WEBVTT

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From Pacifica,

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this is Democracy Now!

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President Trump pushes
Senate Republicans

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to use the nuclear option

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if needed to push through
the confirmation

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of Supreme Court nominee Neil Gorsuch.

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Meanwhile, Democrats are
attempting to fight back

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by boycotting committee votes
on three Cabinet picks.

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We’ll get the latest
with Ryan Grim of

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The Huffington Post.

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Plus, we’ll speak
to an immigration lawyer

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suing the Trump administration

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over its ban on refugees

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and citizens from seven
majority-Muslim nations.

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And we hear the voice
of a Holocaust survivor

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and former refugee,

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the late grandmother
of Donald Trump’s

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son-in-law, Jared Kushner.

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We never can understand this.

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Even our good President Roosevelt,

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how come he kept the doors

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so closed to us
for such a long time?

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How come a boat then for exodus

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for—at the border
are returned back to be killed?

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This question I’ll never know,

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and nobody will give me the answer.

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And this man did live
a very hard life.

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We’ll speak with
The Nation’s Lizzy Ratner,

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author of a new piece,

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"Nobody Wanted to Take Us In:

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The Story of Jared
Kushner’s Family, and Mine."

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All that and more, coming up.

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Welcome to Democracy Now!,

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democracynow.org,
The War and Peace Report.

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I’m Amy Goodman.

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The full Senate
has confirmed longtime

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ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson

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to be secretary of state.

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Reuters reports
the 56-43 Senate vote

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was the closest vote—by
a wide margin—for

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a secretary of state nominee
in at least a half-century.

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Three Democrats backed
Tillerson’s nomination:

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Mark Warner of Virginia,
Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota

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and Joe Manchin
of West Virginia.

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Trump’s nomination of Tillerson

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has been widely condemned
by environmental activists.

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Naomi Klein has said Tillerson

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and other Trump
Cabinet picks represent

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a "corporate coup."

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The Senate Judiciary
Committee also

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approved the nomination
of Senator Jeff

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Sessions to be attorney general
in a straight party-line vote.

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Jeff Sessions’s confirmation
has also faced

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widespread protests

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over his opposition
to the Voting Rights Act

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and his history
of making racist comments.

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On Monday, about 10
members of the NAACP,

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including President
Cornell William Brooks,

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were arrested at a sit-in

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at Sessions’s office
in Mobile, Alabama.

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At Sessions’ Senate confirmation
hearing in January,

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protesters wore white,

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hooded robes and pretended

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to be members
of the Ku Klux Klan.

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Sessions once reportedly said
he thought the Ku Klux Klan was

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"OK until I found
out they smoked pot."

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On Wednesday, a protester
from the group CodePink

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disrupted the Senate Judiciary
Committee’s meeting.

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Sen. Chuck Grassley: "The nomination
is approved by the committee

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and will be a report—will
report to the floor.

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Meeting over."
CodePink protester: "Shame! Shame!

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Shame! You have furthered
the nomination of a man

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who will not protect
the vulnerable.

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That’s why we have
an attorney general,

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to protect the vulnerable."

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Meanwhile, Democratic
lawmakers on the Senate

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Finance Committee boycotted
committee votes

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on two of Donald Trump’s
Cabinet picks:

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Steven Mnuchin for treasury secretary

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and Tom Price for health
and human services secretary.

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The committee rules
require at least

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one Democrat present to vote.

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Republicans on the committee
then suspended the rules

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and voted to send the two nominations

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to the Senate floor.

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Democrats on the Environment

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and Public Works Committee also

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boycotted a vote on Scott Pruitt

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to become head
of the Environmental

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Protection Agency.

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Scott Pruitt is a longtime ally
of the fossil fuel industry.

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In other Senate news,
the confirmation

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of Betsy DeVos
as education

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secretary appears to be on thin ice

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as two Republicans—Senators
Susan Collins

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and Lisa Murkowski—
announced plans

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to vote against DeVos,

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leaving Senate Republicans

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one vote short
of confirming her.

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If the Senate vote is 50-50,

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Vice President Mike Pence

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would then cast
the deciding vote—an event

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that has never happened
to any other presidential

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nominee in history.

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DeVos is a longtime backer
of charter schools

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and vouchers for private
and religious schools.

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She and her husband
have also invested

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in a student debt
collection agency

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that does business
with the Education Department.

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As for President Trump’s
Supreme Court nomination

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of Judge Neil Gorsuch,

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Trump has urged
the Republican leadership

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to consider using the so-called
nuclear option—that is,

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instituting a rule change
to prohibit filibusters—

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to push through
the confirmation.

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Senate Democrats have vowed
to filibuster his nomination.

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International relations
between Trump’s administration

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and multiple foreign governments
deteriorated Wednesday,

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as Trump’s national security
adviser publicly threatened

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Iran and new information emerged
about heated conversations

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between Trump and the leaders
of Mexico and Australia.

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On Wednesday,
National Security Adviser

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Michael Flynn condemned Iran’s
recent ballistic missile test launch

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and said the U.S.
was putting Iran "on notice."

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Michael Flynn: "President Trump
has severely criticized

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the various agreements

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reached between Iran
and the Obama administration,

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as well as the United Nations,
as being weak and ineffective.

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Instead of being thankful
to the United States

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in these agreements,
Iran is now feeling emboldened.

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As of today, we are officially
putting Iran on notice."

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Many experts, as well
as Iran’s Foreign Ministry,

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say the missile test
does not violate

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the terms of a 2015

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U.N. Security Council resolution.

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The test also does not violate

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the terms of the landmark
2015 nuclear deal

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between Iran,
the U.S. and other nations.

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During his campaign, Trump vowed
to dismantle the Iran nuclear deal,

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which he called "the stupidest
deal of all time."

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The Washington Post
is reporting that Trump

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abruptly ended a call

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with Australian Prime Minister Malcolm

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Turnbull on Saturday after complaining

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about the terms of a refugee deal

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between the U.S. and Australia

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and telling Turnbull

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that their conversation
was the "worst call by far"

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that he’d had with
a foreign leader that day.

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Under the Obama administration,

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the United States
had pledged to accept

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and resettle 1,250 refugees

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from a detention center in Australia.

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But when Turnbull asked Trump to confirm

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the U.S. would honor
this agreement,

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Trump reportedly called it
"the worst deal ever"

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and claimed the refugees could include
the "next Boston bombers."

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The U.S. and Australia
have been longtime allies.

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Meanwhile, the Associated Press
is reporting Trump

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reportedly threatened
to send U.S. troops to Mexico

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during a phone call

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with Mexican President Enrique
Peña Nieto on Friday.

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According to excerpts
of the transcript obtained

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by the Associated Press,

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Trump told Peña Nieto,

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"You have a bunch of bad
hombres down there.

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You aren’t doing enough to stop them.

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I think your military is scared.

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Our military isn’t,

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so I just might send them down
to take care of it."

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In Delaware, prisoners
at the James T.

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Vaughn Correctional Center in Smyrna
have launched an uprising,

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taking correctional officers hostage
and demanding improved education

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and rehabilitation services.

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The rebellion began
Wednesday morning,

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when some prisoners
took four guards hostage

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and issued their demands.

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At around 5 a.m.
Thursday morning,

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Delaware state police
stormed the building.

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Authorities say
one corrections officer

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who was being held
hostage is dead.

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This is a phone call
from inside the prison Wednesday.

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Listen carefully.
Prisoner: "Donald Trump,

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everything that he did,
all the things that he’s doing now,

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we know that the institution
is going to change for the worse.

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We know the institution is going
to change for the worse.

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We’ve got demands that you need
to pay attention to.

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Education. We want education,
first and foremost.

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We want a rehabilitation program

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that works for everybody.

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We want the money
to be allocated

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so we can know exactly what’s
going on in the prison."

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In North Dakota,
76 water protectors

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fighting the $3.8
billion Dakota Access pipeline

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were arrested Wednesday,
after militarized police

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raided a new protest camp

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set up on historic
Sioux treaty land.

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The Last Child Camp
was established

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on the west side
of Highway 1806

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near the main Oceti
Sakowin Camp.

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The land is now owned
by Energy Transfer Partners,

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the company behind the pipeline.

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This is water protector
and former North Dakota

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congressional candidate
Chase Iron Eyes.

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Chase Iron Eyes: "We just
established a new camp

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called the Last Child’s Camp

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in honor of Crazy Horse,

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who created that
warrior society in 1873."

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Chase Iron Eyes was among
the dozens arrested Wednesday.

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The Army Corps of Engineers appears

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poised to grant the final permit

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required for Energy
Transfer Partners

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to finish construction.

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A group of military veterans,
called Veterans Stand,

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has vowed to stop
the construction of the pipeline.

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Meanwhile, a jury
in Morton County

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has convicted eight water
protectors of misdemeanor charges

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related to the resistance
to the Dakota Access pipeline.

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In more Dakota Access news,

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a Seattle City Council
committee has voted

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to divest $3 billion
in city funds

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from Wells Fargo, amid concerns

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about Wells Fargo’s
investments in the pipeline.

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The full Seattle City Council

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will vote on the legislation Monday.

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A mistrial has been declared

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in the case of environmental
activist Ken Ward,

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who was facing
three felony charges

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and one misdemeanor charge
after he shut off a valve

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on the Trans Mountain pipeline
in Washington state

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to stop the flow of tar sands

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oil coming into the United States
from Canada in October.

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His action was part
of a coordinated protest

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during which the valves
on pipelines in Minnesota,

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Montana and North Dakota
were also shut off.

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The mistrial was declared after
a Skagit County, Washington,

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jury couldn’t
reach a verdict.

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In eastern Ukraine,
nearly a dozen soldiers

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have died in recent days
amid a surge in violence

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between Ukrainian troops
and Russian-backed separatists.

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European monitors
say there has been heavy

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shelling since the weekend.

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The U.S. backs
the Ukrainian military

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with training and equipment.

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Israel has announced it’s building

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an entirely new Jewish-only settlement

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in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.

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The move marks
the first brand-new,

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official settlement
in the West Bank built

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by the Israeli government
in about two decades,

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although Israeli settlers
have built unofficial settlements

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and the Israeli government
has dramatically expanded

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already existing
settlements.

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Last month, Israeli Prime Minister
Benjamin Netanyahu

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announced plans to begin construction

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on more than 5,000
housing units

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in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.

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In Berkeley, California,

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white nationalist Breitbart News editor

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Milo Yiannopoulos’s planned speech

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at the University
of California, Berkeley,

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was canceled amid massive protests.

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More than 1,000 people
came out to demonstrate

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against Yiannopoulos,

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who has a long history
of making racist,

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sexist and xenophobic statements.

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It’s the second time
in recent weeks University

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of California officials

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have been forced to cancel
one of his speeches

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due to student protests.

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This morning,
President Trump tweeted,

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"If U.C. Berkeley does not
allow free speech

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00:12:10.750 --> 00:12:13.010
and practices violence
on innocent people

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with a different point
of view–NO FEDERAL FUNDS?"

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The group Refuse Fascism says, however,

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00:12:19.940 --> 00:12:24.120
"People who protest Milo
are not opposing free speech,

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they are opposing
a fascist America,

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which is the actual, real,

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and gravely serious threat

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to basic rights of speech,

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00:12:30.530 --> 00:12:32.610
assembly, and intellectual life."

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And President Trump
is facing criticism

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after he appeared to suggest
that the great abolitionist

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and writer Frederick Douglass,

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who was born into
slavery around 1818

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and died in 1895,

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is still, in fact, alive.

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This is Donald Trump,
speaking at a Black

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History Month event on Wednesday.

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President Donald Trump: 
"I am very proud now

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00:12:54.950 --> 00:12:56.920
that we have a museum
on the National Mall

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where people can learn about
Reverend King, so many other things.

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Frederick Douglass
is an example

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of somebody who’s done
an amazing job

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and is being recognized
more and more, I notice."

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That’s President Trump speaking
about Frederick Douglass,

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one of the most revered
abolitionists in U.S. history.

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Later on Wednesday,
reporters asked White House

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00:13:18.180 --> 00:13:21.040
Press Secretary Sean Spicer
about Trump’s comments.

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This is Sean Spicer.

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Reporter: "About Frederick Douglass
being recognized more and more,

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00:13:26.010 --> 00:13:28.890
do you have any idea what
specifically he was referring to?"

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00:13:28.890 --> 00:13:30.210
Press Secretary Sean Spicer: "Well,
I think there’s contributions—

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I think he wants to highlight
the contributions

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that he has made.

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And I think, through a lot
of the actions

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and statements
that he’s going to make,

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I think the contributions
of Frederick Douglass

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will become more and more."

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And those are some
of the headlines

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00:13:42.290 --> 00:13:44.950
this is Democracy Now,
Democracynow.org,

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00:13:44.950 --> 00:13:46.230
the War and Peace Report.

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I’m Amy Goodman.

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NERMEEN SHAIKH: It was a chaotic day
on Capitol Hill Wednesday.

