WEBVTT

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From New York,
this is Democracy Now!

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Eliot Engel — and I’ll say
his name once —

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used to say that he was a thorn
in the side of Donald Trump.

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But you know what Donald Trump
is more afraid

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of than anything else?
A Black man with power.

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In what could turn out to be
a major political upset,

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Jamaal Bowman, a Black middle
school teacher from the Bronx,

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takes a strong lead
over Eliot Engel,

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chair of the House Committee
on Foreign Affairs,

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in the Democratic primary.

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We’ll air a part of
Bowman’s speech last night.

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Then we speak to Palestinian
American legal scholar Noura

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Erakat about Israel’s plan
to annex the West Bank

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and the death of her cousin.

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He was shot to death
Tuesday by Israeli

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forces at a West Bank
checkpoint.

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We’ll also talk to former
NBA center Etan Thomas

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about how the Black Lives
Matter protests

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are changing
professional sports.

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And we’ll look at how
coronavirus is rapidly

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spreading through California’s
overcrowded prisons,

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including San Quentin.

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All that and more, coming up.

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Welcome to Democracy Now!,
democracynow.org,

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The Quarantine Report.
I’m Amy Goodman.

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Top infectious disease
expert Dr. Anthony Fauci

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told Congress Tuesday
that parts of the United States

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are facing a "disturbing surge"
in coronavirus infections,

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warning the virus
is not yet under control.

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Dr. Fauci was testifying
to the House Energy

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and Commerce Committee.

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Dr. Anthony Fauci:

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"Right now the next
couple of weeks

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are going to be
critical in our ability

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to address those surgings
that we’re seeing in Florida,

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in Texas, in Arizona
and in other states.

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They’re not the only ones
that are having a difficulty.

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Bottom line, Mr Chairman:
It’s a mixed bag —

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some good and some now
we have a problem with."

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Dr. Fauci’s remarks came as
the confirmed U.S. death

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toll from COVID-19
topped more than 121,000 —

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though he acknowledged
the official figure

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is likely
a significant undercount.

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His testimony came as
Trump contradicted

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claims by his press secretary
that he was

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"kidding" when he said
he had urged

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White House officials to
slow down coronavirus testing.

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This is Trump being questioned
by CBS’s Weijia Jiang.

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Weijia Jiang: "Mr. President,
at that rally,

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when you said you asked your
people to slow down testing,

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were you just kidding,

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or do you have a plan
to slow down testing?"

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President Donald Trump:
"I don’t kid.

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Let me just tell you.
Let me make it clear."

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The White House is set to end
federal support for coronavirus

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testing at the end of the month.
In Texas, lawmakers are warning

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of "catastrophic cascading
consequences"

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if Trump follows through
on his plans,

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which would end diagnostic
testing at seven sites

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that screen hundreds
of people a day.

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Global confirmed coronavirus
cases have topped 9.2 million,

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with nearly half a million
deaths from COVID-19.

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Latin America’s
regional death

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toll officially surpassed
100,000 Tuesday.

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In Brazil, a judge has ordered
far-right

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President Jair Bolsonaro
to wear a mask in public,

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or he’ll face a fine
of nearly $400 per violation.

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This comes as Bolsonaro
continues to attend

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massive political rallies
across Brazil,

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which recorded nearly 40,000
new cases Tuesday —

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the worst infection rate
in the world.

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This comes as Mexican
health officials

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announced a daily record

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of over 4,500
new coronavirus infections.

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The European Union is preparing
to reopen its borders

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to travelers
from dozens of countries,

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except for people traveling
from the United States,

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who may be barred
due to the country’s

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high rates of infection.
In the Middle East,

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Saudi Arabia announced it
will bar travelers from abroad

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who were planning to attend
the hajj this year

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amid the pandemic,

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marking the first time
in modern history Muslims

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from around the world
will not be allowed

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to make
the annual pilgrimage to Mecca.

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Voters went to the polls
Tuesday in New York,

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Kentucky, Virginia and other
states for primary elections

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marred by long lines
and fears over the coronavirus.

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In Kentucky, officials slashed
the number of polling places

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from 3,700 to just 170 —
a 95% reduction.

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In Louisville,
which has Kentucky’s largest

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African American population,

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just one polling place was open:
the Kentucky Exposition Center.

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At 6 p.m., officials
locked the building,

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even as up to 200 voters
were stuck in traffic

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waiting to find parking spots.
In a dramatic scene,

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scores of people
banged on doors and windows

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demanding the right to vote.

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They were allowed inside
just before 6:30,

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after a judge ordered
a half-hour reprieve.

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Mother: "We need justice.
We need peace.

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We all need to come together.
We should love one another.

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We shouldn’t have to go
through all this.

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I got a daughter right here.
She’s 18 years old."

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Daughter: "Eighteen."

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Mother:
"She’s a first-time voter."

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Daughter: "In my very first."

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Senate Majority Leader
Mitch McConnell

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easily won the Republican
Party’s nomination in Kentucky.

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His Democratic challenger
will be either progressive state

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Representative Charles Booker
or former Marine fighter pilot

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Amy McGrath.

