WEBVTT 00:00:14.010 --> 00:00:16.860 From New York, this is Democracy Now! 00:00:17.700 --> 00:00:22.280 We’ve lost track of the real security needs we face, 00:00:22.280 --> 00:00:25.030 and we’ve become obsessed with spending more 00:00:25.030 --> 00:00:26.860 and more on military weapons 00:00:26.860 --> 00:00:28.980 that in fact have only a minor role 00:00:28.980 --> 00:00:32.360 to play in the national security of a country. 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:35.640 As President Trump marks the 70th anniversary of NATO 00:00:35.640 --> 00:00:38.850 with a push for members to increase military spending, 00:00:38.850 --> 00:00:42.380 we’ll speak with Joe Cirincione, president of Ploughshares Fund, 00:00:42.380 --> 00:00:44.450 about how Trump’s call will benefit 00:00:44.450 --> 00:00:48.600 U.S. weapons manufacturers like Lockheed Martin and Boeing. 00:00:49.110 --> 00:00:50.860 Then, a group of peace activists 00:00:50.860 --> 00:00:54.260 have entered their second year in pretrial detention 00:00:54.260 --> 00:00:58.830 for entering the Kings Bay Naval Submarine Base in Georgia 00:00:58.830 --> 00:01:01.450 to protest U.S. nuclear weapons. 00:01:01.450 --> 00:01:04.970 We’ll speak to the four co-defendants 00:01:04.970 --> 00:01:06.900 in their first joint interview. 00:01:06.900 --> 00:01:11.230 The Kings Bay Plowshares 7 face up to 25 years in prison. 00:01:12.230 --> 00:01:15.100 We thought it was a good place to call attention to, 00:01:15.100 --> 00:01:18.300 in light of the horrific nature of the Trident system. 00:01:18.300 --> 00:01:19.570 And we were hoping, too, 00:01:19.570 --> 00:01:24.090 that this would somehow show our solidarity with the triplets 00:01:24.090 --> 00:01:25.510 that Martin Luther King spoke of. 00:01:25.510 --> 00:01:27.210 We wanted to make the connections, 00:01:27.780 --> 00:01:29.940 on the anniversary of King’s assassination, 00:01:30.520 --> 00:01:34.350 to militarism, consumerism and racism. 00:01:34.870 --> 00:01:36.680 The Nobel Peace Prize-winning 00:01:36.680 --> 00:01:39.340 South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu, 00:01:39.340 --> 00:01:41.570 Daniel Ellsberg and Noam Chomsky, 00:01:41.570 --> 00:01:44.730 among others, have just backed a global call for charges 00:01:44.730 --> 00:01:47.290 to be dropped against the Kings Bay Plowshares 7. 00:01:47.290 --> 00:01:48.990 All that and more, coming up. 00:01:53.350 --> 00:01:56.320 Welcome to Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, 00:01:56.320 --> 00:01:58.770 The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. 00:01:58.770 --> 00:02:01.510 Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen 00:02:01.510 --> 00:02:02.710 is stepping down. 00:02:02.710 --> 00:02:04.770 The news was announced by President Trump 00:02:04.770 --> 00:02:06.680 on Twitter Sunday evening. 00:02:06.680 --> 00:02:09.780 CNN is reporting Trump ousted Nielsen following months 00:02:09.780 --> 00:02:12.020 of reported tensions between the two. 00:02:12.020 --> 00:02:14.220 Nielsen oversaw Trump’s "zero tolerance" 00:02:14.220 --> 00:02:17.530 family separation policy and came under fire by Democrats 00:02:17.530 --> 00:02:20.030 for lying to Congress about the policy, 00:02:20.030 --> 00:02:22.410 as well as for withholding information on children 00:02:22.410 --> 00:02:24.320 who died in U.S. custody. 00:02:24.320 --> 00:02:26.690 In June of last year, Nielsen tweeted, 00:02:26.690 --> 00:02:28.280 "We do not have a policy 00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:31.260 of separating families at the border. Period." 00:02:32.510 --> 00:02:35.400 In a statement, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said, 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:38.760 "It is deeply alarming that the Trump Administration official 00:02:38.760 --> 00:02:42.070 who put children in cages is reportedly resigning 00:02:42.070 --> 00:02:44.230 because she is not extreme enough 00:02:44.230 --> 00:02:46.080 for the White House’s liking." 00:02:47.320 --> 00:02:50.370 Kevin McAleenan, the current U.S. Customs 00:02:50.370 --> 00:02:51.940 and Border Protection commissioner, 00:02:51.940 --> 00:02:54.810 will become the acting head of Homeland Security. 00:02:54.810 --> 00:02:57.680 On Friday, Trump withdrew nominee Ronald Vitiello 00:02:57.680 --> 00:03:00.080 to head Immigration and Customs Enforcement, 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:03.430 indicating he wasn’t "tough" enough for the role. 00:03:03.430 --> 00:03:05.550 Meanwhile, immigration and civil rights groups 00:03:05.550 --> 00:03:09.440 are urging Fortune 500 companies not to hire former 00:03:09.440 --> 00:03:12.600 Trump administration officials who were involved 00:03:12.600 --> 00:03:17.710 in separating migrant families. A letter signed by 41 groups, 00:03:17.710 --> 00:03:20.150 including the Southern Poverty Law Center, reads, 00:03:20.150 --> 00:03:22.370 "They should not be allowed to seek refuge 00:03:22.370 --> 00:03:24.780 in your boardrooms or corner offices. 00:03:24.780 --> 00:03:27.550 Allowing them to step off of the revolving door 00:03:27.550 --> 00:03:30.440 and into your welcoming arms should be a non starter." 00:03:31.810 --> 00:03:34.740 The government said Friday it could take as long 00:03:34.740 --> 00:03:37.260 as two years to reunite children 00:03:37.260 --> 00:03:39.480 who were separated from their families at the southern border 00:03:39.480 --> 00:03:42.120 as part of Trump’s family separation policy. 00:03:42.120 --> 00:03:44.300 The Trump administration admitted earlier this year 00:03:44.300 --> 00:03:45.940 they failed to keep proper records 00:03:45.940 --> 00:03:47.680 on which children in its care 00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:49.780 had been separated from their parents. 00:03:49.780 --> 00:03:52.290 Last month, the judge overseeing a lawsuit on behalf 00:03:52.290 --> 00:03:55.930 of separated families expanded the case to include any children 00:03:55.930 --> 00:04:00.030 who were separated from their parents as early as July 2017, 00:04:00.030 --> 00:04:04.920 nearly a year before the policy officially took effect, 00:04:04.920 --> 00:04:07.740 potentially adding thousands of children 00:04:07.740 --> 00:04:10.980 to the 2,700 cases previously identified. 00:04:10.980 --> 00:04:13.070 The ACLU, which brought the class-action suit 00:04:13.070 --> 00:04:14.290 against the government, 00:04:14.290 --> 00:04:17.530 said a two-year wait could be "devastating" 00:04:17.530 --> 00:04:19.410 and that the group would challenge 00:04:19.410 --> 00:04:21.610 the administration’s plan in court. 00:04:22.470 --> 00:04:24.040 In New York, police arrested 00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:26.270 and charged a man Friday for threatening to assault 00:04:26.270 --> 00:04:29.600 and murder Minnesota Congressmember Ilhan Omar. 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:32.190 Fifty-five-year old Patrick Carlineo Jr., 00:04:32.190 --> 00:04:35.150 a vocal Trump supporter who told investigators 00:04:35.150 --> 00:04:36.380 he "loves the president" 00:04:36.380 --> 00:04:38.760 and "hates radical Muslims in our government," 00:04:38.760 --> 00:04:41.360 called Omar’s office 00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:43.830 and delivered an expletive-laden rant, 00:04:43.830 --> 00:04:46.260 saying, "Do you work for the Muslim Brotherhood? 00:04:46.260 --> 00:04:49.490 Why are you working for her, she’s a f**ing terrorist? 00:04:49.490 --> 00:04:51.940 I’ll put a bullet in her f**ing skull." 00:04:54.380 --> 00:04:57.550 Congressmember Omar is one of the first two Muslim women 00:04:57.550 --> 00:04:59.520 elected to Congress last November 00:04:59.520 --> 00:05:02.220 and is the only congressmember to wear a hijab. 00:05:02.220 --> 00:05:04.360 In a statement, the Council on American-Islamic 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:07.400 Relations said, "The political environment, 00:05:07.400 --> 00:05:09.870 led by an Islamophobe in the White House, 00:05:09.870 --> 00:05:11.620 has normalized hate speech 00:05:11.620 --> 00:05:14.090 and emboldened bigots in their actions. 00:05:14.090 --> 00:05:17.530 The rising threat of Islamophobia and white supremacy 00:05:17.530 --> 00:05:19.420 must be taken seriously." 00:05:20.930 --> 00:05:22.130 One day after the arrest, 00:05:22.130 --> 00:05:24.500 President Trump mocked Congressmember Omar 00:05:24.500 --> 00:05:25.830 during a Saturday address 00:05:25.830 --> 00:05:29.110 before the Republican Jewish Coalition in Las Vegas. 00:05:29.110 --> 00:05:33.420 Trump pretended to thank Omar, before quickly adding, 00:05:33.420 --> 00:05:36.480 "Oh, I forgot. She doesn’t like Israel. I’m so sorry." 00:05:37.060 --> 00:05:39.910 Trump’s comments refer to recent accusations 00:05:39.910 --> 00:05:42.120 of anti-Semitism against the congressmember, 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:44.180 charges she and her supporters vehemently reject, 00:05:44.180 --> 00:05:45.520 and largely fueled by conservatives 00:05:45.520 --> 00:05:47.160 and pro-Israeli groups and lawmakers. 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:48.750 Trump also attacked migrants 00:05:48.750 --> 00:05:50.790 seeking asylum in the United States. 00:05:50.790 --> 00:05:52.050 President Donald Trump: 00:05:52.050 --> 00:05:54.020 "Congress must end catch and release 00:05:54.020 --> 00:05:57.250 so that illegal border crossers can be quickly 00:05:57.250 --> 00:05:59.820 and safely returned to their home. 00:05:59.820 --> 00:06:02.930 Get out! Sorry. Get out! Sorry. Can’t handle it. 00:06:05.540 --> 00:06:08.370 And I told my people yesterday, 'Our country's full.’ 00:06:08.370 --> 00:06:10.180 We’re full. Our system’s full. 00:06:10.180 --> 00:06:12.170 Our country’s full. Can’t come in. 00:06:12.170 --> 00:06:14.770 Our country is full. What can you do? 00:06:14.770 --> 00:06:17.119 We can’t handle any more. Our country is full." 00:06:17.670 --> 00:06:20.000 During his speech, Trump also boasted 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:22.060 of the United States’ recent recognition 00:06:22.060 --> 00:06:25.000 of the occupied Golan Heights as sovereign Israeli 00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:27.520 territory, and his decision to move the U.S. 00:06:27.520 --> 00:06:29.730 Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. 00:06:29.730 --> 00:06:32.640 Activists from the progressive Jewish, anti-occupation group 00:06:32.640 --> 00:06:35.870 If Not Now disrupted Trump’s speech. 00:06:35.870 --> 00:06:37.700 Ten members of the group chanted, 00:06:37.700 --> 00:06:42.160 "Jews are here to say the occupation is a plague. 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:45.420 Jews are here to say white nationalism is a plague." 00:06:47.950 --> 00:06:50.660 A Mexican man died last week while in the custody 00:06:50.660 --> 00:06:52.540 of Immigration and Customs Enforcement 00:06:52.540 --> 00:06:55.300 in Florence, Arizona, according to officials. 00:06:55.300 --> 00:06:56.680 Fifty-four-year-old Abel 00:06:56.680 --> 00:06:59.460 Reyes-Clemente was found unconscious 00:06:59.460 --> 00:07:01.400 and not breathing after being transferred 00:07:01.400 --> 00:07:03.100 from a Maricopa County jail 00:07:03.620 --> 00:07:06.400 to an ICE processing center in February. 00:07:06.400 --> 00:07:08.890 Reyes-Clemente was in jail on a misdemeanor conviction. 00:07:08.890 --> 00:07:11.820 He was put under observation after showing flu-like symptoms 00:07:11.820 --> 00:07:13.520 and died just two days later. 00:07:15.700 --> 00:07:19.490 In Yemen, local authorities reported at least 13 civilians, 00:07:19.490 --> 00:07:21.190 including at least seven children, 00:07:21.190 --> 00:07:23.700 were killed after an air raid on a warehouse 00:07:23.700 --> 00:07:25.690 in the capital Sana’a on Sunday. 