WEBVTT

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From Pacifica,

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this is Democracy Now!

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We have said repeatedly
over the last two months

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that our source

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is not the Russian government,

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and it is not a state party.

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WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange
tells Fox News Russia

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was not the source
for the mass leak of emails

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from the Democratic
National Committee.

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The Senate holds a hearing today
on Russian cyber-attacks.

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This comes as President-elect Trump
has backed Assange

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and called media coverage
of the hacking, quote,

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"More dishonest
than anyone knows."

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We’ll speak with
Pulitzer Prize-winning

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journalist Glenn Greenwald.

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But first, fresh off his arrest
for a sit-in

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at the offices
of Senator Jeff Sessions,

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we’ll speak with NAACP President

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Cornell William Brooks,

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who has called on Sessions

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to withdraw from consideration
for attorney general

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because of his opposition
to the Voting Rights Act,

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support for anti-immigration measures

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and history of racist comments.

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We thoughtfully broke the law

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so that we might have someone

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who will enforce all the laws

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as our chief law enforcement
officer of the United States.

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And we’ll speak
with NAACP chief Brooks

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about the sentencing
of Dylann Roof,

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who said in court Wednesday,

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"I am not sorry.

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I have not shed a tear
for the innocent people I killed."

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All that and more, coming up.

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Welcome to Democracy Now!,

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democracynow.org,
The War and Peace Report.

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I’m Amy Goodman.

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Republicans in the newly
sworn-in

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115th Congress moved
swiftly on Wednesday

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to repeal
the Affordable Care Act,

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President Obama’s
signature healthcare law.

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By a vote of 51 to 48,

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the Senate approved
a procedural measure

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clearing a way for a budget resolution

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that could repeal
major sections of the law.

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The charge was led by Vice
President-elect Mike Pence,

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who admitted that Republicans
have not yet decided

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how to replace
the Affordable Care Act.

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Vice President-elect Mike Pence: 
"The architecture of the replacement

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of Obamacare will come together,

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as it should, through
the legislative process

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in the weeks and months ahead.

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But the American people
voted for change in November,

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and the president-elect and I,

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working with the leaders
of the House and Senate,

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are determined to keep our promise
to the American people.

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And that all begins
with repealing

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and replacing
the failed policy of Obamacare."

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President Obama made
a rare trip to Capitol Hill,

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where he told minority Democrats not

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to help Republicans pass replacement

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measures he called "Trumpcare."

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At the White House,
Press Secretary Josh Earnest

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said the Republican plan

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would have devastating consequences.

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Press Secretary Josh Earnest: 
"Twenty-two million people

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are going to lose their health insurance
if the Affordable Care Act is repealed.

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It’s going to rip
a hole in the deficit,

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in the federal budget,
and the deficit will go up,

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if the Affordable Care
Act is repealed.

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That’s not just my conclusion;

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you can ask the CBO about that."

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Senate Republicans are seeking
to end billions of dollars

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in federal subsidies to states
that have expanded Medicaid,

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as well as subsidies
for private health coverage

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through health
insurance exchanges.

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Some provisions—like a ban
on denying coverage to people

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with pre-existing conditions—would

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likely be unaffected
by a repeal.

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On the Senate floor,
Vermont independent

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Senator Bernie Sanders

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displayed a giant printout
of a Donald Trump tweet,

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calling on the president-elect

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to make good on a campaign promise

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not to cut Social Security
or healthcare entitlements.

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Trump’s tweet, from May of 2015, read,

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"I was the first &
only potential GOP candidate

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to state there will be no cuts

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to Social Security,
Medicare & Medicaid."

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This is Senator Sanders.

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Sen. Bernie Sanders: "If he was sincere,

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then I would hope
that tomorrow,

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or maybe today,
he could send out a tweet

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and tell his Republican colleagues

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to stop wasting their time

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and all of our time,

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and for Mr. Trump to tell
the American people

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that he will veto any proposal

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that cuts Medicare,

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that cuts Medicaid

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and that cuts Social Security."

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Donald Trump’s team is planning

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an overhaul of the CIA

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and the Office of the Director
of National Intelligence.

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That’s according to
The Wall Street Journal,

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which reported Wednesday the changes

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are aimed at limiting the power
of the spy agencies.

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The plan includes
cuts to CIA

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staffing at its Virginia headquarters,

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while moving more employees
to field operations.

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The move comes after Trump

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repeatedly mocked the CIA

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over its assessment
that Russian hackers

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infiltrated the Democratic
National Committee

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and leaked emails from Hillary Clinton’s

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campaign adviser, John Podesta,

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in a bid to help Trump
win the presidency.

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On Wednesday, Donald Trump

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cited an interview
with Julian Assange,

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conducted by
Sean Hannity of Fox News,

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in which Assange said
that Russia was not the source

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for the mass leak of emails.

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Julian Assange: "We have said
repeatedly over the last two months

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that our source

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is not the Russian government,

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and it is not a state party."

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Responding to that comment,
Trump wrote on Twitter,

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"Julian Assange said 'a 14 year

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old could have hacked Podesta'

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–why was DNC so careless?

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Also said Russians did
not give him the info!"

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In 2010, Trump had a different view
of Julian Assange,

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calling for him
to face the death penalty.

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Meanwhile, BuzzFeed News
is reporting that

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the FBI did not examine the servers

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of the Democratic National Committee

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before issuing
a report blaming

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the leak of John Podesta’s

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emails on Russian hackers.

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BuzzFeed reports that so far no
U.S. government entity

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has run an independent forensic

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analysis on the DNC’s
computer system.

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Donald Trump has named
Wall Street attorney Walter

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"Jay" Clayton to head
the Securities

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and Exchange Commission.

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As a partner at the law firm Sullivan

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& Cromwell, Clayton gave legal advice

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to investment banks
including Goldman Sachs,

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Barclays and Bear Stearns—whose collapse

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helped usher
in the financial crisis of 2008.

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In 2011, Clayton co-authored

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a report blasting
the Obama administration’s

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SEC over its enforcement
of the Foreign Corrupt Practices

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Act, which bars
corporate bribery.

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Democratic Congressmember
Maxine Waters,

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the ranking member of the House

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Financial Services Committee,

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said in a statement,

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"Jay Clayton is just
the latest addition

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to the growing pool
of Wall Street insiders

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that make up
the Trump administration.

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As head of the SEC,
Clayton will have the power

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to carry his pro-Wall
Street agenda

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to the agency that is entrusted
with regulating Wall Street."

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In Chicago, Donald Trump’s
incoming press

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secretary drew protests

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Wednesday over his appearance
at a panel discussion

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on the University
of Chicago campus.

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Sean Spicer was
preparing to join

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former Obama adviser
David Axelrod in a conversation

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at the university’s
Institute of Politics,

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when a protester stood up
and accused Spicer

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of "accommodating fascism."

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Moderator: "Sir, with all due respect,
there’s an opportunity for you—"

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Protester: "You will be
announcing the Muslim registry."

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Moderator: "—to pose questions later on.
I’m going to ask, sir—"

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Protester: "You will be
announcing the roundup of Islam—"

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Moderator: "—that you give
our guests an opportunity

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to engage in a conversation."

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Protester: "This is
not normal, people!"

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Spicer’s appearance
at the University of Chicago

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came despite
widespread protest on campus.

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Last August, the university’s
dean of students,

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Jay Ellison, warned undergraduates,

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"We do not support
so-called trigger warnings,

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we do not cancel
invited speakers

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because their topics
might prove controversial,

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and we do not
condone the creation

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of intellectual 'safe spaces'

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where individuals can
retreat from ideas

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and perspectives at odds
with their own."

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In Charleston,
South Carolina,

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convicted murderer Dylann
Roof offered no apology

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and no explanation
for his massacre

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at the Emanuel AME Church
in June of 2015,

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telling jurors he was
psychologically fit to stand trial.

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The comment came as Roof acted

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as his own attorney
in a brief opening statement

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during the sentencing
phase of his trial.

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Roof faces a possible death sentence

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after he was convicted
in December of murdering

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nine black worshipers,

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including Pastor
Clementa Pinckney.

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In their opening statement,

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prosecutors quoted excerpts

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of a racist manifesto
written by Roof

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while he was held
in a Charleston jail.

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Roof wrote, "I would like
to make it crystal

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clear I do not regret
what I did.

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... I am not sorry.

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I have not shed a tear
for the innocent people I killed."

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In Chicago, four people
were arrested Wednesday

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after a disturbing video

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posted to Facebook shows them
torturing a bound

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and gagged man
while shouting,

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"F— Donald Trump!"

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The video shows two men
and two women—all

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of them African-American—cutting
the man with a knife,

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burning him with cigarettes

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and threatening him
with murder.

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The victim was identified

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as an 18-year-old
white man

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with mental health challenges.

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The attackers
were also teens.

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The video spawned a backlash
on social media,

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with many white
supremacist groups blaming

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the Black Lives Matter
movement for the assault.

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The hashtag "#BLMKidnapping"

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began trending on Twitter
by Wednesday night.

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In Rolesville, North Carolina,

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a police officer has been placed
on administrative

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leave after a viral video showed him

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picking up a high school student

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and slamming her
into the floor.

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Fifteen-year-old Jasmine Darwin,
who is African-American,

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said she was trying
to break up a fight

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between her sister
and another student

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when the officer grabbed her,

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lifted her high into the air

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and slammed her
on her side into concrete.

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Darwin’s mother said
the incident

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left her daughter
with a concussion.

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The video prompted
widespread calls on social media

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for the officer,
Ruben De Los Santos, to be fired.

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In Iraq, the United Nations

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is warning that over 13,000 civilians

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have fled Mosul over
the last five days,

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after a U.S.-led coalition

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ramped up its campaign

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to retake the city from ISIS.

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The commander of the assault,

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U.S. Lieutenant General
Stephen Townsend,

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said he believes his forces
might kill or capture ISIS leaders,

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but he’s unsure whether that
includes the group’s leader,

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Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

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Lt. Gen. Stephen Townsend: "I am sure
there are some senior leaders

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in Mosul still.

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We would have leaders here

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00:10:34.470 --> 00:10:37.040
controlling this very
important battle for them.

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00:10:37.040 --> 00:10:38.800
They do, too.

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00:10:38.800 --> 00:10:40.480
As far as Baghadadi is,

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00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:42.570
I have no idea
where Baghdadi is.

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00:10:42.570 --> 00:10:44.390
If you get a hint
on where Baghdadi is,

264
00:10:44.390 --> 00:10:46.020
please let me know,
so I can kill him."

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00:10:46.020 --> 00:10:47.650
A military spokesperson said

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00:10:47.650 --> 00:10:49.470
Wednesday the number of U.S. troops

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00:10:49.470 --> 00:10:52.310
taking part in fighting
around Mosul had doubled

268
00:10:52.310 --> 00:10:54.340
in recent weeks to 450.

269
00:10:54.340 --> 00:10:57.710
The U.S. currently has more
than 5,000 troops in Iraq.

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00:10:58.450 --> 00:11:01.440
Three Republican senators
have introduced a bill

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00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:02.940
that would move the U.S. Embassy

272
00:11:02.940 --> 00:11:04.160
in Israel from Tel Aviv

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00:11:04.160 --> 00:11:06.570
to Jerusalem—an act
that Palestinians say

274
00:11:06.570 --> 00:11:10.090
would further doom any chance
of a negotiated peace.

275
00:11:10.090 --> 00:11:12.890
The bill, introduced by Ted Cruz,

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00:11:12.890 --> 00:11:14.590
Dean Heller and Marco Rubio,

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00:11:14.590 --> 00:11:17.810
would also recognize Jerusalem
as Israel’s capital city.

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00:11:17.810 --> 00:11:20.570
Past presidents have resisted
congressional demands

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00:11:20.570 --> 00:11:22.210
to move the embassy
to Jerusalem,

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00:11:22.210 --> 00:11:24.550
the final status of which
is under negotiation

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00:11:24.550 --> 00:11:27.320
in talks between Israelis
and the Palestinians.

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00:11:27.320 --> 00:11:30.670
But Donald Trump has said
repeatedly he supports the move.

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00:11:31.400 --> 00:11:34.610
In Egypt, a leader of the 2011
uprising that toppled

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00:11:34.610 --> 00:11:36.800
U.S.-backed dictator Hosni Mubarak

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00:11:36.800 --> 00:11:38.260
has been freed
from prison,

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00:11:38.260 --> 00:11:39.880
after serving a three-year sentence

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00:11:39.880 --> 00:11:41.470
for unauthorized protest.

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00:11:41.470 --> 00:11:45.010
Ahmed Maher is a founder
of the April 6 Youth Movement,

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00:11:45.010 --> 00:11:47.280
which played a key role
in the ouster of Mubarak

290
00:11:47.280 --> 00:11:49.740
during the 2011 uprising.

291
00:11:49.740 --> 00:11:52.930
Supporters of Leonard Peltier
got a major boost this week

292
00:11:52.930 --> 00:11:54.660
in their campaign
to win clemency

293
00:11:54.660 --> 00:11:57.650
for the 71-year-old Native
American activist.

