WEBVTT 00:00:15.220 --> 00:00:18.130 From Pacifica, this is Democracy Now! 00:00:21.930 --> 00:00:23.940 Look, people are in the streets. 00:00:23.940 --> 00:00:25.630 There are a million people in the streets. 00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:29.830 There are takeovers. There are checkpoints. 00:00:29.830 --> 00:00:31.100 There are demonstrations. 00:00:31.100 --> 00:00:32.920 People are also being killed, 00:00:32.920 --> 00:00:35.610 assassinated by the repressive apparatuses of the state. 00:00:36.460 --> 00:00:40.720 There is a massive protest of society 00:00:40.720 --> 00:00:42.870 because of the lack of transparency 00:00:42.870 --> 00:00:44.460 in the electoral system. 00:00:44.460 --> 00:00:47.920 The political crisis continues in Honduras as the government 00:00:47.920 --> 00:00:50.280 is still refusing to release the results 00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:53.440 of the November 26 presidential election 00:00:53.440 --> 00:00:57.230 that pit U.S.-backed President Juan Orlando Hernández 00:00:57.230 --> 00:01:00.370 against opposition candidate Salvador Nasralla. 00:01:00.370 --> 00:01:02.440 Massive protests erupted after 00:01:02.440 --> 00:01:04.390 the government-controlled electoral commission 00:01:04.390 --> 00:01:09.080 stopped tallying votes when the count showed Nasralla ahead. 00:01:09.080 --> 00:01:12.790 We’ll speak with former Honduran President Manuel Zelaya, 00:01:12.790 --> 00:01:16.310 who was ousted in a 2009 U.S.-backed coup. 00:01:16.310 --> 00:01:19.580 He now heads the opposition LIBRE party, 00:01:19.580 --> 00:01:23.070 part of the coalition Alliance Against the Dictatorship. 00:01:24.010 --> 00:01:26.200 There’s no democracy here. There’s no rule of law here. 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:27.680 We are suffering repression here. 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:28.940 People are being persecuted. 00:01:28.940 --> 00:01:30.950 There are human rights violations every day. 00:01:31.560 --> 00:01:34.840 Every day. There’s no due process. There’s nothing. 00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:36.650 Since the coup d’état, the United States has done 00:01:36.650 --> 00:01:38.290 what it wants with this country. 00:01:38.290 --> 00:01:39.680 They changed all the laws. 00:01:40.510 --> 00:01:43.200 President Zelaya, in a Democracy Now! 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:44.310 exclusive. 00:01:44.310 --> 00:01:47.490 Then, The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump: 00:01:47.490 --> 00:01:51.310 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Assess a President. 00:01:51.310 --> 00:01:53.690 We’ll speak with forensic psychiatrist 00:01:53.690 --> 00:01:55.630 Dr. Bandy Lee, 00:01:55.630 --> 00:01:59.300 organizer of the Yale Duty to Warn Conference. 00:01:59.300 --> 00:02:00.950 All that and more, coming up. 00:02:05.520 --> 00:02:08.130 Welcome to Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, 00:02:08.130 --> 00:02:10.130 The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. 00:02:10.650 --> 00:02:13.420 In California, nearly 200,000 people 00:02:13.420 --> 00:02:14.850 have been forced to evacuate 00:02:14.850 --> 00:02:18.820 as drought-fueled wildfires tear across Southern California. 00:02:18.820 --> 00:02:21.550 Climate experts say the intensity of the winter 00:02:21.550 --> 00:02:24.010 blazes is linked to climate change. 00:02:24.010 --> 00:02:26.450 The fires caused the intermittent shutdown 00:02:26.450 --> 00:02:28.850 of the 101 and 405 freeways. 00:02:28.850 --> 00:02:34.010 Nearly 150,000 acres have been scorched so far by the fires. 00:02:34.010 --> 00:02:36.400 Authorities have warned residents to stay inside 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:38.210 because of the dangerous air quality 00:02:38.210 --> 00:02:42.080 caused by smoke and cancerous ash from the fires. 00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:44.120 But a number of farms have stayed open, 00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:46.350 sparking concerns that farmworkers are laboring 00:02:46.350 --> 00:02:49.450 in hazardous conditions without proper equipment. 00:02:49.450 --> 00:02:53.050 On Wednesday, volunteers handing out free protective masks 00:02:53.050 --> 00:02:55.980 to farmworkers say they were kicked off some farms, 00:02:55.980 --> 00:02:58.500 despite the fact that the pickers were asking 00:02:58.500 --> 00:03:00.220 for the safety equipment. 00:03:01.010 --> 00:03:03.120 Tens of thousands of Palestinians 00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:04.360 protested in the West Bank 00:03:04.360 --> 00:03:07.170 and Gaza Strip following President Trump’s announcement 00:03:07.170 --> 00:03:09.770 he was recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital 00:03:09.770 --> 00:03:12.420 and initiating a process of moving the U.S. 00:03:12.420 --> 00:03:14.680 Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. 00:03:15.270 --> 00:03:18.320 Dozens of Palestinians were injured as Israeli 00:03:18.320 --> 00:03:20.800 soldiers cracked down on the protests. 00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:23.950 At least 16 protesters were hospitalized. 00:03:23.950 --> 00:03:26.860 Control of Jerusalem is one of the most contested issues 00:03:26.860 --> 00:03:29.170 between Israelis and Palestinians. 00:03:29.170 --> 00:03:32.140 The Israeli military seized control of East Jerusalem 00:03:32.140 --> 00:03:33.750 in 1967 00:03:33.750 --> 00:03:36.380 and has occupied the territory ever since. 00:03:36.380 --> 00:03:39.320 Palestinians, however, have long seen East Jerusalem 00:03:39.320 --> 00:03:41.730 as the capital of their future country. 00:03:41.730 --> 00:03:44.400 The U.N. Security Council is meeting today 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:46.800 to discuss President Trump’s announcement. 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:49.820 A top Palestinian official, Jibril Rajoub, 00:03:50.510 --> 00:03:53.010 has now said Vice President Mike Pence 00:03:53.010 --> 00:03:55.930 is not welcome to visit the Palestinian city 00:03:55.930 --> 00:03:57.760 of Bethlehem in the West Bank 00:03:57.760 --> 00:04:01.170 during Pence’s scheduled visit later this month. 00:04:02.220 --> 00:04:04.510 Democratic Senator Al Franken of Minnesota 00:04:04.510 --> 00:04:06.140 is resigning, after being accused 00:04:06.140 --> 00:04:08.160 by at least seven women of groping them 00:04:08.160 --> 00:04:10.720 or forcibly trying to kiss them without their consent. 00:04:10.720 --> 00:04:12.030 Sen. Al Franken: 00:04:12.030 --> 00:04:15.910 "Today, I am announcing that in the coming weeks 00:04:16.610 --> 00:04:20.590 I will be resigning as a member of the United States Senate. 00:04:22.710 --> 00:04:25.170 I, of all people, am aware 00:04:25.170 --> 00:04:26.780 that there is some irony 00:04:28.190 --> 00:04:30.580 in the fact that I am leaving, 00:04:31.520 --> 00:04:33.530 while a man who has bragged on tape 00:04:34.690 --> 00:04:37.270 about his history of sexual assault 00:04:37.270 --> 00:04:39.220 sits in the Oval Office 00:04:40.330 --> 00:04:44.920 and a man who has repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns 00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:49.060 for the Senate with the full support of his party. 00:04:51.690 --> 00:04:53.590 But this decision is not about me. 00:04:54.980 --> 00:04:56.570 It’s about the people of Minnesota." 00:04:57.070 --> 00:04:59.680 Minnesota Governor Mark Dayton is expected 00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:02.100 to appoint Lieutenant Governor Tina Smith 00:05:02.100 --> 00:05:04.010 to replace Senator Franken. 00:05:05.970 --> 00:05:08.920 Republican Arizona Congressmember Trent Franks 00:05:08.920 --> 00:05:10.440 has announced he’s also resigning, 00:05:10.440 --> 00:05:12.990 after learning the Congressional Ethics Committee 00:05:12.990 --> 00:05:15.350 was investigating him for sexual harassment. 00:05:15.350 --> 00:05:18.880 Multiple female staff members say Franks asked them 00:05:18.880 --> 00:05:21.290 if they would give birth to his children 00:05:21.290 --> 00:05:24.350 because he and his wife were having trouble conceiving. 00:05:24.350 --> 00:05:26.340 Franks is one of the most conservative members 00:05:26.340 --> 00:05:26.880 of Congress, 00:05:26.880 --> 00:05:30.440 part of Republicans’ far-right-wing Freedom Caucus. 00:05:30.440 --> 00:05:33.170 Meanwhile, Republican Utah Congressmember Mia Love 00:05:33.170 --> 00:05:35.540 is calling on her fellow Republican Congressmember 00:05:35.540 --> 00:05:39.230 Blake Farenthold of Texas to resign, following revelations 00:05:39.230 --> 00:05:41.830 he paid $84,000 of taxpayer money 00:05:41.830 --> 00:05:44.320 in a 2014 sexual harassment 00:05:44.320 --> 00:05:46.950 settlement with his former communications director, 00:05:46.950 --> 00:05:48.740 Lauren Greene. 00:05:48.740 --> 00:05:50.910 Former USA Gymnastics doctor 00:05:50.910 --> 00:05:54.050 Larry Nassar has been sentenced to 60 years in prison 00:05:54.050 --> 00:05:56.680 for possessing tens of thousands of images of child 00:05:56.680 --> 00:05:59.180 pornography, including images of infants. 00:05:59.180 --> 00:06:00.800 Nassar has also admitted 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:03.560 to sexually assaulting women and children, 00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:06.280 and is awaiting sentencing in two separate trials. 00:06:06.280 --> 00:06:08.010 Dozens of female athletes, 00:06:08.010 --> 00:06:11.350 including members of the U.S. Olympic gymnastics team, 00:06:11.350 --> 00:06:13.490 have accused him of penetrating their vaginas 00:06:13.490 --> 00:06:15.370 with his fingers and covering up the abuse 00:06:15.370 --> 00:06:18.450 by pretending it was part of a medical treatment. 00:06:19.080 --> 00:06:21.800 In Alabama, a number of African-American lawmakers 00:06:21.800 --> 00:06:23.620 are planning to campaign for Democratic 00:06:23.620 --> 00:06:25.540 Senate candidate Doug Jones, 00:06:25.540 --> 00:06:27.680 who is running against Republican candidate 00:06:27.680 --> 00:06:32.070 Roy Moore in the contentious December 12 election. 00:06:32.070 --> 00:06:34.650 Among those who are planning to campaign with Jones 00:06:34.650 --> 00:06:37.210 this weekend are New Jersey Senator Cory 00:06:37.210 --> 00:06:39.040 Booker, Alabama Congressmember Terri 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:40.980 Sewell, Georgia Congressmember 00:06:40.980 --> 00:06:42.890 John Lewis and former Massachusetts 00:06:42.890 --> 00:06:44.990 Democratic Governor Deval Patrick. 00:06:44.990 --> 00:06:47.210 Jones is in a close race against Roy Moore, 00:06:47.210 --> 00:06:50.800 who has been accused by at least nine women of sexually harassing 00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:53.150 or assaulting them when they were teenagers. 00:06:55.140 --> 00:06:58.160 Moore has been repeatedly endorsed by President Trump. 