WEBVTT

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From Pacifica,
this is Democracy Now!

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We call on all students,
faculty,

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staff and workers

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of the university

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to support our strike.

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The black students
of Columbia University,

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joined by a few members
of the black community,

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have been in Hamilton Hall
for 56 hours—more than that now.

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We have established a cafeteria
with adequate stores,

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all continuously.

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A physician is in charge
of our infirmary.

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Morale is high.

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Fifty years ago today,

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hundreds of students
at Columbia University

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here in New York
started a revolt on campus.

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They occupied five buildings,

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including the president’s
office in Low Library.

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The students
barricaded themselves

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inside the buildings for a week.

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They were protesting Columbia’s
ties to military research

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and plans to build a university

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gymnasium in
a public park in Harlem.

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The protest began
less than three weeks

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after the assassination
of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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The 1968 Columbia uprising

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led to one of
the largest mass arrests

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in New York
City history,

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more than 700 people
detained on April 30th,

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touching off
a university-wide strike.

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Today we spend the hour looking
back at this pivotal moment

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with four of
the student organizers

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involved in the strike.

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I like to think that
the legacy of Columbia

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is one of an active engagement

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in significant issues
of the day,

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taking that engagement, through
a struggle, to a conclusion,

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and having the experience
be a launchpad

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for lives in social justice.

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Today, we’ll speak
with Raymond Brown,

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a leader of the Student Afro
-American Society at Columbia,

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one of the leaders
of the black students

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who occupied Columbia
University’s Hamilton Hall;

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Nancy Biberman, student
at Barnard College

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at the time of the '68 strike
and a member of SDS,

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Students for
a Democratic Society.

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We'll also speak
with Mark Rudd,

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chair of SDS
during the student strike,

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and Paul Cronin, editor of
the new book A Time to Stir:

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Columbia ’68.

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And our very own Juan González,

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who was there, leader of
the strike, as well.

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All that and more, coming up.

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Welcome to Democracy Now!,
democracynow.org,

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The War and Peace Report.
I’m Amy Goodman.

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North Korea’s leader
Kim Jong-un said Friday

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he will stop
testing nuclear weapons

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and ballistic missiles,
and will close a site

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where at least six prior
nuclear tests were held.

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The announcement
came less than a week

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ahead of a planned meeting
with South Korean President Moon

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Jae-in and as the Trump
administration

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makes plans for an unprecedented
face-to-face summit

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between Kim and President Trump.

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In response, Trump tweeted,

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"they have agreed
to denuclearization

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(so great for World), site
closure, & no more testing!"

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In fact, North Korea has said

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that it will suspend tests
of its nuclear program.

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Trump has previously threatened
to use nuclear weapons

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against North Korea,

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saying he would
"totally destroy"

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the nation of 25 million people.

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French President Emmanuel Macron

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kicks off
a three-day state visit today

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with a sightseeing trip

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to George Washington’s Mt.
Vernon estate in Virginia,

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where he’ll be joined
by President Trump

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and first lady
Melania Trump.

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Macron is reportedly
planning to press Trump

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to keep U.S.
troops in Syria,

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and will pressure him
not to pull out

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of the Iran nuclear deal,

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as he’s repeatedly
threatened to do.

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In Tennessee, police have
launched a manhunt

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for a killer who opened fire
on a Waffle House restaurant

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in suburban Nashville
early Sunday morning,

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killing four people
and wounding four others

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before being disarmed
by a patron

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and escaping on foot.

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Police have
identified the killer

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as a 29-year-old
white man from Morton, Illinois,

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named Travis Reinking.

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All of his victims
were young people of color.

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Reinking reportedly arrived
at the Waffle House naked,

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except for a jacket,

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armed with an AR-15
semiautomatic assault rifle.

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He fled the scene
after 29-year-old James Shaw Jr.

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wrestled Reinking’s assault
rifle away from him.

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Shaw, who was injured
in the struggle,

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has been widely hailed as a hero

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who prevented the
further loss of life.

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Reinking was arrested
in July 2017

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by the Secret Service

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for trespassing on
the White House grounds.

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He would go on
to tell investigators

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he wanted to set up a meeting
with President Trump.

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It was one of several
incidents in which

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Reinking was reported to have
displayed delusional thinking.

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After the White House incident,

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the FBI seized
four of Reinking’s

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guns—but the weapons were later
returned to Reinking’s father,

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who has acknowledged he then
gave the guns back to his son.

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One of those guns was the AR-15
used in Sunday’s massacre.

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This is Nashville
Mayor David Briley,

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speaking to reporters on Sunday.

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Mayor David Briley:
"We need comprehensive gun

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reform to address
mass shootings,

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domestic shootings, accidental
shootings and homicides.

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If we can all just
come together for this

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and for the greater good,

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we can take these weapons of war
off the streets of our country."

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The mass shooting came two days

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after thousands of students
at schools across the U.S.

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walked out of classes

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for another coordinated
day of action

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against gun violence.

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In Afghanistan, a suicide bomber

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struck a voter
registration center

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in the capital
Kabul Sunday,

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killing at least 57 people
and injuring 119 others.

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The attack came just days
after authorities

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began opening voter
ID distribution centers

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ahead of October elections.

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ISIS later claimed
responsibility for the bombing,

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which appeared
to target members

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of the Shia Hazara
minority community.

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Later Sunday, six people were
killed in Baghlan province

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when their vehicle
hit a roadside bomb.

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In the Gaza Strip, Israeli
military snipers shot

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and killed four
Palestinians Friday

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as they protested near
the heavily militarized border

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cordoning off the
Palestinian territory

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from the outside world.

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Among the dead was
15-year-old Mohammad Ayoub,

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who was shot in the head.

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This is the boy’s
mother, Raeda Ayoub.

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Raeda Ayoub:
"Mohammad was standing unarmed.

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The Israeli forces were armed
and were taking cover.

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They bring in reinforcements
to kill the boys in Gaza

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so they don’t get to grow up
and get their rights."

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Israeli forces have killed
36 Palestinians since protests

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against the Israeli occupation

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began on March 30.

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Meanwhile, the number
of Palestinians

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injured by Israeli bullets

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has topped 1,700.

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The aid group Médecins
Sans Frontières—or Doctors

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Without Borders—warns most of
those shot will be left with

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"serious, long-term
physical disabilities."

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In Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia,

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a Palestinian man was shot
and killed Saturday

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by two assailants
who fired 14 rounds

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before speeding away
on a motorcycle.

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The victim,
35-year-old Fadi al-Batsh,

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was a senior lecturer at
the University of Kuala Lumpur

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who specialized in engineering

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and who’d been living in
Malaysia for the past decade.

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Malaysia’s deputy prime minister

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said the killers had
"European features,"

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and said they were linked to
a foreign intelligence agency.

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In the Gaza Strip,
members of Batsh’s family

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blamed the Israeli
spy agency Mossad

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for carrying out the killing.

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In Syria, government forces have
stepped up a massive campaign

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of airstrikes and artillery fire

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on the last
opposition-held districts

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around the capital Damascus.

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Among areas taking heavy fire
is the Yarmouk Camp,

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home to Palestinian refugees,

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which has been held
by ISIS since 2015.

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Chris Gunness, spokesperson
for UNRWA—the U.N.

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Relief and Works Agency
for Palestine Refugees—warned

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of a humanitarian
catastrophe inside the camp.

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Chris Gunness:

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"Yarmouk was a refugee camp
transformed into a death camp

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akin to one of the
lower rungs of hell.

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Things were absolutely
beyond inhumane

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for the people
trapped there.

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And for the civilians
in Yarmouk today,

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we are extremely concerned,

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because things are getting
worse by the hour."

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On Saturday, a U.N. team
of chemical weapons inspectors

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collected samples
from Douma two weeks

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after an alleged gas attack.

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The incident was cited
by President Trump—along

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with the French and British
governments—as justification

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for a round of U.S.-led
airstrikes on April 14.

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In Nicaragua,
President Daniel Ortega

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has canceled unpopular
plans to raise taxes

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while cutting pension benefits,

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after the death toll
from resulting protests rose

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to at least 26 over the weekend.

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Human rights groups
have accused police of using

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live rounds on demonstrators.

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Among those killed
was reporter Ángel Gahona,

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who was shot dead
as he broadcast coverage

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of the protests
on Facebook Live.

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The protests erupted
last Wednesday

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as the government moved
to decrease people’s pensions

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even as it requires
workers and employers

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to contribute more money
to the social security system.

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In Peru, mourners paid
their last respects

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Saturday to 81-year-old
Olivia Arévalo Lomas,

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an indigenous rainforest
protector who was found murdered

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in her ancestral home
in the Amazon.

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Arévalo Lomas was
a traditional healer,

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a leader in her community and
an indigenous rights activist.

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On Thursday, she was shot twice
by an unknown gunman

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who fled on a motorcycle.

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On Friday, an angry mob

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surrounded 41-year-old
Sebastian Woodroffe,

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a Canadian man they blamed
for Arévalo Lomas’s death,

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before dragging him
away and lynching him.

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Police say they’re looking
into whether Woodroffe

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had anything to do

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with Arévalo Lomas’s killing,

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and are investigating
both murders.

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In Armenia, thousands
of protesters

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defied a police crackdown
and rallied

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in the capital
Yerevan Sunday,

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demanding the release
of opposition leaders

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and calling on longtime leader
Serzh Sargsyan to step down.

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Protesters are accusing
Sargsyan of clinging to power,

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after he served two terms
as the country’s president,

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then led a campaign to make
the role of the presidency

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ceremonial while elevating
the position of prime minister

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and assuming that role.

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At least 200 people
have been arrested

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as police have
sought unsuccessfully

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to stop the ongoing protests.

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Back in the United States,
Arizona public school

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teachers are poised
to strike on Thursday

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unless the state’s
Republican-led Legislature

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meets their demands to
strengthen public education.

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Governor Doug Ducey
has proposed

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raising teacher salaries
20 percent by 2020,

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but unions say that
doesn’t go far enough.

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They’re demanding similar
raises for support staff;

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new technology;
smaller class sizes;

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and a reversal to $1 billion
in education cuts

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since the start
of the Great Recession.

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The strike authorization
comes on the heels

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of similar actions in West
Virginia, Kentucky and Oklahoma,

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and as Colorado teachers
are planning a rally Friday

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at their state Capitol

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to demand pension security
and more K-12 funding.

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In Massachusetts, thousands
of graduate students

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and undergraduate teaching
assistants at Harvard University

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have voted to unionize.

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Harvard’s student
newspaper reported

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that a Harvard representative
repeatedly declined to answer

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whether administrators
will now recognize

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the Harvard Graduate
Students Union,

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a chapter of the United
Automobile Workers, the UAW.

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A climate change denier with
no scientific credentials

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is set to helm NASA,

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after he was narrowly confirmed
by the Senate in a 50-49 vote.

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Oklahoma Republican
Congressmember Jim Bridenstine

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previously demanded
President Obama apologize

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for funding climate
change research,

00:12:18.940 --> 00:12:20.820
and said falsely
from the House floor

00:12:20.820 --> 00:12:24.000
that global temperatures stopped
rising early this century.

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Bridenstine will now
oversee an agency

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whose Earth Sciences
Division is responsible

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for much of the satellite data

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used to investigate
how human activity

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is driving global warming.

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In a major victory
for environmentalists,

00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:41.610
banking giant HSBC said Friday
it will no longer finance

00:12:41.610 --> 00:12:44.220
the development of tar
sands oil extraction,

00:12:44.220 --> 00:12:46.010
most coal fired power plants,

00:12:46.010 --> 00:12:47.960
and oil and gas
drilling in the Arctic.

00:12:47.960 --> 00:12:50.160
HSBC says its new policy,

00:12:50.160 --> 00:12:52.950
which will also end
financing to hydroelectric

00:12:52.950 --> 00:12:54.200
and nuclear power projects

00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:55.720
that don’t meet
certain requirements,

00:12:55.720 --> 00:12:57.940
is targeted at helping
keep greenhouse

00:12:57.940 --> 00:12:59.680
gas emissions below targets set

00:12:59.680 --> 00:13:02.760
in the landmark 2015
Paris climate accord.