294
00:11:57.650 --> 00:11:59.620
U.S. Attorney James Reynolds,

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00:11:59.620 --> 00:12:01.690
whose office
prosecuted Peltier,

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00:12:01.690 --> 00:12:04.610
added his voice to those
calling on President Obama

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00:12:04.610 --> 00:12:06.270
for a compassionate release.

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00:12:06.270 --> 00:12:09.510
Speaking to The Guardian, Reynolds said,

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00:12:09.510 --> 00:12:11.850
"There seems to be
no point in taxpayers

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00:12:11.850 --> 00:12:13.240
paying his room and board.

301
00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:15.620
It’s time to call it quits."

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00:12:15.620 --> 00:12:18.170
Peltier is a former member
of the American Indian Movement

303
00:12:18.170 --> 00:12:19.560
who was convicted of killing two

304
00:12:19.560 --> 00:12:22.140
FBI agents during a shootout
on South Dakota’s

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00:12:22.140 --> 00:12:25.680
Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in 1975.

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00:12:25.680 --> 00:12:28.980
He has long maintained
his innocence.

307
00:12:28.980 --> 00:12:31.600
In France, a trial is underway
for a French farmer

308
00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:33.270
who faces up to five years in prison

309
00:12:33.270 --> 00:12:35.360
for helping migrants cross
the border from Italy.

310
00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:38.340
Cédric Herrou also faces
a 30,000-euro fine

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00:12:38.340 --> 00:12:41.510
if he’s found guilty
of aiding illegal arrivals.

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00:12:41.510 --> 00:12:43.120
About 300 demonstrators

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00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:44.830
rallied outside
a courthouse in Nice

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00:12:44.830 --> 00:12:46.880
Wednesday as the trial got underway.

315
00:12:46.880 --> 00:12:48.820
Herrou says he led
a team of volunteers

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00:12:48.820 --> 00:12:50.910
who provided food
and shelter to the migrants,

317
00:12:50.910 --> 00:12:53.010
and accepted no money
in return.

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00:12:54.580 --> 00:12:57.490
Cédric Herrou: "There are
rights to be respected.

319
00:12:57.490 --> 00:12:59.140
They have to respect
the law like I do.

320
00:12:59.140 --> 00:13:00.750
I broke the law
because these people

321
00:13:00.750 --> 00:13:02.840
are pushing me
towards illegality in order

322
00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:04.680
to protect the rights of these children

323
00:13:04.680 --> 00:13:07.240
and these families that
I’ve taken across the border.

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00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:08.340
I had to break the law.

325
00:13:08.340 --> 00:13:10.780
And if I have to continue,
I will continue."

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00:13:10.780 --> 00:13:12.400
Last month,
Herrou was elected

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00:13:12.400 --> 00:13:14.760
"Person of the Year"
by Nice’s main newspaper.

328
00:13:14.760 --> 00:13:17.630
He’s the latest to face charges
for assisting migrants.

329
00:13:17.630 --> 00:13:20.270
Later this week, a court will
decide the fate of a man

330
00:13:20.270 --> 00:13:22.480
who faces a six-month
suspended sentence

331
00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:24.910
for giving a ride
to three Eritrean women

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00:13:24.910 --> 00:13:27.430
who crossed the border from Italy.

333
00:13:27.430 --> 00:13:28.730
And those are some
of the headlines

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00:13:28.730 --> 00:13:31.440
this is Democracy Now,
Democracynow.org,

335
00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:32.740
the War and Peace Report.

336
00:13:32.740 --> 00:13:34.740
I’m Amy Goodman.

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00:13:39.680 --> 00:13:42.140
NERMEEN SHAIKH: We begin today’s show
with the growing resistance

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00:13:42.140 --> 00:13:45.020
to many of President-elect
Trump’s Cabinet picks

339
00:13:45.020 --> 00:13:48.360
who face Senate confirmation
hearings in the coming weeks.

340
00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:52.660
On Tuesday, NAACP President
Cornell William Brooks

341
00:13:52.660 --> 00:13:54.910
and five other civil rights leaders

342
00:13:54.910 --> 00:13:57.310
were arrested during
a sit-in at the office

343
00:13:57.310 --> 00:13:59.580
of Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions,

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00:13:59.580 --> 00:14:02.300
demanding he withdraw
his name for consideration

345
00:14:02.300 --> 00:14:03.800
for attorney general.

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00:14:03.800 --> 00:14:05.920
Afterwards,
Brooks addressed supporters

347
00:14:05.920 --> 00:14:08.770
outside a police station
in Mobile, Alabama.

348
00:14:11.330 --> 00:14:13.000
CORNELL WILLIAM BROOKS: 
What we’ve done—namely,

349
00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:15.470
engaging in civil disobedience

350
00:14:15.470 --> 00:14:17.870
in opposition
to Senator Sessions

351
00:14:17.870 --> 00:14:20.110
becoming attorney general
of the United States.

352
00:14:20.110 --> 00:14:24.360
So, it’s quite an experience,

353
00:14:24.360 --> 00:14:28.650
but we thoughtfully broke the law

354
00:14:28.650 --> 00:14:30.920
so that we might have someone

355
00:14:30.920 --> 00:14:33.170
who will enforce all the laws

356
00:14:33.170 --> 00:14:34.970
as our chief law enforcement officer

357
00:14:34.970 --> 00:14:36.740
of the United States.

358
00:14:36.740 --> 00:14:39.180
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Trump’s pick has
drawn widespread outrage

359
00:14:39.180 --> 00:14:40.590
because of Sessions’ opposition

360
00:14:40.590 --> 00:14:42.050
to the Voting Rights Act,

361
00:14:42.050 --> 00:14:45.110
support for anti-immigration
legislation and history

362
00:14:45.110 --> 00:14:46.900
of making racist comments,

363
00:14:46.900 --> 00:14:48.650
which included reportedly saying

364
00:14:48.650 --> 00:14:50.890
he thought the Ku
Klux Klan was, quote,

365
00:14:50.890 --> 00:14:54.190
"OK until I found out
they smoked pot," end-quote.

366
00:14:54.190 --> 00:14:57.300
He has also called
the American Civil Liberties Union

367
00:14:57.300 --> 00:14:59.620
and the NAACP

368
00:14:59.620 --> 00:15:02.960
"un-American" and "Communist-inspired."

369
00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:06.210
In 1986, Sessions was
denied confirmation

370
00:15:06.210 --> 00:15:09.250
for a federal judgeship
by a Republican-controlled

371
00:15:09.250 --> 00:15:11.790
Senate committee
over his racist comments.

372
00:15:11.790 --> 00:15:13.340
AMY GOODMAN: This week’s sit-in
comes as more than

373
00:15:13.340 --> 00:15:15.490
a thousand law school professors

374
00:15:15.490 --> 00:15:18.160
sent a letter to Congress
urging lawmakers

375
00:15:18.160 --> 00:15:21.230
to reject Sessions’ confirmation,
writing, quote,

376
00:15:21.230 --> 00:15:23.620
"Nothing in Senator
Sessions’ public life

377
00:15:23.620 --> 00:15:26.590
since 1986 has convinced us

378
00:15:26.590 --> 00:15:28.480
that he is a different man

379
00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:30.470
than the 39-year-old attorney

380
00:15:30.470 --> 00:15:33.130
who was deemed too
racially insensitive

381
00:15:33.130 --> 00:15:36.680
to be a federal district
court judge," unquote.

382
00:15:36.680 --> 00:15:38.590
Sessions’ confirmation
hearing is scheduled

383
00:15:38.590 --> 00:15:39.890
for January 10th and 11th.

384
00:15:39.890 --> 00:15:41.860
For more, we go to Washington, D.C.,

385
00:15:41.860 --> 00:15:43.300
where, fresh
from his arrest,

386
00:15:43.300 --> 00:15:45.220
we’re joined by
Cornell William Brooks,

387
00:15:45.220 --> 00:15:48.230
president and CEO of the NAACP,

388
00:15:48.230 --> 00:15:50.330
also longtime human
rights advocate,

389
00:15:50.330 --> 00:15:52.180
civil rights lawyer and minister.

390
00:15:52.180 --> 00:15:53.930
Welcome back to Democracy Now!

391
00:15:53.930 --> 00:15:55.050
CORNELL WILLIAM BROOKS: 
It’s good to be back.

392
00:15:55.050 --> 00:15:58.340
AMY GOODMAN: Why don’t—before we go
to talk about another story,

393
00:15:58.340 --> 00:16:00.050
which is what’s happening

394
00:16:00.050 --> 00:16:04.200
in the sentencing
of Dylann Roof,

395
00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:08.570
let’s talk about your position
on Bill Sessions,

396
00:16:08.570 --> 00:16:11.550
on William Sessions—on Jeff Sessions,

397
00:16:11.550 --> 00:16:13.770
sorry, the senator of Alabama,

398
00:16:13.770 --> 00:16:18.160
who has been chosen
by President-elect Trump

399
00:16:18.160 --> 00:16:19.680
to be the next attorney general,

400
00:16:19.680 --> 00:16:21.540
though he does have to go
through a confirmation.

401
00:16:21.540 --> 00:16:23.660
What are your major objections?

402
00:16:23.660 --> 00:16:25.240
CORNELL WILLIAM BROOKS: 
Our objections are,

403
00:16:25.780 --> 00:16:27.270
fundamentally,

404
00:16:27.270 --> 00:16:30.690
Senator Sessions
represents a kind of dim

405
00:16:30.690 --> 00:16:32.890
and dystopian view of American

406
00:16:32.890 --> 00:16:34.920
civil liberties
and civil rights.

407
00:16:34.920 --> 00:16:37.040
And so our objections
are at least threefold,

408
00:16:37.040 --> 00:16:40.470
first of which is that
he has demonstrated

409
00:16:41.190 --> 00:16:44.670
an unwillingness to acknowledge
the reality of voter suppression

410
00:16:44.670 --> 00:16:47.350
that we have seen from one end
of the country to the other,

411
00:16:47.350 --> 00:16:50.510
as attested to in
the Fourth Circuit decision

412
00:16:50.510 --> 00:16:52.900
that found voter suppression
in North Carolina,

413
00:16:52.900 --> 00:16:54.270
the Fifth Circuit decision

414
00:16:54.270 --> 00:16:56.740
which found voter suppression in Texas.

415
00:16:56.740 --> 00:16:59.020
He has not acknowledged
the reality of that,

416
00:16:59.020 --> 00:17:00.960
and certainly not the reality
of voter suppression

417
00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:02.600
in his own state.

418
00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:05.500
Instead, he has mouthed a faith

419
00:17:05.500 --> 00:17:07.510
in voter ID laws,

420
00:17:07.510 --> 00:17:09.590
premised on voter fraud.

421
00:17:09.590 --> 00:17:12.170
And so, not only
has he not stood

422
00:17:12.170 --> 00:17:14.360
against voter suppression
in his own state,

423
00:17:14.360 --> 00:17:16.380
not acknowledged the reality
of voter suppression

424
00:17:16.380 --> 00:17:18.640
as recognized by federal courts,

425
00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:22.450
the one instance where
he has appeared in court

426
00:17:22.450 --> 00:17:23.900
in terms of voting rights,

427
00:17:23.900 --> 00:17:27.290
it was to prosecute three
civil rights activists,

428
00:17:27.290 --> 00:17:29.370
which it took a jury less

429
00:17:29.370 --> 00:17:32.570
than three hours
to find innocent.

430
00:17:32.570 --> 00:17:34.490
And a Congress,
in which he served,

431
00:17:34.490 --> 00:17:36.920
later provided them
or honored them

432
00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:38.190
with Congressional Gold Medals

433
00:17:38.190 --> 00:17:39.730
for their civil
rights activism.

434
00:17:39.730 --> 00:17:43.810
And one of those activists
actually marched beside Dr. King.

435
00:17:43.810 --> 00:17:46.130
And so, in terms of voting rights,

436
00:17:46.130 --> 00:17:48.030
we take strong exception,

437
00:17:48.030 --> 00:17:50.620
and we oppose him
in terms of that.

438
00:17:50.620 --> 00:17:52.040
In terms of immigration rights,

439
00:17:52.040 --> 00:17:56.080
he is one—among one of the most
conservative, ultraconservative,

440
00:17:56.080 --> 00:17:58.670
extremist senators

441
00:17:58.670 --> 00:18:00.410
in terms of his opposition

442
00:18:00.410 --> 00:18:03.100
to comprehensive
immigration reform.

443
00:18:03.100 --> 00:18:07.130
In addition to that,
he has voiced an openness

444
00:18:07.130 --> 00:18:09.400
to a immigration ban

445
00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:12.000
on a global religion,
namely Islam,

446
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:13.810
which cannot be squared
in any way, shape,

447
00:18:13.810 --> 00:18:16.970
fashion or form
with the U.S. Constitution.

