WEBVTT

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From Pacifica,
this is Democracy Now!

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The minute black people started
fighting for our rights

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and our freedom in this country,
we’ve been called terrorists.

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And I think what you’ll
see from Angela Davis,

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what you’ll see from MLK,

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what you’ll see from
the current freedom

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fighters of this
black liberation struggle,

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is the need for the
United States government

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and local law enforcement
to label us as terrorists.

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It is a way
to undermine our work,

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and it’s a way to really
try to dismantle

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the work that
we’re trying to do.

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When They Call You a Terrorist:
A Black Lives Matter Memoir.

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Today, we speak with
Patrisse Khan-Cullors,

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one of the co-founders of
the Black Lives Matter movement,

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about growing up as a black girl

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in a poor neighborhood
of Los Angeles

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amidst rampant police violence,

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next to one of the richest
neighborhoods in the world.

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We’ll also be joined
by her co-author, journalist

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and activist asha bandele.

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The importance
of Patrisse’s story,

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which she unpacks in
When They Call You a Terrorist,

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is that it shows us the human
cost of the drug war

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and the war on gangs and
the prison-industrial complex.

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It’s not just these sort of
stats and facts and figures.

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These policy choices
have destroyed real lives,

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and Patrisse shows us how.

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All that and more, coming up.

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Welcome to Democracy Now!,
democracynow.org,

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The War and Peace Report.
I’m Amy Goodman.

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The New York Times
reports the Pentagon is quietly

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preparing for a potential war

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with North Korea,

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with the U.S. military
launching a series of war games

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and exercises from Fort Bragg,
North Carolina,

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to the skies above Nevada,

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to a planned deployment of even
more special operations troops

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to the Korean Peninsula

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during the Winter Olympics
in South Korea next month.

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The planning for
a potential nuclear war

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comes as President Trump
has repeatedly threatened

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to launch a nuclear strike

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against North Korea.

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Meanwhile, The Wall
Street Journal

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is reporting the Pentagon

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is also planning to develop two
new sea-based nuclear weapons.

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The report is based on
a new Defense Department

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nuclear strategy review,

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which says the proposed
new nuclear weapons

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would be to counter
Russia and China.

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Last week, The Guardian reported
the Trump administration

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is planning to loosen
the restrictions

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on the use of nuclear weapons

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and develop a nuclear warhead
for U.S. Trident missiles.

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This all comes as Trump
has proposed building up

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the United States’
nuclear arsenal

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and has reportedly asked,
about nuclear weapons,

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"If we had them,
why can’t we use them?"

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Residents of Hawaii experienced
panic on Saturday morning

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when an emergency
management worker

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mistakenly sent out
a false alarm warning residents

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about an incoming
ballistic missile.

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The alert, which residents
received to their cellphones,

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read, "Emergency Alert:
Ballistic Missile Threat

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Inbound to Hawaii.

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Seek Immediate Shelter.
This is Not a Drill."

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It took 38 minutes for Hawaii

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to then inform residents

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that the alert was,
in fact, a mistake.

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This is Hawaii
Governor David Ige.

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Gov. David Ige:
"Today is a day that most of us

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will never forget,

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a day when many
in our community thought

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that our worst nightmare
might actually be happening,

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a day when many
frantically tried to think

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about the things
that they would do

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if a ballistic missile
launch would happen."

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Meanwhile, on Tuesday,
Japanese residents also received

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a false alert

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about an incoming
ballistic missile.

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This alert was sent
as a news alert

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by the national
broadcaster NHK.

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The U.S. ambassador to Panama

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has resigned amid
international outrage

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over President Trump’s
racist comment in which

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Trump reportedly
called African nations,

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El Salvador and Haiti
shithole countries.

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In his resignation letter, U.S.
Ambassador to Panama John Feeley

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said he feels he can
no longer serve the president.

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His resignation
takes effect March 9.

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The news of the resignation
comes after Trump

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sparked an international
firestorm

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by reportedly saying
during a meeting with lawmakers

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at the White House last week,

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"Why do we want all these
people from Africa here?

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They’re shithole countries …

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We should have more
people from Norway."

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It’s now being claimed
by some lawmakers

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who were present
at the meeting

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that Trump used the words
"shithouse," not "shithole."

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In response to the comments,

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the government of Botswana
wrote in a statement,

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"The Botswana government
has also enquired

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from the US government
through the Ambassador,

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to clarify if Botswana

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is regarded as
a 'shithole' country."

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This all comes as President
Trump has denied being a racist,

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during an interview
with reporters on Sunday.

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President Donald Trump:
"No, no, I’m not a racist.

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I am the least racist person
you have ever interviewed.

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That I can tell you."

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Meanwhile, on Saturday night,
activists projected

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onto the Trump
International Hotel

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in Washington, D.C.,
the words:

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"Need a place to stay?
Try this shithole."

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But they, too,
like the president,

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used the full four-letter
swear before "hole."

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The Wall Street Journal
has reported

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President Trump’s lawyers
reportedly paid $130,000

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to a former porn star
to keep her from going public

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about her sexual encounter

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with Donald Trump in 2006.

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The money was reportedly
paid to Stephanie Clifford,

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known as Stormy Daniels,
in October 2016,

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only a month before
the general election.

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The sexual encounter
allegedly occurred

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shortly after President Trump
married his wife, Melania,

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and while she was pregnant
with their son, Barron.

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Meanwhile, a former Playboy
model named Karen McDougal

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says she also had an affair
with Donald Trump in 2006.

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She reportedly sold
the exclusive rights

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to the story to the National
Enquirer for $150,000

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shortly before
the presidential election.

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The Enquirer never
ran the story.

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The CEO of the newspaper’s
parent company

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is a close friend
of President Trump.

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Former U.S. Army
whistleblower Chelsea

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Manning is running for
U.S. Senate in Maryland.

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This is a clip of her
new campaign ad,

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which features images of the
deadly white supremacist

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rally in Charlottesville,
Virginia, last year.

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Chelsea Manning:
"We live in trying times,

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times of fear,

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of suppression,

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of hate.

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We need to stop expecting
that our systems

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will somehow fix themselves.

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We need to actually take
the reins of power from them.

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You’re damn right we got this."

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That’s Chelsea Manning,
speaking in her new campaign ad

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announcing her run for U.S.

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Senate in Maryland.

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She’ll face Democratic
incumbent Senator

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Benjamin Cardin

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in the Democratic
primary later this year.

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The Pentagon is planning
to escalate

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the U.S. war in Afghanistan
by sending an additional

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1,000 new so-called
combat advisers,

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as well as sending additional
armed and surveillance drones.

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The U.S. war in Afghanistan is
the longest war in U.S. history.

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Its escalation comes as
the Pentagon has also indicated

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it plans to recruit and train
thousands of U.S.-backed Kurdish

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fighters in Syria

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to form a border security
force in northern Syria

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along the border with Turkey.

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U.S.-backed Syrian

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Kurdish fighters already control
large swaths of northern Syria.

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On Monday, Turkish President

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Recep Tayyip Erdogan slammed the
United States for the proposal

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and accused the Syrian
Kurds of being terrorists.

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In Iraq, at least 27 people
were killed in a double suicide

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bombing in the center
of the capital

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Baghdad during rush hour
on Monday morning.

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The majority of
the attack’s victims

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were street vendors
and day laborers

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who had gathered in the market
looking for work.

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No group has claimed
responsibility so far.

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Monday’s bombing was the first
major attack in Baghdad

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since the Iraqi government
declared victory over ISIS.

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In Libya, at least 20 people

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were killed amid
clashes in the capital

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Tripoli. The fighting shut
down the main airport.

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The government says
the clashes began

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when a militant group
tried to free

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imprisoned members
from a nearby prison.

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Palestinian President
Mahmoud Abbas

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slammed President Trump and
the United States in a speech

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Sunday, saying Trump’s decision
to move the U.S.

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Embassy from Tel

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Aviv to Jerusalem
was a slap in the face.

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President Mahmoud Abbas:

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"The political negotiations

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should be under
international mediation

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and not solely
an American mediation.

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Should I make it clear?

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We do not accept America as a
mediator between us and Israel.

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Now, we said no
to Trump and others.

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No, we will not
accept his project.

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We told them the 'deal
of the century'

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is the slap of the century.

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And we will retaliate."

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On Monday, Palestinian
leaders voted to call

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on the Palestine Liberation
Organization

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to suspend its
recognition of Israel

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until Israel recognizes
the state of Palestine

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and stops the construction
of Jewish-only settlements

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in the Israeli-occupied
territories.

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Meanwhile, Israeli Prime
Minister Benjamin Netanyahu

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faced protests when he arrived
in New Delhi on Sunday

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as part of a six-day
visit to India.

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Protesters demanded India
cut ties with Israel

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over its treatment
of Palestinians.

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In Mexico, longtime journalist

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Carlos Domínguez Rodríguez
was murdered

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in the border town
of Nuevo Laredo on Saturday,

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in the first murder
of a media worker

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in Mexico this year.

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He was an independent
journalist who,

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in one of his final columns

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for the online outlet
Noreste Digital,

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wrote about the growing
political violence

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ahead of Mexico’s
presidential elections in July.

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Reporters Without Borders says

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Domínguez was dragged
from his car

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by masked men and stabbed
to death in broad daylight.

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Last year Mexico was among
the deadliest countries

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in the world for journalists.

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In Honduras, protests
continue against

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the re-election
of incumbent,

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U.S.-backed President
Juan Orlando Hernández.

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On Friday, protesters
took to the streets

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to denounce alleged
widespread election fraud

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and what many are calling
an electoral coup.

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The military attacked
the protesters

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with tear gas and
rubber-coated steel bullets.

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Among those attacked
was opposition candidate

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Salvador Nasralla

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and former President
Manuel Zelaya,

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who was ousted in a
U.S.-backed coup in 2009.

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This is one of the
protesters, Mario Trejo.

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Mario Trejo:
"We have come out to accompany

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President-elect
Salvador Nasralla.

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We have come out
as a united people

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before the world to tell them

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that the government
robbed the election.

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In Honduras, there is
a serious problem.

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Juan Orlando Hernández
wants to stay,

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and he has all the media,
all the weapons,

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to show that he won.

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But, to the world,
we say that he’s lying,

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he needs to go,
he needs to give up power."

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In Greece, teachers,
judges, doctors,

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nurses
and transportation workers

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launched a strike on Monday

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to protest the Greek
Parliament’s passage

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of a new round
of austerity measures

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imposed by international banks.

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Monday’s strike
came on the heels

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of a massive national
strike on Friday

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also protesting
austerity measures

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and the government’s efforts
to restrict workers’ ability

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to go on strike.

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This is one protester, speaking
during the walkouts on Monday.

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Ilias Katziotis:
"We, the older generation,

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spilled blood to acquire
the right to strike,

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for us, the workers,
the people, to have a voice.

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We will not sit on the couch
with our arms crossed.

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There is no way. We will ruin
the government’s plans."

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Back in the United States,
in California,

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thousands of people
gathered on Sunday night

00:13:12.590 --> 00:13:14.170
to commemorate the 20 people

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who have died
in the deadly mudslides

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in Montecito
near Santa Barbara.

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At least three people
remain missing,

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including a 2-year-old girl.

