WEBVTT

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From Pacifica,

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this is Democracy Now!

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Tonight I ordered
a targeted military strike

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on the airfield in Syria

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from where the chemical attack
was launched.

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It is in this vital
national security

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interest of the United States

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to prevent and deter the spread

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and use of deadly
chemical weapons.

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Without congressional approval,
the United States

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has attacked a Syrian airfield,

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marking the first military action

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by the U.S. against Syrian President
Bashar al-Assad’s forces

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since the Syrian war began
six years ago.

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The move comes after the U.S.
accused Assad’s forces

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of using the air base

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to carry out
a chemical weapons

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attack that killed 86 people,

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including at least 30 children.

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Syria denies carrying out the attack.

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We’ll host a roundtable discussion.

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Then, to Capitol Hill,

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where senators invoke
the nuclear option,

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that will allow
Supreme Court justices

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to become confirmed
by a simple majority.

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The nuclear option means the end

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of a long history of consensus

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on Supreme Court nominations.

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It weakens the standing
of the Senate as a whole,

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as a check on
the president’s ability

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to shape the judiciary.

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The vote ends
a Democratic-led

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filibuster aimed at blocking
Neil Gorsuch’s confirmation,

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clearing the way
for a Senate vote today

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on President Trump’s
pick for the Supreme Court.

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All that and more, coming up.

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Welcome to Democracy Now!,

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democracynow.org,
The War and Peace Report.

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I’m Amy Goodman.

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U.S. warships fired
a barrage of missiles

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into Syria Thursday evening,

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in the first direct U.S. assault
on the Syrian government

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since the start of the civil
war six years ago.

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The Pentagon said a pair
of naval destroyers

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in the eastern Mediterranean fired

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59 Tomahawk cruise missiles

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at a Syrian air base
in Homs province.

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Syria’s government said
the strikes killed six people,

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and condemned the U.S. attack
as an "act of aggression."

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In a short address
from the Trump

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Mar-a-Lago golf resort in Palm Beach,

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Florida, President Donald Trump

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said the assault was retribution

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for a Syrian chemical weapons
attack earlier this week

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that killed 86 civilians,

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including 30 children.
President Donald Trump:

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"Tonight I ordered

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a targeted military strike

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on the airfield in Syria

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from where the chemical attack
was launched.

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It is in this vital
national security

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interest of the United States

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to prevent and deter the spread

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and use of deadly
chemical weapons."

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The attacks came without
a declaration of war

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or any other form
of authorization from Congress.

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California Democratic Congressmember
Barbara Lee tweeted,

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"This is an act of war.

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Congress needs to come back
into session & hold a debate.

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Anything less is an abdication
of our responsibility."

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And Republican Senator Rand
Paul of Kentucky tweeted,

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"The President needs
Congressional authorization

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for military action
as required by the Constitution."

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On Thursday evening,
Trump did not respond

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to a reporter’s questions

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about whether he’d seek
congressional approval for the attack.

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Reporter: "Mr. President,
do you still believe

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you need military—
congressional authorization

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for military action in Syria?"

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President Donald Trump:
"Thank you, everybody.

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Thank you very much."

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In 2013, Trump repeatedly

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tweeted comments
blasting President

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Obama’s push for an assault

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on Syria over
a chemical weapons attack,

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writing, "The President must
get Congressional approval

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before attacking Syria-big mistake
if he does not!"

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The Pentagon says
it targeted its missiles

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to avoid Syrian chemical
weapons storage sites,

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as well as Russian
troops and aircraft.

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Russia’s Foreign Ministry quickly

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condemned the U.S. assault
on Syria’s government,

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saying it threatened
international security.

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Russia said it would bolster
air defenses across Syria

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and suspend its
"deconfliction agreement,"

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which prevents Russian
and U.S. planes

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from coming into conflict
over Syria.

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This is Russian Foreign Ministry
spokesperson Maria Zakharova.

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Maria Zakharova: "Without bothering
to understand what’s happened,

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the United States resorted
to a demonstration of force,

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to military confrontation with a country

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that is fighting
international terrorism.

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It is not the first time
the United States of America

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has demonstrated
such a careless approach.

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It only worsens the problems

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already existing
in the world

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and poses a threat
to international security."

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Democratic Rep.

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Tulsi Gabbard, who met

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with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad

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during a trip in January,

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warned the attack could escalate
to a nuclear war,

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saying, "It angers

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and saddens me
that President Trump

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has taken the advice of war hawks

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and escalated
our illegal regime change war

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to overthrow
the Syrian government."

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We’ll have more
on President Trump’s

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attack on Syria after headlines.

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On Capitol Hill, Senators
voted along party lines

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Thursday for a historic rule change

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that will allow
Supreme Court justices

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to be confirmed by a simple majority.

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The 52-48 vote ended
a Democratic-led

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filibuster aimed at blocking Neil
Gorsuch’s confirmation,

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clearing the way
for a Senate vote today

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on President Trump’s
pick for the Supreme Court.

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Republican Senate Majority Leader
Mitch McConnell said

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the move was necessary
to break a stalemate.

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Sen. Mitch McConnell:
"Our Democratic colleagues

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appear poised

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to block this incredible nominee

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with the first successful
partisan filibuster

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in American history.

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It would be a radical move,

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something completely unprecedented

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in the history
of our Senate."

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McConnell’s comments
came more than a year

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after he led
his Senate colleagues

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on a campaign to refuse

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to even consider
President Obama’s pick

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for the Supreme Court,
Merrick Garland.

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Democrats quickly
condemned the move

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by their Republican colleagues

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to end the filibuster
in Supreme Court

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confirmations—the
so-called nuclear option.

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This is Senate Minority Leader

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Chuck Schumer of New York.

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Sen. Chuck Schumer:
"The nuclear option means

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the end of a long history

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of consensus
on Supreme Court nominations.

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It weakens the standing
of the Senate as a whole,

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as a check on
the president’s ability

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to shape the judiciary.

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In a post-nuclear world,

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if the Senate and the presidency

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are in the hands
of the same party,

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there’s no incentive to even speak
to the Senate minority.

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That’s a recipe
for more conflict

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and bad blood between
the parties, not less."

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A final confirmation vote
for Neil Gorsuch is set for today.

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He’s expected to be confirmed
as a Supreme Court justice,

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replacing Justice Antonin Scalia

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nearly 14 months
after Scalia’s death.

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House Intelligence Committee
Chair Devin Nunes said

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Thursday he’s recusing himself

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from an investigation

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into Russia’s alleged ties
to Trump associates

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and Russia’s role
in the 2016 U.S. election.

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Nunes’s announcement came shortly

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before the House Ethics Committee said
it was investigating

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whether Nunes illegally made
classified information public.

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Republican House
Speaker Paul Ryan said

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Thursday that Nunes
had done nothing wrong,

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but said he welcomed
Nunes’s decision to step aside.

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Speaker Paul Ryan:
"It is clear this process

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would be a distraction
to the House Intelligence

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Committee’s investigation

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into Russian interference
in our election.

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So Chairman Nunes
has offered to step aside

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as the lead Republican
on this particular probe,

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and I fully support his decision."

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Last week,
The New York Times

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revealed White House officials

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met secretly with Nunes
to show him classified

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U.S. intelligence reports

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detailing how Trump associates
were "incidentally"

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swept up in surveillance carried out

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by American spy agencies

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as they conducted
foreign surveillance.

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On the day after
the secret meeting, Nunes,

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who served on Trump’s
transition team, held a press conference

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and then traveled back
to the White House

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to supposedly brief the president

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about the documents
the president’s own staff

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had given him.

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Nunes’s recusal came
after President Trump told

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The New York Times
Wednesday—without

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evidence—that former
National Security Adviser

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Susan Rice committed a crime

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when she unmasked the names
of Trump associates

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whose communications
were swept up

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by U.S. intelligence agencies.

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At the time,
Rice had the authority

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to internally
reveal such names.

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Rice has denied
leaking the names

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of any Trump associates,

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and there’s no evidence
she violated U.S. surveillance laws.

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In Florida, President Donald Trump

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welcomed Chinese President

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Xi Jinping to the Trump Mar-a-Lago golf
resort Thursday

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for two days of talks centered on trade

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and North Korea’s nuclear program.

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Over a steak dinner,
Trump praised President Xi,

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saying in brief remarks

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the pair had
"developed a friendship."

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On the campaign trail,
Trump bashed China’s trade policies,

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once accusing China
of "raping" the United States.

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In environmental news,
the EPA plans to slash funding

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to programs aimed
at protecting children

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and pregnant women
from exposure to lead—a neurotoxin

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known to cause
brain damage.

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The Washington Post reports

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the move would eliminate 70 EPA jobs

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while cutting nearly $17 million
from the programs,

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which provide public education
about the dangers of lead,

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as well as training
to lead remediation workers.

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An estimated 38 million
U.S. homes

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contain lead-based paint,

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with lead poisoning hitting
communities of color the hardest.

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The Bureau of Land Management

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has debuted a new cover
photo for its website:

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a towering pile of coal.

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The 2004 photograph was supplied

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by the Peabody Coal Company.

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It shows an 80-foot coal seam

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at an open-cut coal mine.

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Until recently, the BLM
website’s main photograph

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showed two boys
wearing backpacks gazing

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across a wild landscape
of rolling hills.

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The website’s new look
came a week

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after Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke

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lifted an Obama-era ban

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on coal mining leases
on federal land.

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In South Sudan,
refugees fleeing civil war

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say government soldiers
indiscriminately killed civilians,

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slitting the throats of adults,

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running down children
with a vehicle

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and shooting those
who tried to flee.

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Hundreds of survivors
recounted the violent scenes

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as they fled toward
relative safety in Uganda.

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Password Okot:
"I had two brothers.

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One of them was arrested
by the soldiers

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and slaughtered
for no reason.

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The other one was trying
to flee but was shot dead.

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I don’t even know what to do
with their widows and children."

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Reuters said at least 17 people
were killed by government soldiers,

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while some 3,000 refugees
crossed into Uganda this week.

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South Sudan has been
wracked by civil war

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since 2013,

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00:11:20.160 --> 00:11:22.670
and the U.N. says parts of the country
have entered a famine,

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00:11:22.670 --> 00:11:25.400
with 100,000 people
at risk of starvation.

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00:11:26.140 --> 00:11:28.570
Burmese leader Aung San Suu
Kyi has denied

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00:11:28.570 --> 00:11:30.430
that members of the Rohingya minority

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00:11:30.430 --> 00:11:33.200
group have experienced
ethnic cleansing.

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00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:34.810
The remarks came
in an interview

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00:11:34.810 --> 00:11:36.960
with BBC correspondent
Fergal Keane.

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00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:41.140
Fergal Keane: "Do you ever worry
that you will be remembered

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00:11:41.140 --> 00:11:44.410
as the champion
of human rights,

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00:11:44.410 --> 00:11:47.290
the Nobel laureate,
who failed to stand up

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00:11:47.290 --> 00:11:49.190
to ethnic cleansing
in her own country?"

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00:11:49.190 --> 00:11:50.730
Aung San Suu Kyi:
"No, because I don’t think

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00:11:50.730 --> 00:11:52.220
there’s ethnic cleansing going on.

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00:11:52.220 --> 00:11:54.700
I think ethnic cleansing
is too strong

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00:11:54.700 --> 00:11:56.690
an expression to use
for what’s happening."

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00:11:56.690 --> 00:11:59.360
Fergal Keane: "It’s what I think
I saw there, I have to say."

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00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:02.220
Amnesty International has accused
the Burmese military of murdering,

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00:12:02.220 --> 00:12:04.120
raping and torturing
Rohingya civilians

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00:12:04.120 --> 00:12:05.870
in an ongoing campaign
the human rights

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00:12:05.870 --> 00:12:08.280
group says may amount to crimes
against humanity.

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00:12:08.280 --> 00:12:11.260
At least 20,000 Rohingyas
have been forced to flee

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00:12:11.260 --> 00:12:13.690
into Bangladesh
to escape the violence.

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00:12:13.690 --> 00:12:16.320
In Argentina, workers shut down
the capital city Buenos Aires

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00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:18.310
Thursday in a 24-hour
general strike

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00:12:18.310 --> 00:12:19.810
protesting government job cuts

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00:12:19.810 --> 00:12:22.050
and the policies of President
Mauricio Macri.

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00:12:22.830 --> 00:12:25.960
The strike came as Macri welcomed
the World Economic Forum

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00:12:25.960 --> 00:12:27.800
on Latin America
to Buenos Aires.

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00:12:27.800 --> 00:12:30.720
This is Argentine opposition
lawmaker Alejandro Bodart.

