come up

1171
00:53:51.450 --> 00:53:53.360
with a working plan to do better.

1172
00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:55.170
AMY GOODMAN: So how do you know
if this is ending?

1173
00:53:56.170 --> 00:53:58.130
ROBIN McDOWELL: I don’t
think it’s ending.

1174
00:53:58.130 --> 00:54:00.110
I think it’s an ongoing problem.

1175
00:54:00.110 --> 00:54:03.670
We intended to put a spotlight on it
and to show what was going on in

1176
00:54:03.670 --> 00:54:06.560
as clear a way as possible,
because so many people

1177
00:54:06.560 --> 00:54:09.310
had been saying,
on the consumer side

1178
00:54:09.310 --> 00:54:12.010
or the business side,
"You can’t prove it.

1179
00:54:12.010 --> 00:54:14.030
We realize it might be happening,

1180
00:54:14.030 --> 00:54:18.040
but nobody has really
proven it conclusively."

1181
00:54:18.630 --> 00:54:20.320
That’s what we set out to do.

1182
00:54:20.320 --> 00:54:22.060
But it is still going on.

1183
00:54:22.060 --> 00:54:24.500
Some of the boats
that were on Benjina

1184
00:54:24.500 --> 00:54:27.190
fled and continue
to fish in waters

1185
00:54:27.190 --> 00:54:28.340
as far away as Africa.

1186
00:54:29.650 --> 00:54:31.170
Some recruiters
and brokers,

1187
00:54:31.170 --> 00:54:34.180
who are now short of men,
have started going around,

1188
00:54:34.180 --> 00:54:36.480
we understand,
and trying to find more men.

1189
00:54:37.150 --> 00:54:39.570
So, it’s an ongoing problem,

1190
00:54:39.570 --> 00:54:41.560
and that is what we were trying to show.

1191
00:54:41.560 --> 00:54:44.020
AMY GOODMAN: This issue
of third-party suppliers, Martha,

1192
00:54:44.020 --> 00:54:46.790
what do you say to companies
that say, "We can’t be responsible

1193
00:54:46.790 --> 00:54:50.470
for going right back to the beginning
of where a fish is caught.

1194
00:54:50.470 --> 00:54:53.640
If these men are slaves,
certainly we don’t condone that,

1195
00:54:53.640 --> 00:54:55.070
but how would we know?"

1196
00:54:55.070 --> 00:54:58.320
MARTHA MENDOZA: Well, we’re
a couple of moms,

1197
00:54:58.320 --> 00:55:00.670
we are news reporters,
and we found this.

1198
00:55:01.210 --> 00:55:02.420
I don’t buy it.

1199
00:55:02.420 --> 00:55:03.750
A major corporation

1200
00:55:03.750 --> 00:55:07.970
that really cares and is really
committed to keeping human trafficking

1201
00:55:07.970 --> 00:55:09.230
out of their supply chain

1202
00:55:09.230 --> 00:55:11.680
can get meticulous,
get on the ground,

1203
00:55:11.680 --> 00:55:14.380
talk to people, figure
out where their products come from.

1204
00:55:14.380 --> 00:55:16.450
And it may be a little bit
more expensive for them,

1205
00:55:16.450 --> 00:55:18.860
and their profit margin
may be a little smaller,

1206
00:55:18.860 --> 00:55:20.320
but it’s entirely doable

1207
00:55:20.320 --> 00:55:23.030
for them to follow their product

1208
00:55:23.030 --> 00:55:26.360
from the producer right
onto their store shelves.

1209
00:55:26.360 --> 00:55:28.300
AMY GOODMAN: So, now,

1210
00:55:28.300 --> 00:55:30.030
what you’ve accomplished

1211
00:55:30.030 --> 00:55:31.980
and what you hope to accomplish still?

1212
00:55:32.700 --> 00:55:35.910
MARTHA MENDOZA: Yeah,
we’re more frustrated than gratified.

1213
00:55:35.910 --> 00:55:39.120
This is a ongoing problem.

1214
00:55:39.120 --> 00:55:41.120
It stems from the fact

1215
00:55:41.120 --> 00:55:43.130
that there’s been
overfishing close to shore,

1216
00:55:43.130 --> 00:55:46.650
so fishing now takes place further
and further from shore.

1217
00:55:46.650 --> 00:55:49.430
As a result, it’s
a very unaccountable industry,

1218
00:55:49.430 --> 00:55:53.100
and we know there’s abuses
at sea probably all around the world.

1219
00:55:53.100 --> 00:55:56.740
And so, we want to see
industrywide awareness

1220
00:55:56.740 --> 00:55:58.460
and then change.

1221
00:55:58.460 --> 00:56:01.820
ROBIN McDOWELL: And it’s not just
the Thai fishing industry—Taiwanese,

1222
00:56:01.820 --> 00:56:04.390
Korean, Chinese.

1223
00:56:08.180 --> 00:56:11.650
We focused on one particular industry,

1224
00:56:11.650 --> 00:56:13.840
one company, and followed that chain.

1225
00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:17.180
But it was exposed to illustrate
a much bigger problem.

1226
00:56:18.340 --> 00:56:20.490
AMY GOODMAN: What do think now
when you, yourselves,

1227
00:56:20.490 --> 00:56:22.860
eat seafood or feed it to your children?