00:13:22.350 --> 00:13:25.820
The deadly mudslides come
after Southern California

00:13:25.820 --> 00:13:28.910
was ravaged by historic
and deadly winter wildfires.

00:13:28.910 --> 00:13:31.400
Both wildfires
and torrential downpours,

00:13:31.400 --> 00:13:32.830
which triggered the mudslides,

00:13:32.830 --> 00:13:34.660
have been linked
to climate change.

00:13:35.460 --> 00:13:38.380
In Tennessee, a member
of the white supremacist gang

00:13:38.380 --> 00:13:41.280
the Aryan Nations was arrested
for the alleged shooting

00:13:41.280 --> 00:13:43.820
and wounding of a police
officer last Thursday.

00:13:44.330 --> 00:13:48.850
Meanwhile, the FBI has charged a
white supremacist with terrorism

00:13:48.850 --> 00:13:53.100
after he allegedly attempted
to derail an Amtrak train.

00:13:53.100 --> 00:13:54.910
The man, Taylor Wilson,

00:13:54.910 --> 00:13:56.740
had traveled with
other neo-Nazis

00:13:56.740 --> 00:13:58.020
to Charlottesville, Virginia,

00:13:58.020 --> 00:14:00.830
for the deadly white
supremacist rally last year.

00:14:01.410 --> 00:14:04.310
And the former Klansman
Edgar Ray Killen,

00:14:04.310 --> 00:14:07.070
who was convicted for
orchestrating the murders

00:14:07.070 --> 00:14:11.400
of three civil rights workers
in Mississippi in 1964,

00:14:11.400 --> 00:14:13.690
died in prison
on Thursday night.

00:14:13.690 --> 00:14:14.810
Click here to see our full
coverage of Edgar Ray Killen.

00:14:14.810 --> 00:14:18.350
In a Democracy Now!
exclusive, in Washington state,

00:14:18.350 --> 00:14:22.070
undocumented activist
Maru Mora Villalpando

00:14:22.070 --> 00:14:24.750
says Immigrations
and Customs Enforcement

00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:28.370
has placed her
in deportation proceedings,

00:14:28.370 --> 00:14:31.930
in a move she calls retaliation
for her political activism.

00:14:32.520 --> 00:14:35.830
Maru is a nationally known
immigrant rights activist

00:14:35.830 --> 00:14:37.350
who leads the organization

00:14:37.350 --> 00:14:40.020
Northwest Detention
Center Resistance.

00:14:40.020 --> 00:14:43.180
She has engaged in multiple
acts of civil disobedience

00:14:43.180 --> 00:14:46.580
to protest deportations
and immigrant detentions.

00:14:46.580 --> 00:14:48.470
She says, only days
before Christmas,

00:14:48.470 --> 00:14:51.240
she received
a "Notice to Appear."

00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:54.690
She writes, "With the letter
delivered to my house,

00:14:54.690 --> 00:14:58.170
ICE has officially made the leap
from a law enforcement agency

00:14:58.170 --> 00:15:00.960
to a political
repression agency,

00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:03.590
crossing a line that
should concern us all."

00:15:04.690 --> 00:15:07.040
We’ll have more on her
case later in the week.

00:15:07.820 --> 00:15:11.650
Here in New York City, hundreds
gathered to oppose the detention

00:15:11.650 --> 00:15:13.940
and possible deportation
of prominent

00:15:13.940 --> 00:15:18.380
immigrant rights activists
Ravi Ragbir and Jean Montrevil.

00:15:18.380 --> 00:15:20.830
Ravi Ragbir was
detained Thursday

00:15:20.830 --> 00:15:23.720
at a scheduled check-in
with immigration agents.

00:15:23.720 --> 00:15:26.800
He is executive director of the
New Sanctuary Coalition of NYC.

00:15:27.650 --> 00:15:30.310
Just a week prior,
Jean Montrevil,

00:15:30.310 --> 00:15:32.250
another leader
with the organization,

00:15:32.250 --> 00:15:34.670
was detained outside of his home

00:15:34.670 --> 00:15:37.710
and could be deported
as early as today to Haiti.

00:15:38.420 --> 00:15:41.870
On Monday, hundreds circled
Washington Square Park

00:15:41.870 --> 00:15:42.990
in a Jericho walk

00:15:42.990 --> 00:15:45.840
and then gathered at
Judson Memorial Church.

00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:46.910
This is Ravi’s
friend Rhiya Trivedi,

00:15:46.910 --> 00:15:47.840
a member of his
defense committee

00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:49.460
who visited Ravi in detention
in Florida over the weekend.

00:15:49.460 --> 00:15:51.960
She’s reading from a letter
written by Ravi

00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:55.250
entitled "Letter from
an Immigrant Jail."

00:15:55.250 --> 00:15:58.100
Rhiya Trivedi:
"It was a wild and crazy ride.

00:15:58.830 --> 00:16:00.930
Every moment was uncertain

00:16:00.930 --> 00:16:02.540
except the certainty

00:16:02.540 --> 00:16:03.930
that they wanted me gone.

00:16:05.070 --> 00:16:07.720
I’m still here
because of all of you.

00:16:08.650 --> 00:16:12.020
Thank you. I miss everyone.

00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:16.490
I feel very heartbroken
to see how many of you

00:16:17.180 --> 00:16:18.500
are suffering for me,

00:16:19.310 --> 00:16:22.850
how many people were abused
during this process.

00:16:23.490 --> 00:16:28.320
I feel heartbroken that care
for someone evokes violence.

00:16:29.900 --> 00:16:31.970
I want everyone
to stand strong.

00:16:32.940 --> 00:16:37.290
At this moment, we need to speak
about changing the system

00:16:37.290 --> 00:16:39.970
so that no one has to face
this type of harm,

00:16:40.970 --> 00:16:43.870
not just for me
but for all the families

00:16:43.870 --> 00:16:45.810
who face being torn apart.

00:16:47.410 --> 00:16:50.180
Until we get reform,
we need to repeal

00:16:50.180 --> 00:16:53.080
the act that
criminalizes immigrants,

00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:56.100
that makes us less than human
because of a document."

00:16:56.100 --> 00:16:58.620
That was Rhiya Trivedi, a member
of Ravi’s defense committee,

00:16:58.620 --> 00:17:00.920
reading a letter
written by Ravi Ragbir

00:17:00.920 --> 00:17:02.800
while in detention in Florida.

00:17:03.310 --> 00:17:04.550
We’ll have more on Ravi

00:17:04.550 --> 00:17:06.250
and Jean’s cases tomorrow

00:17:06.250 --> 00:17:08.250
on Democracy Now!

00:17:10.020 --> 00:17:12.540
In Florida, prisoners launched
a statewide prison

00:17:12.540 --> 00:17:14.750
strike on Monday,
Martin Luther King Day.

00:17:14.750 --> 00:17:16.470
The prisoners say
they launched the strike

00:17:16.470 --> 00:17:20.050
to protest being used as unpaid
labor during the clean-up

00:17:20.050 --> 00:17:22.500
from the massive
Hurricane Irma last year.

00:17:23.060 --> 00:17:25.720
And communities and
congregations across the country

00:17:25.720 --> 00:17:29.340
marked Martin
Luther King Day on Monday.

00:17:29.340 --> 00:17:31.590
Many pastors and
civil rights leaders

00:17:31.590 --> 00:17:33.290
denounced President
Trump on Monday,

00:17:33.290 --> 00:17:36.220
including Martin Luther
King Jr.’s daughter, Rev.

00:17:36.220 --> 00:17:36.830
Bernice King.

00:17:36.830 --> 00:17:38.060
Rev. Bernice King:

00:17:38.810 --> 00:17:41.540
"Our collective voice
in this hour

00:17:42.590 --> 00:17:44.950
must always be louder

00:17:44.950 --> 00:17:49.980
than the voice of one
who may speak sometimes

00:17:49.980 --> 00:17:52.410
representing
these United States,

00:17:53.040 --> 00:17:56.110
whose words sometimes
do not reflect

00:17:56.110 --> 00:17:58.210
that legacy of my father.

00:17:58.210 --> 00:18:02.000
We cannot allow
the nations of the world

00:18:03.100 --> 00:18:08.300
to embrace the words
that come from our president

00:18:09.490 --> 00:18:13.380
as a reflection of the true
spirit of America."

00:18:14.100 --> 00:18:17.430
That was Martin Luther King
Jr.’s youngest child, Rev.

00:18:17.430 --> 00:18:21.000
Bernice King, speaking at
Ebenezer Baptist Church

00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:22.770
in Atlanta on Monday.

00:18:22.770 --> 00:18:34.540
And those are some of the
headlines this is Democracy

00:18:34.540 --> 00:18:37.810
Now, Democracynow.org,
the War and Peace Report.

00:18:37.810 --> 00:18:39.810
I’m Amy Goodman.

00:18:45.290 --> 00:18:47.220
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: We turn now
to a powerful new book,

00:18:47.220 --> 00:18:49.930
released today, that tells
the story of one woman

00:18:49.930 --> 00:18:52.120
as she fights back
against the impacts

00:18:52.120 --> 00:18:55.490
of social and racial injustice
in America on her family.

00:18:56.250 --> 00:18:58.130
That woman is Patrisse
Khan-Cullors,

00:18:58.790 --> 00:19:01.000
co-founder of
Black Lives Matter.

00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:02.720
The book, titled When They Call

00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:04.650
You a Terrorist:
A Black Lives Matter

00:19:04.650 --> 00:19:07.420
Memoir, is both
an account of survival,

00:19:07.420 --> 00:19:08.820
strength and resilience,

00:19:08.820 --> 00:19:11.590
and a call to action
to change the culture

00:19:11.590 --> 00:19:14.760
that declares innocent
black life expendable.

00:19:14.760 --> 00:19:17.830
Patrisse’s story follows
her childhood in Los Angeles

00:19:17.830 --> 00:19:21.190
in the late 1990s
and early 2000s,

00:19:21.190 --> 00:19:23.120
as her mother worked three jobs,

00:19:23.120 --> 00:19:25.090
struggling to earn
a living wage.

00:19:25.090 --> 00:19:28.170
And it puts a human face
on the way mass incarceration

00:19:28.170 --> 00:19:31.050
and the war on drugs
hurts young black men,

00:19:31.050 --> 00:19:33.330
including her relatives
and friends.

00:19:33.330 --> 00:19:35.870
AMY GOODMAN: Patrisse’s father
was a victim of the drug war.

00:19:35.870 --> 00:19:37.540
He died at the age of 50.

00:19:37.540 --> 00:19:41.210
Her brother spent years
in prison for nonviolent crimes

00:19:41.210 --> 00:19:44.950
stemming from his battles
against mental illness.

00:19:44.950 --> 00:19:47.100
He was once even charged
with terrorism

00:19:47.100 --> 00:19:49.640
after being involved
in a car accident.

00:19:50.300 --> 00:19:53.060
The police would
target Patrisse, too,

00:19:53.060 --> 00:19:56.280
raiding her house
without just cause.

00:19:56.280 --> 00:19:59.260
In 2013, after George Zimmerman
was acquitted

00:19:59.260 --> 00:20:02.070
for the killing
of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin,

00:20:02.070 --> 00:20:04.350
Patrisse co-founded
Black Lives Matter

00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:07.960
along with Alicia Garza
and Opal Tometi.

00:20:09.860 --> 00:20:14.030
The movement began online but
soon spread across the country.