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00:12:32.030 --> 00:12:34.650
Alejandro Bodart:
"President Macri will open

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00:12:34.650 --> 00:12:36.150
the World Economic Forum,

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00:12:36.150 --> 00:12:38.860
and economists from around
the world will come.

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00:12:38.860 --> 00:12:40.520
They are all neoliberals.

294
00:12:40.520 --> 00:12:42.310
There will also be business leaders,

295
00:12:42.310 --> 00:12:45.890
who will discuss how to continue
stealing the riches of our people,

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00:12:45.890 --> 00:12:47.840
how to continue with plans

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00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:50.170
to exclude one sector of society

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00:12:50.170 --> 00:12:52.990
so as to enrich
the same old ones."

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00:12:52.990 --> 00:12:55.040
And Navajo land defender
Katherine Smith

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00:12:55.040 --> 00:12:56.720
has died in Big Mountain, Arizona.

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00:12:56.720 --> 00:12:58.990
While records say
she was 98 years old,

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00:12:58.990 --> 00:13:01.490
her family members
say she was over 100.

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00:13:01.490 --> 00:13:03.930
Smith spent decades
defending Navajo land

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00:13:03.930 --> 00:13:06.520
against intrusions by coal
and uranium miners.

305
00:13:06.520 --> 00:13:08.800
She resisted resettlement
after Congress passed

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00:13:08.800 --> 00:13:11.880
the 1974 Navajo-Hopi
Land Settlement Act,

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00:13:11.880 --> 00:13:14.190
which forced an estimated
6,000 Navajo

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00:13:14.190 --> 00:13:16.840
and 100 Hopi to relocate.

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00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:19.080
In 1979, Smith famously fired

310
00:13:19.080 --> 00:13:20.830
a warning shot from her shotgun

311
00:13:20.830 --> 00:13:22.700
to scare off Bureau
of Indian Affairs

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00:13:22.700 --> 00:13:24.800
employees who arrived
to build a fence

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00:13:24.800 --> 00:13:26.880
marking a redefined Hopi boundary.

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00:13:26.880 --> 00:13:28.150
This is Katherine Smith.

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00:13:28.810 --> 00:13:30.710
Katherine Smith:
"The U.S. government,

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00:13:30.710 --> 00:13:33.270
they’re trying to get rid
of the Navajo here,

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00:13:33.270 --> 00:13:40.150
for took the land away from us.

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00:13:40.150 --> 00:13:42.420
They loaded our sheep.

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00:13:42.420 --> 00:13:43.700
They loaded our cattle.

320
00:13:43.700 --> 00:13:46.620
They loaded our horses.

321
00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:49.630
They just took it away from us.

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00:13:49.630 --> 00:13:56.400
I used this gun on U.S.,

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00:13:56.400 --> 00:13:58.340
who’s trying to stole my land."

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00:13:59.500 --> 00:14:01.870
Katherine Smith died March

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00:14:01.870 --> 00:14:05.550
29 at the age of at least 98,
possibly over 100.

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00:14:05.550 --> 00:14:07.600
And those are some of the headlines
this is Democracy Now,

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00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:10.270
Democracynow.org,
the War and Peace Report.

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00:14:10.270 --> 00:14:11.630
I’m Amy Goodman.

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00:14:11.630 --> 00:14:12.950
AMY GOODMAN: We turn now to Syria,

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00:14:12.950 --> 00:14:16.080
where the U.S. military
has attacked a Syrian airfield,

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00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:18.650
marking the first military action
the U.S. has taken

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00:14:18.650 --> 00:14:21.330
against Syrian President
Bashar al-Assad’s forces

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00:14:21.330 --> 00:14:24.560
since the Syrian war began
over six years ago.

334
00:14:24.560 --> 00:14:28.040
According to the Pentagon,
59 Tomahawk missiles

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00:14:28.040 --> 00:14:30.190
were dropped on
the Shayrat air base.

336
00:14:30.190 --> 00:14:32.600
Syrian state media reports
nine civilians,

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00:14:32.600 --> 00:14:34.190
including four children,
were killed,

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00:14:34.190 --> 00:14:36.620
after a U.S. missile
hit a nearby village.

339
00:14:36.620 --> 00:14:38.510
The U.S. accused Assad’s forces

340
00:14:38.510 --> 00:14:40.390
of using the Shayrat air base

341
00:14:40.390 --> 00:14:42.880
to carry out a recent
chemical weapons attack

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00:14:42.880 --> 00:14:44.570
that killed 86 people,

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00:14:44.570 --> 00:14:46.780
including at least 30 children.

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00:14:46.780 --> 00:14:49.530
Syria denied carrying out
the chemical attack,

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00:14:49.530 --> 00:14:52.150
saying the deaths occurred
after a Syrian airstrike hit

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00:14:52.150 --> 00:14:55.230
a depot of rebel-controlled
chemical weapons.

347
00:14:55.230 --> 00:14:59.170
The U.S. bombing comes just days
after the Trump administration

348
00:14:59.170 --> 00:15:00.420
signaled support

349
00:15:00.420 --> 00:15:02.390
for allowing Assad
to stay in power.

350
00:15:02.390 --> 00:15:04.030
But on Thursday,
President Trump

351
00:15:04.030 --> 00:15:06.170
struck a very different tone.

352
00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:08.700
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: On Tuesday,

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00:15:08.700 --> 00:15:12.280
Syrian dictator
Bashar al-Assad

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00:15:13.700 --> 00:15:16.420
launched a horrible
chemical weapons attack

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00:15:17.110 --> 00:15:19.440
on innocent civilians.

356
00:15:20.350 --> 00:15:22.240
Using a deadly nerve agent,

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00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:26.530
Assad choked out
the lives of helpless men,

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00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:29.210
women and children.

359
00:15:30.640 --> 00:15:33.180
It was a slow and brutal death

360
00:15:34.250 --> 00:15:36.420
for so many.

361
00:15:36.420 --> 00:15:39.480
Even beautiful babies

362
00:15:40.130 --> 00:15:41.900
were cruelly murdered

363
00:15:41.900 --> 00:15:45.970
in this very barbaric attack.

364
00:15:47.420 --> 00:15:51.090
No child of God should
ever suffer such horror.

365
00:15:52.520 --> 00:15:57.050
Tonight I ordered
a targeted military strike

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00:15:57.050 --> 00:15:59.730
on the airfield in Syria

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00:15:59.730 --> 00:16:04.290
from where the chemical attack
was launched.

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00:16:06.030 --> 00:16:09.870
It is in this vital
national security

369
00:16:09.870 --> 00:16:12.810
interest of the United States

370
00:16:12.810 --> 00:16:15.130
to prevent and deter the spread

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00:16:15.130 --> 00:16:19.500
and use of deadly
chemical weapons.

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00:16:20.550 --> 00:16:23.340
There can be no dispute
that Syria

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00:16:23.340 --> 00:16:26.510
used banned chemical weapons,

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00:16:26.510 --> 00:16:29.290
violated its obligations

375
00:16:29.290 --> 00:16:31.330
under the chemical weapons

376
00:16:31.330 --> 00:16:33.640
convention and ignored

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00:16:33.640 --> 00:16:38.780
the urging
of the U.N. Security Council.

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00:16:38.780 --> 00:16:43.290
AMY GOODMAN: The U.S. notified Russia
in advance of the U.S. strikes.

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00:16:43.290 --> 00:16:47.200
Condemning the U.S. attack, Russia did,

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00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:49.080
calling it an act of aggression

381
00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:52.290
against a sovereign state in violation
of international law.

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00:16:52.290 --> 00:16:53.880
Following the attack,

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00:16:53.880 --> 00:16:55.740
Russia suspended
an agreement

384
00:16:55.740 --> 00:16:59.530
with the U.S. aimed at coordinating
airspace over Syria.

385
00:16:59.530 --> 00:17:02.010
Russia is also reportedly offering

386
00:17:02.010 --> 00:17:05.210
to help Syria strengthen
its air defenses.

387
00:17:05.210 --> 00:17:06.960
Meanwhile, there are
reports that Syria

388
00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:08.800
is threatening
to fire Scud missiles

389
00:17:08.800 --> 00:17:10.630
towards Israel if the U.S. carries out

390
00:17:10.630 --> 00:17:14.460
any more airstrikes
on Syrian military targets.

391
00:17:14.460 --> 00:17:17.390
On Capitol Hill, several
lawmakers have accused Trump

392
00:17:17.390 --> 00:17:20.950
of taking the military action
without congressional authorization.

393
00:17:20.950 --> 00:17:23.870
Democratic Congresswoman Barbara
Lee of California

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00:17:23.870 --> 00:17:25.710
said, quote,
"This is an act of war.

395
00:17:25.710 --> 00:17:28.600
Congress needs to come back
into session & hold a debate.

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00:17:28.600 --> 00:17:30.150
Anything less is
an abdication

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00:17:30.150 --> 00:17:32.470
of our responsibility,"
unquote.

398
00:17:32.470 --> 00:17:34.940
Meanwhile, Republican
Congressman Thomas Massie

399
00:17:34.940 --> 00:17:37.080
sent out a tweet quoting
a statement Trump

400
00:17:37.080 --> 00:17:40.030
made in 2013 saying, quote,

401
00:17:40.030 --> 00:17:41.860
"The President must get
Congressional approval

402
00:17:41.860 --> 00:17:43.950
before attacking Syria-big mistake

403
00:17:43.950 --> 00:17:46.250
if he does not!"
unquote.

404
00:17:46.250 --> 00:17:48.100
We’re joined today
by a number of guests.

405
00:17:48.100 --> 00:17:50.070
We were begin
with Alia Malek,

406
00:17:50.070 --> 00:17:52.240
author of The Home
That was Our Country:

407
00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:53.710
A Memoir of Syria.

408
00:17:53.710 --> 00:17:55.490
She’s joining us
here in New York.

409
00:17:55.490 --> 00:17:58.350
In Boston, we’re joined
by Lina Sergie Attar,

410
00:17:58.350 --> 00:18:00.530
a Syrian-American writer from Aleppo.

411
00:18:00.530 --> 00:18:02.380
She runs the Karam Foundation.

412
00:18:02.380 --> 00:18:03.730
In Washington, D.C.,

413
00:18:03.730 --> 00:18:05.040
Phyllis Bennis is with us,

414
00:18:05.040 --> 00:18:07.460
fellow at the Institute
for Policy Studies.

415
00:18:07.460 --> 00:18:09.310
We welcome you all
to Democracy Now!

416
00:18:09.310 --> 00:18:11.000
Alia, let’s begin with you.

417
00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:14.250
Your response to this news
of this first

418
00:18:14.250 --> 00:18:16.310
U.S. attack on the Syrian government,

419
00:18:16.310 --> 00:18:18.700
on the Syrian military, in response,

420
00:18:19.350 --> 00:18:21.280
President Trump said last night,

421
00:18:21.280 --> 00:18:23.550
to the gas attack on Tuesday?

422
00:18:24.790 --> 00:18:26.110
ALIA MALEK: Yes,
that is what he said.

423
00:18:26.110 --> 00:18:28.090
But what his actual
motivations were,

424
00:18:28.090 --> 00:18:29.810
I think, remain to be seen.

425
00:18:29.810 --> 00:18:31.660
My reaction is that there
are a few things

426
00:18:31.660 --> 00:18:32.910
that are clear—one,

427
00:18:32.910 --> 00:18:35.370
that President Trump
has distinguished himself

428
00:18:35.370 --> 00:18:36.870
from his predecessor,

429
00:18:36.870 --> 00:18:38.810
in that he’s shown
he’s a man of action.

430
00:18:38.810 --> 00:18:41.570
He has asserted—or
the appearance—or,

431
00:18:41.570 --> 00:18:42.850
you know, he’s created
the appearance

432
00:18:42.850 --> 00:18:45.090
of sort of asserting a kind of
independence from Russia,

433
00:18:45.090 --> 00:18:48.070
which, given the intrigue surrounding

434
00:18:48.070 --> 00:18:50.140
the Russian involvement
with his election,

435
00:18:50.140 --> 00:18:52.440
is something that would
have a benefit to him.

436
00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:56.060
And most importantly,
what’s missing is

437
00:18:56.060 --> 00:18:57.790
we don’t really know
what effect this

438
00:18:57.790 --> 00:18:59.740
will have on the extent

439
00:18:59.740 --> 00:19:02.480
to which Assad will continue to act
with impunity in Syria.

440
00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:04.000
We know one of the airfields

441
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:06.300
from which he’s launched attacks
has been destroyed.

442
00:19:06.300 --> 00:19:08.780
But we also know
that President Assad

443
00:19:08.780 --> 00:19:11.350
uses—just can sort of twist

444
00:19:11.350 --> 00:19:14.200
just about anything to serve
his own—his own narrative.