00:07:25.690 --> 00:07:27.840 Another 100 were reportedly injured. 00:07:27.840 --> 00:07:29.750 Houthi rebels say the Saudi-led 00:07:29.750 --> 00:07:32.180 airstrikes targeted a weapons storage site 00:07:32.180 --> 00:07:34.840 that was located close to homes and a school. 00:07:34.840 --> 00:07:36.830 The U.S.-backed, Saudi-led war in Yemen 00:07:36.830 --> 00:07:38.690 has killed thousands of civilians 00:07:38.690 --> 00:07:41.550 and sparked the world’s worst humanitarian crisis, 00:07:41.550 --> 00:07:43.990 with 10 million people facing famine. 00:07:44.750 --> 00:07:46.130 Last week, congressmembers in the House 00:07:46.130 --> 00:07:47.690 joined their colleagues in the Senate 00:07:47.690 --> 00:07:49.380 to back a War Powers Resolution 00:07:49.380 --> 00:07:51.860 calling for an end to U.S. support for the war. 00:07:51.860 --> 00:07:54.600 President Trump is expected to veto the resolution. 00:07:55.420 --> 00:07:58.560 On Saturday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:01.090 said he plans to annex Israeli settlements 00:08:01.090 --> 00:08:03.170 in the occupied West Bank, if re-elected. 00:08:04.080 --> 00:08:05.980 He made the comments on Israeli television 00:08:05.980 --> 00:08:08.830 just days before Tuesday’s parliamentary elections, 00:08:08.830 --> 00:08:10.520 pitting the embattled prime minister 00:08:10.520 --> 00:08:13.200 against his former army chief of staff, Benny Gantz. 00:08:13.730 --> 00:08:16.210 Palestinian officials and Palestinian residents 00:08:16.210 --> 00:08:18.040 of the West Bank condemned the remarks, 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:20.860 which many say were made as an appeal to right-wing voters. 00:08:20.860 --> 00:08:23.380 This is activist Mohammed Zughayer 00:08:23.380 --> 00:08:25.429 from the group Youth Against Settlements. 00:08:26.110 --> 00:08:29.000 Mohammed Zughayer: "It is clear for the world 00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:31.840 that there is no real partner for peace that Mahmoud Abbas 00:08:31.840 --> 00:08:34.300 is calling for through negotiations. 00:08:34.300 --> 00:08:36.560 The Israeli occupation and Netanyahu 00:08:36.560 --> 00:08:38.670 and his coalition with the extreme right 00:08:38.670 --> 00:08:40.880 want to form a big government for settlers 00:08:40.880 --> 00:08:43.180 that will implement the plan of the century 00:08:43.180 --> 00:08:45.770 that is led by the American President Donald Trump." 00:08:45.770 --> 00:08:47.760 Israeli settlements in the Occupied West Bank 00:08:47.760 --> 00:08:50.160 are considered illegal under international law. 00:08:50.770 --> 00:08:52.280 In Libya, government officials say 00:08:52.280 --> 00:08:54.240 21 people were killed in recent days 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:56.490 as fighting intensified near the capital Tripoli. 00:08:56.490 --> 00:08:58.300 Last week, a renegade army commander 00:08:58.300 --> 00:09:00.680 of the Benghazi-based Libyan National Army 00:09:00.680 --> 00:09:02.780 ordered his forces to advance on the capital 00:09:02.780 --> 00:09:04.500 in an attempt to topple the country’s 00:09:04.500 --> 00:09:05.730 U.N.-backed government, 00:09:05.730 --> 00:09:07.860 the Government of National Accord, or GNA. 00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:13.030 General Haftar said the LNA carried out airstrikes on Sunday 00:09:13.030 --> 00:09:16.380 and that his forces had seized an airport near the capital. 00:09:16.380 --> 00:09:18.090 GNA’s armed forces announced 00:09:18.090 --> 00:09:21.210 a counteroffensive to defend Tripoli. 00:09:21.210 --> 00:09:23.280 The U.S. has pulled some of its troops from Libya, 00:09:23.280 --> 00:09:26.140 and the United Nations is warning that thousands 00:09:26.140 --> 00:09:30.220 of civilians would be displaced from the escalation in violence, 00:09:30.220 --> 00:09:32.470 while others would be trapped amid the fighting 00:09:32.470 --> 00:09:35.160 and cut off from emergency services. 00:09:35.890 --> 00:09:37.450 In Sudan, protesters say 00:09:37.450 --> 00:09:39.600 security forces unleashed tear gas 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:42.810 and stun grenades on crowds who have been demonstrating 00:09:42.810 --> 00:09:44.920 outside the military headquarters in the capital, 00:09:44.920 --> 00:09:46.810 Khartoum—which is also the residence 00:09:46.810 --> 00:09:48.710 of President Omar al-Bashir. 00:09:48.710 --> 00:09:51.080 Tens of thousands have taken to the streets 00:09:51.080 --> 00:09:54.000 since Saturday in one of the largest anti-government protests 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:55.790 since the popular uprising 00:09:55.790 --> 00:09:59.100 demanding al-Bashir’s resignation began in December. 00:09:59.100 --> 00:10:01.340 At least five people were reportedly killed 00:10:01.340 --> 00:10:03.500 across the country over the weekend, 00:10:03.500 --> 00:10:06.240 and at least 50 people have been killed since December, 00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:07.910 according to rights groups. 00:10:07.910 --> 00:10:10.040 The government has also been accused 00:10:10.040 --> 00:10:13.110 of jailing hundreds of activists and critics of the president, 00:10:13.110 --> 00:10:14.830 and of shutting down press outlets 00:10:14.830 --> 00:10:18.040 and barring foreign reporters from covering the protests. 00:10:18.040 --> 00:10:20.770 Reports on the ground say some soldiers sided 00:10:20.770 --> 00:10:22.490 with protesters this weekend, 00:10:22.490 --> 00:10:25.010 signaling a possible loss of military support 00:10:25.010 --> 00:10:26.890 for the embattled al-Bashir, 00:10:26.890 --> 00:10:28.750 who has been in power for three decades. 00:10:28.750 --> 00:10:31.230 His current term is due to end in 2020. 00:10:32.860 --> 00:10:35.220 The Trump administration designated 00:10:35.220 --> 00:10:37.360 Iran’s elite Revolutionary Guard 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:39.330 as a terrorist organization Monday. 00:10:40.800 --> 00:10:43.170 The move is the latest in the White House’s efforts 00:10:43.170 --> 00:10:45.030 to isolate Iran after the U.S. 00:10:45.030 --> 00:10:47.600 withdrew from the landmark Iran nuclear deal 00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:49.700 and reimposed sanctions on the country last year 00:10:49.700 --> 00:10:52.140 despite widespread international condemnation. 00:10:52.700 --> 00:10:55.020 Iranian officials have warned the designation 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:57.590 would destabilize the region 00:10:57.590 --> 00:11:00.220 and draw a retaliatory response from Iran, 00:11:00.220 --> 00:11:03.950 which could designate the U.S. military as a terrorist group. 00:11:04.950 --> 00:11:08.140 In Washington state, Motel 6 is settling a lawsuit 00:11:08.140 --> 00:11:11.740 for $12 million that accused the budget hotel chain 00:11:11.740 --> 00:11:14.510 of violating anti-discrimination and privacy laws 00:11:14.510 --> 00:11:17.040 by handing over personal information 00:11:17.040 --> 00:11:19.060 of hotel guests to ICE. 00:11:19.060 --> 00:11:21.450 Hotel managers gave personal data, 00:11:21.450 --> 00:11:25.530 including names, dates of birth and driver’s license numbers, 00:11:25.530 --> 00:11:29.060 of thousands of guests to immigration officers 00:11:29.060 --> 00:11:31.850 between 2015 and 2017, 00:11:31.850 --> 00:11:35.440 according to Attorney General Bob Ferguson. 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:38.280 Immigration officials were able to scrutinize the lists 00:11:38.280 --> 00:11:40.910 for "Latino-sounding names," 00:11:40.910 --> 00:11:44.990 leading to multiple arrests, detentions and deportations. 00:11:45.610 --> 00:11:48.050 In Massachusetts, the president of Hampshire College, 00:11:48.050 --> 00:11:50.100 Miriam Nelson, stepped down Friday, 00:11:50.100 --> 00:11:51.760 after months of student protests 00:11:51.760 --> 00:11:54.460 against cuts in the school’s staff and budget. 00:11:54.460 --> 00:11:56.890 In January, Nelson announced Hampshire College 00:11:56.890 --> 00:11:59.000 would not admit a full class in the fall, 00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:00.840 as well as a plan to merge the school 00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:03.800 with a "strategic partner," leading many to fear the school 00:12:03.800 --> 00:12:06.280 may either close or lose its independence. 00:12:06.280 --> 00:12:09.070 Student organizers from the group Hamp Rise 00:12:09.070 --> 00:12:10.860 Up have been calling on Nelson, 00:12:10.860 --> 00:12:12.760 as well as other officials and board members, 00:12:12.760 --> 00:12:16.460 to step down following a vote of no confidence from students. 00:12:16.460 --> 00:12:19.610 Fundraising campaigns have been set up to keep Hampshire College 00:12:19.610 --> 00:12:22.070 running in the face of losses from tuition 00:12:22.070 --> 00:12:23.770 for the coming school year. 00:12:24.400 --> 00:12:27.380 American Airlines announced it is extending a cancellation 00:12:27.380 --> 00:12:29.840 on some of its flights into early June 00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:33.280 due to the continued removal of the Boeing 737 00:12:33.280 --> 00:12:34.770 MAX from service. 00:12:34.770 --> 00:12:37.390 The cancellations will affect 90 flights a day. 00:12:37.390 --> 00:12:39.340 Southwest Airlines, which also flies 00:12:39.340 --> 00:12:41.670 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, 00:12:41.670 --> 00:12:43.600 took similar measures last month. 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:46.310 The ongoing disruption in air travel comes as 00:12:46.310 --> 00:12:49.770 Boeing apologized last week for the fatal crashes 00:12:49.770 --> 00:12:51.850 of two MAX 8 aircraft 00:12:51.850 --> 00:12:56.070 in recent months—last month’s Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 00:12:56.070 --> 00:12:58.380 and Indonesia’s Lion Air Flight 610 00:12:58.380 --> 00:13:04.000 in October—which together killed nearly 350 people. 00:13:05.500 --> 00:13:08.020 The first American wrongful death lawsuit 00:13:08.020 --> 00:13:10.870 has been brought, and faulty software 00:13:10.870 --> 00:13:14.580 is believed to be have played a role in both crashes. 00:13:15.420 --> 00:13:17.860 And in New York City, activists from over 30 groups 00:13:17.860 --> 00:13:19.240 took over the prestigious Whitney 00:13:19.240 --> 00:13:21.900 Museum Friday to call for the removal of Vice 00:13:21.900 --> 00:13:25.710 Chair Warren Kanders, CEO of tear gas manufacturer 00:13:25.710 --> 00:13:28.160 Safariland, from the museum’s board. 00:13:28.160 --> 00:13:31.160 The protest launched a 9-week series of actions organized 00:13:31.160 --> 00:13:33.630 by Decolonize This Place. Democracy Now! 00:13:33.630 --> 00:13:35.950 spoke to one of the activists at Friday’s action. 00:13:35.950 --> 00:13:38.080 Marz Saffore: "My name is Marz Saffore, 00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:41.540 and I’m with MTL+ Collective and Decolonize This Place. 00:13:41.540 --> 00:13:43.720 Today we’re here for week three of the 'Nine 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:45.950 Weeks of Art and Action' at the Whitney 00:13:45.950 --> 00:13:49.630 Museum, demanding the removal of Vice Chairman Warren Kanders. 00:13:49.630 --> 00:13:52.310 Warren Kanders is the CEO of Safariland, 00:13:52.310 --> 00:13:54.140 an international weapons manufacturer 00:13:54.140 --> 00:13:57.910 who manufactured the tear gas used against migrant families 00:13:57.910 --> 00:14:00.700 at the border, water protectors in Standing Rock, 00:14:00.700 --> 00:14:03.200 black folks in Ferguson, Palestine, 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:05.660 Oakland, Turkey, Egypt, and the list goes on." 00:14:06.250 --> 00:14:08.470 And those are some of the headlines this is Democracy 00:14:08.470 --> 00:14:11.530 Now, Democracynow.org, the War and Peace Report. 