00:13:02.760 --> 00:13:04.670
In a statement, the Sierra
Club’s Kelly Martin

00:13:04.670 --> 00:13:06.190
welcomed the policy,
calling it

00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:08.530
"yet another signal
to Donald Trump

00:13:08.530 --> 00:13:11.600
and the rest of the world that,
despite their worst laid plans,

00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:14.380
the era of fossil fuels
is coming to a close."

00:13:15.170 --> 00:13:16.670
The winners of the 2018

00:13:16.670 --> 00:13:18.560
prestigious Goldman
Environmental Prize

00:13:18.560 --> 00:13:21.820
have been announced, with women
claiming five of the six prizes.

00:13:21.820 --> 00:13:24.570
Among this year’s winners
are anti-nuclear activists

00:13:24.570 --> 00:13:27.680
Liz McDaid
and Makoma Lekalakala,

00:13:27.680 --> 00:13:29.480
who led a successful campaign

00:13:29.480 --> 00:13:31.120
against South Africa’s bid
to purchase

00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:33.640
as many as 10 nuclear
power plants from Russia.

00:13:33.640 --> 00:13:35.600
In Latin America,
Francia Márquez

00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:37.150
wins a prize for her campaign

00:13:37.150 --> 00:13:39.330
against illegal mining
in the Amazon,

00:13:39.330 --> 00:13:41.410
which led Colombia’s
government to crack down

00:13:41.410 --> 00:13:43.450
on cyanide
and mercury pollution.

00:13:43.450 --> 00:13:47.840
And in the U.S., LeeAnne Walters
wins a Goldman Prize

00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:50.870
for uncovering the crisis
of toxic lead in Flint,

00:13:50.870 --> 00:13:52.160
Michigan’s water supply,

00:13:52.160 --> 00:13:55.390
after she commissioned
a test of her home’s tap water

00:13:55.390 --> 00:13:59.200
and found it was so contaminated
it qualified as hazardous waste.

00:13:59.750 --> 00:14:02.450
In Georgia, hundreds of
militarized police officers

00:14:02.450 --> 00:14:05.050
patrolled a small rally
of neo-Nazis in the Atlanta

00:14:05.050 --> 00:14:06.820
suburb of Newnan on Saturday,

00:14:06.820 --> 00:14:09.700
arresting members of
an anti-fascist counterprotest

00:14:09.700 --> 00:14:12.700
after they refused an order
to remove their masks.

00:14:12.700 --> 00:14:13.870
Police officer:

00:14:13.870 --> 00:14:17.900
"State law requires you to
remove your masks right now!

00:14:17.900 --> 00:14:20.640
You will do it right now,
or you will be arrested!"

00:14:21.940 --> 00:14:25.120
When some of the Antifa
protesters refused,

00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:28.390
police moved in, brandishing
semiautomatic assault rifles

00:14:28.390 --> 00:14:30.750
and pointing them at the heads
of unarmed demonstrators.

00:14:30.750 --> 00:14:32.220
Ten people were arrested.

00:14:32.220 --> 00:14:34.300
The police were enforcing
laws drafted years ago

00:14:34.300 --> 00:14:36.000
to combat the Ku Klux Klan.

00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:38.420
After the protest, the neo-Nazis
gathered in a field

00:14:38.420 --> 00:14:42.390
and made fascist salutes as they
burned large wooden swastikas.

00:14:42.970 --> 00:14:45.210
In New York, former Black
Panther Herman Bell

00:14:45.210 --> 00:14:46.440
is poised to leave prison

00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:48.800
for the first time
in nearly 45 years,

00:14:48.800 --> 00:14:51.080
after a judge rejected
a lawsuit challenging

00:14:51.080 --> 00:14:53.050
his upcoming release on parole.

00:14:53.050 --> 00:14:55.550
Bell was sentenced
to 25 years to life in prison

00:14:55.550 --> 00:14:59.410
for the killing of two New York
City police officers in 1971.

00:14:59.410 --> 00:15:01.740
At the time, he was a member
of the Black Liberation Army

00:15:01.740 --> 00:15:03.250
and a former Black Panther.

00:15:03.250 --> 00:15:05.680
Since then, he has mentored
thousands of young men

00:15:05.680 --> 00:15:08.790
while behind bars and kept
a clean disciplinary record.

00:15:08.790 --> 00:15:10.680
Click here for more
on the case of Herman Bell.

00:15:14.030 --> 00:15:17.970
And former San Francisco 49ers
quarterback Colin Kaepernick

00:15:17.970 --> 00:15:21.000
has accepted Amnesty
International’s highest prize,

00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:23.120
the Ambassador
of Conscience Award.

00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:27.000
In 2016, Kaepernick sparked
a movement against racism

00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:29.710
and police brutality at sporting
events across the U.S.

00:15:29.710 --> 00:15:33.000
by refusing to stand for the
playing of the national anthem

00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:34.660
ahead of NFL games.

00:15:34.660 --> 00:15:36.950
This is Colin Kaepernick
speaking Saturday night

00:15:36.950 --> 00:15:39.660
at an Amnesty awards
ceremony in Amsterdam.

00:15:39.660 --> 00:15:42.640
Colin Kaepernick:
"It was James Baldwin who said,

00:15:43.410 --> 00:15:47.350
'To be black in America
and to be relatively conscious

00:15:47.860 --> 00:15:50.030
is to be in a rage
almost all the time.'

00:15:51.500 --> 00:15:54.220
My question is:
Why aren’t all people?

00:15:55.850 --> 00:15:58.440
How can you stand for
the national anthem of a nation

00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:00.650
that preaches
and propagates freedom

00:16:00.650 --> 00:16:02.650
and justice for all,

00:16:02.650 --> 00:16:05.360
that is so unjust to so many
of the people living there?

00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:09.040
How can you not be
in a rage when you know

00:16:09.040 --> 00:16:12.100
that you are always at risk
of death in the streets

00:16:12.100 --> 00:16:13.850
or enslavement
in the prison system?

00:16:15.990 --> 00:16:17.700
How can you willingly be blind

00:16:17.700 --> 00:16:20.470
to the truth of systemic
racialized injustice?"

00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:24.130
And those are some of the
headlines this is Democracy Now,

00:16:24.130 --> 00:16:26.910
Democracynow.org,
the War and Peace Report.

00:16:26.910 --> 00:16:28.910
I’m Amy Goodman.

00:16:33.830 --> 00:16:38.170
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Fifty years ago
today, on April 23rd, 1968,

00:16:38.170 --> 00:16:40.150
hundreds of students
at Columbia University

00:16:40.150 --> 00:16:43.500
in New York revolted—started
a revolt on campus.

00:16:43.500 --> 00:16:46.420
Students went on strike.
They occupied five buildings,

00:16:46.420 --> 00:16:48.610
including the president’s
office in Low Library.

00:16:49.800 --> 00:16:53.040
They barricaded themselves
inside the buildings for days.

00:16:53.040 --> 00:16:55.960
They were protesting Columbia’s
ties to military research

00:16:55.960 --> 00:16:58.950
and plans to build
a new gymnasium

00:16:58.950 --> 00:17:00.640
in a public park in Harlem.

00:17:00.640 --> 00:17:02.520
The protests began
less than three weeks

00:17:02.520 --> 00:17:05.950
after the assassination
of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

00:17:05.950 --> 00:17:08.460
The 1968 Columbia uprising

00:17:08.460 --> 00:17:10.100
led to one of
the largest mass arrests

00:17:10.100 --> 00:17:11.660
in New York City history,

00:17:11.660 --> 00:17:15.010
as more than 700 people
were arrested on April 30th.

00:17:15.010 --> 00:17:18.230
It also inspired student
protests across the country.

00:17:18.230 --> 00:17:21.580
Today we spend the hour looking
back at this pivotal moment.

00:17:21.580 --> 00:17:23.090
Several of the
student organizers

00:17:23.090 --> 00:17:24.450
are joining us in a minute.

00:17:24.450 --> 00:17:27.940
As one of them writes today in
an op-ed in The New York Times,

00:17:27.940 --> 00:17:29.370
quote, "In popular memory,

00:17:29.370 --> 00:17:31.540
the Columbia protests
were a high point

00:17:31.540 --> 00:17:32.990
of the campus movement

00:17:32.990 --> 00:17:34.290
against the Vietnam War,

00:17:34.290 --> 00:17:36.530
and a mile marker
in its radicalization.

00:17:37.080 --> 00:17:39.210
But this history,
which privileges the actions

00:17:39.210 --> 00:17:42.670
and concerns of white students
like myself, is incomplete,

00:17:42.670 --> 00:17:44.840
and it misrepresents
what made the protests

00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:47.130
so powerful—the leadership
of the black students."

00:17:47.890 --> 00:17:49.460
Those are the words
of Mark Rudd,

00:17:49.460 --> 00:17:50.800
who will join us in a minute.

00:17:50.800 --> 00:17:52.600
We’ll also speak
with Raymond Brown,

00:17:52.600 --> 00:17:55.320
former leader of the Student
Afro-American Society,

00:17:55.320 --> 00:17:57.080
and with Nancy Biberman,
who, like Rudd,

00:17:57.080 --> 00:17:58.340
was a member of Students

00:17:58.340 --> 00:18:00.590
for a Democratic Society,
or SDS.

00:18:00.590 --> 00:18:02.350
But first we begin with excerpts

00:18:02.350 --> 00:18:04.780
from the documentary
Columbia Revolt

00:18:04.780 --> 00:18:07.250
by Third World Newsreel.

00:18:07.250 --> 00:18:10.250
STUDENT ORGANIZER 1: We now
demand—we no longer ask—a

00:18:10.250 --> 00:18:13.560
say in decisions
that affect our lives.

00:18:15.270 --> 00:18:18.210
We call on all students,
faculty,

00:18:18.980 --> 00:18:20.360
staff

00:18:20.360 --> 00:18:22.220
and workers of the university

00:18:22.780 --> 00:18:24.100
to support our strike.

00:18:24.930 --> 00:18:28.890
We ask that all students
and faculty not meet

00:18:29.950 --> 00:18:33.080
or have classes
inside buildings.

00:18:33.740 --> 00:18:37.030
We have taken the power away
from an irresponsible

00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:39.640
and illegitimate administration.

00:18:40.370 --> 00:18:43.630
We have taken power away
from a board

00:18:43.630 --> 00:18:46.500
of self-perpetuating businessmen

00:18:46.500 --> 00:18:49.840
who call themselves trustees
of this university.

00:18:49.840 --> 00:18:53.930
We’re demanding an end to the
construction of the gymnasium,

00:18:53.930 --> 00:18:57.370
a gymnasium being built
against the will

00:18:57.370 --> 00:18:59.340
of the people of
the community of Harlem,

00:19:00.230 --> 00:19:02.860
a decision that was
made unilaterally

00:19:04.180 --> 00:19:06.070
by powers of the university

00:19:06.750 --> 00:19:11.300
without consultation of people
whose lives it affects.

00:19:12.030 --> 00:19:13.450
We are no longer asking,

00:19:14.040 --> 00:19:17.110
but demanding, an end
to all affiliation

00:19:17.110 --> 00:19:20.530
and ties with the Institute
for Defense Analysis,

00:19:21.280 --> 00:19:26.650
a Department Department
venture that collaborates

00:19:26.650 --> 00:19:30.700
the university into studies
of kill and overkill

00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:32.880
that has resulted
in the slaughter

00:19:33.710 --> 00:19:37.870
and maiming of thousands
of Vietnamese and Americans.

00:19:38.780 --> 00:19:39.900
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Students
at Columbia

00:19:39.900 --> 00:19:41.310
moved to take over buildings

00:19:41.310 --> 00:19:44.940
despite warnings
from some campus officials.

00:19:46.510 --> 00:19:48.420
STUDENT ORGANIZER 2: In order to
show the solidarity of people

00:19:48.420 --> 00:19:51.170
with six strike leaders
who they had tried to suspend,

00:19:51.170 --> 00:19:52.840
they decided to take
Hamilton once again.

00:19:55.750 --> 00:19:57.330
CAMPUS OFFICIAL: You
are hereby directed

00:19:57.330 --> 00:20:06.400
to clear out of this building.