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McGrath has an eight-point
lead over Booker

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with about half
of precincts reporting,

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though a large number
of absentee ballots

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remain to be counted,

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and final results aren’t
expected until at least June 30.

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Here in New York,
former middle school principal

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Jamaal Bowman
has taken a large lead

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for the Democratic
Party’s nomination

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for the 16th
Congressional District

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in Westchester County
and the Bronx

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over 16-term
Congressmember Eliot Engel,

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the powerful chair of the House
Foreign Affairs Committee.

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Bowman is running
on a Green New Deal,

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Medicare for All platform,
and recently joined protests

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demanding an end to racism
and police brutality.

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In New York’s 14th
Congressional District,

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democratic socialist
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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fended off a challenge
by former CNBC

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anchor Michelle Caruso-Cabrera,

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winning the Democratic Party’s
nomination in a landslide.

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On Tuesday, President Trump
traveled to Arizona,

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where he toured a section
of newly built border wall,

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claiming the concrete and metal
structure had "stopped COVID."

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Trump’s claim came
as Arizona confirmed

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3,600 new coronavirus
infections on Tuesday —

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a daily record.
Hospitalizations topped 2,000 —

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also a record — with intensive
care units now at 85% capacity.

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Trump later held
his second campaign event

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since the start of the pandemic,
speaking to 3,000 students

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in a packed megachurch
in Phoenix.

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Few of the students
wore masks,

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and none of them
practiced social distancing,

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raising fears the Trump
rally could be

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another coronavirus
"superspreader" event.

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During his remarks,
President Trump drew cheers

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when he mocked COVID-19

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and repeated a racist nickname
for the disease.

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President Donald Trump:
"Kung flu, yeah. Kung flu."

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On Tuesday, Twitter flagged
another Trump tweet

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for violating its policy
prohibiting abusive

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or violent language,
after Trump wrote,

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"There will never be an
'Autonomous Zone' in Washington,

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D.C., as long as
I’m your President.

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If they try they will be met
with serious force!"

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Protests against police
brutality and racism

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are continuing
across the country.

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In Washington, D.C.,

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police in riot gear
violently cleared

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a small protest encampment
near the White House on Tuesday.

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In Richmond, Virginia, 12 people
were arrested as they attempted

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to set up a protest encampment
outside Richmond City Hall.

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Officers used tear gas,
pepper spray and flashbangs

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to break up the protest.

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Meanwhile, in Oakland,
California,

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dozens of students
rallied on Tuesday

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to push the school district
to remove police officers

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from the city’s schools.

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This is Jessica Black, director
of the Black Organizing Project.

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Jessica Black:

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"Children don’t need to be
criminalized for being children.

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Schools were supposed
to be places

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where children can learn
social skills —

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schools and community.
So what we’re really pushing

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is we’re pushing
the institution of policing out,

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and we’re saying
bring community in."

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In Kentucky, the Louisville
Metro Police Department

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said Tuesday it
has fired Brett Hankison,

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more than three months
after he shot Breonna Taylor

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to death
inside her own apartment.

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Officer Brett

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Hankison will have 10 days
to appeal his termination.

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None of the officers
involved in Breonna

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Taylor’s killing
have been charged with a crime.

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The Center for
Constitutional Rights

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and a coalition of other
civil rights organizations

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are calling on
federal prosecutors

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to release on bail two

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New York attorneys
who are accused of throwing

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Molotov cocktails
into an empty

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New York police car
during protests in Brooklyn

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on May 30.

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The lawyers — Colinford
Mattis and Urooj Rahman

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— are facing a minimum
of 45 years in prison

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if convicted
on the federal charges.

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The two were initially
released on bail,

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but then the federal government
challenged the bail conditions,

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sending them back
to pretrial detention —

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a move that shocked many
in the legal community

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since neither Mattis nor Rahman
have a criminal history.

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A group of over 50
former federal prosecutors

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have also signed a letter

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opposing the government’s
handling of the case.

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In the occupied West Bank,

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Israeli officers shot
and killed a Palestinian man

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Tuesday at a checkpoint
east of Jerusalem

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as he was on his way
to pick up his sister,

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who was set to be
married that same day.

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Disturbing video from the scene
shows 27-year-old Ahmed

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Erekat bleeding but still alive
on the street where he was shot.

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He is the nephew of senior
Palestinian official Saeb

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Erekat, who says Israeli
Prime Minister

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Benjamin Netanyahu
was responsible for the death.

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Later in the broadcast,
we’ll speak with Palestinian

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human rights attorney
and legal scholar Noura

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Erakat, who is Ahmed
Erekat’s cousin.

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In news from Egypt,
plainclothes security forces

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abducted 26-year-old activist
Sanaa

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Seif on Tuesday.
The abduction occurred outside

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the public prosecutor’s office
in Cairo.

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Seif was attempting to file
a complaint

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about being violently
assaulted along with her sister

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and mother on Monday
outside the Tora prison complex

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where her brother,
the political prisoner

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Alaa Abd
El-Fattah, is jailed.

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In Mexico, a 7.4
magnitude earthquake

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hit the southern state
of Oaxaca Tuesday,

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killing at least five people
and triggering a tsunami warning

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in several Pacific coastal
areas across Mexico

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and Central America.