445
00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:16.380
And the reality is,
in moments like these,

446
00:19:16.380 --> 00:19:18.940
when the regime tends to lose face

447
00:19:18.940 --> 00:19:22.210
or has sort of appeared
to be insulted or injured,

448
00:19:22.210 --> 00:19:23.710
the people who will pay the price

449
00:19:23.710 --> 00:19:26.110
for that will be Syrian
civilians somewhere else.

450
00:19:26.110 --> 00:19:29.050
I mean, and most importantly,
I guess, what we did learn is that,

451
00:19:30.350 --> 00:19:31.700
for whatever reasons,

452
00:19:31.700 --> 00:19:33.640
Syrians dying by chemical weapons

453
00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:35.160
seems to raise the ire of people

454
00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:37.280
more than whether
they’re dying by bullets

455
00:19:37.280 --> 00:19:38.600
or mortars or barrel bombs,

456
00:19:38.600 --> 00:19:41.660
because no day is different
in the last six years.

457
00:19:41.660 --> 00:19:43.670
Syrian civilians have been
dying continuously

458
00:19:43.670 --> 00:19:46.030
because of both regime actors

459
00:19:46.030 --> 00:19:48.900
and also armed opposition actors.

460
00:19:48.900 --> 00:19:51.600
But most of the deaths
have come from regime actions.

461
00:19:52.310 --> 00:19:55.870
AMY GOODMAN: Let me turn to
Lina Sergie Attar in Boston.

462
00:19:55.870 --> 00:19:58.530
We just spoke to you yesterday
and now today,

463
00:19:59.980 --> 00:20:03.020
this very different world
we’ve entered,

464
00:20:03.020 --> 00:20:04.740
although, as Alia says,

465
00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:06.910
Syrians are dying every day.

466
00:20:06.910 --> 00:20:09.670
It just matters—
it seems to matter more

467
00:20:09.670 --> 00:20:12.090
when chemical weapons are used.

468
00:20:12.090 --> 00:20:14.090
Your response?

469
00:20:14.850 --> 00:20:16.160
LINA SERGIE ATTAR: Well,
I agree with Alia,

470
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:18.310
with what she was saying before.

471
00:20:18.310 --> 00:20:21.720
And I want to say that nobody

472
00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:24.300
wants more violence
to happen in Syria.

473
00:20:24.300 --> 00:20:27.720
Nobody wants to welcome
airstrikes in their country.

474
00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:30.930
But after six years
of watching genocide,

475
00:20:30.930 --> 00:20:34.920
watching over 500,000
people die in Syria

476
00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:37.270
and the destruction of our homeland,

477
00:20:37.270 --> 00:20:39.470
today I am very happy

478
00:20:39.470 --> 00:20:42.940
that there is one less airfield
for Bashar al-Assad

479
00:20:42.940 --> 00:20:45.340
to use to kill his own people,

480
00:20:45.340 --> 00:20:46.860
out of the 26 airfields

481
00:20:46.860 --> 00:20:49.200
that have been used
over the past six years

482
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:51.100
to bomb the Syrian people,

483
00:20:51.100 --> 00:20:53.240
as Alia said,
with chemical weapons,

484
00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:56.110
with barrel bombs
and with all sorts of weaponry.

485
00:20:56.110 --> 00:20:59.090
And we cannot forget
the tens of thousands of people

486
00:20:59.090 --> 00:21:01.320
who are under torture

487
00:21:01.320 --> 00:21:04.000
in Assad’s dungeons across Syria,

488
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:06.200
and people are not talking
about the people

489
00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:07.520
that are—have been imprisoned

490
00:21:07.520 --> 00:21:09.650
and being tortured
for years now.

491
00:21:09.650 --> 00:21:13.340
And I was struck by the response

492
00:21:13.340 --> 00:21:14.990
of Syrians on social media

493
00:21:14.990 --> 00:21:17.350
in the past 12 hours or so.

494
00:21:17.350 --> 00:21:19.570
And one of the responses

495
00:21:19.570 --> 00:21:21.580
from an activist,
Marcell Shehwaro,

496
00:21:21.580 --> 00:21:24.310
on Facebook is that she said

497
00:21:24.310 --> 00:21:28.950
that just having the possibility
of—only the possibility,

498
00:21:28.950 --> 00:21:31.230
not the actual knowledge,

499
00:21:31.230 --> 00:21:34.850
that Syrians will no longer die
from a chemical weapons

500
00:21:34.850 --> 00:21:38.870
attack makes us
feel happy today.

501
00:21:38.870 --> 00:21:41.710
So, the possibility
of less death for us

502
00:21:42.540 --> 00:21:45.150
is something that we have to take

503
00:21:45.150 --> 00:21:47.590
as a sign of positivity.

504
00:21:47.590 --> 00:21:50.480
And that’s the sad state
of the world we live in.

505
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:52.440
AMY GOODMAN: Phyllis Bennis,
do you think

506
00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:55.040
this will lead to fewer deaths?

507
00:21:56.530 --> 00:21:59.340
PHYLLIS BENNIS: Unfortunately,
I’m afraid I don’t think it will.

508
00:21:59.340 --> 00:22:01.980
I think that the horror
of this attack—and

509
00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:03.810
I think there is
a particular issue

510
00:22:03.810 --> 00:22:05.740
around the use
of chemical weapons

511
00:22:05.740 --> 00:22:09.240
because there’s a particular
international law prohibition

512
00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:10.920
against chemical weapons.

513
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:12.360
So it does matter more.

514
00:22:12.360 --> 00:22:16.830
Unfortunately, that’s not what
we heard from President Trump.

515
00:22:16.830 --> 00:22:19.850
What we heard was that
he was motivated by the claim

516
00:22:19.850 --> 00:22:23.360
that this was somehow
in the U.S. interest,

517
00:22:23.360 --> 00:22:25.320
that this was going
to protect Americans,

518
00:22:25.320 --> 00:22:27.110
which is simply not the case.

519
00:22:27.110 --> 00:22:30.250
He made no reference to what
it might mean for Syrians.

520
00:22:30.250 --> 00:22:33.350
And he referred to it
in terms of his own emotions.

521
00:22:33.350 --> 00:22:36.320
He was moved by
seeing these children

522
00:22:36.320 --> 00:22:38.390
that had been killed
so horrifically,

523
00:22:38.390 --> 00:22:42.380
as I think everybody who saw
or heard anything about this attack.

524
00:22:42.380 --> 00:22:44.200
But that doesn’t take into account,

525
00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:45.500
Amy, as we know,

526
00:22:45.500 --> 00:22:47.500
the problem of the war

527
00:22:47.500 --> 00:22:49.710
that has been waged in Syria

528
00:22:49.710 --> 00:22:51.110
and in the region,

529
00:22:51.110 --> 00:22:52.710
where the deaths of children

530
00:22:52.710 --> 00:22:54.990
have not motivated, either,

531
00:22:54.990 --> 00:22:57.560
U.S. officials—the deaths
of children in Mosul,

532
00:22:57.560 --> 00:22:59.700
the deaths of children across Syria,

533
00:22:59.700 --> 00:23:01.930
the deaths of refugee children

534
00:23:01.930 --> 00:23:04.720
who are being denied entrance
to the United States.

535
00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:07.560
The hypocrisy of it
from the vantage point

536
00:23:07.560 --> 00:23:09.480
of the Trump administration

537
00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:11.540
is staggering,
an administration

538
00:23:11.540 --> 00:23:13.630
that slams the door in the face

539
00:23:13.630 --> 00:23:15.000
overwhelmingly of children

540
00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:16.620
and women from Syria

541
00:23:16.620 --> 00:23:19.580
who are trying desperately
to find refuge somewhere.

542
00:23:19.580 --> 00:23:22.000
This is something that might
actually help some people.

543
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:26.010
I don’t think that an attack
on one airfield,

544
00:23:26.010 --> 00:23:29.790
unfortunately, is going to change
the military balance of forces.

545
00:23:29.790 --> 00:23:32.940
I think what we are seeing
is a complete violation

546
00:23:32.940 --> 00:23:35.270
of international law
by the United States,

547
00:23:36.600 --> 00:23:38.820
in the context of other violations

548
00:23:38.820 --> 00:23:43.290
that have happened across
the war battlefield in Syria,

549
00:23:43.290 --> 00:23:46.270
certainly more casualties
caused by the regime,

550
00:23:46.270 --> 00:23:49.580
but violations of international
law on all sides.

551
00:23:49.580 --> 00:23:53.030
The claim that somehow
Trump’s own emotions

552
00:23:53.030 --> 00:23:56.350
give him the right to now
violate both domestic

553
00:23:56.350 --> 00:23:58.880
law—no consultation
with Congress—and

554
00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:00.530
international law—no approval

555
00:24:00.530 --> 00:24:03.470
from the United Nations—this
was an illegal act.

556
00:24:03.470 --> 00:24:05.320
This was an act of war.

557
00:24:05.320 --> 00:24:06.900
And to say that this is somehow

558
00:24:06.900 --> 00:24:09.310
going to make things
better for Syrians,

559
00:24:09.310 --> 00:24:11.150
I’m afraid that after this,

560
00:24:11.150 --> 00:24:13.130
it’s going to get
much worse, not better.

561
00:24:14.070 --> 00:24:15.560
AMY GOODMAN: Alia Malek,
your response?

562
00:24:16.490 --> 00:24:18.510
ALIA MALEK: No, I mean,
Phyllis raises some important points,

563
00:24:18.510 --> 00:24:20.680
but the—and the reality is,
we don’t know.

564
00:24:20.680 --> 00:24:23.610
We cannot really evaluate
Trump’s motivations,

565
00:24:23.610 --> 00:24:25.540
because we still have
no real answers

566
00:24:25.540 --> 00:24:27.260
on the collusion with Russia.

567
00:24:27.260 --> 00:24:29.380
I mean, if it is true that, you know,

568
00:24:29.380 --> 00:24:31.740
Trump is really friends with Putin,

569
00:24:31.740 --> 00:24:33.620
then, OK, then this is
all a kind of theater.

570
00:24:33.620 --> 00:24:35.400
And this is what a lot of Syrians
are saying today,

571
00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:37.610
that it’s just
a sort of a performance

572
00:24:37.610 --> 00:24:39.960
to sort of make it look like
there’s independence

573
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:41.960
between—between
the two world leaders.

574
00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:43.730
We’re at day one.

575
00:24:43.730 --> 00:24:46.060
Do I think that all of a sudden
there’s been some sort of, you know,

576
00:24:46.060 --> 00:24:49.310
articulation of a coherent policy
from this administration

577
00:24:49.310 --> 00:24:50.520
as to what to do in Syria?

578
00:24:50.520 --> 00:24:52.210
No, absolutely not.

579
00:24:52.210 --> 00:24:54.220
I mean, we’re just sort of
speculating at this point,

580
00:24:54.220 --> 00:24:56.680
until we can really know,
with some sort of transparency,

581
00:24:56.680 --> 00:24:58.810
what the relationship is between
this administration,

582
00:24:58.810 --> 00:25:00.840
in its election,
and the Russians.

583
00:25:02.140 --> 00:25:04.360
AMY GOODMAN: Lina,
if you could respond

584
00:25:04.360 --> 00:25:07.350
to what Phyllis said,

585
00:25:07.350 --> 00:25:11.180
and also let’s go to
the comment of Tulsi Gabbard

586
00:25:11.180 --> 00:25:13.450
that I was just talking about,

587
00:25:14.030 --> 00:25:18.490
who just said—she warned the attack

588
00:25:18.490 --> 00:25:20.750
could escalate
to a nuclear war,

589
00:25:20.750 --> 00:25:22.250
saying, "It angers

590
00:25:22.250 --> 00:25:24.750
and saddens me
that President Trump

591
00:25:24.750 --> 00:25:27.180
has taken the advice of war hawks

592
00:25:27.180 --> 00:25:30.760
and escalated
our illegal regime change war

593
00:25:30.760 --> 00:25:33.200
to overthrow the Syrian government."

594
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:35.600
She also said
in her statement,

595
00:25:35.600 --> 00:25:37.770
"A successful
prosecution of Assad

596
00:25:37.770 --> 00:25:39.320
(at the International Criminal Court)

597
00:25:39.320 --> 00:25:41.000
will require collection
of evidence

598
00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:42.230
from the scene
of the incident,

599
00:25:42.230 --> 00:25:45.530
and I support the United Nation’s
efforts in this regard.

600
00:25:45.530 --> 00:25:49.090
Without such evidence,
successful prosecution

601
00:25:49.090 --> 00:25:50.320
is impossible,"

602
00:25:50.320 --> 00:25:51.750
she said.

603
00:25:51.750 --> 00:25:55.770
And she went on from there
in her comments.

604
00:25:55.770 --> 00:25:58.710
And I wanted to get your comment
on her full statement.