448
00:18:16.970 --> 00:18:18.400
Number three,

449
00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:21.560
his views on criminal
justice reform

450
00:18:21.560 --> 00:18:24.710
stand in stark contrast
to both red state

451
00:18:24.710 --> 00:18:26.130
and blue state governors.

452
00:18:26.130 --> 00:18:28.520
In other words,
he stands for law

453
00:18:28.520 --> 00:18:31.460
and order in Nixonian
and draconian terms,

454
00:18:31.460 --> 00:18:32.900
at a moment
in which we have over

455
00:18:32.900 --> 00:18:34.860
2 million Americans
behind bars,

456
00:18:34.860 --> 00:18:37.120
65 million Americans
with criminal records,

457
00:18:37.120 --> 00:18:39.670
1 million fathers behind bars,

458
00:18:39.670 --> 00:18:42.860
and we have folks on both
the left and the right,

459
00:18:42.860 --> 00:18:45.670
Republicans and Democrats
on both sides of the aisle,

460
00:18:45.670 --> 00:18:49.650
looking to dismantle
this prison-industrial complex

461
00:18:49.650 --> 00:18:53.040
and bring this era
of mass incarceration to an end.

462
00:18:53.040 --> 00:18:55.710
He, on the other hand,
wants to overpopulate

463
00:18:55.710 --> 00:18:58.350
or continue to overpopulate
the prisons and jails,

464
00:18:58.350 --> 00:19:01.680
while depopulating our families
and communities.

465
00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:03.430
So, for these reasons,

466
00:19:03.430 --> 00:19:06.610
coupled with his record
as a prosecutor,

467
00:19:06.610 --> 00:19:08.480
his record as attorney general,

468
00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:10.600
his record as a United States senator,

469
00:19:11.690 --> 00:19:14.790
backed—I should say,
which attest to statements

470
00:19:14.790 --> 00:19:18.520
that he made
in the 1980s

471
00:19:18.520 --> 00:19:21.450
demonstrating incredible
racial insensitivity.

472
00:19:21.450 --> 00:19:23.170
And so, the point being here is,

473
00:19:23.170 --> 00:19:25.260
the remarks that we found
racially offensive

474
00:19:25.260 --> 00:19:26.660
in the '90s—I should say,

475
00:19:26.660 --> 00:19:29.940
in the 1980s,
have been demonstrated,

476
00:19:29.940 --> 00:19:32.600
attested to,
verified by the record

477
00:19:32.600 --> 00:19:35.150
which extends from
that point until now.

478
00:19:35.150 --> 00:19:36.820
So we stand in strong opposition.

479
00:19:36.820 --> 00:19:38.640
And we stand in opposition

480
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:40.730
with over a thousand law professors,

481
00:19:40.730 --> 00:19:42.770
with Governor Deval Patrick,

482
00:19:42.770 --> 00:19:45.990
with organizations not only
on the progressive left,

483
00:19:45.990 --> 00:19:50.040
but I might also note there
are any number of conservatives

484
00:19:50.040 --> 00:19:52.710
who take strong exception to the fact

485
00:19:52.710 --> 00:19:54.580
that Senator Sessions

486
00:19:54.580 --> 00:19:57.960
is—stands against whistleblowers.

487
00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:00.220
He stands against
civil liberties.

488
00:20:00.220 --> 00:20:02.010
And so, folks on the left
and the right,

489
00:20:02.010 --> 00:20:04.990
conservatives and progressives,

490
00:20:04.990 --> 00:20:07.040
know that Jeff Sessions

491
00:20:07.040 --> 00:20:09.790
represents a very dangerous
turn for this country.

492
00:20:09.790 --> 00:20:11.630
Because we need
to be clear, Amy.

493
00:20:11.630 --> 00:20:13.340
We need to be very clear.

494
00:20:13.340 --> 00:20:16.910
We, as a country,
face a stark choice,

495
00:20:16.910 --> 00:20:19.230
not between liberalism
and conservatism,

496
00:20:19.230 --> 00:20:22.340
but rather between democracy
and authoritarianism.

497
00:20:22.340 --> 00:20:24.750
And an Attorney
General Jeff Sessions,

498
00:20:24.750 --> 00:20:26.470
under a President Donald J.

499
00:20:26.470 --> 00:20:30.290
Trump, would take us
in the wrong direction—that

500
00:20:30.290 --> 00:20:33.420
is to say, backward in a headlong

501
00:20:33.420 --> 00:20:35.270
and a full-speed fashion.

502
00:20:35.270 --> 00:20:36.600
And we simply can't do that.

503
00:20:36.600 --> 00:20:39.320
So the NAACP is unapologetically

504
00:20:39.320 --> 00:20:41.020
opposed to Senator Sessions.

505
00:20:41.020 --> 00:20:43.960
The board of directors of the NAACP

506
00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:47.200
voted to oppose this nomination.

507
00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:50.810
And we’re doing so not only
as a matter of policy,

508
00:20:50.810 --> 00:20:54.210
but we’re doing so bodily,
spiritually, morally,

509
00:20:54.210 --> 00:20:57.690
by encouraging
civil disobedience—that

510
00:20:57.690 --> 00:21:01.120
is to say, standing in
the tradition of Mohandas K.

511
00:21:01.120 --> 00:21:03.730
Gandhi, Martin Luther King,
Rosa Parks,

512
00:21:03.730 --> 00:21:06.440
standing in that tradition
by sitting down.

513
00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:11.470
And so, we understand
that the odds may be difficult,

514
00:21:11.470 --> 00:21:13.120
but we, as the NAACP,

515
00:21:13.120 --> 00:21:16.010
don’t gauge
our principled opposition

516
00:21:16.010 --> 00:21:19.710
to a nominee based upon odds
and probabilities,

517
00:21:19.710 --> 00:21:22.000
but rather the rightness
of the cause.

518
00:21:22.610 --> 00:21:24.070
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, on the first point

519
00:21:24.070 --> 00:21:25.570
that you mentioned,

520
00:21:25.570 --> 00:21:29.550
your concern about Jeff
Sessions as attorney general—

521
00:21:29.550 --> 00:21:30.940
CORNELL WILLIAM BROOKS: Yes.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: —voter suppression

522
00:21:30.940 --> 00:21:33.580
and ID laws,
voter ID laws,

523
00:21:33.580 --> 00:21:36.710
a recent poll,
jointly conducted by

524
00:21:36.710 --> 00:21:38.560
The Economist and YouGov,

525
00:21:38.560 --> 00:21:41.510
revealed that 62 percent

526
00:21:41.510 --> 00:21:45.440
of Trump supporters believe
that, quote,

527
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:47.780
"millions of illegal votes

528
00:21:47.780 --> 00:21:50.420
were cast in this election."

529
00:21:50.420 --> 00:21:52.380
So, could you respond to that

530
00:21:52.380 --> 00:21:54.110
and what that may have to do

531
00:21:54.110 --> 00:21:57.170
with Trump’s selection of Sessions

532
00:21:57.170 --> 00:21:59.160
as—or nomination
of Sessions

533
00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:01.180
as attorney general?

534
00:22:01.180 --> 00:22:02.530
CORNELL WILLIAM BROOKS: Absolutely.

535
00:22:02.530 --> 00:22:05.610
While we may have any number
of our fellow citizens

536
00:22:05.610 --> 00:22:10.400
who believe in the myth of voter fraud,
here’s the reality.

537
00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:12.990
There are studies
that attest to the fact

538
00:22:13.490 --> 00:22:15.260
that out of hundreds and hundreds

539
00:22:15.260 --> 00:22:18.370
and hundreds of millions
of ballots cast,

540
00:22:18.370 --> 00:22:22.670
we have a literal handful
of fraudulent ballots.

541
00:22:22.670 --> 00:22:23.920
Literal handful.

542
00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:26.810
And so, statistically,
empirically,

543
00:22:26.810 --> 00:22:29.260
as a matter of
probability speaking,

544
00:22:29.260 --> 00:22:31.500
you’re more likely
to meet the tooth fairy

545
00:22:31.500 --> 00:22:34.600
standing next to Santa Claus
at the ballot box

546
00:22:34.600 --> 00:22:37.620
than encounter an actual
instance of voter fraud.

547
00:22:37.620 --> 00:22:39.700
What you’re most
likely to encounter

548
00:22:39.700 --> 00:22:42.740
is not voter fraud
on the part of voters

549
00:22:42.740 --> 00:22:45.710
pretending to be something
that they’re not,

550
00:22:45.710 --> 00:22:49.160
but rather politicians
engaging in fraudulent behavior

551
00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:52.320
with respect to suppressing the vote.

552
00:22:52.320 --> 00:22:53.520
That’s a reality.

553
00:22:53.520 --> 00:22:54.850
And it’s a reality attested

554
00:22:54.850 --> 00:22:58.010
to by federal courts
around the country.

555
00:22:58.010 --> 00:23:00.760
The NAACP, in the span of less

556
00:23:00.760 --> 00:23:02.050
than a year—that is to say,

557
00:23:02.050 --> 00:23:04.670
in 10 months
—we had 10 victories

558
00:23:04.670 --> 00:23:06.390
against voter suppression.

559
00:23:06.390 --> 00:23:08.650
We have court cases
in North Carolina,

560
00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:11.980
led in a marvelous way

561
00:23:11.980 --> 00:23:13.540
by Dr. Barber

562
00:23:13.540 --> 00:23:14.940
and the North Carolina
State Conference

563
00:23:14.940 --> 00:23:17.230
of the NAACP,
and in Texas,

564
00:23:17.230 --> 00:23:19.990
led by a brilliant lawyer,
Gary Bledsoe,

565
00:23:19.990 --> 00:23:24.100
and the Texas State Conference
of the NAACP—two court victories

566
00:23:24.100 --> 00:23:27.090
attesting to the reality
of voter suppression.

567
00:23:27.090 --> 00:23:28.760
Think about it this way.

568
00:23:28.760 --> 00:23:31.280
When Texas,
a court found that

569
00:23:31.280 --> 00:23:36.220
630,000-plus ballots, votes,

570
00:23:36.220 --> 00:23:37.900
voters were—I should say,

571
00:23:37.900 --> 00:23:39.470
votes were imperiled

572
00:23:39.470 --> 00:23:41.950
as a consequence
of voter suppression,

573
00:23:41.950 --> 00:23:43.650
not voter fraud.

574
00:23:43.650 --> 00:23:45.400
The same is true
in North Carolina

575
00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:47.810
in terms of 5 percent
of the electorate.

576
00:23:47.810 --> 00:23:49.420
And in the home state

577
00:23:49.420 --> 00:23:52.830
of Senator Jefferson
Beauregard Sessions—namely,

578
00:23:52.830 --> 00:23:56.040
Alabama—a half-million votes

579
00:23:56.040 --> 00:24:00.370
were imperiled as a consequence
of a constitutionally wrongheaded,

580
00:24:00.370 --> 00:24:03.770
morally wronghearted voter ID law.

581
00:24:03.770 --> 00:24:07.140
So, to our fellow citizens
who believe in voter fraud,

582
00:24:07.140 --> 00:24:09.570
it quite simply is not true,

583
00:24:09.570 --> 00:24:11.940
except when it comes
to your politicians

584
00:24:11.940 --> 00:24:13.500
who are engaging in voter

585
00:24:13.500 --> 00:24:15.820
suppressive and discriminatory
behavior and activity.

586
00:24:16.390 --> 00:24:18.750
AMY GOODMAN: In 1986, President Reagan

587
00:24:18.750 --> 00:24:21.260
nominated Jeff Sessions
for a federal judgeship,

588
00:24:21.260 --> 00:24:22.920
but he was denied confirmation

589
00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:25.600
because of his history of racist
comments even at that time,

590
00:24:25.600 --> 00:24:27.730
including reportedly saying

591
00:24:27.730 --> 00:24:30.510
that he thought
Ku Klux Klan members

592
00:24:30.510 --> 00:24:32.990
were OK until he found out
they smoked pot.

593
00:24:32.990 --> 00:24:35.470
This is the late Senator
Ted Kennedy speaking

594
00:24:35.470 --> 00:24:37.950
at Sessions’
1986 confirmation hearing.

595
00:24:37.950 --> 00:24:39.450
This is from NBC News.

596
00:24:40.250 --> 00:24:43.220
SEN. TED KENNEDY: Mr. Sessions is
a throwback to a shameful era,

597
00:24:43.220 --> 00:24:45.510
which I know both black
and white Americans

598
00:24:45.510 --> 00:24:46.900
thought was in our past.

599
00:24:46.900 --> 00:24:48.760
It’s inconceivable to me

600
00:24:48.760 --> 00:24:50.140
that a person of this attitude

601
00:24:50.140 --> 00:24:52.570
is qualified
to be a U.S. attorney,

602
00:24:53.260 --> 00:24:55.670
let alone a United States
federal judge.

603
00:24:55.670 --> 00:24:58.110
KEN BODDIE: Jefferson Beauregard
Sessions III,

604
00:24:58.110 --> 00:25:00.110
he was brought face
to face with things

605
00:25:00.110 --> 00:25:01.900
he personally had said.