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At least two hospitals in Oaxaca
treating COVID-19 patients

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were among those
reporting damages.

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The powerful earthquake was felt
in several other states,

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including in Mexico City,

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where residents were forced
onto the streets as buildings

00:11:15.060 --> 00:11:18.270
and power lines rattled
and seismic alarms went off.

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Smaller tremors
were felt in Guatemala,

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Honduras and El Salvador.

00:11:23.050 --> 00:11:24.860
In health news,
Johnson & Johnson

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has been ordered
to pay $2.1 billion

00:11:28.660 --> 00:11:31.550
to a group of women
who developed ovarian cancer

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after using talcum products
contaminated with asbestos.

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In its ruling,
the Eastern District Missouri

00:11:37.650 --> 00:11:40.020
Court of Appeals said
Johnson & Johnson had

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"engaged in conduct
that was outrageous

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because of evil motive
or reckless indifference."

00:11:45.790 --> 00:11:48.460
But the appeals court
did reduce the verdict amount,

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which had been $4.7 billion.

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Johnson & Johnson
recently stopped

00:11:53.530 --> 00:11:55.330
selling its brand
of talcum powder

00:11:55.330 --> 00:11:57.150
in the United States
and Canada,

00:11:57.150 --> 00:12:00.360
but it is continuing to sell
the products overseas.

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In election news, Democratic
presidential candidate Joe Biden

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and former
President Barack Obama

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raised over $11 million Tuesday

00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:10.540
in their first fundraiser
together since Obama endorsed

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his former running mate
for president in April.

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In Charleston, South Carolina,

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the city has begun
removing a statue

00:12:17.500 --> 00:12:19.790
of former
Vice President John Calhoun,

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who was a staunch advocate
of slavery

00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:23.350
and a slaveholder himself.

00:12:23.350 --> 00:12:25.730
The Charleston City Council
voted unanimously

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to remove the monument
on Tuesday night

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after the 115-foot-high statue

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was repeatedly targeted
by protesters.

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The monument is located
in Marion Square,

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a block from
the Mother Emanuel AME Church

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where nine
African American worshipers

00:12:42.310 --> 00:12:46.900
were gunned down in 2015 by
white supremacist Dylann Roof.

00:12:47.690 --> 00:12:50.390
In Mississippi, college
football star running back

00:12:50.390 --> 00:12:54.080
Kylin Hill said Monday
he’ll refuse to play next season

00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:56.940
unless Mississippi
abandons its state flag,

00:12:56.940 --> 00:12:59.040
which features
the Confederate battle flag

00:12:59.040 --> 00:13:01.700
as part of its design.
Hill tweeted,

00:13:01.700 --> 00:13:04.560
"Either change the flag or I
won’t be representing this State

00:13:04.560 --> 00:13:07.450
anymore & I meant that ..
I’m tired."

00:13:09.610 --> 00:13:12.390
In Atlanta, Rayshard Brooks
was laid to rest

00:13:12.390 --> 00:13:15.240
Tuesday, 11 days after
he was shot twice in the back

00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:17.080
and killed by an Atlanta
police officer

00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:18.890
outside a Wendy’s restaurant.

00:13:18.890 --> 00:13:21.370
His killing sparked an uprising
against racism

00:13:21.370 --> 00:13:22.680
and police brutality

00:13:22.680 --> 00:13:24.570
that culminated
in the arrest of officer

00:13:24.570 --> 00:13:26.980
Garrett Rolfe
on felony murder charges.

00:13:26.980 --> 00:13:28.940
Brooks was honored
by friends and family

00:13:28.940 --> 00:13:30.800
who gathered at
the historic Ebenezer

00:13:30.800 --> 00:13:32.780
Baptist Church
for his funeral.

00:13:32.780 --> 00:13:35.210
Reverend Bernice King
delivered the eulogy.

00:13:35.210 --> 00:13:36.440
Rev. Bernice King:

00:13:36.440 --> 00:13:39.070
"My daddy, Martin Luther
King Jr.,

00:13:39.070 --> 00:13:41.520
who taught us
that true peace

00:13:41.520 --> 00:13:44.320
is not merely
the absence of tension,

00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:47.390
but it is the presence
of justice,

00:13:47.390 --> 00:13:50.800
therefore there can be
no peace in Atlanta,

00:13:50.800 --> 00:13:55.800
nor anywhere in our nation,
where there is no justice.

00:13:55.800 --> 00:13:58.830
No justice, no peace."

00:13:58.830 --> 00:14:00.850
Immediately after the funeral
wrapped up,

00:14:00.850 --> 00:14:03.330
Atlanta police announced
the arrest of Natalie White,

00:14:03.330 --> 00:14:06.650
a 29-year-old who was reportedly
close to Rayshard Brooks.

00:14:06.650 --> 00:14:08.720
She faces charges
of first-degree arson

00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:10.530
for allegedly
helping to set a fire

00:14:10.530 --> 00:14:12.440
that consumed
the Wendy’s restaurant

00:14:12.440 --> 00:14:15.570
where Brooks was shot dead
by police on June 12.