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00:13:55.930 --> 00:13:59.030
The Senate confirmed
Exxon CEO Rex Tillerson

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00:13:59.030 --> 00:14:01.330
by a vote of 56 to 43.

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00:14:01.890 --> 00:14:04.730
Reuters reports it was
the closest vote—by

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00:14:04.730 --> 00:14:06.310
a wide margin—for

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00:14:06.310 --> 00:14:09.990
a secretary of state nominee
in at least a half-century.

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00:14:09.990 --> 00:14:13.120
Three Democrats backed
Tillerson’s nomination:

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00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:14.850
Mark Warner of Virginia,

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00:14:14.850 --> 00:14:17.830
Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota

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00:14:17.830 --> 00:14:20.530
and Joe Manchin
of West Virginia.

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00:14:20.530 --> 00:14:22.470
The Senate Judiciary
Committee also

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00:14:22.470 --> 00:14:24.520
approved the nomination
of Senator Jeff

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00:14:24.520 --> 00:14:28.580
Sessions to be attorney general
in a straight party-line vote.

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00:14:29.220 --> 00:14:31.410
Meanwhile, Democratic lawmakers
on the Senate

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00:14:31.410 --> 00:14:33.830
Finance Committee boycotted
committee votes

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00:14:33.830 --> 00:14:36.290
on two of Donald Trump’s
Cabinet picks:

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Steven Mnuchin for treasury secretary

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00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:41.640
and Tom Price for health
and human services secretary.

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00:14:41.640 --> 00:14:44.220
Republicans on the committee
then suspended the rules

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00:14:44.220 --> 00:14:46.120
and voted to send the two nominations

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00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:47.560
to the Senate floor.

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00:14:47.560 --> 00:14:50.750
Senator Sherrod Brown defended
the Democratic boycott.

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00:14:51.530 --> 00:14:53.210
SEN. SHERROD BROWN: 
What’s next is we want

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00:14:53.210 --> 00:14:56.570
the secretary designee
of Health and Human Services

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00:14:56.570 --> 00:14:59.690
and secretary designee
of treasurer to own up.

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00:14:59.690 --> 00:15:02.720
The respected newspapers,
conservative newspapers,

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00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:06.440
both, say they lied about
essential information.

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00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:08.500
In our state, the secretary
of the Treasury,

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00:15:08.500 --> 00:15:11.320
his company,
his bank,

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00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:15.310
foreclosed on at least
hundreds of Ohioans wrongfully.

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00:15:15.310 --> 00:15:17.690
And I want him to explain
what happened,

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00:15:17.690 --> 00:15:19.610
why he did it, what he did.

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00:15:19.610 --> 00:15:21.390
And I would hope he could
make people whole,

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00:15:21.390 --> 00:15:24.680
when they basically threw people
out of their homes.

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00:15:24.680 --> 00:15:26.330
AMY GOODMAN: Democrats on
the Environment

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00:15:26.330 --> 00:15:27.960
and Public Works Committee also

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00:15:27.960 --> 00:15:29.680
boycotted a vote on Scott Pruitt

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00:15:29.680 --> 00:15:32.470
to become head of the Environmental
Protection Agency.

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00:15:32.470 --> 00:15:34.790
In other Senate news,
the confirmation

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00:15:34.790 --> 00:15:36.860
of Betsy DeVos
as education

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00:15:36.860 --> 00:15:39.400
secretary appears to be on thin ice

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00:15:39.400 --> 00:15:42.320
as two Republicans—Senators
Susan Collins

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00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:44.870
and Lisa Murkowski—
announced plans

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00:15:44.870 --> 00:15:46.580
to vote against DeVos,

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00:15:46.580 --> 00:15:48.070
leaving Senate Republicans

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00:15:48.070 --> 00:15:50.670
one vote short
of confirming her.

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00:15:50.670 --> 00:15:53.180
If the Senate vote is 50-50,

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00:15:53.180 --> 00:15:54.780
Vice President Mike Pence

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00:15:54.780 --> 00:15:57.640
would then cast
the deciding vote—an event

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00:15:57.640 --> 00:15:58.840
that has never happened to

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00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:01.540
any other presidential
nominee in history.

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00:16:01.540 --> 00:16:04.260
DeVos is a longtime backer
of charter schools

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00:16:04.260 --> 00:16:06.590
and vouchers for private
and religious schools.

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00:16:06.590 --> 00:16:08.380
She and her husband
have also invested

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00:16:08.380 --> 00:16:10.450
in a student debt
collection agency

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00:16:10.450 --> 00:16:12.950
that does business
with the Education Department.

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00:16:12.950 --> 00:16:14.380
And to cap off the day,

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00:16:14.380 --> 00:16:17.570
President Trump urged
the Republican leadership

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00:16:17.570 --> 00:16:20.830
to consider using the so-called
nuclear option—that’s

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00:16:20.830 --> 00:16:24.300
instituting a rule change
to prohibit filibusters—

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00:16:24.300 --> 00:16:26.040
to push through
the confirmation

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00:16:26.040 --> 00:16:29.490
of Supreme Court nominee Neil Gorsuch.

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00:16:29.490 --> 00:16:32.250
To make sense of what’s
happening on Capitol Hill,

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00:16:32.250 --> 00:16:34.120
we’re joined now by Ryan Grim,

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00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:36.450
Washington bureau chief
for The Huffington Post.

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00:16:36.450 --> 00:16:38.780
His most recent piece is headlined

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00:16:38.780 --> 00:16:40.110
"After Trying
Everything Else,

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00:16:40.110 --> 00:16:42.930
Democrats Have Decided
to Listen to Their Voters."

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00:16:42.930 --> 00:16:44.980
So, explain
what you mean, Ryan.

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00:16:46.050 --> 00:16:48.020
RYAN GRIM: Well, I mean,
if you think about the history

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00:16:48.020 --> 00:16:49.020
of the Democratic Party,

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00:16:49.020 --> 00:16:52.340
you probably have to go back
to the early 1970s

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00:16:52.340 --> 00:16:55.440
to find a place where the activist base

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00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:58.210
was kind of leading
the party forward.

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00:16:58.210 --> 00:17:01.140
So, you know, right after
the inauguration,

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00:17:01.140 --> 00:17:03.410
Democrats—even Democrats

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00:17:03.410 --> 00:17:05.560
like Elizabeth Warren
and Bernie Sanders—were saying,

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00:17:05.560 --> 00:17:07.800
you know, "We’re willing
to work with Donald Trump.

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00:17:07.800 --> 00:17:09.470
We want to give him a chance."

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00:17:09.470 --> 00:17:12.330
And the Democratic base
kind of erupted at that,

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00:17:12.330 --> 00:17:15.080
and they were like, "No, this person
is a lunatic.

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00:17:15.080 --> 00:17:17.960
You cannot work with him.
You have to resist him at every step."

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00:17:17.960 --> 00:17:19.380
And kind of the mantra
of kind of

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00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:21.000
"resist or resign" rose up.

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00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:22.560
Then you had millions of people

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00:17:22.560 --> 00:17:24.110
filling the streets
with the women’s marches.

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00:17:24.110 --> 00:17:25.580
But it didn’t stop there.

401
00:17:25.580 --> 00:17:28.730
You’ve had people outside
of Democratic offices.

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00:17:28.730 --> 00:17:30.890
You’ve had phone calls pouring in.

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00:17:30.890 --> 00:17:34.750
And you’ve really seen
the tenor change on Capitol Hill.

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00:17:34.750 --> 00:17:36.930
And, you know,
moderate Democrats,

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00:17:36.930 --> 00:17:38.570
who in the past
would have been very happy

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00:17:38.570 --> 00:17:39.820
to work with,

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00:17:39.820 --> 00:17:42.100
say, a Rex Tillerson and vote

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00:17:42.100 --> 00:17:43.740
for a secretary
of state like that,

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00:17:43.740 --> 00:17:45.710
instead are saying no

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00:17:45.710 --> 00:17:47.290
and are demanding
more information.

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00:17:47.290 --> 00:17:49.180
They started boycotting hearings.

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00:17:49.180 --> 00:17:52.010
You even had Nancy Pelosi,
Chuck Schumer,

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00:17:52.010 --> 00:17:54.740
Cory Booker grab a bullhorn
and go to the Supreme Court

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00:17:54.740 --> 00:17:56.510
and kind of hold
an impromptu rally.

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00:17:56.510 --> 00:17:58.300
So, you know, they’re trying.

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00:17:58.300 --> 00:18:00.870
You know, they look a little bit awkward
at times when they’re doing it,

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00:18:00.870 --> 00:18:02.520
because they’re not used
to it—these are muscles

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00:18:02.520 --> 00:18:04.200
that haven’t been flexed
in a long time.

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00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:06.450
But clearly, they recognize that there

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00:18:06.450 --> 00:18:09.690
is a lot of energy
and opposition,

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00:18:09.690 --> 00:18:12.130
and that’s where they’re
headed at the moment.

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00:18:12.130 --> 00:18:14.990
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, let’s go back
to the Betsy DeVos’s confirmation

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00:18:14.990 --> 00:18:16.480
hearing from last month,

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00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:18.750
in this clip when she was questioned

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00:18:18.750 --> 00:18:20.220
by Senator Al Franken.

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00:18:21.360 --> 00:18:26.220
SEN. AL FRANKEN: I would like your views
on the relative advantage

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00:18:26.220 --> 00:18:29.430
of measuring—doing assessments

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00:18:29.430 --> 00:18:31.640
and using them
to measure proficiency

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00:18:31.640 --> 00:18:33.100
or to measure growth.

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00:18:34.060 --> 00:18:35.710
BETSY DEVOS: Thank you, Senator,
for that question.

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00:18:36.280 --> 00:18:38.390
I think if I’m understanding
your question

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00:18:38.390 --> 00:18:40.370
correctly around proficiency,

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00:18:40.370 --> 00:18:44.780
I would—I would also correlate it
to competency and mastery,

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00:18:44.780 --> 00:18:46.980
so that you—each student

435
00:18:46.980 --> 00:18:50.160
is measured according
to the advancement

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00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:52.360
that they’re making
in each subject area.

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00:18:52.360 --> 00:18:55.420
SEN. AL FRANKEN: Well, that’s growth.
That’s not proficiency.

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00:18:55.420 --> 00:18:58.110
So, in other words, the growth
they’re making is in growth.

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00:18:58.110 --> 00:18:59.830
The proficiency is—

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00:18:59.830 --> 00:19:01.390
BETSY DEVOS: If they’ve reached—
SEN. AL FRANKEN: —an arbitrary standard.

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00:19:01.390 --> 00:19:03.550
BETSY DEVOS: If they’ve reached
a level—the proficiency

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00:19:03.550 --> 00:19:07.380
is if they’ve reached
a like third grade level

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00:19:07.380 --> 00:19:09.280
for reading, etc.

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00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:12.100
SEN. AL FRANKEN: No,
I’m talking about the debate

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00:19:12.100 --> 00:19:14.070
between proficiency and growth—
BETSY DEVOS: Yes.

446
00:19:14.070 --> 00:19:15.290
SEN. AL FRANKEN: —and what
your thoughts are on them.

447
00:19:15.860 --> 00:19:19.750
BETSY DEVOS: Well, I was just
asking to clarify then—

448
00:19:19.750 --> 00:19:23.980
SEN. AL FRANKEN: Well, this is—this
is a subject that has been debated

449
00:19:23.980 --> 00:19:26.170
in the education community
for years.

450
00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:30.220
NERMEEN SHAIKH: That’s Al Franken
questioning education

451
00:19:30.220 --> 00:19:34.010
secretary designate
Betsy DeVos last month

452
00:19:34.010 --> 00:19:35.940
during her confirmation hearing.

453
00:19:35.940 --> 00:19:39.640
Ryan Grim, can you comment
on what her response

454
00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:41.770
was to the questions

455
00:19:41.770 --> 00:19:43.760
that Franken was asking her?

456
00:19:44.520 --> 00:19:46.710
RYAN GRIM: It was kind of
a flabbergasting response,

457
00:19:46.710 --> 00:19:50.230
because this debate between
growth and proficiency,

458
00:19:50.230 --> 00:19:53.220
there are—I think that there
are people of good faith

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00:19:53.220 --> 00:19:56.490
on each side of the debate
within education policy,

460
00:19:56.490 --> 00:19:59.120
but in the era
of school assessments,

461
00:19:59.120 --> 00:20:00.560
it is one

462
00:20:00.560 --> 00:20:03.700
of the fundamental debates
in education policy.

463
00:20:03.700 --> 00:20:05.420
This is it, you know,
like where you stand on

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00:20:05.420 --> 00:20:07.280
whether you should be measuring
the growth of a student

465
00:20:07.280 --> 00:20:10.310
or whether you should be measuring
kind of a flat proficiency

466
00:20:10.310 --> 00:20:11.530
at a grade
level—you know,

467
00:20:11.530 --> 00:20:13.200
where you stand
on that kind of defines

468
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:15.510
your view
on education policy today.