00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:08.730
I’ll give you
further instructions

00:20:08.730 --> 00:20:15.020
if this building is not cleared
out within the next 10 minutes.

00:20:15.020 --> 00:20:18.370
STRIKE LEADER: I’m asking
how many of you here

00:20:18.370 --> 00:20:22.220
are willing now to stay with me,
sit-in here, until…

00:20:23.240 --> 00:20:23.990
STUDENT ORGANIZER 3: After
three votes,

00:20:23.990 --> 00:20:25.230
a majority decided to stay.

00:20:25.770 --> 00:20:35.250
STUDENTS: Strike! Strike!
Strike! Strike! Strike! Strike!

00:20:35.800 --> 00:20:38.050
CAMPUS OFFICIAL: If you do not
choose to leave this building,

00:20:38.050 --> 00:20:41.350
I have to inform you
that we have no alternative

00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:43.350
but to call the police,

00:20:43.350 --> 00:20:47.290
and each student who is arrested
will be immediately suspended.

00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:50.580
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: The students
then set up barricades

00:20:50.580 --> 00:20:52.350
inside the administration
building.

00:20:53.450 --> 00:20:54.410
STUDENT ORGANIZER 4: The first
day in Math,

00:20:54.410 --> 00:20:55.570
we set up a defense committee,

00:20:55.570 --> 00:20:57.760
which took care of
putting up the barricades.

00:20:58.280 --> 00:21:01.400
We decided what our policy
would be toward police,

00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:02.650
toward jocks.

00:21:02.650 --> 00:21:05.460
We soaped some of the stairs.
We taped the windows.

00:21:05.460 --> 00:21:09.340
We emptied bookcases and put
them up in front of the windows

00:21:09.340 --> 00:21:11.770
in case tear gas canisters
did get through the tape.

00:21:12.280 --> 00:21:13.390
STUDENT ORGANIZER 5: And it hung
up a lot of people

00:21:13.390 --> 00:21:14.840
when there would be
a little scratch or mar

00:21:14.840 --> 00:21:17.140
on one of the marble-top
desks or something.

00:21:17.140 --> 00:21:18.800
And the second time
we built barricades,

00:21:18.800 --> 00:21:20.600
these hang-ups disappeared,

00:21:20.600 --> 00:21:22.890
and we had decided
that barricades were necessary

00:21:22.890 --> 00:21:24.500
politically and strategically,

00:21:25.170 --> 00:21:27.290
and anything went
in making strong

00:21:27.290 --> 00:21:29.570
and, this time,
permanent-type barricades.

00:21:29.570 --> 00:21:31.010
STUDENT ORGANIZER 6: Defense
is all taken care of.

00:21:31.550 --> 00:21:32.980
Security is a problem,

00:21:32.980 --> 00:21:34.810
letting people in
and out of the buildings.

00:21:34.810 --> 00:21:38.800
Watches—we need people to watch
the windows every night.

00:21:38.800 --> 00:21:40.290
STUDENT ORGANIZER 7: We had
a walkie-talkie setup,

00:21:40.290 --> 00:21:41.930
citizens’ band walkie-talkies,

00:21:41.930 --> 00:21:43.710
plus there were
telephone communications

00:21:43.710 --> 00:21:44.970
to every building,

00:21:44.970 --> 00:21:46.930
which the university tapped.

00:21:46.930 --> 00:21:49.270
We had three mimeographs
at work constantly,

00:21:49.270 --> 00:21:51.360
and there were people who did
nothing during the strike

00:21:51.360 --> 00:21:52.870
but relay to
the mimeograph machine.

00:21:52.870 --> 00:21:54.280
And there was a big sign
on the wall,

00:21:54.280 --> 00:21:55.350
a quote from somebody
in Berkeley,

00:21:55.350 --> 00:21:58.660
who says five students
and a mimeograph machine

00:21:58.660 --> 00:22:01.650
can do more harm to
a university than an army.

00:22:01.650 --> 00:22:04.010
AMY GOODMAN: That’s an excerpt
of Columbia Revolt,

00:22:04.010 --> 00:22:05.650
Third World Newsreel.

00:22:05.650 --> 00:22:07.290
When we come back from break,

00:22:07.290 --> 00:22:10.020
we’ll be joined by four
of the student activists

00:22:10.020 --> 00:22:12.900
at the time who led the strike.

00:22:12.900 --> 00:22:15.520
They’re now lawyers,
working on housing rights,

00:22:15.520 --> 00:22:17.960
community activists
and journalists.

00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:19.960
Stay with us.

00:22:19.960 --> 00:23:21.760
[break]

00:23:21.760 --> 00:23:24.520
AMY GOODMAN: "Draft Morning"
by The Notorious Byrd Brothers,

00:23:24.520 --> 00:23:25.890
1968.

00:23:25.890 --> 00:23:28.180
This is Democracy Now!
The War and Peace Report.

00:23:28.180 --> 00:23:30.130
I’m Amy Goodman,
with Juan González.

00:23:30.130 --> 00:23:33.740
We’re joined now by four
of the student activists

00:23:33.740 --> 00:23:35.470
involved in the Columbia strike.

00:23:35.470 --> 00:23:39.360
In 1968, Raymond Brown
was a leader

00:23:39.360 --> 00:23:42.300
of the Student Afro-American
Society at Columbia,

00:23:42.300 --> 00:23:44.260
was one of the leaders
of the black students

00:23:44.260 --> 00:23:47.550
who occupied Columbia
University’s Hamilton Hall.

00:23:47.550 --> 00:23:49.120
He’s now a criminal
defense lawyer

00:23:49.120 --> 00:23:52.190
who also practices
international human rights law.

00:23:52.190 --> 00:23:55.080
Nancy Biberman is with us.
She’s here in New York.

00:23:55.080 --> 00:23:56.920
She was a student
at Barnard College

00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:00.170
at the time of the '68 strike,
a member of SDS,

00:24:00.170 --> 00:24:02.390
Students for
a Democratic Society,

00:24:02.390 --> 00:24:04.790
now a lawyer working
in community development

00:24:04.790 --> 00:24:06.290
and founder of
the Women's Housing

00:24:06.290 --> 00:24:09.320
and Economic Development
Corporation in the Bronx.

00:24:09.320 --> 00:24:13.470
Joining us from Albuquerque,
New Mexico, Mark Rudd.

00:24:13.470 --> 00:24:17.090
He was chairman of the Columbia
University chapter of SDS

00:24:17.090 --> 00:24:19.610
during the student
strike of April 1968,

00:24:19.610 --> 00:24:22.830
elected national
secretary in 1969

00:24:22.830 --> 00:24:25.230
and was the last
to hold that position.

00:24:25.230 --> 00:24:26.680
And we’re joined by Paul Cronin,

00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:30.040
editor of the new book
A Time to Stir: Columbia ’68.

00:24:30.900 --> 00:24:35.450
Paul Cronin made a 7-hour
documentary about Columbia ’68.

00:24:35.450 --> 00:24:38.730
He teaches at the School
of Visual Arts here in New York.

00:24:38.730 --> 00:24:42.130
And Democracy Now!
co-host Juan Gonzalez,

00:24:42.130 --> 00:24:44.660
one of the student
strike leaders, as well.

00:24:44.660 --> 00:24:47.580
Now, you were all—Raymond, Juan,

00:24:47.580 --> 00:24:52.300
Nancy, Mark—you were
all there on April 23rd,

00:24:52.300 --> 00:24:53.720
50 years ago today.

00:24:53.720 --> 00:24:55.550
Juan, why don’t you
kick this off?

00:24:55.550 --> 00:24:57.300
Describe what happened
that morning.

00:24:58.310 --> 00:25:01.870
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, there was
a major rally called

00:25:01.870 --> 00:25:03.100
by the Students

00:25:03.100 --> 00:25:04.380
for a Democratic Society,

00:25:04.380 --> 00:25:09.300
as well as the members of the
Student Afro-American Society,

00:25:09.300 --> 00:25:10.980
who joined the protest, as well,

00:25:11.740 --> 00:25:14.980
basically continuing
the ongoing protest

00:25:14.980 --> 00:25:18.230
against the university’s
involvement in research

00:25:18.870 --> 00:25:21.630
for the Institute
for Defense Analysis,

00:25:21.630 --> 00:25:23.880
a group that was doing
a lot of research

00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:26.160
for the Pentagon
for the Vietnam War,

00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:28.560
and against the construction
of the gymnasium

00:25:28.560 --> 00:25:32.680
that Columbia was trying
to build in Morningside Park.

00:25:32.680 --> 00:25:36.800
And a variety of forces
came together—the SDS students,

00:25:37.590 --> 00:25:38.980
the SAS students,

00:25:38.980 --> 00:25:40.540
a lot of other folks
who were involved

00:25:40.540 --> 00:25:42.250
in the community
struggles around the gym.

00:25:43.040 --> 00:25:46.310
And everyone gathered
at the Sundial and,

00:25:47.710 --> 00:25:50.040
initially, marched
to the gym site

00:25:50.040 --> 00:25:52.400
and then came back on campus.

00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:54.680
And we all ended up
in Hamilton Hall,

00:25:54.680 --> 00:25:57.840
which was the main
undergraduate classroom

00:25:57.840 --> 00:26:00.660
building for the Columbia
College students.

00:26:00.660 --> 00:26:02.310
And that’s when
the sit-in began.

00:26:02.310 --> 00:26:03.550
AMY GOODMAN: So, Ray Brown,

00:26:03.550 --> 00:26:08.190
describe the role of
the Afro-American Society,

00:26:08.190 --> 00:26:10.480
your role.
What happened that day?

00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:11.990
RAYMOND BROWN: Well, the black
student role has often

00:26:11.990 --> 00:26:13.650
been ignored,
especially by the media.

00:26:13.650 --> 00:26:17.150
The New York Times managed
to cover this in detail for days

00:26:17.150 --> 00:26:18.260
and never mention us.

00:26:18.260 --> 00:26:20.640
But we got a telegram
from Chairman Mao.

00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:21.870
Somehow, the People’s
Republic of China

00:26:21.870 --> 00:26:23.310
knew what the black
students were doing,

00:26:23.310 --> 00:26:24.720
New York Times did not.

00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:26.980
But certainly, the black
students played a pivotal role,

00:26:26.980 --> 00:26:28.480
because, first of all,
we were more disciplined

00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:29.580
than any other group.

00:26:29.580 --> 00:26:31.130
We determined—we were the first

00:26:31.130 --> 00:26:33.010
to determine to
barricade buildings.

00:26:33.010 --> 00:26:34.550
We asked, in a manner
that’s become

00:26:34.550 --> 00:26:36.510
controversial
in the ensuing years,

00:26:36.510 --> 00:26:38.710
the white students to leave
and grab other buildings.

00:26:38.710 --> 00:26:40.860
And we barricaded
that first building.

00:26:40.860 --> 00:26:42.410
Our role was
strategically pivotal

00:26:42.410 --> 00:26:45.250
because city had just
erupted weeks earlier

00:26:45.250 --> 00:26:46.460
after Dr. King’s death.

00:26:46.460 --> 00:26:49.070
There was a perception
that Harlem might rise,

00:26:49.070 --> 00:26:51.140
and we did have a lot
of community support.

00:26:51.140 --> 00:26:53.540
And so, the reason
this lasted for seven days

00:26:53.540 --> 00:26:56.310
was because nobody wanted
to arrest the black students,

00:26:56.310 --> 00:26:57.130
and, subsequently,

00:26:57.130 --> 00:26:58.660
that meant they couldn’t
arrest white students.

00:26:58.660 --> 00:27:00.000
So, our role was pivotal,

00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:01.870
though ignored historically
and journalistically.

00:27:01.870 --> 00:27:04.430
AMY GOODMAN: So, I want to go
to a clip from the confrontation

00:27:04.430 --> 00:27:05.370
at Hamilton Hall

00:27:05.370 --> 00:27:08.020
when students first
trapped acting college

00:27:08.020 --> 00:27:10.810
Dean Henry Coleman
in his first-floor office.

00:27:10.810 --> 00:27:14.260
The audio was from
the campus radio station, WKCR.