00:14:16.350 --> 00:14:18.540
And those are some of the
headlines this is Democracy

00:14:18.540 --> 00:14:21.780
Now, Democracynow.org,
the War and Peace Report.

00:14:21.780 --> 00:14:23.070
I’m Amy Goodman.

00:14:23.070 --> 00:14:24.810
AMY GOODMAN: We begin today’s
show here in New York,

00:14:24.810 --> 00:14:26.060
where Jamaal Bowman,

00:14:26.060 --> 00:14:28.580
an African American
former middle school principal,

00:14:28.580 --> 00:14:29.900
appears headed to pull off

00:14:29.900 --> 00:14:32.470
one of the biggest
political upsets of the year.

00:14:32.470 --> 00:14:34.200
Though the race
has not yet been called,

00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:37.140
Bowman is leading
by 25 percentage points

00:14:37.140 --> 00:14:40.100
over 16-term
Congressmember Eliot Engel,

00:14:40.100 --> 00:14:42.510
the powerful chair of the House
Foreign Affairs Committee,

00:14:42.510 --> 00:14:45.440
in the Democratic primary for
the 16th Congressional District

00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:47.410
in Westchester County
and the Bronx.

00:14:47.410 --> 00:14:49.450
The Associated Press
reports 92%

00:14:49.450 --> 00:14:51.580
or precincts
have reported results,

00:14:51.580 --> 00:14:53.600
but it’s not clear
how many absentee ballots

00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:55.060
still need to be counted.

00:14:55.060 --> 00:14:56.950
Jamaal Bowman ran on
a Green New Deal,

00:14:56.950 --> 00:14:59.600
Medicare for All platform
and joined recent protests

00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:02.460
demanding an end to racism
and police brutality.

00:15:02.460 --> 00:15:05.020
He spoke at a campaign party
late Tuesday.

00:15:06.030 --> 00:15:07.730
JAMAAL BOWMAN: I’m a Black man
in America,

00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:10.410
you know,
raised by a single mom,

00:15:10.410 --> 00:15:13.070
you know, spent some time
in the housing projects,

00:15:13.070 --> 00:15:15.560
lived in rent-stabilized
apartments,

00:15:15.560 --> 00:15:18.130
went to public schools
my entire life,

00:15:18.130 --> 00:15:20.700
grew up during
the crack cocaine epidemic,

00:15:20.700 --> 00:15:24.000
which hurt and ravaged
many parts of my family,

00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:26.510
as well as my friends’
families, as well.

00:15:26.510 --> 00:15:28.240
You know, my best friend,
who’s here tonight,

00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:30.390
I’ll never forget the night
he called me,

00:15:30.390 --> 00:15:32.550
when I was out
partying at a club,

00:15:32.550 --> 00:15:34.750
and told me his brother
was shot and killed.

00:15:35.490 --> 00:15:38.770
And at a very young age
as a Black man in America,

00:15:38.770 --> 00:15:43.870
you get to learn about death
and homicide and suicide,

00:15:43.870 --> 00:15:46.330
and how it impacts
not just you individually,

00:15:46.330 --> 00:15:49.580
but your community
and the rest of the country.

00:15:49.580 --> 00:15:51.660
And it was these experiences
that led me

00:15:51.660 --> 00:15:54.420
to being an educator
in the first place.

00:15:54.420 --> 00:15:57.750
And I served in that role
as an educator with pride

00:15:57.750 --> 00:15:59.650
and passion and dignity,

00:15:59.650 --> 00:16:02.460
and tried my best
to do everything I could

00:16:02.460 --> 00:16:04.380
to uplift
the lives of every child

00:16:04.380 --> 00:16:06.870
that I taught
and every child that I served,

00:16:06.870 --> 00:16:09.840
and to do everything I could
to make sure families

00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:12.200
had what they needed
and that they understood

00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:14.860
and leveraged the power
of their voices.

00:16:14.860 --> 00:16:18.430
Unfortunately, as we all know,
we live in a country where,

00:16:18.430 --> 00:16:20.740
despite our financial wealth,

00:16:20.740 --> 00:16:22.480
we have tens of millions
of children

00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:25.620
still living in poverty.
And as an educator

00:16:25.620 --> 00:16:28.730
working for the Department
of Education for 20 years,

00:16:28.730 --> 00:16:30.440
I’ve seen the impact
of poverty

00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:32.860
on the lives of our kids
each and every day.

00:16:32.860 --> 00:16:35.760
And poverty is not
a result of children

00:16:35.760 --> 00:16:37.460
and families
who don’t work hard.

00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:41.240
Our children and families work
as hard as anyone else.

00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:46.600
Poverty is by political design,
and it’s rooted in a system

00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:50.800
that has been fractured
and corrupt and rotten

00:16:50.800 --> 00:16:54.090
from its core
from the inception of America,

00:16:54.670 --> 00:16:58.090
especially over the last
several decades.