469
00:20:15.510 --> 00:20:17.980
And what her answer suggested,

470
00:20:17.980 --> 00:20:19.220
quite clearly,

471
00:20:19.220 --> 00:20:21.060
is that she hasn’t thought
about this debate,

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00:20:21.060 --> 00:20:23.100
she’s unfamiliar
with this debate.

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00:20:23.100 --> 00:20:24.730
And so, while a lot of people talk

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00:20:24.730 --> 00:20:27.710
about a level of malevolence
within the Trump administration,

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00:20:27.710 --> 00:20:29.380
you also have
an extraordinary amount

476
00:20:29.380 --> 00:20:31.320
of incompetence and ignorance.

477
00:20:31.320 --> 00:20:34.000
You know, to have
an education secretary

478
00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:38.160
who literally doesn’t know
about the primary issue—not

479
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:40.240
that she’s wrong
on the issue necessarily,

480
00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:44.360
but she doesn’t even know what it
is—is an extraordinary thing.

481
00:20:44.360 --> 00:20:48.030
And it flows into
putting Ben Carson

482
00:20:48.030 --> 00:20:50.520
at the top of Housing
and Urban Development,

483
00:20:50.520 --> 00:20:53.710
who has absolutely no experience
in housing policy

484
00:20:53.710 --> 00:20:56.170
whatsoever and has himself said

485
00:20:56.170 --> 00:20:58.520
that he’s unqualified
for a Cabinet position.

486
00:20:58.520 --> 00:21:01.170
So, you know, we’re in
extraordinary territory.

487
00:21:01.170 --> 00:21:04.760
And so, when Democrats are
taking a stand in opposition

488
00:21:04.760 --> 00:21:07.770
to a lot of these candidates
because the base is pushing them there,

489
00:21:07.770 --> 00:21:10.560
when they finally get there,
they see that, well,

490
00:21:10.560 --> 00:21:13.100
this actually is intellectually
the right position, too.

491
00:21:13.100 --> 00:21:14.750
AMY GOODMAN: And then, Ryan,
you have, on Wednesday,

492
00:21:14.750 --> 00:21:17.650
two Republican senators, both women,

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00:21:17.650 --> 00:21:20.220
announcing they will
not confirm DeVos

494
00:21:20.220 --> 00:21:21.790
as secretary
of education:

495
00:21:21.790 --> 00:21:23.730
Senator Susan Collins of Maine

496
00:21:23.730 --> 00:21:26.530
followed by Senator
Lisa Murkowski of Alaska.

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00:21:26.530 --> 00:21:27.700
RYAN GRIM: Right.
And Susan Collins hinted at—

498
00:21:27.700 --> 00:21:29.150
AMY GOODMAN: Let’s go to a clip of them.

499
00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:30.780
RYAN GRIM: Sure.

500
00:21:30.780 --> 00:21:34.390
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS: In keeping
with my past practice,

501
00:21:34.390 --> 00:21:38.600
I will vote today
to proceed to debate

502
00:21:38.600 --> 00:21:41.240
on Mrs. DeVos’s nomination.

503
00:21:42.040 --> 00:21:46.260
But, Madam President, I will not—I

504
00:21:46.260 --> 00:21:50.350
cannot—vote
to confirm her

505
00:21:50.350 --> 00:21:51.880
as our nation’s

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00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:54.680
next secretary
of education.

507
00:21:55.350 --> 00:22:00.410
SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI: I do not intend
to vote on final passage

508
00:22:00.410 --> 00:22:02.690
to support Mrs. DeVos

509
00:22:02.690 --> 00:22:04.680
to be secretary
of education.

510
00:22:05.210 --> 00:22:07.600
So I thank the chairman
of the committee.

511
00:22:08.100 --> 00:22:10.620
AMY GOODMAN: Senators Murkowski
and Collins.

512
00:22:10.620 --> 00:22:12.080
This is quite stunning.

513
00:22:12.080 --> 00:22:13.870
It’s also interesting
that they are women,

514
00:22:13.870 --> 00:22:16.290
women certainly in the minority
in the Senate.

515
00:22:16.290 --> 00:22:18.120
You also have
the women judges

516
00:22:19.150 --> 00:22:21.490
and the attorney general
who has gotten in Trump’s way

517
00:22:21.490 --> 00:22:23.350
when it comes to
the immigration ban,

518
00:22:23.350 --> 00:22:26.700
you know, blocking these bans,
saying that they won’t enforce them.

519
00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:30.520
But the significance of this
and then what this means?

520
00:22:30.520 --> 00:22:33.420
If Senator Sessions
were approved

521
00:22:33.420 --> 00:22:36.470
as attorney general
before this vote,

522
00:22:36.470 --> 00:22:38.990
he would not be able to vote,

523
00:22:38.990 --> 00:22:40.710
if he were confirmed,

524
00:22:41.570 --> 00:22:44.060
and this would mean
that DeVos would go down.

525
00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:48.030
But his confirmation has just been
voted out of the committee,

526
00:22:48.030 --> 00:22:50.940
and I’m sure they’ll wait
so that he can vote.

527
00:22:50.940 --> 00:22:52.800
That would then just make this 50-50,

528
00:22:52.800 --> 00:22:56.680
unless another Republican says no.
Is that right?

529
00:22:56.680 --> 00:22:58.050
RYAN GRIM: Yeah,
that’s exactly right.

530
00:22:58.050 --> 00:23:00.460
So it means they have
to keep Jeff Sessions

531
00:23:00.460 --> 00:23:03.010
in the Senate
as long as they possibly can

532
00:23:03.010 --> 00:23:05.380
so that he can be around
to vote for DeVos

533
00:23:05.380 --> 00:23:07.190
and any other other nominees

534
00:23:07.190 --> 00:23:10.190
that they feel like are going to be
right up against the edge,

535
00:23:10.190 --> 00:23:11.810
because as soon as he
becomes attorney general,

536
00:23:11.810 --> 00:23:13.000
he can no longer vote in the Senate.

537
00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:15.670
And I think there are a couple other
significant things about their vote.

538
00:23:15.670 --> 00:23:17.790
One is that while Alaska and Maine

539
00:23:17.790 --> 00:23:20.390
are rural states,
public education

540
00:23:20.390 --> 00:23:22.610
is still—is still
an important factor there.

541
00:23:22.610 --> 00:23:24.790
And, you know, not only teachers,

542
00:23:24.790 --> 00:23:26.080
but parents of children

543
00:23:26.080 --> 00:23:28.540
in public schools
are extremely motivated.

544
00:23:28.540 --> 00:23:31.730
And Collins hinted at this,
but Murkowski said it explicitly.

545
00:23:31.730 --> 00:23:35.020
She told me she got 30,000 calls
over this last week,

546
00:23:35.020 --> 00:23:37.230
almost all of them anti-DeVos.

547
00:23:37.230 --> 00:23:40.710
And she said that that
helped her decide to oppose her.

548
00:23:40.710 --> 00:23:45.080
So, you know, activism from within these
states did in fact move these people.

549
00:23:45.080 --> 00:23:47.420
Now, a Mitch McConnell spokesman told me

550
00:23:47.420 --> 00:23:48.930
that they still have the votes,

551
00:23:48.930 --> 00:23:52.290
and they’re confident
that she’s going to be confirmed.

552
00:23:52.290 --> 00:23:55.840
And Mitch McConnell is known for being
quite an extraordinary vote counter.

553
00:23:55.840 --> 00:23:59.870
So I would count on her,
at this point, being confirmed.

554
00:23:59.870 --> 00:24:01.810
But the level of hostility towards her—

555
00:24:01.810 --> 00:24:03.110
AMY GOODMAN: So, Pence,
though, would have to come—

556
00:24:03.110 --> 00:24:03.350
RYAN GRIM: Exactly.

557
00:24:03.350 --> 00:24:04.980
AMY GOODMAN: Vice President Pence
would have to come,

558
00:24:04.980 --> 00:24:06.340
the first time ever—
RYAN GRIM: Right, right.

559
00:24:06.340 --> 00:24:08.470
AMY GOODMAN: —for a confirmation
of a Cabinet pick.

560
00:24:08.470 --> 00:24:09.730
RYAN GRIM: Right, exactly.

561
00:24:09.730 --> 00:24:11.500
And that would be—like you said,

562
00:24:11.500 --> 00:24:14.230
that’s a historical moment
to have an education

563
00:24:14.230 --> 00:24:16.750
secretary that is
so controversial that,

564
00:24:16.750 --> 00:24:18.210
even though you have
a Senate majority,

565
00:24:18.210 --> 00:24:21.160
you need your own vice president
to push her over the top.

566
00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:23.370
AMY GOODMAN: And now you
have Rex Tillerson,

567
00:24:23.370 --> 00:24:24.940
the new secretary of state,

568
00:24:24.940 --> 00:24:27.980
immediately jumping into the fray,

569
00:24:27.980 --> 00:24:31.720
has to deal with
the travel ban and Iran.

570
00:24:31.720 --> 00:24:34.280
Now, Iran, he’s very familiar with,

571
00:24:34.990 --> 00:24:37.190
in dealing with Iran around
the cruise missile

572
00:24:37.190 --> 00:24:40.380
that they just—that they just tested,

573
00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:43.420
because he was the longtime CEO

574
00:24:43.420 --> 00:24:44.580
of ExxonMobil—
RYAN GRIM: Right.

575
00:24:44.580 --> 00:24:47.940
AMY GOODMAN: —and actually had
some secret negotiations with Iran.

576
00:24:47.940 --> 00:24:49.350
RYAN GRIM: Right, right.
And this is going to be

577
00:24:49.350 --> 00:24:52.410
extraordinarily difficult politics

578
00:24:52.410 --> 00:24:53.690
for somebody like Rex Tillerson,

579
00:24:53.690 --> 00:24:55.000
because, you know,

580
00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:57.060
he is quite friendly
with Vladimir

581
00:24:57.060 --> 00:25:00.270
Putin and with Russia,
as is Donald Trump.

582
00:25:00.270 --> 00:25:04.100
Russia is the—you know,
Iran is the client of Russia.

583
00:25:04.100 --> 00:25:07.990
So, it’s not even clear that Trump
knows that he is,

584
00:25:07.990 --> 00:25:11.270
on the one hand, picking a fight
with the client and, on the other hand,

585
00:25:12.530 --> 00:25:14.080
cozying up to the boss state,

586
00:25:14.080 --> 00:25:16.420
at the same time
that he’s picking a fight

587
00:25:16.420 --> 00:25:18.390
with Australia’s prime minister,

588
00:25:18.390 --> 00:25:19.610
hanging up the phone on him,

589
00:25:19.610 --> 00:25:22.580
and threatening to send
troops into Mexico.

590
00:25:22.580 --> 00:25:25.310
This is literally just
in the last 24 hours.

591
00:25:27.510 --> 00:25:29.760
NERMEEN SHAIKH: So, on Wednesday,
President Trump urged

592
00:25:29.760 --> 00:25:31.030
the Republican leadership

593
00:25:31.030 --> 00:25:33.930
to consider using the so-called
nuclear option—that is,

594
00:25:33.930 --> 00:25:37.070
instituting a rule change
to prohibit filibusters—

595
00:25:37.070 --> 00:25:38.670
to push through the confirmation

596
00:25:38.670 --> 00:25:41.250
of Supreme Court nominee Neil Gorsuch.

597
00:25:41.900 --> 00:25:43.270
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: 
But if we end up with that gridlock,

598
00:25:43.270 --> 00:25:46.410
I would say,
"If you can, Mitch, go nuclear,"

599
00:25:47.030 --> 00:25:50.730
because that would be a absolute shame

600
00:25:50.730 --> 00:25:53.010
if a man of this quality

601
00:25:53.010 --> 00:25:54.410
was caught up in the web.

602
00:25:55.020 --> 00:25:57.060
So I would say—it’s up to Mitch,

603
00:25:57.060 --> 00:25:58.990
but I would say, "Go for it."

604
00:25:59.490 --> 00:26:01.530
NERMEEN SHAIKH: So, Ryan Grim,
that’s Trump

605
00:26:01.530 --> 00:26:03.960
saying to go for the nuclear option.

606
00:26:05.110 --> 00:26:07.980
RYAN GRIM: My read on this
is that Republicans

607
00:26:07.980 --> 00:26:11.690
will end up getting enough Democrats
to support this nominee

608
00:26:11.690 --> 00:26:15.370
so that they’ll get 60 votes
and won’t actually go nuclear.

609
00:26:15.370 --> 00:26:17.210
I think that there’s
100 percent—close

610
00:26:17.210 --> 00:26:18.590
to 100 percent certainty

611
00:26:18.590 --> 00:26:20.720
that if they don’t get to the 60 votes,

612
00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:22.730
they would go nuclear on this.

613
00:26:22.730 --> 00:26:24.360
But I think the further significance

614
00:26:24.360 --> 00:26:27.690
of this is that if Donald Trump

615
00:26:27.690 --> 00:26:30.700
is pushing some
legislative agenda in the future,

616
00:26:30.700 --> 00:26:31.900
that—not a Supreme Court nominee,

617
00:26:31.900 --> 00:26:33.930
but just a legislative agenda

618
00:26:33.930 --> 00:26:35.560
—and Democrats
are filibustering it,

619
00:26:35.560 --> 00:26:38.350
you’re going to see him pushing
for the nuclear option

620
00:26:38.350 --> 00:26:39.640
on legislation, too.