605
00:25:58.710 --> 00:26:01.080
She says, "This escalation
is short-sighted

606
00:26:01.080 --> 00:26:03.050
and will lead
to more dead civilians,

607
00:26:03.050 --> 00:26:06.660
more refugees, the strengthening
of al-Qaeda and other terrorists,

608
00:26:06.660 --> 00:26:09.290
and a direct confrontation
between the United States

609
00:26:09.290 --> 00:26:12.580
and Russia—which could lead
to nuclear war."

610
00:26:12.580 --> 00:26:13.920
Lina, your thoughts?

611
00:26:15.550 --> 00:26:19.080
LINA SERGIE ATTAR: Well,
for many years, since 2013,

612
00:26:19.080 --> 00:26:21.110
since the chemical
weapons attack in Ghouta,

613
00:26:21.110 --> 00:26:23.630
which killed over
1,400 people,

614
00:26:23.630 --> 00:26:25.480
Syrians themselves have said,

615
00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:27.380
"What comes after
chemical weapons?

616
00:26:27.380 --> 00:26:31.950
Will Bashar al-Assad himself
use nuclear war against us?"

617
00:26:31.950 --> 00:26:33.110
And this is the question.

618
00:26:33.110 --> 00:26:36.270
How much further can
we escalate this war

619
00:26:36.270 --> 00:26:38.910
against the Syrian people
and Syrian civilians

620
00:26:38.910 --> 00:26:40.840
by the Assad regime
and its allies?

621
00:26:40.840 --> 00:26:43.140
So this is the question
that Syrians have been asking.

622
00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:45.750
They have been suffering
for many years.

623
00:26:45.750 --> 00:26:47.830
They have been the ones
living under the bombs

624
00:26:47.830 --> 00:26:50.010
and under the barrel bombs
and under the threat

625
00:26:50.010 --> 00:26:51.580
of chemical weapons attacks.

626
00:26:51.580 --> 00:26:53.820
And since yesterday,

627
00:26:53.820 --> 00:26:56.050
although we have already heard
that the Assad regime

628
00:26:56.050 --> 00:26:58.830
has struck several areas in Idlib

629
00:26:58.830 --> 00:27:00.890
since yesterday, for the most part,

630
00:27:00.890 --> 00:27:02.990
Syrian skies were quiet.

631
00:27:02.990 --> 00:27:05.590
And we are at that
point of desperation,

632
00:27:05.590 --> 00:27:07.700
where Syrians inside Syria,

633
00:27:07.700 --> 00:27:09.000
inside Khan Sheikhoun

634
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:11.080
and other areas
across the country,

635
00:27:11.080 --> 00:27:12.560
said, for the first time,

636
00:27:12.560 --> 00:27:15.270
they could hear birds
in the skies.

637
00:27:15.270 --> 00:27:19.200
So, escalation of war
to the—to a nuclear war?

638
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:20.490
We don’t know what will happen.

639
00:27:20.490 --> 00:27:23.470
But what we do know is that
when a government bombs

640
00:27:23.470 --> 00:27:25.680
its own people with chemical weapons,

641
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:27.110
there must be
a response.

642
00:27:27.110 --> 00:27:29.320
And what we saw
in the last administration,

643
00:27:29.320 --> 00:27:32.130
with the red line remarks

644
00:27:32.130 --> 00:27:34.420
and hundreds of chemical
weapons attacks

645
00:27:34.420 --> 00:27:36.580
that happened since then,

646
00:27:36.580 --> 00:27:38.820
including several attacks this year,

647
00:27:38.820 --> 00:27:40.600
which nobody responded to,

648
00:27:40.600 --> 00:27:43.930
that, yes, the bombing of an air base

649
00:27:43.930 --> 00:27:46.410
makes—might make them think twice.

650
00:27:46.410 --> 00:27:47.680
And we go back
to this idea

651
00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:50.550
of the possibility
of less attacks,

652
00:27:50.550 --> 00:27:52.530
because maybe he will think twice

653
00:27:52.530 --> 00:27:55.140
before bombing his
own people once again.

654
00:27:55.140 --> 00:27:58.990
And we are very saddened
by the loss of life

655
00:27:58.990 --> 00:28:02.140
every single day in Syria
by the destruction.

656
00:28:02.140 --> 00:28:04.360
No Syrian will be unkilled.

657
00:28:04.360 --> 00:28:06.910
We have paid a very,
very high price

658
00:28:06.910 --> 00:28:10.360
for what the Syrian people
came out on the streets

659
00:28:10.360 --> 00:28:14.340
in 2011 demanding dignity and freedom.

660
00:28:14.340 --> 00:28:16.270
We have come a long way
from there.

661
00:28:16.270 --> 00:28:18.320
And this loss is something

662
00:28:18.320 --> 00:28:21.580
that we will have to mourn
for a very, very long time,

663
00:28:21.580 --> 00:28:22.960
for decades perhaps.

664
00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:24.280
And Alia Malek writes

665
00:28:24.280 --> 00:28:26.250
about this beautifully
in her new book.

666
00:28:26.250 --> 00:28:28.170
Syrians have paid a high price.

667
00:28:28.170 --> 00:28:31.150
And what we hope for is
the end of violence

668
00:28:31.150 --> 00:28:33.330
and the transition to peace,

669
00:28:33.330 --> 00:28:35.540
justice and freedom
for Syria.

670
00:28:35.540 --> 00:28:37.920
AMY GOODMAN: Lina Sergie Attar, I want
to thank you for joining us.

671
00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:39.810
I know you have to leave,
and I’m asking

672
00:28:39.810 --> 00:28:41.340
our other guests
to remain with us.

673
00:28:41.340 --> 00:28:44.190
Syrian-American writer
Alia Malek also with us,

674
00:28:44.190 --> 00:28:46.140
author of The Home
That Was Our Country:

675
00:28:46.140 --> 00:28:47.380
A Memoir of Syria.

676
00:28:47.380 --> 00:28:50.470
Phyllis Bennis, fellow at
the Institute for Policy Studies.

677
00:28:50.470 --> 00:28:51.880
And we’ll be joined by others.

678
00:28:51.880 --> 00:28:53.310
This is Democracy Now!

679
00:29:09.980 --> 00:29:35.060
We’ll be back

680
00:29:35.060 --> 00:30:20.500
in

681
00:30:20.500 --> 00:30:22.050
a minute.

682
00:30:22.050 --> 00:30:24.700
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!,
democracynow.org,

683
00:30:24.700 --> 00:30:26.110
The War and Peace Report.

684
00:30:26.110 --> 00:30:30.150
I’m Amy Goodman, as we continue
our roundtable discussion on Syria,

685
00:30:30.150 --> 00:30:33.930
the United States striking
a Syrian military airbase

686
00:30:33.930 --> 00:30:37.610
for the first time in the six-year
Syrian civil war.

687
00:30:37.610 --> 00:30:40.040
Speaking Thursday, interestingly,

688
00:30:40.040 --> 00:30:41.640
at the Women in the World Summit

689
00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:42.850
in New York City,

690
00:30:42.850 --> 00:30:45.040
before the strike happened,

691
00:30:45.040 --> 00:30:48.470
before President Trump
came out in Florida,

692
00:30:48.470 --> 00:30:51.060
former U.S. Secretary
of State Hillary Clinton

693
00:30:51.060 --> 00:30:54.110
said the U.S. should take out
Syrian President

694
00:30:54.110 --> 00:30:56.100
Bashar al-Assad’s airfields,

695
00:30:56.100 --> 00:30:57.990
after the chemical attack

696
00:30:57.990 --> 00:31:01.230
that killed scores
of people on Tuesday.

697
00:31:02.260 --> 00:31:04.590
HILLARY CLINTON: 
I think we should have been

698
00:31:04.590 --> 00:31:07.720
more willing to confront Assad.

699
00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:10.220
... I really believe that we should have

700
00:31:10.220 --> 00:31:15.290
and still should take out his airfields

701
00:31:15.290 --> 00:31:18.270
and prevent him
from being able to use them

702
00:31:18.270 --> 00:31:20.410
to bomb innocent people

703
00:31:20.410 --> 00:31:23.180
and drop sarin gas on them.

704
00:31:23.990 --> 00:31:26.260
AMY GOODMAN: For more,
we are going to Lebanon,

705
00:31:26.260 --> 00:31:28.900
where we’re joined by
Yazan al-Saadi,

706
00:31:28.900 --> 00:31:30.840
Syrian-Canadian writer,

707
00:31:30.840 --> 00:31:33.520
researcher based in Beirut.

708
00:31:33.520 --> 00:31:35.780
We are also continuing
with Alia Malek,

709
00:31:35.780 --> 00:31:37.980
author of The Home That Was Our Country:

710
00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:39.380
A Memoir of Syria.

711
00:31:39.380 --> 00:31:40.800
Phyllis Bennis is with us,

712
00:31:40.800 --> 00:31:43.410
a fellow at the Institute
for Policy Studies.

713
00:31:43.410 --> 00:31:48.230
And we’re joined by Medea Benjamin,
who is co-founder of CodePink.

714
00:31:48.230 --> 00:31:51.870
So, let’s go to Lebanon right now,

715
00:31:51.870 --> 00:31:54.640
to Yazan al-Saadi.

716
00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:57.320
Your response to the first

717
00:31:57.320 --> 00:32:00.900
U.S. attack on the Syrian military base,

718
00:32:00.900 --> 00:32:05.430
after the Tuesday
chemical attack in Syria?

719
00:32:06.380 --> 00:32:07.890
YAZAN AL-SAADI: Well, my first response

720
00:32:07.890 --> 00:32:10.880
is that I personally don’t think

721
00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:13.500
it’s going to matter much
in the long term.

722
00:32:13.500 --> 00:32:16.250
I think it’s simply
a symbolic attack.

723
00:32:16.250 --> 00:32:20.270
Let us not forget that the U.S.
has told the Russians beforehand

724
00:32:20.270 --> 00:32:21.700
that they were
going to do it.

725
00:32:21.700 --> 00:32:23.810
They hit a lone air base.

726
00:32:23.810 --> 00:32:25.010
This won’t really damage

727
00:32:25.010 --> 00:32:28.240
the capabilities of the Assad regime
to do what it is doing.

728
00:32:28.950 --> 00:32:32.080
I also would like to highlight
that regardless of the fact

729
00:32:32.080 --> 00:32:35.550
that it’s the first so-called
U.S. response on the Syrian regime,

730
00:32:36.080 --> 00:32:37.700
the U.S. has been bombing Syria

731
00:32:37.700 --> 00:32:41.040
since 2014,
killing hundreds of civilians.

732
00:32:41.720 --> 00:32:45.690
So, for me, I would have to disagree
with my other guest, Alia,

733
00:32:46.310 --> 00:32:48.130
in saying that this
is a positive thing.

734
00:32:48.130 --> 00:32:51.360
There can be nothing positive,
nothing at all,

735
00:32:51.360 --> 00:32:54.470
from the U.S. regime,
nor the Russian regime,

736
00:32:54.470 --> 00:32:56.540
in their bombings
and invasions of Syria.

737
00:32:56.540 --> 00:32:58.250
Neither of them—
AMY GOODMAN: You’re referring to Lina.

738
00:32:59.030 --> 00:33:02.540
YAZAN AL-SAADI: Yeah, Lina and Alia
mentioned that this is somehow positive.

739
00:33:02.540 --> 00:33:04.410
I mean, let’s be honest.

740
00:33:04.410 --> 00:33:05.850
Both these superpowers,

741
00:33:05.850 --> 00:33:08.780
with other reactionary forces
in the region,

742
00:33:08.780 --> 00:33:10.560
do not give a damn
about Syrian

743
00:33:10.560 --> 00:33:13.920
self-determination
nor justice for Syrians,

744
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:16.630
like they don’t give a damn
about other communities in the region,

745
00:33:16.630 --> 00:33:18.970
from Bahrain to Yemen to Palestine.

746
00:33:19.660 --> 00:33:22.590
So, I have no hope,
with the Putin regime

747
00:33:22.590 --> 00:33:24.820
or the Trump regime,
in whatever they do.

748
00:33:24.820 --> 00:33:26.220
They can say whatever they want,

749
00:33:26.220 --> 00:33:29.950
but their actions have proven
that they really don’t care.

750
00:33:30.520 --> 00:33:33.840
And they were just—it’s
basically barks between each other.

751
00:33:35.210 --> 00:33:36.600
And it’s not really going to matter much

752
00:33:36.600 --> 00:33:38.830
for the people
on the ground who are dying.

753
00:33:41.460 --> 00:33:42.680
AMY GOODMAN: Alia, if you would respond?