606
00:25:01.900 --> 00:25:04.140
For example, that the NAACP

607
00:25:04.140 --> 00:25:05.560
and the Civil Liberties Union

608
00:25:05.560 --> 00:25:07.550
are un-American organizations.

609
00:25:07.550 --> 00:25:09.420
JEFF SESSIONS: These comments
that you could say

610
00:25:10.380 --> 00:25:13.500
about commie organizations
or something,

611
00:25:13.500 --> 00:25:16.400
I may have said something
like that in a general way,

612
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:18.310
and that probably was wrong.

613
00:25:18.310 --> 00:25:21.690
AMY GOODMAN: That was Jeff
Sessions back then in 1986.

614
00:25:21.690 --> 00:25:23.900
He was rejected for the judgeship.

615
00:25:23.900 --> 00:25:27.670
Only once before in close
to half a century

616
00:25:27.670 --> 00:25:30.340
had the Senate Judiciary
Committee formally turned down

617
00:25:30.340 --> 00:25:33.560
a presidential nominee
for the federal bench.

618
00:25:33.560 --> 00:25:37.570
And now we move
forward to 2016.

619
00:25:37.570 --> 00:25:40.140
Cornell William Brooks,
another explanation

620
00:25:40.140 --> 00:25:42.340
of perhaps one of the reasons

621
00:25:42.340 --> 00:25:44.820
for the choice of Senator Sessions

622
00:25:44.820 --> 00:25:49.010
to be attorney general
is who Donald Trump has tapped

623
00:25:49.010 --> 00:25:51.190
to be a senior policy adviser,
Stephen Miller,

624
00:25:51.190 --> 00:25:55.480
the former chief of staff
of Jeff Sessions,

625
00:25:55.480 --> 00:25:59.350
who is not so much known
outside of Washington,

626
00:25:59.350 --> 00:26:03.170
but warmed up the speeches of Trump
all over the country.

627
00:26:03.170 --> 00:26:04.920
He was sort of the opening act.

628
00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:07.050
And he’s one of the ones

629
00:26:07.050 --> 00:26:10.310
who was credited with torpedoing

630
00:26:10.310 --> 00:26:14.360
the immigration
reform of 2014.

631
00:26:14.360 --> 00:26:16.200
Something that Senator Sessions

632
00:26:16.200 --> 00:26:18.500
has really made a name in right

633
00:26:18.500 --> 00:26:21.100
now is going after immigrants.

634
00:26:24.680 --> 00:26:26.090
CORNELL WILLIAM BROOKS: Yes.

635
00:26:26.090 --> 00:26:29.190
He represents a very dim view

636
00:26:29.190 --> 00:26:31.330
when it comes to immigration rights.

637
00:26:31.330 --> 00:26:32.930
And one of the things
I want to note here

638
00:26:32.930 --> 00:26:35.730
is we’re at a point
in America’s history

639
00:26:35.730 --> 00:26:38.340
where the electorate and the citizenry

640
00:26:38.340 --> 00:26:42.080
is more diverse
than it has ever been.

641
00:26:42.080 --> 00:26:45.160
So, to put forward
an attorney general

642
00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:49.070
nominee who stands in stark contrast

643
00:26:49.070 --> 00:26:52.250
to the reality
of American democracy

644
00:26:52.250 --> 00:26:54.430
in 2017—that
is to say,

645
00:26:54.430 --> 00:26:58.630
diverse and growing
increasingly so—is a throwback.

646
00:26:59.210 --> 00:27:02.330
It is a matter of stepping
into a backward

647
00:27:02.330 --> 00:27:04.470
and ugly past.

648
00:27:04.470 --> 00:27:05.730
Where we have seen
in the course

649
00:27:05.730 --> 00:27:08.510
of the last election this rise

650
00:27:08.510 --> 00:27:10.790
in anti-immigrant sentiment,

651
00:27:10.790 --> 00:27:14.080
which seems to have fueled
much of the Trump campaign,

652
00:27:14.080 --> 00:27:15.700
where we have seen in the latest

653
00:27:15.700 --> 00:27:19.890
FBI report a 67 percent increase

654
00:27:19.890 --> 00:27:25.550
in anti-Muslim hate crimes,

655
00:27:25.550 --> 00:27:27.170
where we have seen all around

656
00:27:27.170 --> 00:27:29.280
the country immigrant groups

657
00:27:29.280 --> 00:27:31.950
and communities of color marginalized

658
00:27:31.950 --> 00:27:34.020
and demeaned and dehumanized,

659
00:27:34.020 --> 00:27:36.320
to put forth this kind of a nominee

660
00:27:36.320 --> 00:27:38.960
at this hour of our
American democracy

661
00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:41.050
is, quite frankly, disturbing.

662
00:27:41.050 --> 00:27:43.560
And it stands in contrast

663
00:27:43.560 --> 00:27:46.390
to where most people
in this country want to go

664
00:27:46.390 --> 00:27:49.050
and where most legislators,
I believe, want to go,

665
00:27:49.050 --> 00:27:51.030
which is to say to respond

666
00:27:51.030 --> 00:27:53.170
to the need for immigration reform

667
00:27:53.170 --> 00:27:56.200
in a comprehensive,
thoughtful way.

668
00:27:56.200 --> 00:27:57.910
So that Senator Sessions

669
00:27:57.910 --> 00:28:00.650
really represents a backward

670
00:28:00.650 --> 00:28:02.430
turn and one that we oppose

671
00:28:02.430 --> 00:28:06.980
and that we stand beside many
immigrant rights in doing so.

672
00:28:06.980 --> 00:28:08.830
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, I want to ask
about the sentencing

673
00:28:08.830 --> 00:28:10.800
hearing underway this week
in Charleston,

674
00:28:10.800 --> 00:28:12.900
South Carolina,
for Dylann Roof,

675
00:28:12.900 --> 00:28:14.690
who faces a possible death sentence

676
00:28:14.690 --> 00:28:17.860
after he was convicted
in December of murdering nine

677
00:28:17.860 --> 00:28:19.520
black worshipers
at the Emanuel

678
00:28:19.520 --> 00:28:23.130
[AME] Church in June 2015.

679
00:28:23.130 --> 00:28:25.790
This week, as Roof acted
as his own attorney

680
00:28:25.790 --> 00:28:27.070
in a brief opening statement

681
00:28:27.070 --> 00:28:29.170
during the sentencing
phase of his trial,

682
00:28:29.170 --> 00:28:30.890
he offered no apology

683
00:28:30.890 --> 00:28:33.090
and no explanation
for his massacre,

684
00:28:33.090 --> 00:28:36.770
telling jurors he was
psychologically fit to stand trial.

685
00:28:36.770 --> 00:28:38.610
In the prosecutors’
opening statement,

686
00:28:38.610 --> 00:28:41.950
they quoted excerpts of a racist
manifesto written by Roof

687
00:28:41.950 --> 00:28:44.630
while he was held
in the Charleston jail.

688
00:28:44.630 --> 00:28:46.000
Roof wrote, quote,

689
00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:47.420
"I would like
to make it crystal

690
00:28:47.420 --> 00:28:49.700
clear I do not
regret what I did.

691
00:28:49.700 --> 00:28:51.010
... I am not sorry.

692
00:28:51.010 --> 00:28:54.570
I have not shed a tear
for the innocent people I killed."

693
00:28:55.250 --> 00:28:57.470
Cornell William Brooks,
you’re president

694
00:28:57.470 --> 00:28:59.820
and CEO of the NAACP,

695
00:28:59.820 --> 00:29:02.280
also a civil rights lawyer
and a minister.

696
00:29:02.280 --> 00:29:05.220
Your response
to what Dylann Roof wrote?

697
00:29:05.870 --> 00:29:07.550
CORNELL WILLIAM BROOKS: Well,
I’d also like to note that

698
00:29:07.550 --> 00:29:10.610
I’m also a minister in the African
Methodist Episcopal Church.

699
00:29:10.610 --> 00:29:13.190
I grew up in and around Charleston.

700
00:29:13.190 --> 00:29:16.780
I’m very familiar
with Mother Emanuel Church.

701
00:29:16.780 --> 00:29:18.270
And it is, quite simply,

702
00:29:18.270 --> 00:29:23.450
heartbreaking to hear the killer,

703
00:29:23.450 --> 00:29:25.010
the murderer,

704
00:29:25.010 --> 00:29:26.660
one person I refer

705
00:29:26.660 --> 00:29:30.430
to as a racial terrorist,

706
00:29:30.430 --> 00:29:32.970
refer to the taking of lives

707
00:29:32.970 --> 00:29:34.480
in such a cavalier,

708
00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:37.960
callous and inhumane fashion

709
00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:40.080
and show absolutely no remorse.

710
00:29:40.080 --> 00:29:43.390
The NAACP stands unapologetically

711
00:29:43.390 --> 00:29:44.940
against the death penalty.

712
00:29:44.940 --> 00:29:47.200
We do so as a matter
of principle.

713
00:29:47.800 --> 00:29:49.540
That being said,

714
00:29:49.540 --> 00:29:52.110
we support the prosecution

715
00:29:52.110 --> 00:29:54.190
and the punishment to the fullest

716
00:29:54.190 --> 00:29:56.470
and the firmest
extent of the law

717
00:29:56.470 --> 00:29:58.110
for someone who has engaged

718
00:29:58.110 --> 00:30:01.520
in what we called a hate crime
from the very beginning.

719
00:30:01.520 --> 00:30:05.460
I recall standing on the sidewalk
outside of Emanuel

720
00:30:05.460 --> 00:30:07.900
AME Church shortly

721
00:30:07.900 --> 00:30:11.000
after nine students
of scripture were slain

722
00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:14.210
in that church beside—I should say,

723
00:30:14.210 --> 00:30:15.580
including the pastor.

724
00:30:15.580 --> 00:30:19.260
And I recall referring to the crime,

725
00:30:19.260 --> 00:30:20.850
but also talking about the fact

726
00:30:20.850 --> 00:30:23.830
that while there’s a climate
of caring in the country,

727
00:30:23.830 --> 00:30:25.860
there’s also an environment of hate.

728
00:30:25.860 --> 00:30:28.290
So we’re concerned
about Dylann Roof

729
00:30:28.290 --> 00:30:29.720
and him being punished.

730
00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:32.650
We’re also concerned
about the racial animus,

731
00:30:32.650 --> 00:30:35.450
the sanitized, homogenized,

732
00:30:35.450 --> 00:30:37.890
alt-right atmosphere
in the country

733
00:30:37.890 --> 00:30:41.120
that is giving rise
to this kind of sentiment

734
00:30:41.120 --> 00:30:42.770
and driving violent crimes.

735
00:30:42.770 --> 00:30:45.660
We’ve seen this
around the country.

736
00:30:45.660 --> 00:30:50.210
We’ve seen it in the FBI
hate crimes statistics.

737
00:30:50.210 --> 00:30:52.490
We’ve certainly seen it
in the numbers reported out by

738
00:30:52.490 --> 00:30:53.990
the Anti-Defamation League.

739
00:30:53.990 --> 00:30:57.050
And so, as chilling
and as concerning

740
00:30:57.050 --> 00:30:59.590
and as alarming as the sentencing phase

741
00:30:59.590 --> 00:31:02.510
of the trial of Dylann Roof is,

742
00:31:02.510 --> 00:31:05.020
we should be chilled
and concerned

743
00:31:05.020 --> 00:31:08.050
and alarmed
about the state of America,

744
00:31:08.050 --> 00:31:12.930
because Dylann Roof may seem like
an abhorrent aberration,

745
00:31:13.690 --> 00:31:16.410
but we’re concerned
that that kind of behavior

746
00:31:16.410 --> 00:31:17.800
can be normalized

747
00:31:17.800 --> 00:31:22.610
because of the racial
animus in the country,

748
00:31:22.610 --> 00:31:25.100
the xenophobic attitudes
in the country,

749
00:31:25.100 --> 00:31:27.800
the homophobic attitudes in the country.

750
00:31:27.800 --> 00:31:29.780
The point being here is,

751
00:31:29.780 --> 00:31:32.730
we cannot separate the tone

752
00:31:32.730 --> 00:31:35.550
and tenor of the last campaign

753
00:31:35.550 --> 00:31:38.260
from what’s going on
in Charleston even as we speak.

754
00:31:38.260 --> 00:31:41.250
And so, the NAACP is standing
in firm opposition

755
00:31:41.250 --> 00:31:45.280
to both the atmosphere that gave rise
to Dylann Roof’s crimes,

756
00:31:45.280 --> 00:31:49.480
even as we call for his
prosecution and punishment.

757
00:31:49.480 --> 00:31:51.160
And so, make no mistake:

758
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:53.580
This is not about the trial
of one individual;

759
00:31:53.580 --> 00:31:55.740
it’s about the state
of America more broadly.

760
00:31:55.740 --> 00:31:57.870
AMY GOODMAN: Cornell William Brooks,
we want to thank you for being with us,

761
00:31:57.870 --> 00:31:59.990
president and CEO of the NAACP.