00:14:11.530 --> 00:14:12.750 I’m Amy Goodman. 00:14:12.750 --> 00:14:14.380 AMY GOODMAN: We turn now to continue our look 00:14:14.380 --> 00:14:16.640 at the 70th anniversary of the founding of NATO, 00:14:16.640 --> 00:14:18.680 the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. 00:14:18.680 --> 00:14:21.790 The alliance was formed April 4th, 1949. 00:14:21.790 --> 00:14:23.610 Commemorations, as well as protests, 00:14:23.610 --> 00:14:25.710 were held last are to mark the anniversary. 00:14:25.710 --> 00:14:28.340 President Trump used the anniversary to push for 00:14:28.340 --> 00:14:31.180 NATO countries to increase military spending. 00:14:31.180 --> 00:14:33.460 During an Oval Office meeting Tuesday 00:14:33.460 --> 00:14:35.170 with NATO Secretary General Jens 00:14:35.170 --> 00:14:38.290 Stoltenberg, President Trump demanded Germany and other 00:14:38.290 --> 00:14:40.200 NATO countries increase their military 00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:42.540 spending from 2 to 4% of GDP. 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:44.750 PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We have worked together 00:14:44.750 --> 00:14:46.990 on getting some of our allies 00:14:46.990 --> 00:14:51.080 to pay their fair share. It’s called burden sharing. 00:14:51.080 --> 00:14:54.940 And as you know, when I came, it wasn’t so good, 00:14:54.940 --> 00:14:57.140 and now it’s—they’re catching up. 00:14:57.140 --> 00:15:03.030 We have seven of the 28 countries are currently current, 00:15:03.790 --> 00:15:05.710 and the rest are trying to catch up, 00:15:05.710 --> 00:15:06.950 and they will catch up. 00:15:06.950 --> 00:15:08.930 And some of them have no problems, 00:15:08.930 --> 00:15:11.710 because they haven’t been paying and they’re very rich. 00:15:11.710 --> 00:15:14.290 But we’re looking at the 2% of GDP level. 00:15:15.100 --> 00:15:16.430 And at some point, 00:15:16.430 --> 00:15:18.200 I think it’s going to have to go higher than that. 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:20.130 I think probably it should be higher. 00:15:20.130 --> 00:15:21.510 AMY GOODMAN: The push for more military 00:15:21.510 --> 00:15:24.380 spending could benefit U.S. weapons manufacturers, 00:15:24.380 --> 00:15:27.400 including Boeing, Lockheed Martin and others. 00:15:27.400 --> 00:15:30.210 This comes as Acting Pentagon Chief Patrick Shanahan 00:15:30.210 --> 00:15:32.130 is under investigation for improperly 00:15:32.130 --> 00:15:33.960 advocating on behalf of Boeing, 00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:36.460 where he worked for more than 30 years. 00:15:36.460 --> 00:15:38.560 For more on this, we continue our conversation 00:15:38.560 --> 00:15:41.110 with Joe Cirincione, who I spoke to on Friday, 00:15:41.110 --> 00:15:42.600 the president of Ploughshares Fund, 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:46.190 a global security foundation, author of Nuclear Nightmares: 00:15:46.190 --> 00:15:48.940 Securing the World Before It Is Too Late and Bomb 00:15:48.940 --> 00:15:51.980 Scare: The History and Future of Nuclear Weapons. 00:15:51.980 --> 00:15:54.460 I began by asking him to respond to President 00:15:54.460 --> 00:15:57.320 Trump’s demands that NATO countries spend 00:15:57.320 --> 00:16:01.310 even more on military weapons rather than education 00:16:01.310 --> 00:16:03.540 and healthcare—what some might say 00:16:03.540 --> 00:16:06.440 are the true markers of national security in a country. 00:16:07.290 --> 00:16:09.380 JOE CIRINCIONE: We’re cursed in this discussion 00:16:09.380 --> 00:16:12.070 by a very narrow definition of national security. 00:16:12.070 --> 00:16:14.680 We’ve all come to accept that national security 00:16:14.680 --> 00:16:17.010 equals military forces and weapons, 00:16:17.010 --> 00:16:18.670 when, in fact, as you point out, 00:16:18.670 --> 00:16:20.950 a national security is more often determined 00:16:20.950 --> 00:16:24.500 by the health and welfare of its citizenry, 00:16:24.500 --> 00:16:26.640 the system of justice, 00:16:26.640 --> 00:16:29.920 whether citizens feel that they’re engaged in the country 00:16:29.920 --> 00:16:32.720 and have a role in the governance of that country. 00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:33.990 And spending on military 00:16:33.990 --> 00:16:36.340 is just one small part of national security, 00:16:36.340 --> 00:16:39.590 but this has become the test of whether a country 00:16:39.590 --> 00:16:42.510 is carrying its fair burden. 00:16:42.510 --> 00:16:45.100 So, burden sharing with NATO countries 00:16:45.100 --> 00:16:47.460 has been an issue in this town for decades. 00:16:47.460 --> 00:16:50.370 Republicans and Democrats have both harped on it, 00:16:50.370 --> 00:16:52.610 because it’s kind of an easy way for them to show 00:16:52.610 --> 00:16:54.500 that they’re tough, that they’re strong. 00:16:54.500 --> 00:16:57.120 But let’s put this in perspective. 00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:59.210 What are we talking about here? 00:16:59.210 --> 00:17:01.460 The world as a whole, every year, 00:17:01.460 --> 00:17:06.420 spends about $1.7 trillion on military weapons and forces. 00:17:06.420 --> 00:17:09.680 One-point-seven. The United States and our NATO 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:13.330 allies account for $1 trillion of that. 00:17:13.330 --> 00:17:16.490 So more than half of all global spending is spent 00:17:16.490 --> 00:17:18.660 by the United States and our NATO allies. 00:17:18.660 --> 00:17:24.270 The NATO allies alone account for about $240 billion. 00:17:24.270 --> 00:17:26.090 That’s what they spend. 00:17:26.090 --> 00:17:28.300 What are they spending it to guard against? 00:17:28.300 --> 00:17:31.050 Well, if you think that Russia is the main threat, 00:17:31.050 --> 00:17:34.510 Russia only spends about $66 billion every year on defense. 00:17:34.510 --> 00:17:39.720 In fact, its spending dropped by 20% between 2016 and 2017, 00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:41.450 the last year we have figures for. 00:17:41.450 --> 00:17:43.070 So, its spending is going down. 00:17:43.070 --> 00:17:46.970 So why this demand for the NATO allies to spend more, 00:17:46.970 --> 00:17:49.630 when they’re beset with all kinds of problems 00:17:49.630 --> 00:17:51.630 that have nothing to do with military, 00:17:51.630 --> 00:17:55.310 all kinds of internal, economic, immigration problems, 00:17:55.310 --> 00:17:58.370 social justice problems, health and welfare problems? 00:17:58.370 --> 00:18:01.490 Why? Well, one, it’s simple. 00:18:01.490 --> 00:18:06.630 The 2% solution, it’s a simple mantra that is repeated. 00:18:06.630 --> 00:18:10.540 And, two, this directly benefits military contractors. 00:18:10.540 --> 00:18:12.430 Who makes the money off of this? 00:18:12.430 --> 00:18:14.550 Well, most of the money that we spend 00:18:14.550 --> 00:18:16.990 in this country on defense, and that the Europeans spend, 00:18:16.990 --> 00:18:20.210 go to a relative handful of defense contractors: 00:18:20.210 --> 00:18:24.980 Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, etc. 00:18:24.980 --> 00:18:28.300 And they lobby incessantly for these kind of increases, 00:18:28.300 --> 00:18:31.020 in Washington, in NATO headquarters, 00:18:31.020 --> 00:18:32.780 in the capitals of Europe. 00:18:32.780 --> 00:18:36.230 And now we have the absurd situation 00:18:36.230 --> 00:18:38.330 where a 31-year veteran of Boeing, 00:18:38.330 --> 00:18:40.680 a corporate executive, Patrick Shanahan, 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:43.070 is the acting secretary of defense. 00:18:43.070 --> 00:18:45.380 I mean, this is such an obvious conflict of interest, 00:18:45.380 --> 00:18:46.920 you would think that people would say, 00:18:46.920 --> 00:18:48.630 "Well, no, you can’t do that." 00:18:48.630 --> 00:18:51.110 But, of course, this is Trump’s Washington, 00:18:51.110 --> 00:18:54.480 where oil industry executives are running the EPA, 00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:58.570 and pharmaceutical companies run the FDA, 00:18:58.570 --> 00:19:01.340 so it’s become accepted. But it’s not right. 00:19:01.340 --> 00:19:03.810 It’s not fair. And it distorts us. 00:19:03.810 --> 00:19:06.190 And it’s dangerous. Just one last fact: 00:19:06.190 --> 00:19:07.820 If you take Trump at his word 00:19:07.820 --> 00:19:10.050 that he wants them to contribute 4%, 00:19:11.190 --> 00:19:13.700 well, that means you want Europe to double their defense 00:19:13.700 --> 00:19:18.240 spending, from about $230 billion to $460 billion. 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:23.170 For what? To do what? What does this go towards? 00:19:23.170 --> 00:19:27.740 We’ve lost track of the real security needs we face, 00:19:27.740 --> 00:19:29.260 and we’ve become obsessed 00:19:29.260 --> 00:19:32.330 with spending more and more on military weapons 00:19:32.330 --> 00:19:34.460 that in fact have only a minor role 00:19:34.460 --> 00:19:37.820 to play in the national security of a country. 00:19:38.980 --> 00:19:40.460 AMY GOODMAN: I want to go back to Jens 00:19:40.460 --> 00:19:45.730 Stoltenberg, the NATO secretary general. 00:19:46.540 --> 00:19:48.360 How unusual is it, Joe, 00:19:48.360 --> 00:19:51.760 that he addressed a joint session of Congress? 00:19:51.760 --> 00:19:55.350 Let’s play the clip of this moment. 00:19:56.190 --> 00:19:57.480 SECRETARY GENERAL JENS STOLTENBERG: NATO allies 00:19:57.480 --> 00:19:59.380 must spend more on defense. 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:03.030 This has been the clear message from President Trump. 00:20:03.610 --> 00:20:06.260 And this message is having a real impact. 00:20:14.320 --> 00:20:17.240 Of the years of reducing defense budgets, 00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:18.940 all allies have stopped the cuts, 00:20:20.050 --> 00:20:22.700 and all allies have increased their defense spending. 00:20:23.570 --> 00:20:25.360 AMY GOODMAN: "All allies have increased 00:20:25.360 --> 00:20:27.550 their defense spending," Jens Stoltenberg, 00:20:27.550 --> 00:20:30.720 after meeting with President Trump in the White House, 00:20:31.910 --> 00:20:35.170 boasting of Trump’s influence. 00:20:35.170 --> 00:20:36.850 I mean, think back, Joe Cirincione, 00:20:36.850 --> 00:20:39.450 to the beginning of the Trump term, 00:20:40.070 --> 00:20:43.610 when he was slamming NATO, and now claiming credit for them 00:20:43.610 --> 00:20:46.920 all pouring money into weapons purchases. 00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:48.180 JOE CIRINCIONE: Yeah. 00:20:48.180 --> 00:20:51.390 AMY GOODMAN: Has NATO caved to President Trump? 00:20:53.820 --> 00:20:56.310 JOE CIRINCIONE: Well, they certainly have, I guess, 00:20:56.310 --> 00:20:58.180 caved rhetorically. 00:20:58.180 --> 00:21:01.240 The actual figures are not quite as rosy 00:21:02.630 --> 00:21:05.450 as the secretary general states. For example, 00:21:05.450 --> 00:21:07.900 Germany has slightly increased its defense spending, 00:21:07.900 --> 00:21:10.300 but it’s not going to come anywhere close to 2%. 00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:16.480 So it’s technically true, but it’s—what he’s basically doing 00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:21.050 is trying to come and repair the rift 00:21:21.050 --> 00:21:23.700 in the NATO alliance that President Trump has caused. 