00:16:58.090 --> 00:17:02.490
So, poverty and the impact
of poverty on our children,

00:17:02.490 --> 00:17:05.450
and dealing with issues
of institutional racism

00:17:05.450 --> 00:17:09.230
and sexism and classism
and xenophobia

00:17:09.230 --> 00:17:13.440
and everything that keeps
the majority of us oppressed,

00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:17.010
is what we designed
this campaign to fight against.

00:17:17.010 --> 00:17:19.130
So, tonight,
as we celebrate,

00:17:19.130 --> 00:17:21.810
we don’t just celebrate me
as an individual.

00:17:21.810 --> 00:17:23.510
We celebrate this movement,

00:17:24.040 --> 00:17:28.020
a movement designed to push back
against a system

00:17:28.020 --> 00:17:30.080
that’s literally killing us.

00:17:30.080 --> 00:17:33.250
It’s killing Black and Brown
bodies disproportionately,

00:17:33.250 --> 00:17:35.280
but it’s killing
all of us. ...

00:17:35.280 --> 00:17:38.140
Eliot Engel —
and I’ll say his name once —

00:17:38.140 --> 00:17:41.630
used to say that he was a thorn
in the side of Donald Trump.

00:17:41.630 --> 00:17:42.840
But you know what Donald Trump

00:17:42.840 --> 00:17:45.160
is more afraid of
than anything else?

00:17:46.190 --> 00:17:47.900
A Black man with power.

00:17:49.290 --> 00:17:51.290
That is what Donald Trump
is afraid of.

00:17:52.080 --> 00:17:55.620
So, if the results continue
to bear out

00:17:55.620 --> 00:17:57.430
as they are bearing out
this evening

00:17:57.990 --> 00:18:01.080
and we get to Congress,

00:18:01.080 --> 00:18:05.210
it will be our job
to hold Donald Trump accountable

00:18:05.210 --> 00:18:08.330
and to hold every
elected official accountable

00:18:08.330 --> 00:18:11.260
that continues to be beholden
to corporate interests,

00:18:11.260 --> 00:18:13.760
that continues to be beholden
to the wealthy

00:18:13.760 --> 00:18:15.740
and is not fighting
for the poor

00:18:15.740 --> 00:18:18.850
and is not fighting for the
working class in our country,

00:18:18.850 --> 00:18:21.520
because, America,
if we are truly powerful,

00:18:22.030 --> 00:18:26.760
we should use that power to
create peace all over the world,

00:18:26.760 --> 00:18:30.740
to become a humanitarian
leader on this planet

00:18:30.740 --> 00:18:34.680
and to make sure
we have housing and jobs

00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:38.240
and fully funded schools
and infrastructure

00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:42.390
and healthcare that’s exemplary
and humane immigration reform

00:18:43.040 --> 00:18:46.390
and a humane
restorative justice system

00:18:46.390 --> 00:18:48.730
that reinvests in communities

00:18:48.730 --> 00:18:51.060
that have been
historically neglected.

00:18:51.060 --> 00:18:53.540
AMY GOODMAN: Jamaal Bowman,
speaking last night,

00:18:53.540 --> 00:18:56.160
a Black middle school
principal from the Bronx

00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:58.250
who’s taken
a strong lead

00:18:58.250 --> 00:19:01.950
over 16-term
Congressmember Eliot Engel,

00:19:01.950 --> 00:19:04.480
chair of the House Committee
on Foreign Affairs,

00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:08.010
in the Democratic primary
for 16th Congressional District

00:19:08.010 --> 00:19:10.110
in Westchester County
and the Bronx.

00:19:11.280 --> 00:19:13.500
To see our interview
with Jamaal Bowman,

00:19:13.500 --> 00:19:15.940
you can go to democracynow.org.

00:19:15.940 --> 00:19:17.300
This is Democracy Now!

00:19:17.300 --> 00:19:21.350
When we come back,
a Palestinian man is gunned down

00:19:21.350 --> 00:19:24.630
by the Israeli military
in the West Bank.

00:19:24.630 --> 00:19:26.300
We’ll speak to his cousin,

00:19:26.300 --> 00:19:29.210
the well-known scholar
Noura Erakat.

00:19:29.210 --> 00:19:30.910
Stay with

00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:26.140
us.

00:20:33.980 --> 00:20:37.140
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy
Now!, democracynow.org,

00:20:37.140 --> 00:20:40.540
The Quarantine Report.
I’m Amy Goodman in New York.

00:20:40.540 --> 00:20:44.040
Juan González joins us
from New Brunswick, New Jersey,

00:20:44.040 --> 00:20:46.240
from his home during this time
of the coronavirus.

00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:47.530
Hi, Juan.

00:20:47.530 --> 00:20:48.810
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Hi, Amy.

00:20:48.810 --> 00:20:50.800
And welcome to all
of our listeners and viewers

00:20:50.800 --> 00:20:52.800
across the country
and around the world.

00:20:53.330 --> 00:20:55.730
AMY GOODMAN: Well, we’re going
to begin today in Israel

00:20:55.730 --> 00:20:58.870
and the West Bank.
Israeli officers on Tuesday

00:20:58.870 --> 00:21:02.190
shot dead a Palestinian man
at a checkpoint

00:21:02.190 --> 00:21:04.200
in the occupied West Bank

00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:06.990
as he was on his way
to pick up his sister,

00:21:06.990 --> 00:21:09.670
who was set to be married
last night.