00:06:58.160 --> 00:07:01.410 Trump is holding a rally today in Pensacola, 00:07:01.410 --> 00:07:04.550 just four days before the special election. 00:07:04.550 --> 00:07:09.760 Pensacola is just 20 miles from the Alabama border, 00:07:09.760 --> 00:07:12.960 and it’s in the same media market as Mobile, Alabama. 00:07:19.090 --> 00:07:20.620 White former police officer 00:07:20.620 --> 00:07:24.180 Michael Slager has been sentenced to 20 years in prison 00:07:24.180 --> 00:07:26.290 for murdering unarmed black motorist 00:07:26.290 --> 00:07:29.010 Walter Scott in North Charleston, South Carolina, 00:07:29.010 --> 00:07:30.480 in 2015. 00:07:31.220 --> 00:07:32.590 Video footage shows 00:07:32.590 --> 00:07:36.410 Scott was unarmed and running away from Officer 00:07:36.410 --> 00:07:40.200 Slager when Slager opened fire, shooting 00:07:40.200 --> 00:07:43.650 Scott eight times in the back, killing him. 00:07:47.180 --> 00:07:48.580 An investigation by the Center 00:07:48.580 --> 00:07:50.740 for Investigative Journalism in Puerto Rico 00:07:50.740 --> 00:07:54.250 has revealed that nearly 1,000 more people died 00:07:54.250 --> 00:07:56.510 in the 40-day period after Hurricane Maria 00:07:56.510 --> 00:07:59.740 hit Puerto Rico compared to that same time period last year. 00:08:00.280 --> 00:08:02.760 These findings sharply contradict 00:08:02.760 --> 00:08:06.300 the September 20 storm’s official death toll of 62. 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:09.980 Meanwhile, nearly 90 percent of schools 00:08:09.980 --> 00:08:13.220 have reopened across the island, following protests 00:08:13.220 --> 00:08:15.250 and political pressure from parents. 00:08:15.250 --> 00:08:17.250 But parents whose children attend the schools 00:08:17.250 --> 00:08:18.970 that still remain closed are concerned 00:08:18.970 --> 00:08:20.220 they may never be reopened 00:08:20.220 --> 00:08:23.650 and that the storm may be used to further privatize education. 00:08:23.650 --> 00:08:26.260 Kelvin Coffie: "My name is Kelvin Coffie. 00:08:26.260 --> 00:08:29.310 I’m a father of a child with autism. 00:08:29.310 --> 00:08:32.410 And we are here right now at the Department 00:08:32.410 --> 00:08:35.520 of Public Education of Puerto Rico 00:08:38.750 --> 00:08:42.440 to see if we can resolve the issue 00:08:42.440 --> 00:08:48.210 with the school that my kid goes, that has been closed. 00:08:48.210 --> 00:08:51.490 And right now, we don’t have an answer why it has been closed, 00:08:52.540 --> 00:08:56.870 even though it didn’t have any structural damage." 00:08:56.870 --> 00:08:59.330 Protesters flooded the streets Thursday 00:08:59.330 --> 00:09:00.640 for a national day of action 00:09:00.640 --> 00:09:02.930 protesting the Federal Communications Commission 00:09:02.930 --> 00:09:05.450 plan to dismantle landmark regulations 00:09:05.450 --> 00:09:07.610 that ensure equal access to the internet. 00:09:08.130 --> 00:09:10.880 Protesters demanded the net neutrality rules 00:09:10.880 --> 00:09:12.350 stay in place at more than 00:09:12.350 --> 00:09:15.490 100 rallies coast to coast, including here in Manhattan. 00:09:15.490 --> 00:09:17.900 Ellen Skorka: "My name is Ellen Skorka. 00:09:17.900 --> 00:09:19.430 I’m from Manhattan. 00:09:19.430 --> 00:09:21.260 And I’m fighting for net neutrality, 00:09:21.260 --> 00:09:24.070 which will be voted on next week. 00:09:24.070 --> 00:09:27.220 And if the FCC gets their way, 00:09:28.300 --> 00:09:31.170 they will have more control over the internet, 00:09:31.170 --> 00:09:33.200 it will cost everyone more, 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:37.190 and the only one who benefits will be big business. 00:09:37.190 --> 00:09:40.530 It will hurt small businesses; it will hurt individuals. 00:09:40.530 --> 00:09:43.150 And once again, the Trump administration 00:09:43.150 --> 00:09:45.330 is helping the top 1 percent 00:09:45.330 --> 00:09:47.590 and the corporations and hurting everybody else." 00:09:47.590 --> 00:09:50.290 Two African-American Democratic congressmembers, 00:09:50.290 --> 00:09:52.960 John Lewis of Georgia and Bennie Thompson of Mississippi, 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:55.460 say they will not attend the opening 00:09:55.460 --> 00:09:57.280 of a new civil rights museum in Jackson, 00:09:57.280 --> 00:10:00.050 Mississippi, in protest of President Trump’s 00:10:00.050 --> 00:10:01.990 planned attendance Saturday. 00:10:01.990 --> 00:10:03.790 In a joint statement, the lawmakers said, 00:10:04.420 --> 00:10:07.550 "President Trump’s disparaging comments about women, 00:10:07.550 --> 00:10:11.570 the disabled, immigrants, and National Football League players 00:10:11.570 --> 00:10:14.230 disrespect the efforts of Fannie Lou Hamer, 00:10:14.230 --> 00:10:16.490 Aaron Henry, Medgar Evers, Robert Clark, 00:10:16.490 --> 00:10:18.860 James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, Michael Schwerner, 00:10:18.860 --> 00:10:22.630 and countless others who have given their all for Mississippi 00:10:22.630 --> 00:10:24.350 to be a better place." 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:32.110 In New York City, hundreds of people 00:10:32.110 --> 00:10:34.310 rallied outside the Brooklyn courthouse Thursday 00:10:34.310 --> 00:10:38.410 to demand courtrooms prohibit undercover immigration agents 00:10:38.410 --> 00:10:41.510 from arresting people at or in the vicinity of courthouses. 00:10:41.510 --> 00:10:43.420 Luis Mancheno: "My name is Luis Mancheno, 00:10:43.420 --> 00:10:45.830 and I am an immigration attorney at the Bronx Defenders, 00:10:45.830 --> 00:10:48.410 and I am also a member of the 5 Boro Defenders 00:10:48.410 --> 00:10:49.830 here in New York City. 00:10:49.830 --> 00:10:52.330 I’m here today because I’m joining 00:10:52.330 --> 00:10:54.820 all the public defenders here in our city 00:10:54.820 --> 00:11:00.500 to demand that our city courts and our courts in our state 00:11:00.500 --> 00:11:02.990 are free from the presence of ICE, 00:11:03.810 --> 00:11:06.760 because what’s happening right now is that during this year 00:11:07.270 --> 00:11:09.270 ICE has been arresting, 00:11:09.270 --> 00:11:11.200 in really, really high numbers, 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:13.790 a lot of the clients that we represent in court. 00:11:13.790 --> 00:11:17.900 And the fact is that the immigrant community here 00:11:17.900 --> 00:11:18.940 in New York 00:11:18.940 --> 00:11:23.250 no longer has the trust that they need to have in order 00:11:23.250 --> 00:11:25.000 to be able to access justice in court." 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:27.870 In California, advertisers are pulling their business 00:11:27.870 --> 00:11:31.310 with the award-winning alternative newspaper LA Weekly, 00:11:31.830 --> 00:11:34.890 after it was bought by a shadowy group of male investors, 00:11:34.890 --> 00:11:37.160 who fired every editor 00:11:37.160 --> 00:11:40.840 and all but one writer on staff last week. 00:11:40.840 --> 00:11:42.650 The LA Weekly is a long-running, 00:11:42.650 --> 00:11:44.550 left-leaning newspaper in Los Angeles. 00:11:44.550 --> 00:11:47.260 But the new owners, who refused to even reveal themselves 00:11:47.260 --> 00:11:48.720 at the time of the mass firing, 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:51.380 are conservative investors based in Orange County, 00:11:51.380 --> 00:11:54.220 some of whom have donated heavily to the Republican Party. 00:11:54.780 --> 00:11:56.850 And football player Colin Kaepernick 00:11:56.850 --> 00:11:58.230 accepted the Puffin/Nation 00:11:58.230 --> 00:12:00.570 Prize for Creative Citizenship Tuesday night, 00:12:00.570 --> 00:12:02.780 for having sparked a movement against racism 00:12:02.780 --> 00:12:05.300 and police brutality across the NFL 00:12:06.210 --> 00:12:08.900 after refusing to stand for the national anthem 00:12:08.900 --> 00:12:10.870 before NFL games. 00:12:10.870 --> 00:12:12.660 Colin Kaepernick: "I would like to say, 00:12:12.660 --> 00:12:13.860 at this point in time, 00:12:13.860 --> 00:12:17.830 with freedom of speech and freedom of press 00:12:17.830 --> 00:12:21.560 being under attack in so many ways, in so many forms, 00:12:22.170 --> 00:12:24.850 The Nation Institute and the work that journalists 00:12:24.850 --> 00:12:26.430 and reporters are doing right now 00:12:27.130 --> 00:12:28.830 is more important than it ever has been. 00:12:29.820 --> 00:12:32.360 You truly are the pathway for the people 00:12:32.360 --> 00:12:33.930 to see the truth that’s going on. 00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:39.220 So, in this moment of time, my message to all of you is: 00:12:39.220 --> 00:12:41.480 Continue to speak just in an unjust room, 00:12:42.020 --> 00:12:43.700 regardless of the consequences, 00:12:43.700 --> 00:12:45.260 regardless of the backlash. 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:47.510 We’re with you. We need that truth. 00:12:47.510 --> 00:12:50.050 And continue to spread that truth for us, 00:12:50.050 --> 00:12:53.000 because people need to know what’s truly going on, 00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:54.400 so we can game plan as far 00:12:54.400 --> 00:12:57.140 as how to fight against these oppressive forces." 00:13:03.660 --> 00:13:05.850 And those are some of the headlines this is Democracy Now, 00:13:05.850 --> 00:13:08.590 Democracynow.org, the War and Peace Report. 00:13:08.590 --> 00:13:09.990 I’m Amy Goodman. 00:13:09.990 --> 00:13:11.740 AMY GOODMAN: In Honduras, the political crisis 00:13:11.740 --> 00:13:13.000 continues as the government 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:15.960 is still refusing to release the results of the November 00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:17.780 26 presidential election, 00:13:17.780 --> 00:13:19.650 held almost two weeks ago. 00:13:19.650 --> 00:13:23.370 The election pits U.S.-backed President Juan Orlando Hernández 00:13:23.370 --> 00:13:25.860 against opposition candidate Salvador Nasralla, 00:13:26.420 --> 00:13:29.660 head of the National Alliance Against the Dictatorship. 00:13:29.660 --> 00:13:32.250 Massive protests erupted over the weekend, 00:13:32.250 --> 00:13:35.210 after the government-controlled electoral commission 00:13:35.210 --> 00:13:37.710 stopped tallying votes 00:13:37.710 --> 00:13:40.580 when the count showed Nasralla ahead of Hernández 00:13:40.580 --> 00:13:42.540 by more than 5 percentage points. 00:13:42.540 --> 00:13:44.450 After the delay, the electoral commission 00:13:44.450 --> 00:13:46.730 then claimed Hernández was ahead, 00:13:46.730 --> 00:13:50.230 sparking protests in which as many as 11 people were killed 00:13:50.230 --> 00:13:52.620 and more than 1,200 detained. 00:13:53.220 --> 00:13:54.170 Earlier this week, 00:13:54.170 --> 00:13:56.980 the Honduran police mutinied against the government, 00:13:56.980 --> 00:14:00.390 saying they would no longer enforce a curfew 00:14:00.390 --> 00:14:02.820 and crackdown against protesters. 