00:20:14.030 --> 00:20:17.520
"Black Lives Matter" became
the rallying cry at protests

00:20:17.520 --> 00:20:21.290
decrying the police killings
of Michael Brown in Ferguson,

00:20:21.290 --> 00:20:25.420
Tamir Rice in Cleveland,
Eric Garner in Staten Island,

00:20:25.420 --> 00:20:27.690
and many others,
including Sandra Bland,

00:20:27.690 --> 00:20:31.930
who died in a Texas jail
after a traffic stop.

00:20:32.690 --> 00:20:36.010
Patrisse Khan-Cullors
joins us in the studio today,

00:20:36.010 --> 00:20:38.550
on the day of the publication
of her new book,

00:20:38.550 --> 00:20:42.370
When They Call You a Terrorist:
A Black Lives Matter Memoir.

00:20:42.950 --> 00:20:45.510
She wrote the book with
the award-winning journalist

00:20:45.510 --> 00:20:48.390
asha bandele,
who also joins us.

00:20:48.390 --> 00:20:50.170
asha is the author
of five books,

00:20:50.170 --> 00:20:53.040
including the best-seller
The Prisoner’s Wife.

00:20:53.040 --> 00:20:56.160
She’s a senior director
at the Drug Policy Alliance.

00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:58.300
Patrisse Khan-Cullors
and asha bandele

00:20:58.300 --> 00:21:02.250
will join us after
this break to talk about

00:21:02.250 --> 00:21:05.890
Patrisse’s remarkable
life story.

00:21:05.890 --> 00:21:08.640
Patrisse Khan-Cullors,
a survivor.

00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:10.640
Stay with us.

00:21:10.640 --> 00:22:16.950
[break]

00:22:16.950 --> 00:22:19.830
AMY GOODMAN: Music recorded
last spring at Judson

00:22:19.830 --> 00:22:23.800
Memorial Church
at a gathering for Ravi Ragbir

00:22:23.800 --> 00:22:27.470
ahead of one of his
check-ins with ICE.

00:22:27.980 --> 00:22:30.230
Last week, he was detained,

00:22:30.230 --> 00:22:33.020
and he is now in
deportation proceedings

00:22:33.020 --> 00:22:34.750
in a jail in Florida.

00:22:35.300 --> 00:22:36.600
This is Democracy Now!,

00:22:36.600 --> 00:22:39.180
democracynow.org,
The War and Peace Report.

00:22:39.180 --> 00:22:41.650
I’m Amy Goodman,
with Juan González.

00:22:41.650 --> 00:22:44.530
Our guests are Patrisse
Khan-Cullors,

00:22:44.530 --> 00:22:47.930
talking about her new book,
released today, When They Call

00:22:47.930 --> 00:22:50.680
You a Terrorist:
A Black Lives Matter Memoir,

00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:53.610
written with the award-winning
journalist asha bandele.

00:22:54.900 --> 00:22:58.800
Patrisse, congratulations.
This is an astounding book.

00:22:58.800 --> 00:22:59.000
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Thank
you.

00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:00.960
AMY GOODMAN: This weekend,
I flew to Colorado

00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:04.860
and then came back yesterday
through Chicago’s snowstorm,

00:23:04.860 --> 00:23:09.220
and everyone on the plane
knew I had misplaced my book,

00:23:09.220 --> 00:23:11.800
because I said, "I must
finish reading this book,"

00:23:11.800 --> 00:23:15.490
until asha kindly sent me the
manuscript on the plane, right?

00:23:15.490 --> 00:23:18.000
And then I said, "OK," to the
pilot, "we can now take off."

00:23:18.940 --> 00:23:22.120
And I read aloud on the—no,
not exactly—on the loudspeaker.

00:23:22.770 --> 00:23:30.140
But the story you have told of
growing up against all the odds—

00:23:30.140 --> 00:23:30.860
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yeah.

00:23:30.860 --> 00:23:35.370
AMY GOODMAN: Tell us where
you were born and place us

00:23:35.370 --> 00:23:37.670
in Los Angeles,
in your community,

00:23:37.670 --> 00:23:40.600
one—next to one
of the richest and whitest

00:23:40.600 --> 00:23:41.870
in the United States.

00:23:41.870 --> 00:23:44.920
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yes.
I was born in Van Nuys,

00:23:44.920 --> 00:23:45.800
California,

00:23:45.800 --> 00:23:48.030
which is not known,

00:23:48.030 --> 00:23:50.600
but it’s a suburb outside
of Los Angeles inner city.

00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:56.700
And it was literally in between
multiple white neighborhoods,

00:23:56.700 --> 00:23:59.160
including Sherman Oaks,
Studio City, Northridge.

00:23:59.960 --> 00:24:03.860
And I witnessed
consistent policing,

00:24:03.860 --> 00:24:05.180
militarized policing.

00:24:06.220 --> 00:24:10.170
I witnessed the impact
mass incarceration

00:24:10.170 --> 00:24:11.600
had on my family members.

00:24:12.380 --> 00:24:14.800
And the most early
memories for me

00:24:15.360 --> 00:24:19.060
were my home being raided
by LAPD and LAPD

00:24:19.060 --> 00:24:21.150
lighting up my siblings
and their friends,

00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:24.840
at 11, 13 years old,
stopping and frisking them.

00:24:24.840 --> 00:24:27.580
And this became our normal
in our neighborhood,

00:24:27.580 --> 00:24:30.000
even though I knew
it was not normal.

00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:31.590
AMY GOODMAN: How did you know?

00:24:31.590 --> 00:24:34.170
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Because
I could feel the humiliation

00:24:34.170 --> 00:24:37.830
in every stop,
in every moment LAPD was around.

00:24:37.830 --> 00:24:40.760
I could feel the impact
it had on my mother.

00:24:40.760 --> 00:24:42.890
I could feel it
in our community.

00:24:42.890 --> 00:24:45.440
And I knew that we shouldn’t
be living this way.

00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:47.460
I knew that there
was more for us.

00:24:47.460 --> 00:24:49.730
And then I ended up going
to a mostly white school,

00:24:50.320 --> 00:24:52.760
and I got to see the
very real difference

00:24:52.760 --> 00:24:54.810
between how they were treated,

00:24:55.400 --> 00:24:58.460
and never actually witnessing
police in their neighborhoods,

00:24:58.460 --> 00:25:01.160
and then how my family
and my community was treated.

00:25:01.160 --> 00:25:02.020
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Yeah, I wanted
to ask you about that.

00:25:02.020 --> 00:25:04.240
You write so eloquently
about the differences.

00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:06.310
This was in the middle school
that you went there.

00:25:06.310 --> 00:25:09.570
And the—talk about
some of the examples

00:25:09.570 --> 00:25:10.800
of the difference in treatment

00:25:10.800 --> 00:25:13.110
between that mostly upper-

00:25:13.110 --> 00:25:15.930
and middle-class white
community, so close to yours,

00:25:15.930 --> 00:25:17.620
and the way
your own neighborhood

00:25:17.620 --> 00:25:19.400
was being dealt with.

00:25:19.400 --> 00:25:21.670
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: I mean,
it was just in the school

00:25:21.670 --> 00:25:22.240
itself.

00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:23.780
It was not policed.

00:25:23.780 --> 00:25:26.770
There were no cops on campus,

00:25:26.770 --> 00:25:29.140
compared to the middle school

00:25:29.140 --> 00:25:30.900
that I went to
for summer school,

00:25:30.900 --> 00:25:35.200
which was the first time
I was arrested, at 12 years old.

00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:36.000
AMY GOODMAN: You can name
your schools.

00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:37.300
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Millikan
Middle School was

00:25:37.300 --> 00:25:38.020
in Sherman Oaks,

00:25:38.020 --> 00:25:39.980
which was the upper-middle-
class middle school

00:25:39.980 --> 00:25:42.290
with mostly white folks.

00:25:42.290 --> 00:25:46.580
And Van Nuys Middle School
was mostly working-class,

00:25:46.580 --> 00:25:49.730
poor, immigrant communities
and black folks.

00:25:49.730 --> 00:25:51.410
And it was just literal.

00:25:51.410 --> 00:25:55.160
I mean, one looks like a prison,
and one looks like a university.

00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:58.690
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And one had
metal detectors.

00:25:59.360 --> 00:26:02.080
And could you talk about
the experience of one time

00:26:02.080 --> 00:26:06.460
you were arrested in
the—in that summer school?

00:26:07.040 --> 00:26:10.260
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yes.
I was arrested because

00:26:11.210 --> 00:26:13.330
I was—had been smoking
weed in the bathroom.

00:26:13.330 --> 00:26:15.880
And at Millikan,
you could do that,

00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:18.730
and no one was checking
for you, worried about you.

00:26:18.730 --> 00:26:19.620
AMY GOODMAN: You mean
the white school.

00:26:19.620 --> 00:26:20.610
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: At
Millikan, the white school

00:26:20.610 --> 00:26:21.780
in Sherman Oaks, yes.

00:26:21.780 --> 00:26:23.190
It just sounds like
a white school: Millikan.

00:26:25.520 --> 00:26:27.330
And at Van Nuys—

00:26:27.910 --> 00:26:29.650
AMY GOODMAN: And lots of girls
did it.

00:26:29.650 --> 00:26:30.120
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yeah.

00:26:30.120 --> 00:26:31.790
I mean, all the
white girls did it.

00:26:31.790 --> 00:26:34.650
I mean, that’s actually
who introduced weed to me,

00:26:34.650 --> 00:26:36.590
was the white girls.

00:26:36.590 --> 00:26:42.230
And Van Nuys Middle School
was mostly,

00:26:42.230 --> 00:26:44.450
like I said, working-class,
communities of color.

00:26:45.090 --> 00:26:48.890
And I was—a cop
came into my classroom.

00:26:48.890 --> 00:26:50.360
It was my science class.

00:26:50.950 --> 00:26:54.160
And when I—as a younger person,

00:26:54.160 --> 00:26:56.280
when I saw law enforcement,
I feared them.

00:26:56.280 --> 00:26:59.290
There was already sort of
that emotional response.

00:27:00.420 --> 00:27:02.950
The entire classroom
got kind of tight.

00:27:02.950 --> 00:27:04.470
And the science—you know,

00:27:04.470 --> 00:27:07.040
the cop whispered in
the science teacher’s ear,

00:27:07.570 --> 00:27:09.370
and the science teacher
called me up to the class.

00:27:09.370 --> 00:27:11.630
He handcuffed me
in front of my classroom

00:27:11.630 --> 00:27:13.590
and then walked me
down a hallway.

00:27:13.590 --> 00:27:15.110
AMY GOODMAN: You were
12 years old.

00:27:15.110 --> 00:27:16.780
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: I was
12 years old.

00:27:16.780 --> 00:27:19.040
And all I can think
about—because when you’re 12,

00:27:19.580 --> 00:27:22.220
I wasn’t thinking about
the political, you know,

00:27:22.220 --> 00:27:23.480
analysis of the moment.

00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:26.040
I was thinking about:
What is my mother going to say?

00:27:26.040 --> 00:27:27.600
What am I going
to tell my mother?

00:27:27.600 --> 00:27:29.280
Which I lied through my teeth.