762
00:31:59.990 --> 00:32:01.770
Thank you for joining us.
CORNELL WILLIAM BROOKS: Thank you.

763
00:32:01.770 --> 00:32:03.840
AMY GOODMAN: When we
come back from break,

764
00:32:03.840 --> 00:32:06.600
as WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange
tells Fox News Russia

765
00:32:06.600 --> 00:32:08.950
is not the source
for the mass leak of emails

766
00:32:08.950 --> 00:32:10.460
from the Democratic
National Committee,

767
00:32:10.460 --> 00:32:13.610
the Senate holds a hearing today
on Russian cyber-attacks.

768
00:32:13.610 --> 00:32:15.350
This comes as President-elect Trump

769
00:32:15.350 --> 00:32:16.570
has backed Assange

770
00:32:16.570 --> 00:32:18.250
and called media coverage
of the hacking

771
00:32:18.250 --> 00:32:20.200
"more dishonest
than anyone knows."

772
00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:21.800
We’ll speak with
Pulitzer Prize-winning

773
00:32:21.800 --> 00:32:23.390
journalist Glenn Greenwald.

774
00:33:32.230 --> 00:33:35.050
Stay with us.

775
00:33:40.830 --> 00:33:42.760
NERMEEN SHAIKH: This morning,
the Senate Armed Services

776
00:33:42.760 --> 00:33:46.210
Committee holds a hearing
on alleged Russian cyber-attacks,

777
00:33:46.210 --> 00:33:47.720
and top intelligence officials

778
00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:50.700
are briefing President Obama
on a review of evidence

779
00:33:50.700 --> 00:33:52.490
that Russia hacked
the email servers

780
00:33:52.490 --> 00:33:54.540
of the Democratic
National Committee.

781
00:33:54.540 --> 00:33:55.840
BuzzFeed News reports

782
00:33:55.840 --> 00:33:58.560
the FBI never examined
DNC servers

783
00:33:58.560 --> 00:34:00.530
before issuing its report.

784
00:34:00.530 --> 00:34:03.250
President-elect Trump
will be briefed on Friday.

785
00:34:03.250 --> 00:34:05.330
This comes as he’s
supporting statements

786
00:34:05.330 --> 00:34:07.540
by WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange

787
00:34:07.540 --> 00:34:09.250
that Russia was not the source

788
00:34:09.250 --> 00:34:12.590
for the mass leak of emails
from the Democratic Party.

789
00:34:12.590 --> 00:34:14.850
Assange made the claim
during an interview

790
00:34:14.850 --> 00:34:16.810
with Fox News’ Sean Hannity.

791
00:34:17.780 --> 00:34:19.890
JULIAN ASSANGE: We have said repeatedly

792
00:34:19.890 --> 00:34:22.080
over the last two months

793
00:34:22.080 --> 00:34:23.490
that our source

794
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:26.210
is not the Russian government,

795
00:34:26.210 --> 00:34:28.240
and it is not a state party.

796
00:34:28.860 --> 00:34:31.330
NERMEEN SHAIKH: On Wednesday,
Trump tweeted, quote,

797
00:34:31.330 --> 00:34:33.220
"Julian Assange said 'a 14 year

798
00:34:33.220 --> 00:34:35.520
old could have hacked Podesta'

799
00:34:35.520 --> 00:34:37.760
–why was DNC so careless?

800
00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:40.810
Also said Russians did
not give him the info!"

801
00:34:40.810 --> 00:34:44.020
Another tweet cited Assange
saying U.S. media coverage

802
00:34:44.020 --> 00:34:46.860
on the issue was, quote,
"very dishonest"

803
00:34:46.860 --> 00:34:48.400
and, Trump added, quote,

804
00:34:48.400 --> 00:34:50.490
"More dishonest
than anyone knows."

805
00:34:50.490 --> 00:34:52.700
AMY GOODMAN: This followed Trump’s
tweet on Tuesday

806
00:34:52.700 --> 00:34:54.990
that, quote,
"The 'Intelligence'"—with

807
00:34:54.990 --> 00:34:57.160
"Intelligence"
in quotes—"The 'Intelligence'

808
00:34:57.160 --> 00:34:58.740
briefing on so-called 'Russian

809
00:34:58.740 --> 00:35:00.700
hacking' was delayed
until Friday,

810
00:35:00.700 --> 00:35:02.770
perhaps more time
needed to build a case.

811
00:35:02.770 --> 00:35:05.040
Very strange!" unquote.

812
00:35:05.040 --> 00:35:06.660
The Wall Street
Journal reports Trump

813
00:35:06.660 --> 00:35:08.470
is planning an overhaul of the CIA

814
00:35:08.470 --> 00:35:11.040
and the Office of the Director
of National Intelligence

815
00:35:11.040 --> 00:35:13.900
that will limit the power
of the spy agencies

816
00:35:13.900 --> 00:35:16.410
but put more spies
on the streets.

817
00:35:16.410 --> 00:35:18.660
Well, for more, we’re joined
by Glenn Greenwald,

818
00:35:18.660 --> 00:35:20.160
Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist,

819
00:35:20.160 --> 00:35:21.920
one of the founding editors
of The Intercept.

820
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:23.370
His latest article is headlined

821
00:35:23.370 --> 00:35:26.030
"WashPost Is Richly Rewarded
for False News

822
00:35:26.030 --> 00:35:28.630
About Russia Threat While
Public Is Deceived."

823
00:35:28.630 --> 00:35:32.200
In it, he writes, "Any story
that bolsters the prevailing D.C.

824
00:35:32.200 --> 00:35:34.030
orthodoxy on the Russia Threat,

825
00:35:34.030 --> 00:35:36.780
no matter how dubious,
is spread far and wide.

826
00:35:36.780 --> 00:35:39.000
And then, as has happened so often,

827
00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:41.450
when the story turns out
to be false or misleading,

828
00:35:41.450 --> 00:35:44.820
little or nothing is done
to correct the deceitful effects."

829
00:35:44.820 --> 00:35:46.790
Glenn, welcome to Democracy Now!

830
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:50.230
We have never seen
Julian Assange in the news

831
00:35:50.230 --> 00:35:52.660
as much as he is—and cited,

832
00:35:52.660 --> 00:35:54.820
as he is being cited

833
00:35:54.820 --> 00:35:58.050
by President-elect Donald Trump.

834
00:35:58.050 --> 00:36:00.940
Talk about what we know

835
00:36:00.940 --> 00:36:04.080
at this point
around the hacking.

836
00:36:04.080 --> 00:36:08.130
The briefings are being had now
by President Obama today,

837
00:36:08.130 --> 00:36:09.840
President-elect Trump tomorrow.

838
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:13.510
President-elect Trump
is citing Julian Assange

839
00:36:13.510 --> 00:36:16.440
over the intelligence chiefs

840
00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:17.770
that will brief him tomorrow.

841
00:36:20.610 --> 00:36:21.610
GLENN GREENWALD: 
What’s most remarkable,

842
00:36:21.610 --> 00:36:24.270
given how much discussion
there has been,

843
00:36:24.270 --> 00:36:27.110
how many media reports
have been devoted to this topic,

844
00:36:27.110 --> 00:36:29.810
what we actually know
about any of this

845
00:36:29.810 --> 00:36:31.140
is very little.

846
00:36:31.140 --> 00:36:34.610
Of course, it’s possible
that the Russian government

847
00:36:34.610 --> 00:36:37.270
was actually behind these hacks.

848
00:36:37.270 --> 00:36:39.980
Nobody has ever said
that Russia didn’t do it.

849
00:36:39.980 --> 00:36:42.100
Nobody has ever said
that this is the sort of thing

850
00:36:42.100 --> 00:36:43.340
Putin wouldn’t do.

851
00:36:43.340 --> 00:36:45.500
This is the kind of stuff
that the U.S.

852
00:36:45.500 --> 00:36:47.620
and Russia have both done to one another

853
00:36:47.620 --> 00:36:49.740
and to multiple countries
around the world

854
00:36:49.740 --> 00:36:51.000
for many decades,

855
00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:53.460
not just things like this,
but far, far worse,

856
00:36:53.460 --> 00:36:56.580
in terms of interfering
in other countries’ democracies

857
00:36:56.580 --> 00:36:58.540
and in their
internal affairs.

858
00:36:58.540 --> 00:37:00.850
The real issue, though,
is that there has been

859
00:37:00.850 --> 00:37:05.320
a very extreme dearth of evidence

860
00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:07.470
to actually support the claims

861
00:37:07.470 --> 00:37:09.760
that have come from
the U.S. government, largely,

862
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:12.600
though not exclusively,
through anonymous sources

863
00:37:12.600 --> 00:37:14.480
laundered through newspapers.

864
00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:17.310
People were very skeptical,
rightly so,

865
00:37:17.310 --> 00:37:18.810
when Julian Assange came out

866
00:37:18.810 --> 00:37:20.730
and declared
that his source

867
00:37:20.730 --> 00:37:23.500
was not the Russian government
or any state actor.

868
00:37:23.500 --> 00:37:25.880
There’s good reasons
for skepticism about

869
00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:28.990
whether Julian even knows that and,
if he does know that,

870
00:37:28.990 --> 00:37:32.140
whether he’s accurately describing
who his source is,

871
00:37:32.140 --> 00:37:34.290
when he has a duty
to protect his source.

872
00:37:34.290 --> 00:37:37.940
Unfortunately, there is very
little skepticism being applied

873
00:37:37.940 --> 00:37:40.060
to the agencies
that have repeatedly

874
00:37:40.060 --> 00:37:42.020
misled and deceived

875
00:37:42.020 --> 00:37:43.400
and lied to the American public,

876
00:37:43.400 --> 00:37:46.080
which is the CIA and other
intelligence agencies,

877
00:37:46.080 --> 00:37:48.720
who, when they’re not lying,
are often simply wrong,

878
00:37:48.720 --> 00:37:51.640
particularly when it comes to things
like attribution of a hack,

879
00:37:51.640 --> 00:37:54.480
which is a very difficult
thing to pin down.

880
00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:59.570
And so, you have a really
consequential and dangerous issue,

881
00:37:59.570 --> 00:38:01.780
which is ratcheting up tensions

882
00:38:01.780 --> 00:38:04.190
between two nuclear-armed powers,

883
00:38:04.190 --> 00:38:06.390
who have decades of tensions,

884
00:38:06.390 --> 00:38:09.390
who have almost come to nuclear war
on multiple occasions

885
00:38:09.390 --> 00:38:12.240
simply through misperception
and miscommunication.

886
00:38:12.240 --> 00:38:14.340
And all of this is happening
in a media environment

887
00:38:14.340 --> 00:38:16.100
that has proven over and over

888
00:38:16.100 --> 00:38:17.880
that they’ll print anything,

889
00:38:17.880 --> 00:38:19.970
no matter how false and dubious,

890
00:38:19.970 --> 00:38:21.530
if it feeds the hysteria

891
00:38:21.530 --> 00:38:24.500
about Vladimir Putin and the Russians.

892
00:38:24.500 --> 00:38:26.480
And so, this is
a really toxic environment,

893
00:38:26.480 --> 00:38:27.710
and I think that journalists

894
00:38:27.710 --> 00:38:29.620
ought to be
trying to rein it in

895
00:38:29.620 --> 00:38:32.100
and to demand some skepticism
and restraint,

896
00:38:32.100 --> 00:38:35.130
and, most of all,
insist on seeing evidence,

897
00:38:35.650 --> 00:38:38.540
conclusive evidence,
publicly presented,

898
00:38:38.540 --> 00:38:40.960
that what the CIA and the other
intelligence agencies

899
00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:42.470
are claiming about
the Russian government

900
00:38:42.470 --> 00:38:44.630
and what they did here
is actually correct.

901
00:38:44.630 --> 00:38:45.870
AMY GOODMAN: But are you surprised

902
00:38:45.870 --> 00:38:49.290
to hear what—that

903
00:38:49.290 --> 00:38:51.430
what Assange has to say

904
00:38:51.430 --> 00:38:55.400
is being repeated by Donald Trump,
the president-elect?

905
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:57.870
I mean, go back to 2010,

906
00:38:57.870 --> 00:39:00.920
when Trump had a very different position

907
00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:03.390
on WikiLeaks and Julian Assange.

908
00:39:03.390 --> 00:39:05.990
As he was preparing
to appear on Fox News’

909
00:39:05.990 --> 00:39:07.810
Brian Kilmeade’s radio program,

910
00:39:07.810 --> 00:39:12.110
Trump had this to say
when the show host brought up WikiLeaks.

911
00:39:12.820 --> 00:39:14.110
DONALD TRUMP: Well, I think
it’s disgraceful.

912
00:39:14.110 --> 00:39:15.120
BRIAN KILMEADE: You think
it’s disgraceful?

913
00:39:15.120 --> 00:39:17.190
DONALD TRUMP: I think this should be
like death penalty or something.