00:27:14.260 --> 00:27:17.380
It’s narrated by, well,
no other than Robert Siegel,

00:27:17.380 --> 00:27:19.000
class of 1969.

00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:22.070
ROBERT SIEGEL: Dean of
Columbia College Henry S.

00:27:22.070 --> 00:27:25.910
Coleman confronts demonstrators
in the lobby of Hamilton Hall.

00:27:25.910 --> 00:27:27.870
DEAN HENRY COLEMAN: Am I
to understand

00:27:27.870 --> 00:27:29.580
then that I am not allowed
to leave this building?

00:27:30.100 --> 00:27:31.960
STUDENT: Well, let me ask.
Is he to understand

00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:33.470
that he’s not to be able
to leave this building?

00:27:35.290 --> 00:27:36.450
STUDENTS: Yes!

00:27:36.450 --> 00:27:38.510
AMY GOODMAN: So, Ray Brown,
remember that?

00:27:38.510 --> 00:27:40.290
RAYMOND BROWN: We regarded
Dean Coleman as our guest,

00:27:40.290 --> 00:27:41.940
not as a hostage.

00:27:41.940 --> 00:27:43.270
He had actually
personally recruited me.

00:27:43.270 --> 00:27:45.360
Most of the black students—
he was very popular

00:27:45.360 --> 00:27:46.360
among black students.

00:27:46.360 --> 00:27:47.630
He was involved in admissions.

00:27:47.630 --> 00:27:49.100
He had also reached out a lot,

00:27:49.100 --> 00:27:50.130
perhaps more than
any other dean.

00:27:50.130 --> 00:27:51.730
So it was ironic
that he was there.

00:27:51.730 --> 00:27:54.260
And once we had seized
control of the building,

00:27:54.260 --> 00:27:57.780
we didn’t need him anymore,
and we invited him to leave—also

00:27:57.780 --> 00:27:58.580
because there were a couple

00:27:58.580 --> 00:27:59.920
of black students
in the law school.

00:27:59.920 --> 00:28:02.110
They said, "You ought not
mention words like 'kidnapping'

00:28:02.110 --> 00:28:04.440
and 'hostage.'"

00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:06.030
AMY GOODMAN: And did the white
students leave, by the way,

00:28:06.030 --> 00:28:07.010
and take over other buildings?

00:28:07.010 --> 00:28:08.500
RAYMOND BROWN: They did leave,
in response to a polite

00:28:08.500 --> 00:28:09.220
but firm request.

00:28:09.220 --> 00:28:10.620
The black students
met that first night.

00:28:10.620 --> 00:28:13.880
You couldn’t have black students
effectively sitting cheek

00:28:13.880 --> 00:28:15.360
by jowl with the white students,

00:28:15.360 --> 00:28:18.430
who were everybody from
Leninists and SDSers to kids

00:28:18.430 --> 00:28:19.950
who wanted to have a teach-in,

00:28:19.950 --> 00:28:21.690
people who were sort
of countercultural folks.

00:28:21.690 --> 00:28:22.770
We couldn’t have maintained it.

00:28:22.770 --> 00:28:24.430
We were disciplined
and coherent.

00:28:24.430 --> 00:28:25.600
We knew each other well.

00:28:25.600 --> 00:28:28.840
And we were clear about the fact
that this was not a revolution,

00:28:28.840 --> 00:28:29.980
but a demonstration,

00:28:29.980 --> 00:28:32.000
and that ultimately force
would be used against us.

00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:34.970
And so, we were very firm
on those issues.

00:28:34.970 --> 00:28:36.040
AMY GOODMAN: Nancy Biberman,

00:28:36.040 --> 00:28:38.080
describe what you were
doing there that day,

00:28:38.080 --> 00:28:40.380
April 23rd, 1968.

00:28:41.330 --> 00:28:45.440
NANCY BIBERMAN: So, at noon,
we all gathered at the Sundial

00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:48.430
in the middle of
the college campus,

00:28:48.430 --> 00:28:49.770
and there was a rally.

00:28:49.770 --> 00:28:52.110
And the rally was about,
you know,

00:28:52.110 --> 00:28:55.760
the ongoing anger
at the war in Vietnam

00:28:55.760 --> 00:28:59.680
and, in particular,
our university’s affiliation

00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:03.060
with research for the war.

00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:06.460
And we were also
very much aware,

00:29:06.460 --> 00:29:09.980
as Ray said, Dr. King
had just died.

00:29:09.980 --> 00:29:12.490
You know, we were—had been
assassinated.

00:29:13.090 --> 00:29:14.730
You know, we were
all in the streets,

00:29:14.730 --> 00:29:17.980
and I think everyone
was in high-tension mode.

00:29:17.980 --> 00:29:21.060
And, you know, what we were
able to focus on—I mean,

00:29:21.060 --> 00:29:24.970
symbols are as important
as facts sometimes,

00:29:24.970 --> 00:29:26.450
and in this case, especially,

00:29:27.260 --> 00:29:32.540
the gym was the most
powerful symbol of racism

00:29:32.540 --> 00:29:34.870
that we could see
in our neighborhood.

00:29:34.870 --> 00:29:36.120
It was right there.

00:29:36.120 --> 00:29:38.750
It was on a bluff,
the proposed gym

00:29:38.750 --> 00:29:42.090
between the university
and Harlem.

00:29:42.090 --> 00:29:43.740
It was a public park.

00:29:43.740 --> 00:29:47.160
And it was, you know,
designed for students,

00:29:47.780 --> 00:29:50.410
with a backdoor entrance
to the community.

00:29:50.410 --> 00:29:53.920
It was offensive, and we were
all rallying behind that.

00:29:54.550 --> 00:29:56.280
AMY GOODMAN: And the role
of women?

00:29:56.280 --> 00:29:59.100
NANCY BIBERMAN: So, the role
of women is more complicated.

00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:01.280
I would like to say, however,

00:30:02.760 --> 00:30:05.410
for a couple of my sisters
who are listening out there,

00:30:06.030 --> 00:30:09.490
that two women
were the ones to yell,

00:30:10.590 --> 00:30:12.660
after we couldn’t
get into Low Library,

00:30:12.660 --> 00:30:14.490
having just run
from the Sundial,

00:30:15.320 --> 00:30:16.960
"To the gym!"

00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:18.540
Two women said,
"To the gym."

00:30:18.540 --> 00:30:22.490
And it was from that moment
that we all ran to the gym

00:30:23.870 --> 00:30:25.930
and, you know,
jumped into the bulldozers.

00:30:28.150 --> 00:30:31.240
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: I’d like to ask
Mark Rudd to step in.

00:30:31.240 --> 00:30:34.260
Mark, your name is
probably most associated

00:30:34.260 --> 00:30:36.540
with the Columbia strike
of all of the protesters,

00:30:36.540 --> 00:30:39.540
yet today, in today’s
The New York Times,

00:30:39.540 --> 00:30:44.210
you attempt to try
to correct the history

00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:47.790
or the narrative that has
developed over the decades.

00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:55.410
MARK RUDD: Right. There’s a lot
to be said, of course,

00:30:55.410 --> 00:30:56.570
about the Columbia strike,

00:30:56.570 --> 00:31:01.600
but that point that the
leadership of the black students

00:31:02.490 --> 00:31:03.860
has got to be made.

00:31:04.590 --> 00:31:10.490
It’s relevant today
because too often the narrative

00:31:10.490 --> 00:31:13.290
of contemporary struggles

00:31:13.290 --> 00:31:15.000
focuses on the white kids.

00:31:15.500 --> 00:31:20.680
Well, it’s going to be—this
particular movement

00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:24.060
that we have now, or movements,
are being led by women

00:31:24.060 --> 00:31:26.610
and also by nonwhite people.

00:31:26.610 --> 00:31:29.320
So, this is a good time
to look back

00:31:30.970 --> 00:31:33.920
and see what relevant
history there is.

00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:36.300
RAYMOND BROWN: I think it’s
important to point out that Mark

00:31:36.300 --> 00:31:38.250
and some of the leaders
have been

00:31:38.250 --> 00:31:39.580
not only historically accurate,

00:31:39.580 --> 00:31:41.270
but gracious,
in the last decade, in saying,

00:31:41.270 --> 00:31:43.070
"Look, there was a misperception

00:31:43.070 --> 00:31:44.600
as to how this happened
at the time."

00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:47.240
Mark asked me to speak
at his book launch.

00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:48.880
Bill Sales and other
black students

00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:50.530
like myself get calls
from the media:

00:31:50.530 --> 00:31:53.060
Mark Rudd said you should
talk to you instead of him.

00:31:53.060 --> 00:31:55.580
So, there has been a recognition
by some leadership.

00:31:55.580 --> 00:31:57.610
But that hasn’t taken
away the tension

00:31:57.610 --> 00:31:58.970
that still exists

00:31:58.970 --> 00:32:01.050
at a number of events
on the part of white students

00:32:01.050 --> 00:32:03.540
who feel they were expelled
improperly from Hamilton Hall,

00:32:03.540 --> 00:32:05.380
a very interesting
kind of tension.

00:32:05.380 --> 00:32:08.140
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to
turn to this clip

00:32:08.140 --> 00:32:10.490
from the Columbia
Revolt, the film.

00:32:10.490 --> 00:32:14.000
This is H. Rap Brown,
now Jamil Abdullah Al-Amin,

00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:16.150
reading a statement
from black students

00:32:16.150 --> 00:32:20.080
who occupied Hamilton Hall
during the 1968 strike.

00:32:21.610 --> 00:32:23.550
H. RAP BROWN: The black students
of Columbia University,

00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:26.440
joined by a few members
of the black community,

00:32:26.440 --> 00:32:29.960
have been in Hamilton Hall
for 56 hours—more than that now.

00:32:30.690 --> 00:32:33.760
We have established a cafeteria
with adequate stores,

00:32:33.760 --> 00:32:35.220
all continuously.

00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:37.970
A physician is in charge
of our infirmary.

00:32:38.870 --> 00:32:40.870
Morale is high.

00:32:42.730 --> 00:32:43.750
AMY GOODMAN: Again, that was H.

00:32:43.750 --> 00:32:45.990
Rap Brown, now Jamil
Abdullah Al-Amin.

00:32:45.990 --> 00:32:48.310
But that’s back in 1968.

00:32:48.310 --> 00:32:50.560
Protesters who barricaded
Hamilton Hall

00:32:50.560 --> 00:32:53.140
renamed it Malcolm
X University, Ray?

00:32:53.140 --> 00:32:55.500
RAYMOND BROWN: That’s true.
We were very self-conscious

00:32:55.500 --> 00:32:56.700
about our role politically

00:32:56.700 --> 00:32:58.810
and that we represented
a larger community.

00:32:58.810 --> 00:33:01.360
Many of us had been involved
in the movement over the years.

00:33:01.360 --> 00:33:02.500
That statement was written

00:33:02.500 --> 00:33:04.500
by the Black Students
of Hamilton Hall.

00:33:04.500 --> 00:33:06.550
Stokely Carmichael
and Basil Paterson

00:33:06.550 --> 00:33:07.950
and other members
of the Democratic

00:33:07.950 --> 00:33:09.790
political establishment
came through,

00:33:09.790 --> 00:33:11.320
along with many
community organizers,

00:33:11.320 --> 00:33:13.250
who said,
"We’ll do whatever you want,

00:33:13.250 --> 00:33:14.690
and we’ll help
foster this notion

00:33:14.690 --> 00:33:15.900
that the community really cares

00:33:15.900 --> 00:33:17.110
and is connected to you."

00:33:17.110 --> 00:33:18.880
And so, it’s important
to understand

00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:20.110
that organic connection,

00:33:20.110 --> 00:33:23.400
as well, as an important
part of this uprising,

00:33:24.100 --> 00:33:25.610
one that, again,
wasn’t reported

00:33:25.610 --> 00:33:27.020
or covered very
accurately at the time

00:33:27.020 --> 00:33:28.500
by the mainstream media.

00:33:28.500 --> 00:33:31.120
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: I’d like to bring
Paul into this discussion.