621
00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:42.740
You know, Donald Trump is not
somebody who’s going to say,

622
00:26:42.740 --> 00:26:45.190
"Oh, well, my agenda can’t get through
because of, you know,

623
00:26:45.190 --> 00:26:47.830
the established norms
of our democratic society.

624
00:26:47.830 --> 00:26:50.300
Well, then, oh, well,
that’s too bad. I lost."

625
00:26:50.300 --> 00:26:51.590
He’s somebody who’s going to say,

626
00:26:51.590 --> 00:26:54.690
"No, we need to change those rules
and push that through."

627
00:26:54.690 --> 00:26:57.280
So I think you certainly
haven’t seen the last of that.

628
00:26:57.280 --> 00:26:59.790
But you’re going to see, I think,
Mitch McConnell push back.

629
00:26:59.790 --> 00:27:03.300
He doesn’t necessarily want
the 60-vote threshold to come down,

630
00:27:03.300 --> 00:27:05.160
because, kind of paradoxically,

631
00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:08.210
he loses power relative
to Donald Trump then,

632
00:27:08.210 --> 00:27:10.330
because if Mitch McConnell
can tell Donald Trump,

633
00:27:10.330 --> 00:27:13.160
"Look, I would love to do
your infrastructure project,

634
00:27:13.160 --> 00:27:14.880
but I just don’t have 60 votes,"

635
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:16.870
then there isn’t a whole lot
Donald Trump can do

636
00:27:16.870 --> 00:27:19.950
except push on Twitter and in speeches

637
00:27:19.950 --> 00:27:21.940
and in rallies for the nuclear option.

638
00:27:21.940 --> 00:27:24.400
So, but that has the capacity

639
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:26.290
then to tear
the Republican Party apart

640
00:27:26.290 --> 00:27:27.720
heading into 2018.

641
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:30.890
So, you know, who knows where
this element of it is going?

642
00:27:30.890 --> 00:27:32.490
AMY GOODMAN: It’s pretty
terrifying watching TV.

643
00:27:32.490 --> 00:27:35.270
You see the—Iran’s missile going off,

644
00:27:35.270 --> 00:27:36.970
and then you see "nuclear option"

645
00:27:36.970 --> 00:27:38.750
flashing across the screen,
back and forth.

646
00:27:38.750 --> 00:27:39.210
RYAN GRIM: Yes, yes. Maybe we need—

647
00:27:39.210 --> 00:27:41.220
AMY GOODMAN: Of course,
the nuclear option is not to do,

648
00:27:41.220 --> 00:27:43.050
at least at this point, with Iran.

649
00:27:43.050 --> 00:27:44.410
RYAN GRIM: Right.
Yeah, maybe we need a new phrase

650
00:27:44.410 --> 00:27:46.380
for what’s happening in the Senate,
since "nuclear option"

651
00:27:46.380 --> 00:27:48.770
is becoming, you know,
literal rather than metaphorical.

652
00:27:48.770 --> 00:27:50.500
AMY GOODMAN: And then you have
Rex Tillerson

653
00:27:50.500 --> 00:27:52.510
facing a thousand diplomats

654
00:27:52.510 --> 00:27:54.450
and others within the State Department

655
00:27:54.450 --> 00:27:57.290
signing on against the travel ban.

656
00:27:57.290 --> 00:27:59.650
And we’re going to end on that,
with just 30 seconds, Ryan.

657
00:28:00.490 --> 00:28:02.650
RYAN GRIM: Sure.
I mean, Rex Tillerson,

658
00:28:02.650 --> 00:28:04.790
I don’t think, you know,
six months ago,

659
00:28:04.790 --> 00:28:06.360
thought there was any possibility

660
00:28:06.360 --> 00:28:09.460
that he was going to be
secretary of state of the United States.

661
00:28:09.460 --> 00:28:11.290
And now, like you said,

662
00:28:11.290 --> 00:28:13.940
he has the entire world against him.

663
00:28:13.940 --> 00:28:15.890
But that’s kind of a familiar position

664
00:28:15.890 --> 00:28:17.930
for an Exxon CEO,

665
00:28:17.930 --> 00:28:20.130
and they’ve managed
to thrive despite that.

666
00:28:20.130 --> 00:28:21.840
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Ryan Grim,
we thank you so much

667
00:28:21.840 --> 00:28:23.280
for being with us, Washington, D.C.,

668
00:28:23.280 --> 00:28:25.070
bureau chief for The Huffington Post.

669
00:28:25.070 --> 00:28:27.440
We’ll link to your story,
"After Trying Everything Else,

670
00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:29.430
Democrats Have Decided
to Listen to Their Voters."

671
00:28:29.430 --> 00:28:32.520
This is Democracy Now!
When we come back, the travel ban.

672
00:28:32.520 --> 00:28:34.500
Stay with us.

673
00:29:32.780 --> 00:29:34.510
NERMEEN SHAIKH: New information
is emerging about

674
00:29:34.510 --> 00:29:37.650
U.S. State Department guidance issued
the day President Trump

675
00:29:37.650 --> 00:29:41.320
signed an executive order
temporarily banning all refugees,

676
00:29:41.320 --> 00:29:44.110
as well as all citizens
from seven Muslim-majority

677
00:29:44.110 --> 00:29:45.450
nations—Iran,

678
00:29:45.450 --> 00:29:47.410
Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan,

679
00:29:47.410 --> 00:29:50.660
Syria and Yemen—from
entering the United States.

680
00:29:50.660 --> 00:29:55.470
WBUR has acquired a department memo
dated January 27th

681
00:29:55.470 --> 00:29:58.660
that provisionally revokes
all nonimmigrant

682
00:29:58.660 --> 00:30:00.650
and immigrant visas of nationals

683
00:30:00.650 --> 00:30:03.990
from the seven countries as of Friday.

684
00:30:03.990 --> 00:30:05.820
According to the memo, the revocation

685
00:30:05.820 --> 00:30:08.290
does not apply to diplomatic visas.

686
00:30:08.290 --> 00:30:10.690
AMY GOODMAN: Well, for more,
we go to Seattle, Washington,

687
00:30:10.690 --> 00:30:11.950
where we’re joined by Matt Adams,

688
00:30:11.950 --> 00:30:14.210
legal director for the Northwest
Immigrant Rights Project,

689
00:30:14.210 --> 00:30:16.390
lead counsel for a class action lawsuit

690
00:30:16.390 --> 00:30:19.150
challenging Donald Trump’s
executive order.

691
00:30:19.150 --> 00:30:22.140
His lawsuit was filed
in Seattle on behalf

692
00:30:22.140 --> 00:30:24.320
of three parents
legally living in the U.S.

693
00:30:24.320 --> 00:30:26.570
who are now restricted
from bringing their children

694
00:30:26.570 --> 00:30:28.650
from Somalia, Syria and Yemen.

695
00:30:28.650 --> 00:30:30.030
Matt, welcome to Democracy Now!

696
00:30:30.030 --> 00:30:33.750
Tell us who your clients are
and what’s happened in the last week.

697
00:30:34.810 --> 00:30:37.570
MATT ADAMS: Thank you.
Our clients are three parents.

698
00:30:37.570 --> 00:30:41.420
One is—two of them
are United States citizens,

699
00:30:41.420 --> 00:30:43.670
and one of them is a lawful
permanent resident.

700
00:30:43.670 --> 00:30:46.520
And so we have, for example,
a Syrian mother,

701
00:30:46.520 --> 00:30:47.860
a lawful permanent resident,

702
00:30:47.860 --> 00:30:51.560
who lives here in Seattle
and has been separated from her child,

703
00:30:51.560 --> 00:30:52.940
a 16-year-old boy.

704
00:30:52.940 --> 00:30:55.480
She’s filed a visa petition.
It’s been approved.

705
00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:59.010
He is in desperate circumstances
in war-torn Syria.

706
00:30:59.010 --> 00:31:01.530
And now, after she
submitted her application

707
00:31:01.530 --> 00:31:04.210
with the consulate,
the president has issued this order,

708
00:31:04.210 --> 00:31:07.180
putting an indefinite hold
and separation

709
00:31:07.180 --> 00:31:09.810
between her and her child.
We have another.

710
00:31:09.810 --> 00:31:12.400
A mother and a father
are both United States citizens.

711
00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:16.020
They have two other daughters
who are here, also U.S. citizens,

712
00:31:16.020 --> 00:31:19.480
who are separated from
their 12-year-old daughter, who is not.

713
00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:21.680
Their application
had already been processed,

714
00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:23.290
had already been approved.

715
00:31:23.290 --> 00:31:26.330
The father went to pick up
his daughter, who’s from Yemen.

716
00:31:26.330 --> 00:31:27.600
They had to travel to Jordan.

717
00:31:27.600 --> 00:31:29.010
Yemen is so dangerous

718
00:31:29.010 --> 00:31:31.200
that our own U.S. Consulate
has pulled out of that.

719
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:32.970
So they had their interview in Jordan.

720
00:31:32.970 --> 00:31:35.300
It was approved.
They showed up at the airport.

721
00:31:35.300 --> 00:31:36.600
And when they arrived
at the airport,

722
00:31:36.600 --> 00:31:39.110
they were told the father, of course,
can get on the plane,

723
00:31:39.110 --> 00:31:40.410
because he’s a U.S. citizen,

724
00:31:40.410 --> 00:31:43.260
but the 12-year-old daughter
has to stay behind.

725
00:31:43.260 --> 00:31:45.710
And, of course,
what is the father to do?

726
00:31:45.710 --> 00:31:47.660
Right now, him and his daughter

727
00:31:47.660 --> 00:31:49.670
are left in
a desperate situation.

728
00:31:49.670 --> 00:31:51.000
He doesn’t know
what he can do.

729
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:52.260
He can’t send her back

730
00:31:52.260 --> 00:31:54.670
to the danger
that exists in Yemen.

731
00:31:54.670 --> 00:31:56.190
We have one other client,

732
00:31:56.190 --> 00:31:58.690
a mother who is, again, a U.S. citizen,

733
00:31:58.690 --> 00:32:02.380
and her 6-year-old daughter
is left in Somalia.

734
00:32:02.380 --> 00:32:04.540
And again,
an application

735
00:32:04.540 --> 00:32:07.090
has—a visa petition
has already been approved.

736
00:32:07.090 --> 00:32:09.560
The application went forward
with the consulate.

737
00:32:09.560 --> 00:32:11.520
And now President Trump
has said, no,

738
00:32:11.520 --> 00:32:14.760
these children are a threat
to our national security,

739
00:32:14.760 --> 00:32:18.300
because they come from
predominantly Muslim countries

740
00:32:18.300 --> 00:32:19.650
that have been targeted.

741
00:32:19.650 --> 00:32:21.760
And a hold has been
placed on them

742
00:32:21.760 --> 00:32:23.070
and hundreds of others

743
00:32:23.070 --> 00:32:24.630
who are like them,
who’ve reached out to us.

744
00:32:24.630 --> 00:32:27.460
And so, these individuals
are bringing a lawsuit

745
00:32:27.460 --> 00:32:28.960
not just on behalf
of themselves,

746
00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:31.190
but others who are
similarly situated.

747
00:32:31.190 --> 00:32:32.740
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Matt Adams,
can you just tell us

748
00:32:32.740 --> 00:32:34.820
what is the status
of your lawsuit now?

749
00:32:34.820 --> 00:32:36.150
What are you arguing?

750
00:32:37.410 --> 00:32:40.600
MATT ADAMS: We are arguing
that this executive order

751
00:32:40.600 --> 00:32:44.800
blatantly violates not only
the United States Constitution

752
00:32:44.800 --> 00:32:47.680
and its guarantee
of equal protection

753
00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:49.050
for all under the law

754
00:32:49.050 --> 00:32:54.290
and its guarantee
of due process for all,

755
00:32:54.290 --> 00:32:57.290
but it violates the Immigration
and Nationality Act,

756
00:32:57.290 --> 00:33:01.080
which explicitly states
that visas will be issued

757
00:33:01.080 --> 00:33:04.750
without discriminating
based on national origin

758
00:33:04.750 --> 00:33:06.030
or country of birth.

759
00:33:06.030 --> 00:33:09.430
And yet that’s precisely
what Trump has done

760
00:33:09.430 --> 00:33:10.840
with his executive order,

761
00:33:10.840 --> 00:33:12.930
is said, "I’m going
to target these individuals

762
00:33:12.930 --> 00:33:15.000
because they come
from a country,

763
00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:18.180
not because of anything to do
with them individually."