00:21:10.190 --> 00:21:11.750
A warning to our viewers:

00:21:11.750 --> 00:21:14.350
This story contains
graphic footage.

00:21:15.060 --> 00:21:18.690
The video from the scene
shows 27-year-old Ahmed

00:21:18.690 --> 00:21:22.900
Erekat bleeding, but still alive
on the street where he was shot.

00:21:23.420 --> 00:21:26.220
He’s the nephew of senior
Palestinian official Saeb

00:21:26.220 --> 00:21:27.990
Erekat, the secretary general

00:21:27.990 --> 00:21:30.430
of the Palestine
Liberation Organization,

00:21:30.430 --> 00:21:33.850
who said his nephew was, quote,
"murdered in cold blood,"

00:21:34.450 --> 00:21:36.930
and wrote in a tweet
that Israeli Prime Minister

00:21:36.930 --> 00:21:40.090
Benjamin Netanyahu
is responsible for his death.

00:21:40.830 --> 00:21:43.120
Ahmed Erekat’s family said
he was killed

00:21:43.120 --> 00:21:45.230
while on his way
to a beauty salon

00:21:45.230 --> 00:21:47.320
to pick up his sister
and his mother,

00:21:47.850 --> 00:21:49.540
but Israeli authorities claim

00:21:49.540 --> 00:21:52.630
he tried to run
over an officer at a checkpoint

00:21:52.630 --> 00:21:54.400
in the Palestinian village
of Abu

00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:56.370
Dis, east of Jerusalem.

00:21:56.960 --> 00:21:59.310
His family rejects
the allegations,

00:21:59.310 --> 00:22:01.130
is calling
for Israeli authorities

00:22:01.130 --> 00:22:03.180
to release security footage.

00:22:03.700 --> 00:22:07.110
Ahmed himself was also due
to be married soon.

00:22:07.790 --> 00:22:11.360
His killing comes nearly a month
after another Palestinian man

00:22:11.360 --> 00:22:14.140
was killed in similar
circumstances near Ramallah,

00:22:14.140 --> 00:22:15.770
also in the West Bank,

00:22:15.770 --> 00:22:18.190
and as Netanyahu plans
to start annexing

00:22:18.190 --> 00:22:21.070
nearly a third of the occupied
West Bank next month.

00:22:21.760 --> 00:22:25.570
For more, we’re joined by Ahmed
Erekat’s cousin, Noura

00:22:25.570 --> 00:22:28.550
Erakat, who’s a Palestinian
human rights attorney

00:22:28.550 --> 00:22:30.730
and legal scholar,
assistant professor

00:22:30.730 --> 00:22:33.590
at Rutgers University,
author of Justice for

00:22:33.590 --> 00:22:36.290
Some: Law and the
Question of Palestine.

00:22:36.930 --> 00:22:41.010
Noura, our condolences
to you and your family.

00:22:41.010 --> 00:22:43.920
This is such
a terrible time for you.

00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:46.860
We so deeply appreciate
you’re able to join us.

00:22:46.860 --> 00:22:50.540
This is just hours
after your cousin was killed.

00:22:50.540 --> 00:22:53.260
Can you describe
the circumstances

00:22:53.260 --> 00:22:55.310
under which you understand
he died?

00:22:56.830 --> 00:22:58.160
NOURA ERAKAT: Thank you, Amy.

00:22:58.160 --> 00:22:59.670
Thank you, Juan,
and to the viewers.

00:22:59.670 --> 00:23:01.970
I haven’t had a chance
to speak to his parents,

00:23:01.970 --> 00:23:03.670
so I want to start out
by saying

00:23:04.700 --> 00:23:14.650
[speaking Arabic].

00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:18.740
We understand the circumstances
to be what people know.

00:23:18.740 --> 00:23:22.360
Ahmed was on his way,
from Abu Dis to Bethlehem,

00:23:22.360 --> 00:23:26.830
to pick up his sister from
a hair salon for her wedding.

00:23:27.390 --> 00:23:29.450
Her mom was there with her.

00:23:29.450 --> 00:23:31.860
You know, on the way
to the hair salon,

00:23:31.860 --> 00:23:33.780
he passed through
a checkpoint

00:23:34.650 --> 00:23:36.530
separating Bethlehem
from Abu Dis

00:23:36.530 --> 00:23:39.830
through a known roadway,
back roadway,

00:23:40.490 --> 00:23:45.080
a dangerous one known
as Wadi Nar, or Valley of Fire.

00:23:45.080 --> 00:23:51.340
There is a steep decline between
this checkpoint on the road.

00:23:51.340 --> 00:23:56.980
And what we understand is that
Ahmed lost control of his car

00:23:56.980 --> 00:23:59.410
or was confused
while he was in his car.

00:23:59.920 --> 00:24:02.780
That was all it took
to have a knee-jerk reaction,

00:24:02.780 --> 00:24:06.910
for the car to jerk a little bit
and immediately to cause

00:24:06.910 --> 00:24:11.410
the soldiers to open fire
on him multiple times.