00:14:03.540 --> 00:14:06.590 Well, on Wednesday, in a Democracy Now! 00:14:06.590 --> 00:14:10.710 exclusive, I spoke with President Manuel Zelaya. 00:14:10.710 --> 00:14:14.320 He was president of Honduras from 2006 to 2009, 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:17.340 before he was ousted in a U.S.-backed coup 00:14:17.340 --> 00:14:19.550 on June 28th, 2009. 00:14:19.550 --> 00:14:21.890 He’s now head of the opposition LIBRE party, 00:14:21.890 --> 00:14:24.980 part of the coalition of the Alliance 00:14:24.980 --> 00:14:28.410 Against the Dictatorship, which is led by the opposition 00:14:28.410 --> 00:14:30.710 presidential candidate Salvador Nasralla. 00:14:31.230 --> 00:14:33.310 We spoke via Democracy Now! 00:14:33.310 --> 00:14:35.150 video stream. 00:14:35.150 --> 00:14:38.040 President Zelaya was in Tegucigalpa. 00:14:38.040 --> 00:14:39.520 I began by asking him 00:14:39.520 --> 00:14:41.130 to describe the situation 00:14:41.130 --> 00:14:42.730 in Honduras right now. 00:14:42.730 --> 00:14:48.630 MANUEL ZELAYA: [translated] Look, people are in the streets. 00:14:48.630 --> 00:14:50.380 There are a million people in the streets. 00:14:52.020 --> 00:14:54.590 There are takeovers. There are checkpoints. 00:14:54.590 --> 00:14:55.870 There are demonstrations. 00:14:55.870 --> 00:14:57.660 People are also being killed, 00:14:57.660 --> 00:15:00.360 assassinated by the repressive apparatuses of the state. 00:15:01.220 --> 00:15:05.430 There is a massive protest of society 00:15:05.430 --> 00:15:07.630 because of the lack of transparency 00:15:07.630 --> 00:15:09.640 in the electoral system. 00:15:09.640 --> 00:15:15.930 Today, we are calling our candidate, 00:15:15.930 --> 00:15:18.730 who is now president-elect—we are calling 00:15:18.730 --> 00:15:21.400 for a count of all polling places. 00:15:21.400 --> 00:15:23.140 There are only 18,000 polling places. 00:15:23.140 --> 00:15:24.270 It’s not such a large number. 00:15:24.270 --> 00:15:26.050 That can be done in a matter of four days. 00:15:26.670 --> 00:15:29.740 So that the people can regain calm, 00:15:33.680 --> 00:15:37.430 because based on the data that the state itself put out, 00:15:37.430 --> 00:15:39.320 the Supreme Electoral Tribunal, 00:15:40.130 --> 00:15:42.370 the Alliance of Opposition 00:15:42.370 --> 00:15:46.230 Against the Dictatorship, on the day of the election, 00:15:46.230 --> 00:15:50.540 the tribunal said that we had a 5 percent lead, 00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:54.870 with 71 percent of the votes counted. 00:15:58.390 --> 00:16:01.880 They said, with 57 percent counted, 00:16:02.450 --> 00:16:05.830 the alliance already had a 5 percent advantage, 00:16:05.830 --> 00:16:07.640 and then, with 71 percent counted, 00:16:07.640 --> 00:16:12.340 the 5 percent trend was maintained—71 percent. 00:16:12.340 --> 00:16:14.540 It was a 5 percent lead and growing. 00:16:16.810 --> 00:16:19.390 Then, the system went down for three days. 00:16:22.800 --> 00:16:25.600 They say that the server was overloaded. 00:16:26.330 --> 00:16:29.220 That’s like putting three needles into a room. 00:16:29.220 --> 00:16:33.940 How is a server going to be overloaded with so little data. 00:16:33.940 --> 00:16:38.640 The server can take billions and billions of pieces of data. 00:16:38.640 --> 00:16:43.360 So, three days, it was the—the vote count was stopped. 00:16:44.750 --> 00:16:46.970 And then there was a change in service, in the server. 00:16:47.890 --> 00:16:50.410 And we were told that they had reset, 00:16:50.410 --> 00:16:52.630 when we asked for the backup, and it was all lost. 00:16:52.630 --> 00:16:54.740 And then it was resumed, and we’re told, 00:16:54.740 --> 00:16:56.720 with 29 percent of the vote left to be counted, 00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:57.720 that we were losing. 00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:01.090 And so people were indignant, felt bothered. 00:17:02.390 --> 00:17:06.130 And we resent the fact that the United States 00:17:06.130 --> 00:17:10.000 has this duplicitous discourse with respect to Honduras. 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:11.960 They control the country. I was the president. 00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:14.620 They control the media, the private enterprise, 00:17:14.620 --> 00:17:16.620 the churches, the military. 00:17:16.620 --> 00:17:18.620 And they are silent. 00:17:20.170 --> 00:17:23.200 It’s very striking that there’s a twofold discourse, 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:24.240 a duplicitous discourse, 00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:25.930 here on the part of the State Department. 00:17:26.430 --> 00:17:28.410 AMY GOODMAN: President Zelaya, what are you calling 00:17:28.410 --> 00:17:30.410 for right now? 00:17:30.410 --> 00:17:34.250 MANUEL ZELAYA: [translated] At this time, 00:17:34.250 --> 00:17:35.640 we are asking for two things. 00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:38.880 First, for people to stay firm and stay in the streets, 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:42.600 because if we don’t defend what we’ve won at the polls 00:17:42.600 --> 00:17:45.680 in the streets—the Honduran institutions 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:47.670 have been coopted from the coup d’état to date. 00:17:47.670 --> 00:17:49.850 There’s no democracy here. There’s no rule of law here. 00:17:49.850 --> 00:17:51.330 We are suffering repression here. 00:17:51.330 --> 00:17:52.590 People are being persecuted. 00:17:52.590 --> 00:17:54.600 There are human rights violations every day. 00:17:55.220 --> 00:17:58.490 Every day. There’s no due process. There’s nothing. 00:17:58.490 --> 00:18:00.300 Since the coup d’état, the United States has done 00:18:00.300 --> 00:18:01.940 what it wants with this country. 00:18:01.940 --> 00:18:03.330 They changed all the laws. 00:18:03.930 --> 00:18:09.770 This is a military state, with laws like Plan Colombia, 00:18:09.770 --> 00:18:12.620 like the laws in Iraq and Afghanistan. 00:18:12.620 --> 00:18:14.230 That is what’s happening in Honduras. 00:18:15.080 --> 00:18:17.560 And they’ve done away with guarantees and with respect. 00:18:17.560 --> 00:18:20.590 What’s being done in this country is unjust. 00:18:20.590 --> 00:18:21.820 We are calling for people 00:18:21.820 --> 00:18:24.400 to defend themselves in the streets, 00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:28.110 so that what we won at the polls, we defend in the streets. 00:18:28.110 --> 00:18:32.520 And second, the little bit of institutional framework 00:18:33.210 --> 00:18:34.600 that the state 00:18:34.600 --> 00:18:39.640 has—well, the OAS is calling for this, the European Union. 00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:42.990 Let’s count the 18,000 polling places. 00:18:42.990 --> 00:18:49.790 They say let’s count or let’s review the reports on the votes. 00:18:49.790 --> 00:18:50.990 But that’s manipulated. 00:18:50.990 --> 00:18:53.340 Let’s actually look at the votes. 00:18:54.340 --> 00:18:56.560 Let’s see where the voters signed. 00:18:56.560 --> 00:18:57.940 And let’s see if the signatures 00:18:57.940 --> 00:19:00.010 on the reports of the votes coincide 00:19:00.010 --> 00:19:01.730 with what’s on the actual vote. 00:19:01.730 --> 00:19:06.950 We’re asking for something— this is a very sensitive demand. 00:19:06.950 --> 00:19:09.350 And we think that the international community 00:19:09.350 --> 00:19:11.370 should support democracy in Honduras. 00:19:11.370 --> 00:19:13.300 We want peace in Honduras. 00:19:13.300 --> 00:19:17.520 AMY GOODMAN: Are you calling for a full recount 00:19:17.520 --> 00:19:18.740 or a new election? 00:19:18.740 --> 00:19:24.710 MANUEL ZELAYA: [translated] We know 00:19:24.710 --> 00:19:28.190 that Salvador Nasralla won the election. 00:19:28.190 --> 00:19:31.160 Salvador Nasralla, in a matter of six months. 00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:33.640 We had an alliance with the LIBRE party, 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:36.890 which was founded after the coup d’état. 00:19:36.890 --> 00:19:39.000 We entered into an alliance with him. 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:41.990 He’s practically a TV personality 00:19:41.990 --> 00:19:43.260 and sports journalist. 00:19:43.260 --> 00:19:46.510 And in a matter of six months—with happiness, 00:19:46.510 --> 00:19:52.920 dancing in all of the towns, with music—he won the elections. 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:54.330 We won. 00:19:54.950 --> 00:19:58.380 We defeated 130 years of bipartisan rule in Honduras. 00:19:58.380 --> 00:19:59.560 We defeated them. 00:19:59.560 --> 00:20:03.680 The people defeated them, because of the poverty, 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:05.010 the misery and the violence. 00:20:05.010 --> 00:20:08.550 The people cannot put up with it anymore. 00:20:08.550 --> 00:20:09.790 So, the elections were won. 00:20:10.380 --> 00:20:12.310 They recognized it the day of the elections. 00:20:12.310 --> 00:20:14.410 It was in the press worldwide 00:20:14.410 --> 00:20:16.080 that the alliance had won the election. 00:20:18.560 --> 00:20:20.860 And today, silence. 00:20:22.060 --> 00:20:26.900 Let’s hear the voice of the church, the voice the military. 00:20:26.900 --> 00:20:28.640 Well, they react only when the United States 00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:29.980 gives them the order. 00:20:29.980 --> 00:20:32.560 AMY GOODMAN: President Zelaya, the U.S. State Department 00:20:32.560 --> 00:20:35.730 certified the Honduran government 00:20:35.730 --> 00:20:37.120 has been fighting corruption 00:20:37.120 --> 00:20:39.280 and supporting human rights, 00:20:39.280 --> 00:20:40.980 clearing the way for Honduras 00:20:40.980 --> 00:20:44.130 to receive millions of dollars in U.S. aid. 00:20:45.320 --> 00:20:48.170 This came just a few days 00:20:48.170 --> 00:20:50.010 after the election 00:20:50.010 --> 00:20:52.400 took place on November 26th, 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:54.430 in the midst of the dispute. 00:20:54.430 --> 00:20:56.770 Can you talk about the significance of this? 00:20:56.770 --> 00:20:58.400 MANUEL ZELAYA: [translated] Well, one month ago, 00:20:58.400 --> 00:20:59.800 the United Nations in Geneva, 00:20:59.800 --> 00:21:00.690 which looks out for human rights, 00:21:00.690 --> 00:21:02.380 directly introduced Honduras in the list of countries 00:21:02.380 --> 00:21:03.160 that violate human rights. 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:05.420 One month ago, the United Nations organization in Geneva 00:21:05.420 --> 00:21:08.190 that looks out for human rights involved Honduras 00:21:08.980 --> 00:21:12.840 and put it directly on the list of countries 00:21:12.840 --> 00:21:14.780 that violate human rights. 00:21:14.780 --> 00:21:18.010 Just one year ago, they assassinated Berta Cáceres, 00:21:18.010 --> 00:21:21.050 a defender of nature, a defender of the rivers. 