764
00:33:18.180 --> 00:33:20.960
And, in fact, it’s absurd
on its face, if you look at it and say,

765
00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:22.530
"How in the world can he be

766
00:33:22.530 --> 00:33:24.890
trying to tie this
to national security,

767
00:33:24.890 --> 00:33:27.030
when he’s barring children

768
00:33:27.030 --> 00:33:30.110
from coming in to be reunited
with their parents,

769
00:33:30.110 --> 00:33:32.030
their parents who are
already living here,

770
00:33:32.030 --> 00:33:34.030
their parents who are
United States citizens

771
00:33:34.030 --> 00:33:35.510
and lawful permanent residents?"

772
00:33:36.010 --> 00:33:38.060
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Matt Adams,
we want to thank you for being with us.

773
00:33:38.060 --> 00:33:41.190
We hope to have you on
in the coming days with your clients.

774
00:33:41.190 --> 00:33:42.500
Matt Adams is legal director

775
00:33:42.500 --> 00:33:44.450
for the Northwest Immigrant
Rights Project,

776
00:33:44.450 --> 00:33:46.930
lead counsel for the class
action lawsuit

777
00:33:46.930 --> 00:33:49.810
challenging Donald Trump’s
executive order,

778
00:33:49.810 --> 00:33:51.760
his lawsuit filed in Seattle on behalf

779
00:33:51.760 --> 00:33:54.040
of three parents
legally living in the U.S.

780
00:33:54.040 --> 00:33:56.390
who are now restricted
from bringing their kids

781
00:33:56.390 --> 00:33:58.620
from Somalia,
Syria and Yemen.

782
00:33:59.140 --> 00:34:00.460
This is Democracy Now!,

783
00:34:00.460 --> 00:34:02.780
democracynow.org,
The War and Peace Report.

784
00:34:02.780 --> 00:34:04.850
I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.

785
00:34:04.850 --> 00:34:07.260
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Prominent white
supremacist and Donald Trump

786
00:34:07.260 --> 00:34:08.800
supporter Richard Spencer

787
00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:10.580
has been back in the news this week

788
00:34:10.580 --> 00:34:11.990
after he praised Trump

789
00:34:11.990 --> 00:34:14.160
for not mentioning
the 6 million Jews

790
00:34:14.160 --> 00:34:15.740
killed in a statement

791
00:34:15.740 --> 00:34:18.810
commemorating International
Holocaust Memorial Day.

792
00:34:18.810 --> 00:34:22.100
Trump has faced widespread
criticism for the omission,

793
00:34:22.100 --> 00:34:23.890
but the administration
has repeatedly

794
00:34:23.890 --> 00:34:25.140
defended the statement.

795
00:34:25.140 --> 00:34:27.830
Senator Tim Kaine went
as far as calling it

796
00:34:27.830 --> 00:34:29.770
a form of "Holocaust denial."

797
00:34:29.770 --> 00:34:32.230
Spencer, however,
praised the statement

798
00:34:32.230 --> 00:34:35.640
as the "de-Judification"
of the Holocaust.

799
00:34:35.640 --> 00:34:37.320
AMY GOODMAN: Earlier this week,
Juan González

800
00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:38.790
and I spoke to Andrea Pitzer.

801
00:34:38.790 --> 00:34:41.970
Her upcoming book is titled
One Long Night:

802
00:34:41.970 --> 00:34:44.470
A Global History
of Concentration Camps.

803
00:34:44.470 --> 00:34:46.340
It looks at mass
civilian detention

804
00:34:46.340 --> 00:34:48.850
without trial from 1896 to today.

805
00:34:48.850 --> 00:34:52.860
Andrea Pitzer began by
commenting on Trump’s statement.

806
00:34:53.380 --> 00:34:54.640
ANDREA PITZER: One thing I think
is very interesting

807
00:34:54.640 --> 00:34:55.970
about the omission of the Jews

808
00:34:55.970 --> 00:34:59.190
in the Holocaust Remembrance
Day statement is—again,

809
00:34:59.190 --> 00:35:00.550
looking back at the history—that

810
00:35:02.240 --> 00:35:05.460
it’s perhaps a mistake
that that was done at first.

811
00:35:05.460 --> 00:35:06.970
It may have been an omission.

812
00:35:06.970 --> 00:35:08.310
It’s a very strange omission,

813
00:35:08.310 --> 00:35:10.730
given all the concerns
that were raised about

814
00:35:10.730 --> 00:35:13.120
whether Trump had the support
of white nationalists

815
00:35:13.120 --> 00:35:16.170
and whether that was reciprocated
during the campaign,

816
00:35:17.020 --> 00:35:18.330
to have forgotten that,

817
00:35:18.330 --> 00:35:20.720
when it would have been
an easy thing to do correctly.

818
00:35:20.720 --> 00:35:22.720
But even if one gives them
the benefit of a doubt

819
00:35:22.720 --> 00:35:24.680
that it was an error,
when it was pointed out,

820
00:35:24.680 --> 00:35:26.050
it was doubled down on,

821
00:35:26.050 --> 00:35:27.890
and there was this strange statement

822
00:35:27.890 --> 00:35:30.460
that it was actually
meant to be inclusive,

823
00:35:30.460 --> 00:35:31.950
it was including all groups.

824
00:35:31.950 --> 00:35:35.310
And I think that’s more
where it becomes disturbing,

825
00:35:35.310 --> 00:35:36.880
because this is
one of the lines

826
00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:38.760
that we’ve seen
in Soviet Russia

827
00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:41.270
and in some white
nationalist sectors,

828
00:35:41.270 --> 00:35:42.900
that, "Well, sure," they say,

829
00:35:42.900 --> 00:35:44.760
"a lot of people died in the war,"

830
00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:47.910
as if it were just
an inevitable casualty of war.

831
00:35:47.910 --> 00:35:49.720
And certainly,
tens of millions of people

832
00:35:49.720 --> 00:35:51.030
were casualties of combat

833
00:35:51.030 --> 00:35:53.740
and other crises during the war,

834
00:35:53.740 --> 00:35:55.350
as there are in many wars,

835
00:35:55.350 --> 00:35:58.600
but it’s really
a singular moment,

836
00:35:58.600 --> 00:36:01.000
the attempt to eradicate a people

837
00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:02.610
from the face of the Earth.

838
00:36:02.610 --> 00:36:04.800
And it was also the Jews,

839
00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:06.490
but—especially the Jews,

840
00:36:06.490 --> 00:36:09.770
but also the Roma and Sinti,
the Gypsies, as they also were known.

841
00:36:09.770 --> 00:36:13.270
And this was really—to bend
the power of a state

842
00:36:13.270 --> 00:36:16.130
during wartime to eradicate people
from the face of the Earth,

843
00:36:16.130 --> 00:36:18.140
even when it went against
your war interests,

844
00:36:18.730 --> 00:36:20.740
is just—is a really
singular thing.

845
00:36:20.740 --> 00:36:22.620
And I think to talk
about the Holocaust

846
00:36:22.620 --> 00:36:25.960
without acknowledging that
is really to miss

847
00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:27.180
its singular moment in history.

848
00:36:27.180 --> 00:36:28.900
AMY GOODMAN: So, Andrea Pitzer,
I wanted to go

849
00:36:28.900 --> 00:36:30.750
to what the White House
press secretary,

850
00:36:30.750 --> 00:36:33.970
Sean Spicer, said,
defending the decision

851
00:36:33.970 --> 00:36:37.330
not to reference Jews
in Trump’s statement

852
00:36:37.330 --> 00:36:39.670
on International
Holocaust Remembrance Day.

853
00:36:39.670 --> 00:36:41.780
PRESS SECRETARY SEAN SPICER: 
I think he’s aware

854
00:36:41.780 --> 00:36:43.830
of the—what people
have been saying.

855
00:36:43.830 --> 00:36:46.050
But I think, by and large,
he’s been praised for it.

856
00:36:46.050 --> 00:36:49.340
I think the president recognized
the tremendous loss of life

857
00:36:49.340 --> 00:36:50.820
that came from the Holocaust.

858
00:36:50.820 --> 00:36:52.360
But I think, with respect to,

859
00:36:53.160 --> 00:36:55.660
you know, Israel and
the Jewish people specifically,

860
00:36:56.360 --> 00:36:58.770
there’s been no better
friend than Donald Trump

861
00:36:58.770 --> 00:37:00.930
when it comes to protecting Israel,

862
00:37:00.930 --> 00:37:02.490
building a better
friendship with Israel.

863
00:37:03.010 --> 00:37:05.810
You look at what Prime Minister
Netanyahu has talked about.

864
00:37:05.810 --> 00:37:07.840
He welcomes this administration.

865
00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:10.580
He appreciates the friendship
and respect

866
00:37:10.580 --> 00:37:13.060
that he has shown to Israel
and to the Jewish people.

867
00:37:13.560 --> 00:37:17.230
But to suggest otherwise, John,
I, frankly—I got to be honest.

868
00:37:17.230 --> 00:37:18.660
I mean, the president
went out of his way

869
00:37:18.660 --> 00:37:20.770
to recognize the Holocaust

870
00:37:20.770 --> 00:37:23.690
and the suffering that went through it
and the people that were affected by it

871
00:37:23.690 --> 00:37:25.230
and the loss of life

872
00:37:25.230 --> 00:37:27.600
and to make sure
that America never forgets

873
00:37:27.600 --> 00:37:29.980
what so many people went through,

874
00:37:29.980 --> 00:37:32.830
whether they were Jews
or Gypsies, gays, disability,

875
00:37:32.830 --> 00:37:34.950
I mean, priests.

876
00:37:34.950 --> 00:37:37.480
AMY GOODMAN: So, that was Sean Spicer,

877
00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:39.780
who is the White House
press secretary,

878
00:37:39.780 --> 00:37:46.210
defending not referring
specifically to Jews on

879
00:37:46.210 --> 00:37:47.920
Holocaust Remembrance Day.

880
00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:50.100
Andrea Pitzer?

881
00:37:50.100 --> 00:37:51.900
ANDREA PITZER: Well, one thing
that’s interesting about that

882
00:37:51.900 --> 00:37:53.440
is that he said
he went out of his way.

883
00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:54.740
Well, I don’t think he really
went out of his way.

884
00:37:54.740 --> 00:37:57.360
Presidents have been issuing
these proclamations before,

885
00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:00.360
so it’s not some new
effort that was made.

886
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:01.770
And the second thing is,

887
00:38:01.770 --> 00:38:05.570
I think that it—the language
that was used,

888
00:38:05.570 --> 00:38:07.820
and it was something
very close to

889
00:38:07.820 --> 00:38:11.470
"to ensure that the forces
of evil never again

890
00:38:11.470 --> 00:38:13.800
defeat the powers of good."

891
00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:15.800
And that goes back to what
I was saying before,

892
00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:17.640
this idea of stripping
out context and history.

893
00:38:17.640 --> 00:38:19.740
That sounds like something
from Harry Potter.

894
00:38:19.740 --> 00:38:22.860
That sounds like some
apocalyptic fairy tale.

895
00:38:22.860 --> 00:38:27.520
The Holocaust and World War II
were very specific events.

896
00:38:27.520 --> 00:38:29.310
And I think to sort of neuter them down

897
00:38:29.310 --> 00:38:30.860
to these narratives
of just simple good

898
00:38:30.860 --> 00:38:33.130
and evil that can be carried around

899
00:38:33.130 --> 00:38:37.170
and used for other purposes goes
to the same kind of trend

900
00:38:37.170 --> 00:38:38.960
that the treatment
of immigrants does,

901
00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:41.420
which, you know,
it really doesn’t look

902
00:38:41.420 --> 00:38:43.350
at the exact context

903
00:38:43.350 --> 00:38:45.560
that we’re in and help us
make good judgments about it.

904
00:38:45.560 --> 00:38:48.580
It renders it down to something
that could be used for propaganda.

905
00:38:48.580 --> 00:38:50.960
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: At the Holocaust
Museum in Washington,

906
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:53.090
there is a—one of the signs

907
00:38:53.090 --> 00:38:55.210
that’s up there is a placard that says

908
00:38:55.210 --> 00:38:58.110
"Early warning signs of fascism,"

909
00:38:58.110 --> 00:39:01.290
and it has a list
that includes powerful

910
00:39:01.290 --> 00:39:03.150
and continuing nationalism,

911
00:39:03.150 --> 00:39:05.270
disdain for human rights,

912
00:39:05.270 --> 00:39:08.360
identification of enemies
as a unifying cause,

913
00:39:08.360 --> 00:39:11.700
supremacy of the military,
rampant sexism,

914
00:39:11.700 --> 00:39:13.440
controlled mass media,

915
00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:15.600
obsession with national security,

916
00:39:16.540 --> 00:39:19.680
corporate power protected,
labor power suppressed,

917
00:39:19.680 --> 00:39:22.050
disdain for intellectuals and the arts,

918
00:39:22.050 --> 00:39:24.260
obsession with crime
and punishment.

919
00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:28.770
Your thoughts as—this list
of the early signs

920
00:39:28.770 --> 00:39:30.520
of fascism at the Holocaust Museum?

921
00:39:30.520 --> 00:39:32.990
ANDREA PITZER: Well, I think
the list speaks for itself.