754
00:33:42.680 --> 00:33:44.400
ALIA MALEK: Yeah. No, I didn’t say
it was a positive thing.

755
00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:46.470
I said it might mean
that there’s one less airfield

756
00:33:46.470 --> 00:33:48.710
from which these kinds of attacks
can be launched.

757
00:33:48.710 --> 00:33:51.720
And I didn’t come to this discussion
about Syria today.

758
00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:53.110
And that’s part of the problem,
is a lot of people

759
00:33:53.110 --> 00:33:54.600
are sort of weighing into it today.

760
00:33:54.600 --> 00:33:58.190
For since the very beginning,
actually, and before 2011,

761
00:33:58.190 --> 00:34:00.480
we have been calling for accountability
for the Assad regime

762
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:03.140
in what it had
sort of—its persecution

763
00:34:03.140 --> 00:34:06.570
and prosecution of dissent
and opposition for years.

764
00:34:06.570 --> 00:34:08.470
This goes back to before 2011.

765
00:34:08.470 --> 00:34:12.140
And similarly, I’ve never said
that the only way to engage Syria

766
00:34:12.140 --> 00:34:13.750
or to hold Bashar al-Assad

767
00:34:13.750 --> 00:34:17.530
or other players accountable is
with military—military intervention.

768
00:34:17.530 --> 00:34:19.870
I’ve never been
pro-military intervention.

769
00:34:19.870 --> 00:34:22.530
The reality is,
this regime has backers:

770
00:34:22.530 --> 00:34:24.140
Iran and Russia.

771
00:34:24.140 --> 00:34:26.750
The United States, at any point
during the Obama administration,

772
00:34:26.750 --> 00:34:29.450
could have—could have
confronted them not on—not

773
00:34:29.450 --> 00:34:32.220
in a military sense in Syria,
using Syria as a proxy,

774
00:34:32.220 --> 00:34:34.040
but in the kinds of negotiations

775
00:34:34.040 --> 00:34:35.770
that happen bilaterally all the time.

776
00:34:35.770 --> 00:34:38.670
Let’s not forget, the U.S. was
negotiating a deal with Iran.

777
00:34:38.670 --> 00:34:39.890
It had a card to play.

778
00:34:39.890 --> 00:34:41.740
It had leverage that it
could have used

779
00:34:41.740 --> 00:34:43.540
on the Syrian regime’s principal backer.

780
00:34:44.050 --> 00:34:45.570
And I just want to speak
to the idea

781
00:34:45.570 --> 00:34:48.070
of what Tulsi Gabbard said
and about accountability.

782
00:34:48.620 --> 00:34:51.000
I don’t disagree.
Yes, there should be accountability.

783
00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:53.300
There’s going to be no way
to piece Syria back together

784
00:34:53.300 --> 00:34:55.930
if there isn’t accountability for those
who have perpetrated crimes,

785
00:34:55.930 --> 00:34:58.340
no matter what side they’re on,
or justice for the victims,

786
00:34:58.340 --> 00:34:59.870
no matter what side they’re on.

787
00:34:59.870 --> 00:35:02.110
But a lot of people
are kind of placing

788
00:35:02.110 --> 00:35:04.440
Syria as a character,
as a bit character,

789
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:06.660
into their larger sort of
geopolitical narratives

790
00:35:06.660 --> 00:35:08.490
of what is happening
in this world.

791
00:35:08.490 --> 00:35:12.120
Whether you’re objecting
to intervention by outside powers,

792
00:35:12.120 --> 00:35:13.590
you know, Syria just becomes

793
00:35:13.590 --> 00:35:15.750
like the latest theater
to have that discussion.

794
00:35:15.750 --> 00:35:18.970
Whether it’s a discussion
about sectarianism

795
00:35:18.970 --> 00:35:20.800
and whether Sunnis are
being killed by Shia,

796
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:24.730
it just becomes—or
Shia-related minorities,

797
00:35:24.730 --> 00:35:26.800
it becomes a way to look
at Syria in that sense.

798
00:35:26.800 --> 00:35:29.540
But I’m—I’ve always advocated
for looking at Syria

799
00:35:29.540 --> 00:35:30.820
for the sake of Syrians

800
00:35:30.820 --> 00:35:33.660
and creating a country
that is stable and safe

801
00:35:33.660 --> 00:35:35.220
and free for all its people.

802
00:35:35.220 --> 00:35:38.080
So I just—you know, Yazan—I appreciate
Yazan’s comments.

803
00:35:38.080 --> 00:35:41.250
He’s correct. There’s nobody
who really cares about Syria,

804
00:35:41.250 --> 00:35:43.490
I think,
other than its own people.

805
00:35:43.490 --> 00:35:45.560
But he shouldn’t
mischaracterize my position.

806
00:35:45.560 --> 00:35:47.890
And one more thing
I would just like to say.

807
00:35:47.890 --> 00:35:49.690
I have been struck
in the last six years

808
00:35:49.690 --> 00:35:51.530
over the debate on Syria

809
00:35:51.530 --> 00:35:53.190
why there’s sort of
a fixed amount

810
00:35:53.190 --> 00:35:55.760
of critical thinking
or a fixed amount of anger

811
00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:58.030
or a fixed amount
of sympathy and empathy.

812
00:35:58.030 --> 00:35:59.660
You know, once you take
sort of one position,

813
00:35:59.660 --> 00:36:01.260
it’s as if you cannot sympathize

814
00:36:01.260 --> 00:36:03.450
or empathize or be critical
of another position.

815
00:36:03.450 --> 00:36:05.720
Just because one is critical
of Russian intervention

816
00:36:05.720 --> 00:36:08.690
does not mean that one cannot be
critical of American intervention.

817
00:36:08.690 --> 00:36:11.900
And I think, in a principled,

818
00:36:11.900 --> 00:36:14.550
coherent way of looking
at these things,

819
00:36:14.550 --> 00:36:15.920
we won’t fall into those traps,

820
00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:17.620
which a lot of people
are falling into.

821
00:36:17.620 --> 00:36:19.560
AMY GOODMAN: Yazan al-Saadi in Beirut?

822
00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:22.230
YAZAN AL-SAADI: I agree
with her last point.

823
00:36:22.230 --> 00:36:24.520
I mean, there was,
and there continues to be,

824
00:36:24.520 --> 00:36:26.790
a big problem
in the discussions of Syria,

825
00:36:26.790 --> 00:36:29.200
where geopolitics and ideological lines

826
00:36:29.200 --> 00:36:32.010
are defining over
and beyond the rights

827
00:36:32.010 --> 00:36:33.210
and dignities of people.

828
00:36:33.210 --> 00:36:34.830
So this has been going on,

829
00:36:34.830 --> 00:36:36.360
and it’s still going
on 'til this day.

830
00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:41.750
The conversations about U.S. bombing
of an airfield in Syria

831
00:36:41.750 --> 00:36:44.020
has generated
a sense of hysteria.

832
00:36:44.020 --> 00:36:46.790
Some people, that so-called
anti-imperialist front,

833
00:36:47.350 --> 00:36:49.470
are saying this is
the beginning of World War III,

834
00:36:49.470 --> 00:36:51.280
which is a ridiculous statement.

835
00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:53.520
And other people say this
is the first time America

836
00:36:53.520 --> 00:36:55.590
has intervened in Syria.
And this is not true.

837
00:36:55.590 --> 00:36:57.180
The Americans have been intervening

838
00:36:57.180 --> 00:36:59.110
in Syria for a long time,

839
00:36:59.110 --> 00:37:02.000
in various ways—not
really against the regime,

840
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:03.390
and I agree with Alia there.

841
00:37:03.390 --> 00:37:06.740
They really—it is not
in their interest to promote

842
00:37:06.740 --> 00:37:09.220
and develop self-determination
of Syrians.

843
00:37:09.220 --> 00:37:12.070
And it's a clear policy
they have for the entire region.

844
00:37:12.070 --> 00:37:13.740
Let’s look at
the bigger picture here.

845
00:37:13.740 --> 00:37:15.080
And when I say
"the bigger picture,"

846
00:37:15.080 --> 00:37:18.520
I’m talking about not
the simple anti-imperialist

847
00:37:18.520 --> 00:37:22.430
or geopolitics discourse.
I’m talking about:

848
00:37:22.430 --> 00:37:25.030
What about self-determination
for all the communities?

849
00:37:25.030 --> 00:37:26.370
Because what’s
happening in Syria

850
00:37:26.370 --> 00:37:27.970
is part of a process.

851
00:37:27.970 --> 00:37:31.020
This latest chapter,
that started in 2011,

852
00:37:31.020 --> 00:37:32.680
is part of a regional chapter

853
00:37:32.680 --> 00:37:35.520
that we saw erupting from Bahrain

854
00:37:35.520 --> 00:37:37.060
to Yemen and elsewhere.

855
00:37:37.060 --> 00:37:40.160
So, really, any hope or any feeling

856
00:37:40.160 --> 00:37:44.060
by anyone that Russia or the U.S.
or regional states,

857
00:37:44.060 --> 00:37:46.440
like Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia,

858
00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:48.700
or the regime itself care

859
00:37:48.700 --> 00:37:50.680
or want to promote Syrian

860
00:37:50.680 --> 00:37:53.160
or anyone else’s self-determination

861
00:37:53.160 --> 00:37:55.910
and freedoms and security,
it’s ridiculous.

862
00:37:55.910 --> 00:37:58.220
It’s a ridiculous assumption, you know?

863
00:37:59.460 --> 00:38:01.840
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to bring
in Medea Benjamin,

864
00:38:02.560 --> 00:38:08.180
who has written
extensively about war.

865
00:38:08.180 --> 00:38:10.550
She’s author of Kingdom
of the Unjust:

866
00:38:10.550 --> 00:38:12.640
Behind the U.S.-Saudi Connection—and

867
00:38:12.640 --> 00:38:15.480
there’s certainly a Saudi
connection here—also written

868
00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:16.700
about drones.

869
00:38:16.700 --> 00:38:20.080
Your thoughts last night
when you heard that the U.S.

870
00:38:20.080 --> 00:38:23.370
had just struck
a Syrian military base?

871
00:38:23.370 --> 00:38:27.770
As Yazan said, the U.S. has been part
of coalition bombing in Syria

872
00:38:27.770 --> 00:38:29.950
for a long time,
killed hundreds of people,

873
00:38:29.950 --> 00:38:33.580
but this is the first time
attacking a Syrian military base.

874
00:38:34.720 --> 00:38:36.380
MEDEA BENJAMIN: Well, first,
let’s look at the history

875
00:38:36.380 --> 00:38:38.100
of the U.S. in the region

876
00:38:38.100 --> 00:38:41.240
and the legacy
of the U.S. intervention,

877
00:38:41.240 --> 00:38:44.180
whether it’s Afghanistan, Iraq or Libya.

878
00:38:44.680 --> 00:38:47.020
It’s all been terrible
for the local people.

879
00:38:47.020 --> 00:38:49.880
I think we, on this conversation,

880
00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:51.490
all care about the Syrian people.

881
00:38:51.490 --> 00:38:52.830
Let’s look at what we can do.

882
00:38:52.830 --> 00:38:56.460
And I think that means
going to Congress,

883
00:38:56.460 --> 00:38:58.710
going out in the streets
and saying we don’t want

884
00:38:58.710 --> 00:39:00.570
U.S. further intervention,

885
00:39:00.570 --> 00:39:03.400
but we do want something

886
00:39:03.400 --> 00:39:05.460
that will be positive
for the Syrian people.

887
00:39:05.460 --> 00:39:08.740
That means immediately
lifting of the Trump ban

888
00:39:08.740 --> 00:39:11.650
on Syrian refugees
coming to the United States,

889
00:39:11.650 --> 00:39:14.540
of funding of the $5 billion
that the U.N. says

890
00:39:14.540 --> 00:39:18.140
is desperately needed to help
the humanitarian crisis

891
00:39:18.140 --> 00:39:19.780
facing the Syrian refugees,

892
00:39:21.110 --> 00:39:24.770
and demand that
the U.S. work with Russia

893
00:39:24.770 --> 00:39:28.190
to finally come to a ceasefire

894
00:39:28.190 --> 00:39:30.600
and work for a political solution,

895
00:39:30.600 --> 00:39:32.950
and that the United Nations
get involved in this.

896
00:39:32.950 --> 00:39:34.550
I think this is an opening

897
00:39:34.550 --> 00:39:37.270
that we have to seize
to say enough is enough,

898
00:39:37.270 --> 00:39:40.610
enough people have died,
more war is not the answer,

899
00:39:40.610 --> 00:39:42.590
let’s find a political solution.