00:33:31.120 --> 00:33:32.740
You’ve been—you’ve
spent the last,

00:33:32.740 --> 00:33:36.080
what, 10 years of your life
working on a project,

00:33:36.080 --> 00:33:37.710
both a book
on the Columbia strike

00:33:37.710 --> 00:33:41.310
and this 7-hour marathon film
that you’ve developed,

00:33:42.550 --> 00:33:46.150
and yet you’re a British
national, right, originally?

00:33:46.150 --> 00:33:48.460
PAUL CRONIN: No, actually,
I’m American, too.

00:33:48.460 --> 00:33:50.160
My mother is—my mother
is American.

00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:50.420
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Oh, OK.

00:33:50.420 --> 00:33:51.760
PAUL CRONIN: So I grew up
in a Mid-Atlantic

00:33:51.760 --> 00:33:53.440
household in London,
it’s true, yes.

00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:56.100
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Oh, OK. But tell
us why you decided to do this,

00:33:56.100 --> 00:33:58.240
why you spent so much
of your life on this.

00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:00.050
PAUL CRONIN: Well,
the bottom line is,

00:34:00.050 --> 00:34:01.770
it’s just a fascinating story.

00:34:01.770 --> 00:34:04.430
And it’s not as if anyone
had revisited it

00:34:04.430 --> 00:34:07.280
in any detail since 1968.

00:34:07.280 --> 00:34:08.600
Some Ph.D.

00:34:08.600 --> 00:34:09.850
student had not come along

00:34:09.850 --> 00:34:11.450
and pulled all
the material together.

00:34:12.530 --> 00:34:15.960
I was—I knew there are
plenty of people around from '68

00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:17.410
who would be able to talk.

00:34:17.410 --> 00:34:20.050
The fact is, Columbia University
was full of very smart people,

00:34:20.050 --> 00:34:21.280
very articulate people.

00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:22.760
And I've met
some extraordinarily

00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:24.070
articulate people
over the years.

00:34:24.690 --> 00:34:29.050
Also, the massive raw primary
material that’s come

00:34:29.050 --> 00:34:33.850
to light—I have generated an
archive of 30,000 photographs,

00:34:34.510 --> 00:34:36.210
most of which have
never been seen before,

00:34:36.210 --> 00:34:37.920
thousands of pages of documents.

00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:41.130
So, it’s just been
a fascinating story to tell.

00:34:41.130 --> 00:34:42.590
It’s a very dramatic story.

00:34:42.590 --> 00:34:44.610
I mean, the interplay
between the black students

00:34:44.610 --> 00:34:48.100
and the white students, between
the faculty and the students.

00:34:48.100 --> 00:34:50.870
I mean, any number
of dynamics at play here

00:34:50.870 --> 00:34:53.910
make it a very interesting
and dramatic story.

00:34:53.910 --> 00:34:54.240
AMY GOODMAN: And you did—

00:34:54.240 --> 00:34:54.880
RAYMOND BROWN: Paul is
too modest.

00:34:54.880 --> 00:34:56.270
I mean, his ERICs
have been Homeric.

00:34:56.270 --> 00:34:59.420
I mean, this guy spent
10 years talking to people,

00:34:59.420 --> 00:35:00.840
interviewing hundreds of people.

00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:02.070
And he’s, I suppose,

00:35:02.070 --> 00:35:03.950
one person who’s tried
to really look

00:35:03.950 --> 00:35:05.430
deeply into what
really happened.

00:35:05.430 --> 00:35:08.550
AMY GOODMAN: It’s the Shoah
of protest films

00:35:08.550 --> 00:35:10.720
at university college campuses.

00:35:10.720 --> 00:35:12.200
It’s seven hours, right?

00:35:12.200 --> 00:35:14.380
PAUL CRONIN: It is seven hours.
It’s also the Rashomon,

00:35:14.380 --> 00:35:16.310
as Ray pointed out
the other day to me.

00:35:18.450 --> 00:35:21.290
I interviewed 700 people
on film for this project.

00:35:21.290 --> 00:35:23.090
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: But you also
interviewed police

00:35:23.090 --> 00:35:24.630
who participated in the attacks—

00:35:24.630 --> 00:35:25.130
PAUL CRONIN: Well, right.

00:35:25.130 --> 00:35:26.690
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: —city officials
and—

00:35:26.690 --> 00:35:28.410
PAUL CRONIN: Police.
I mean, there’s any number

00:35:28.410 --> 00:35:31.330
of so many different

00:35:31.330 --> 00:35:33.050
constituencies here at play,

00:35:33.710 --> 00:35:36.040
each one of which are
at odds with the other.

00:35:36.040 --> 00:35:40.270
So, frankly, you can
sort of—you could focus

00:35:40.270 --> 00:35:42.390
the entire story
in the mayor’s office,

00:35:42.390 --> 00:35:44.810
for example,
or in the police department.

00:35:44.810 --> 00:35:46.920
But even within the police
department, for example,

00:35:47.570 --> 00:35:50.210
there’s an interplay going on
between the beat cops,

00:35:50.210 --> 00:35:52.010
the cops on the beat
up in Morningside—

00:35:53.570 --> 00:35:54.440
AMY GOODMAN: Morningside
Heights.

00:35:54.440 --> 00:35:56.340
PAUL CRONIN: —Morningside
Heights, and, say,

00:35:56.340 --> 00:35:58.290
the TPF,
the Tactical Patrol Force,

00:35:58.290 --> 00:36:01.350
which was this elite group
of cops who were in existence,

00:36:01.350 --> 00:36:03.880
I think, from ’59 to 1984.

00:36:03.880 --> 00:36:06.180
And by ’68, they were sort of
at the peak of their powers.

00:36:06.180 --> 00:36:09.620
They were sort of parachuted in
to hotspots around the city.

00:36:09.620 --> 00:36:12.220
So, the beat cops
were not terribly happy

00:36:12.220 --> 00:36:15.260
to have these guys
on their turf.

00:36:15.260 --> 00:36:18.210
So, any number
of these interactions

00:36:18.210 --> 00:36:20.730
creates interesting stories
and interesting drama.

00:36:20.730 --> 00:36:23.600
AMY GOODMAN: Let’s go to a clip
of your film, Paul Cronin,

00:36:23.600 --> 00:36:25.290
A Time to Stir.

00:36:25.290 --> 00:36:28.470
Here, former Columbia students
who participated in the protests

00:36:28.470 --> 00:36:32.000
recall a key moment during which
students take down a fence.

00:36:33.150 --> 00:36:35.620
FORMER COLUMBIA STUDENT 1: It
was a deeply symbolic moment,

00:36:35.620 --> 00:36:38.520
because on this side
of the fence is legality,

00:36:38.520 --> 00:36:41.030
politeness—I am part
of the establishment,

00:36:41.030 --> 00:36:43.080
expressing my opinion—and
on the other side

00:36:43.080 --> 00:36:47.130
of this very humble
chicken-wire fence is trespass,

00:36:47.130 --> 00:36:49.950
the realization
that we are called upon

00:36:49.950 --> 00:36:52.210
to do more than simply
express our opinions.

00:36:52.210 --> 00:36:54.170
FORMER COLUMBIA STUDENT 2: I
remember them pushing.

00:36:54.170 --> 00:36:56.490
I remember them feeling
that finally they could

00:36:56.490 --> 00:36:57.730
grab the fence,

00:36:57.730 --> 00:37:01.130
but also grab history,
grab the world, change it.

00:37:01.130 --> 00:37:03.600
AMY GOODMAN: And talk about
what that fence was, Juan.

00:37:03.600 --> 00:37:06.430
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, that was
the fence that was erected

00:37:06.430 --> 00:37:09.450
at the construction site
for the new gymnasium.

00:37:09.450 --> 00:37:13.180
And, actually, I had been
arrested trying—in protesting

00:37:13.900 --> 00:37:15.290
in that construction site

00:37:15.290 --> 00:37:16.510
a couple of months

00:37:16.510 --> 00:37:20.340
before the actual Columbia
protests erupted,

00:37:20.340 --> 00:37:22.240
when there were
some community protests.

00:37:22.240 --> 00:37:25.770
And so, that fence
was sort of the symbol

00:37:25.770 --> 00:37:27.250
of this new gym going up.

00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:30.060
And there had been various
protests at the fence,

00:37:30.060 --> 00:37:31.830
at the construction site itself.

00:37:31.830 --> 00:37:33.940
So, when some of the students

00:37:33.940 --> 00:37:35.870
began to tear down
the fence that day,

00:37:35.870 --> 00:37:37.220
that was sort of a symbol of,

00:37:37.220 --> 00:37:38.710
"OK, you’re not going to
hold us back anymore.

00:37:38.710 --> 00:37:39.970
We’re dealing with this issue."

00:37:39.970 --> 00:37:41.820
PAUL CRONIN: And what my film
tries to do, and I think—I mean,

00:37:42.950 --> 00:37:45.160
Mark is very good on this.
I know Mark can speak to this.

00:37:45.160 --> 00:37:47.100
But the film is seven hours,
in part,

00:37:47.100 --> 00:37:50.800
because April 23rd, 1968,
50 years to this day,

00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:52.670
doesn’t come in
until two hours in.

00:37:52.670 --> 00:37:55.170
I mean, there’s a whole
back story to 1968.

00:37:55.170 --> 00:37:57.030
And I’ve been reading,
in the last two or three days,

00:37:57.030 --> 00:38:01.180
the very brief newspaper
summaries of events.

00:38:01.180 --> 00:38:02.830
And they—I mean,

00:38:02.830 --> 00:38:06.020
to say they barely scratch
the surface is self-evident.

00:38:06.020 --> 00:38:08.830
There’s an extraordinarily
interesting story—in a way,

00:38:08.830 --> 00:38:10.580
even more interesting
than what happened

00:38:10.580 --> 00:38:14.410
in '68—the story of the founding
of SDS on the Columbia campus,

00:38:14.410 --> 00:38:17.410
the founding of SAS,
Student Afro-American Society,

00:38:17.410 --> 00:38:19.060
on campus,
the growing organizing,

00:38:19.700 --> 00:38:22.190
the antiwar activism
that's going on.

00:38:22.190 --> 00:38:23.740
It brings together

00:38:23.740 --> 00:38:25.590
extraordinarily
interesting people.

00:38:25.590 --> 00:38:26.990
RAYMOND BROWN: There’s an
interesting part of this—

00:38:26.990 --> 00:38:27.450
AMY GOODMAN: Ray Brown.

00:38:27.450 --> 00:38:28.710
RAYMOND BROWN: —that young
people especially

00:38:28.710 --> 00:38:29.910
don’t understand.

00:38:29.910 --> 00:38:32.350
1964 is 10 years after Brown v.

00:38:32.350 --> 00:38:34.680
Board of Education,
nine years after Emmett Till,

00:38:34.680 --> 00:38:36.150
nine years after Bandung.

00:38:36.150 --> 00:38:37.830
We were very conscious
of the fact

00:38:37.830 --> 00:38:40.060
that the university
was kind of saying,

00:38:40.060 --> 00:38:42.790
"Well, maybe if white supremacy
isn’t the thing anymore,

00:38:42.790 --> 00:38:44.730
we’ve got to have
some brown students here."

00:38:44.730 --> 00:38:46.820
Their mistake was in assuming
that brown students

00:38:46.820 --> 00:38:48.180
were white students
with brown skin,

00:38:48.180 --> 00:38:50.320
and not engaging with us
on the issues

00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:51.880
that we brought to this reality.

00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:54.720
But this is, really,
shortly after the government,

00:38:54.720 --> 00:38:56.170
through the courts, have said,

00:38:56.170 --> 00:38:57.830
"Well, white supremacy
isn’t hip anymore,

00:38:57.830 --> 00:38:58.740
because we’ve got to persuade

00:38:58.740 --> 00:39:00.170
the rest of the people
in the brown world

00:39:00.170 --> 00:39:02.230
that we’re really better
than the communists."

00:39:02.230 --> 00:39:04.650
So, that’s the context
in which this all took place.

00:39:04.650 --> 00:39:05.640
AMY GOODMAN: So,
how many black students

00:39:05.640 --> 00:39:07.070
were at Columbia in 1968?