914
00:39:18.380 --> 00:39:21.520
AMY GOODMAN: "He should be given
the death penalty or something,"

915
00:39:21.520 --> 00:39:23.800
Donald Trump said in 2010.

916
00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:26.420
At the time, Trump was host
of the reality

917
00:39:26.420 --> 00:39:28.930
television series Celebrity Apprentice.

918
00:39:28.930 --> 00:39:30.470
So, Glenn Greenwald,

919
00:39:30.470 --> 00:39:32.900
can you talk about
Trump’s change of heart?

920
00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:38.030
GLENN GREENWALD: Sure. Trump’s change
of heart is purely opportunistic.

921
00:39:38.030 --> 00:39:40.230
It’s obvious that that’s the case.

922
00:39:40.230 --> 00:39:42.590
Republicans hated WikiLeaks

923
00:39:42.590 --> 00:39:44.750
when they were
publishing cables

924
00:39:44.750 --> 00:39:46.280
about what the Bush administration

925
00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:48.410
was doing in both Iraq
and Afghanistan,

926
00:39:48.410 --> 00:39:49.970
the war crimes that were committed.

927
00:39:49.970 --> 00:39:52.530
They wanted them
hung as traitors.

928
00:39:52.530 --> 00:39:55.500
They wanted Julian Assange
hurled into the United States

929
00:39:55.500 --> 00:39:57.300
to be imprisoned or worse.

930
00:39:57.300 --> 00:39:59.190
There were lots of calls
for his death

931
00:39:59.190 --> 00:40:01.360
on Fox News and elsewhere.

932
00:40:02.070 --> 00:40:03.420
And that was at the same time,

933
00:40:03.420 --> 00:40:05.130
by the way,
that lots of Democrats

934
00:40:05.130 --> 00:40:07.530
and liberals were praising WikiLeaks

935
00:40:07.530 --> 00:40:10.720
for bringing needed transparency
to the war crimes

936
00:40:10.720 --> 00:40:12.830
and the abuses
of the Bush administration.

937
00:40:12.830 --> 00:40:15.320
Now both sides have done
a complete reversal,

938
00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:17.510
for the same reasons
we’ve seen over and over,

939
00:40:17.510 --> 00:40:19.410
which is partisan opportunism.

940
00:40:19.410 --> 00:40:21.400
WikiLeaks became this year

941
00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:23.680
a leaker not of documents

942
00:40:23.680 --> 00:40:26.020
that reflected poorly
on the Bush administration,

943
00:40:26.020 --> 00:40:29.100
but that reflected poorly
on the Clinton campaign

944
00:40:29.100 --> 00:40:30.470
and Hillary Clinton.

945
00:40:30.470 --> 00:40:34.050
And as a result, Democrats went
from supporting WikiLeaks

946
00:40:34.050 --> 00:40:35.730
and viewing them as heroic

947
00:40:35.730 --> 00:40:37.970
and important agents
of transparency

948
00:40:37.970 --> 00:40:40.570
to viewing them
as traitors and liars

949
00:40:40.570 --> 00:40:42.520
and people that ought
to be convicted.

950
00:40:42.520 --> 00:40:46.020
And Republicans did exactly
the opposite reversal,

951
00:40:46.020 --> 00:40:47.600
for exactly the same reasons,

952
00:40:47.600 --> 00:40:50.180
which is they went
from viewing Julian Assange

953
00:40:50.180 --> 00:40:52.660
as a traitor to being a hero

954
00:40:52.660 --> 00:40:55.450
and an important conduit
for information

955
00:40:55.450 --> 00:40:57.470
that the public has
the right to know.

956
00:40:57.470 --> 00:40:59.030
And the polling,
you can just look at it,

957
00:40:59.030 --> 00:41:01.450
and you see the Democrats
completely reversing

958
00:41:01.450 --> 00:41:03.260
what their view of WikiLeaks

959
00:41:03.260 --> 00:41:05.960
is from 2010 to 2016,

960
00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:08.540
and you see exactly
the same thing with Republicans,

961
00:41:08.540 --> 00:41:10.740
although it is amazing
that not just Donald Trump,

962
00:41:10.740 --> 00:41:12.540
but even someone
like Sarah Palin,

963
00:41:12.540 --> 00:41:15.460
who also called
for WikiLeaks’s death,

964
00:41:15.460 --> 00:41:19.010
execution, who herself
had her own emails published

965
00:41:19.010 --> 00:41:21.760
by WikiLeaks in the past,
going on Facebook and saying,

966
00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:24.070
"I want to apologize
to Julian Assange.

967
00:41:24.070 --> 00:41:25.700
He’s doing a really
important service.

968
00:41:25.700 --> 00:41:27.230
And P.S., it’s really important

969
00:41:27.230 --> 00:41:29.710
to go see Oliver
Stone’s film about Snowden."

970
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:32.710
This is the ideological realignment

971
00:41:32.710 --> 00:41:35.300
that Trump’s victory has ushered in.

972
00:41:35.300 --> 00:41:37.760
It has caused everybody
to be very disoriented,

973
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:39.040
to lose their footing.

974
00:41:39.040 --> 00:41:40.280
And that’s what you’re seeing,

975
00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:42.320
is a lot of just
grappling for positioning

976
00:41:42.320 --> 00:41:44.080
and people abandoning positions

977
00:41:44.080 --> 00:41:45.840
they’ve held for
a really long time,

978
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:48.070
for reasons of convenience
and opportunism.

979
00:41:48.650 --> 00:41:50.220
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, we don’t know
—to go back

980
00:41:50.220 --> 00:41:51.600
to the intelligence

981
00:41:51.600 --> 00:41:54.990
briefings scheduled for today
and tomorrow,

982
00:41:54.990 --> 00:41:58.180
we don’t know what
these briefings will reveal,

983
00:41:58.180 --> 00:42:01.500
but some have said that
U.S. intelligence agencies

984
00:42:01.500 --> 00:42:03.300
have not published evidence

985
00:42:03.300 --> 00:42:04.520
for their findings

986
00:42:04.520 --> 00:42:06.530
on Russian involvement
in the election

987
00:42:06.530 --> 00:42:10.380
for fear of exposing
their sources.

988
00:42:10.380 --> 00:42:13.570
Do you think that’s
a legitimate concern,

989
00:42:13.570 --> 00:42:17.300
since it’s one that journalists
frequently invoke?

990
00:42:19.910 --> 00:42:21.250
GLENN GREENWALD: 
It’s possibly legitimate,

991
00:42:21.250 --> 00:42:23.290
depending upon what
the evidence is.

992
00:42:23.290 --> 00:42:25.700
But because we don’t know
what the evidence is,

993
00:42:25.700 --> 00:42:27.200
all we can do is speculate.

994
00:42:27.200 --> 00:42:30.570
So, assume they have the most
conclusive evidence possible,

995
00:42:30.570 --> 00:42:32.640
that they literally have a wiretap

996
00:42:32.640 --> 00:42:36.250
of Vladimir Putin personally
on a telephone call

997
00:42:36.250 --> 00:42:37.750
or through an email ordering

998
00:42:37.750 --> 00:42:40.830
the hacks of the DNC and Podesta
in order to help Donald Trump.

999
00:42:40.830 --> 00:42:44.590
Just let’s fantasize that that’s
the evidence that they have.

1000
00:42:44.590 --> 00:42:46.050
Is there a good reason for them

1001
00:42:46.050 --> 00:42:47.950
not to want to publicly disclose that?

1002
00:42:47.950 --> 00:42:49.130
Of course there’s a good reason,

1003
00:42:49.130 --> 00:42:52.150
which is that it would
blow their methodology

1004
00:42:52.150 --> 00:42:54.710
for how they’ve accessed
the communications

1005
00:42:54.710 --> 00:42:56.640
at the highest level
of the Kremlin.

1006
00:42:56.640 --> 00:42:59.310
The problem, however,
is that whatever legitimacy

1007
00:42:59.310 --> 00:43:00.620
they might have

1008
00:43:00.620 --> 00:43:03.140
for wanting to keep
this evidence a secret,

1009
00:43:03.140 --> 00:43:05.530
we, as citizens,
and we, as journalists,

1010
00:43:05.530 --> 00:43:07.740
are then put into a position

1011
00:43:07.740 --> 00:43:11.280
where we either have
to blindly believe

1012
00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:13.180
what it
is they’re claiming—

1013
00:43:13.180 --> 00:43:15.060
notwithstanding their long history

1014
00:43:15.060 --> 00:43:17.330
of lying and deceit and error,

1015
00:43:17.330 --> 00:43:18.610
we just say,

1016
00:43:18.610 --> 00:43:21.230
"We appreciate the fact that
you can’t show us this evidence.

1017
00:43:21.230 --> 00:43:23.460
We’re willing to blindly
put our faith

1018
00:43:23.460 --> 00:43:24.980
in the accusations
that you’ve made,

1019
00:43:24.980 --> 00:43:26.330
and believe them to be true,

1020
00:43:26.330 --> 00:43:29.760
even though you can’t show us
the evidence"—or we say,

1021
00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:32.010
"As citizens and as journalists,
look, we understand

1022
00:43:32.010 --> 00:43:34.030
that you can’t show us
this evidence,

1023
00:43:34.030 --> 00:43:36.330
but because we can’t
see the evidence,

1024
00:43:36.330 --> 00:43:38.420
we’re not willing
to blindly assume

1025
00:43:38.420 --> 00:43:40.220
these accusations to be true

1026
00:43:40.220 --> 00:43:42.990
and then resurrect a Cold War
and pursue aggressive

1027
00:43:42.990 --> 00:43:46.350
and bellicose policies
the way John McCain

1028
00:43:46.350 --> 00:43:49.060
and Lindsey Graham and Democrats
in the Senate want to do,

1029
00:43:49.060 --> 00:43:50.920
because we don’t see evidence

1030
00:43:50.920 --> 00:43:52.830
that what you’re claiming is true."

1031
00:43:52.830 --> 00:43:54.730
And I think that’s the dilemma,

1032
00:43:54.730 --> 00:43:56.320
is that, as journalists and citizens,

1033
00:43:56.320 --> 00:43:58.880
we need to see evidence
before believing

1034
00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:01.760
claims from institutions
that have proven over and over

1035
00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:03.320
that they’re willing
to lie and mislead.

1036
00:44:03.320 --> 00:44:05.260
AMY GOODMAN: Glenn, we have to break,
then we’ll come back

1037
00:44:05.260 --> 00:44:06.120
to this conversation.

1038
00:44:06.120 --> 00:44:08.700
Glenn Greenwald,
Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist,

1039
00:44:08.700 --> 00:44:11.660
one of the founding editors
of The Intercept.

1040
00:44:11.660 --> 00:44:12.840
This is Democracy Now!

1041
00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:14.660
We’ll be back with him
in Rio de Janeiro,

1042
00:44:14.660 --> 00:44:16.660
Brazil, in a minute.

1043
00:45:32.420 --> 00:45:34.970
NERMEEN SHAIKH: We’re talking about
WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange

1044
00:45:34.970 --> 00:45:37.650
and allegations
of Russian cyber-attacks.

1045
00:45:37.650 --> 00:45:41.200
During his interview with Fox
News’ Sean Hannity this week,

1046
00:45:41.200 --> 00:45:43.780
Assange was asked
whether mainstream media

1047
00:45:43.780 --> 00:45:46.070
in the U.S. is dishonest.

1048
00:45:46.790 --> 00:45:48.310
JULIAN ASSANGE: 
It’s very dishonest.

1049
00:45:49.340 --> 00:45:51.610
"Corrupt" is interesting;
it depends on your definition.

1050
00:45:52.430 --> 00:45:55.410
If you look at what we published
in the Podesta emails—

1051
00:45:55.410 --> 00:45:57.110
SEAN HANNITY: Wait a minute.
If they’re colluding with Hillary,

1052
00:45:57.110 --> 00:45:58.220
that’s not corrupt?

1053
00:45:58.220 --> 00:46:00.120
JULIAN ASSANGE: 
It’s an ethical corruption.

1054
00:46:00.660 --> 00:46:03.180
SEAN HANNITY: They’re not identifying
it to their audiences.

1055
00:46:03.180 --> 00:46:05.290
They claim that
they’re objective journalists.

1056
00:46:05.290 --> 00:46:06.540
JULIAN ASSANGE: It’s ethically corrupt,

1057
00:46:07.460 --> 00:46:09.530
corrupt by its—"corruption"

1058
00:46:09.530 --> 00:46:10.860
also means something in law,

1059
00:46:10.860 --> 00:46:13.670
which is that you’re
taking money in exchange.

1060
00:46:13.670 --> 00:46:15.000
SEAN HANNITY: OK.
JULIAN ASSANGE: So I don’t that—

1061
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:17.170
SEAN HANNITY: Collusion.
JULIAN ASSANGE: They’re colluding, yeah.

1062
00:46:17.170 --> 00:46:19.790
SEAN HANNITY: Because they share
her political agenda.

1063
00:46:21.270 --> 00:46:23.370
Well, why else would they collude?
Or they hate Donald Trump.