00:27:29.280 --> 00:27:30.910
But it wasn’t until I got older

00:27:30.910 --> 00:27:33.520
that I realized
the impact of that moment

00:27:33.520 --> 00:27:37.180
and the impact that would have
on me for the rest of my life.

00:27:37.180 --> 00:27:39.510
AMY GOODMAN: You also
describe your brothers

00:27:39.510 --> 00:27:42.170
and the places you
all had to hang out,

00:27:42.170 --> 00:27:46.400
very limited—you didn’t have
the playgrounds of Sherman Oaks,

00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:50.210
rec centers,
arts programs—and the police

00:27:50.210 --> 00:27:52.770
moving in on them
when they were kids.

00:27:52.770 --> 00:27:55.100
You were right nearby.
You were like what? Nine?

00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:57.060
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yeah, 9
years old.

00:27:57.060 --> 00:27:58.540
I was 9 years old, yeah.

00:27:58.540 --> 00:28:01.270
And once again,
when you’re a child,

00:28:01.270 --> 00:28:03.770
you just pick the places
that are most convenient.

00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:05.740
That was alleyways.

00:28:05.740 --> 00:28:07.020
That was the front
of our building.

00:28:08.630 --> 00:28:10.420
Sometimes it was in our homes.

00:28:10.420 --> 00:28:12.500
But it was—you know, when you’re
a child, you’re playing.

00:28:12.500 --> 00:28:14.050
You want to play outside.

00:28:14.050 --> 00:28:19.510
And because of the war on gangs,
because of gang injunctions,

00:28:20.530 --> 00:28:22.550
the boys, specifically,
in my neighborhood,

00:28:22.550 --> 00:28:23.930
were labeled as gang members.

00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:27.670
And my brother
will tell the story,

00:28:27.670 --> 00:28:29.900
which is, they never
considered themselves a gang,

00:28:29.900 --> 00:28:31.640
until the police
called them a gang,

00:28:32.150 --> 00:28:33.910
that that’s not how
they related to themselves.

00:28:33.910 --> 00:28:36.190
They were a bunch
of boys hanging out.

00:28:36.190 --> 00:28:39.070
And those—and at 9 years old,

00:28:39.070 --> 00:28:42.650
bearing witness to
that type of humiliation

00:28:42.650 --> 00:28:44.650
has an impact on you.

00:28:45.430 --> 00:28:47.040
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, asha
bandele,

00:28:47.040 --> 00:28:49.010
what made you decide
that you thought

00:28:49.010 --> 00:28:50.570
this was an important
story to tell,

00:28:50.570 --> 00:28:51.790
if you could talk
about that, as well,

00:28:51.790 --> 00:28:53.710
and how you first came together?

00:28:54.720 --> 00:28:56.940
ASHA BANDELE: So, Patrisse and I
had known each other

00:28:56.940 --> 00:29:00.340
for a good number
of years as organizers.

00:29:00.340 --> 00:29:04.220
And I thought it was
monumentally important

00:29:04.220 --> 00:29:07.060
to go behind the statistics

00:29:07.060 --> 00:29:11.950
and unpack the real-world story
of the impact of the drug war

00:29:11.950 --> 00:29:14.080
and mass incarceration
on people’s lives.

00:29:14.080 --> 00:29:16.690
It’s sort of what
I’ve dedicated my life to,

00:29:16.690 --> 00:29:20.080
as, you know, someone who had
family members in prison

00:29:20.820 --> 00:29:22.300
and as somebody who has seen

00:29:22.300 --> 00:29:25.020
the human cost of
mass incarceration.

00:29:25.020 --> 00:29:29.010
I wanted Patrisse to tell her
story in a full, complete way.

00:29:29.010 --> 00:29:32.990
And I was especially enraged
that Black Lives Matter

00:29:32.990 --> 00:29:35.060
and the leaders of
Black Lives Matter

00:29:35.060 --> 00:29:36.410
had been called terrorists,

00:29:36.410 --> 00:29:37.960
when I knew that
these were people

00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:41.430
dedicated deeply to peace
in our communities,

00:29:41.430 --> 00:29:42.820
peace for our children.

00:29:42.820 --> 00:29:45.450
I knew the impact Patrisse
had on my own daughter,

00:29:45.450 --> 00:29:47.330
of love and of peace.

00:29:47.330 --> 00:29:49.290
And I wanted people to see that.

00:29:49.850 --> 00:29:54.230
I don’t think that you
get to misname people.

00:29:54.830 --> 00:29:58.830
And I think that the history
of who we are needs to be told

00:29:58.830 --> 00:30:00.250
and needs to be documented.

00:30:00.250 --> 00:30:04.360
And that’s my dedication
as a writer and as an organizer.

00:30:04.360 --> 00:30:07.140
AMY GOODMAN: Patrisse, I want
people to meet your family

00:30:07.140 --> 00:30:08.760
the way you
introduce them to us,

00:30:08.760 --> 00:30:11.350
because that’s really
the point of this book,

00:30:11.350 --> 00:30:13.230
is people speaking
for themselves,

00:30:13.230 --> 00:30:15.710
your unique experiences
and the difference

00:30:15.710 --> 00:30:19.290
in how you grow up in this
country from other communities.

00:30:19.290 --> 00:30:21.770
Can you introduce us
to your mothers,

00:30:21.770 --> 00:30:25.180
your fathers,
your brothers, your sister?

00:30:25.180 --> 00:30:29.380
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yes.
Cherice Foley, who is my mother,

00:30:29.380 --> 00:30:33.880
a brilliant woman who
literally raised four children

00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:37.580
on her own in
the middle of the '80s,

00:30:37.580 --> 00:30:41.150
’90s, she is powerful.

00:30:41.150 --> 00:30:43.060
I mean, she's
literally powerful.

00:30:43.870 --> 00:30:46.920
Monte Cullors, who was
my first best friend,

00:30:48.100 --> 00:30:52.840
who was criminalized
very early on—Monte’s first time

00:30:52.840 --> 00:30:54.600
in juvenile hall
was 13 years old,

00:30:55.100 --> 00:30:58.520
and he would spend from 13

00:30:58.520 --> 00:31:02.920
’til 36 in and out
of juvenile hall,

00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:04.650
prisons and lockdown facilities,

00:31:04.650 --> 00:31:07.880
simply because of his mental
illness and the war on drugs.

00:31:08.590 --> 00:31:12.130
My brother Paul Cullors,
who was a parent to us,

00:31:12.130 --> 00:31:13.550
as my mother worked three,

00:31:13.550 --> 00:31:17.040
sometimes four, jobs,
and also has become

00:31:17.040 --> 00:31:19.650
my security—he’s
a security guard,

00:31:19.650 --> 00:31:21.980
so he does my security
in Los Angeles.

00:31:21.980 --> 00:31:24.390
He’s pretty much
my first protector.

00:31:25.550 --> 00:31:29.650
My sister Jasmine Cullors,
who—in a lot of ways,

00:31:29.650 --> 00:31:32.980
we kind of kept her from so much

00:31:32.980 --> 00:31:35.050
of what we witnessed
and experienced.

00:31:35.050 --> 00:31:36.660
We protected her.

00:31:36.660 --> 00:31:39.670
And my two fathers—
my biological father,

00:31:39.670 --> 00:31:43.480
Gabriel Brignac, who I met
when I was 11 years old,

00:31:44.360 --> 00:31:46.100
that I detail in the story

00:31:46.100 --> 00:31:48.250
and always kind of knew

00:31:48.250 --> 00:31:49.910
someone else was out there,

00:31:49.910 --> 00:31:52.050
always asked questions
of my mother,

00:31:52.050 --> 00:31:54.740
but got to meet
his brilliance at 11

00:31:54.740 --> 00:31:58.430
and learned so much about myself
because of him and my family.

00:31:58.430 --> 00:32:01.610
And Alton Cullors,
the father who raised me,

00:32:01.610 --> 00:32:04.850
who is—used to work
at the GM Van Nuys plant,

00:32:05.700 --> 00:32:09.870
and was shut down and was
forced into taking jobs

00:32:09.870 --> 00:32:11.490
that were not so meaningful,

00:32:12.260 --> 00:32:15.190
and now owns a mechanic shop
in Las Vegas.

00:32:16.910 --> 00:32:18.420
AMY GOODMAN: If you can
talk about Monte

00:32:19.420 --> 00:32:21.040
and your experience—well,

00:32:21.980 --> 00:32:25.740
first, he’s—after he’s arrested,
before he’s diagnosed,

00:32:25.740 --> 00:32:27.190
what this all means,

00:32:27.190 --> 00:32:29.600
and then this
unbelievable moment

00:32:29.600 --> 00:32:32.170
where you decide
to call in the police,

00:32:32.170 --> 00:32:33.820
after he’s back from jail?

00:32:33.820 --> 00:32:36.040
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yeah.

00:32:36.040 --> 00:32:39.680
Monte—we didn’t know Monte was
suffering from mental illness.

00:32:40.650 --> 00:32:43.340
Unfortunate reality is
many communities of color,

00:32:44.220 --> 00:32:45.480
working-class poor communities,

00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:47.740
we don’t have people
coming in and educating us

00:32:47.740 --> 00:32:49.720
about the crisis
of mental health.

00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:53.280
And so, we just thought some—we
didn’t know what was wrong.

00:32:53.280 --> 00:32:57.450
We didn’t. And when Monte
was arrested for a robbery

00:32:57.450 --> 00:33:01.350
and when he was 18 years old,
broke someone’s window,

00:33:01.350 --> 00:33:02.890
he said the voices
told him to do it,

00:33:03.500 --> 00:33:07.190
and ended up going to
prison for three years.

00:33:07.760 --> 00:33:10.240
In his stay in prison,
he was tortured

00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:11.980
by the Los Angeles
Sheriff’s Department,

00:33:11.980 --> 00:33:13.440
brutally beaten.

00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:15.010
And—

00:33:15.010 --> 00:33:16.340
AMY GOODMAN: Your mother first
seeing him—she

00:33:16.340 --> 00:33:17.990
couldn’t even find where he was.

00:33:17.990 --> 00:33:19.500
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: No, no,
they disappeared him.

00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:23.760
And this is actually—was
a common practice of the L.A.

00:33:23.760 --> 00:33:27.800
County Sheriff’s Department.
It’s disappearing prisoners.

00:33:27.800 --> 00:33:31.740
And when she finally saw him,
two months later,

00:33:31.740 --> 00:33:32.520
he was emaciated.

00:33:32.520 --> 00:33:35.240
My brother is 6’2",
almost 300 pounds.

00:33:35.860 --> 00:33:37.740
They had completely
overmedicated him.

00:33:38.780 --> 00:33:43.340
And we would learn,
later on, years later,

00:33:43.340 --> 00:33:46.220
just what he endured
in that jail cell.

00:33:46.950 --> 00:33:49.570
When he was released,
when he was 23 years old,

00:33:49.570 --> 00:33:52.690
it was one of the most
exciting days of my life.

00:33:52.690 --> 00:33:55.400
I get to see my brother.
I hadn’t seen him in years.

00:33:55.400 --> 00:33:57.030
We didn’t know that
we could visit people.

00:33:57.030 --> 00:33:59.430
You know, they don’t give you
sort of what are the steps

00:33:59.430 --> 00:34:00.720
when your loved one
is incarcerated.

00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:02.890
We didn’t realize that
we could go visit him,

00:34:02.890 --> 00:34:05.150
so we didn’t see him
for four years.