00:39:07.070 --> 00:39:08.420
RAYMOND BROWN: My class,
which came in in ’64,

00:39:08.420 --> 00:39:10.490
the class of ’68,
had 20 students—biggest class

00:39:10.490 --> 00:39:11.550
they had ever had
in the college.

00:39:11.550 --> 00:39:13.610
AMY GOODMAN: How many students
were there at the college?

00:39:13.610 --> 00:39:15.150
RAYMOND BROWN: About 2,600,
I think.

00:39:15.150 --> 00:39:16.900
So, it was tiny, minuscule.

00:39:16.900 --> 00:39:18.190
By the time of
the demonstrations,

00:39:18.190 --> 00:39:20.160
we had maybe a hundred,
although there were

00:39:20.160 --> 00:39:21.850
some graduate students
thrown in the mix.

00:39:21.850 --> 00:39:23.590
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And the same
was true of Latinos.

00:39:23.590 --> 00:39:28.190
I think I was one of only
two Latinos in my class,

00:39:28.190 --> 00:39:30.600
in my class at Columbia,

00:39:30.600 --> 00:39:31.990
and the same thing,
class of ’68.

00:39:31.990 --> 00:39:33.090
AMY GOODMAN: And your year was?

00:39:33.090 --> 00:39:34.590
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: I was class
of '68.

00:39:34.590 --> 00:39:35.790
And there weren't
even enough Latinos

00:39:35.790 --> 00:39:37.700
to have an organization
back then.

00:39:37.700 --> 00:39:41.290
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Juan, let’s
go back to you, 50 years ago.

00:39:41.290 --> 00:39:43.600
This is Democracy
Now!’s own Juan González

00:39:43.600 --> 00:39:44.900
speaking during the strike.

00:39:46.020 --> 00:39:48.380
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Now we want to go
into the dorms with all of you,

00:39:48.380 --> 00:39:50.600
with some of you
who may not—who may not agree

00:39:50.600 --> 00:39:52.360
with a lot of what
we’ve been saying here,

00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:54.430
who have questions,
who support us,

00:39:54.430 --> 00:39:55.770
who want to know more.

00:39:55.770 --> 00:39:57.010
Let’s go to the dorms.

00:39:57.010 --> 00:40:00.210
Let’s talk quietly,
in small groups.

00:40:00.210 --> 00:40:03.980
We’ll be there, and everyone in
Livingston—in Livingston lobby,

00:40:03.980 --> 00:40:06.370
in Furnald lobby,
in Carman lobby.

00:40:06.370 --> 00:40:09.010
We’ll be there, and we’ll talk
about the issues involved,

00:40:09.010 --> 00:40:10.930
and we’ll talk about
where this country is going

00:40:10.930 --> 00:40:12.590
and where this university
is going

00:40:12.590 --> 00:40:14.330
and what it’s doing
in the society

00:40:14.330 --> 00:40:17.210
and what we would like you to do
and what we would—and

00:40:17.210 --> 00:40:19.600
how we would like to exchange
with you our ideas over it.

00:40:20.150 --> 00:40:21.710
Come join us now.

00:40:21.710 --> 00:40:24.170
AMY GOODMAN: So, Mark Rudd,
in Albuquerque, New Mexico,

00:40:24.170 --> 00:40:26.020
where you live now,
this whole idea,

00:40:26.020 --> 00:40:28.310
as Juan is announcing
the teach-ins,

00:40:28.310 --> 00:40:31.720
the different places to have
discussions during the strike,

00:40:31.720 --> 00:40:33.080
talk more about this,

00:40:33.080 --> 00:40:36.080
and talk about
your being head of SDS,

00:40:36.080 --> 00:40:37.960
the Students for
a Democratic Society.

00:40:39.900 --> 00:40:44.310
MARK RUDD: Well, first of all,
I just want to say

00:40:44.310 --> 00:40:47.590
how exciting it is

00:40:47.590 --> 00:40:51.610
to be on with my old comrades.

00:40:52.330 --> 00:40:55.250
I wish I were present
with you in the studio.

00:40:55.760 --> 00:41:01.440
The couple of things
that occur to me in regard

00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:03.170
to the conversation

00:41:03.170 --> 00:41:04.930
we’re having at the moment

00:41:04.930 --> 00:41:09.600
is that the university was not
prepared for the black students.

00:41:10.270 --> 00:41:12.810
Ray and other people
have written about this.

00:41:12.810 --> 00:41:16.590
And I’d like to hear more
from Ray about that,

00:41:16.590 --> 00:41:19.460
about the ways
in which the university

00:41:19.460 --> 00:41:21.520
failed the black students.

00:41:21.520 --> 00:41:25.760
And I think probably
most of us white kids, too,

00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:27.330
failed the black students.

00:41:27.330 --> 00:41:29.490
So, let’s talk about that.

00:41:29.490 --> 00:41:35.430
But I just wanted to say
that the story of any action,

00:41:36.700 --> 00:41:40.760
any protest,
usually goes way back.

00:41:41.750 --> 00:41:45.860
And in this particular case,
it has to do with, in part,

00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:53.590
years of organizing
that SDS engaged in.

00:41:54.640 --> 00:42:01.020
When I got there in September
of '65, what became SDS,

00:42:01.020 --> 00:42:03.480
the students who became,
who formed SDS,

00:42:03.480 --> 00:42:07.070
had already been organizing
against the university's racism,

00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:11.320
in the form of the university

00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:16.490
refusing to allow black
and Latino cafeteria workers

00:42:16.490 --> 00:42:19.280
to form a union—it was clear

00:42:19.280 --> 00:42:23.980
racism—and also the university’s
involvement in the war,

00:42:23.980 --> 00:42:25.370
which had just began,

00:42:26.050 --> 00:42:29.660
in April and—well,
with main force troops.

00:42:29.660 --> 00:42:32.340
The university was
training naval officers.

00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:42.690
So, the organizing, meaning the
education and our self-education

00:42:42.690 --> 00:42:48.520
and our educating the campus
and a number of tactics,

00:42:48.520 --> 00:42:51.370
like confrontations
and petitions

00:42:51.370 --> 00:42:53.940
and meetings and teach-ins,

00:42:53.940 --> 00:42:56.390
all these things had been
going on for a long time.

00:42:56.390 --> 00:43:00.190
That’s what I mean about
organizing, that we had goals,

00:43:00.190 --> 00:43:04.180
and we had a strategy and
tactics to achieve those goals.

00:43:04.180 --> 00:43:05.900
In the case of SDS,

00:43:05.900 --> 00:43:08.330
the goals were to
politicize the university

00:43:09.070 --> 00:43:12.830
and to build the antiwar
and anti-racist movements.

00:43:12.830 --> 00:43:17.330
So, that was going on well
before I got there in ’65.

00:43:17.330 --> 00:43:25.120
And in a sense, we helped
lay the groundwork for ’68.

00:43:27.800 --> 00:43:30.610
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Mark,
we’re going to break and—

00:43:30.610 --> 00:43:33.430
MARK RUDD: The great civil
rights organizer and leader,

00:43:33.430 --> 00:43:36.870
Ella Jo Baker, has often
talked about—often talked about

00:43:36.870 --> 00:43:38.550
doing the spadework.

00:43:38.550 --> 00:43:39.930
Well, we did that spadework.

00:43:41.080 --> 00:43:44.890
So, that’s a story,
I think, is worth telling,

00:43:44.890 --> 00:43:46.970
because it’s got to be done now.

00:43:47.510 --> 00:43:51.120
That organizing, strategic
organizing, is the issue.

00:43:51.120 --> 00:43:54.660
AMY GOODMAN: Mark Rudd was
the head of SDS in 1968,

00:43:54.660 --> 00:43:57.890
on this day 50 years ago,
April 23rd,

00:43:57.890 --> 00:44:00.960
1968, the Colombia revolt,

00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:02.750
when African-American students

00:44:02.750 --> 00:44:08.390
led white students of SDS,
Juan González,

00:44:08.390 --> 00:44:10.910
one of maybe
two Latino students,

00:44:10.910 --> 00:44:14.090
Nancy Biberman,
all in Hamilton Hall,

00:44:14.090 --> 00:44:16.010
what they called
Malcolm X University.

00:44:16.010 --> 00:44:18.200
When we come back,
where this all led,

00:44:18.200 --> 00:44:23.230
one of the largest mass arrests
a week later, 700 people.

00:44:23.230 --> 00:44:24.490
Again, this is the period

00:44:24.490 --> 00:44:27.340
between the assassination
of Dr. Martin Luther King

00:44:27.340 --> 00:44:29.750
and the assassination
of Robert F. Kennedy.

00:44:29.750 --> 00:44:32.260
Also joined by Paul Cronin,

00:44:32.260 --> 00:44:34.090
who’s chronicled
this all in a book,

00:44:34.090 --> 00:44:36.680
A Time to Stir: Columbia ’68.

00:44:36.680 --> 00:44:38.680
Stay with us.

00:44:38.680 --> 00:45:39.260
[break]

00:45:39.260 --> 00:45:40.810
AMY GOODMAN: "Goin’ Down
the Road Feelin’ Bad"

00:45:40.810 --> 00:45:42.810
by Gwen McCrae,
here on Democracy Now!

00:45:42.810 --> 00:45:45.080
I’m Amy Goodman,
with Juan González.

00:45:45.700 --> 00:45:47.290
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well,
50 years ago today,

00:45:47.290 --> 00:45:49.730
hundreds of students at
Columbia University in New York

00:45:49.730 --> 00:45:51.830
started a revolt on campus.

00:45:51.830 --> 00:45:53.540
They occupied five buildings,

00:45:53.540 --> 00:45:56.600
including the president’s
office in Low Library.

00:45:56.600 --> 00:45:58.350
The students
barricaded themselves

00:45:58.350 --> 00:46:00.170
inside the buildings for a week.

00:46:00.170 --> 00:46:02.890
They were protesting Columbia’s
ties to military research

00:46:02.890 --> 00:46:05.960
and plans to build
a university gymnasium

00:46:05.960 --> 00:46:07.940
in a public park in Harlem.

00:46:07.940 --> 00:46:10.110
The protests began
less than three weeks

00:46:10.110 --> 00:46:12.680
after the assassination
of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

00:46:13.350 --> 00:46:16.030
The 1968 Columbia uprising

00:46:16.030 --> 00:46:18.270
led to one of
the largest mass arrests

00:46:18.270 --> 00:46:19.550
in New York City history.

00:46:20.100 --> 00:46:22.380
A week into the strike,
on April 30th,

00:46:22.380 --> 00:46:24.610
New York City police
stormed the campus,

00:46:25.660 --> 00:46:27.590
with hundreds of students
who were injured,

00:46:27.590 --> 00:46:30.340
and 700—more than
700 were arrested.

00:46:30.340 --> 00:46:31.940
Images of the police assault

00:46:31.940 --> 00:46:33.990
were broadcast
across the country.

00:46:33.990 --> 00:46:36.000
This is another clip
from Columbia Revolt

00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:38.000
by Third World Newsreel.

00:46:38.530 --> 00:46:40.200
STUDENT STRIKER 1: They got over
700 of us on charges

00:46:40.200 --> 00:46:41.170
of criminal trespass,

00:46:41.170 --> 00:46:42.720
resisting arrest,
all kinds of other [bleep],

00:46:42.720 --> 00:46:45.170
some of which was real and some
of which was completely fake.

00:46:47.770 --> 00:46:50.010
STUDENT STRIKER 2: I know
of nurses and doctors

00:46:50.010 --> 00:46:53.680
that pleaded with
the police not to proceed,

00:46:53.680 --> 00:46:54.980
to please let these men alone.

00:46:54.980 --> 00:46:57.830
And they would say, "No, no.
Get away. This is our job."

00:46:58.470 --> 00:47:00.810
STUDENT STRIKER 3: I was
arrested.

00:47:00.810 --> 00:47:02.310
They would not allow me
to see a doctor.

00:47:02.310 --> 00:47:04.240
I had broken ribs.
My face was cut.

00:47:04.240 --> 00:47:08.770
I got hit with a pistol under
the eye and was bleeding there.

00:47:08.770 --> 00:47:10.050
And I wasn’t allowed
to see a doctor

00:47:10.050 --> 00:47:11.430
'til I got out of court,

00:47:11.430 --> 00:47:13.710
which was approximately
10 hours later.