1064
00:46:23.370 --> 00:46:25.640
JULIAN ASSANGE: I think that’s
an optimistic interpretation,

1065
00:46:25.640 --> 00:46:26.910
that they share
the political agenda.

1066
00:46:26.910 --> 00:46:28.120
SEAN HANNITY: Well, explain that.

1067
00:46:28.120 --> 00:46:29.340
JULIAN ASSANGE: It’s more like,

1068
00:46:29.340 --> 00:46:31.770
"You rub my back, I’ll rub yours."

1069
00:46:31.770 --> 00:46:34.280
I’ll give you—you know,
I’ll give you information.

1070
00:46:34.280 --> 00:46:38.890
You’ll be—you’ll come
to my—I’ll invite you

1071
00:46:38.890 --> 00:46:40.820
to my child’s christening

1072
00:46:40.820 --> 00:46:42.660
or our next big party or—do
you know what I mean?

1073
00:46:43.280 --> 00:46:46.700
AMY GOODMAN: That’s WikiLeaks founder
Julian Assange on Fox News.

1074
00:46:46.700 --> 00:46:50.860
Glenn Greenwald, your latest article
for The Intercept is headlined

1075
00:46:50.860 --> 00:46:54.300
"WashPost Is Richly Rewarded
for False News About Russia

1076
00:46:54.300 --> 00:46:56.810
Threat While Public Is Deceived."

1077
00:46:56.810 --> 00:47:00.310
So, could you comment
on what Assange said

1078
00:47:00.310 --> 00:47:02.290
and your own findings

1079
00:47:02.290 --> 00:47:05.550
regarding mainstream media coverage

1080
00:47:05.550 --> 00:47:08.130
of alleged Russian cyber-attacks?

1081
00:47:10.540 --> 00:47:12.940
GLENN GREENWALD: So let’s focus
on the extraordinary behavior

1082
00:47:12.940 --> 00:47:15.010
of The Washington Post
for the moment.

1083
00:47:15.010 --> 00:47:17.250
They have produced two

1084
00:47:17.250 --> 00:47:20.030
of the most humiliating debacles

1085
00:47:20.030 --> 00:47:21.770
in American journalism

1086
00:47:21.770 --> 00:47:23.200
over the last several years.

1087
00:47:23.200 --> 00:47:27.320
And these two humiliations
have taken place

1088
00:47:27.320 --> 00:47:29.120
just within the last six weeks,

1089
00:47:29.120 --> 00:47:33.240
both of which were about
completely fictitious and fabricated

1090
00:47:33.240 --> 00:47:37.430
claims about the threat posed
by Vladimir Putin and Russia.

1091
00:47:37.430 --> 00:47:40.160
The first was on November 24th,
when they claimed,

1092
00:47:40.160 --> 00:47:43.140
based on a newly formed
anonymous group,

1093
00:47:43.140 --> 00:47:46.680
that there has been
a very widespread,

1094
00:47:46.680 --> 00:47:50.750
successful effort to implant
Kremlin propaganda

1095
00:47:50.750 --> 00:47:52.710
in the American discourse.

1096
00:47:52.710 --> 00:47:55.300
And they accomplish
this by giving credence

1097
00:47:55.300 --> 00:47:57.160
to this secret list

1098
00:47:57.160 --> 00:48:00.280
that this anonymous
group of cowards had created

1099
00:48:00.280 --> 00:48:02.160
in which they claim
that a whole range

1100
00:48:02.160 --> 00:48:04.870
of American media
outlets and websites,

1101
00:48:04.870 --> 00:48:06.200
such as the Drudge Report

1102
00:48:06.200 --> 00:48:07.700
and other libertarian critics

1103
00:48:07.700 --> 00:48:09.310
of Hillary Clinton
on the right

1104
00:48:09.310 --> 00:48:12.400
and long-standing left-wing
critics of the Democratic Party,

1105
00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:14.830
like Naked Capitalism
and Truthout and Truthdig

1106
00:48:14.830 --> 00:48:17.300
on the left—they decree them

1107
00:48:17.300 --> 00:48:19.810
to be tools of Kremlin propaganda.

1108
00:48:19.810 --> 00:48:23.000
And The Washington Post
created this huge story,

1109
00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:25.020
that went all over the place,

1110
00:48:25.020 --> 00:48:26.540
based upon giving credence

1111
00:48:26.540 --> 00:48:27.760
to this list

1112
00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:30.430
and saying that Russian propaganda
had been viewed

1113
00:48:30.430 --> 00:48:33.470
more than 200 million times
in the United States.

1114
00:48:33.470 --> 00:48:35.910
Journalists all over Twitter,
throughout the American media,

1115
00:48:35.910 --> 00:48:39.300
mindlessly spread it,
aggressively endorsed it.

1116
00:48:39.300 --> 00:48:40.930
It became a huge story.

1117
00:48:40.930 --> 00:48:42.540
And over the course
of the next two weeks,

1118
00:48:42.540 --> 00:48:44.120
the story completely collapsed,

1119
00:48:44.120 --> 00:48:45.830
and there’s now a major editor’s note

1120
00:48:45.830 --> 00:48:50.080
at the top of the article
disclaiming the key source,

1121
00:48:50.080 --> 00:48:52.980
saying that they did not intend
to in any way vouch

1122
00:48:52.980 --> 00:48:54.340
for the validity

1123
00:48:54.340 --> 00:48:56.380
of the findings
of the source

1124
00:48:56.380 --> 00:48:58.020
on which the entire story was based.

1125
00:48:58.020 --> 00:49:00.160
But even more embarrassing
was this weekend,

1126
00:49:00.160 --> 00:49:03.980
when the Post trumpeted
this story on Friday night

1127
00:49:03.980 --> 00:49:05.510
that Vladimir Putin and Russia

1128
00:49:05.510 --> 00:49:08.750
had hacked into the electric grid

1129
00:49:08.750 --> 00:49:11.340
of the United States
through a Vermont utility,

1130
00:49:11.340 --> 00:49:14.030
which caused Vermont officials
like the governor and Senator

1131
00:49:14.030 --> 00:49:16.360
Pat Leahy to issue statements
saying Vladimir

1132
00:49:16.360 --> 00:49:19.650
Putin is trying
to endanger the safety

1133
00:49:19.650 --> 00:49:21.410
and the welfare of Vermonters

1134
00:49:21.410 --> 00:49:24.020
by stealing their heat
in the winter.

1135
00:49:24.020 --> 00:49:26.330
The whole story, from start to finish,

1136
00:49:26.330 --> 00:49:28.630
turned out to be
a complete fabrication.

1137
00:49:28.630 --> 00:49:31.960
There was no invasion
of the American electric grid.

1138
00:49:31.960 --> 00:49:35.880
The malware that was found on one laptop
had nothing to do with Russia.

1139
00:49:35.880 --> 00:49:37.400
The story was completely false.

1140
00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:40.100
And again, the American media,
in this hysteria,

1141
00:49:40.100 --> 00:49:41.780
kept spreading
and endorsing it.

1142
00:49:41.780 --> 00:49:45.000
And in both cases,
the retractions were barely noted.

1143
00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:46.600
So you have millions of people

1144
00:49:46.600 --> 00:49:49.130
being misled into this hysteria,

1145
00:49:49.130 --> 00:49:51.670
into this view that Russia
is this grave threat,

1146
00:49:51.670 --> 00:49:54.400
and when the story
journalistically collapses,

1147
00:49:54.400 --> 00:49:55.980
they barely hear about it.

1148
00:49:55.980 --> 00:49:57.930
And it happened over and over
through the election,

1149
00:49:57.930 --> 00:50:00.740
with Slate saying that a secret server
had been found

1150
00:50:00.740 --> 00:50:02.990
between Donald Trump
and a Russian bank,

1151
00:50:02.990 --> 00:50:05.170
which turned out
to be completely false.

1152
00:50:05.170 --> 00:50:06.830
The Post aired allegations

1153
00:50:06.830 --> 00:50:08.970
that Putin had poisoned
Hillary Clinton

1154
00:50:08.970 --> 00:50:11.690
on the day
that she collapsed on 9/11.

1155
00:50:11.690 --> 00:50:14.150
And so, it’s not really
just dishonesty.

1156
00:50:14.150 --> 00:50:17.500
It’s the kind of behavior
we saw in 2002,

1157
00:50:17.500 --> 00:50:18.760
where American media outlets

1158
00:50:18.760 --> 00:50:20.780
are willing to publish anything

1159
00:50:20.780 --> 00:50:23.140
that the U.S. government
tells them to publish,

1160
00:50:23.140 --> 00:50:25.930
to inflate and expand
the threat posed by Russia,

1161
00:50:25.930 --> 00:50:29.920
to raise fear levels
to the highest possible degree.

1162
00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:31.770
And it’s an incredibly irresponsible

1163
00:50:31.770 --> 00:50:34.820
and dangerous form of behavior
that media outlets,

1164
00:50:34.820 --> 00:50:36.900
led by The Washington Post,
are engaging in.

1165
00:50:37.520 --> 00:50:40.820
AMY GOODMAN: And you talk
about how retractions

1166
00:50:40.820 --> 00:50:43.470
obviously don’t get anything
like the play of the story,

1167
00:50:43.470 --> 00:50:47.200
that also has to do with
what’s tweeted by the publication,

1168
00:50:47.200 --> 00:50:49.190
even when they retract,
and what isn’t, Glenn.

1169
00:50:51.490 --> 00:50:53.290
GLENN GREENWALD: Right. So let me
just give you two examples

1170
00:50:53.290 --> 00:50:55.090
of just the corruption
that’s at play here.

1171
00:50:55.090 --> 00:50:58.710
So, when the Post
unveiled their huge story

1172
00:50:58.710 --> 00:51:02.410
about Russia fake news
based on this McCarthyite list

1173
00:51:02.410 --> 00:51:04.800
that has been proven
to be a fraud,

1174
00:51:04.800 --> 00:51:07.140
they had Marty Baron,
the executive editor,

1175
00:51:07.140 --> 00:51:09.700
the widely respected
executive editor of the paper,

1176
00:51:09.700 --> 00:51:12.500
go onto Twitter and announce
this huge exposé.

1177
00:51:12.500 --> 00:51:14.840
And predictably, it got tweeted
and retweeted

1178
00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:17.520
and shared thousands
and thousands of times

1179
00:51:17.520 --> 00:51:19.010
by all of the biggest journalists

1180
00:51:19.010 --> 00:51:21.210
with the biggest
social media followings.

1181
00:51:21.210 --> 00:51:24.100
When the story collapsed over
the next two weeks

1182
00:51:24.100 --> 00:51:26.590
and they appended
this huge editor’s note,

1183
00:51:26.590 --> 00:51:28.440
The Washington Post did nothing

1184
00:51:28.440 --> 00:51:30.480
to bring anyone’s attention
to the fact

1185
00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:32.940
that the key claims
of the story have been gutted.

1186
00:51:32.940 --> 00:51:35.880
Marty Baron refused to
answer any questions

1187
00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:38.600
over that two weeks
about what the paper did,

1188
00:51:38.600 --> 00:51:42.800
and he uttered not one syllable
on Twitter or anywhere else

1189
00:51:42.800 --> 00:51:44.280
to tell all the followers

1190
00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:46.070
that he alerted
to this story

1191
00:51:46.070 --> 00:51:48.910
that the story had collapsed.

1192
00:51:48.910 --> 00:51:51.210
With the story
that I just talked about

1193
00:51:51.210 --> 00:51:52.460
over the weekend
of the—of

1194
00:51:52.460 --> 00:51:56.280
how Putin had wanted to steal
the heat from Vermonters

1195
00:51:56.280 --> 00:51:59.120
to make them suffer
in the winter, Brent Staples,

1196
00:51:59.120 --> 00:52:01.490
who works for The New York
Times editorial page,

1197
00:52:01.490 --> 00:52:03.080
went on Twitter and said,

1198
00:52:03.080 --> 00:52:06.730
"Our friend Putin has invaded
the U.S. electric grid."

1199
00:52:06.730 --> 00:52:08.350
And when that story collapsed

1200
00:52:08.350 --> 00:52:10.460
and The Washington Post
retracted it,

1201
00:52:10.460 --> 00:52:12.090
he did something even worse:

1202
00:52:12.090 --> 00:52:15.560
He just went and quietly
deleted his tweet a day later,

1203
00:52:15.560 --> 00:52:17.420
as though it never happened,

1204
00:52:17.420 --> 00:52:20.660
and also failed to tell
his 30,000 followers

1205
00:52:20.660 --> 00:52:22.500
that what he had just
told them the day before,

1206
00:52:22.500 --> 00:52:23.950
that caused them
to run around and share

1207
00:52:23.950 --> 00:52:25.900
with all their friends
on Facebook and Twitter

1208
00:52:25.900 --> 00:52:28.990
that this has happened,
was in fact a complete fiction.

1209
00:52:28.990 --> 00:52:31.500
And you see this over
and over and over again.