900
00:39:43.980 --> 00:39:47.950
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to turn to
what people are seeing on TV,

901
00:39:47.950 --> 00:39:51.670
what started to take over
the networks last night,

902
00:39:51.670 --> 00:39:54.100
when the Pentagon released

903
00:39:54.100 --> 00:39:57.070
video footage
of the U.S. missiles firing.

904
00:39:57.680 --> 00:40:00.920
This is MSNBC anchor Brian Williams

905
00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:03.660
referring to that Pentagon video,

906
00:40:03.660 --> 00:40:05.690
fired at Syria,
as "beautiful,"

907
00:40:05.690 --> 00:40:08.350
something like three times
in 30 seconds.

908
00:40:09.140 --> 00:40:10.950
BRIAN WILLIAMS: Go into
greater detail.

909
00:40:10.950 --> 00:40:14.370
We see these beautiful
pictures at night

910
00:40:14.370 --> 00:40:16.440
from the decks of these two

911
00:40:16.440 --> 00:40:20.220
U.S. Navy vessels
in the eastern Mediterranean.

912
00:40:20.220 --> 00:40:23.290
I am tempted to quote
the great Leonard Cohen:

913
00:40:23.290 --> 00:40:26.050
"I’m guided by the beauty
of our weapons."

914
00:40:26.050 --> 00:40:29.160
And they are beautiful pictures

915
00:40:29.160 --> 00:40:31.530
of fearsome armaments

916
00:40:31.530 --> 00:40:34.120
making what is for them a brief flight

917
00:40:34.660 --> 00:40:36.230
over to this airfield.

918
00:40:36.230 --> 00:40:38.080
What did they hit?

919
00:40:38.080 --> 00:40:41.840
AMY GOODMAN: That is
MSNBC’s Brian Williams

920
00:40:41.840 --> 00:40:43.590
speaking last night,

921
00:40:43.590 --> 00:40:45.380
describing that footage,

922
00:40:45.990 --> 00:40:47.850
the Tomahawk cruise missiles

923
00:40:47.850 --> 00:40:51.530
flying into the air
from the naval warships,

924
00:40:51.530 --> 00:40:53.970
reminding one of, back in 2003,

925
00:40:53.970 --> 00:40:55.900
shock and awe in Iraq,

926
00:40:55.900 --> 00:40:57.570
certainly a very
different scale.

927
00:40:57.570 --> 00:40:59.520
But, Medea, your response?

928
00:41:00.120 --> 00:41:01.860
MEDEA BENJAMIN: It’s absolutely
disgusting,

929
00:41:01.860 --> 00:41:03.780
this glorification of weapons

930
00:41:04.560 --> 00:41:07.840
that are of much
of mass destruction

931
00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:09.820
as the use of
chemical weapons.

932
00:41:09.820 --> 00:41:13.230
The U.S. has been
incinerating people for years

933
00:41:13.230 --> 00:41:14.770
with drone strikes,

934
00:41:14.770 --> 00:41:17.310
killed over 200 people
in Mosul just recently.

935
00:41:17.310 --> 00:41:19.480
The U.S. is arming the Saudis,

936
00:41:19.480 --> 00:41:22.390
that have led to
the catastrophic situation in Yemen

937
00:41:22.390 --> 00:41:25.790
where one child is dying
every single 10 minutes.

938
00:41:25.790 --> 00:41:27.900
We should not glorify the weapons,

939
00:41:27.900 --> 00:41:31.150
and we should not have
a selective sympathy

940
00:41:31.150 --> 00:41:32.780
for people
who are dying,

941
00:41:32.780 --> 00:41:35.580
whether they’re dying
from our weapons

942
00:41:35.580 --> 00:41:37.190
or other nations’ weapons.

943
00:41:37.780 --> 00:41:39.380
AMY GOODMAN: These are some
of the tweets

944
00:41:39.380 --> 00:41:41.880
from President Trump on Syria.

945
00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:44.120
Now, this is back in 2013.

946
00:41:44.120 --> 00:41:46.450
And the reason this period
is significant,

947
00:41:46.450 --> 00:41:49.690
it was after the first
chemical weapons attack,

948
00:41:49.690 --> 00:41:53.220
when some 1,400 Syrians died.

949
00:41:53.220 --> 00:41:55.820
He tweeted,

950
00:41:55.820 --> 00:41:59.500
"What I am saying
is stay out of Syria."

951
00:41:59.500 --> 00:42:03.400
Another tweet: "If Obama attacks
Syria and innocent civilians

952
00:42:03.400 --> 00:42:04.740
are hurt and killed,

953
00:42:04.740 --> 00:42:07.940
he and the U.S.
will look very bad!"

954
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:11.400
"Again, to our
very foolish leader,

955
00:42:11.940 --> 00:42:13.610
do not attack Syria—

956
00:42:13.610 --> 00:42:16.470
if you do many
very bad things

957
00:42:16.470 --> 00:42:19.990
will happen and from that fight
the U.S. gets nothing!"

958
00:42:19.990 --> 00:42:21.310
And he tweeted,

959
00:42:21.310 --> 00:42:24.530
"President Obama,
do not attack Syria.

960
00:42:24.530 --> 00:42:27.580
There is no upside
and tremendous downside.

961
00:42:27.580 --> 00:42:29.790
Save your 'powder' for another

962
00:42:29.790 --> 00:42:32.170
(and more important) day!"

963
00:42:33.250 --> 00:42:35.880
I was wondering if
Yazan would respond

964
00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:38.550
to what President Trump
said four years ago,

965
00:42:38.550 --> 00:42:40.540
after that first
chemical attack?

966
00:42:41.510 --> 00:42:43.300
YAZAN AL-SAADI: I mean,
what is there to respond

967
00:42:43.300 --> 00:42:46.230
to a very revolting human being

968
00:42:46.230 --> 00:42:50.410
who is misogynistic,
xenophobic and a constant liar?

969
00:42:51.060 --> 00:42:53.970
I mean, there isn’t much
to respond to this man.

970
00:42:55.430 --> 00:42:58.610
I think he is clearly—
AMY GOODMAN: But today—

971
00:42:58.610 --> 00:42:59.860
YAZAN AL-SAADI: He’s playing a game.

972
00:42:59.860 --> 00:43:01.170
AMY GOODMAN: But last night—
YAZAN AL-SAADI: He’s playing a game.

973
00:43:01.170 --> 00:43:02.240
He’s playing a game.
You know, when he’s—

974
00:43:02.240 --> 00:43:06.080
AMY GOODMAN: Last night, talking about
the cruel suffocating of the children?

975
00:43:06.680 --> 00:43:09.230
YAZAN AL-SAADI: I’m sorry, but when he’s
talking about the cruel suffocation

976
00:43:09.230 --> 00:43:10.790
of babies—
right?—this

977
00:43:10.790 --> 00:43:14.650
is a man that
doesn’t mind these babies

978
00:43:14.650 --> 00:43:16.100
drowning on the shores

979
00:43:16.100 --> 00:43:17.980
of the Mediterranean Sea
with their family

980
00:43:17.980 --> 00:43:19.820
trying to escape
the horrors of Syria.

981
00:43:20.370 --> 00:43:23.630
This man doesn’t mind
bombing places in Iraq,

982
00:43:23.630 --> 00:43:25.400
where hundreds
of people have died.

983
00:43:25.400 --> 00:43:28.030
This man doesn’t mind
supporting Saudi Arabia,

984
00:43:28.030 --> 00:43:30.200
the world’s most
embarrassing country,

985
00:43:30.200 --> 00:43:31.690
in its slaughter of Yemen.

986
00:43:31.690 --> 00:43:35.130
This man doesn’t mind making a
deal with Bashar al-Assad,

987
00:43:35.130 --> 00:43:39.450
a revolting tyrant,
in order to fight ISIS.

988
00:43:39.450 --> 00:43:41.580
So, I can’t really
take him seriously,

989
00:43:41.580 --> 00:43:42.810
nor can I take seriously,

990
00:43:42.810 --> 00:43:45.510
as well, another individual
who is as revolting:

991
00:43:45.510 --> 00:43:48.520
Putin. Both of them
are fascist individuals.

992
00:43:48.520 --> 00:43:51.560
Both of them don’t give a damn
about the people of this region

993
00:43:51.560 --> 00:43:53.560
or the communities of the world.

994
00:43:53.560 --> 00:43:55.350
So, for me to respond
to this man,

995
00:43:55.350 --> 00:43:57.510
why would I respond
to a xenophobic,

996
00:43:57.510 --> 00:43:58.950
disgusting individual?

997
00:43:59.680 --> 00:44:01.500
AMY GOODMAN: Phyllis Bennis
of the Institute

998
00:44:01.500 --> 00:44:03.750
for Policy Studies in Washington,

999
00:44:03.750 --> 00:44:06.270
what has changed for Donald Trump?

1000
00:44:06.270 --> 00:44:08.110
I mean, even a few days ago,

1001
00:44:08.110 --> 00:44:10.950
on Friday, you had Rex Tillerson,

1002
00:44:10.950 --> 00:44:12.180
the secretary of state,

1003
00:44:12.180 --> 00:44:15.270
and Nikki Haley,

1004
00:44:15.270 --> 00:44:17.780
the U.S. ambassador
to the United Nations,

1005
00:44:17.780 --> 00:44:20.950
saying that they are shifting gear

1006
00:44:20.950 --> 00:44:22.400
and that their priority

1007
00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:24.140
is not to get Assad out.

1008
00:44:25.430 --> 00:44:26.740
PHYLLIS BENNIS: That wasn’t
a shift in gear.

1009
00:44:26.740 --> 00:44:28.680
The shift in gear was now, suddenly,

1010
00:44:28.680 --> 00:44:31.540
because of Trump’s
emotional reaction

1011
00:44:31.540 --> 00:44:34.100
to the deaths of these particular
children—what

1012
00:44:34.100 --> 00:44:38.200
Yazan said is so crucially
important—the hypocrisy,

1013
00:44:38.200 --> 00:44:40.010
the selective outrage,

1014
00:44:40.010 --> 00:44:41.670
that this group of children

1015
00:44:41.670 --> 00:44:44.070
somehow sparks the outrage

1016
00:44:44.070 --> 00:44:46.310
that didn’t exist when
children were slaughtered

1017
00:44:46.310 --> 00:44:48.310
under U.S. bombs in Mosul,

1018
00:44:48.310 --> 00:44:50.940
when children were killed
trying to make the crossing

1019
00:44:50.940 --> 00:44:53.380
with their parents
to a United States

1020
00:44:53.380 --> 00:44:56.300
that would not accept them,
that was slamming a door in their face,

1021
00:44:56.300 --> 00:44:58.740
and drowning on the beach
as a result.

1022
00:44:58.740 --> 00:45:01.560
You know, this is not
about a strategy.

1023
00:45:01.560 --> 00:45:03.620
This is about a lashing out.

1024
00:45:03.620 --> 00:45:06.110
It may be tied to concerns about

1025
00:45:06.110 --> 00:45:08.800
all the political ways
that the Trump administration

1026
00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:10.250
is losing support.

1027
00:45:10.250 --> 00:45:11.860
That’s certainly part of it.

1028
00:45:11.860 --> 00:45:15.220
But I think we also have
to recognize that, historically,

1029
00:45:15.220 --> 00:45:18.240
the role of the United States
in the region has included

1030
00:45:18.930 --> 00:45:20.660
a long-standing relationship

1031
00:45:20.660 --> 00:45:23.560
with the regime
of Bashar al-Assad

1032
00:45:23.560 --> 00:45:24.770
and his father,

1033
00:45:24.770 --> 00:45:27.200
whether it was
recruiting the father in

1034
00:45:27.200 --> 00:45:28.790
to bring his air force

1035
00:45:28.790 --> 00:45:32.790
to help the United States
bomb Iraq in 1991,

1036
00:45:32.790 --> 00:45:35.690
where Syrian planes
were part of that coalition;

1037
00:45:35.690 --> 00:45:37.680
in 2002, when Bashar al-Assad

1038
00:45:37.680 --> 00:45:39.780
agreed that the United States

1039
00:45:39.780 --> 00:45:41.690
would be able to outsource torture

1040
00:45:41.690 --> 00:45:43.860
and interrogation to Syria,

1041
00:45:43.860 --> 00:45:45.730
because they were
experts at that,

1042
00:45:45.730 --> 00:45:49.260
and sent U.S.-held detainees
to be tortured

1043
00:45:49.260 --> 00:45:52.130
by the Syrian regime in Syria.

1044
00:45:52.130 --> 00:45:56.820
So, you know, this history
of relationship, collaboration,

1045
00:45:56.820 --> 00:45:59.270
coalition with the Syrian regime,

1046
00:45:59.270 --> 00:46:01.360
and then,
at particular moments,

1047
00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:03.380
for their own purposes—and it’s true,

1048
00:46:03.380 --> 00:46:05.640
it has nothing to do with concerns

1049
00:46:05.640 --> 00:46:07.140
about the people of Syria.