922
00:39:33.570 --> 00:39:35.290
At this point,

923
00:39:35.290 --> 00:39:36.750
given the blitz
that’s been run

924
00:39:36.750 --> 00:39:39.920
on the normal democratic process
by the administration,

925
00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:42.630
that’s just been in for a week
and a half at this point,

926
00:39:42.630 --> 00:39:45.420
I do think that we have to say that,

927
00:39:45.420 --> 00:39:46.740
even now that he’s in power,

928
00:39:46.740 --> 00:39:48.310
the authoritarian tendencies

929
00:39:48.310 --> 00:39:50.120
that Trump showed
before the election

930
00:39:50.120 --> 00:39:51.660
are definitely
coming into play.

931
00:39:51.660 --> 00:39:53.660
I think it’s important
to remember, however,

932
00:39:53.660 --> 00:39:56.920
that the U.S. is not Nazi
Germany in the 1930s.

933
00:39:56.920 --> 00:40:00.050
Journalists can report.
Lawyers can litigate.

934
00:40:00.590 --> 00:40:02.500
Individuals can run
for local office

935
00:40:02.500 --> 00:40:04.110
and call their
representatives and protest.

936
00:40:04.110 --> 00:40:08.360
So, whether Trump is
actually an authoritarian,

937
00:40:08.360 --> 00:40:10.610
he’s not in an authoritarian
state at this point.

938
00:40:10.610 --> 00:40:12.850
So I think there needs
to be a lot of concern,

939
00:40:12.850 --> 00:40:16.540
but I do think that there doesn’t need
to be panic at this point.

940
00:40:16.540 --> 00:40:18.380
It needs to be a kind
of strategic awareness

941
00:40:18.380 --> 00:40:20.100
and consideration
of what our options

942
00:40:20.100 --> 00:40:21.850
are as journalists, lawyers,

943
00:40:21.850 --> 00:40:23.840
as individuals and citizens.

944
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:27.150
AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about
what President Trump

945
00:40:27.150 --> 00:40:29.850
has said he’s going to do:

946
00:40:29.850 --> 00:40:33.400
keep a list of, quote,
"immigrant crimes"?

947
00:40:34.530 --> 00:40:36.050
ANDREA PITZER: Well, this weekly

948
00:40:36.050 --> 00:40:39.320
report that he has called for recalls

949
00:40:39.320 --> 00:40:41.180
a number of things
from the past

950
00:40:41.180 --> 00:40:43.060
that we have seen before,

951
00:40:43.060 --> 00:40:47.640
which is this move
to isolate and identify

952
00:40:47.640 --> 00:40:50.440
and then vilify
a vulnerable minority community

953
00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:52.710
in order to move against it.

954
00:40:52.710 --> 00:40:54.120
When he—I just
went back last night

955
00:40:54.120 --> 00:40:57.910
and reread his speech from when
he declared his candidacy,

956
00:40:57.910 --> 00:41:00.820
and the Mexican rapist comment
was in from the beginning,

957
00:41:00.820 --> 00:41:03.560
and so this has been
a theme throughout.

958
00:41:03.560 --> 00:41:05.960
And we see back in Nazi

959
00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:07.960
Germany there was a paper

960
00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:10.290
called—a Nazi paper
called Der Stürmer,

961
00:41:10.290 --> 00:41:12.800
and they had a department
called "Letter Box,"

962
00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:15.520
and readers were invited
to send in stories

963
00:41:15.520 --> 00:41:17.670
of supposed Jewish crimes.

964
00:41:17.670 --> 00:41:19.550
And Der Stürmer would publish them,

965
00:41:19.550 --> 00:41:21.310
and they would include

966
00:41:21.310 --> 00:41:23.210
some pretty horrific graphic

967
00:41:23.210 --> 00:41:25.470
illustrations of these crimes, as well.

968
00:41:25.470 --> 00:41:28.850
And there was even a sort of
a lite version of it,

969
00:41:28.850 --> 00:41:30.840
if you will, racism lite,

970
00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:33.790
in which the Neues Volk,

971
00:41:33.790 --> 00:41:37.170
which was more like
a Look or a Life magazine,

972
00:41:37.170 --> 00:41:39.570
which normally highlighted
beautiful Aryan families

973
00:41:39.570 --> 00:41:41.070
and their beautiful homes,

974
00:41:41.070 --> 00:41:44.980
would run a feature
like "The Criminal Jew,"

975
00:41:44.980 --> 00:41:48.500
and they would show photos
of "Jewish-looking," as they called it,

976
00:41:48.500 --> 00:41:51.510
people who represented
different kinds of crimes

977
00:41:51.510 --> 00:41:53.130
that one ought to watch
out for from Jews.

978
00:41:53.130 --> 00:41:56.010
So this preoccupation with focusing

979
00:41:56.010 --> 00:41:58.950
in on one subset
of the population’s crimes

980
00:41:58.950 --> 00:42:02.950
and then depicting that
as somehow depraved and abnormal

981
00:42:02.950 --> 00:42:04.510
from the main population

982
00:42:04.510 --> 00:42:06.410
is something we’ve seen
quite a bit in the past,

983
00:42:06.410 --> 00:42:10.590
even in the U.S. Before
Japanese-American internment,

984
00:42:10.590 --> 00:42:12.460
you had newspapers
like the San Francisco

985
00:42:12.460 --> 00:42:14.090
Chronicle running

986
00:42:14.090 --> 00:42:18.780
about the unassimilability
of the Japanese

987
00:42:18.780 --> 00:42:23.480
immigrants and also the crime tendencies
and depravities they had,

988
00:42:23.480 --> 00:42:25.110
which were distinguished

989
00:42:25.110 --> 00:42:26.940
from the main American population.

990
00:42:27.540 --> 00:42:28.780
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, of course,

991
00:42:28.780 --> 00:42:31.480
this flies in the face
of all studies

992
00:42:31.480 --> 00:42:35.420
that have shown that the crime rate

993
00:42:35.420 --> 00:42:38.080
among immigrant populations
in the United States

994
00:42:38.080 --> 00:42:39.620
is actually lower than it

995
00:42:39.620 --> 00:42:42.930
is among ordinary
American citizens,

996
00:42:43.490 --> 00:42:46.000
but yet this is attempting
to take isolated

997
00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:48.460
incidents or particular crimes

998
00:42:48.460 --> 00:42:52.170
and sort of raise them to the level
of a general trend, isn’t it?

999
00:42:52.970 --> 00:42:55.810
ANDREA PITZER: It is. And I think
it’s part of a disturbing narrative

1000
00:42:55.810 --> 00:42:58.820
in which you strip out
the broader context

1001
00:42:58.820 --> 00:43:03.000
and the specificity
of actions like this,

1002
00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:04.260
and you try to weave them

1003
00:43:04.260 --> 00:43:07.130
into this preset narrative

1004
00:43:07.130 --> 00:43:08.790
of good
and evil somehow,

1005
00:43:08.790 --> 00:43:12.540
that really ends up
being simple and dishonest

1006
00:43:12.540 --> 00:43:16.200
and very counterproductive
for the society as a whole.

1007
00:43:16.200 --> 00:43:19.820
But yes, in general, these groups
would want to keep a lower profile.

1008
00:43:19.820 --> 00:43:22.520
They would want to stay off
law enforcement’s radar.

1009
00:43:22.520 --> 00:43:24.960
And so, this is
one of the reasons

1010
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:27.720
that’s been suspected that
it’s actually a lower crime rate.

1011
00:43:27.720 --> 00:43:29.940
But if you get
a few dramatic

1012
00:43:29.940 --> 00:43:31.590
images—and don’t forget now,

1013
00:43:31.590 --> 00:43:33.100
this won’t be coming out—you know,

1014
00:43:33.100 --> 00:43:35.300
Breitbart has had this "black crimes"

1015
00:43:35.300 --> 00:43:38.320
tag that they’ve used to try to do
a similar thing in the past.

1016
00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:40.370
And now we have Bannon
in the White House.

1017
00:43:40.370 --> 00:43:42.070
And it’s sort of a scaling-up

1018
00:43:42.070 --> 00:43:44.360
and doing this with
a different minority group,

1019
00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:45.970
and you’ll have these,
what will no doubt be,

1020
00:43:45.970 --> 00:43:48.310
very dramatic narratives
that will come forward

1021
00:43:48.310 --> 00:43:50.350
that will eclipse
the larger picture.

1022
00:43:50.350 --> 00:43:53.260
And they’re going to have the imprimatur
of a government report,

1023
00:43:53.260 --> 00:43:55.330
which I think is another
disturbing aspect.

1024
00:43:55.330 --> 00:43:57.470
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask you,
Andrea Pitzer,

1025
00:43:57.470 --> 00:43:59.130
about the White House

1026
00:43:59.130 --> 00:44:02.540
considering a plan to make visitors
reveal cellphone,

1027
00:44:02.540 --> 00:44:03.900
internet data.

1028
00:44:03.900 --> 00:44:06.390
Describe the role mass surveillance

1029
00:44:06.390 --> 00:44:09.330
plays in authoritarian societies.

1030
00:44:09.330 --> 00:44:12.050
ANDREA PITZER: Well, over time,
we’ve seen that it’s very hard

1031
00:44:12.050 --> 00:44:15.640
to have an authoritarian
or a totalitarian society,

1032
00:44:15.640 --> 00:44:18.570
a state that runs,
without a secret police.

1033
00:44:18.570 --> 00:44:20.970
And you can’t—what you need
the secret police

1034
00:44:20.970 --> 00:44:24.250
for is to gather
information secretly.

1035
00:44:24.250 --> 00:44:27.170
The surveillance
techniques and abilities

1036
00:44:27.170 --> 00:44:30.590
that we have today are really
unparalleled in history.

1037
00:44:30.590 --> 00:44:33.000
And while we can’t
yet be sure

1038
00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:35.620
what the Trump
administration’s motives are,

1039
00:44:35.620 --> 00:44:39.000
what they have at their disposal
is far greater

1040
00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:42.650
than what was had in Soviet Russia,
in Nazi Germany.

1041
00:44:42.650 --> 00:44:45.960
I’m thinking in particular
of Himmler complaining

1042
00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:47.870
that he had trouble

1043
00:44:47.870 --> 00:44:49.670
keeping track of all
the people he needed to,

1044
00:44:49.670 --> 00:44:51.560
because he needed
so many agents.

1045
00:44:51.560 --> 00:44:54.120
But when you have the kind
of technology that we do,

1046
00:44:54.120 --> 00:44:55.600
you don’t need as many people,

1047
00:44:55.600 --> 00:44:57.630
if you have
the right tools to use.

1048
00:44:57.630 --> 00:45:02.460
And so, the ability to gather
that kind of information

1049
00:45:02.460 --> 00:45:04.010
and then potentially use it,

1050
00:45:04.740 --> 00:45:09.080
domestically or on foreigners
who happen to be here,

1051
00:45:09.080 --> 00:45:11.180
I think is something
that’s worth paying attention

1052
00:45:11.180 --> 00:45:12.540
to and to be concerned about.

1053
00:45:12.540 --> 00:45:14.820
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Andrea Pitzer,
journalist and author

1054
00:45:14.820 --> 00:45:16.540
who writes about lost
and forgotten history.

1055
00:45:16.540 --> 00:45:18.120
Her upcoming book, One Long Night:

1056
00:45:18.120 --> 00:45:20.440
A Global History
of Concentration Camps.

1057
00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:23.100
This is Democracy Now!,
democracynow.org,

1058
00:45:23.100 --> 00:45:24.570
The War and Peace Report.

1059
00:45:24.570 --> 00:45:26.570
Stay with us.

1060
00:46:23.910 --> 00:46:26.410
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!,
democracynow.org,

1061
00:46:26.410 --> 00:46:29.210
The War and Peace Report.
I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.

1062
00:46:29.210 --> 00:46:31.080
NERMEEN SHAIKH: As attorneys
and activists continue

1063
00:46:31.080 --> 00:46:33.850
to fight Donald Trump’s
travel ban on refugees

1064
00:46:33.850 --> 00:46:37.130
and nationals from
seven Muslim-majority countries,

1065
00:46:37.130 --> 00:46:39.580
a new article takes
a sweeping look at history

1066
00:46:39.580 --> 00:46:41.470
to find what it portends.

1067
00:46:41.470 --> 00:46:42.910
Perhaps more fascinating

1068
00:46:42.910 --> 00:46:44.610
is that the story
involves the family

1069
00:46:44.610 --> 00:46:47.570
of one of the senior-most members
of the Trump administration.

1070
00:46:48.190 --> 00:46:50.340
In "Nobody Wanted to Take Us In:

1071
00:46:50.340 --> 00:46:53.630
The Story of Jared
Kushner’s Family, and Mine,"

1072
00:46:53.630 --> 00:46:55.490
Nation magazine senior editor

1073
00:46:55.490 --> 00:46:58.560
Lizzy Ratner looks at the journey
of both her family

1074
00:46:58.560 --> 00:47:00.420
and that of Donald Trump’s son-in-law

1075
00:47:00.420 --> 00:47:02.740
and senior adviser Jared Kushner,

1076
00:47:02.740 --> 00:47:05.040
the husband of Ivanka Trump.