00:21:23.700 --> 00:21:26.940 This is not a European problem; this is an American problem. 00:21:26.940 --> 00:21:30.070 The president of the United States is causing this division, 00:21:30.070 --> 00:21:34.220 almost unprecedented in the 70 of NATO history. 00:21:34.220 --> 00:21:36.380 So this is why he wanted to come. 00:21:36.380 --> 00:21:38.520 And it is—it’s very—I don’t think a secretary general 00:21:38.520 --> 00:21:41.740 has ever addressed a joint session of Congress. 00:21:41.740 --> 00:21:44.440 And he’s coming because the European allies are worried 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:46.400 about the health of the alliance, 00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:48.840 not primarily because of defense spending, 00:21:48.840 --> 00:21:51.980 but because—about the attitudes and policies and temperament 00:21:51.980 --> 00:21:53.540 of the president of the United States. 00:21:53.540 --> 00:21:57.090 So he’s going directly to Congress to solidify these ties. 00:21:57.090 --> 00:22:00.420 And in the course of that, he’s trying to appease 00:22:00.420 --> 00:22:02.770 the president by saying, "Yes, Mr. President, 00:22:02.770 --> 00:22:06.360 your demand for increased spending is happening." 00:22:06.360 --> 00:22:09.650 He’s stroking Trump, the way, unfortunately, 00:22:09.650 --> 00:22:11.030 our allies have come to believe 00:22:11.030 --> 00:22:14.930 they have to do in order to maintain good ties. 00:22:14.930 --> 00:22:17.840 Was it successful? It was successful. 00:22:17.840 --> 00:22:20.910 But, unfortunately, I think, in so doing, 00:22:20.910 --> 00:22:23.150 he feeds into the military 00:22:23.150 --> 00:22:25.890 spending frenzy that has seized Congress. 00:22:25.890 --> 00:22:27.910 He got—when he made that statement, 00:22:27.910 --> 00:22:29.430 he got a standing ovation. 00:22:29.430 --> 00:22:31.290 Democrats and Republicans stood up 00:22:31.290 --> 00:22:33.210 and applauded more defense spending. 00:22:33.210 --> 00:22:35.330 And this is what’s happening in this country. 00:22:35.330 --> 00:22:39.250 The president has submitted a budget for $750 billion 00:22:40.220 --> 00:22:44.360 for military spending—$750 billion—a big jump 00:22:44.360 --> 00:22:46.490 from the approximately $720 [billion] 00:22:46.490 --> 00:22:50.110 that we were spending last year. What do the Democrats do? 00:22:50.110 --> 00:22:52.360 They say, "Well, we’re not going to give you $750 00:22:52.360 --> 00:22:54.560 [billion]. We offer $736 [billion]." 00:22:54.560 --> 00:22:57.050 That’s their plan, $736 [billion]. 00:22:57.050 --> 00:23:00.100 So, both Republicans and Democrats, unfortunately, 00:23:00.100 --> 00:23:04.470 are feeding into this frenzy 00:23:04.470 --> 00:23:06.430 to spend more and more on weapons, 00:23:06.430 --> 00:23:09.030 at the expense of domestic expenditures. 00:23:10.810 --> 00:23:12.800 AMY GOODMAN: Joe, you’ve written several books, 00:23:12.800 --> 00:23:14.750 one of them Nuclear Nightmares: 00:23:14.750 --> 00:23:18.800 Securing the World Before It Is Too Late, and Bomb Scare: 00:23:18.800 --> 00:23:21.310 The History and Future of Nuclear Weapons. 00:23:21.310 --> 00:23:22.850 Do you think it’s too late? 00:23:22.850 --> 00:23:24.749 And what do you think needs to happen? 00:23:25.800 --> 00:23:27.040 JOE CIRINCIONE: All the arrows are pointing 00:23:27.040 --> 00:23:28.790 in the wrong direction, 00:23:28.790 --> 00:23:31.740 so nuclear storm clouds are gathering. 00:23:31.740 --> 00:23:36.150 For example, John Bolton, the national security adviser, 00:23:36.150 --> 00:23:39.430 has been very successful in sabotaging talks 00:23:39.430 --> 00:23:40.670 with North Korea. 00:23:40.670 --> 00:23:43.110 The one benefit of the Trump presidency 00:23:43.110 --> 00:23:47.080 might be that he could negotiate a solid deal with Kim Jong-un. 00:23:47.080 --> 00:23:49.690 It now appears, according to reports this week, 00:23:49.690 --> 00:23:52.060 that at the Hanoi summit John Bolton 00:23:52.060 --> 00:23:53.640 sabotaged those talks 00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:56.770 by presenting a list of unacceptable demands, 00:23:56.770 --> 00:23:59.650 an all-or-nothing offer to the North Koreans 00:23:59.650 --> 00:24:02.640 that caused them to call off the talks. 00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:05.650 He has killed the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty. 00:24:05.650 --> 00:24:10.040 This is a Ronald Reagan treaty, that successfully pulled out 00:24:10.040 --> 00:24:13.070 and destroyed 3,000 nuclear weapons from Europe. 00:24:13.070 --> 00:24:15.640 You may have been covering this in the ’80s, Amy. 00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:18.250 When we were pouring nuclear weapons into Europe, 00:24:18.250 --> 00:24:19.970 massive demonstrations. 00:24:19.970 --> 00:24:21.630 The biggest rift in the NATO alliance 00:24:21.630 --> 00:24:24.080 until this point was that crisis. 00:24:24.080 --> 00:24:27.370 Ronald Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev negotiated a treaty. 00:24:27.370 --> 00:24:30.130 Bolton never liked it. He killed it. 00:24:30.130 --> 00:24:31.390 And why did he kill it? 00:24:31.390 --> 00:24:33.790 He used the excuse of a Russian violation, 00:24:33.790 --> 00:24:36.030 which I believe is real but the kind of thing 00:24:36.030 --> 00:24:38.370 that can be fixed within the treaty framework. 00:24:38.370 --> 00:24:40.430 And what—but why did they kill it? 00:24:40.430 --> 00:24:42.930 Because there are elements in the U.S. military 00:24:42.930 --> 00:24:44.590 and the defense industry 00:24:44.590 --> 00:24:46.960 that want to build new nuclear weapons 00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:48.780 that were prohibited by that treaty, 00:24:48.780 --> 00:24:52.800 to deploy against China and to put into Europe. 00:24:52.800 --> 00:24:55.500 So, weeks after we announced 00:24:55.500 --> 00:24:57.210 we were withdrawing from the treaty, 00:24:57.210 --> 00:24:59.570 it was revealed that the Department of Defense 00:24:59.570 --> 00:25:02.460 is starting manufacturing, research and development 00:25:02.460 --> 00:25:05.700 and production of a new ground-launched cruise missile, 00:25:05.700 --> 00:25:07.110 a so-called GLCM. 00:25:07.110 --> 00:25:09.160 You may remember this phrase from the ’80s. 00:25:09.160 --> 00:25:11.680 It was GLCMs and Pershing IIs 00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:13.590 that we were pouring into Europe. 00:25:13.590 --> 00:25:16.590 And so, Secretary General Stoltenberg 00:25:16.590 --> 00:25:18.340 sought to assure the Congress 00:25:18.340 --> 00:25:21.420 that NATO would not accept a new intermediate 00:25:21.420 --> 00:25:23.890 nuclear forces nuclear weapon in Europe. 00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:27.350 So Bolton is doing this a little cleverly. 00:25:27.350 --> 00:25:29.240 It’s like a Trojan horse. 00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:31.470 It’s going to be a conventionally armed 00:25:31.470 --> 00:25:33.060 ground-launched cruise missile, 00:25:33.060 --> 00:25:36.590 a conventionally armed GLCM, that will go into Europe, 00:25:36.590 --> 00:25:38.470 perhaps in the next couple of years. 00:25:38.470 --> 00:25:41.290 But, of course, you can easily swap out 00:25:41.290 --> 00:25:43.850 the conventional warhead for a nuclear warhead. 00:25:43.850 --> 00:25:46.550 So I think they’re planning to put these weapons in 00:25:46.550 --> 00:25:48.750 to avoid the kind of mass demonstrations, 00:25:48.750 --> 00:25:52.630 and later, possibly, equip them with nuclear weapons. 00:25:53.590 --> 00:25:55.900 This is the kind of Cold War policy 00:25:55.900 --> 00:25:57.460 that we thought was behind us. 00:25:57.460 --> 00:25:59.160 We thought the arms race was over. 00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:02.580 It’s not over. We are in a new arms race. 00:26:02.580 --> 00:26:04.730 Every single nuclear-armed country 00:26:04.730 --> 00:26:07.080 is building new nuclear weapons 00:26:07.080 --> 00:26:09.210 and heading towards a confrontation point. 00:26:09.210 --> 00:26:11.580 You’ve got to be a real optimist 00:26:11.580 --> 00:26:14.970 to think that you can keep thousands of nuclear weapons 00:26:14.970 --> 00:26:17.320 in fallible human hands indefinitely 00:26:17.320 --> 00:26:19.730 and something terrible is not going to happen. 00:26:19.730 --> 00:26:23.280 I am very worried about the direction of the arms race, 00:26:23.280 --> 00:26:25.250 the direction of our policies. 00:26:25.250 --> 00:26:27.490 AMY GOODMAN: Joe Cirincione, president of Ploughshares Fund, 00:26:27.490 --> 00:26:28.870 author of Nuclear Nightmares: 00:26:28.870 --> 00:26:31.620 Securing the World Before It Is Too Late and Bomb Scare: 00:26:31.620 --> 00:26:33.450 The History and Future of Nuclear Weapons. 00:26:33.450 --> 00:26:37.660 To see Part 1 of our interview, go to democracynow.org. 00:26:37.660 --> 00:27:26.830 This is Democracy Now! Back in a minute. 00:27:26.830 --> 00:27:29.350 AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, 00:27:29.350 --> 00:27:31.830 The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. 00:27:31.830 --> 00:27:34.420 A group of activists have been jailed 00:27:34.420 --> 00:27:36.750 for over a year before trial 00:27:36.750 --> 00:27:39.270 for entering the Kings Bay Naval Submarine Base 00:27:39.270 --> 00:27:43.470 in Georgia last April to protest U.S. nuclear weapons. 00:27:43.470 --> 00:27:46.290 The action took place April 4th, 2018, 00:27:46.290 --> 00:27:49.810 the 50th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.’s assassination. 00:27:50.330 --> 00:27:52.490 Armed with hammers, crime scene tape, 00:27:52.490 --> 00:27:55.040 baby bottles containing their own blood, 00:27:55.040 --> 00:27:57.750 seven anti-nuclear activists secretly entered 00:27:57.750 --> 00:28:00.960 Kings Bay—one of the largest nuclear submarine bases 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:02.859 in the world—under the cover of night. 00:28:03.610 --> 00:28:06.090 Their goal was to symbolically disarm 00:28:06.090 --> 00:28:08.920 the six nuclear ballistic missile submarines kept there. 00:28:09.520 --> 00:28:13.040 Each submarine carries 20 Trident thermonuclear weapons. 00:28:13.760 --> 00:28:15.710 One year after this historic action, 00:28:15.710 --> 00:28:17.250 three of the Plowshares activists 00:28:17.250 --> 00:28:19.280 remain jailed in Georgia. 00:28:19.280 --> 00:28:22.120 The other four are out on $50,000 bond 00:28:22.120 --> 00:28:24.350 with electronic ankle monitors. 00:28:24.350 --> 00:28:27.090 All seven face up to 25 years in prison. 00:28:27.670 --> 00:28:30.480 They’ve been charged with three felonies and a misdemeanor. 00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:33.450 On Thursday, global leaders, activists and scholars, 00:28:33.450 --> 00:28:35.630 including the Nobel Prize-winning 00:28:35.630 --> 00:28:38.260 former South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu, 00:28:38.790 --> 00:28:41.150 Daniel Ellsberg and Noam Chomsky, 00:28:41.150 --> 00:28:42.920 released a petition addressed 00:28:42.920 --> 00:28:44.680 to U.S. Attorney General William Barr 00:28:44.680 --> 00:28:47.470 demanding all charges against the Kings Bay 7 00:28:47.470 --> 00:28:49.210 be dropped immediately. 00:28:49.210 --> 00:28:51.310 The petition reads in part, quote, 00:28:51.310 --> 00:28:53.630 "We who share the moral vision of the Kings Bay 00:28:53.630 --> 00:28:56.530 Plowshares 7 proclaim our support for their courage 00:28:56.530 --> 00:28:57.930 and sustained sacrifice 00:28:57.930 --> 00:29:00.000 and call for the immediate dismissal 00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:02.040 of all charges against them," unquote. 