00:47:13.710 --> 00:47:15.580
But I was awarded
a fellowship for next year.

00:47:15.580 --> 00:47:17.580
What the hell does—I'm sorry.

00:47:17.580 --> 00:47:21.190
What does it mean?
I’m going to strike.

00:47:21.190 --> 00:47:23.450
I hope every—I don’t see
how any teacher,

00:47:23.450 --> 00:47:25.800
I don’t see how any student
can attend this school anymore.

00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:30.080
And I was completely liberal
about the whole thing.

00:47:30.080 --> 00:47:33.200
But this bust has
radicalized everybody,

00:47:33.200 --> 00:47:36.720
and me very personally.

00:47:37.690 --> 00:47:38.910
STUDENT: I was
a nonviolent student.

00:47:38.910 --> 00:47:41.170
I was completely passive.
I didn’t care what happened.

00:47:41.170 --> 00:47:43.540
I was completely neutral.
I’m not neutral any longer.

00:47:44.460 --> 00:47:46.220
I’ll occupy buildings tomorrow.

00:47:46.220 --> 00:47:49.250
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Columbia
Revolt, Third World Newsreel.

00:47:49.250 --> 00:47:50.910
Our guests are Ray Brown,

00:47:50.910 --> 00:47:55.590
who was head of the Student
Afro-American Society,

00:47:55.590 --> 00:47:57.330
one of the leaders
of the black students

00:47:57.330 --> 00:47:59.750
who occupied Columbia
University’s Hamilton Hall

00:47:59.750 --> 00:48:01.010
50 years ago.

00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:04.530
We’re also joined by
Nancy Biberman of SDS,

00:48:04.530 --> 00:48:06.140
Students for
a Democratic Society.

00:48:06.140 --> 00:48:07.850
We’re joined, as well,
by Mark Rudd.

00:48:07.850 --> 00:48:09.790
He’s in New Mexico right now,

00:48:09.790 --> 00:48:12.760
chair of the Colombia
University chapter of SDS,

00:48:12.760 --> 00:48:14.460
Students for
a Democratic Society.

00:48:14.460 --> 00:48:16.300
Paul Cronin, editor of the book

00:48:16.300 --> 00:48:18.730
A Time to Stir:
Columbia ’68,

00:48:18.730 --> 00:48:21.760
and has made a 7-hour film
on the Columbia revolt.

00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:24.590
And our very own Democracy
Now!’s Juan González,

00:48:24.590 --> 00:48:28.530
who was one of the leaders
of this protest.

00:48:28.530 --> 00:48:31.820
Now, Ray Brown,
you heard this video clip.

00:48:31.820 --> 00:48:35.240
We’re going a week later,
from April 23rd to April 30th,

00:48:36.030 --> 00:48:39.330
when it was one of
the largest mass arrests, 700.

00:48:39.330 --> 00:48:40.620
You were one of them.
RAYMOND BROWN: That’s true.

00:48:40.620 --> 00:48:41.690
AMY GOODMAN: One of the people
arrested.

00:48:41.690 --> 00:48:43.100
RAYMOND BROWN: Well, we were
clear from the beginning

00:48:43.100 --> 00:48:44.130
that we were going
to be arrested.

00:48:44.130 --> 00:48:46.810
I mean, they made many overtures
to the black students to leave,

00:48:46.810 --> 00:48:49.770
under various vague little
scenarios. And we all said no.

00:48:49.770 --> 00:48:50.630
AMY GOODMAN: Just to the
black students?

00:48:50.630 --> 00:48:52.380
RAYMOND BROWN: Just to the
black—they consciously tried

00:48:52.380 --> 00:48:53.840
to split us off
from the rest of the students.

00:48:53.840 --> 00:48:54.350
AMY GOODMAN: You mean
the university.

00:48:54.350 --> 00:48:55.060
RAYMOND BROWN: The university,

00:48:55.060 --> 00:48:57.130
the police—we had visitors
from the mayor’s office,

00:48:57.130 --> 00:48:58.460
from the president’s office.

00:48:58.460 --> 00:49:01.240
Everybody was trying to separate
us, because we were the fulcrum.

00:49:01.240 --> 00:49:04.290
And it turned out, they couldn’t
lure us out with those promises.

00:49:04.290 --> 00:49:06.040
We knew there were
going to be arrests.

00:49:06.040 --> 00:49:07.610
We took a lot of precautions.

00:49:07.610 --> 00:49:09.460
None of our people
were injured at all,

00:49:09.460 --> 00:49:11.240
because we were very
disciplined about it.

00:49:11.860 --> 00:49:13.900
We had studied
counterinsurgency doctrine.

00:49:13.900 --> 00:49:15.810
We had met with police
officials over the years

00:49:15.810 --> 00:49:17.650
to talk about how they
handle demonstrations.

00:49:17.650 --> 00:49:19.870
We had thought about this,
because the experience

00:49:19.870 --> 00:49:22.190
of black folks and police
and civil disobedience

00:49:22.190 --> 00:49:23.400
is different from others.

00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:25.320
So we were quite
prepared for this.

00:49:25.320 --> 00:49:26.700
None of our people were injured.

00:49:26.700 --> 00:49:28.680
That doesn’t mean
we endorsed the use of force

00:49:28.680 --> 00:49:30.060
against the white students.

00:49:30.060 --> 00:49:33.190
But, in fact, this event
changed police doctrine

00:49:33.190 --> 00:49:34.210
with respect to demonstrations.

00:49:34.210 --> 00:49:35.910
You’ll never have
a demonstration

00:49:35.910 --> 00:49:37.390
that lasts seven days again

00:49:37.390 --> 00:49:39.960
and builds up momentum.
They’ll act much more quickly.

00:49:39.960 --> 00:49:42.160
The rise of campus
police forces,

00:49:42.160 --> 00:49:44.120
that are more "professional,"
in quotes,

00:49:44.120 --> 00:49:45.660
and that have more
sophisticated doctrines

00:49:45.660 --> 00:49:47.230
and relationships
to local police,

00:49:47.230 --> 00:49:49.850
all of that is a direct result
of what happened here

00:49:49.850 --> 00:49:51.380
and in other campuses
around the country,

00:49:51.920 --> 00:49:53.220
including places
like Jackson State,

00:49:53.220 --> 00:49:54.780
where kids were actually killed,

00:49:54.780 --> 00:49:56.690
Orangeburg and elsewhere,
Kent State.

00:49:57.310 --> 00:49:58.690
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, of course,
Mark,

00:49:58.690 --> 00:50:00.220
you might want
to talk about this,

00:50:00.220 --> 00:50:02.240
in terms of the students

00:50:02.240 --> 00:50:03.730
that were occupying
the other buildings,

00:50:03.730 --> 00:50:05.400
both SDS and non-SDS,

00:50:05.400 --> 00:50:08.470
were obviously a much
more amorphous group,

00:50:08.470 --> 00:50:11.070
various different
political tendencies.

00:50:11.070 --> 00:50:15.130
There was a much more sort of
participatory democracy approach

00:50:15.130 --> 00:50:16.560
to making—decision-making,

00:50:16.560 --> 00:50:20.530
which made it very difficult
to actually reach decisions

00:50:20.530 --> 00:50:23.520
and consensus on particular
actions or tactics.

00:50:25.220 --> 00:50:28.280
MARK RUDD: All true. But it
didn’t matter to the cops.

00:50:28.780 --> 00:50:30.210
They didn’t care
whom they attacked,

00:50:30.210 --> 00:50:32.860
as long as—we were
all fair game.

00:50:32.860 --> 00:50:36.310
In fact, I recall that
they even attacked the jocks,

00:50:36.310 --> 00:50:37.490
who were supporting the cops.

00:50:37.490 --> 00:50:41.430
They were cheering the cops on,
and the cops beat them up.

00:50:42.740 --> 00:50:45.700
No, they wanted—they
had a lot of hatred,

00:50:46.420 --> 00:50:50.390
possibly misplaced patriotism,

00:50:51.020 --> 00:50:53.210
possibly class
hatred against us.

00:50:56.060 --> 00:50:57.890
At the 40th reunion
10 years ago,

00:50:58.550 --> 00:51:01.700
one of the city officials
described the cops

00:51:01.700 --> 00:51:04.080
as having sat in their buses

00:51:04.080 --> 00:51:07.280
for days gnawing
on their night sticks.

00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:09.730
Well, they took it
out on everybody.

00:51:09.730 --> 00:51:12.990
And it didn’t matter what
political tendency you were

00:51:12.990 --> 00:51:14.510
or even if you supported them.

00:51:15.420 --> 00:51:16.680
AMY GOODMAN: Nancy Biberman,
you, too,

00:51:16.680 --> 00:51:18.290
were arrested on April 30th.

00:51:19.370 --> 00:51:22.780
NANCY BIBERMAN: So, the arrests,
what I—the arrests itself,

00:51:23.480 --> 00:51:25.410
I would say, we did expect it.

00:51:26.070 --> 00:51:28.700
You know, people were
barricading themselves

00:51:28.700 --> 00:51:30.070
in the buildings,

00:51:30.070 --> 00:51:32.450
you know, come what may.

00:51:32.450 --> 00:51:34.350
And "come what may" really meant

00:51:34.350 --> 00:51:36.330
that we expected that
the police would come in.

00:51:37.810 --> 00:51:41.470
What I found the most
shocking about the arrests

00:51:41.470 --> 00:51:45.150
was the police activity
all over campus.

00:51:45.150 --> 00:51:47.990
I saw the university rabbi,

00:51:47.990 --> 00:51:49.560
who was standing
in the middle of campus,

00:51:49.560 --> 00:51:52.720
being beaten up, bloody.

00:51:52.720 --> 00:51:55.140
And there were so many
bystanders that night,

00:51:55.140 --> 00:51:56.930
people who had nothing
to do with this.

00:51:56.930 --> 00:51:58.770
People who were running
back into their dorms,

00:51:59.720 --> 00:52:02.060
you know, were just
wantonly beaten up.

00:52:02.950 --> 00:52:04.700
So, people called it
then a police riot.

00:52:05.200 --> 00:52:06.500
And I think it was.

00:52:06.500 --> 00:52:07.980
RAYMOND BROWN: I focused a lot
on race, but it’s also—

00:52:07.980 --> 00:52:08.160
AMY GOODMAN: Ray Brown.

00:52:08.160 --> 00:52:09.340
RAYMOND BROWN: —important to see
the class issue.

00:52:09.340 --> 00:52:11.570
When I was—I remember the cop
who was booking me,

00:52:11.570 --> 00:52:12.690
was a white cop.

00:52:12.690 --> 00:52:15.540
And he said, "I sort of
understand why you colored kids

00:52:15.540 --> 00:52:17.280
would be raising heck
over there at the university,

00:52:17.280 --> 00:52:18.460
but I don’t understand
these white kids,

00:52:18.460 --> 00:52:19.770
who have such privileges."

00:52:19.770 --> 00:52:21.190
And I didn’t engage
in a dialogue with him,

00:52:21.190 --> 00:52:23.030
because I was doing "name,
rank and serial number."

00:52:23.030 --> 00:52:25.760
But it’s interesting that
there were a lack of discipline

00:52:25.760 --> 00:52:26.660
and a lack of focus.

00:52:26.660 --> 00:52:29.720
And remember, I think once they
had removed the black students,

00:52:30.410 --> 00:52:32.370
which they thought was
a potential powder keg,

00:52:32.370 --> 00:52:33.890
it was open season.

00:52:33.890 --> 00:52:34.950
PAUL CRONIN: You know,
quite a lot of the—

00:52:34.950 --> 00:52:36.110
AMY GOODMAN: Paul Cronin.

00:52:36.110 --> 00:52:37.800
PAUL CRONIN: Quite a lot
of the students

00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:41.340
I interviewed have talked about
what they considered

00:52:41.340 --> 00:52:43.060
to be the kind of class conflict

00:52:43.060 --> 00:52:44.910
between themselves
and the police.

00:52:44.910 --> 00:52:48.410
But Mark might have said
it more pointedly.

00:52:48.410 --> 00:52:50.450
I think they were
just very bored.