00:21:21.050 --> 00:21:23.250 They went to assassinate her. 00:21:23.250 --> 00:21:27.010 And the indicia indicate that the masterminds of this crime 00:21:27.010 --> 00:21:28.830 are being protected by the state. 00:21:28.830 --> 00:21:30.400 Nonetheless, the State Department 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:31.770 comes out with these things. 00:21:31.770 --> 00:21:35.650 The State Department is a very political organization. 00:21:36.340 --> 00:21:38.490 They protect the dictators who are their friends. 00:21:39.310 --> 00:21:43.640 Nonetheless, in Honduras, it has been clear—well, 00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:44.990 in the last six months, 00:21:44.990 --> 00:21:47.640 there’s not been an ambassador of the United States. 00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:49.690 The ambassador of the United States is like a governor. 00:21:50.980 --> 00:21:53.800 It’s like a state that is under the dollar. 00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:57.040 And we find it shameful that the State Department 00:21:57.040 --> 00:21:57.830 is so indifferent 00:21:57.830 --> 00:22:00.210 to the Honduran people, who are suffering. 00:22:00.210 --> 00:22:01.970 There have been 12 assassinations 00:22:01.970 --> 00:22:03.430 in the last 48 hours. 00:22:03.430 --> 00:22:05.470 We’re under a state of siege. 00:22:05.470 --> 00:22:07.170 You know, they’ve declared a state of siege 00:22:07.800 --> 00:22:08.960 against the protests. 00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:12.030 They are counting the votes under a state of siege, 00:22:12.970 --> 00:22:15.780 with a military highly repressive state in Honduras. 00:22:17.080 --> 00:22:20.610 AMY GOODMAN: What is the United States doing behind the scenes, 00:22:20.610 --> 00:22:22.610 President Zelaya? 00:22:22.610 --> 00:22:27.850 MANUEL ZELAYA: [translated] They want to leave the dictator in, 00:22:27.850 --> 00:22:30.060 endorsing a fraud, endorsing a dictator. 00:22:30.060 --> 00:22:31.470 AMY GOODMAN: And what is it doing? How do you know that? 00:22:31.470 --> 00:22:34.090 What is it doing to ensure that? 00:22:34.090 --> 00:22:38.590 MANUEL ZELAYA: [translated] The Organization of American States 00:22:38.590 --> 00:22:44.590 put out a report yesterday, which is mostly satisfactory, 00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:51.550 about how the operational side of the elections are being held. 00:22:52.890 --> 00:22:57.270 And the OAS—well, 00:22:57.270 --> 00:23:00.420 this is a report that must be analyzed 00:23:00.420 --> 00:23:01.660 with the State Department, as well. 00:23:02.290 --> 00:23:09.550 And they say clearly that the OAS cannot consider 00:23:09.550 --> 00:23:12.100 the results of the—put out by the election tribunal, 00:23:12.100 --> 00:23:13.730 to be reliable. 00:23:13.730 --> 00:23:15.770 They’re saying that the current president 00:23:17.340 --> 00:23:20.460 is being illegally re-elected. 00:23:20.460 --> 00:23:22.130 They’ve violated the Constitution. 00:23:22.130 --> 00:23:24.090 They’ve assaulted the institutions of the state. 00:23:24.770 --> 00:23:25.930 They carried out a fraud. 00:23:25.930 --> 00:23:28.570 They did not want to carry out the national election census. 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:33.120 And now, since they were not able to win at the ballot box, 00:23:33.120 --> 00:23:36.040 they’re now manipulating the system, the count system. 00:23:37.660 --> 00:23:41.110 The OAS already put out a report that we find very satisfactory. 00:23:42.420 --> 00:23:46.060 Based on that report, today we will be presenting challenges 00:23:46.670 --> 00:23:48.750 to the election. 00:23:48.750 --> 00:23:52.140 We will be calling for a general count of all the votes. 00:23:52.810 --> 00:23:54.470 Now, if the State Department 00:23:54.470 --> 00:23:55.870 would like to rectify its position, 00:23:55.870 --> 00:23:57.250 it should go along with us in this, 00:23:57.250 --> 00:23:58.650 that there should be a count. 00:23:58.650 --> 00:24:00.120 If the current president won, 00:24:00.120 --> 00:24:01.630 what’s the problem with having a recount? 00:24:02.610 --> 00:24:05.190 If they say he won, well, Mr. President, let’s have a count. 00:24:05.980 --> 00:24:07.700 You or the United States, let us look. 00:24:08.350 --> 00:24:10.730 Let’s have a count in Europe. Let’s have a count. 00:24:10.730 --> 00:24:12.230 What’s the problem? 00:24:12.230 --> 00:24:15.340 If the electoral tribunal says that you won—well, 00:24:15.340 --> 00:24:16.590 they’re all employees of the 00:24:16.590 --> 00:24:19.470 presidency—let’s have a public count, 00:24:19.470 --> 00:24:21.500 in front of cameras and television 00:24:21.500 --> 00:24:23.050 and international organizations. 00:24:24.140 --> 00:24:26.560 The three parties that participated, 00:24:28.180 --> 00:24:30.110 the main parties, let’s be there. 00:24:30.110 --> 00:24:32.250 And they say everything is transparent. 00:24:32.250 --> 00:24:34.250 I would hope it would be. 00:24:35.270 --> 00:24:37.910 And I would hope that that can happen in coming hours. 00:24:37.910 --> 00:24:39.510 AMY GOODMAN: That’s former Honduran President 00:24:39.510 --> 00:24:40.420 Manuel Zelaya, 00:24:40.420 --> 00:24:42.820 ousted in 2009 in a U.S.-backed coup. 00:24:42.820 --> 00:24:45.570 We’ll be back with our exclusive interview with him, 00:24:45.570 --> 00:24:48.940 and then we’ll talk about The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump: 00:24:48.940 --> 00:24:52.590 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Assessing a President. 00:24:52.590 --> 00:24:54.590 Stay with us. 00:24:54.590 --> 00:25:44.450 [break] 00:25:44.450 --> 00:25:46.990 AMY GOODMAN: Honduran band Café Guancasco, 00:25:46.990 --> 00:25:50.000 one of the most politically outspoken bands in Honduras. 00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:51.970 After the 2009 U.S.-backed coup, 00:25:51.970 --> 00:25:54.310 they became known as the "Band of the Resistance." 00:25:54.310 --> 00:25:55.630 This is Democracy Now! 00:25:55.630 --> 00:25:57.990 I’m Amy Goodman, as we return to Democracy 00:25:57.990 --> 00:25:59.650 Now!'s exclusive interview 00:25:59.650 --> 00:26:02.100 with the former Honduran President Manuel Zelaya, 00:26:02.100 --> 00:26:05.090 ousted in the 2009 U.S.-backed coup. 00:26:05.090 --> 00:26:07.100 The political crisis in Honduras today 00:26:07.100 --> 00:26:10.570 is continuing as the government still refuses to release 00:26:10.570 --> 00:26:14.470 the results of the November 26 presidential election, 00:26:14.470 --> 00:26:18.470 that pit the U.S.-backed President Juan Orlando Hernández 00:26:18.470 --> 00:26:22.060 against the opposition candidate Salvador Nasralla, 00:26:22.060 --> 00:26:24.480 head of the Alliance Against the Dictatorship. 00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:26.590 Massive protests erupted over the weekend, 00:26:26.590 --> 00:26:28.580 after the government-controlled electoral commission 00:26:28.580 --> 00:26:30.200 stopped tallying votes 00:26:30.200 --> 00:26:31.920 when the count showed Nasralla 00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:33.860 ahead of Hernández. 00:26:33.860 --> 00:26:37.120 I asked President Zelaya whether he's suggesting the U.S. 00:26:37.120 --> 00:26:39.790 is still running the show right now in Honduras. 00:26:39.790 --> 00:26:46.220 MANUEL ZELAYA: [translated] I have no doubt about it, Amy. 00:26:48.460 --> 00:26:49.550 And you know why? 00:26:49.550 --> 00:26:51.350 Because I was president of the country, 00:26:52.150 --> 00:26:55.080 and they tried to run everything. 00:26:55.080 --> 00:26:57.650 And their opposition is what took me out of power. 00:26:58.260 --> 00:27:04.070 The coup d’état against me 00:27:04.070 --> 00:27:05.860 was planned in Miami 00:27:05.860 --> 00:27:07.610 at the Southern Command. 00:27:07.610 --> 00:27:11.630 So I know, here, they run the churches—not all of them, 00:27:11.630 --> 00:27:14.310 not all of the pastors or all of the priests, 00:27:14.310 --> 00:27:15.760 but the main heads. 00:27:15.760 --> 00:27:19.080 They finance the main churches, evangelical churches, 00:27:19.080 --> 00:27:20.810 as well—not all of them, but most of them. 00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:30.090 They run the large owners of the media corporations. 00:27:30.090 --> 00:27:32.650 They feed them a line, day after day. 00:27:35.600 --> 00:27:38.090 And the military obey them, 00:27:38.090 --> 00:27:39.320 because they were trained by them 00:27:39.320 --> 00:27:40.450 at the School of the Americas. 00:27:40.450 --> 00:27:41.730 It now has another name, 00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:44.730 but the graduates are throughout Latin America. 00:27:46.490 --> 00:27:48.960 The private business—well, 00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:50.290 if you’re going to be a businessperson 00:27:50.290 --> 00:27:51.330 and make money in Honduras, 00:27:51.330 --> 00:27:52.720 you need to export to the United States, 00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:54.230 and so you have to have a good relationship, 00:27:54.230 --> 00:27:56.330 you have to have a visa. 00:27:56.330 --> 00:27:58.020 So, anything the United States says 00:27:58.020 --> 00:28:00.060 is the law for the private sector here. 00:28:01.120 --> 00:28:03.930 If they say, "Go into the abyssum," they will. 00:28:03.930 --> 00:28:05.530 That’s how the history of this country has been. 00:28:05.530 --> 00:28:07.730 They run the transnationals, private sector, 00:28:07.730 --> 00:28:09.280 the churches, 00:28:09.280 --> 00:28:14.950 the major media—not just here, around the world. 00:28:14.950 --> 00:28:18.480 The major media conglomerates answer to the U.S. line. 00:28:19.150 --> 00:28:21.810 And that is why it’s necessary for them to reflect 00:28:21.810 --> 00:28:24.770 upon the harm that they’re doing to a small country like this. 00:28:24.770 --> 00:28:26.450 It’s incredible. 00:28:26.450 --> 00:28:28.970 But they’re not going to be able to govern here. 00:28:29.500 --> 00:28:32.090 If Juan Orlando is imposed in the next four years, 00:28:32.090 --> 00:28:33.220 they’re not going to be able to govern. 00:28:33.220 --> 00:28:34.950 The people will be in the streets. 00:28:34.950 --> 00:28:38.270 Everyone is shouting "Fuera JOH," which means, 00:28:38.270 --> 00:28:41.830 "Out, [Juan] Orlando Hernández," the president. 00:28:41.830 --> 00:28:43.940 AMY GOODMAN: Has the United States reached out 00:28:43.940 --> 00:28:45.710 to Salvador Nasralla? 00:28:45.710 --> 00:28:48.670 Has he been speaking to the U.S. government? 00:28:48.670 --> 00:28:52.290 MANUEL ZELAYA: [translated] Yes, quite a bit. 00:28:52.290 --> 00:28:54.140 They have been meeting with him. 00:28:55.230 --> 00:28:59.230 But they want Salvador to sign an agreement with the president 00:28:59.930 --> 00:29:03.580 to review only some of the vote reports. 