1050
00:46:07.140 --> 00:46:09.950
There are now at least
11 separate wars

1051
00:46:09.950 --> 00:46:11.550
being waged in Syria,

1052
00:46:11.550 --> 00:46:13.580
and only one of them
has something to do

1053
00:46:13.580 --> 00:46:15.040
with the people of Syria.

1054
00:46:15.040 --> 00:46:16.390
Whether we’re talking
about the war

1055
00:46:16.390 --> 00:46:18.220
between Turkey and the Kurds,

1056
00:46:18.220 --> 00:46:20.570
the war between
Saudi Arabia and Iran,

1057
00:46:20.570 --> 00:46:22.230
the war between the U.S. and Russia,

1058
00:46:22.230 --> 00:46:23.990
which is in transition right now,

1059
00:46:23.990 --> 00:46:27.050
all of these wars
are being waged in Syria.

1060
00:46:27.050 --> 00:46:30.670
And the effect in Syria is that
it’s Syrians doing the dying.

1061
00:46:30.670 --> 00:46:33.720
It’s not Syrians who stand to gain
from any of these wars.

1062
00:46:33.720 --> 00:46:35.830
The only thing we need to do
with these wars

1063
00:46:35.830 --> 00:46:37.950
is not to win them,

1064
00:46:37.950 --> 00:46:40.890
but to end it,
to end the fighting in Syria.

1065
00:46:40.890 --> 00:46:43.310
This escalation by the United States

1066
00:46:43.310 --> 00:46:45.920
of its existing level of bombing

1067
00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:47.640
and special forces engagement

1068
00:46:47.640 --> 00:46:49.880
and intervention in Syria

1069
00:46:49.880 --> 00:46:51.930
has now been escalated
to direct bombing

1070
00:46:51.930 --> 00:46:53.690
against the regime’s targets.

1071
00:46:53.690 --> 00:46:56.090
This is going to make things worse,
and not better.

1072
00:46:56.670 --> 00:47:00.100
The call, I think, needs to be
to stop the bombing,

1073
00:47:00.100 --> 00:47:03.920
stop the claim that somehow there
is a military solution here,

1074
00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:06.670
acknowledge there is
no military solution

1075
00:47:06.670 --> 00:47:10.560
and figure out
how to make the kind of massive

1076
00:47:10.560 --> 00:47:13.960
investment of high-profile time,

1077
00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:16.060
of money, of attention,

1078
00:47:16.060 --> 00:47:20.130
of all the things
into diplomacy, negotiations,

1079
00:47:20.130 --> 00:47:23.220
a new approach
that’s not going to be based

1080
00:47:23.220 --> 00:47:26.570
on the clearly false
assumption that somehow

1081
00:47:26.570 --> 00:47:28.450
this is a war
that can be won.

1082
00:47:28.450 --> 00:47:29.860
It cannot be won.

1083
00:47:29.860 --> 00:47:31.490
It has to be ended instead.

1084
00:47:32.500 --> 00:47:34.720
AMY GOODMAN: Let me end
on refugees, Alia.

1085
00:47:35.900 --> 00:47:38.890
The president, Trump,
not only as president,

1086
00:47:38.890 --> 00:47:40.210
but on the campaign,

1087
00:47:40.210 --> 00:47:42.200
repeatedly said he will

1088
00:47:42.200 --> 00:47:44.840
keep Syrian refugees
out of this country,

1089
00:47:44.840 --> 00:47:46.250
every last one.

1090
00:47:47.500 --> 00:47:50.160
What now?
What is happening now?

1091
00:47:50.160 --> 00:47:55.850
We just heard about
a Syrian activist, scholar,

1092
00:47:55.850 --> 00:47:57.310
with a French passport,

1093
00:47:57.310 --> 00:47:59.920
just denied coming into
the country in Washington,

1094
00:47:59.920 --> 00:48:03.500
even though the courts have said
you can’t institute this Muslim ban.

1095
00:48:03.500 --> 00:48:05.450
It’s not as if there’s not
a crackdown now

1096
00:48:05.450 --> 00:48:08.090
all over the world
around Muslims coming in,

1097
00:48:08.090 --> 00:48:09.910
and particularly Syrians.

1098
00:48:09.910 --> 00:48:11.170
ALIA MALEK: I don’t like
to predict the future,

1099
00:48:11.170 --> 00:48:12.700
but I don’t see
a massive change.

1100
00:48:12.700 --> 00:48:15.290
I think American
attention spans are short.

1101
00:48:15.290 --> 00:48:17.020
I don’t think this was
a real escalation.

1102
00:48:17.020 --> 00:48:18.590
I don’t—it doesn’t appear to me

1103
00:48:18.590 --> 00:48:20.550
that Trump—like everyone has said,

1104
00:48:20.550 --> 00:48:22.100
Trump clearly doesn’t care
about the Syrian people.

1105
00:48:22.100 --> 00:48:25.770
I’m not really sure he’s willing
to confront Russia in Syria

1106
00:48:25.770 --> 00:48:27.160
in a massive escalation.

1107
00:48:27.160 --> 00:48:29.950
I think this is sort of—I mean,
and I think even to call it

1108
00:48:29.950 --> 00:48:32.000
an emotional response
is quite generous.

1109
00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:34.320
You know, the Russians
were—had

1110
00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:36.170
cleared their people from the base.

1111
00:48:36.170 --> 00:48:38.630
The Syrians had cleared
their people from the base.

1112
00:48:38.630 --> 00:48:41.380
It was very—
AMY GOODMAN: The U.S. warned Russia.

1113
00:48:41.380 --> 00:48:43.850
ALIA MALEK: Yeah, so there was—it was
a highly orchestrated piece of theater.

1114
00:48:43.850 --> 00:48:45.560
That’s what it looks
like from now, for me.

1115
00:48:45.560 --> 00:48:48.760
So, I think that tomorrow
or the day after tomorrow,

1116
00:48:48.760 --> 00:48:50.260
something else he’s going
to be tweeting about,

1117
00:48:50.260 --> 00:48:51.480
or something else
is going to happen.

1118
00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:53.200
Attention spans
are going to move.

1119
00:48:53.200 --> 00:48:55.700
And of course he’s not going
to change his policy toward Syrians.

1120
00:48:55.700 --> 00:48:57.030
I don’t believe—you know,

1121
00:48:57.030 --> 00:48:58.500
look at what he has done as opposed

1122
00:48:58.500 --> 00:49:00.030
to what he said last night.

1123
00:49:00.030 --> 00:49:02.280
Do I believe that he is
really committed to Syrians

1124
00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:05.030
living in dignity and peace?
I don’t think so.

1125
00:49:05.030 --> 00:49:06.570
And it doesn’t serve
his—I mean,

1126
00:49:06.570 --> 00:49:08.310
rhetorically,
it doesn’t serve him.

1127
00:49:08.310 --> 00:49:10.230
AMY GOODMAN: And, Medea Benjamin,
Rex Tillerson

1128
00:49:10.230 --> 00:49:11.920
will be meeting
with the foreign minister,

1129
00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:14.960
Lavrov, of Russia on Tuesday.

1130
00:49:14.960 --> 00:49:18.540
Lavrov made a statement
condemning the attack,

1131
00:49:18.540 --> 00:49:21.840
but also left the door open
for a conversation.

1132
00:49:21.840 --> 00:49:23.180
Where do you think
this goes?

1133
00:49:24.020 --> 00:49:25.330
MEDEA BENJAMIN: Well,
where we want it to go

1134
00:49:25.330 --> 00:49:26.810
is to talk to the Russians not

1135
00:49:26.810 --> 00:49:30.290
about how to divvy up airspace
to continue killing Syrians,

1136
00:49:30.290 --> 00:49:32.500
but how to end this.

1137
00:49:32.500 --> 00:49:36.080
And let’s put it in the context
of President Trump

1138
00:49:36.080 --> 00:49:38.850
upping the ante by calling

1139
00:49:38.850 --> 00:49:41.550
for $54 billion
more in the U.S. budget

1140
00:49:41.550 --> 00:49:43.150
for the military.

1141
00:49:43.150 --> 00:49:47.030
The only ones benefiting from this
is Raytheon, Northrop Grumman,

1142
00:49:47.030 --> 00:49:48.800
the military-industrial complex.

1143
00:49:49.700 --> 00:49:53.360
Trump wants to widen wars in Syria.

1144
00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:57.100
He also wants to widen wars
in Iraq, in Yemen.

1145
00:49:57.100 --> 00:49:59.170
And I think we have to stop him

1146
00:49:59.170 --> 00:50:02.080
before he takes us down
a path of greater

1147
00:50:02.080 --> 00:50:04.710
and greater militarization
throughout the Middle East.

1148
00:50:04.710 --> 00:50:06.920
AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you
all for being with us.

1149
00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:08.950
In Lebanon, thank you
to Yazan al-Saadi,

1150
00:50:08.950 --> 00:50:10.970
Syrian-Canadian writer in Beirut;

1151
00:50:10.970 --> 00:50:12.700
Alia Malek, here in New York,

1152
00:50:12.700 --> 00:50:15.340
author of The Home
That Was Our Country:

1153
00:50:15.340 --> 00:50:16.880
A Memoir of Syria;

1154
00:50:17.420 --> 00:50:20.160
Phyllis Bennis, fellow at
the Institute for Policy Studies;

1155
00:50:20.160 --> 00:50:22.620
and Medea Benjamin, co-founder
of CodePink.

1156
00:50:22.620 --> 00:50:24.540
Thanks so much for being with us.

1157
00:50:24.540 --> 00:50:26.090
And thanks to Lina Sergie Attar,

1158
00:50:26.090 --> 00:50:28.060
who joined us earlier from Boston,

1159
00:50:28.060 --> 00:50:29.530
a writer from Aleppo,

1160
00:50:29.530 --> 00:50:31.560
co-founder of the Karam Foundation.

1161
00:50:31.560 --> 00:50:35.520
This is Democracy Now!
When we come back, the nuclear option.

1162
00:50:35.520 --> 00:50:37.450
No, we’re not talking about Syria.

1163
00:50:37.450 --> 00:50:41.850
We’re talking about choosing
a Supreme Court justice.

1164
00:50:41.850 --> 00:51:36.080
Stay with us.

1165
00:51:44.670 --> 00:51:46.110
AMY GOODMAN: We turn to Capitol Hill,

1166
00:51:46.110 --> 00:51:48.010
where senators
voted along party lines

1167
00:51:48.010 --> 00:51:50.020
Thursday for a historic rule change

1168
00:51:50.020 --> 00:51:51.850
that will allow
Supreme Court justices

1169
00:51:51.850 --> 00:51:53.970
to be confirmed
by a simple majority.

1170
00:51:53.970 --> 00:51:56.770
The 52-to-48 vote ended
a Democratic-led

1171
00:51:56.770 --> 00:51:59.710
filibuster aimed at blocking Neil
Gorsuch’s confirmation,

1172
00:51:59.710 --> 00:52:01.620
clearing the way
for a Senate vote today

1173
00:52:01.620 --> 00:52:03.760
on President Trump’s
pick for the Supreme Court.

1174
00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:06.130
Republican Senate Majority Leader
Mitch McConnell said

1175
00:52:06.130 --> 00:52:08.310
the move was necessary
to break a stalemate.

1176
00:52:08.310 --> 00:52:09.530
SEN. MITCH McCONNELL:

1177
00:52:09.530 --> 00:52:11.250
Judge Gorsuch is independent,

1178
00:52:12.560 --> 00:52:14.460
and he’s fair.

1179
00:52:14.460 --> 00:52:16.230
He’s beyond qualified,

1180
00:52:16.230 --> 00:52:19.770
and he will make a stellar
addition to the Supreme Court.

1181
00:52:21.830 --> 00:52:25.010
Hardly anyone in the legal community

1182
00:52:26.180 --> 00:52:27.430
seems to argue otherwise.

1183
00:52:28.910 --> 00:52:31.680
And yet, our Democratic colleagues

1184
00:52:31.680 --> 00:52:32.910
appear poised

1185
00:52:33.830 --> 00:52:36.200
to block this incredible nominee

1186
00:52:37.580 --> 00:52:41.210
with the first successful
partisan filibuster

1187
00:52:42.050 --> 00:52:44.050
in American history.

1188
00:52:45.080 --> 00:52:46.590
It would be a radical move,

1189
00:52:47.110 --> 00:52:49.170
something completely unprecedented

1190
00:52:50.180 --> 00:52:51.430
in the history
of our Senate.