00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:05.030 The Kings Bay protest builds on a history 00:29:05.030 --> 00:29:06.820 of similar anti-nuclear Plowshares actions 00:29:06.820 --> 00:29:08.170 around the world, 00:29:08.170 --> 00:29:11.030 beginning in 1980 in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania. 00:29:11.660 --> 00:29:13.820 That first Plowshares act was led 00:29:13.820 --> 00:29:16.730 by the late Father Daniel and Philip Berrigan. 00:29:16.730 --> 00:29:18.940 Phil’s widow, Liz McAlister, 00:29:18.940 --> 00:29:21.260 is one of the seven arrested last April. 00:29:21.260 --> 00:29:24.830 She remains locked up, alongside Jesuit priest Stephen Kelly 00:29:24.830 --> 00:29:26.830 and Mark Colville in Brunswick, Georgia. 00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:30.400 I recently sat down with the four Plowshares activists 00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:31.940 who are out on bond. 00:29:31.940 --> 00:29:34.690 Martha Hennessy is the granddaughter of Dorothy Day, 00:29:34.690 --> 00:29:36.910 the founder of the Catholic Worker Movement. 00:29:36.910 --> 00:29:38.210 Carmen Trotta helps run 00:29:38.210 --> 00:29:41.340 the St. Joseph Catholic Worker House here in New York. 00:29:41.340 --> 00:29:43.290 And Patrick O’Neill is the co-founder 00:29:43.290 --> 00:29:46.430 of a Catholic Worker House in Garner, North Carolina. 00:29:46.430 --> 00:29:48.660 Clare Grady is a member of the Ithaca, New York, 00:29:48.660 --> 00:29:49.940 Catholic Worker. 00:29:49.940 --> 00:29:51.700 They joined us in our New York studio 00:29:51.700 --> 00:29:55.850 for their first joint interview since being arrested. 00:29:55.850 --> 00:29:57.720 I started by asking Patrick O’Neill 00:29:57.720 --> 00:30:01.790 to take us back to that night of April 4th, 2018. 00:30:02.730 --> 00:30:06.010 PATRICK O’NEILL: Well, the seven of us cut a lock 00:30:06.010 --> 00:30:08.190 and got into the naval station, Kings Bay. 00:30:08.190 --> 00:30:09.900 We had already done our homework. 00:30:09.900 --> 00:30:11.100 And— 00:30:11.100 --> 00:30:12.450 AMY GOODMAN: Where is Kings Bay? 00:30:12.450 --> 00:30:15.050 PATRICK O’NEILL: It’s in St. Marys, Georgia, 00:30:15.050 --> 00:30:17.440 right on the Florida-Georgia border. 00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:21.470 And the sub base was the baby of Jimmy Carter. 00:30:21.470 --> 00:30:24.020 He’s the one that brought that nuclear system 00:30:24.020 --> 00:30:25.670 to southeast Georgia. 00:30:25.670 --> 00:30:28.160 And so, we cut a lock, and we went in. 00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:31.530 And we we were together for probably about an hour, 00:30:31.530 --> 00:30:33.400 and then we split into three groups, 00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:36.400 and we had already planned to go to separate places. 00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:40.850 So, Carmen and Liz McAlister and Steve Kelly went to the bunkers, 00:30:40.850 --> 00:30:42.810 where nuclear warheads are stored. 00:30:43.370 --> 00:30:46.940 Martha and Clare went to the headquarters of the facility. 00:30:46.940 --> 00:30:49.610 And Mark Colville and I went to what we call the shrine, 00:30:49.610 --> 00:30:53.320 but it was actually statues of nuclear weapons 00:30:53.320 --> 00:30:55.940 surrounded by flags coming up out of the ground, 00:30:55.940 --> 00:30:57.270 many, many of them. 00:30:57.270 --> 00:30:59.570 AMY GOODMAN: And why did you choose that site 00:30:59.570 --> 00:31:01.510 to perform this, 00:31:01.510 --> 00:31:03.910 to engage in this Plowshares action? 00:31:03.910 --> 00:31:06.800 PATRICK O’NEILL: Well, it seemed absurd 00:31:06.800 --> 00:31:09.550 that we would have a shrine to nuclear weapons. 00:31:09.550 --> 00:31:10.980 In North Carolina, where I live, 00:31:10.980 --> 00:31:14.060 we’re taking down Confederate monuments. 00:31:14.060 --> 00:31:17.240 But here we had monuments, literally phallic monuments, 00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:20.840 that were actually replicas of weapons of mass destruction 00:31:20.840 --> 00:31:23.580 surrounded by flags, including the U.S. flag. 00:31:23.580 --> 00:31:26.650 And I thought, "This is the most incredible example 00:31:26.650 --> 00:31:30.090 of modern-day idolatry we could find, 00:31:30.090 --> 00:31:31.700 maybe on planet Earth." 00:31:31.700 --> 00:31:35.590 And it was it was the responsibility to smash idols. 00:31:35.590 --> 00:31:38.010 So that’s why we went there. 00:31:38.010 --> 00:31:40.340 AMY GOODMAN: And what did you particularly do? You went with? 00:31:41.390 --> 00:31:42.600 PATRICK O’NEILL: Well, it was Mark Colville and I, 00:31:42.600 --> 00:31:43.830 AMY GOODMAN: Who is in jail. 00:31:43.830 --> 00:31:45.080 PATRICK O’NEILL: And we went to the monument. 00:31:45.080 --> 00:31:47.610 And I had gotten some hammers 00:31:47.610 --> 00:31:50.200 from Shane Claiborne from The Simple Way, 00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:52.470 that were made from melted-down guns. 00:31:53.100 --> 00:31:56.590 And I went running up to the monument of the D5 missile, 00:31:56.590 --> 00:31:57.950 which is the Trident missile, 00:31:57.950 --> 00:32:00.490 that is the most insidious, deadliest weapon 00:32:00.490 --> 00:32:02.340 ever made in the history of humanity, 00:32:03.090 --> 00:32:06.420 a first-strike accurate-within- a-hundred-yards nuclear weapon. 00:32:07.010 --> 00:32:08.310 And I went running up to it 00:32:08.310 --> 00:32:11.750 with the hopes that my hammer would put a hole in it. 00:32:11.750 --> 00:32:13.480 But when I hit it, it went "bong!" 00:32:14.330 --> 00:32:16.490 And it was made of cement, and the hammer had broke off. 00:32:16.490 --> 00:32:18.190 So, it was a strong idol. 00:32:19.470 --> 00:32:20.850 AMY GOODMAN: And then what? 00:32:20.850 --> 00:32:24.680 PATRICK O’NEILL: We threw blood on the insignia of the base 00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:27.280 and also on the missile replicas 00:32:27.890 --> 00:32:31.060 and hammered on some of the stuff around there. 00:32:31.060 --> 00:32:33.070 AMY GOODMAN: And why this base in particular? 00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:35.500 PATRICK O’NEILL: Well, oddly enough, 00:32:35.500 --> 00:32:37.860 even though that base has been there for 30 years—I mean, 00:32:37.860 --> 00:32:42.390 it was loaded with the nuclear warheads back in the late '80s. 00:32:42.390 --> 00:32:47.340 There had been a huge action at Cape Canaveral in 1987, 00:32:47.340 --> 00:32:49.760 when the bombs were being flight tested. 00:32:49.760 --> 00:32:53.130 And, you know, Dr. Spock—it was 5,000 people 00:32:53.130 --> 00:32:54.690 went down there to oppose the flight 00:32:54.690 --> 00:32:56.910 testing of the D5 missiles at that time. 00:32:57.460 --> 00:32:59.650 But even after that 30 years, 00:32:59.650 --> 00:33:02.160 the Trident base had very little resistance 00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:05.400 from the community down there, not like out in Washington state 00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:07.400 where the other Trident base is, in Kitsap, 00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:10.160 where there's always been a lot of ongoing resistance. 00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:12.280 There just had never really been much happening here, 00:33:12.280 --> 00:33:15.270 and we thought it was a good place to call attention to, 00:33:15.270 --> 00:33:18.490 in light of the horrific nature of the Trident system. 00:33:18.490 --> 00:33:19.760 And we were hoping, too, 00:33:19.760 --> 00:33:24.270 that this would somehow show our solidarity with the triplets 00:33:24.270 --> 00:33:25.700 that Martin Luther King spoke of. 00:33:25.700 --> 00:33:27.400 We wanted to make the connections, 00:33:27.970 --> 00:33:30.140 on the anniversary of King’s assassination, 00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:34.970 to militarism, consumerism and racism. 00:33:34.970 --> 00:33:37.370 So, we we wanted to just, 00:33:37.370 --> 00:33:39.770 I guess, what we call, educate the base. 00:33:41.300 --> 00:33:43.800 AMY GOODMAN: Clare Grady, talk about why you made 00:33:43.800 --> 00:33:46.930 this decision to engage in this. You face years in prison. 00:33:48.080 --> 00:33:49.870 CLARE GRADY: Thanks, Amy. 00:33:49.870 --> 00:33:53.320 I had been part of a Plowshares action in the ’80s, 1983, 00:33:53.320 --> 00:33:54.700 with the Griffiss Plowshares, 00:33:54.700 --> 00:33:56.440 with Liz McAlister and six other friends. 00:33:57.770 --> 00:33:59.050 AMY GOODMAN: And Griffiss was? 00:33:59.050 --> 00:34:00.300 CLARE GRADY: At Griffiss Air Force Base, 00:34:00.300 --> 00:34:02.370 where they had the cruise missile being built, 00:34:02.370 --> 00:34:04.810 B-52 bombers that had been used in Vietnam 00:34:04.810 --> 00:34:06.600 with payload of death. 00:34:06.600 --> 00:34:09.040 But now, at that point, it was being reoutfitted 00:34:09.040 --> 00:34:11.050 to carry first-strike cruise missiles. 00:34:11.050 --> 00:34:13.870 So, the Doomsday Clock was three minutes to midnight, 00:34:13.870 --> 00:34:16.470 and these first-strike weapons were a big part of that. 00:34:16.470 --> 00:34:18.300 So, as a young woman in my twenties, 00:34:18.300 --> 00:34:20.220 I was very conscious of this, 00:34:20.220 --> 00:34:22.810 the omnicidal weapons of that time. 00:34:24.400 --> 00:34:26.960 Now, in 2018—well, 00:34:27.500 --> 00:34:32.290 last April—the compelling reason for me was— 00:34:32.290 --> 00:34:33.490 AMY GOODMAN: And that was in Griffiss, 00:34:33.490 --> 00:34:35.010 as in Rome, New York, upstate. 00:34:35.010 --> 00:34:38.010 CLARE GRADY: Griffiss is in Rome, New York, yes. 00:34:38.010 --> 00:34:39.800 Griffiss is in Rome, New York. 00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:43.610 And I lived about an hour and a half from there, 00:34:43.610 --> 00:34:45.990 in Ithaca, New York, in Cayuga territory. 00:34:45.990 --> 00:34:47.250 AMY GOODMAN: How many years 00:34:47.250 --> 00:34:48.990 did you serve for that action, if any? 00:34:48.990 --> 00:34:51.660 CLARE GRADY: We were the facing the charge of sabotage, 00:34:51.660 --> 00:34:53.480 which carried 25 years. 00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:55.960 But we were acquitted of that charge 00:34:55.960 --> 00:34:58.840 after a 5-week trial, jury trial. 00:34:58.840 --> 00:35:02.580 And I got a 2-year sentence in federal prison. 00:35:02.580 --> 00:35:05.290 And I served my time in Alderson, West Virginia, 00:35:05.290 --> 00:35:06.990 at the women’s federal prison. 00:35:08.050 --> 00:35:11.120 But now, in my—well, I’m 60 years old now. 00:35:11.120 --> 00:35:15.190 But at this point, I really see and understand 00:35:15.190 --> 00:35:19.620 how these weapons are not just omnicidal if they’re launched; 00:35:20.210 --> 00:35:23.490 they’re deadly now, every day. And so, 00:35:25.270 --> 00:35:30.330 I see them as the capstone to the systems of violence, 00:35:30.330 --> 00:35:34.070 from the top down to the police gun in the street 00:35:34.070 --> 00:35:37.760 that kills and threatens to kill, 00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:40.930 but that these weapons are the bully stick 00:35:40.930 --> 00:35:43.600 that’s used in the same way that a gun is used 00:35:43.600 --> 00:35:46.320 when it’s held to the head of someone. 00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:49.550 Even if you don’t pull that trigger, you’re using that gun. 00:35:49.550 --> 00:35:52.010 So we’re using these weapons every day. 00:35:52.010 --> 00:35:55.890 And I’m not just concerned about if they’re launched, 00:35:55.890 --> 00:35:59.180 but how they’re used every day in a way that’s, 00:35:59.180 --> 00:36:02.660 my friend Poko says, to extort. 