00:29:04.330 --> 00:29:06.740 They’re asking him to sign that. Salvador has refused, 00:29:06.740 --> 00:29:08.350 because he knows that it’s a trap 00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:10.970 that they’re trying to lead him into. 00:29:12.450 --> 00:29:14.030 They want just a partial review, 00:29:15.380 --> 00:29:17.560 and that is obviously not enough. 00:29:18.310 --> 00:29:21.140 AMY GOODMAN: And what does Nasralla say to that? 00:29:21.140 --> 00:29:23.140 What’s his response? 00:29:23.140 --> 00:29:27.940 MANUEL ZELAYA: [translated] The answer is the same 00:29:27.940 --> 00:29:29.430 that I’m giving you. 00:29:29.430 --> 00:29:31.570 I’ve spoken with him. We’re in coordination. 00:29:31.570 --> 00:29:33.250 I’m the coordinator of the alliance. 00:29:33.250 --> 00:29:36.450 He is the candidate and the president-elect. 00:29:36.450 --> 00:29:38.670 The answer is: Let’s have a general count, 00:29:39.170 --> 00:29:41.340 and let’s have the people in the streets. 00:29:41.340 --> 00:29:45.730 AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about General Kelly, General Kelly 00:29:45.730 --> 00:29:49.570 who is this White House chief of staff right now, 00:29:49.570 --> 00:29:51.730 formerly head of SouthCom, 00:29:52.790 --> 00:29:55.110 certainly involved with matters 00:29:55.110 --> 00:29:57.720 relating to the United States in Honduras? 00:29:57.720 --> 00:30:02.030 Do you see him playing a role in the Honduran election? 00:30:02.030 --> 00:30:07.000 MANUEL ZELAYA: [translated] Well, please extend my greetings 00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:08.200 to General Kelly. 00:30:08.200 --> 00:30:09.990 He came here several times. 00:30:09.990 --> 00:30:12.310 I did not meet him personally, but I know who he is. 00:30:13.300 --> 00:30:15.770 When he was the head of the Southern Command, 00:30:16.380 --> 00:30:18.380 head of SouthCom, 00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:22.550 he was given responsibility over Honduras, 00:30:22.550 --> 00:30:26.800 and he exercised a great deal of influence 00:30:26.800 --> 00:30:27.990 in the changes in the country. 00:30:27.990 --> 00:30:29.690 President Obama said it’s a mistake 00:30:29.690 --> 00:30:32.540 to put the military in charge of drug trafficking, 00:30:32.540 --> 00:30:35.230 because their armed forces are going to become contaminated. 00:30:36.110 --> 00:30:38.580 Well, here, General Kelly made that mistake 00:30:38.580 --> 00:30:40.470 of getting the armed forces involved. 00:30:40.470 --> 00:30:43.720 Instead of involved in defense, they’re involved in security. 00:30:43.720 --> 00:30:45.120 That’s a big mistake, 00:30:45.120 --> 00:30:48.590 because the military have a patriotic function 00:30:48.590 --> 00:30:50.390 to defend and support security, 00:30:50.390 --> 00:30:52.990 but not to be the first line on security. 00:30:52.990 --> 00:30:54.900 And so, he is, in large measure, 00:30:54.900 --> 00:30:58.270 responsible for the tragedy that the country is experiencing. 00:30:58.270 --> 00:30:59.960 AMY GOODMAN: Do you see a difference between 00:30:59.960 --> 00:31:03.650 the Trump administration’s involvement in Honduras today 00:31:03.650 --> 00:31:05.810 and the Obama administration, 00:31:05.810 --> 00:31:10.330 clearly involved in the coup against you, 00:31:10.330 --> 00:31:13.750 that toppled you, President Zelaya, in 2009? 00:31:13.750 --> 00:31:19.140 MANUEL ZELAYA: [translated] 00:31:19.140 --> 00:31:21.010 There’s less hypocrisy with Trump. 00:31:21.510 --> 00:31:24.780 He’s more direct about what he’s going to do, and he does it. 00:31:24.780 --> 00:31:26.290 Under the previous administration, 00:31:27.660 --> 00:31:30.050 there was a lack of sincerity in the words. 00:31:30.050 --> 00:31:31.740 And so, in a way, we like this. 00:31:31.740 --> 00:31:35.880 But Trump is very repressive. He’s very cold and harsh. 00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:39.590 He only sees the world from the standpoint of business. 00:31:39.590 --> 00:31:42.470 I think that we, human beings, 00:31:42.980 --> 00:31:44.880 be it in the eyes of God 00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:47.020 or in the eyes of the law, have the same value. 00:31:47.590 --> 00:31:49.870 This is what Jefferson said. It’s what Washington said. 00:31:49.870 --> 00:31:52.780 It’s what the U.S. Constitution says. 00:31:52.780 --> 00:31:54.120 He lacks humanity. 00:31:54.680 --> 00:31:56.590 AMY GOODMAN: Do you see a connection between the coup 00:31:56.590 --> 00:31:58.960 against you in 2009 00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:02.480 and the violence that has grown in Honduras, 00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:04.000 leading up to, for example, 00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:07.930 the assassination of Berta Cáceres in 2015? 00:32:07.930 --> 00:32:13.460 MANUEL ZELAYA: [translated] The world is a global village. 00:32:13.460 --> 00:32:15.390 Everything is interrelated. 00:32:15.390 --> 00:32:17.050 You were here after the coup d’état, 00:32:17.050 --> 00:32:19.430 and you experienced that tragedy in Honduras. 00:32:19.430 --> 00:32:21.940 Since then, those who carried out the coup 00:32:21.940 --> 00:32:24.480 and removed me have been governing. 00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:27.900 I organized the people, and we’ve now defeated them. 00:32:27.900 --> 00:32:30.300 At the polls, in a civic manner, without violence, 00:32:30.300 --> 00:32:31.870 we defeated them. 00:32:31.870 --> 00:32:33.230 They have the weapons and all. 00:32:34.180 --> 00:32:36.850 And, of course, they changed the state. 00:32:36.850 --> 00:32:40.330 They turned it into a military repressive state, 00:32:40.330 --> 00:32:41.690 violator of human rights. 00:32:43.380 --> 00:32:46.220 And there’s no more respect for due process. 00:32:46.220 --> 00:32:47.400 They’ve introduced new laws. 00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:48.810 There’s a law on secrecy, for example. 00:32:48.810 --> 00:32:53.660 I had a law called law for access to public information 00:32:53.660 --> 00:32:58.460 and law for transparency and a law on citizen participation. 00:32:58.460 --> 00:33:03.790 Now, these are prohibited. 00:33:04.420 --> 00:33:07.860 Public—popular consultations are provided 00:33:07.860 --> 00:33:09.130 by this tyrannical government. 00:33:10.290 --> 00:33:12.080 They say there can be elections, 00:33:12.080 --> 00:33:16.460 but the elections are not the essence of democracy. 00:33:19.360 --> 00:33:21.430 Elections are: You’re presented a piece of paper 00:33:21.430 --> 00:33:23.270 with a bunch of photos, and you mark it. 00:33:23.270 --> 00:33:28.180 That is not the full extent of democracy. 00:33:28.750 --> 00:33:30.980 People making decisions is democracy, 00:33:30.980 --> 00:33:32.150 and it’s not accepted here now, 00:33:32.150 --> 00:33:34.020 almost 10 years after the coup d’état. 00:33:36.180 --> 00:33:42.190 There’s a tie-in of death squads. 00:33:42.190 --> 00:33:44.700 People are being massacred, killed in series. 00:33:45.350 --> 00:33:48.170 We hadn’t seen that before in this country. 00:33:48.890 --> 00:33:52.940 That is a result of the state. 00:33:52.940 --> 00:33:54.950 Instead of seeking to be democratic, 00:33:55.640 --> 00:33:57.410 well, it simply centralized power 00:33:57.410 --> 00:33:59.640 and made it authoritarian and military. 00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:05.940 In addition, as indicated in State Department reports, 00:34:05.940 --> 00:34:09.250 the amount of drugs coming through Honduras has tripled. 00:34:12.210 --> 00:34:15.080 Of course, now there is directly military control 00:34:15.080 --> 00:34:16.190 of all movement of the country, 00:34:16.190 --> 00:34:18.790 and so it’s easier for the drug traffickers 00:34:18.790 --> 00:34:21.490 than in an open democratic system. 00:34:21.490 --> 00:34:24.290 Now, there is too much control by the security forces, 00:34:24.290 --> 00:34:26.520 and therefore the drugs go through very openly 00:34:26.520 --> 00:34:28.520 through Honduras. 00:34:29.390 --> 00:34:33.570 Of course, all of that has been the result of the control 00:34:33.570 --> 00:34:36.560 that the United States came to acquire after the coup d’état. 00:34:37.940 --> 00:34:41.880 First, remember, Otto Reich came through 00:34:44.310 --> 00:34:45.940 with accusations 00:34:45.940 --> 00:34:48.230 against Honduras and so forth. 00:34:48.230 --> 00:34:50.740 But even so, we won the elections. 00:34:50.740 --> 00:34:53.560 Roberto Carmona, a Venezuelan CIA agent, came through. 00:34:53.560 --> 00:34:55.310 The United States took possession of Honduras 00:34:55.310 --> 00:34:56.620 after the coup d’état. 00:34:56.620 --> 00:35:00.710 And they’ve done a very bad job running the country. 00:35:00.710 --> 00:35:03.020 The economy has been low. The poverty has grown. 00:35:03.020 --> 00:35:03.800 Violence has grown. 00:35:03.800 --> 00:35:05.000 Let me cite one datum: 00:35:06.910 --> 00:35:08.290 Violence went down in the six months 00:35:08.290 --> 00:35:09.590 leading up to the elections. 00:35:10.510 --> 00:35:13.490 Well, that was clearly an indicator 00:35:13.490 --> 00:35:19.380 that those who are running the violence and control 00:35:19.380 --> 00:35:20.780 those who are producing the violence 00:35:20.780 --> 00:35:22.760 are those who reduce the levels of violence. 00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:24.140 Why? Because there’s elections. 00:35:24.650 --> 00:35:28.120 And then, after the elections, the violence will come back. 00:35:28.850 --> 00:35:29.970 They are the ones who are running it. 00:35:29.970 --> 00:35:32.640 It’s like a Plan Colombia for Honduras. 00:35:32.640 --> 00:35:33.840 That is what we have called it. 00:35:34.540 --> 00:35:36.180 AMY GOODMAN: Are you for the passage 00:35:36.180 --> 00:35:39.000 of the Berta Cáceres Human Rights Act 00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:40.900 in the U.S. Congress 00:35:40.900 --> 00:35:44.250 that would cut off military aid to Honduras 00:35:44.250 --> 00:35:48.250 until human rights violations stop? 00:35:48.250 --> 00:35:52.320 MANUEL ZELAYA: [translated] Yes, I agree with passage 00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:54.420 of the Berta Cáceres Human Rights 00:35:54.420 --> 00:35:59.360 Act, because the United States is financing a repressive state, 00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:00.430 violating human rights, 00:36:00.430 --> 00:36:04.270 and we need to have an in-depth investigation into all of that. 00:36:04.270 --> 00:36:06.960 AMY GOODMAN: The former Bolivian President Jorge Quiroga 00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:09.840 is heading the Organization of American States, 00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:14.000 the OAS, election observation mission in Honduras. 00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:17.840 He said the tight margin, along with the irregularities, 00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:19.730 errors and systematic problems 00:36:19.730 --> 00:36:21.150 that have surrounded this election, 00:36:21.150 --> 00:36:25.100 does not allow the mission to be certain about the results. 