1077
00:47:05.040 --> 00:47:07.260
Both Ratner’s and Kushner’s grandparents

1078
00:47:07.260 --> 00:47:08.570
came to the United States

1079
00:47:08.570 --> 00:47:10.740
as Jewish immigrants from Poland,

1080
00:47:10.740 --> 00:47:13.180
as the German occupation
was ramping up

1081
00:47:13.180 --> 00:47:15.230
and U.S. borders were closing down.

1082
00:47:15.230 --> 00:47:17.740
AMY GOODMAN: Jared Kushner’s
grandmother, Rae Kushner,

1083
00:47:17.740 --> 00:47:19.860
was born February 27th,

1084
00:47:19.860 --> 00:47:23.340
1923, in Novogrudok, Poland,

1085
00:47:23.340 --> 00:47:26.340
and lost most of her family
during the Holocaust.

1086
00:47:26.340 --> 00:47:29.900
In 1982, Rae Kushner was interviewed
as part of a project

1087
00:47:29.900 --> 00:47:31.900
for the Kean University
of New Jersey

1088
00:47:31.900 --> 00:47:34.450
Holocaust Resource Center
and recalled attempts

1089
00:47:34.450 --> 00:47:37.960
by her family to flee
before the German occupation.

1090
00:47:39.510 --> 00:47:41.700
RAE KUSHNER: But we felt
the anti-Semitism

1091
00:47:41.700 --> 00:47:44.620
before that is coming something,

1092
00:47:44.620 --> 00:47:47.160
but we couldn’t help ourselves.

1093
00:47:47.160 --> 00:47:48.480
The door was closed that time.

1094
00:47:49.350 --> 00:47:52.650
You know how hard it was
to get a visa to Israel to go?

1095
00:47:53.990 --> 00:47:57.330
Young girls and boys used to sit
in a kibbutz for three,

1096
00:47:57.330 --> 00:47:59.260
four years,

1097
00:47:59.260 --> 00:48:02.270
’til one used to go to Palestine.

1098
00:48:02.270 --> 00:48:04.450
To America, very hard.

1099
00:48:04.450 --> 00:48:07.620
If you send papers,
you need to wait for two,

1100
00:48:07.620 --> 00:48:09.700
three years ’til you
get a visa at that time.

1101
00:48:09.700 --> 00:48:12.300
INTERVIEWER: So your family,
your father actually

1102
00:48:12.300 --> 00:48:15.210
was making attempts
in 1935, ’36?

1103
00:48:15.210 --> 00:48:19.830
RAE KUSHNER: '36, yeah. He had a sister
here in United States, my father.

1104
00:48:20.700 --> 00:48:22.280
And we tried.

1105
00:48:23.240 --> 00:48:25.720
We heard the times
is going to be felt.

1106
00:48:28.030 --> 00:48:30.030
But we couldn't do nothing.

1107
00:48:31.240 --> 00:48:36.700
Later, in 1941,
beginning of 1941,

1108
00:48:36.700 --> 00:48:39.260
Germany took over us.

1109
00:48:39.260 --> 00:48:40.800
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Rae Kushner,

1110
00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:43.820
the grandmother of Jared Kushner.

1111
00:48:43.820 --> 00:48:45.530
She was speaking in 1982.

1112
00:48:45.530 --> 00:48:46.880
She died in 2004.

1113
00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:49.460
Joining us now,
The Nation's Lizzy Ratner.

1114
00:48:49.460 --> 00:48:51.830
Her piece, "Nobody Wanted to Take Us In:

1115
00:48:51.830 --> 00:48:54.720
The Story of Jared
Kushner's Family, and Mine."

1116
00:48:54.720 --> 00:48:56.270
Talk about why you wrote this, Lizzy.

1117
00:48:57.250 --> 00:49:00.810
LIZZY RATNER: I wrote this story
because—for a bunch of reasons.

1118
00:49:00.810 --> 00:49:03.340
With the election,
I began thinking about immigration.

1119
00:49:03.340 --> 00:49:05.620
And I knew—Trump had
warned—you know,

1120
00:49:05.620 --> 00:49:06.950
immigrants were going to be targets,

1121
00:49:06.950 --> 00:49:08.890
refugees were going to be targets.

1122
00:49:08.890 --> 00:49:11.250
My family was
enormously lucky.

1123
00:49:11.250 --> 00:49:13.890
We got to the United States
at the end of a period

1124
00:49:13.890 --> 00:49:17.090
of really rich immigration
from Eastern Europe.

1125
00:49:17.090 --> 00:49:19.440
It was—but it was
at the very tail end.

1126
00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:21.560
My grandfather arrived in 1920.

1127
00:49:22.200 --> 00:49:24.610
He arrived from Bialystok, Poland,

1128
00:49:24.610 --> 00:49:26.540
which was not a happy place
to be at the time.

1129
00:49:26.540 --> 00:49:29.130
It was the end of World War I.
There were pogroms.

1130
00:49:29.130 --> 00:49:30.470
There was hunger. And he—

1131
00:49:30.470 --> 00:49:31.970
AMY GOODMAN: And what
do you mean by "pogroms"?

1132
00:49:31.970 --> 00:49:34.020
LIZZY RATNER: Pogroms were
sort of attacks

1133
00:49:34.020 --> 00:49:35.870
on Jewish people that took place

1134
00:49:35.870 --> 00:49:38.900
throughout Eastern Europe
throughout the 19th

1135
00:49:38.900 --> 00:49:41.480
and early 20th century,
possibly before that.

1136
00:49:42.190 --> 00:49:44.360
And so he came here in 1920.

1137
00:49:44.360 --> 00:49:46.680
And it turned out to be
an enormously fortuitous

1138
00:49:46.680 --> 00:49:49.250
moment—he had
incredible timing—

1139
00:49:49.250 --> 00:49:50.640
because it was a moment

1140
00:49:50.640 --> 00:49:53.980
of sort of rising xenophobia
in the United States.

1141
00:49:53.980 --> 00:49:56.010
The United States was not happy

1142
00:49:56.010 --> 00:49:58.070
about all the refugees
coming from Eastern Europe,

1143
00:49:58.070 --> 00:49:59.640
coming from Southern Europe,

1144
00:49:59.640 --> 00:50:02.210
and so they passed—the country

1145
00:50:02.210 --> 00:50:05.910
passed a series of extreme
anti-immigrant measures.

1146
00:50:05.910 --> 00:50:08.730
And I’ve always thought,
"My god, my family got so lucky

1147
00:50:08.730 --> 00:50:10.090
coming here six months

1148
00:50:10.090 --> 00:50:11.880
before one of the most

1149
00:50:11.880 --> 00:50:15.240
severe anti-immigrant measures
of that period was passed."

1150
00:50:15.240 --> 00:50:17.420
If they hadn’t got here in 1920,

1151
00:50:17.420 --> 00:50:20.030
they might not have gotten
to the United States.

1152
00:50:20.030 --> 00:50:23.120
And what happened to Jews
who didn’t get to the United States

1153
00:50:23.120 --> 00:50:24.330
is that many—but not all,

1154
00:50:24.330 --> 00:50:26.870
but many—ended up
dying in the Holocaust.

1155
00:50:26.870 --> 00:50:29.160
So, I was sort of thinking
about all of this

1156
00:50:29.160 --> 00:50:32.030
as the election happened,
and I began to wonder.

1157
00:50:32.030 --> 00:50:37.000
Well, Jared Kushner
is a very powerful person

1158
00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:39.850
in the now Trump administration.

1159
00:50:39.850 --> 00:50:42.730
I knew that his family,
they were Holocaust survivors.

1160
00:50:42.730 --> 00:50:44.900
And I said, "I bet there’s
an immigration story,"

1161
00:50:44.900 --> 00:50:49.220
because many Jews who came to
the United States in the 1920s,

1162
00:50:49.220 --> 00:50:50.640
and then many sort of people

1163
00:50:50.640 --> 00:50:52.390
who survived the Holocaust
and didn’t survive,

1164
00:50:52.390 --> 00:50:55.010
had stories of attempts
to getting to this country

1165
00:50:56.030 --> 00:50:57.580
and sort of failed attempts
to getting here

1166
00:50:57.580 --> 00:50:59.040
because there were
these immigration laws

1167
00:50:59.040 --> 00:51:01.920
that really cut the borders
off in 1920, '21.

1168
00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:06.120
So, I just did some very basic research.
I did some googling,

1169
00:51:06.120 --> 00:51:09.050
and I found this remarkable interview
with Rae Kushner,

1170
00:51:09.050 --> 00:51:11.290
who happens to be
Jared Kushner's grandmother.

1171
00:51:11.290 --> 00:51:13.870
And in the interview—and
we just saw a clip of it,

1172
00:51:13.870 --> 00:51:15.160
but in the interview,

1173
00:51:15.160 --> 00:51:17.600
we hear her talking
about her family’s attempts

1174
00:51:17.600 --> 00:51:19.640
to come to the United States
in the 1930s.

1175
00:51:20.230 --> 00:51:25.020
As I said, really 1921, '24, these two
anti-immigrant measures were passed.

1176
00:51:25.020 --> 00:51:28.080
And after that, immigration
from Eastern Europe

1177
00:51:28.080 --> 00:51:30.530
didn't completely stop,
but it became a trickle.

1178
00:51:30.530 --> 00:51:32.380
And so you have these numerous stories

1179
00:51:32.380 --> 00:51:34.430
of Jewish families
in Eastern Europe

1180
00:51:34.430 --> 00:51:35.960
in the 1930s who are saying,

1181
00:51:35.960 --> 00:51:38.940
"Oh, my god, there’s anti-Semitism
rising around us,

1182
00:51:40.020 --> 00:51:41.650
and we need to get out of here."

1183
00:51:41.650 --> 00:51:42.870
And yet, when they tried,

1184
00:51:42.870 --> 00:51:44.570
they found that
the borders were closed.

1185
00:51:44.570 --> 00:51:46.230
So Rae Kushner was one of them.

1186
00:51:46.230 --> 00:51:47.590
And we hear in this clip

1187
00:51:47.590 --> 00:51:50.040
how her family felt anti-Semitism,
couldn’t get here.

1188
00:51:50.040 --> 00:51:52.850
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, let’s go back
to Rae Kushner in her own words.

1189
00:51:52.850 --> 00:51:54.330
Speaking in 1982,

1190
00:51:54.330 --> 00:51:56.190
she explained
the difficulty her family

1191
00:51:56.190 --> 00:51:59.070
faced trying to gain
entry to other countries.

1192
00:51:59.780 --> 00:52:02.970
RAE KUSHNER: And we go a little over
three-and-a-half years.

1193
00:52:02.970 --> 00:52:05.510
We wanted to go all over—to Africa,

1194
00:52:05.510 --> 00:52:08.760
to Australia, to Israel.

1195
00:52:09.270 --> 00:52:12.270
Nobody opened the door for us.

1196
00:52:12.270 --> 00:52:15.710
Nobody wanted to take us in.

1197
00:52:15.710 --> 00:52:19.070
Three-and-a-half years,
we were waiting to get a visa.

1198
00:52:19.070 --> 00:52:22.530
We had family in the United States.

1199
00:52:22.530 --> 00:52:24.680
My husband had a sister.

1200
00:52:24.680 --> 00:52:26.460
He had cousins,
very fine people.

1201
00:52:27.200 --> 00:52:28.830
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Rae Kushner
went on to question

1202
00:52:28.830 --> 00:52:31.500
the role of U.S. President
Franklin Roosevelt.

1203
00:52:32.330 --> 00:52:34.830
RAE KUSHNER: We never can
understand this.

1204
00:52:34.830 --> 00:52:36.700
Even our good President Roosevelt,

1205
00:52:37.520 --> 00:52:38.790
how come he kept the doors

1206
00:52:38.790 --> 00:52:41.000
so closed to us
for such a long time?

1207
00:52:42.790 --> 00:52:44.870
How come a boat then for exodus

1208
00:52:44.870 --> 00:52:47.450
for—at the border
are returned back to be killed?

1209
00:52:47.450 --> 00:52:50.700
This question I’ll never know,

1210
00:52:52.900 --> 00:52:54.500
and nobody will give me the answer.

1211
00:52:55.370 --> 00:52:58.030
And this man did live
a very hard life.

1212
00:52:59.680 --> 00:53:03.550
NERMEEN SHAIKH: That’s Rae Kushner,
the grandmother of Jared Kushner.

1213
00:53:03.550 --> 00:53:05.640
So, Lizzy, in your research,

1214
00:53:05.640 --> 00:53:09.820
did you find anywhere
Jared Kushner’s mention

1215
00:53:09.820 --> 00:53:14.040
of his own family’s story
of coming to the U.S.?