1191
00:52:57.280 --> 00:52:59.600
AMY GOODMAN: McConnell’s comments
came more than a year

1192
00:52:59.600 --> 00:53:01.180
after he led
his Senate colleagues

1193
00:53:01.180 --> 00:53:02.910
on a campaign to refuse

1194
00:53:02.910 --> 00:53:04.840
to even consider
President Obama’s pick

1195
00:53:04.840 --> 00:53:06.460
for the Supreme Court,
Merrick Garland.

1196
00:53:06.460 --> 00:53:09.350
Democrats quickly condemned
the move by Republicans

1197
00:53:09.350 --> 00:53:11.740
to end the filibuster
in the Supreme Court confirmations,

1198
00:53:11.740 --> 00:53:12.990
the so-called nuclear option.

1199
00:53:12.990 --> 00:53:14.340
This is Senate Minority Leader

1200
00:53:14.340 --> 00:53:16.190
Democrat Chuck Schumer of New York.

1201
00:53:17.040 --> 00:53:20.710
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER: The nuclear option
means the end of a long history

1202
00:53:20.710 --> 00:53:24.240
of consensus
on Supreme Court nominations.

1203
00:53:24.240 --> 00:53:26.880
It weakens the standing
of the Senate as a whole,

1204
00:53:27.500 --> 00:53:29.880
as a check on
the president’s ability

1205
00:53:29.880 --> 00:53:31.980
to shape the judiciary.

1206
00:53:32.790 --> 00:53:34.880
In a post-nuclear world,

1207
00:53:34.880 --> 00:53:36.880
if the Senate and the presidency

1208
00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:38.690
are in the hands
of the same party,

1209
00:53:39.570 --> 00:53:42.500
there’s no incentive to even speak
to the Senate minority.

1210
00:53:43.560 --> 00:53:47.270
That’s a recipe for more conflict
and bad blood

1211
00:53:47.270 --> 00:53:50.010
between the parties, not less.

1212
00:53:50.700 --> 00:53:52.180
AMY GOODMAN: Neil Gorsuch is expected

1213
00:53:52.180 --> 00:53:53.700
to be confirmed
as a Supreme Court

1214
00:53:53.700 --> 00:53:55.590
justice in a final
Senate vote today,

1215
00:53:55.590 --> 00:53:57.470
replacing Justice Antonin Scalia

1216
00:53:57.470 --> 00:53:59.980
nearly 14 months
after Scalia’s death.

1217
00:53:59.980 --> 00:54:01.690
For more, we go to Washington, D.C.,

1218
00:54:01.690 --> 00:54:03.200
where we’re joined
by Ian Millhiser,

1219
00:54:03.200 --> 00:54:05.180
senior fellow at the Center
for American Progress

1220
00:54:05.180 --> 00:54:07.460
Action Fund, editor
of ThinkProgress Justice

1221
00:54:07.460 --> 00:54:09.630
and the author
of the book Injustices:

1222
00:54:09.630 --> 00:54:12.240
The Supreme Court’s History
of Comforting the Comfortable

1223
00:54:12.240 --> 00:54:14.780
and Afflicting the Afflicted.

1224
00:54:14.780 --> 00:54:16.560
Well, to say the least, Ian,

1225
00:54:16.560 --> 00:54:18.140
there’s not a lot of attention

1226
00:54:18.140 --> 00:54:19.410
outside of Washington—
IAN MILLHISER: Yeah.

1227
00:54:19.410 --> 00:54:22.500
AMY GOODMAN: —right now being paid
to what’s happening in Washington,

1228
00:54:22.500 --> 00:54:24.750
some concerned about
a nuclear option,

1229
00:54:24.750 --> 00:54:27.690
or a war in Syria
that could lead to that,

1230
00:54:27.690 --> 00:54:30.430
but not the nuclear option
in Washington, D.C.

1231
00:54:30.430 --> 00:54:32.640
At least it’s not getting
that kind of attention.

1232
00:54:32.640 --> 00:54:34.290
Explain what’s just happened.

1233
00:54:34.820 --> 00:54:36.790
IAN MILLHISER: Yeah, I mean,
so what happened is

1234
00:54:36.790 --> 00:54:39.650
that the Senate rules
were changed to allow this very,

1235
00:54:39.650 --> 00:54:41.160
very conservative judge

1236
00:54:41.160 --> 00:54:43.510
to get through on
a simple majority vote.

1237
00:54:44.460 --> 00:54:45.740
And it’s very sad.

1238
00:54:45.740 --> 00:54:47.200
I mean, I’m not necessarily
going to cry

1239
00:54:47.200 --> 00:54:49.250
over the demise of the filibuster,

1240
00:54:49.250 --> 00:54:51.170
but it’s very, very sad that this man

1241
00:54:51.170 --> 00:54:53.000
is going to be on the court.

1242
00:54:53.910 --> 00:54:55.960
Neil Gorsuch is someone
who’s likely to be

1243
00:54:55.960 --> 00:54:57.480
very hostile to voting rights,

1244
00:54:57.480 --> 00:54:59.480
very hostile to women’s rights,

1245
00:54:59.480 --> 00:55:02.360
very hostile to LGBT
rights on the court.

1246
00:55:02.360 --> 00:55:04.460
You know, to give you
just one example

1247
00:55:04.460 --> 00:55:06.490
of the sort of decisions
he’s handed down,

1248
00:55:06.490 --> 00:55:08.950
in the middle of his hearing,

1249
00:55:08.950 --> 00:55:11.300
he had, as a lower court judge,

1250
00:55:11.300 --> 00:55:13.240
written a decision that

1251
00:55:13.240 --> 00:55:17.440
severely hobbled a law
protecting disabled children.

1252
00:55:18.120 --> 00:55:20.140
And the Supreme Court unanimously

1253
00:55:20.140 --> 00:55:23.520
overruled him—in
the middle of his hearing.

1254
00:55:23.520 --> 00:55:27.140
So this is a guy who’s going to be
very, very far to the right.

1255
00:55:27.140 --> 00:55:28.710
I think that he takes, frankly,

1256
00:55:28.710 --> 00:55:32.230
a very cruel approach
to the law in many cases.

1257
00:55:32.230 --> 00:55:34.320
And now he’s going to be
the key fifth vote

1258
00:55:34.320 --> 00:55:36.290
on a lot of issues.

1259
00:55:36.290 --> 00:55:39.730
AMY GOODMAN: Now, Ian Millhiser,
talk about the significance

1260
00:55:39.730 --> 00:55:43.700
of the 60, versus 50, vote,

1261
00:55:43.700 --> 00:55:46.350
how unusual this is.

1262
00:55:46.950 --> 00:55:49.430
IAN MILLHISER: Yeah.
Well, I think what’s unusual here

1263
00:55:49.430 --> 00:55:52.380
is that typically presidents
don’t appoint someone

1264
00:55:52.380 --> 00:55:55.420
who is this far either
to the right or to the left.

1265
00:55:55.420 --> 00:55:56.660
I mean, typically,

1266
00:55:56.660 --> 00:55:58.290
presidents have picked someone

1267
00:55:58.290 --> 00:56:01.000
who are likely to form
most of a consensus.

1268
00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:03.940
I mean, Sonia Sotomayor
and Elena Kagan,

1269
00:56:03.940 --> 00:56:06.220
both of President
Obama’s nominees,

1270
00:56:06.220 --> 00:56:07.630
are liberals,

1271
00:56:08.490 --> 00:56:11.220
but they’re not—you know,
they’re not extremists.

1272
00:56:11.220 --> 00:56:13.150
And, I mean, even John
Roberts—John Roberts

1273
00:56:13.150 --> 00:56:16.100
isn’t someone that I would like
to see on the Supreme Court,

1274
00:56:16.100 --> 00:56:19.110
but Chief Justice Roberts,
President Bush’s first nominee,

1275
00:56:19.110 --> 00:56:22.300
has shown some ability
to moderate himself.

1276
00:56:22.300 --> 00:56:24.750
I don’t think we’re going
to see that out of Gorsuch.

1277
00:56:24.750 --> 00:56:27.260
I think that when you look
at his record,

1278
00:56:27.260 --> 00:56:30.290
he could potentially be as far to
the right as Justice Thomas,

1279
00:56:30.290 --> 00:56:34.240
who’s said that federal child
labor laws are unconstitutional.

1280
00:56:34.240 --> 00:56:37.470
So, I think what has happened here

1281
00:56:37.470 --> 00:56:38.900
is that this president

1282
00:56:38.900 --> 00:56:41.730
decided to push the envelope
as far as he could.

1283
00:56:41.730 --> 00:56:43.440
You know, there’s people
he could have named

1284
00:56:43.440 --> 00:56:45.000
who would have gotten 60 votes.

1285
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:46.960
He just decided he would rather

1286
00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:48.820
have this much more conservative guy.

1287
00:56:48.820 --> 00:56:52.010
And now here we are with
the rules change because of it.

1288
00:56:53.060 --> 00:56:55.400
AMY GOODMAN: So, when will he be seated?

1289
00:56:55.910 --> 00:57:00.880
On what decisions,
if he is voted in today,

1290
00:57:00.880 --> 00:57:02.170
will he be a part of?

1291
00:57:02.170 --> 00:57:04.500
For example, the Muslim ban?

1292
00:57:04.500 --> 00:57:06.390
IAN MILLHISER: Right.
I mean, the Muslim ban

1293
00:57:06.390 --> 00:57:08.350
could potentially be
the first major action

1294
00:57:08.350 --> 00:57:10.220
he takes as a Supreme Court justice.

1295
00:57:10.220 --> 00:57:12.470
I mean, that case, I believe,

1296
00:57:12.470 --> 00:57:14.520
is pending before the Ninth Circuit,

1297
00:57:15.070 --> 00:57:17.820
which is one step below
the Supreme Court.

1298
00:57:17.820 --> 00:57:20.550
Assuming that the Ninth Circuit upholds,

1299
00:57:20.550 --> 00:57:25.450
or, rather, leaves the decision
in place halting the ban,

1300
00:57:25.450 --> 00:57:26.950
then the Trump administration

1301
00:57:26.950 --> 00:57:29.260
is likely to go straight
to the Supreme Court

1302
00:57:29.260 --> 00:57:31.020
seeking an emergency stay.

1303
00:57:31.020 --> 00:57:33.630
And I think Gorsuch,
based on his record, at least,

1304
00:57:33.630 --> 00:57:36.330
is likely to be a vote
to grant that stay.

1305
00:57:36.330 --> 00:57:38.450
We’ve got a ton
of big cases coming up.

1306
00:57:38.450 --> 00:57:42.740
We’ve got a major—we’ve got
several major voter suppression cases,

1307
00:57:42.740 --> 00:57:46.140
including potentially
North Carolina’s omnibus

1308
00:57:46.140 --> 00:57:47.500
voter suppression law.

1309
00:57:47.500 --> 00:57:49.790
We’ve got a big challenge
to partisan gerrymandering,

1310
00:57:49.790 --> 00:57:52.740
where he’s likely to be a vote
in favor of gerrymandering.

1311
00:57:52.740 --> 00:57:55.070
We just had a case
out of the Seventh Circuit

1312
00:57:55.070 --> 00:57:58.870
saying that it is illegal
to fire someone

1313
00:57:58.870 --> 00:58:00.640
because they are gay.

1314
00:58:00.640 --> 00:58:04.160
Gorsuch is likely to be—is
likely to be a vote saying,

1315
00:58:04.160 --> 00:58:07.470
"Oh, no, no, it’s perfectly legal
to fire someone for that reason."

1316
00:58:08.290 --> 00:58:10.030
AMY GOODMAN: Ian, I want to thank you
for being with us,

1317
00:58:10.030 --> 00:58:12.490
ask you to stay so we can do a short
post-show interview.

1318
00:58:12.490 --> 00:58:14.380
We’ll put it at democracynow.org.

1319
00:58:14.380 --> 00:58:15.940
Ian Millhiser, senior fellow

1320
00:58:15.940 --> 00:58:17.560
at the Center
for American Progress

1321
00:58:17.560 --> 00:58:20.300
Action Fund, editor
of ThinkProgress Justice.

1322
00:58:20.300 --> 00:58:21.910
That does it for our show.

1323
00:58:21.910 --> 00:58:23.910
Happy birthday to Matt Ealy!

1324
00:58:23.910 --> 00:58:25.290
I’ll be speaking tonight
in Denver

1325
00:58:25.290 --> 00:58:27.440
at Su Teatro
Performing Arts Center.

1326
00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:29.350
Then, Saturday, I’ll be speaking

1327
00:58:29.350 --> 00:58:32.000
in Castlegar,
British Columbia, in Canada.

1328
00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:33.720
You can check our website

1329
00:58:33.720 --> 00:58:36.300
for details—that’s
at Selkirk College

1330
00:58:36.300 --> 00:58:39.100
in British Columbia—at
democracynow.org.