00:34:05.150 --> 00:34:06.720
We just wrote a lot of letters.

00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:09.970
And the first thing
that I noticed

00:34:09.970 --> 00:34:11.250
when I picked him up
from the bus stop

00:34:11.250 --> 00:34:14.140
is they let him out
in flip-flops,

00:34:14.870 --> 00:34:16.490
an undershirt and boxers.

00:34:17.510 --> 00:34:22.490
And I just—I was—I was
so disturbed, like I couldn’t—

00:34:22.490 --> 00:34:24.320
AMY GOODMAN: He was at the bus
station in boxer shorts?

00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:26.360
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: He was in
boxer shorts and a white T-shirt

00:34:26.990 --> 00:34:30.990
and flip-flops,
which—shower shoes, essentially.

00:34:31.540 --> 00:34:34.390
And I ushered him in the car.

00:34:34.390 --> 00:34:35.670
And he was acting
very different.

00:34:35.670 --> 00:34:38.300
It was not the brother that
went inside and that I knew.

00:34:38.970 --> 00:34:41.180
And the minute he got into
the house, my mother said,

00:34:41.180 --> 00:34:43.360
"This is—something’s wrong
with my son."

00:34:43.900 --> 00:34:46.310
And, you know, as every child,
I was like, "Mom, be quiet.

00:34:46.310 --> 00:34:48.430
He just got out of prison.
Like just give him some time."

00:34:48.430 --> 00:34:53.280
And over a week, he slowly—he
quickly deteriorated.

00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:55.200
And I didn’t know who to call.

00:34:55.200 --> 00:34:58.690
And eventually
I called the ambulance,

00:34:58.690 --> 00:35:02.320
and I made the unfortunate
choice to tell them

00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:04.410
that my brother had
just been released from jail.

00:35:04.410 --> 00:35:05.980
They said, "Well,
that’s not our problem;

00:35:05.980 --> 00:35:07.490
you have to call the police."

00:35:07.490 --> 00:35:09.540
And I said, "I can’t call
the police on my brother.

00:35:09.540 --> 00:35:12.800
You have no"—you know, this is
before Black Lives Matter,

00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:14.280
before we’ve seen, you know,

00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:16.940
black people be killed
at the hands of law enforcement,

00:35:16.940 --> 00:35:18.850
especially black people
with mental illness.

00:35:18.850 --> 00:35:21.890
But I just knew that that
was not the right choice.

00:35:21.890 --> 00:35:23.400
But I didn’t have
anybody else to call,

00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:26.570
and I did call the police.
And I talked them through,

00:35:26.570 --> 00:35:28.430
and I let them know
what was happening.

00:35:28.430 --> 00:35:29.850
And the first thing
they said to me—I said,

00:35:29.850 --> 00:35:32.430
"What happens if my brother
happens to get violent?"

00:35:32.430 --> 00:35:34.020
And they said,
"We’ll just taser him."

00:35:34.020 --> 00:35:35.230
I mean, just like flat-faced—

00:35:35.230 --> 00:35:36.580
AMY GOODMAN: These are two
young cops who came.

00:35:36.580 --> 00:35:37.600
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Two young
rookie cops,

00:35:37.600 --> 00:35:39.290
clearly scared
out of their minds.

00:35:39.980 --> 00:35:42.060
And I said,
"You cannot taser him.

00:35:42.060 --> 00:35:43.800
Like, that’s not—that’s
unacceptable."

00:35:44.920 --> 00:35:47.160
They walked into my house,
and the minute they walked in,

00:35:47.160 --> 00:35:50.970
my brother just put his hands up
and went on his knees

00:35:50.970 --> 00:35:54.430
and just started begging them.

00:35:54.430 --> 00:35:56.640
You know, he just
started begging them.

00:35:56.640 --> 00:35:59.460
And I just knew
I made a mistake.

00:35:59.460 --> 00:36:00.650
I just knew I made a mistake.

00:36:00.650 --> 00:36:03.040
And I, you know,
held my brother.

00:36:03.040 --> 00:36:04.530
I said, "It’s OK."
And I told them to leave.

00:36:05.150 --> 00:36:07.840
And it was in that moment that I
realized that we’re on our own,

00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:10.560
that we are literally
on our own,

00:36:10.560 --> 00:36:15.130
and there is no infrastructure
for black poor families

00:36:15.130 --> 00:36:16.620
when dealing with
mental illness.

00:36:16.620 --> 00:36:17.590
There’s just none.

00:36:17.590 --> 00:36:20.890
And we had to piece
the infrastructure together.

00:36:20.890 --> 00:36:22.630
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And the—talk
about the time

00:36:22.630 --> 00:36:23.830
that he was charged
with terrorism.

00:36:25.210 --> 00:36:28.020
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yeah,
it was in those years,

00:36:28.020 --> 00:36:30.650
as he was off
and on his medication.

00:36:30.650 --> 00:36:32.660
He was in a fender bender.

00:36:32.660 --> 00:36:34.680
And he was in the middle
of a manic episode.

00:36:35.950 --> 00:36:38.910
And he might have cursed
at the woman, might have not.

00:36:38.910 --> 00:36:41.070
We don’t know. We weren’t there.

00:36:41.660 --> 00:36:44.280
But the woman claimed
that he had cursed at her.

00:36:44.870 --> 00:36:48.170
And because my brother
was a second striker,

00:36:48.770 --> 00:36:52.230
then because they said that the
cursing was threatening, they—

00:36:52.230 --> 00:36:53.850
AMY GOODMAN: Explain what you
mean by "second striker."

00:36:54.430 --> 00:36:58.370
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: He has
had two strikes on his record,

00:36:58.370 --> 00:37:00.860
which is part of the three
strikes law, and was—

00:37:00.860 --> 00:37:01.310
AMY GOODMAN: In California.

00:37:01.310 --> 00:37:03.330
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: In
California—and could end up

00:37:03.330 --> 00:37:05.750
getting—if he were to receive
his third strike,

00:37:05.750 --> 00:37:08.000
end up in jail for life. And—

00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:10.310
AMY GOODMAN: Even if that third
strike is stealing a candy bar.

00:37:10.310 --> 00:37:11.380
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Stealing
a candy bar,

00:37:11.380 --> 00:37:12.730
getting in a fender bender.

00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:16.560
So, we went to court,

00:37:17.180 --> 00:37:20.180
when we finally found
where my brother was.

00:37:20.180 --> 00:37:24.120
We went to that first court
date, and the lawyer said,

00:37:24.120 --> 00:37:27.630
"You know, your brother is being
charged with terrorist threats,

00:37:27.630 --> 00:37:28.890
and that is a felony.

00:37:29.710 --> 00:37:32.910
And they will probably
be putting him away

00:37:32.910 --> 00:37:34.700
for the rest of his life."

00:37:34.700 --> 00:37:37.580
And he was 24, 24 years old.

00:37:37.580 --> 00:37:40.230
And I said,
"That’s not—not on my watch."

00:37:41.410 --> 00:37:42.630
AMY GOODMAN: And you’re a kid.
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yes.

00:37:42.630 --> 00:37:44.170
AMY GOODMAN: You’re a kid
through all of this.

00:37:44.680 --> 00:37:46.680
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yeah
, yes.

00:37:47.220 --> 00:37:49.920
AMY GOODMAN: You describe
a scene

00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:52.550
where you’re
in the white school,

00:37:52.550 --> 00:37:55.020
and so you’re making
some white girlfriends,

00:37:56.300 --> 00:37:57.630
who you really cared about.

00:37:58.130 --> 00:38:01.870
And you describe going
to one of their homes

00:38:02.640 --> 00:38:03.960
and the lovely,

00:38:03.960 --> 00:38:07.810
unbelievable scene
that unfolds at dinner

00:38:07.810 --> 00:38:09.690
and the way they respected you.

00:38:09.690 --> 00:38:11.120
Describe what happened.

00:38:11.120 --> 00:38:14.680
Describe the dad of the family
and how he treated you.

00:38:15.580 --> 00:38:17.890
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yes,
this is—was one

00:38:17.890 --> 00:38:19.820
of my closest friends,

00:38:19.820 --> 00:38:21.290
growing up, in middle school.

00:38:21.290 --> 00:38:23.840
And you become friends
with the people

00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:25.240
that are in proximity to you.

00:38:25.240 --> 00:38:27.690
So, it was a significantly
white program,

00:38:27.690 --> 00:38:29.180
significantly white school.

00:38:29.180 --> 00:38:30.480
Those are my friends.

00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:32.870
And I went back
to this friend’s house

00:38:32.870 --> 00:38:34.780
and what looked like
a mansion to me.

00:38:34.780 --> 00:38:36.260
It’s probably not
that big of a house,

00:38:36.260 --> 00:38:39.770
but compared to our neighborhood
and tiny apartment,

00:38:39.770 --> 00:38:41.750
this house looked
like a mansion.

00:38:41.750 --> 00:38:46.030
And we were all at dinner.
And the father is jolly.

00:38:46.030 --> 00:38:48.390
I mean, honestly,
like probably—he looked

00:38:48.390 --> 00:38:49.660
like the original Santa Claus,

00:38:49.660 --> 00:38:53.950
like big, jolly white man
with a beard and super sweet

00:38:53.950 --> 00:38:56.030
and a smile on his face
all the time.

00:38:56.030 --> 00:38:57.280
And we’re talking, you know,

00:38:57.280 --> 00:39:00.320
and I’ve never been
in a scenario like this,

00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:01.810
where you sit around
and have dinner,

00:39:01.810 --> 00:39:05.760
and people pass things
and ask questions of you.

00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:08.850
And he’s, you know—and we get
to a point in the conversation

00:39:08.850 --> 00:39:11.600
where he—I don’t know how.

00:39:11.600 --> 00:39:13.810
Maybe he asked me,
because oftentimes, you know,

00:39:13.810 --> 00:39:16.030
middle-class parents
ask what your family does.

00:39:16.030 --> 00:39:17.900
And I’m talking about my mother,

00:39:17.900 --> 00:39:20.250
and he says—you know,
repeats my mother’s name,

00:39:20.250 --> 00:39:23.050
"Cherice. Where do you live?"
And I tell him my address.

00:39:23.050 --> 00:39:24.740
He says, "Oh, I own
those apartments."

00:39:25.570 --> 00:39:28.650
And my heart dropped,
because it was the apartment

00:39:28.650 --> 00:39:30.590
that I lived in that

00:39:30.590 --> 00:39:32.140
we didn’t have
a refrigerator for a year,

00:39:32.860 --> 00:39:36.310
that sometimes
appliances didn’t work,

00:39:36.310 --> 00:39:40.110
that we—I realized very quickly
that that was our slumlord.

00:39:40.820 --> 00:39:46.170
And the contradiction in that
moment, it was hard to settle,

00:39:46.170 --> 00:39:47.520
and a tension in that moment
started to develop.

00:39:47.520 --> 00:39:50.060
AMY GOODMAN: Because he was the
first person who said to you,

00:39:50.060 --> 00:39:53.140
"Patrisse"—before you learned
he was your slumlord—"what do

00:39:53.140 --> 00:39:54.430
you want to do with your life?"
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yes.

00:39:54.430 --> 00:39:55.380
AMY GOODMAN: "What are
your plans?"

00:39:55.380 --> 00:39:55.470
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yes.