00:36:02.660 --> 00:36:05.620 So they are the enforcement mechanism 00:36:05.620 --> 00:36:10.920 that’s necessary to enforce these systems of white supremacy 00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:14.720 and global capitalism, is how I see it. 00:36:14.720 --> 00:36:19.630 And so, going to Kings Bay with my friends 00:36:19.630 --> 00:36:23.220 was my way of withdrawing my consent from that system. 00:36:23.220 --> 00:36:24.870 AMY GOODMAN: And so, what exactly did you do, 00:36:24.870 --> 00:36:26.100 along with Martha? 00:36:26.100 --> 00:36:27.830 CLARE GRADY: So, Martha and I 00:36:27.830 --> 00:36:30.870 went to the administration building, SWFLANT, 00:36:30.870 --> 00:36:33.710 and we put up crime scene tape at the front of the door. 00:36:33.710 --> 00:36:35.240 So this is in the middle of the night. 00:36:35.240 --> 00:36:37.520 And yet there are people, parked in the parking lot, 00:36:37.520 --> 00:36:39.150 working inside that building. 00:36:39.150 --> 00:36:40.740 We didn’t go inside the building, 00:36:40.740 --> 00:36:44.030 but we chose to put up this crime scene tape in the front, 00:36:44.030 --> 00:36:47.130 put up the indictment indicting for war crimes, 00:36:47.130 --> 00:36:50.810 from the chain of command, the head of the base, 00:36:51.370 --> 00:36:52.750 the commander of that base, 00:36:52.750 --> 00:36:55.720 up to the president, for war crimes. 00:36:55.720 --> 00:36:58.630 We brought Daniel Ellsberg’s book The Doomsday Machine, 00:36:59.900 --> 00:37:03.400 which is Confessions of a Nuclear War Planner. 00:37:03.400 --> 00:37:07.840 It’s as in-depth as you can get about our nuclear war policy 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:09.950 from back in the ’50s and ’60s. 00:37:09.950 --> 00:37:14.150 So we brought these things as evidence to show 00:37:14.150 --> 00:37:19.470 why there is an urgency, why is there not just a right, 00:37:19.470 --> 00:37:23.700 but a necessity, for us to disarm our first-strike, 00:37:23.700 --> 00:37:25.450 First World nuclear weapons. 00:37:25.450 --> 00:37:27.200 Then we brought a small amount of our blood. 00:37:27.200 --> 00:37:30.050 We poured that on the ground at the entranceway. 00:37:30.050 --> 00:37:32.399 And we bought spray paint, and we spray-painted 00:37:34.620 --> 00:37:36.760 "Disarm Trident, Love One Another" 00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:38.670 and a few other things. 00:37:38.670 --> 00:37:40.460 AMY GOODMAN: And how did you get caught? 00:37:40.460 --> 00:37:43.260 CLARE GRADY: So, nobody was coming 00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:44.850 in and out of that entrance, 00:37:44.850 --> 00:37:48.340 so we chose to go over to where Patrick and Mark 00:37:48.340 --> 00:37:53.680 were disarming, at that shrine, that Patrick just described. 00:37:53.680 --> 00:37:57.160 And we were there for probably an hour, 00:37:58.260 --> 00:38:02.300 in plain visibility of the security guards 00:38:02.300 --> 00:38:04.370 that were driving back and forth. 00:38:04.370 --> 00:38:06.330 And at that point we realized 00:38:06.330 --> 00:38:11.310 that they were much more interested in arresting—well, 00:38:11.310 --> 00:38:15.070 Carmen, Liz and Steve went to the bunkers, 00:38:15.070 --> 00:38:18.460 which was a really highly secure area with deadly force, 00:38:18.460 --> 00:38:23.630 so they did not even look at us, until they finished that arrest. 00:38:23.630 --> 00:38:25.060 AMY GOODMAN: And, Clare, why did you do this 00:38:25.060 --> 00:38:27.970 on the anniversary of Dr. King’s assassination? 00:38:27.970 --> 00:38:30.870 CLARE GRADY: Well, for me, it’s been really important, 00:38:32.490 --> 00:38:36.520 identified—the triplets that the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King 00:38:36.520 --> 00:38:41.930 identifies, of racism, extreme materialism and militarism, 00:38:41.930 --> 00:38:44.490 are the key things that work together, 00:38:44.490 --> 00:38:48.370 all the time together. Not one by itself, 00:38:48.370 --> 00:38:52.380 but all together make a deadly, deadly combination. 00:38:52.380 --> 00:38:56.540 And so, Dr. King is known for many, many things, 00:38:57.940 --> 00:39:02.220 but I feel like he’s been stripped of many of his messages 00:39:02.220 --> 00:39:03.440 and life’s purpose. 00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:10.330 And so I want to honor what he gave us in that moment. 00:39:11.300 --> 00:39:14.630 AMY GOODMAN: Martha Hennessy, you, together with Clare, 00:39:15.560 --> 00:39:18.120 engaged in this particular action at that site, 00:39:18.120 --> 00:39:20.070 but, together with the seven activists, 00:39:20.650 --> 00:39:22.630 participated in this Plowshares action. 00:39:22.630 --> 00:39:24.980 Again, you’re the granddaughter of Dorothy Day, 00:39:24.980 --> 00:39:26.910 the founder of the Catholic Worker Movement. 00:39:26.910 --> 00:39:28.940 For people who aren’t familiar with it, 00:39:28.940 --> 00:39:31.250 explain what the Catholic Worker Movement 00:39:31.250 --> 00:39:33.880 is about, why you, as Catholics, did this. 00:39:34.890 --> 00:39:38.210 MARTHA HENNESSY: The Catholic Worker Movement began in 1933, 00:39:38.210 --> 00:39:41.060 you know, under the duress of the Great Depression. 00:39:41.060 --> 00:39:43.010 And Dorothy, of course, was a journalist. 00:39:43.010 --> 00:39:44.290 And Peter Maurin, 00:39:44.290 --> 00:39:46.950 the other founder of the Catholic Worker Movement, 00:39:46.950 --> 00:39:49.310 instructed her in the Catholic social teaching. 00:39:49.980 --> 00:39:54.410 And so, the newspaper was there to be the voice of the people 00:39:55.010 --> 00:39:56.920 on the street who were voiceless. 00:39:57.510 --> 00:40:00.700 And since then, it has grown into a movement. 00:40:00.700 --> 00:40:02.590 It’s into its 85th year. 00:40:03.390 --> 00:40:06.080 And there are perhaps 200 communities 00:40:06.080 --> 00:40:08.730 around the United States and around the world. 00:40:08.730 --> 00:40:10.629 They call themselves Catholic Workers. 00:40:11.270 --> 00:40:14.750 And we minister to the poor. We practice the works of mercy: 00:40:14.750 --> 00:40:16.730 to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked. 00:40:16.730 --> 00:40:21.030 And Dorothy died in 1980, and we continue to try 00:40:21.030 --> 00:40:26.570 and walk in those footsteps of the disciples and of Dorothy. 00:40:27.720 --> 00:40:29.790 AMY GOODMAN: And so, your decision to engage 00:40:29.790 --> 00:40:32.900 in this action? Have you engaged in one before? 00:40:32.900 --> 00:40:34.160 MARTHA HENNESSY: No, never. 00:40:34.160 --> 00:40:35.840 AMY GOODMAN: So this is a major decision 00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:37.420 you’ve made in your life. 00:40:37.420 --> 00:40:39.890 MARTHA HENNESSY: Yes, with some trepidation 00:40:39.890 --> 00:40:41.490 regarding the Catholic Worker Movement 00:40:41.490 --> 00:40:42.940 and the Plowshares Movement 00:40:42.940 --> 00:40:47.480 and the two trajectories of those movements. 00:40:47.480 --> 00:40:49.180 AMY GOODMAN: What was your trepidation? 00:40:49.890 --> 00:40:51.270 MARTHA HENNESSY: The whole question 00:40:51.270 --> 00:40:56.250 of nonviolence and secrecy. I mean, Dorothy and Gandhi 00:40:56.250 --> 00:41:00.680 and King all operated in a different way. 00:41:00.680 --> 00:41:03.370 They weren’t sneaking onto U.S. military bases. 00:41:03.370 --> 00:41:07.920 And so my trepidation was what we did have to undergo 00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:09.950 to make this action possible. 00:41:10.690 --> 00:41:14.740 And I had to go through a disarmament process of myself; 00:41:14.740 --> 00:41:16.440 the war in my own heart 00:41:17.870 --> 00:41:20.400 is always just under the surface. 00:41:21.100 --> 00:41:23.450 And this was part of my faith journey. 00:41:23.450 --> 00:41:25.720 And the people that I was able to be with 00:41:25.720 --> 00:41:29.940 and to do this action with made all the difference to me. 00:41:29.940 --> 00:41:32.540 AMY GOODMAN: And what stands out most for you about that action, 00:41:32.540 --> 00:41:36.370 what you remember, as the seven of you went onto this base 00:41:36.370 --> 00:41:38.760 on the anniversary of King’s assassination 00:41:39.900 --> 00:41:42.410 with your own blood, with hammers? 00:41:44.210 --> 00:41:46.150 MARTHA HENNESSY:* Well, the utter fear in my heart of 00:41:46.150 --> 00:41:48.850 walking in the dark to challenge the greatest, 00:41:48.850 --> 00:41:51.220 most violent force on Earth: 00:41:51.220 --> 00:41:53.630 my own government and its military. 00:41:54.410 --> 00:41:58.890 And that was in great contrast to the man who arrested us, 00:41:58.890 --> 00:42:00.600 who was incredibly kind, 00:42:01.140 --> 00:42:03.850 incredibly professional, incredibly considerate. 00:42:04.670 --> 00:42:09.490 And he even began to tell us about losing a child, 00:42:09.490 --> 00:42:11.890 losing a child in its infancy. 00:42:12.570 --> 00:42:17.710 And the combination of this dreadful, dreadful place 00:42:17.710 --> 00:42:21.140 and this man who worked at the base, 00:42:21.140 --> 00:42:24.750 his humanity just became so clear to me in that setting. 00:42:24.750 --> 00:42:27.740 So, the combination of great fear and great love. 00:42:28.940 --> 00:42:30.400 AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to the words 00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:32.490 of the late Father Dan Berrigan, 00:42:32.490 --> 00:42:35.130 who helped launch the international anti-nuclear 00:42:35.130 --> 00:42:38.060 Plowshares movement with his brother, Phil. 00:42:38.060 --> 00:42:41.610 Phil, of course, was the husband of Liz McAlister, 00:42:41.610 --> 00:42:42.860 lives as his widow. 00:42:42.860 --> 00:42:45.180 Dan Berrigan and seven others poured blood 00:42:45.180 --> 00:42:48.930 and hammered on warheads at a GE nuclear missile plant—Dan, 00:42:48.930 --> 00:42:51.890 Phil and others—in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania. 00:42:52.410 --> 00:42:54.870 I asked Father Berrigan about this 00:42:54.870 --> 00:42:58.260 during an interview I did with him in 2006. 00:42:58.260 --> 00:42:59.850 FATHER DANIEL BERRIGAN: We went in with the workers 00:42:59.850 --> 00:43:01.550 at the changing of the shift 00:43:02.770 --> 00:43:05.540 and found there was really no security worth 00:43:05.540 --> 00:43:09.570 talking about, a very easy entrance. 00:43:10.210 --> 00:43:13.360 In about three minutes, we were looking at doomsday. 00:43:13.900 --> 00:43:18.470 The weapon was before us. It was an unarmed warhead 00:43:19.130 --> 00:43:22.360 about to be shipped to Amarillo, Texas, for its payload. 00:43:23.250 --> 00:43:26.130 So it was a harmless weapon as of that moment. 00:43:26.810 --> 00:43:31.340 And we cracked the weapon. It was very fragile. 00:43:33.010 --> 00:43:35.330 It was made to withstand the heat of re-entry 00:43:35.330 --> 00:43:37.680 into the atmosphere from outer space, 00:43:37.680 --> 00:43:39.630 so it was like eggshell, really. 00:43:40.930 --> 00:43:46.160 And we had taken as our model the great statement of Isaiah 2: 00:43:46.160 --> 00:43:48.840 "They shall beat their swords into plowshares." 00:43:48.840 --> 00:43:53.730 So we did it, poured our blood around it and stood in a circle, 00:43:54.860 --> 00:43:56.630 I think, reciting the Lord’s Prayer 00:43:56.630 --> 00:43:59.960 until Armageddon arrived, as we expected. 00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:03.170 AMY GOODMAN: That was the late Father Dan Berrigan, 00:44:03.170 --> 00:44:05.840 talking about the action they took back in the ’80s—this 00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:07.980 is during the Reagan-Bush 00:44:07.980 --> 00:44:10.850 years—at King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, 00:44:10.850 --> 00:44:12.400 which really launched the modern-day 00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:13.980 U.S. Plowshares movement. 