1228
00:56:26.060 --> 00:56:27.720
MARTHA MENDOZA: I don’t.

1229
00:56:27.720 --> 00:56:30.240
I don’t eat seafood,
and I don’t feed it to my children.

1230
00:56:31.420 --> 00:56:34.170
AMY GOODMAN: Robin?
ROBIN McDOWELL: I don’t really, either.

1231
00:56:34.170 --> 00:56:37.060
But, for me,
it’s a bigger problem.

1232
00:56:37.060 --> 00:56:39.070
I feel like, in this global industry,

1233
00:56:39.070 --> 00:56:41.780
slavery touches almost every product,

1234
00:56:41.780 --> 00:56:45.530
everything we wear, the things we eat.

1235
00:56:45.530 --> 00:56:49.380
It’s really—it’s really disheartening.

1236
00:56:49.380 --> 00:56:51.780
AMY GOODMAN: And when you say
that, can you elaborate?

1237
00:56:52.400 --> 00:56:57.440
Can you elaborate on what you learned
about what is produced by slave labor?

1238
00:56:58.210 --> 00:56:59.930
ROBIN McDOWELL: Well, it’s not
just what we learned.

1239
00:56:59.930 --> 00:57:03.010
What we learned just showed
how horrible it can be.

1240
00:57:03.010 --> 00:57:04.400
When you hear—you know,

1241
00:57:04.400 --> 00:57:06.430
it could be the tip
of your shoelace

1242
00:57:06.430 --> 00:57:10.020
is made by—made with tiny—you know,
children with tiny fingers,

1243
00:57:10.020 --> 00:57:12.750
or—but you hear about it in every
[inaudible].

1244
00:57:12.750 --> 00:57:15.580
I think the head of Tesco,
at one point, said,

1245
00:57:15.580 --> 00:57:17.690
after our investigation—it was not tied

1246
00:57:17.690 --> 00:57:21.340
to our investigation—every product
is touched by slavery.

1247
00:57:22.260 --> 00:57:23.800
AMY GOODMAN: Before we end, Martha,

1248
00:57:25.110 --> 00:57:28.460
who is the team
that made this investigation?

1249
00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:33.280
MARTHA MENDOZA: So we are a four-woman
reporting team of journalists:

1250
00:57:33.280 --> 00:57:35.670
Robin McDowell, myself,
Margie Mason,

1251
00:57:35.670 --> 00:57:36.870
who’s based in Jakarta,

1252
00:57:36.870 --> 00:57:39.880
and Esther Htusan, who based in Myanmar.

1253
00:57:39.880 --> 00:57:42.460
Our editor, Mary Rajkumar, also a woman.

1254
00:57:43.600 --> 00:57:45.510
AMY GOODMAN: What do you think
it is about women

1255
00:57:45.510 --> 00:57:47.150
and exposing slavery?

1256
00:57:47.710 --> 00:57:50.400
MARTHA MENDOZA: I think
that we were very persistent.

1257
00:57:50.400 --> 00:57:54.190
I think that we were very dogged

1258
00:57:54.190 --> 00:57:56.310
in this investigation.

1259
00:57:56.310 --> 00:57:59.430
But I also think we were not abrasive.

1260
00:57:59.430 --> 00:58:03.120
We were not—we were not confrontant.

1261
00:58:03.120 --> 00:58:04.400
We were pursuing.

1262
00:58:05.640 --> 00:58:07.640
AMY GOODMAN: Martha Mendoza
and Robin McDowell

1263
00:58:07.640 --> 00:58:10.940
of the Associated Press, co-authors
of the award-winning AP series,

1264
00:58:10.940 --> 00:58:12.580
"Seafood from Slaves."

1265
00:58:12.580 --> 00:58:14.810
We’ll link to their series
at democracynow.org.

1266
00:58:14.810 --> 00:58:17.570
They are up for a Pulitzer Prize today.

1267
00:58:17.570 --> 00:58:19.070
That does it for today’s show.

1268
00:58:19.070 --> 00:58:21.200
We’re on the road
on a 100-city tour.

1269
00:58:21.200 --> 00:58:22.470
I’ll be speaking
in Salt Lake City

1270
00:58:22.470 --> 00:58:25.820
at the Rose Wagner Theater
tonight, then on to Colorado.

1271
00:58:25.820 --> 00:58:28.330
I’ll be in Idaho Springs
and Denver on Tuesday,

1272
00:58:28.330 --> 00:58:29.820
on Thursday at the Boulder Theater.

1273
00:58:29.820 --> 00:58:32.810
On Friday, I’ll be speaking
at Colorado College

1274
00:58:32.810 --> 00:58:34.440
in Colorado Springs.

1275
00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:37.460
You can check our website
at democracynow.org

1276
00:58:37.460 --> 00:58:41.820
for all our future visits and speeches

1277
00:58:41.820 --> 00:58:43.740
and the pictures of our tour so far.

1278
00:58:43.740 --> 00:58:46.000
Democracy Now!
is hiring a broadcast engineer

1279
00:58:46.000 --> 00:58:47.550
and a director
of finance and operations.

1280
00:58:47.550 --> 00:58:49.660
Go to democracynow.org
for more information.

1281
00:58:49.660 --> 00:58:52.490
Special thanks to Amy Littlefield,
Laura Gottesdiener, Denis Moynihan.