00:39:55.470 --> 00:39:56.650
AMY GOODMAN: "How are you
going to execute them?"

00:39:56.650 --> 00:39:58.590
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Exactly,
exactly.

00:39:59.210 --> 00:40:03.830
And yeah, what do you do
with those moments,

00:40:04.520 --> 00:40:09.460
when the person who clearly
has investment in you

00:40:09.460 --> 00:40:12.800
doesn’t actually have investment
in your entire family

00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:15.140
and an infrastructure that
your family is living in?

00:40:17.780 --> 00:40:19.430
It’s hard to manage.

00:40:19.990 --> 00:40:22.730
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: You also
described, at a point,

00:40:22.730 --> 00:40:25.460
inviting a friend from that
other world to your house,

00:40:25.460 --> 00:40:27.770
and him coming into your house,

00:40:27.770 --> 00:40:29.850
and the ambulance
in the background—

00:40:29.850 --> 00:40:29.950
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yeah.

00:40:29.950 --> 00:40:31.260
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: —that you just
took for granted.

00:40:31.260 --> 00:40:31.360
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yes.

00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:33.240
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And he
suddenly remarks,

00:40:33.240 --> 00:40:35.180
"I didn’t know you live like
this," or something like that.

00:40:35.180 --> 00:40:35.270
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yeah.

00:40:35.270 --> 00:40:35.910
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Could you
talk about that?

00:40:35.910 --> 00:40:37.860
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: That’s
exactly what happened.

00:40:37.860 --> 00:40:39.690
And, you know, I think
what’s interesting

00:40:39.690 --> 00:40:41.910
about growing up black and poor

00:40:41.910 --> 00:40:46.040
is you don’t actually
realize how bad it is

00:40:46.040 --> 00:40:48.060
until you see what else
someone else has.

00:40:48.680 --> 00:40:51.170
And my mother was
very particular

00:40:51.170 --> 00:40:53.230
about who we let over.
And I begged her.

00:40:53.230 --> 00:40:54.620
I begged her
to let my friend over.

00:40:54.620 --> 00:40:56.500
He was my best friend.

00:40:56.500 --> 00:40:59.010
You know, I didn’t think
there would be any judgment.

00:40:59.010 --> 00:41:00.790
I didn’t assume there
would be any judgment.

00:41:01.330 --> 00:41:02.990
And there definitely was.

00:41:02.990 --> 00:41:04.910
And he walked in my home.

00:41:04.910 --> 00:41:06.770
And I remember
that day so vividly,

00:41:06.770 --> 00:41:08.630
because there was the
ambulance in the background.

00:41:08.630 --> 00:41:10.830
I was like, "Why does the
ambulance have to be here today?

00:41:10.830 --> 00:41:12.350
Why the sirens today?"

00:41:12.950 --> 00:41:15.330
And I was nervous
about him coming in.

00:41:15.940 --> 00:41:18.100
And he walked into
my living room,

00:41:18.100 --> 00:41:20.150
and I was sitting
on the couch.

00:41:20.150 --> 00:41:22.090
And he said—kind of
looked around.

00:41:22.090 --> 00:41:23.870
He was like, "I didn’t know
you live like this."

00:41:24.870 --> 00:41:26.930
And I got that—I got that a lot

00:41:26.930 --> 00:41:29.290
from other
middle-class children,

00:41:29.290 --> 00:41:31.400
because they only
know their world,

00:41:32.440 --> 00:41:34.340
and they don’t have
to actually enter

00:41:34.340 --> 00:41:35.930
the world of
communities of color

00:41:35.930 --> 00:41:37.840
and of poor communities,
in particular.

00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:39.310
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And you also
describe that Van Nuys

00:41:39.310 --> 00:41:43.310
was a racially
mixed neighborhood,

00:41:43.310 --> 00:41:44.900
a large Mexican-American
community.

00:41:44.900 --> 00:41:45.010
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yes.

00:41:45.010 --> 00:41:46.190
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: There were
Korean Americans.

00:41:46.190 --> 00:41:47.960
There were even
a few white folks

00:41:47.960 --> 00:41:49.040
who lived in the neighborhood.

00:41:49.040 --> 00:41:50.730
Talk about that
experience, as well.

00:41:50.730 --> 00:41:53.760
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yeah,
I grew up mostly around Latinos.

00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:59.560
And my community—my experience
with both law enforcement

00:41:59.560 --> 00:42:01.030
and witnessing what was then

00:42:01.030 --> 00:42:03.360
INS,

00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:05.040
Immigration National Security,

00:42:05.040 --> 00:42:08.160
was really prominent.

00:42:08.160 --> 00:42:11.150
And I think it was
important, you know,

00:42:11.150 --> 00:42:13.740
to grow up in such
a multiracial environment.

00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:17.990
Many of us, our family
members were getting,

00:42:17.990 --> 00:42:19.200
you know, social welfare.

00:42:19.200 --> 00:42:21.240
Many of our family members
were getting food stamps,

00:42:21.240 --> 00:42:23.380
when they actually
looked like stamps

00:42:23.380 --> 00:42:25.380
and they looked colored.

00:42:26.150 --> 00:42:28.090
And like, we grew up
in this environment,

00:42:28.090 --> 00:42:29.680
and we really
raised each other,

00:42:29.680 --> 00:42:32.230
and we really took
care of each other.

00:42:32.230 --> 00:42:35.130
And it colored—I think
it really colors

00:42:35.130 --> 00:42:37.210
how I am in this movement.

00:42:38.100 --> 00:42:39.640
We have to take care
of each other.

00:42:40.260 --> 00:42:43.440
We didn’t have local
government taking care of us.

00:42:44.220 --> 00:42:46.000
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to
break, and when we come back,

00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:48.280
what it meant to come out
in your community,

00:42:48.280 --> 00:42:50.760
with your family,
with your friends;

00:42:53.060 --> 00:42:55.930
your response to
Trayvon Martin’s death

00:42:55.930 --> 00:42:57.670
and George Zimmerman
being acquitted;

00:42:57.670 --> 00:43:00.670
how you came up
with that hashtag,

00:43:00.670 --> 00:43:02.290
#BlackLivesMatter.

00:43:02.790 --> 00:43:04.310
And we want to talk with asha

00:43:04.310 --> 00:43:08.830
about how this story
shows us the stories

00:43:08.830 --> 00:43:10.910
about the effects
of drug policy

00:43:10.910 --> 00:43:12.250
and mass incarceration.

00:43:12.860 --> 00:43:15.510
Today is the day
that a remarkable book

00:43:15.510 --> 00:43:17.440
has just come out,

00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:21.860
When They Call You a Terrorist:
A Black Lives Matter Memoir.

00:43:21.860 --> 00:43:23.750
It’s by our guests today,

00:43:23.750 --> 00:43:26.780
Patrisse Khan-Cullors
and asha bandele.

00:43:26.780 --> 00:43:28.990
This is Democracy Now!
Back with them in a moment.

00:43:28.990 --> 00:45:13.990
[break]

00:45:13.990 --> 00:45:16.210
AMY GOODMAN: "Forgive Them,
Father" by Lauryn Hill.

00:45:16.210 --> 00:45:19.460
Our guests today
are Patrisse Khan-Cullors,

00:45:19.460 --> 00:45:23.930
co-founder of Black
Lives Matter, and asha bandele.

00:45:23.930 --> 00:45:26.460
Together, they have
written the book,

00:45:26.460 --> 00:45:30.320
the memoir of Patrisse’ life;
it’s called When They Call

00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:33.350
You a Terrorist:
A Black Lives Matter Memoir.

00:45:33.350 --> 00:45:35.350
I’m Amy Goodman,
with Juan González.

00:45:36.050 --> 00:45:39.910
Patrisse, why don’t you
just read from your book?

00:45:39.910 --> 00:45:43.170
Aside from the astonishing
story you tell,

00:45:44.180 --> 00:45:45.600
it is so beautifully written.

00:45:48.380 --> 00:45:50.480
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Chapter
11, Black Lives Matter.

00:45:51.560 --> 00:45:55.370
This was a teenager
just trying to get home.

00:45:55.370 --> 00:45:57.270
Sybrina Fulton.

00:45:57.270 --> 00:45:59.940
“It is July 13, 2013,

00:45:59.940 --> 00:46:02.090
and I have stepped away
from monitoring events

00:46:02.090 --> 00:46:04.100
at the trial of the man
who killed Trayvon Martin,

00:46:04.650 --> 00:46:06.890
17, a year and a half before.

00:46:07.500 --> 00:46:08.930
I had learned about
Trayvon one day

00:46:08.930 --> 00:46:11.900
while I was at
the Strategy Center in 2012

00:46:11.900 --> 00:46:13.510
and going through Facebook.

00:46:13.510 --> 00:46:16.360
I came across a small article
from a local paper.

00:46:16.360 --> 00:46:17.940
Was it Sanford’s?

00:46:17.940 --> 00:46:19.310
I read that a white man—that’s

00:46:19.310 --> 00:46:21.390
how the killer was identified
and self-identified

00:46:21.390 --> 00:46:24.460
until we raised the issue
of race—had killed a Black boy

00:46:24.460 --> 00:46:25.890
and was not going to be charged.

00:46:26.450 --> 00:46:29.530
"I start cursing.
I am outraged. In what ...

00:46:29.530 --> 00:46:30.900
world does this make sense?

00:46:31.430 --> 00:46:32.670
I put a call out:

00:46:32.670 --> 00:46:35.530
have people heard about
17-year-old Trayvon Martin?

00:46:35.530 --> 00:46:38.800
I have loved so many young men
who look just like this boy.

00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:40.130
I feel immediate grief,

00:46:40.130 --> 00:46:41.810
and as my friends
begin to respond,

00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:44.860
they, too, are grief stricken.

00:46:44.860 --> 00:46:47.120
We meet at my home.
We circle up.

00:46:47.120 --> 00:46:49.770
A multiracial group
of roughly 15 people

00:46:49.770 --> 00:46:51.970
dedicated to ending
white supremacy

00:46:51.970 --> 00:46:55.510
and creating a world in which
all of our children can thrive.

00:46:55.510 --> 00:46:56.630
We process.

00:46:56.630 --> 00:46:59.700
We talk about what we’ve seen
and experienced in our lives.

00:46:59.700 --> 00:47:01.540
We cry."

00:47:01.540 --> 00:47:03.110
AMY GOODMAN: That’s
Patrisse Khan-Cullors,

00:47:03.110 --> 00:47:05.900
reading from her book,
released today,

00:47:05.900 --> 00:47:08.610
When They Call You a Terrorist:
A Black Lives Matter Memoir.

00:47:10.230 --> 00:47:11.520
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: I’m wondering,
Patrisse:

00:47:11.520 --> 00:47:14.760
Were you surprised by
the enormous reaction,

00:47:15.730 --> 00:47:21.110
as you began to develop
the Black Lives Matter theme?

00:47:21.890 --> 00:47:23.590
And also, talk about
the Strategy—you mention

00:47:23.590 --> 00:47:25.180
you had come out of
the Strategy Center.

00:47:25.180 --> 00:47:26.770
What was the Strategy Center?

00:47:26.770 --> 00:47:28.930
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Well,
I’m a trained organizer.