00:36:25.100 --> 00:36:27.190 President Zelaya, what’s your response 00:36:27.190 --> 00:36:29.210 to the former Bolivian president? 00:36:29.210 --> 00:36:36.070 MANUEL ZELAYA: [translated] Look, Tuto Quiroga, 00:36:36.070 --> 00:36:37.410 as we know him in Latin America, 00:36:37.410 --> 00:36:39.000 is a man from the far right. 00:36:41.400 --> 00:36:44.010 He’s a peon of the CIA. 00:36:44.680 --> 00:36:46.210 He works with them. He informs them. 00:36:47.070 --> 00:36:51.190 He was vice president of a dictator in Bolivia. 00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:55.180 In Bolivia, he appears to be 00:36:56.200 --> 00:36:58.220 critical of the system and of Evo Morales. 00:36:58.220 --> 00:37:00.520 Here, he has come to defend a dictator. 00:37:01.330 --> 00:37:03.220 So I don’t believe him. 00:37:03.220 --> 00:37:05.680 A traitor once, a traitor forever. 00:37:05.680 --> 00:37:07.520 AMY GOODMAN: In The Wall Street Journal, 00:37:07.520 --> 00:37:09.620 there was an opinion piece that said 00:37:09.620 --> 00:37:15.280 that you are doing the bidding of Venezuela, 00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:16.700 President Zelaya. 00:37:16.700 --> 00:37:20.080 It’s also what the PR firms in Washington 00:37:20.080 --> 00:37:23.910 that represent the Honduran right are trying to say. 00:37:23.910 --> 00:37:25.220 What is your response to that? 00:37:25.220 --> 00:37:30.330 MANUEL ZELAYA: [translated] I didn’t know the Venezuelans 00:37:30.330 --> 00:37:34.420 until I became president of Honduras and I met Hugo Chávez. 00:37:36.440 --> 00:37:38.960 My record as a citizen is well known throughout 00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:40.470 my entire life in Honduras. 00:37:40.470 --> 00:37:42.710 I am a democratic-minded man. 00:37:43.220 --> 00:37:46.220 I am a pacifist. I don’t use weapons. 00:37:48.310 --> 00:37:52.260 Plus, I have a clean record, throughout my life, 00:37:52.810 --> 00:37:54.570 my private life, 00:37:54.570 --> 00:37:57.220 my public life, my administrative life. 00:37:57.220 --> 00:37:59.050 No one can have any doubts about me. 00:38:00.060 --> 00:38:02.950 Now, in terms of my thinking and my ideology 00:38:03.470 --> 00:38:05.470 and my ways of thinking, 00:38:06.780 --> 00:38:10.030 I share directly with all peoples 00:38:10.030 --> 00:38:13.440 struggling for justice—Venezuela, 00:38:15.780 --> 00:38:17.140 the people of Bolívar, 00:38:17.140 --> 00:38:21.650 the people of Central America, of Morazán, the people of Cuba, 00:38:21.650 --> 00:38:24.100 Martí, and Artigas in Ecuador, 00:38:25.720 --> 00:38:27.720 the people of Mexico, 00:38:29.220 --> 00:38:32.320 the people of Farabundo Martí, the Sandinistas. 00:38:33.830 --> 00:38:36.130 All have struggled against dictatorships, 00:38:36.130 --> 00:38:38.770 opprobrious dictatorships, for centuries. 00:38:41.090 --> 00:38:42.990 That is consistent with my way of being. 00:38:42.990 --> 00:38:45.830 I defend the Bolivarian Revolution 00:38:45.830 --> 00:38:49.270 and the revolution of Martí and Morazán here, 00:38:49.270 --> 00:38:52.040 and the revolutions in the African countries 00:38:52.040 --> 00:38:53.680 and the Middle East, 00:38:53.680 --> 00:38:57.120 who are putting up with so much pressure by the empire. 00:38:57.120 --> 00:38:59.530 I am the defender of just causes, 00:38:59.530 --> 00:39:00.690 and I identify with that. 00:39:00.690 --> 00:39:02.970 Now, if because of that they say 00:39:02.970 --> 00:39:05.770 that I have some affinity with the people, 00:39:05.770 --> 00:39:07.530 tell them it’s true. 00:39:07.530 --> 00:39:08.800 It’s true. 00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:11.640 The struggle being carried out by Nicolás Maduro 00:39:11.640 --> 00:39:13.540 to defend his natural resources, 00:39:13.540 --> 00:39:17.140 that the United States wants to recover—oil, 00:39:17.140 --> 00:39:19.810 the oil wells—and the European countries’ companies, 00:39:19.810 --> 00:39:22.950 as well, is a just struggle of the Venezuelan people. 00:39:22.950 --> 00:39:25.330 And I am with Nicolás Maduro in that struggle, 00:39:27.190 --> 00:39:29.280 because the actions carried out 00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:31.260 by the United States against Venezuela are public. 00:39:31.260 --> 00:39:33.440 The Obama decrees against Venezuela, 00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:35.460 declaring it to be an enemy of the world, is public. 00:39:37.370 --> 00:39:39.050 The aggression by Trump, 00:39:39.050 --> 00:39:41.170 saying he’s going to invade Venezuela, is public. 00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:44.330 We Latin Americans and Caribbeans, 00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:47.550 Hispanic Americans who are here, 00:39:49.570 --> 00:39:51.720 just as we defend immigrants in the United States, 00:39:51.720 --> 00:39:54.470 we also defend peoples who fight for change. 00:39:55.180 --> 00:39:58.010 Here in Honduras, I began a process of change, 00:39:58.010 --> 00:40:01.500 and they took us out by bullets. 00:40:02.670 --> 00:40:05.160 And it was the Latin American left that defended me. 00:40:06.370 --> 00:40:10.000 At that time, the right united, but as a matter of hypocrisy, 00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:14.410 because within months they were with those 00:40:14.410 --> 00:40:15.610 who carried out the coups here, 00:40:15.610 --> 00:40:17.450 so they don’t want changes in Latin America, 00:40:17.450 --> 00:40:19.660 the Caribbean or anywhere in the world. 00:40:19.660 --> 00:40:22.070 Not even in the United States do they want changes. 00:40:26.080 --> 00:40:29.110 There was a candidate proposing democratic socialism. 00:40:29.630 --> 00:40:33.140 And similarly, we have a proposal 00:40:33.140 --> 00:40:36.500 along the same lines at the opposition alliance. 00:40:37.630 --> 00:40:41.370 So, the United States is denying reality. 00:40:41.370 --> 00:40:44.020 They might stop changes momentarily, 00:40:44.020 --> 00:40:47.030 but changes of humankind cannot be stopped. 00:40:47.030 --> 00:40:48.300 We continue going forward. 00:40:48.300 --> 00:40:52.800 Despite all of the forces 00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:55.280 that historically try to keep things as they are, 00:40:55.970 --> 00:40:58.900 humankind has gone through all sorts of change—war, 00:40:58.900 --> 00:41:00.640 revolution, 00:41:00.640 --> 00:41:04.120 peaceful demonstrations, like Gandhi, 00:41:04.120 --> 00:41:05.470 as Jesus Christ taught us. 00:41:05.470 --> 00:41:07.270 And we’re involved in that process. 00:41:07.270 --> 00:41:09.420 So, my identification with those causes 00:41:10.380 --> 00:41:11.940 is a matter of public record. 00:41:12.630 --> 00:41:14.130 I come from a right-wing party. 00:41:14.870 --> 00:41:21.400 But in exercising power at the top level of the public life 00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:25.210 of any human being holding power, 00:41:25.210 --> 00:41:28.080 we realized we needed to help the workers, 00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:31.670 the campesinos, the teachers. 00:41:33.700 --> 00:41:35.570 I wanted this country to have relations with the world. 00:41:35.570 --> 00:41:37.400 I brought Lula. I brought Chávez. 00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:41.910 I brought President Bachelet, presidents of Mexico. 00:41:41.910 --> 00:41:44.940 I maintained good relations with the United States. 00:41:44.940 --> 00:41:45.900 You might not believe me, 00:41:45.900 --> 00:41:50.760 but they had a center with Chávez. 00:41:51.540 --> 00:41:53.310 They wanted to destroy Chávez 00:41:53.310 --> 00:41:55.370 because he wanted to free these peoples 00:41:55.370 --> 00:41:58.410 from the oppression of the big transnationals, 00:41:58.410 --> 00:42:00.320 the military and the transnationals. 00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:04.530 It’s the U.S. and European military-industrial complex. 00:42:06.090 --> 00:42:08.440 With that, they’ve gone to destroy the Middle East. 00:42:08.440 --> 00:42:11.100 We have anti-imperialist principles 00:42:11.100 --> 00:42:12.640 and anti-capitalist principles, 00:42:12.640 --> 00:42:15.280 because capital is good. Capital needs to be developed. 00:42:15.780 --> 00:42:17.850 Private enterprise plays a fundamental role 00:42:17.850 --> 00:42:21.490 in the history of our peoples, the private sector. 00:42:22.620 --> 00:42:27.570 I, myself, own agricultural businesses and so on. 00:42:28.090 --> 00:42:31.700 But capital was created by man, 00:42:31.700 --> 00:42:33.730 and it’s not possible that now capital 00:42:33.730 --> 00:42:36.990 is dominating human beings. 00:42:38.250 --> 00:42:40.610 Here, they want to run the nations. 00:42:40.610 --> 00:42:41.890 They want to run the states. 00:42:41.890 --> 00:42:44.160 They want to oppress and exploit the peoples. 00:42:44.160 --> 00:42:46.160 I’m a businessperson, 00:42:48.710 --> 00:42:53.700 but the role of a businessperson is to drive the economy, 00:42:54.450 --> 00:42:56.060 but not to guide the nation. 00:42:56.060 --> 00:42:58.780 The nation should be guided by common sense and reason. 00:43:00.640 --> 00:43:02.140 And that is democracy. 00:43:04.460 --> 00:43:06.750 And I am grateful for this opportunity. 00:43:06.750 --> 00:43:09.390 I see this is not coming from the coup d’état. 00:43:11.190 --> 00:43:12.710 We are resisting with force, 00:43:12.710 --> 00:43:15.650 so we will maintain this position the rest of our lives. 00:43:15.650 --> 00:43:17.140 And we see that the people are the ones 00:43:17.140 --> 00:43:19.000 who are on the right side of history. 00:43:19.590 --> 00:43:21.370 The people is like the concept of God. 00:43:21.370 --> 00:43:24.360 The people is justice. The people is transparency. 00:43:25.290 --> 00:43:28.670 The people is calling for justice, demanding justice. 00:43:29.890 --> 00:43:35.280 So, if they want to judge me or criticize me for these views, 00:43:35.830 --> 00:43:36.870 they may do so. 00:43:36.870 --> 00:43:39.230 AMY GOODMAN: Would you say that Salvador Nasralla 00:43:39.230 --> 00:43:40.580 shares your views? 00:43:40.580 --> 00:43:42.730 MANUEL ZELAYA: [translated] In large measure. 00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:45.540 Salvador is a fair man. 00:43:45.540 --> 00:43:48.320 He is a man of the right, but he is a fair man. 00:43:48.320 --> 00:43:51.130 And we entered into an alliance, and we signed this, 00:43:51.130 --> 00:43:53.820 and we said we’re going for a participatory democracy 00:43:53.820 --> 00:43:56.430 because representative democracy is a betrayal. 00:43:56.990 --> 00:43:59.840 It represents betrayal of the people, 00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:01.600 who need to be involved in referendums 00:44:01.600 --> 00:44:03.030 and in popular consultations. 