00:24:11.410 --> 00:24:13.680
Note that these soldiers,

00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:16.810
who are fully armed
at this checkpoint,

00:24:16.810 --> 00:24:21.870
are behind barriers, are not
actually out in the open,

00:24:22.860 --> 00:24:27.460
and then left Ahmed to bleed
for one-and-a-half hours.

00:24:27.460 --> 00:24:31.490
We also understand
that his father, Abu Faisal,

00:24:31.490 --> 00:24:34.940
was there pleading
with the Israeli soldiers

00:24:34.940 --> 00:24:36.700
to let him access his son.

00:24:36.700 --> 00:24:39.390
We also know that
the Palestinian Red Crescent,

00:24:39.390 --> 00:24:43.050
the equivalent of the Red Cross,
was not allowed access.

00:24:43.050 --> 00:24:44.780
And for one-and-a-half hours,

00:24:44.780 --> 00:24:47.920
as you saw in that
inexplicable video,

00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:51.810
Ahmed was left writhing
and bleeding out,

00:24:51.810 --> 00:24:53.900
without the ability
to care for him.

00:24:54.740 --> 00:24:58.990
And what is very obvious
is the ease

00:24:58.990 --> 00:25:01.790
and the callousness
with which this happened,

00:25:01.790 --> 00:25:04.420
the way that it’s normalized
completely.

00:25:04.420 --> 00:25:06.730
And there’s a Palestinian —
there’s a line,

00:25:06.730 --> 00:25:08.730
a queue,
of Palestinian cars.

00:25:08.730 --> 00:25:11.900
And the one filming
this was praying over Ahmed

00:25:11.900 --> 00:25:13.480
as he’s dying.

00:25:13.480 --> 00:25:16.020
It should remind us
that even those Palestinians

00:25:16.020 --> 00:25:17.280
who are bearing witness to this

00:25:17.280 --> 00:25:20.220
are subject to a state
of forced helplessness.

00:25:20.220 --> 00:25:23.730
They are not even allowed
to help Ahmed in that moment.

00:25:24.350 --> 00:25:25.730
I want to just bring up
something,

00:25:25.730 --> 00:25:27.840
Amy, to the audience
before I address

00:25:27.840 --> 00:25:31.680
Israel’s vicious, dangerous
and disgusting allegations

00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:33.250
that this was a car ramming,

00:25:33.250 --> 00:25:35.280
and raise three questions
for the audience

00:25:35.280 --> 00:25:37.050
that’s paying attention
right now.

00:25:37.050 --> 00:25:40.910
Right now, one, why is Abu Dis,

00:25:40.910 --> 00:25:43.470
where Ahmed
and my family is from,

00:25:43.470 --> 00:25:47.090
so severely underdeveloped
that he has to travel outside

00:25:47.090 --> 00:25:48.830
to one of the big
Palestinian cities

00:25:48.830 --> 00:25:52.140
in order to get his sisters
from a hair salon?

00:25:52.140 --> 00:25:54.180
What is the cause
of that underdevelopment?

00:25:54.180 --> 00:25:56.460
Number two, I want to ask
the audience

00:25:56.460 --> 00:25:59.210
to think about
the biggest Palestinian city

00:25:59.210 --> 00:26:02.030
and commercial center
to Abu Dis is Jerusalem.

00:26:02.030 --> 00:26:04.580
Abu Dis is a suburb
of Jerusalem

00:26:04.580 --> 00:26:08.380
and has been cut off from it
by the apartheid wall.

00:26:08.380 --> 00:26:10.060
Why can’t Palestinians,

00:26:10.060 --> 00:26:12.270
why couldn’t my family
get to Jerusalem,

00:26:12.270 --> 00:26:15.110
and instead have
to travel to Bethlehem?

00:26:15.110 --> 00:26:17.910
And number three,
and so importantly,

00:26:17.910 --> 00:26:22.580
why is there a checkpoint
between Bethlehem and Abu Dis,

00:26:22.580 --> 00:26:24.850
two Palestinian cities?

00:26:24.850 --> 00:26:27.190
Why are there checkpoints
anywhere?

00:26:27.190 --> 00:26:29.240
Just think about
those questions

00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:32.310
as we answer this broader
question of the context that

00:26:32.310 --> 00:26:34.010
Ahmed was killed in.

00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:36.360
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Noura,
that last point that you —

00:26:36.360 --> 00:26:37.570
first of all,

00:26:37.570 --> 00:26:40.040
my deepest condolences
to you and your family.

00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:43.890
But I wanted to precisely
ask that question.

00:26:43.890 --> 00:26:45.830
What are these checkpoints

00:26:45.830 --> 00:26:47.770
that are within
Palestinian territory,

00:26:47.770 --> 00:26:51.040
that apparently are not even
near any Israeli settlements?

00:26:51.560 --> 00:26:56.720
How many of them are there?
And what is the justification

00:26:56.720 --> 00:26:58.570
for them from Israel’s
perspective?

00:26:59.970 --> 00:27:01.230
NOURA ERAKAT: Thank you
for that question.