00:47:28.930 --> 00:47:30.920
And so, I think
sometimes people think

00:47:30.920 --> 00:47:33.150
that because Black Lives Matter
is the biggest thing,

00:47:33.900 --> 00:47:35.330
that that’s the first
thing I ever did.

00:47:35.330 --> 00:47:40.140
And it’s not. I was trained
knocking on doors,

00:47:40.140 --> 00:47:43.300
you know, getting on buses
and passing out flyers

00:47:43.300 --> 00:47:45.540
and getting people
to join organizations.

00:47:45.540 --> 00:47:46.970
The Labor Community
Strategy Center

00:47:46.970 --> 00:47:48.740
is my first political home.

00:47:48.740 --> 00:47:52.640
It’s where I would be a part
of what it’s famous for,

00:47:52.640 --> 00:47:54.840
which is the Bus Riders Union.

00:47:54.840 --> 00:47:56.780
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Started by an old
friend of mine, Eric Mann.

00:47:56.780 --> 00:47:58.210
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yes,
Eric Mann. That’s my mentor.

00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:00.360
AMY GOODMAN: And that hashtag,

00:48:00.360 --> 00:48:02.840
#BlackLivesMatter, explain
how it came to you,

00:48:02.840 --> 00:48:04.710
your relationship
with Alicia Garza

00:48:04.710 --> 00:48:06.350
and how the three of you—I mean,

00:48:06.350 --> 00:48:10.120
I remember when we had you
on our show, the three of you,

00:48:10.120 --> 00:48:14.040
these towers of
strength—Patrisse Khan-Cullors,

00:48:14.040 --> 00:48:16.470
Alicia Garza, Opal Tometi—

00:48:16.470 --> 00:48:17.040
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yes.

00:48:17.040 --> 00:48:18.510
AMY GOODMAN: —right when
you were just going into

00:48:18.510 --> 00:48:19.940
a major conference
that weekend.

00:48:19.940 --> 00:48:20.030
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yes.

00:48:20.030 --> 00:48:21.530
AMY GOODMAN: But this was
before.

00:48:21.530 --> 00:48:21.800
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yes.

00:48:21.800 --> 00:48:22.890
AMY GOODMAN: How did it
come to you?

00:48:22.890 --> 00:48:25.610
Why were you talking to Alicia?
Did you know her before?

00:48:25.610 --> 00:48:27.070
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: I did.
I had known Alicia

00:48:27.070 --> 00:48:28.310
for at least six years

00:48:28.310 --> 00:48:30.910
by the time we started
Black Lives Matter.

00:48:30.910 --> 00:48:33.950
And George Zimmerman
had just been acquitted

00:48:33.950 --> 00:48:35.560
of Trayvon Martin’s murder,

00:48:35.560 --> 00:48:39.140
and I was furious,
and I was grief-stricken.

00:48:39.140 --> 00:48:40.830
And I went onto social media,

00:48:40.830 --> 00:48:42.460
as many of folks
in our generation do,

00:48:42.460 --> 00:48:45.400
to go commiserate with the
people that I love and know.

00:48:45.930 --> 00:48:48.710
And I found Alicia Garza’s post,

00:48:48.710 --> 00:48:50.680
and she wrote a love note
to black folks.

00:48:50.680 --> 00:48:52.980
And she closed that post off
with "Black Lives Matter."

00:48:53.590 --> 00:48:55.490
And I put a hashtag on it.

00:48:55.490 --> 00:48:58.690
And I said, "We’ve got
to make this go viral,

00:48:58.690 --> 00:49:00.410
that those are the three words."

00:49:00.410 --> 00:49:03.850
And literally,
within the next 24 hours,

00:49:03.850 --> 00:49:05.670
her and I would be
talking about a project

00:49:05.670 --> 00:49:06.620
that we wanted to create,

00:49:06.620 --> 00:49:08.240
and we were going to call it
Black Lives Matter.

00:49:09.320 --> 00:49:12.060
Opal Tometi called Alicia
a few days later,

00:49:12.060 --> 00:49:13.360
saying, "I want in.

00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:15.430
I want to be a part of this.
I want to help develop it.

00:49:15.430 --> 00:49:17.870
I want to build up the
communications infrastructure

00:49:17.870 --> 00:49:19.110
so that it can go viral."

00:49:19.790 --> 00:49:22.100
And that’s the very beginning
of Black Lives Matter.

00:49:22.100 --> 00:49:25.960
And it would become
a phrase, into a hashtag,

00:49:25.960 --> 00:49:28.370
evolve into a political
platform and evolve

00:49:28.370 --> 00:49:30.150
into what’s now
a global network

00:49:30.150 --> 00:49:32.910
and an organization with over
40 chapters worldwide.

00:49:33.690 --> 00:49:36.580
AMY GOODMAN: And before this,
coming out, coming out,

00:49:36.580 --> 00:49:38.240
because so much
of the power

00:49:38.240 --> 00:49:40.770
is this—it’s the personal
story you tell.

00:49:40.770 --> 00:49:41.250
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yeah.

00:49:41.250 --> 00:49:42.010
AMY GOODMAN: And then,
of course,

00:49:42.010 --> 00:49:44.430
there are the global
political implications.

00:49:44.430 --> 00:49:48.200
But it starts with a kid.
It starts with Patrisse.

00:49:48.200 --> 00:49:51.830
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yeah,
Patrisse, the—I was very weird

00:49:51.830 --> 00:49:55.250
and a self-proclaimed weirdo,

00:49:57.610 --> 00:49:59.230
just super excited about life.

00:49:59.230 --> 00:50:00.540
You know, I’m an artist,

00:50:00.540 --> 00:50:03.210
and so I had been
to a lot of art schools

00:50:03.210 --> 00:50:05.470
and performance schools.

00:50:05.470 --> 00:50:10.620
And at 14 years old, my cousin
actually came out first.

00:50:11.150 --> 00:50:14.370
And she was the brave one.
She was the trailblazer.

00:50:14.370 --> 00:50:19.230
And she got—she got a lot
of backlash from her mother,

00:50:19.230 --> 00:50:20.670
in particular,

00:50:20.670 --> 00:50:23.620
so much so that they got
in a physical fight

00:50:23.620 --> 00:50:25.590
on our high
school campus, and she—

00:50:25.590 --> 00:50:27.720
AMY GOODMAN: Your mother—her
mother came to school

00:50:27.720 --> 00:50:28.650
and beat her up.

00:50:28.650 --> 00:50:30.020
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: Yes,
her mother came to school

00:50:30.020 --> 00:50:31.260
and physically fought her

00:50:31.830 --> 00:50:33.770
and then pulled her
out of the school,

00:50:33.770 --> 00:50:38.600
that was so nurturing to her and
where really all our family was,

00:50:38.600 --> 00:50:41.170
and put her in a totally
different program.

00:50:41.170 --> 00:50:43.920
But it was that—it was
my cousin’s courage

00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:47.410
that really shaped me
being clear

00:50:47.410 --> 00:50:48.870
about why I needed to come out.

00:50:48.870 --> 00:50:50.430
And I would come out
the very next year.

00:50:50.980 --> 00:50:52.880
And—

00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:55.270
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And your
family’s reaction?

00:50:56.710 --> 00:50:58.270
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: It was
very hard for my mother.

00:51:00.820 --> 00:51:04.070
We never talked about it, but—

00:51:04.070 --> 00:51:05.590
AMY GOODMAN: She was
a Jehovah’s Witness?

00:51:05.590 --> 00:51:06.980
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: She is
a Jehovah’s Witness.

00:51:06.980 --> 00:51:09.470
My whole family on my mother’s
side is Jehovah’s Witness.

00:51:10.160 --> 00:51:12.130
But I knew that
it was a "sin."

00:51:12.130 --> 00:51:17.170
And we—by that last year
of high school,

00:51:17.170 --> 00:51:20.150
my senior year of high school,
many of us had come out.

00:51:21.190 --> 00:51:25.740
And we were houseless.
We roamed people’s homes.

00:51:25.740 --> 00:51:29.340
We went to the families
who were accepting of us.

00:51:29.340 --> 00:51:31.430
We stayed in cars.

00:51:31.430 --> 00:51:32.490
AMY GOODMAN: You lived
with a teacher

00:51:32.490 --> 00:51:34.330
who saved—helped
to save your life?

00:51:34.330 --> 00:51:35.130
There are so many.

00:51:35.130 --> 00:51:37.240
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: 
Donna Hill. Yes, Donna Hill.

00:51:37.240 --> 00:51:39.040
The day I graduated,
I moved in with her.

00:51:39.910 --> 00:51:42.320
And I propositioned her,
you know, early on.

00:51:42.320 --> 00:51:43.280
I said, "I’d like
to live with you."

00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:44.830
She said, "I can’t legally
have you live with me.

00:51:44.830 --> 00:51:45.900
You’re a student."

00:51:45.900 --> 00:51:47.740
But she said,
"The moment you graduate,

00:51:47.740 --> 00:51:49.210
you’re welcome
to come live with me."

00:51:49.210 --> 00:51:52.070
And myself and my close
friend, Carla Gonzalez,

00:51:52.070 --> 00:51:53.820
who’s still one
of my best friends,

00:51:53.820 --> 00:51:56.250
moved in with her and lived
with her for a couple years,

00:51:56.250 --> 00:51:57.950
while we got ourselves
on our feet.

00:51:58.520 --> 00:51:59.920
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, asha,
I’d like to ask

00:51:59.920 --> 00:52:02.380
you—you’ve been active

00:52:02.380 --> 00:52:03.600
in the movement

00:52:03.600 --> 00:52:07.210
against American drug policy.

00:52:07.210 --> 00:52:10.240
Can you talk about
that involvement

00:52:10.240 --> 00:52:12.920
and how that shaped
your decision to get involved

00:52:12.920 --> 00:52:14.840
in writing this book?

00:52:14.840 --> 00:52:18.100
ASHA BANDELE: Well, first,
in terms of doing the book,

00:52:19.350 --> 00:52:22.490
it was to support Patrisse
in telling her story.

00:52:22.490 --> 00:52:24.900
And I think that as a journalist

00:52:24.900 --> 00:52:26.940
and being trained
to sort of deeply listen,

00:52:27.460 --> 00:52:30.240
it was clear that what
Patrisse was actually telling

00:52:30.240 --> 00:52:32.660
was a story of someone
who grew up

00:52:32.660 --> 00:52:34.300
at the epicenter
of the drug war

00:52:34.300 --> 00:52:36.030
in Southern California.

00:52:36.030 --> 00:52:38.720
And I thought that
was particularly important

00:52:38.720 --> 00:52:40.300
to unpack,

00:52:40.300 --> 00:52:43.670
because even many of us
who oppose mass incarceration

00:52:43.670 --> 00:52:46.840
don’t feel comfortable
challenging drug policies.

00:52:46.840 --> 00:52:51.980
Drugs, you know, we understand
them—U.S. drug policy

00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:55.600
has been—we’ve used it
against ourselves.

00:52:55.600 --> 00:52:59.710
We’ve been embarrassed, ashamed.
Black people haven’t stood up.

00:52:59.710 --> 00:53:01.200
You know, we can say Killer Mike

00:53:01.200 --> 00:53:03.430
and embrace Killer Mike
as a great rapper,

00:53:03.430 --> 00:53:06.060
but we would never do that
with Crackhead Mike, right?