00:44:03.030 --> 00:44:05.600 We consider him to be an advanced and progressive man. 00:44:05.600 --> 00:44:08.900 He’s not a socialist, but he is a progressive man. 00:44:08.900 --> 00:44:11.060 And that’s why he was our candidate. 00:44:11.060 --> 00:44:12.510 And that’s why we won the election. 00:44:12.510 --> 00:44:15.400 The people were able to pick up on his message. 00:44:15.400 --> 00:44:17.920 AMY GOODMAN: President Zelaya, the significance of the police 00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:22.210 refusing to impose the curfew, enforce the curfew, 00:44:22.210 --> 00:44:23.960 for President Hernández? 00:44:23.960 --> 00:44:28.180 MANUEL ZELAYA: [translated] There was a mutiny 00:44:28.180 --> 00:44:29.580 in the COBRA Group, 00:44:29.580 --> 00:44:33.970 which is a special commando group, a rebellion. 00:44:33.970 --> 00:44:37.210 And that then spread to all of the civilian police. 00:44:37.210 --> 00:44:39.400 There was like 24 hours of rebellion. 00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:42.280 Logically, these are disciplined bodies 00:44:44.170 --> 00:44:45.830 that have their esprit de corps, 00:44:46.370 --> 00:44:48.960 and they defend their own integrity at the end of the day. 00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:50.750 But it sends two messages to the nation: 00:44:52.810 --> 00:44:57.190 You are governing poorly, we want clean elections, 00:44:57.190 --> 00:45:00.460 and we want the winner to be recognized as the winner. 00:45:00.460 --> 00:45:02.800 We don’t want impositions. We’re not going to accept impositions. 00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:05.370 And we’re not going to obey the president 00:45:05.370 --> 00:45:10.380 when he orders us to lash out against the people. 00:45:10.380 --> 00:45:11.780 They are our sisters and brothers. 00:45:13.060 --> 00:45:15.260 And they said, "We are not going to repress the people. 00:45:15.260 --> 00:45:17.780 The people demand transparent elections 00:45:17.780 --> 00:45:19.410 and a transparent vote count." 00:45:19.410 --> 00:45:21.430 And it was won. 00:45:21.430 --> 00:45:24.210 And the police now have stepped back. 00:45:24.210 --> 00:45:25.740 They reached a specific agreement. 00:45:26.510 --> 00:45:28.780 But they really left a revolutionary message 00:45:28.780 --> 00:45:30.780 with the people. 00:45:32.040 --> 00:45:34.630 It’s a group that is with the people. 00:45:35.130 --> 00:45:37.960 And we have confidence, 00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:39.980 and we’re grateful for this historic gesture 00:45:39.980 --> 00:45:43.240 on the part of the police, unlike the military. 00:45:43.240 --> 00:45:45.060 The military are the ones who are killing us. 00:45:45.060 --> 00:45:46.200 They are the ones who are assassinating. 00:45:46.200 --> 00:45:47.660 And they should reflect upon this, 00:45:47.660 --> 00:45:50.660 because they, too, are persons of the people. 00:45:50.660 --> 00:45:53.320 AMY GOODMAN: And finally, what do you see happening 00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:54.860 from this point on, 00:45:54.860 --> 00:45:56.860 President Zelaya? 00:45:56.860 --> 00:46:00.700 MANUEL ZELAYA: [translated] Ask General Kelly. 00:46:01.470 --> 00:46:03.940 I already told you what we are going to do. 00:46:05.030 --> 00:46:07.800 And we are going to uphold the will of the people. 00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:09.880 I’ve told you what Salvador Nasralla is doing. 00:46:11.040 --> 00:46:12.290 We’re calling on the people 00:46:12.290 --> 00:46:13.700 to defend themselves in the streets, 00:46:13.700 --> 00:46:14.710 to take to the streets. 00:46:14.710 --> 00:46:16.740 If they do not defend their triumph, 00:46:16.740 --> 00:46:21.160 if we—what we don’t defend in the streets, 00:46:21.160 --> 00:46:23.450 we’re not going to be able to defend in the institutions, 00:46:23.450 --> 00:46:26.420 which are totally coopted and controlled by the tyranny 00:46:26.420 --> 00:46:28.240 that has been established in Honduras 00:46:28.240 --> 00:46:30.490 and with the support of the State Department. 00:46:30.490 --> 00:46:33.810 And the State Department, to conclude, I ask you, 00:46:33.810 --> 00:46:35.940 look, you, in the United States, 00:46:35.940 --> 00:46:37.850 you have a major responsibility in the world. 00:46:37.850 --> 00:46:40.820 You have the money, the weapons, power in the world. 00:46:40.820 --> 00:46:45.060 You have the technology, some of the greatest strides in science. 00:46:45.060 --> 00:46:46.920 Don’t do this to this people. 00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:48.910 Stop supporting a fraud in Honduras. 00:46:49.720 --> 00:46:52.840 Please, allow us to act democratically. 00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:53.870 We’re a peaceful people, 00:46:53.870 --> 00:46:55.380 and we want to have a good relationship 00:46:55.380 --> 00:46:57.320 with the United States. 00:46:57.320 --> 00:47:00.100 But in this way, all that is done 00:47:00.100 --> 00:47:01.320 is for the United States 00:47:01.320 --> 00:47:04.300 to get a poor image, worse than it already might be. 00:47:04.300 --> 00:47:05.580 AMY GOODMAN: That’s former Honduras 00:47:05.580 --> 00:47:07.860 President Manuel Zelaya, 00:47:07.860 --> 00:47:11.230 who was ousted in a 2009 U.S.-backed coup. 00:47:11.230 --> 00:47:14.130 He was speaking to us from Tegucigalpa, Honduras. 00:47:14.130 --> 00:47:16.780 He heads the operation LIBRE party, 00:47:16.780 --> 00:47:19.770 part of the Alliance Against the Dictatorship, 00:47:19.770 --> 00:47:22.150 which is led by Salvador Nasralla, 00:47:22.150 --> 00:47:24.290 the opposition presidential candidate. 00:47:24.790 --> 00:47:27.660 The Honduran government- controlled election commission 00:47:27.660 --> 00:47:30.350 still refuses to release the final results 00:47:30.350 --> 00:47:33.380 from the election nearly two weeks ago. 00:47:33.380 --> 00:47:34.800 You can go to democracynow.org 00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:36.640 to see all of our coverage of Honduras, 00:47:36.640 --> 00:47:41.640 including our coverage of his return to Honduras 00:47:41.640 --> 00:47:45.180 in 2011 on a plane from Nicaragua. 00:47:45.180 --> 00:47:47.760 This was after he was deposed 00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:51.600 and then returning to Honduras after the U.S.-backed coup. 00:47:51.600 --> 00:47:54.270 This is Democracy Now! When we come back, 00:47:54.270 --> 00:47:55.470 we’ll be talking about 00:47:55.470 --> 00:47:57.620 The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump: 00:47:58.150 --> 00:48:01.570 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Assessing a President. 00:48:01.570 --> 00:48:03.570 Stay with us. 00:48:03.570 --> 00:48:54.610 [break] 00:48:54.610 --> 00:48:56.460 AMY GOODMAN: "If I was President" by L.A.-based 00:48:56.460 --> 00:48:57.830 band Las Cafeteras, 00:48:58.850 --> 00:49:00.970 performing here in our Democracy Now! studios. 00:49:00.970 --> 00:49:03.460 To see the full interview and their performances, 00:49:03.460 --> 00:49:05.720 you can go to democracynow.org. 00:49:05.720 --> 00:49:07.780 AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman. 00:49:07.780 --> 00:49:09.710 We end today’s show with growing questions 00:49:09.710 --> 00:49:12.200 about President Donald Trump’s mental health. 00:49:12.200 --> 00:49:14.370 On Wednesday, Trump slurred his speech 00:49:14.370 --> 00:49:16.960 and mispronounced words during an address on Israel. 00:49:17.900 --> 00:49:20.770 PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Let us rethink old assumptions 00:49:20.770 --> 00:49:26.250 and open our hearts and minds to possible and possibilities. 00:49:26.870 --> 00:49:29.320 And finally, I ask the leaders of the region, 00:49:29.960 --> 00:49:31.460 political and religious, 00:49:32.090 --> 00:49:33.860 Israeli and Palestinian, 00:49:33.860 --> 00:49:35.530 Jewish and Christian and Muslim, 00:49:35.530 --> 00:49:41.060 to join us in the noble quest for lasting peace. 00:49:41.730 --> 00:49:44.190 Thank you. God bless you. 00:49:44.190 --> 00:49:47.870 God bless Israel. God bless the Palestinians. 00:49:47.870 --> 00:49:50.920 And God bless the United States. 00:49:50.920 --> 00:49:52.530 Thank you very much. 00:49:52.530 --> 00:49:54.500 AMY GOODMAN: White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders 00:49:54.500 --> 00:49:56.840 responded to questions about Trump’s slurred speech 00:49:56.840 --> 00:49:59.610 by announcing he’s scheduled a physical health exam. 00:49:59.610 --> 00:49:59.610 PRESS SECRETARY SARAH HUCKABEE 00:50:00.160 --> 00:50:02.740 SANDERS: The president’s throat was dry. Nothing more than that. 00:50:02.740 --> 00:50:05.200 He does have a physical scheduled 00:50:05.200 --> 00:50:06.870 for the first part of next year, 00:50:07.850 --> 00:50:11.200 the full physical that most presidents go through, 00:50:11.200 --> 00:50:13.000 that will take place at Walter Reed. 00:50:13.000 --> 00:50:15.410 And those records will be released 00:50:15.410 --> 00:50:17.710 by the doctor following that taking place. 00:50:17.710 --> 00:50:19.770 AMY GOODMAN: This comes as New York Times chief 00:50:19.770 --> 00:50:21.710 White House reporter Maggie Haberman 00:50:21.710 --> 00:50:23.230 commented on Trump’s behavior 00:50:23.230 --> 00:50:25.310 when she was interviewed on CNN last week. 00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:29.070 MAGGIE HABERMAN: Something is unleashed with him lately. 00:50:29.070 --> 00:50:31.600 I don’t know what is causing it. I don’t know how to describe it. 00:50:31.600 --> 00:50:32.700 It may be pressure from— 00:50:32.700 --> 00:50:34.400 ALISYN CAMEROTA: Oh, you see a difference in the past what? 00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:34.900 Days? Weeks? 00:50:34.900 --> 00:50:36.670 MAGGIE HABERMAN: I think the last couple of days’ tweets 00:50:36.670 --> 00:50:38.910 have been— 00:50:38.910 --> 00:50:39.380 ALISYN CAMEROTA: Unhinged. 00:50:39.380 --> 00:50:42.860 MAGGIE HABERMAN: —markedly accelerated in terms 00:50:42.860 --> 00:50:45.100 of seeming a little unmoored. 00:50:45.770 --> 00:50:47.610 AMY GOODMAN: Last month, Pentagon leaders 00:50:47.610 --> 00:50:48.860 told a Senate panel 00:50:48.860 --> 00:50:51.150 they would ignore any unlawful order by the president 00:50:51.150 --> 00:50:53.400 to launch a nuclear strike. 00:50:53.400 --> 00:50:55.690 The testimony came as part of the first congressional hearings 00:50:55.690 --> 00:50:57.760 in more than 40 years on the president’s authority 00:50:57.760 --> 00:50:59.270 to start a nuclear war. 00:50:59.270 --> 00:51:03.960 This is Connecticut Democratic—Democrat Chris Murphy 00:51:03.960 --> 00:51:05.470 raised some of these questions. 00:51:05.470 --> 00:51:07.720 But, for more, we’re joined by someone who has led 00:51:07.720 --> 00:51:10.090 a discussion of mental health professionals who are concerned 00:51:10.090 --> 00:51:12.830 about President Trump’s psychological instability. 