00:52:50.450 --> 00:52:52.460
They had been up there
from day one.

00:52:52.460 --> 00:52:56.620
As one of them put it,
"We were in those police vans.

00:52:56.620 --> 00:52:59.070
I was losing a lot of money
playing poker," he said.

00:52:59.070 --> 00:53:01.040
"And when the time
came to let loose"—

00:53:01.040 --> 00:53:01.600
AMY GOODMAN: You’re
talking the cops.

00:53:01.600 --> 00:53:02.250
PAUL CRONIN: The cops.

00:53:02.250 --> 00:53:05.430
"And when the time came to
let loose, we let loose."

00:53:05.430 --> 00:53:07.770
And as one of them said, and
I suspect he’s probably right,

00:53:08.740 --> 00:53:11.670
"If the students at the
Colombia—on Columbia in 1968

00:53:11.670 --> 00:53:13.800
thought that we were being
excessively brutal with them,

00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:15.820
they don’t know what
police brutality is."

00:53:17.810 --> 00:53:19.370
AMY GOODMAN: The Columbia
Daily Spectator

00:53:19.370 --> 00:53:21.230
reported—this
is two weeks before,

00:53:21.230 --> 00:53:26.040
April 10th, 1968—"Walkout
Disrupts Memorial to King."

00:53:26.040 --> 00:53:28.310
It said Mark Rudd
commandeered the microphone

00:53:28.310 --> 00:53:30.640
from the chaplain and declared
the university was, quote,

00:53:30.640 --> 00:53:33.880
"committing a moral outrage
against Dr. King’s memory.

00:53:33.880 --> 00:53:36.480
We will therefore
protest this obscenity."

00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:39.420
It said Mark Rudd then
walked down from the pulpit

00:53:39.420 --> 00:53:40.960
and was followed
out of the church

00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:43.620
by dozens of people
who were part of the memorial.

00:53:43.620 --> 00:53:45.090
The chaplain, John Cannon,

00:53:45.090 --> 00:53:47.130
refused to condemn
the action, saying, quote,

00:53:47.130 --> 00:53:49.540
"Any student who is moved
by the spirit of the truth ...

00:53:49.540 --> 00:53:52.490
is able to speak
in this chapel any time."

00:53:53.470 --> 00:53:55.150
Do you remember this, Ray Brown?

00:53:55.150 --> 00:53:56.420
RAYMOND BROWN: I remember it.
I wasn’t present.

00:53:56.420 --> 00:53:59.260
Remember, there was
a very strange relationship

00:53:59.260 --> 00:54:01.750
between SAS and SDS.

00:54:01.750 --> 00:54:05.020
We had a wide variety
of attitudes and ideological

00:54:05.020 --> 00:54:07.140
perspectives
within the organization.

00:54:07.140 --> 00:54:09.450
And so, we were—some of us

00:54:09.450 --> 00:54:10.970
perhaps affiliated more freely

00:54:10.970 --> 00:54:12.490
and watched SDS more closely,

00:54:12.490 --> 00:54:14.240
but that was a different path.

00:54:14.240 --> 00:54:16.100
AMY GOODMAN: Mark Rudd,
remember that moment?

00:54:17.720 --> 00:54:19.760
MARK RUDD: It’s hard to forget.

00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:22.670
I remember being
terrified and shaking

00:54:22.670 --> 00:54:24.240
as I held the microphone.

00:54:26.260 --> 00:54:31.220
You know, everyone
was shaken to the core.

00:54:31.220 --> 00:54:34.360
Everyone in the whole country
was shaken of the core

00:54:34.880 --> 00:54:37.580
by the murder of Martin
Luther King.

00:54:37.580 --> 00:54:40.500
And the night
that—after he was murdered,

00:54:40.500 --> 00:54:42.430
Harlem went up in flames.

00:54:42.430 --> 00:54:44.150
I was there.
I went down into Harlem

00:54:44.150 --> 00:54:49.190
from looking out over
the Morningside Heights,

00:54:50.020 --> 00:54:51.840
Morningside Park, looking down.

00:54:51.840 --> 00:54:54.900
I said, "How can—we got to go."
I went down and checked it out.

00:54:54.900 --> 00:54:56.310
Wow!

00:54:56.310 --> 00:55:00.470
The anger, it gripped all of us.

00:55:00.470 --> 00:55:04.760
So, the university had been,
for years, denying a union.

00:55:04.760 --> 00:55:09.340
Martin Luther King
had been—he died

00:55:09.340 --> 00:55:13.120
helping the sanitation workers
in Memphis unionize.

00:55:13.120 --> 00:55:15.010
What kind of hypocrisy was this?

00:55:15.010 --> 00:55:17.590
So, it was kind of like
it had to be done.

00:55:17.590 --> 00:55:22.240
AMY GOODMAN: In fact, you’re all
having a—you’re having a kind of

00:55:22.240 --> 00:55:23.770
teach-in this week at Colombia

00:55:23.770 --> 00:55:25.550
about what happened
50 years ago.

00:55:25.550 --> 00:55:27.790
And there is student
organizing on campus,

00:55:27.790 --> 00:55:28.880
the graduate students.

00:55:28.880 --> 00:55:31.200
This is happening on campuses
across the country.

00:55:31.200 --> 00:55:33.040
Harvard students
just voted to unionize.

00:55:34.250 --> 00:55:36.060
Your event is happening
Friday night.

00:55:36.060 --> 00:55:38.780
Also, I understand, there’s
an occupation going on right now

00:55:38.780 --> 00:55:42.660
around students deeply concerned
about Columbia suicides

00:55:42.660 --> 00:55:45.190
and not feeling that there’s not
enough mental health facilities

00:55:45.190 --> 00:55:46.400
there, Juan?

00:55:46.400 --> 00:55:50.090
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, yeah,
I think it’s almost appropriate

00:55:50.920 --> 00:55:56.710
that the potential to disrupt

00:55:56.710 --> 00:55:59.530
or to somehow create dislocation

00:55:59.530 --> 00:56:01.790
in a commemoration of a strike
by another strike.

00:56:03.090 --> 00:56:05.780
So I think
it’s perfect—it’s poetic justice

00:56:05.780 --> 00:56:06.440
for the university.

00:56:06.440 --> 00:56:08.440
The reality is that
Columbia University,

00:56:08.440 --> 00:56:10.920
like all of these
giant universities,

00:56:10.920 --> 00:56:13.440
they all attempted to reform

00:56:13.440 --> 00:56:15.870
in the aftermath
of the protests of the '60s

00:56:15.870 --> 00:56:17.080
and ’70s,

00:56:17.080 --> 00:56:21.190
but, institutionally, they are
still giant corporations

00:56:21.190 --> 00:56:24.770
that see the need to train
the young people of society

00:56:24.770 --> 00:56:27.580
to fill the jobs that the elite
of the society want,

00:56:27.580 --> 00:56:30.720
so that they regress.
They constantly regress.

00:56:30.720 --> 00:56:31.980
No matter what they say,

00:56:31.980 --> 00:56:36.320
they always regress back
to the same policies of elitism

00:56:36.320 --> 00:56:37.840
toward the communities
around them.

00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:41.080
I can't think of the urban
university in America

00:56:41.080 --> 00:56:43.110
that is not gobbling up the land

00:56:43.110 --> 00:56:44.960
of the residents
right around them

00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:48.850
and attempting to build
more buildings—the edifice

00:56:48.850 --> 00:56:50.400
complex of every university,

00:56:51.130 --> 00:56:53.110
that they all have to build
the newest building.

00:56:53.110 --> 00:56:55.980
So, it’s a continuing
problem in America,

00:56:55.980 --> 00:56:58.290
the role of the universities
vis-à-vis their communities.

00:56:58.290 --> 00:56:58.470
RAYMOND BROWN: I agree.

00:56:58.470 --> 00:56:59.560
AMY GOODMAN: Final comments,
Ray Brown?

00:56:59.560 --> 00:57:00.950
RAYMOND BROWN: Yeah, tonight I’m
going to be at a black student

00:57:00.950 --> 00:57:02.490
event in Hamilton Hall.

00:57:02.490 --> 00:57:03.940
But it’s interesting
that the Times

00:57:03.940 --> 00:57:05.270
ran an in-depth story
the other day,

00:57:05.270 --> 00:57:06.910
and Bollinger, the president,

00:57:06.910 --> 00:57:10.270
made a kind of wan—W-A-N,
not J-U-A-N—comment about,

00:57:10.270 --> 00:57:11.920
"Well, we didn’t like the way
they went about it,"

00:57:11.920 --> 00:57:15.230
as though civil disobedience was
invented at Columbia in 1968.

00:57:15.230 --> 00:57:17.700
And it’s astounding
that the university

00:57:17.700 --> 00:57:19.150
isn’t really engaging.

00:57:19.150 --> 00:57:22.210
It sells itself as a place
for student engagement,

00:57:22.210 --> 00:57:25.270
and yet they’ve ignored '68,
in most respects,

00:57:25.270 --> 00:57:28.530
and don't really seem to have
had a pedagogical experience

00:57:28.530 --> 00:57:29.400
in ’68

00:57:29.400 --> 00:57:31.660
and have learned
institutionally how to relate

00:57:31.660 --> 00:57:33.910
especially to impoverished
communities around them,

00:57:34.790 --> 00:57:36.390
including communities of color.

00:57:36.390 --> 00:57:37.630
AMY GOODMAN: And Nancy Biberman?

00:57:37.630 --> 00:57:40.730
NANCY BIBERMAN: I would say
that the university, you know,

00:57:40.730 --> 00:57:45.320
isn’t really utilizing one of
the collective learnings

00:57:45.320 --> 00:57:47.370
and realizations

00:57:47.370 --> 00:57:49.320
that women had,

00:57:49.320 --> 00:57:54.000
you know, going through
a massive civil unrest

00:57:54.000 --> 00:57:56.500
and feeling somewhat
at a distance

00:57:56.500 --> 00:57:58.570
from leadership
and decision-making.

00:57:58.570 --> 00:58:01.210
And that is what we all failed.

00:58:01.760 --> 00:58:03.800
And some of us tried
to sort of like punctuate,

00:58:03.800 --> 00:58:05.430
you know, puncture through it.

00:58:05.430 --> 00:58:08.550
But I think we came of age.

00:58:09.460 --> 00:58:14.080
We sort of painfully learned our
place in the political movement.

00:58:14.680 --> 00:58:17.110
And, you know, most of us
have been fighting

00:58:17.110 --> 00:58:20.490
ever since to redefine
our roles in society,

00:58:20.490 --> 00:58:22.530
but that was our crucible.

00:58:22.530 --> 00:58:23.890
AMY GOODMAN: Well, we’re going
to have to leave it there,

00:58:23.890 --> 00:58:26.180
but we’ll continue
this conversation, of course,

00:58:26.180 --> 00:58:29.060
and, Juan, you will be
speaking on Friday night.

00:58:29.060 --> 00:58:32.000
Ray, you’re speaking tonight
at Hamilton Hall.

00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:34.990
Raymond Brown, former leader of
Student Afro-American Society,

00:58:34.990 --> 00:58:36.500
one of the leaders
of the black students

00:58:36.500 --> 00:58:38.410
who occupied Columbia
University’s Hamilton Hall.

00:58:38.410 --> 00:58:39.210
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And Nancy will be
speaking with me.

00:58:39.210 --> 00:58:40.940
AMY GOODMAN: Nancy Biberman,
also speaking,

00:58:40.940 --> 00:58:44.000
an organizer today,
was at Barnard College with SDS.

00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:47.410
Mark Rudd, chairman of
the Columbia chapter of SDS.

00:58:47.410 --> 00:58:49.530
And Paul Cronin,
A Time to Stir:

00:58:49.530 --> 00:58:51.510
Columbia ’68,
he’s edited the book,

00:58:51.510 --> 00:58:55.590
worked on this issue for
50 years—rather, for 10 years.

00:58:55.590 --> 00:58:57.750
The event took place
50 years ago.

00:58:58.400 --> 00:58:59.300
PAUL CRONIN: Feels
like 50 years.

00:58:59.300 --> 00:59:00.890
AMY GOODMAN: I’m Amy Goodman,
with Juan González.