00:53:06.060 --> 00:53:09.340
And so, we’ve participated
in a stigma

00:53:09.950 --> 00:53:13.240
that was directly
created at a moment

00:53:13.240 --> 00:53:15.730
when black people were at
the top of the moral mountain,

00:53:15.730 --> 00:53:17.440
the civil rights movement,

00:53:17.440 --> 00:53:19.610
but you could
no longer use race

00:53:19.610 --> 00:53:23.040
as a reason to exclude
people from society.

00:53:23.040 --> 00:53:27.310
Nixon’s administration uses
drugs as a proxy for race

00:53:27.310 --> 00:53:28.930
and goes after them.
We know that now.

00:53:28.930 --> 00:53:31.200
We know what
John Ehrlichman has said.

00:53:31.200 --> 00:53:32.840
Did they know they were lying?

00:53:32.840 --> 00:53:35.140
He says of course
they knew they were lying

00:53:35.140 --> 00:53:37.520
about black people
and drug involvement.

00:53:37.520 --> 00:53:39.330
But they’ve so demonized it

00:53:39.330 --> 00:53:41.220
that we don’t even want
to talk about it.

00:53:41.220 --> 00:53:45.050
And whole communities,
meanwhile, are targeted

00:53:45.050 --> 00:53:47.310
under the guise of
keeping children safe,

00:53:47.310 --> 00:53:49.970
when they’re actually
making children less safe.

00:53:49.970 --> 00:53:53.100
It’s been the reason for—in
any case you look at,

00:53:53.100 --> 00:53:55.190
in Trayvon Martin’s case—right?—

00:53:55.190 --> 00:53:56.440
the first thing
the lawyer said was,

00:53:56.440 --> 00:53:58.540
"Oh, he had marijuana
in his system,"

00:53:58.540 --> 00:54:00.580
as though that was
some justification.

00:54:00.580 --> 00:54:02.980
They said the same thing
about Sandra Bland.

00:54:02.980 --> 00:54:05.100
Eric Garner is selling
loose cigarettes,

00:54:05.100 --> 00:54:08.100
they claim—and the family
disputes that, by the way,

00:54:08.100 --> 00:54:10.060
but they claim he’s
selling loose cigarettes.

00:54:10.060 --> 00:54:12.020
So, all of these drug products

00:54:12.020 --> 00:54:14.030
are used as

00:54:14.030 --> 00:54:16.620
a justification to kill people,

00:54:16.620 --> 00:54:18.560
to roll tanks into Ferguson.

00:54:18.560 --> 00:54:20.810
That comes from
drug war dollars.

00:54:20.810 --> 00:54:26.770
And when they don’t—what
they talk about

00:54:26.770 --> 00:54:28.310
are people dying of drug use,

00:54:28.310 --> 00:54:31.510
but what’s actually more
harmful is the drug war.

00:54:34.290 --> 00:54:36.730
AMY GOODMAN: It is clear
in this book

00:54:37.910 --> 00:54:40.280
that nothing in Patrisse’s life

00:54:40.280 --> 00:54:42.560
would indicate who
she would become.

00:54:43.660 --> 00:54:45.350
I’m saying "she,"
but she is right here,

00:54:45.350 --> 00:54:46.640
but I’m talking to you, asha.

00:54:47.620 --> 00:54:50.900
Your life now—I mean, you wrote,
in a remarkable book,

00:54:50.900 --> 00:54:53.060
The Prisoner’s Wife,
about your husband,

00:54:53.060 --> 00:54:54.530
who was imprisoned,

00:54:54.530 --> 00:54:58.150
then deported
to Guyana in 2009—

00:54:58.150 --> 00:54:58.810
ASHA BANDELE: Yes.

00:54:58.810 --> 00:55:00.430
AMY GOODMAN: —instead of
coming out and being able

00:55:00.430 --> 00:55:02.370
to live in this country.

00:55:02.370 --> 00:55:04.290
And then you meet Patrisse,

00:55:04.290 --> 00:55:07.270
whose life story so intertwined
with the drug war,

00:55:07.270 --> 00:55:09.710
yet if people were to look
at Patrisse’s story,

00:55:09.710 --> 00:55:13.450
they wouldn’t necessarily
know that, how it’s U.S. policy

00:55:13.450 --> 00:55:16.130
that is shaping
this young woman’s life.

00:55:16.130 --> 00:55:18.590
ASHA BANDELE: Right. And I think
that’s true for many of us.

00:55:18.590 --> 00:55:22.040
We see the immediate action
in front of us, right?

00:55:22.040 --> 00:55:25.710
The immediate police officer
who has a gun in your face.

00:55:25.710 --> 00:55:27.090
But we don’t think about:

00:55:27.090 --> 00:55:30.050
How is that police officer
empowered to do this?

00:55:30.050 --> 00:55:31.660
And how can we disempower them?

00:55:31.660 --> 00:55:34.980
We don’t think about the fact
that moneys are set aside

00:55:34.980 --> 00:55:36.400
in every police department
for us

00:55:36.400 --> 00:55:38.590
to be able to sue them
when they do harm us.

00:55:38.590 --> 00:55:40.870
I wonder, if all the money
police departments

00:55:40.870 --> 00:55:44.220
pay out to people who are harmed
by law enforcement

00:55:44.220 --> 00:55:45.820
came out of their pension funds,

00:55:45.820 --> 00:55:48.100
how much we might
reduce police violence.

00:55:48.610 --> 00:55:50.340
We don’t think about
what it means

00:55:50.340 --> 00:55:53.130
to have civil asset forfeiture,

00:55:53.130 --> 00:55:55.910
that takes away primarily
poor people’s homes

00:55:55.910 --> 00:55:58.640
and minimal assets
—right?—that disrupts

00:55:58.640 --> 00:56:00.930
incomes and makes
people homeless.

00:56:00.930 --> 00:56:04.460
And then they take
that money and buy tanks

00:56:04.460 --> 00:56:07.160
and buy other kinds
of militarized equipment

00:56:07.160 --> 00:56:08.280
that harm our communities.

00:56:08.280 --> 00:56:11.460
So, there’s a direct line,
and I want people to see that

00:56:11.460 --> 00:56:14.780
and no longer feel the shame

00:56:14.780 --> 00:56:17.590
and stigma of either drug use,

00:56:17.590 --> 00:56:21.520
drug involvement or oppression,

00:56:21.520 --> 00:56:24.420
because oppression
is embarrassing. It shames us.

00:56:24.420 --> 00:56:29.060
It humiliates us to say,
"This happened to me,"

00:56:29.060 --> 00:56:31.850
rather than, "I was the arbiter
of my own destiny."

00:56:31.850 --> 00:56:33.220
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: It’s interesting
you mention

00:56:33.760 --> 00:56:36.010
especially the racial character
of the war on drugs,

00:56:36.010 --> 00:56:39.180
because we’re now through
a new drug epidemic in America,

00:56:39.180 --> 00:56:40.420
the opioid epidemic.
ASHA BANDELE: Right.

00:56:40.420 --> 00:56:42.530
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: But no one’s
calling for a crackdown—

00:56:42.530 --> 00:56:42.870
ASHA BANDELE: Exactly.

00:56:42.870 --> 00:56:44.990
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: —on the rural
communities and locking them up

00:56:45.490 --> 00:56:46.760
and throwing the key away,

00:56:46.760 --> 00:56:49.010
for the victims
of the opioid epidemic,

00:56:49.010 --> 00:56:50.970
like they did over
the crack epidemic

00:56:50.970 --> 00:56:53.840
or they did over the heroin
epidemic in the '60s and ’70s.

00:56:53.840 --> 00:56:57.280
It's a whole different approach
now to helping people.

00:56:57.280 --> 00:56:59.720
AMY GOODMAN: Of understanding
and mental health help.

00:56:59.720 --> 00:57:01.730
ASHA BANDELE: You know, it is,
and it isn’t, right?

00:57:01.730 --> 00:57:03.570
So, we have this
very public face,

00:57:03.570 --> 00:57:05.930
with Chris Christie
on East Coast

00:57:05.930 --> 00:57:07.370
saying a lot of things about it.

00:57:07.370 --> 00:57:11.950
But in truth, if we look
at the cocaine use in the '80s

00:57:11.950 --> 00:57:13.090
and ’90s,

00:57:13.090 --> 00:57:16.550
first of all, white people
used and sold more crack

00:57:16.550 --> 00:57:17.420
and used more powder

00:57:17.420 --> 00:57:19.920
cocaine—they're pharmaceutically
the same drug, right?

00:57:19.920 --> 00:57:22.300
So, they used it
more than we did.

00:57:22.300 --> 00:57:25.610
And the response to them was
employee assistance programs.

00:57:25.610 --> 00:57:26.870
It was "We’re going to
take care of you."

00:57:26.870 --> 00:57:29.380
It was Betty Ford Center.
It was any number of things

00:57:29.380 --> 00:57:32.060
to ensure their communities
didn’t fall apart.

00:57:32.060 --> 00:57:34.710
And the response
to our communities

00:57:34.710 --> 00:57:37.310
was incarceration
and demonization.

00:57:37.310 --> 00:57:39.680
In very many ways, that’s
the same thing that’s happening.

00:57:39.680 --> 00:57:40.720
It’s just more public.

00:57:40.720 --> 00:57:43.100
So, white people, embraced,
and black people,

00:57:43.100 --> 00:57:44.980
80 to 90 percent of those now

00:57:44.980 --> 00:57:47.710
going to prison for
heroin involvement.

00:57:47.710 --> 00:57:49.170
AMY GOODMAN: We just have
30 seconds.

00:57:49.170 --> 00:57:52.390
Patrisse Khan-Cullors,
this is the story of your life.

00:57:52.390 --> 00:57:57.540
You coined the term,
with two of your sisters,

00:57:57.540 --> 00:57:58.980
"Black Lives Matter."

00:57:58.980 --> 00:58:01.120
Black Lives Matter
under Trump, your comment?

00:58:02.400 --> 00:58:04.250
PATRISSE KHAN-CULLORS: I think
we are living

00:58:05.050 --> 00:58:08.880
under a really
grave administration

00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:12.530
that is really challenging
our moral compass in America.

00:58:12.530 --> 00:58:15.100
I think Black Lives Matter
is in a moment

00:58:15.100 --> 00:58:16.940
where we get to
stand up to Trump,

00:58:16.940 --> 00:58:19.730
but also the white nationalists
that he’s powered.

00:58:19.730 --> 00:58:22.460
And it’s in this moment
that Black Lives Matter

00:58:22.460 --> 00:58:24.790
gets to forge a new path
for this country,

00:58:24.790 --> 00:58:26.880
where we can honestly see

00:58:26.880 --> 00:58:29.300
and live in
a democratic America.

00:58:30.070 --> 00:58:31.970
AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you
both for being with us

00:58:31.970 --> 00:58:35.930
and recommend, everyone, your
next book should be this one.

00:58:36.480 --> 00:58:37.950
Patrisse Khan-Cullors,

00:58:37.950 --> 00:58:39.990
co-founder
of Black Lives Matter,

00:58:39.990 --> 00:58:43.160
and asha bandele, award-winning
journalist and author,

00:58:43.160 --> 00:58:45.560
have written
a new book—it’s out today—When

00:58:45.560 --> 00:58:49.100
They Call You a Terrorist:
A Black Lives Matter Memoir.