00:44:13.980 --> 00:44:17.710 Carmen, you were a dear friend of Father Dan Berrigan. 00:44:17.710 --> 00:44:19.650 This also was your first action, 00:44:19.650 --> 00:44:22.400 though you have been a leader of the Catholic Worker Movement 00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:24.420 in New York City for decades. 00:44:24.420 --> 00:44:27.680 And talk about the decision you made to engage in this action, 00:44:27.680 --> 00:44:29.670 now facing years in jail. 00:44:30.210 --> 00:44:33.820 CARMEN TROTTA: I could mention that I was a part of three prior 00:44:33.820 --> 00:44:36.040 Plowshares action development groups 00:44:36.040 --> 00:44:41.690 and wasn’t able, myself, to go forth with those actions, 00:44:41.690 --> 00:44:43.480 and I really put it off for a very long time. 00:44:43.480 --> 00:44:45.920 So it’s 30 years later or thereabouts, 00:44:47.110 --> 00:44:49.659 when it comes back around to me, or 20 years later. 00:44:50.780 --> 00:44:52.560 A great deal of it had to do with the community 00:44:52.560 --> 00:44:54.050 that had gathered, 00:44:54.050 --> 00:44:56.910 so many of them coming out of the Catholic Worker. 00:44:56.910 --> 00:44:58.280 These were dear friends. 00:44:58.280 --> 00:45:00.079 Four of the seven of us went to Guantánamo together. 00:45:00.990 --> 00:45:02.370 So we’d been— 00:45:02.370 --> 00:45:03.650 AMY GOODMAN: To protest the prison. 00:45:03.650 --> 00:45:04.860 CARMEN TROTTA: Protest the U.S. militarism, 00:45:04.860 --> 00:45:07.850 to protest the torture going on at Guantánamo at the time. 00:45:07.850 --> 00:45:10.140 There was a prisoner strike, back in 2005. 00:45:11.380 --> 00:45:14.040 And so, to walk into the room and see the people—once 00:45:14.040 --> 00:45:16.850 I had decided to explore it again, 00:45:16.850 --> 00:45:18.110 to see the people that were there 00:45:18.110 --> 00:45:20.180 was phenomenally compelling. 00:45:22.330 --> 00:45:25.060 Also, all of this occurs in the context 00:45:26.070 --> 00:45:27.960 of all those years at the Catholic Worker, 00:45:27.960 --> 00:45:30.310 there is war, and there is war, and there is war, 00:45:30.310 --> 00:45:33.450 and we are 17 years at war in Afghanistan. 00:45:33.450 --> 00:45:38.320 And so, all of our work, all of our other protests in the city 00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:42.910 had been seemingly easily dismissed. 00:45:43.480 --> 00:45:46.690 Every arrest in this city led to—the only punishment 00:45:46.690 --> 00:45:50.220 that they gave you was that you went to court six times, 00:45:50.220 --> 00:45:52.140 and they would never actually give you a trial. 00:45:52.140 --> 00:45:53.400 And then they would dismiss the case, 00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:55.520 but they made you come to court six times 00:45:55.520 --> 00:45:57.220 over the period of a year. 00:45:59.580 --> 00:46:02.010 And so, this is the taproot of violence, 00:46:02.010 --> 00:46:03.700 really, the nuclear system. 00:46:03.700 --> 00:46:05.970 The Berrigans pointed that out pretty early. 00:46:06.600 --> 00:46:09.860 And we could not have chosen, in a certain way, 00:46:09.860 --> 00:46:11.560 a better time to do it, 00:46:12.850 --> 00:46:16.560 given the nature of the weapon systems now 00:46:17.250 --> 00:46:20.200 and the pulling out of the treaties, the INF Treaty 00:46:20.200 --> 00:46:22.150 and if we pull out of the START treaty. 00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:25.820 My understanding is, nuclear weapons will be entirely 00:46:25.820 --> 00:46:29.190 unregulated for the first time since 1972. 00:46:29.190 --> 00:46:31.520 AMY GOODMAN: Carmen Trotta of Kings Bay Plowshares. 00:46:31.520 --> 00:46:34.050 We’ll be back with him and his co-defendants after break. 00:46:34.050 --> 00:46:36.740 They face up to 20 years in prison for entering a U.S. 00:46:36.740 --> 00:46:39.760 nuclear submarine base in Kings Bay, Georgia. 00:46:39.760 --> 00:46:43.280 This is Democracy Now! Back in 30 seconds. 00:46:43.280 --> 00:47:08.520 [break] 00:47:08.520 --> 00:47:10.200 AMY GOODMAN: "We Will Rise" by Colleen Kattau. 00:47:10.200 --> 00:47:11.410 This is Democracy Now! 00:47:11.410 --> 00:47:13.610 I’m Amy Goodman, as we continue our conversation 00:47:13.610 --> 00:47:16.020 with four members of the Kings Bay Plowshares 7, 00:47:16.020 --> 00:47:18.130 who face up to 25 years in prison 00:47:18.130 --> 00:47:21.150 for breaking into the Kings Bay Naval Submarine Base in Georgia 00:47:21.150 --> 00:47:23.790 last year to protest nuclear weapons. 00:47:23.790 --> 00:47:25.490 I recently spoke with Patrick O’Neill, 00:47:25.490 --> 00:47:28.450 Carmen Trotta, Martha Hennessy and Clare Grady 00:47:28.450 --> 00:47:31.020 in their first joint interview since being arrested. 00:47:31.020 --> 00:47:35.680 They’re out on $50,000 bond each while they await federal trial. 00:47:35.680 --> 00:47:38.240 They’re all required to wear electronic ankle monitors. 00:47:38.240 --> 00:47:39.850 I asked Martha Hennessy, 00:47:39.850 --> 00:47:42.190 the granddaughter of Dorothy Day, 00:47:42.190 --> 00:47:43.689 about the conditions of their release. 00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:45.610 MARTHA HENNESSY: We’re all on curfew. 00:47:45.610 --> 00:47:47.570 We spent the first two months on house arrest, 00:47:47.570 --> 00:47:50.270 and we were only allowed to go out with a schedule, 00:47:50.270 --> 00:47:54.090 dictated by the parole officer, related to five criteria. 00:47:54.820 --> 00:47:56.180 And now it’s curfew. 00:47:56.180 --> 00:47:57.530 PATRICK O’NEILL: And I would like to point out that— 00:47:58.040 --> 00:47:59.260 AMY GOODMAN: Patrick O’Neill. 00:47:59.260 --> 00:48:00.740 PATRICK O’NEILL: Yeah. I would like to point out 00:48:00.740 --> 00:48:03.590 that the primary use of these ankle monitors 00:48:03.590 --> 00:48:06.640 in the United States now is for undocumented people. 00:48:07.670 --> 00:48:10.050 It’s a very, very oppressive system. 00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:14.040 The ankle monitors hurt. They’re used to track people. 00:48:14.040 --> 00:48:18.020 It’s a very sophisticated form of imprisonment. 00:48:18.020 --> 00:48:21.340 And, in fact, many people are sentenced to house arrest 00:48:21.340 --> 00:48:22.930 and have to wear these ankle monitors. 00:48:22.930 --> 00:48:25.220 So we’re serving a sentence, in essence. 00:48:25.220 --> 00:48:26.810 And I don’t want to make it in any comparison 00:48:26.810 --> 00:48:28.540 to what Mark and Steve and Liz are going through, 00:48:28.540 --> 00:48:29.900 because we’ve been in the jail, 00:48:29.900 --> 00:48:32.440 but the point is, this is a very oppressive 00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:35.400 "advance" in the technology used to oppress people, 00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:38.000 and especially people of color, especially the poor. 00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:39.950 So, our suffering is minimalistic 00:48:39.950 --> 00:48:42.950 compared to how it’s being used all over the country. 00:48:42.950 --> 00:48:45.450 AMY GOODMAN: Michelle Alexander, who wrote The New Jim Crow, 00:48:46.030 --> 00:48:47.950 talks about e-carceration 00:48:47.950 --> 00:48:50.450 and the dangers of this kind of digital incarceration. 00:48:50.450 --> 00:48:51.670 PATRICK O’NEILL: That’s right. 00:48:51.670 --> 00:48:54.050 AMY GOODMAN: But it does mean you can be outside of prison 00:48:54.050 --> 00:48:58.440 for the moment. Liz McAlister, the widow of Phil 00:48:58.440 --> 00:49:03.330 Berrigan—Liz McAlister has been in jail for almost a year now. 00:49:04.150 --> 00:49:06.760 She celebrated her—if you can call it 00:49:06.760 --> 00:49:10.460 celebrating—her 79th birthday in jail. 00:49:10.460 --> 00:49:14.480 Steve Kelly turned 70 in jail. And there’s Mark Colville. 00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:18.270 So, how did you all decide to leave jail, 00:49:18.270 --> 00:49:19.970 and they decide to remain? 00:49:20.780 --> 00:49:22.320 Talk about the decision you made. 00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:24.180 CLARE GRADY: So, I very much think, Amy, 00:49:24.180 --> 00:49:26.250 that the time in jail, 00:49:26.250 --> 00:49:28.910 time in court is also part of the witness, 00:49:29.540 --> 00:49:31.510 just as much as going to Kings Bay. 00:49:32.420 --> 00:49:36.300 And so I had actually planned or intended to stay in, 00:49:37.150 --> 00:49:42.380 but my health was deteriorating. And that’s really important. 00:49:42.380 --> 00:49:45.410 The jail—we were in Camden County Jail 00:49:45.410 --> 00:49:47.460 for the first five weeks of our time, 00:49:47.460 --> 00:49:49.270 and then we were in Glynn County Jail. 00:49:49.270 --> 00:49:51.590 And I got out in the middle of July. 00:49:53.630 --> 00:49:55.500 I have low blood pressure usually, 00:49:55.500 --> 00:49:58.630 and it went—started going really high, 00:49:58.630 --> 00:50:00.850 and I thought, "I’m getting blood clots." 00:50:00.850 --> 00:50:04.220 And, like, the food was—like all jail food is. 00:50:04.220 --> 00:50:05.680 I’ve been in prison and jail. 00:50:05.680 --> 00:50:07.800 But I was feeling like I actually want 00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:09.590 to get out alive right now. And— 00:50:09.590 --> 00:50:10.840 AMY GOODMAN: And are you communicating 00:50:10.840 --> 00:50:12.470 with the other prisoners at this time? 00:50:12.470 --> 00:50:14.160 CLARE GRADY: So, we are. And yesterday we had 00:50:14.160 --> 00:50:17.960 a really sobering conversation with Mark Colville, 00:50:17.960 --> 00:50:20.810 who got out because he had a cancerous growth 00:50:20.810 --> 00:50:23.000 that developed on his nose while he was in. 00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:26.770 And I can’t say enough about the healthcare, 00:50:26.770 --> 00:50:30.670 the lack of healthcare in prison, and lack of anything. 00:50:30.670 --> 00:50:33.330 And so, Mark just reiterated all that for us 00:50:33.330 --> 00:50:34.720 on the phone yesterday 00:50:34.720 --> 00:50:37.320 in his little 15-minute call from the jail. 00:50:38.420 --> 00:50:42.050 There’s little movement, little outside, 00:50:42.050 --> 00:50:46.030 little access to a library, little—like no access 00:50:46.030 --> 00:50:48.470 to good food, even on commissary. 00:50:48.470 --> 00:50:51.450 And so, if you’re there for any extended 00:50:51.450 --> 00:50:55.950 time—and he was describing one friend who had had a stroke, 00:50:55.950 --> 00:50:58.830 and another friend who had died of a heart attack, 00:50:58.830 --> 00:51:00.580 who—people that were in their thirties. 00:51:00.580 --> 00:51:02.460 So, it can’t be said enough. 00:51:02.460 --> 00:51:06.090 And all of us, as we seek to abolish nuclear weapons, 00:51:06.090 --> 00:51:10.990 completely connect that prison abolition and jail—you know, 00:51:10.990 --> 00:51:13.460 all of this incarceration is part of the same system 00:51:13.460 --> 00:51:15.490 that we seek to abolish. So... 00:51:15.490 --> 00:51:17.460 AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask you, Patrick, 00:51:17.460 --> 00:51:20.390 about the legal strategy you’re going to use in court, 00:51:21.110 --> 00:51:23.640 the theory that you’re going to apply, 00:51:24.420 --> 00:51:27.360 using the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. 