1210
00:52:31.500 --> 00:52:34.120
And remember, these are the people
who keep saying

1211
00:52:34.120 --> 00:52:36.960
that fake news is a huge problem,

1212
00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:38.890
that Facebook has to suppress it.

1213
00:52:38.890 --> 00:52:41.370
And yet it’s America’s
leading journalistic outlets

1214
00:52:41.370 --> 00:52:43.260
that are doing more
to disseminate false

1215
00:52:43.260 --> 00:52:44.810
and deceitful stories

1216
00:52:44.810 --> 00:52:47.750
than Macedonian teenagers
by a huge amount.

1217
00:52:47.750 --> 00:52:49.430
And when they do it
and it turns out

1218
00:52:49.430 --> 00:52:51.280
that the stories are discredited,

1219
00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:54.160
they take very little to no steps

1220
00:52:54.160 --> 00:52:55.370
to alert the people

1221
00:52:55.370 --> 00:52:58.570
that they’ve misled about the fact
that the stories were false.

1222
00:52:58.570 --> 00:53:00.820
And it’s incredibly
reckless journalistically.

1223
00:53:00.820 --> 00:53:02.130
And these are the same people

1224
00:53:02.130 --> 00:53:04.660
pretending to be crusaders
against fake news,

1225
00:53:04.660 --> 00:53:07.040
who are themselves disseminating
it more aggressively

1226
00:53:07.040 --> 00:53:08.260
than anyone else.

1227
00:53:08.260 --> 00:53:10.700
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Glenn Greenwald,
let me ask you about

1228
00:53:10.700 --> 00:53:14.680
the possible use of Twitter
for the dissemination

1229
00:53:14.680 --> 00:53:18.880
of other kinds of
possibly fake information.

1230
00:53:19.740 --> 00:53:21.820
You’ve repeatedly emphasized,
as you just did,

1231
00:53:21.820 --> 00:53:23.240
the role of Twitter

1232
00:53:23.240 --> 00:53:26.990
in spreading false news
by news media outlets.

1233
00:53:26.990 --> 00:53:30.850
But this may be the first time
in global history

1234
00:53:30.850 --> 00:53:32.860
that a head of state,
and that, too,

1235
00:53:32.860 --> 00:53:34.980
of the most powerful state
in the world,

1236
00:53:34.980 --> 00:53:38.920
seems likely to use
precisely this medium

1237
00:53:38.920 --> 00:53:42.470
as one of his principal
modes of communication.

1238
00:53:42.470 --> 00:53:44.890
Do you think there are
similar risks involved

1239
00:53:44.890 --> 00:53:46.490
with official pronouncement

1240
00:53:46.490 --> 00:53:49.130
conveyed through Twitter as you say

1241
00:53:49.130 --> 00:53:52.960
and have explained are
with journalistic use

1242
00:53:53.630 --> 00:53:55.630
of this medium?

1243
00:53:56.980 --> 00:53:58.510
GLENN GREENWALD: So I think
there are two sides to this.

1244
00:53:59.770 --> 00:54:02.300
One is, there’s
a potential—a potential

1245
00:54:02.300 --> 00:54:06.280
virtue to having politicians
being able to communicate

1246
00:54:06.280 --> 00:54:08.400
directly to their constituents

1247
00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:10.050
and the people
they represent

1248
00:54:10.050 --> 00:54:12.770
without having to be mediated
by American media outlets,

1249
00:54:12.770 --> 00:54:15.370
especially ones that have proven
to be untrustworthy.

1250
00:54:15.370 --> 00:54:17.110
So, in some sense,

1251
00:54:17.110 --> 00:54:19.050
I actually think
it’s positive,

1252
00:54:19.050 --> 00:54:20.730
under the right circumstances,

1253
00:54:20.730 --> 00:54:22.600
for a political leader—not Donald Trump,

1254
00:54:22.600 --> 00:54:25.170
but just for political
officials generally—to

1255
00:54:25.170 --> 00:54:27.690
have a means to communicate
directly to the people

1256
00:54:27.690 --> 00:54:29.930
who they’re supposed
to be representing

1257
00:54:29.930 --> 00:54:34.670
and who can then hear feedback
back from those people.

1258
00:54:34.670 --> 00:54:37.050
I mean, in theory,
that would be a good model.

1259
00:54:37.050 --> 00:54:41.510
The problem with Donald Trump
using this is twofold.

1260
00:54:41.510 --> 00:54:44.220
One is that when you’re
the actual president

1261
00:54:44.220 --> 00:54:46.050
of the world’s largest superpower

1262
00:54:46.050 --> 00:54:48.200
with a massive
nuclear arsenal,

1263
00:54:48.200 --> 00:54:50.810
using Twitter is an
extremely dangerous venue

1264
00:54:50.810 --> 00:54:55.110
because it inherently has all kinds
of ambiguities and possibilities

1265
00:54:55.110 --> 00:54:57.080
for being misunderstood

1266
00:54:57.080 --> 00:54:59.060
and for misleading people

1267
00:54:59.060 --> 00:55:00.630
into what your actual
intentions are.

1268
00:55:00.630 --> 00:55:01.990
And that has happened over and over,

1269
00:55:01.990 --> 00:55:03.250
where so many of his tweets

1270
00:55:03.250 --> 00:55:05.580
are not even susceptible
to reasoned discourse,

1271
00:55:05.580 --> 00:55:07.930
where you don’t even know
what he means.

1272
00:55:07.930 --> 00:55:11.320
And when a president is issuing
those kinds of ambiguous statements,

1273
00:55:11.320 --> 00:55:13.520
those are the kinds of things
that can ratchet up tensions

1274
00:55:13.520 --> 00:55:16.580
unintentionally
and even spark wars.

1275
00:55:16.580 --> 00:55:19.580
But I think there’s another sort of
more pernicious aspect to it,

1276
00:55:19.580 --> 00:55:21.610
which is what Trump is doing is

1277
00:55:21.610 --> 00:55:23.270
he’s trying to discredit

1278
00:55:23.270 --> 00:55:25.650
every single source
of information

1279
00:55:25.650 --> 00:55:26.950
other than Donald Trump.

1280
00:55:26.950 --> 00:55:29.440
So, he’s telling his followers,

1281
00:55:29.440 --> 00:55:31.110
"Don’t listen to the American media,

1282
00:55:31.110 --> 00:55:32.320
because they’re liars."

1283
00:55:32.320 --> 00:55:35.370
He’s telling them, "Don’t listen
to the intelligence community,

1284
00:55:35.370 --> 00:55:37.520
because they defrauded
you with Iraq."

1285
00:55:37.520 --> 00:55:40.040
He’s telling them,
"Don’t listen to experts,

1286
00:55:40.040 --> 00:55:41.940
because these experts
are all corrupted

1287
00:55:41.940 --> 00:55:44.070
and they’re part
of the D.C. swamp,"

1288
00:55:44.070 --> 00:55:45.310
that he wants to drain.

1289
00:55:45.310 --> 00:55:49.570
"The only truth that you should trust
comes from me, Donald Trump."

1290
00:55:49.570 --> 00:55:52.910
And that is a very dangerous framework.

1291
00:55:52.910 --> 00:55:56.040
It’s pure authoritarianism
when a political leader

1292
00:55:56.040 --> 00:55:59.300
also becomes the only
source of information

1293
00:55:59.300 --> 00:56:00.780
that the population trusts.

1294
00:56:00.780 --> 00:56:02.940
But, unfortunately,
his biggest allies

1295
00:56:02.940 --> 00:56:05.480
in that are media outlets

1296
00:56:05.480 --> 00:56:06.680
who have done
the kinds of things

1297
00:56:06.680 --> 00:56:08.340
that I just explained
The Washington Post

1298
00:56:08.340 --> 00:56:10.480
having done and journalists
having helped them.

1299
00:56:10.480 --> 00:56:13.240
They’re the reason
why people are losing faith

1300
00:56:13.240 --> 00:56:14.530
in American media outlets.

1301
00:56:14.530 --> 00:56:16.730
And that’s what gives space
to a demagogue

1302
00:56:16.730 --> 00:56:18.380
like Donald Trump to say,

1303
00:56:18.380 --> 00:56:20.190
"I’m the only person
who you can trust."

1304
00:56:20.190 --> 00:56:23.350
And his use of Twitter
is really a weapon,

1305
00:56:23.350 --> 00:56:24.560
a powerful weapon,

1306
00:56:24.560 --> 00:56:27.600
in achieving that
dangerous state of affairs.

1307
00:56:27.600 --> 00:56:31.560
AMY GOODMAN: China’s state
news agency Xinhua said,

1308
00:56:31.560 --> 00:56:35.990
"Twitter should not become
an instrument of foreign policy,"

1309
00:56:35.990 --> 00:56:39.730
warning President-elect Trump.

1310
00:56:39.730 --> 00:56:41.690
But, Glenn, as we wrap up,

1311
00:56:41.690 --> 00:56:43.370
your concerns right now?

1312
00:56:43.370 --> 00:56:47.220
In the headline, we just said
that Donald Trump says

1313
00:56:47.220 --> 00:56:50.360
he’s going to overhaul
the intelligence agencies,

1314
00:56:50.360 --> 00:56:52.640
which many might think
is a good thing,

1315
00:56:52.640 --> 00:56:54.760
cutting back Virginia,

1316
00:56:54.760 --> 00:56:57.410
the headquarters,

1317
00:56:57.410 --> 00:57:01.940
less computer
internet surveillance,

1318
00:57:01.940 --> 00:57:04.000
more human surveillance,

1319
00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:06.790
getting more spies out
on the streets.

1320
00:57:06.790 --> 00:57:08.990
Where is this country
going now, Glenn?

1321
00:57:08.990 --> 00:57:11.190
Your perspective,
from outside now,

1322
00:57:11.190 --> 00:57:13.190
though as an American?

1323
00:57:14.930 --> 00:57:17.130
GLENN GREENWALD: I mean, I think
it really remains to be seen,

1324
00:57:17.130 --> 00:57:18.340
but there are definitely

1325
00:57:18.340 --> 00:57:20.770
fundamental changes
taking place.

1326
00:57:20.770 --> 00:57:23.140
If you look, for example,
at recent polling,

1327
00:57:23.140 --> 00:57:25.200
what you find is that the CIA

1328
00:57:25.200 --> 00:57:27.190
is now one of the most admired

1329
00:57:27.190 --> 00:57:30.190
and defended institutions
among Democrats,

1330
00:57:30.190 --> 00:57:33.080
while Republicans
don’t like the CIA

1331
00:57:33.590 --> 00:57:37.300
and actually prefer
Vladimir Putin even to Barack Obama.

1332
00:57:37.300 --> 00:57:40.860
You have radical shifts
taking place in coalitions,

1333
00:57:40.860 --> 00:57:43.210
in alliances, in alignments,

1334
00:57:43.810 --> 00:57:46.960
and it can—it’s very unpredictable
how it can play out.

1335
00:57:46.960 --> 00:57:50.160
Sometimes instability could
produce positive outcomes.

1336
00:57:50.160 --> 00:57:52.190
Trump abrogated the TPP.

1337
00:57:52.190 --> 00:57:56.050
He wants to limit Boeing
and Lockheed

1338
00:57:56.050 --> 00:57:57.630
and the amount of money
that’s spent on them.

1339
00:57:57.630 --> 00:57:59.570
He wants to bring jobs
back to the U.S.

1340
00:57:59.570 --> 00:58:02.050
But it can also have
very dangerous outcomes,

1341
00:58:02.050 --> 00:58:03.780
as well, because
of its unpredictability.

1342
00:58:03.780 --> 00:58:06.200
And so, I think
it’s a very dangerous time

1343
00:58:06.200 --> 00:58:08.070
for the United States,

1344
00:58:08.070 --> 00:58:11.600
and it’s one of the reasons why
I’m hoping Democrats find their footing

1345
00:58:11.600 --> 00:58:13.660
and become a lot more focused

1346
00:58:13.660 --> 00:58:15.390
and reasoned

1347
00:58:15.390 --> 00:58:17.650
and stop sort of wallowing

1348
00:58:17.650 --> 00:58:19.770
in these radical conspiracy theories

1349
00:58:19.770 --> 00:58:21.370
that make them appear unhinged,

1350
00:58:21.370 --> 00:58:24.560
because Donald Trump
needs a cohesive

1351
00:58:24.560 --> 00:58:26.950
and focused and effective opposition.

1352
00:58:26.950 --> 00:58:28.590
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to leave
it there, Glenn Greenwald.

1353
00:58:28.590 --> 00:58:30.300
Thanks so much for being with us,

1354
00:58:30.300 --> 00:58:31.850
Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist,

1355
00:58:31.850 --> 00:58:33.720
one of the founding editors
of The Intercept.

1356
00:58:33.720 --> 00:58:36.280
We’ll link to your pieces,
most recently,

1357
00:58:36.280 --> 00:58:40.670
"WashPost Is Richly Rewarded for False
News About Russia Threat While

1358
00:58:40.670 --> 00:58:57.240
Public Is Deceived."