1216
00:53:14.040 --> 00:53:17.950
LIZZY RATNER: Yeah.
In August of this past year,

1217
00:53:17.950 --> 00:53:20.680
there was a big furor—pardon

1218
00:53:20.680 --> 00:53:24.150
the expression—because Donald Trump

1219
00:53:24.760 --> 00:53:26.450
tweeted out an image

1220
00:53:26.450 --> 00:53:29.290
sort of calling
Hillary Clinton crooked,

1221
00:53:29.290 --> 00:53:32.270
and there was sort of
an image of a Jewish star

1222
00:53:32.270 --> 00:53:33.530
and a pile of cash.

1223
00:53:33.530 --> 00:53:35.680
And it was a moment
when many people said,

1224
00:53:35.680 --> 00:53:39.050
"You know, the Trump campaign
has been supported by anti-Semites.

1225
00:53:39.050 --> 00:53:41.030
It has been engaging
with anti-Semites.

1226
00:53:41.030 --> 00:53:42.920
Is Donald Trump anti-Semitic?"

1227
00:53:42.920 --> 00:53:45.580
And it was after that
that Jared Kushner wrote

1228
00:53:45.580 --> 00:53:46.820
an article in the newspaper

1229
00:53:46.820 --> 00:53:48.750
that he owns called
the New York Observer_,

1230
00:53:48.750 --> 00:53:51.640
saying, "Donald Trump
is not anti-Semitic.

1231
00:53:51.640 --> 00:53:53.020
I know what anti-Semitism is,

1232
00:53:53.020 --> 00:53:56.060
because by grandparents suffered
the worst of anti-Semitism.

1233
00:53:56.060 --> 00:53:58.850
They were survivors
of the Holocaust."

1234
00:53:59.770 --> 00:54:01.210
And so, that was sort of a moment

1235
00:54:01.210 --> 00:54:03.000
that he resurrected their story,

1236
00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:07.420
but in order to justify
the man who, you know,

1237
00:54:07.420 --> 00:54:10.430
arguably was deploying
anti-Semitic motifs

1238
00:54:10.430 --> 00:54:12.190
and who is now, of course,

1239
00:54:12.190 --> 00:54:15.860
in the White House
furthering a regime

1240
00:54:15.860 --> 00:54:17.530
of—an anti-immigrant regime,

1241
00:54:17.530 --> 00:54:20.230
which really does echo
the anti-immigrant regime

1242
00:54:20.230 --> 00:54:22.520
that was put in place in the 1920s

1243
00:54:22.520 --> 00:54:25.000
that ultimately kept out Jews,
like the Kushners.

1244
00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:26.970
AMY GOODMAN: And so, what about
the travel ban today,

1245
00:54:26.970 --> 00:54:29.670
that Donald Trump
just imposed a week ago,

1246
00:54:29.670 --> 00:54:32.700
that led to a revolt
all over the country?

1247
00:54:32.700 --> 00:54:34.520
LIZZY RATNER: Yeah, well, I think
history is really critical here.

1248
00:54:34.520 --> 00:54:36.560
The present—you know,
the present is echoing the past.

1249
00:54:36.560 --> 00:54:38.110
And we talk about—we
just heard a segment

1250
00:54:38.110 --> 00:54:40.190
about the 1930s in Germany.

1251
00:54:40.190 --> 00:54:42.450
But we all have
our own history here

1252
00:54:42.450 --> 00:54:44.320
that foreshadows this moment.

1253
00:54:44.320 --> 00:54:46.710
And our own history
is a history filled

1254
00:54:46.710 --> 00:54:48.750
with strains of xenophobia and hate,

1255
00:54:48.750 --> 00:54:50.400
which had real
consequences for people.

1256
00:54:50.400 --> 00:54:51.970
So I just want to talk
for one second about

1257
00:54:51.970 --> 00:54:53.650
sort of rhetorical parallels

1258
00:54:53.650 --> 00:54:55.380
between the past
and the present.

1259
00:54:55.380 --> 00:54:57.310
When I was researching the 1920s

1260
00:54:57.310 --> 00:54:59.400
and these 1920 anti-immigrant acts

1261
00:54:59.400 --> 00:55:01.920
that had such gruesome
consequences for people,

1262
00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:03.960
I was struck by
the parallels in language.

1263
00:55:03.960 --> 00:55:06.660
So, you had Jewish people
referred to as

1264
00:55:06.660 --> 00:55:08.740
"physically deficient,"
"abnormally twisted,"

1265
00:55:08.740 --> 00:55:10.610
"un-American," "filthy,"

1266
00:55:10.610 --> 00:55:12.000
"a peril to this country,"

1267
00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:15.210
sort of a danger
in all sorts of ways.

1268
00:55:15.210 --> 00:55:17.890
Jews were conceived as both
a threat to the economy,

1269
00:55:17.890 --> 00:55:19.810
but also a threat
to national security.

1270
00:55:19.810 --> 00:55:22.460
The idea was that Jews
who came from Eastern Europe,

1271
00:55:22.460 --> 00:55:24.720
which was sort of a hotbed
of Bolshevism and radicalism,

1272
00:55:24.720 --> 00:55:26.430
would come here,
turn our country red

1273
00:55:26.430 --> 00:55:28.340
from the inside out
and destroy it.

1274
00:55:28.340 --> 00:55:31.430
We hear the same or really
parallel rhetoric today

1275
00:55:31.430 --> 00:55:35.240
being thrown against Muslims,
people from Muslim countries,

1276
00:55:35.240 --> 00:55:36.720
who are being sort of described

1277
00:55:36.720 --> 00:55:39.030
as a threat to our society,

1278
00:55:39.030 --> 00:55:40.730
a fifth column, Trojan horse.

1279
00:55:40.730 --> 00:55:42.750
I mean, Donald Trump
used the term "Trojan horse."

1280
00:55:42.750 --> 00:55:44.310
You could have heard
that applied against Jews

1281
00:55:44.310 --> 00:55:46.940
in the 1920s
and the 1940s.

1282
00:55:46.940 --> 00:55:50.280
And I think we can say, you know,
horrible things happened to people.

1283
00:55:50.280 --> 00:55:52.480
Horrible things were
visited on immigrants

1284
00:55:52.480 --> 00:55:53.880
and desperate refugees

1285
00:55:53.880 --> 00:55:55.330
who wanted to come here.

1286
00:55:55.330 --> 00:55:57.460
AMY GOODMAN: Let’s go back
to Rae Kushner in this interview

1287
00:55:57.460 --> 00:55:59.680
she did in the Kean University

1288
00:55:59.680 --> 00:56:01.860
of New Jersey’s
Holocaust Research Center.

1289
00:56:03.040 --> 00:56:04.790
RAE KUSHNER: Let’s hope it’s not
going to happen again.

1290
00:56:06.270 --> 00:56:08.270
But it can happen,

1291
00:56:09.690 --> 00:56:12.220
if you don’t watch who comes up.

1292
00:56:12.220 --> 00:56:13.740
When I came to Washington,

1293
00:56:13.740 --> 00:56:15.980
the Nazis are going with the swastikas

1294
00:56:15.980 --> 00:56:19.720
in front of the White House.

1295
00:56:19.720 --> 00:56:27.510
And they’re going on free.
And this scares us.

1296
00:56:27.510 --> 00:56:28.900
This is very painful.

1297
00:56:29.710 --> 00:56:33.980
AMY GOODMAN: That was Rae Kushner,
Jared Kushner’s grandmother.

1298
00:56:33.980 --> 00:56:37.250
Jared Kushner, one of the top aides
to Donald Trump in the White House

1299
00:56:37.250 --> 00:56:38.550
and his son-in-law.

1300
00:56:39.130 --> 00:56:42.280
Today, you quote the head

1301
00:56:42.280 --> 00:56:44.340
of the Hebrew
Immigrant Aid Society,

1302
00:56:44.340 --> 00:56:45.780
HIAS, who says,

1303
00:56:45.780 --> 00:56:47.340
"The way we describe ourselves

1304
00:56:47.340 --> 00:56:49.230
is that we used to resettle refugees

1305
00:56:49.230 --> 00:56:50.960
because they were Jewish;

1306
00:56:50.960 --> 00:56:54.670
now we resettle refugees
because we are Jewish."

1307
00:56:54.670 --> 00:56:57.320
LIZZY RATNER: Yeah, it was
a deeply moving comment

1308
00:56:57.320 --> 00:56:58.890
that Mark Hetfield
of HIAS said to me.

1309
00:56:58.890 --> 00:57:02.210
And I think it captures a sentiment
in part of the Jewish community,

1310
00:57:02.210 --> 00:57:04.360
and that should really be the sentiment
of everybody in this country,

1311
00:57:04.360 --> 00:57:06.840
who was an immigrant
and is now assimilated and is here,

1312
00:57:06.840 --> 00:57:09.150
which is that, you know,
there was a time

1313
00:57:09.150 --> 00:57:11.710
when our ancestors
were in desperate need,

1314
00:57:11.710 --> 00:57:14.450
and some people responded to that need,

1315
00:57:14.450 --> 00:57:16.180
and many people around the world didn’t.

1316
00:57:16.180 --> 00:57:19.040
And now we have an obligation,
as people who are here now,

1317
00:57:19.040 --> 00:57:21.960
who have benefited from all
the privileges of this country,

1318
00:57:21.960 --> 00:57:24.370
to keep the doors open
for other desperate people.

1319
00:57:24.370 --> 00:57:26.580
There’s another amazing quote
I just want to end with.

1320
00:57:26.580 --> 00:57:28.810
Mark Hetfield also said, you know,

1321
00:57:28.810 --> 00:57:30.370
"For us to come here,

1322
00:57:30.370 --> 00:57:32.750
for us"—and he’s referring
to Jewish people at this moment.

1323
00:57:32.750 --> 00:57:35.390
"But for Jews to say, ’We’re here now.

1324
00:57:35.390 --> 00:57:37.410
It’s OK to close the doors
on other people,’

1325
00:57:37.410 --> 00:57:39.550
is morally reprehensible."

1326
00:57:39.550 --> 00:57:42.310
And I don’t think I could
have ever said it better.

1327
00:57:42.310 --> 00:57:45.800
AMY GOODMAN: And the conversation
we played with an interview

1328
00:57:45.800 --> 00:57:48.940
between Jeff Sessions,
who was being interviewed

1329
00:57:48.940 --> 00:57:49.910
by Stephen Bannon—
LIZZY RATNER: Yeah.

1330
00:57:49.910 --> 00:57:51.680
AMY GOODMAN: —top aide
to President Trump,

1331
00:57:51.680 --> 00:57:53.760
referring to the old immigration laws.

1332
00:57:53.760 --> 00:57:55.320
LIZZY RATNER: Yeah, I was
just listening to that.

1333
00:57:55.320 --> 00:57:57.140
So, Jeff Sessions, you know,

1334
00:57:57.140 --> 00:57:58.450
in this interview
you played yesterday,

1335
00:57:58.450 --> 00:58:01.220
is celebrating the 1924 act,

1336
00:58:01.220 --> 00:58:03.470
the Reed-Johnson Act—or,
the Johnson-Reed Act,

1337
00:58:03.470 --> 00:58:06.770
which closed the border for Jews and,
I need to also emphasize,

1338
00:58:06.770 --> 00:58:09.040
for millions of people from other parts
of the world, too.

1339
00:58:09.040 --> 00:58:09.840
It wasn’t just Jews.,

1340
00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:13.290
but we know the sort of consequences
were catastrophic for Jews.

1341
00:58:13.290 --> 00:58:15.940
But it’s terrifying to me
that Jeff Sessions

1342
00:58:15.940 --> 00:58:17.360
is celebrating this act

1343
00:58:17.360 --> 00:58:19.380
that we now know
and regard—you know,

1344
00:58:19.380 --> 00:58:22.810
it’s universally regarded
as xenophobic and destructive

1345
00:58:22.810 --> 00:58:24.530
and baseless

1346
00:58:24.530 --> 00:58:27.710
and a terrible mark
on this country’s history.

1347
00:58:27.710 --> 00:58:28.820
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to have
to leave it there,

1348
00:58:28.820 --> 00:58:30.830
Lizzy Ratner, senior editor
at The Nation.

1349
00:58:30.830 --> 00:58:32.890
We’ll link to her article,

1350
00:58:32.890 --> 00:58:34.750
"Nobody Wanted to Take Us In:

1351
00:58:34.750 --> 00:58:38.600
The Story of Jared
Kushner’s Family, and Mine."

1352
00:58:38.600 --> 00:58:40.670
And that does it for today’s show.

1353
00:58:40.670 --> 00:58:42.570
A correction: Our headlines
on Wednesday included

1354
00:58:42.570 --> 00:58:46.650
a claim by a man who told WJBK

1355
00:58:46.650 --> 00:58:47.890
in Detroit that his mother,

1356
00:58:47.890 --> 00:58:49.690
an Iraqi-American
green card holder,

1357
00:58:49.690 --> 00:58:51.920
died after being denied
entry into the United States.

1358
00:58:51.920 --> 00:58:54.520
An imam in Detroit
has since told the station

1359
00:58:54.520 --> 00:58:56.280
that the woman died
in Iraq five days

1360
00:58:56.280 --> 00:59:00.260
before the ban went into place.