00:51:12.830 --> 00:51:15.510 Dr. Bandy Lee is a forensic psychiatrist 00:51:15.510 --> 00:51:17.520 on the faculty of Yale School of Medicine, 00:51:17.520 --> 00:51:20.730 an internationally recognized expert on violence. 00:51:20.730 --> 00:51:24.130 She edited the book The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump: 00:51:24.130 --> 00:51:27.330 27 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts 00:51:27.330 --> 00:51:29.160 Assess a President. 00:51:29.160 --> 00:51:30.800 The book became a best-seller 00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:32.100 when it was published in October. 00:51:32.100 --> 00:51:34.370 It sold out over and over again. 00:51:34.370 --> 00:51:36.580 Dr. Bandy Lee, welcome to Democracy Now! 00:51:36.580 --> 00:51:38.760 What are your concerns? And are they increasing? 00:51:40.020 --> 00:51:41.950 DR. BANDY LEE: Well, we have been concerned 00:51:41.950 --> 00:51:44.920 about the mental stability of the president, 00:51:44.920 --> 00:51:47.040 as well as his dangerousness, 00:51:48.290 --> 00:51:51.810 since—pretty much since his campaign, 00:51:51.810 --> 00:51:54.310 but heightened since his election. 00:51:54.310 --> 00:51:58.110 And I have been flooded with phone calls 00:51:58.110 --> 00:51:59.980 and emails, messages, 00:51:59.980 --> 00:52:02.360 since morning after election. 00:52:04.230 --> 00:52:07.940 Much of my profession had been silenced 00:52:07.940 --> 00:52:10.720 because of what is called the Goldwater rule. 00:52:10.720 --> 00:52:13.420 It basically states that— 00:52:13.420 --> 00:52:15.450 AMY GOODMAN: Explain the Goldwater rule. 00:52:16.390 --> 00:52:18.530 DR. BANDY LEE: —psychiatrists are not to diagnose 00:52:18.530 --> 00:52:21.320 a public figure without having examined them personally 00:52:21.320 --> 00:52:23.320 and gotten consent. 00:52:23.900 --> 00:52:27.720 But, interestingly, the American Psychiatric Association 00:52:27.720 --> 00:52:31.050 modified its own interpretation of the rule 00:52:31.050 --> 00:52:32.440 in March of this year 00:52:33.600 --> 00:52:36.310 to basically say that psychiatrists 00:52:36.310 --> 00:52:40.960 are not allowed to say anything about their speech or behavior, 00:52:40.960 --> 00:52:42.270 even in an emergency. 00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:45.830 And I felt that that actually went against 00:52:46.780 --> 00:52:49.720 the ethical principles of our profession. 00:52:49.720 --> 00:52:52.520 And so I held a conference in April 00:52:53.040 --> 00:52:55.170 to discuss the ethical rules, 00:52:55.170 --> 00:52:57.270 and invited Robert Jay Lifton, 00:52:57.270 --> 00:53:00.960 as well as a number of other renowned members of my field. 00:53:01.460 --> 00:53:05.430 And only about 20 people showed up, to a large auditorium. 00:53:06.440 --> 00:53:08.010 Basically, they were afraid. 00:53:08.010 --> 00:53:14.140 They were afraid to be—of being targeted litigiously 00:53:14.140 --> 00:53:18.340 by the president or physically by his violence-prone followers. 00:53:21.040 --> 00:53:22.940 But when the news got out, 00:53:23.530 --> 00:53:26.870 and in the national and international news, 00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:30.360 hundreds of mental health professionals 00:53:30.360 --> 00:53:33.350 got in touch with me. And now we’re in the thousands. 00:53:33.350 --> 00:53:35.370 AMY GOODMAN: So, the movement is called the Duty 00:53:35.370 --> 00:53:37.160 to Warn movement, 00:53:37.160 --> 00:53:39.040 your conference, the Duty to Warn Conference. 00:53:39.040 --> 00:53:41.550 What does that mean, "duty to warn"? 00:53:41.550 --> 00:53:44.070 DR. BANDY LEE: That is actually based on—the phrase 00:53:44.070 --> 00:53:45.800 comes from a California case, 00:53:45.800 --> 00:53:49.980 which has been litigated hundreds of times, 00:53:49.980 --> 00:53:53.280 compared to the Goldwater case, which was only litigated once. 00:53:55.030 --> 00:53:59.960 But our profession, in general, has a duty to report, 00:53:59.960 --> 00:54:01.580 a duty to warn and a duty 00:54:01.580 --> 00:54:04.950 to take steps to protect potential victims 00:54:05.450 --> 00:54:07.130 in the case of danger. 00:54:08.480 --> 00:54:11.040 And we, as mental health professionals, 00:54:11.040 --> 00:54:14.290 routinely screen for a risk 00:54:14.290 --> 00:54:18.810 and are involved in preventing violence, 00:54:18.810 --> 00:54:20.690 as well as intervening, 00:54:21.880 --> 00:54:24.590 with collaboration with security forces, generally. 00:54:25.320 --> 00:54:27.980 And so when we have information 00:54:27.980 --> 00:54:31.370 that would cause us to suspect danger, 00:54:31.880 --> 00:54:34.790 we do have an obligation to intervene. 00:54:34.790 --> 00:54:37.050 AMY GOODMAN: So you’re just back from Capitol Hill. 00:54:37.050 --> 00:54:39.860 You’re urging lawmakers, Democrat and Republican, 00:54:39.860 --> 00:54:43.240 to call for an urgent mental evaluation of Donald Trump. 00:54:43.240 --> 00:54:44.880 DR. BANDY LEE: Yes, because usually 00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:46.590 when there’s a sign of danger, 00:54:46.590 --> 00:54:48.130 it’s an emergency. 00:54:48.130 --> 00:54:50.950 So, what we do is we contain the person, 00:54:50.950 --> 00:54:52.950 remove them from access to weapons 00:54:52.950 --> 00:54:55.120 and do an urgent evaluation. 00:54:55.120 --> 00:54:57.900 This is what we have been urging for 00:54:58.950 --> 00:55:00.770 with regard to the president. 00:55:00.770 --> 00:55:04.790 He has shown a number of signs, showing proneness to violence. 00:55:04.790 --> 00:55:07.240 He has incited violence in the past. 00:55:07.240 --> 00:55:09.130 He’s shown an attraction to violence 00:55:09.130 --> 00:55:11.860 as a coping strategy of his own. 00:55:11.860 --> 00:55:15.120 He has taunted hostile nations with nuclear power. 00:55:16.930 --> 00:55:21.330 Basically, the risk, in our minds, is quite high. 00:55:22.280 --> 00:55:23.960 AMY GOODMAN: Now, I wanted to ask you—there are those 00:55:23.960 --> 00:55:26.880 who are really questioning the Duty to Warn movement. 00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:29.130 There is the disability blogger 00:55:29.130 --> 00:55:31.900 who said bigotry is not a mental illness. 00:55:32.820 --> 00:55:39.350 There was a piece that was done by Noah Feldman, 00:55:39.350 --> 00:55:41.250 "Stop Using Language of Mental Health 00:55:41.250 --> 00:55:43.020 to Criticize President Trump." 00:55:44.260 --> 00:55:47.110 And if you can respond to some of this criticism? 00:55:47.110 --> 00:55:48.690 DR. BANDY LEE: Actually, we’re often confused 00:55:48.690 --> 00:55:53.060 with a non-professional group called a Duty to Warn. 00:55:54.960 --> 00:55:57.070 We are actually a national coalition 00:55:57.070 --> 00:55:59.140 of mental health professionals 00:55:59.740 --> 00:56:00.970 who believe in the duty 00:56:00.970 --> 00:56:04.140 to warn as a principle of our profession, 00:56:04.140 --> 00:56:06.540 because we are—we have an obligation 00:56:06.540 --> 00:56:08.320 not just to our individual patients, 00:56:08.320 --> 00:56:09.620 but also to the public. 00:56:10.290 --> 00:56:12.290 And— 00:56:12.890 --> 00:56:14.810 AMY GOODMAN: Richard Friedman wrote in an op-ed piece 00:56:14.810 --> 00:56:15.940 in The New York Times, 00:56:15.940 --> 00:56:17.600 "There is one last reason we should avoid 00:56:17.600 --> 00:56:19.610 psychiatrically labeling our leaders: 00:56:19.610 --> 00:56:22.280 It lets them off the moral hook. 00:56:22.280 --> 00:56:25.370 Not all misbehavior reflects psychopathology; 00:56:25.370 --> 00:56:27.630 the fact is that ordinary human meanness 00:56:27.630 --> 00:56:30.610 and incompetence are far more common than mental illness. 00:56:30.610 --> 00:56:34.320 We should not be in the business of medicalizing bad actors." 00:56:34.320 --> 00:56:35.830 Your response, Dr. Lee? 00:56:35.830 --> 00:56:38.160 DR. BANDY LEE: Well, medical—mental impairment 00:56:39.080 --> 00:56:42.060 is not mutually exclusive with criminal responsibility. 00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:45.780 In fact, only about 1 percent of murder cases 00:56:45.780 --> 00:56:48.310 are deemed not guilty by reason of insanity. 00:56:49.420 --> 00:56:52.180 What we’re saying is actually that the combination 00:56:52.180 --> 00:56:56.120 of mental disability—instability and criminal-mindedness 00:56:56.120 --> 00:56:58.570 actually makes one more dangerous. 00:56:58.570 --> 00:57:01.570 So we’re basically just warning about danger. 00:57:01.570 --> 00:57:04.660 We’re not making diagnoses. We’re calling for an evaluation. 00:57:06.010 --> 00:57:08.740 I hear that Mr. Trump is undergoing 00:57:08.740 --> 00:57:10.830 a physical exam in January. 00:57:10.830 --> 00:57:14.340 I hope it includes a screen for mental capacity, 00:57:14.930 --> 00:57:16.650 the capacity to serve, 00:57:16.650 --> 00:57:21.700 the basic ability to take incorrect information and advice 00:57:21.700 --> 00:57:26.090 when needed, to process that information to make sound, 00:57:26.090 --> 00:57:31.720 logical decisions based on facts and real consequences. 00:57:33.110 --> 00:57:36.280 AMY GOODMAN: As we wrap up, how does this relate 00:57:36.280 --> 00:57:37.550 to the issue of impeachment? 00:57:40.120 --> 00:57:42.710 DR. BANDY LEE: In my mind, well, that’s really not my area. 00:57:44.130 --> 00:57:47.970 My expertise is in medicine and psychiatry 00:57:47.970 --> 00:57:49.310 and violence prevention. 00:57:51.120 --> 00:57:52.660 But when I met with the lawmakers, 00:57:52.660 --> 00:57:56.720 it seemed that while the 25th Amendment 00:57:56.720 --> 00:57:58.500 would be the only area 00:57:58.500 --> 00:58:00.650 that deals with presidential disability, 00:58:01.910 --> 00:58:04.040 even that is a political decision. 00:58:04.040 --> 00:58:06.900 In other words, in courts or for legal bodies, 00:58:06.900 --> 00:58:10.100 we give our expert opinion based on medical data, 00:58:11.070 --> 00:58:13.790 but all we do is give recommendations. 00:58:13.790 --> 00:58:17.270 The disability or unfitness for duty, 00:58:17.270 --> 00:58:21.400 these things are still legal decisions, in all circumstances. 00:58:21.400 --> 00:58:24.690 It seems in this case it would be a political decision, 00:58:24.690 --> 00:58:26.830 whereby it can play a role. 00:58:26.830 --> 00:58:28.660 AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to do Part 2 of this discussion 00:58:28.660 --> 00:58:31.720 and put it on our web exclusives at democracynow.org. 00:58:31.720 --> 00:58:33.690 Dr. Bandy Lee, forensic psychiatrist, 00:58:33.690 --> 00:58:36.030 internationally recognized expert on violence, 00:58:36.030 --> 00:58:38.050 editor of The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump: 00:58:38.050 --> 00:58:40.120 27 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts 00:58:40.120 --> 00:58:41.500 Assess a President. 00:58:42.120 --> 00:58:45.020 She is an organizer of the Yale University Duty 00:58:45.020 --> 00:58:47.970 to Warn Conference at the Yale Medical School. 00:58:47.970 --> 00:58:49.280 Happy birthday, Carla Wills!