00:51:28.430 --> 00:51:30.280 Talk about your case. 00:51:31.310 --> 00:51:32.610 PATRICK O’NEILL: Well, I guess I would say 00:51:32.610 --> 00:51:34.410 it’s in a holding pattern right now. 00:51:34.410 --> 00:51:37.430 We’ve been dealing with these pretrial motions now, 00:51:38.200 --> 00:51:39.810 you know, since May. 00:51:39.810 --> 00:51:43.510 And I’d like to think that we’ve sort of flummoxed 00:51:43.510 --> 00:51:44.940 the federal government a little bit, 00:51:44.940 --> 00:51:47.030 because the Religious Freedom Restoration Act 00:51:47.030 --> 00:51:50.070 has primarily been used in administrative cases 00:51:50.070 --> 00:51:53.470 or civil cases, and not so much criminal cases, 00:51:53.470 --> 00:51:55.330 but also it has been used 00:51:55.330 --> 00:51:57.380 frequently by people on the right, 00:51:57.380 --> 00:52:01.690 to—you know, the case in which Hobby Lobby won, they used— 00:52:01.690 --> 00:52:02.930 AMY GOODMAN: Explain. 00:52:02.930 --> 00:52:06.170 PATRICK O’NEILL: Well, they were challenging—Hobby Lobby, 00:52:06.170 --> 00:52:11.570 the corporation, was challenging their—that 00:52:11.570 --> 00:52:13.540 they didn’t want to provide insurance 00:52:13.540 --> 00:52:16.360 for birth control, for example. 00:52:16.360 --> 00:52:18.310 And they used the Religious Freedom Restoration Act 00:52:18.310 --> 00:52:20.320 to say—to claim it as a religious right. 00:52:20.320 --> 00:52:22.210 And they won. 00:52:22.210 --> 00:52:23.910 But it’s also been used by others, 00:52:25.020 --> 00:52:27.810 a man who was not allowed to have a beard. 00:52:27.810 --> 00:52:29.030 He was— CLARE GRADY: In jail. 00:52:29.030 --> 00:52:30.310 PATRICK O’NEILL: —Muslim. And he won. 00:52:30.310 --> 00:52:31.510 CLARE GRADY: In jail. 00:52:31.510 --> 00:52:33.120 PATRICK O’NEILL: He was in jail, and—that’s right. 00:52:33.120 --> 00:52:34.360 Important point. 00:52:34.360 --> 00:52:37.920 And he won using the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. 00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:40.970 So it’s pretty unique now that some of our lawyers 00:52:40.970 --> 00:52:43.580 who are helping us—most of us are representing ourselves, 00:52:43.580 --> 00:52:46.610 but with standby counsel and many, many other lawyers 00:52:46.610 --> 00:52:48.960 helping to write briefs and to do this background work, 00:52:48.960 --> 00:52:51.710 a talented group of lawyers from around the country. 00:52:51.710 --> 00:52:53.070 And the idea came up: 00:52:53.070 --> 00:52:55.060 How would you guys like to look at the Religious Freedom 00:52:55.060 --> 00:52:57.230 Restoration Act, for us? 00:52:57.230 --> 00:53:03.180 So, it turned out that when we initially told the government 00:53:03.180 --> 00:53:04.880 we wanted to pursue this, 00:53:05.800 --> 00:53:07.340 they were sort of caught off guard, 00:53:07.340 --> 00:53:11.710 and didn’t do their homework. And they kind of blew it off. 00:53:11.710 --> 00:53:15.160 And what the magistrate realized was that the U.S. attorney 00:53:15.160 --> 00:53:18.810 had made a tactical mistake in not taking this seriously. 00:53:18.810 --> 00:53:21.070 In many ways, if you look at the Religious Freedom 00:53:21.070 --> 00:53:23.900 Restoration Act, it almost trumps the First Amendment. 00:53:23.900 --> 00:53:25.650 It really gives a lot of— 00:53:26.980 --> 00:53:28.670 AMY GOODMAN: How does it apply in your case? 00:53:28.670 --> 00:53:30.640 PATRICK O’NEILL: Well, it applies because the criteria 00:53:30.640 --> 00:53:33.600 is that you have to have a religious belief 00:53:33.600 --> 00:53:35.630 that is sincerely held. 00:53:35.630 --> 00:53:39.670 And you also have to show that you’ve been burdened 00:53:39.670 --> 00:53:42.400 by the government’s reaction to what you’ve done 00:53:42.400 --> 00:53:48.570 and that this burden is limiting your practice of your religion. 00:53:48.570 --> 00:53:50.690 Well, of course, as Clare mentioned, 00:53:50.690 --> 00:53:53.880 and everyone else, our whole religious symbolism 00:53:53.880 --> 00:53:55.930 going into the base was clear. 00:53:55.930 --> 00:53:58.300 It was documented in our statement. 00:53:58.300 --> 00:53:59.840 It was documented by the blood. 00:53:59.840 --> 00:54:02.420 It was documented by scripture, by the Bible, 00:54:02.420 --> 00:54:06.040 by the spray painting of the religious scripture quotes. 00:54:06.040 --> 00:54:07.340 So— 00:54:07.340 --> 00:54:08.560 AMY GOODMAN: And it was? 00:54:08.560 --> 00:54:09.770 PATRICK O’NEILL: You know, 00:54:09.770 --> 00:54:11.410 "They shall beat their swords into plowshares," 00:54:11.410 --> 00:54:13.320 like Dan Berrigan said in the previous interview. 00:54:13.320 --> 00:54:15.960 So, we really did establish a case 00:54:15.960 --> 00:54:20.550 that our religious beliefs were sincerely held. 00:54:20.550 --> 00:54:22.390 So then the government ended up 00:54:22.390 --> 00:54:25.230 having to grant us oral argument on this, 00:54:25.230 --> 00:54:29.720 in which we brought in Jeannine Hill Fletcher, 00:54:29.720 --> 00:54:31.130 a theologian at Fordham, 00:54:31.130 --> 00:54:33.440 who came all the way down to Georgia. 00:54:33.440 --> 00:54:35.330 And what was the bishop’s name? 00:54:35.330 --> 00:54:36.740 MARTHA HENNESSY: Joseph Kopacz from Jackson, Mississippi. 00:54:36.740 --> 00:54:37.950 PATRICK O’NEILL: Jackson, Mississippi. 00:54:37.950 --> 00:54:39.290 So we were able to call witnesses, 00:54:39.290 --> 00:54:41.510 which is absolutely unprecedented 00:54:41.510 --> 00:54:44.940 in the 39 years of Plowshare history, 00:54:44.940 --> 00:54:48.730 to make our case that these weapons are illegal and immoral. 00:54:48.730 --> 00:54:54.130 And the hearings were absolutely astounding in the content, 00:54:54.130 --> 00:54:56.690 because not only were our two expert witnesses able to speak, 00:54:56.690 --> 00:54:59.490 but all of us were, to speak about our religious convictions 00:54:59.490 --> 00:55:02.300 and make all the arguments that Clare just made 00:55:02.300 --> 00:55:03.980 about the immorality of these weapons. 00:55:03.980 --> 00:55:06.010 AMY GOODMAN: And where did that hearing go? 00:55:06.010 --> 00:55:08.540 PATRICK O’NEILL: Well, it went over two days in November, 00:55:08.540 --> 00:55:10.310 and we are actually still waiting 00:55:10.310 --> 00:55:11.980 for the government’s response. 00:55:11.980 --> 00:55:14.510 And one of our lawyers here in New York, 00:55:14.510 --> 00:55:17.600 Vern Walker—he’s in Westchester County—he met with us, 00:55:17.600 --> 00:55:19.400 day before yesterday, and he said, 00:55:19.400 --> 00:55:21.790 "The holy spirit has hijacked your case." 00:55:22.750 --> 00:55:24.320 But he really thinks that the government 00:55:24.320 --> 00:55:27.670 is really taking their time because they’re worried. 00:55:27.670 --> 00:55:29.980 They don’t really want a court precedent 00:55:29.980 --> 00:55:31.340 that would be in favor of us. 00:55:31.340 --> 00:55:32.540 AMY GOODMAN: And how does this, 00:55:32.540 --> 00:55:34.060 using the Religious Restoration—And how does this, 00:55:34.060 --> 00:55:37.290 using the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, 00:55:38.130 --> 00:55:41.020 relate to what’s often used, Martha Hennessy, 00:55:41.020 --> 00:55:43.080 and that is the necessity defense? 00:55:43.080 --> 00:55:45.080 And explain what that is. 00:55:45.080 --> 00:55:46.770 MARTHA HENNESSY: Well, the necessity defense 00:55:46.770 --> 00:55:49.760 has been something that the Plowshares Movement 00:55:49.760 --> 00:55:51.960 has attempted to use all of these decades, 00:55:51.960 --> 00:55:54.520 and has essentially been stripped of that, 00:55:54.520 --> 00:55:57.680 that if you are walking past a burning house 00:55:57.680 --> 00:55:59.020 and there’s a child inside, 00:55:59.020 --> 00:56:02.630 you have the right to break down the door and rescue the child. 00:56:02.630 --> 00:56:04.610 And so, we would like to bring forth, 00:56:04.610 --> 00:56:07.720 to the federal courts, expert testimony 00:56:07.720 --> 00:56:10.810 to show that the necessity defense 00:56:10.810 --> 00:56:13.010 and the international law defense 00:56:13.010 --> 00:56:14.710 are relevant in this case. 00:56:14.710 --> 00:56:18.460 And that has been obstructed for the past 36 years. 00:56:18.460 --> 00:56:23.110 We need expert testimony on the legality of the nuclear weapons. 00:56:23.110 --> 00:56:25.130 AMY GOODMAN: How much time do you face in jail? 00:56:26.850 --> 00:56:30.360 MARTHA HENNESSY: Oh, they say that the counts against us 00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:34.290 are good for 10 years each—depredation of property, 00:56:34.290 --> 00:56:36.920 destruction of property, conspiracy. 00:56:36.920 --> 00:56:39.680 And then, of course, the misdemeanor of trespass, 00:56:39.680 --> 00:56:41.380 which is up to six months. 00:56:42.720 --> 00:56:45.010 AMY GOODMAN: So, the number of years you’re all facing? 00:56:46.000 --> 00:56:48.290 CLARE GRADY: I think it was 25, is how I remember. 00:56:49.650 --> 00:56:52.040 AMY GOODMAN: And are you prepared to serve years in jail? 00:56:52.700 --> 00:56:53.930 MARTHA HENNESSY: I’m 63. 00:56:53.930 --> 00:56:57.710 I am facing maybe 20 years left of my life. 00:56:58.310 --> 00:57:04.120 And this is all—my personal life is irrelevant 00:57:05.360 --> 00:57:07.220 compared to the creation of God being destroyed. 00:57:07.220 --> 00:57:08.420 So... 00:57:08.420 --> 00:57:09.770 CLARE GRADY: The weapons of empire 00:57:09.770 --> 00:57:13.070 are always the threat of death 00:57:13.070 --> 00:57:17.600 and torture and incarceration and dehumanization. 00:57:17.600 --> 00:57:21.580 And so, when we undertake this, as white people of privilege, 00:57:22.400 --> 00:57:26.180 we are just adding a little tiny bit 00:57:26.180 --> 00:57:30.010 to what is ongoing of the struggle of people, 00:57:30.010 --> 00:57:33.850 where the Doomsday Clock has already hit midnight for them 00:57:35.290 --> 00:57:41.020 and their children and their grandchildren 00:57:42.110 --> 00:57:44.060 and the Earth where they live. 00:57:44.670 --> 00:57:48.140 But I think that what we want to do, 00:57:48.140 --> 00:57:50.310 or I want to do and we want to do, 00:57:50.310 --> 00:57:55.210 is be invitational to other people with similar privilege 00:57:55.210 --> 00:57:57.930 to say that we enjoy 00:57:57.930 --> 00:58:00.390 these privileges—we’re not really enjoying it; 00:58:00.390 --> 00:58:02.370 there’s just tremendous cost that comes 00:58:02.370 --> 00:58:07.170 with all this—but that in stepping over that line 00:58:07.170 --> 00:58:10.930 and taking that hammer and actually hammering a dent 00:58:10.930 --> 00:58:13.270 in some of these weapons system, 00:58:13.270 --> 00:58:16.830 that they give you this 25-year threat, 00:58:17.490 --> 00:58:20.120 but you don’t know what the outcome is, 00:58:20.120 --> 00:58:24.280 and that the whole process is to encourage each other 00:58:24.280 --> 00:58:25.980 to walk in love and not fear. 00:58:26.580 --> 00:58:29.240 AMY GOODMAN: Clare Grady of the Kings Bay Plowshares 7, 00:58:29.240 --> 00:58:31.070 along with Patrick O’Neill, Carmen Trotta 00:58:31.070 --> 00:58:33.350 and Martha Hennessy, whose grandmother, 00:58:33.350 --> 00:58:35.300 Catholic Worker co-founder Dorothy Day, 00:58:35.300 --> 00:58:37.010 is being considered for sainthood 00:58:37.010 --> 00:58:38.540 by the Catholic Church. 00:58:38.540 --> 00:58:41.710 The Kings Bay Plowshares 7 face up to 25 years in prison 00:58:41.710 --> 00:58:43.820 for entering a U.S. nuclear submarine base 00:58:43.820 --> 00:58:45.240 last year in Georgia. 00:58:45.240 --> 00:58:47.840 Three of their co-defendants remain in jail. 00:58:47.840 --> 00:58:49.320 The Nobel Peace Prize-winning 00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:51.320 South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu, 00:58:51.320 --> 00:58:52.850 Daniel Ellsberg, Noam Chomsky 00:58:52.850 --> 00:58:55.430 and others have just backed a global call for charges 00:58:55.430 --> 00:58:57.130 to be dropped against them.