00:27:01.230 --> 00:27:02.770
The Palestinian checkpoint —

00:27:02.770 --> 00:27:05.600
the checkpoints that divide
Palestinians from one another

00:27:05.600 --> 00:27:07.650
and that separate them
from their homes

00:27:07.650 --> 00:27:09.240
are an invention
of the peace process.

00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:13.930
In 1995, the Palestinian
West Bank and Gaza

00:27:13.930 --> 00:27:16.070
were separated into
three jurisdictions —

00:27:16.070 --> 00:27:19.110
A, B and C — demarking
what was under full Israeli

00:27:19.110 --> 00:27:20.370
civil and military control

00:27:20.370 --> 00:27:22.520
and what was under
some shared control.

00:27:22.520 --> 00:27:25.580
Note that Area C,
or 60% of the West Bank,

00:27:25.580 --> 00:27:27.450
is the largest area.

00:27:27.450 --> 00:27:30.760
It is what is now
being marked for annexation,

00:27:30.760 --> 00:27:32.800
and it is what came
under full Israeli

00:27:32.800 --> 00:27:35.670
civil and security control.

00:27:37.330 --> 00:27:39.360
The checkpoints that are erected

00:27:39.360 --> 00:27:43.380
are meant to police Palestinians
from traveling

00:27:43.380 --> 00:27:45.830
from amongst their cities
and with one another.

00:27:45.830 --> 00:27:49.670
And they are placed
precisely to divide Palestinians

00:27:49.670 --> 00:27:52.180
from one another
in order to delimit

00:27:52.180 --> 00:27:55.970
and to quell any kind of
national cohesion and uprising.

00:27:55.970 --> 00:28:00.000
They are also set up because
they are policing Palestinians,

00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.190
who are not to travel
next to settlements,

00:28:02.190 --> 00:28:04.240
around settlements,
through settlements,

00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:07.950
which are all built on
confiscated Palestinian lands.

00:28:07.950 --> 00:28:11.510
And you ask — you know,
sometimes these checkpoints

00:28:11.510 --> 00:28:13.610
are built around places
where there are no settlements,

00:28:13.610 --> 00:28:16.860
but there will be.
But there will be.

00:28:16.860 --> 00:28:21.310
All of Palestinian territory is
marked for Israeli settlements

00:28:21.310 --> 00:28:23.640
and is marked for
the removal of Palestinians.

00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:26.560
Palestinians have been steadily
removed from their homes.

00:28:26.560 --> 00:28:27.970
They are demolished.

00:28:27.970 --> 00:28:30.780
Roads are built over them
for Israelis only.

00:28:30.780 --> 00:28:33.150
Settlements are built
on top of them.

00:28:33.150 --> 00:28:35.310
And Palestinians
are ever contained

00:28:35.310 --> 00:28:37.760
into smaller
and smaller tracts of land,

00:28:37.760 --> 00:28:42.200
that the Trump administration
just revealed, in January,

00:28:42.200 --> 00:28:45.450
will become their permanent
Bantustans or reservations,

00:28:45.450 --> 00:28:47.790
where they will be able
to practice autonomy,

00:28:47.790 --> 00:28:50.500
which — or derivative
sovereignty,

00:28:50.500 --> 00:28:52.410
but never a form of freedom,

00:28:52.410 --> 00:28:55.030
and they will be
forever dominated.

00:28:55.030 --> 00:28:56.790
I want to switch really quick,

00:28:56.790 --> 00:28:59.070
because this is the concern
of the family.

00:28:59.070 --> 00:29:00.870
In the aftermath
of Ahmed’s murder,

00:29:01.470 --> 00:29:04.090
Israel immediately started
a propaganda campaign

00:29:04.090 --> 00:29:05.590
blaming Ahmed
for his own death

00:29:05.590 --> 00:29:10.900
and alleging that he tried to
ram his car into the checkpoint.

00:29:10.900 --> 00:29:16.290
This is a lie. This is
a incredibly hurtful lie,

00:29:16.290 --> 00:29:19.270
but it’s a systematic lie
that Israel tells as it kills

00:29:19.270 --> 00:29:23.190
Palestinians and blames them
for their own death.

00:29:23.760 --> 00:29:27.330
What we know is that Israel
has done this systematically.

00:29:27.330 --> 00:29:29.380
We know that
they have used this.

00:29:29.380 --> 00:29:32.820
As people have said, this is
prepared and ready argument.

00:29:32.820 --> 00:29:36.370
We know that from May
to October 2018,

00:29:36.370 --> 00:29:42.720
Israel killed 267 Palestinians
in Gaza who were unarmed.

00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:47.030
That was supported by the
Israeli military establishment,

00:29:47.030 --> 00:29:48.400
its political establishment,

00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:50.830
and it was rubber-stamped,
rubber-stamped

00:29:50.830 --> 00:29:54.040
as a shoot-to-kill policy
by the Israeli High Court.

00:29:54.040 --> 00:29:56.930
We know among those murdered
was paramedic,

00:29:56.930 --> 00:30:00.870
21-year-old Razan al-Najjar,
who had her hands up,

00:30:00.870 --> 00:30:05.060
was wearing a paramedic vest,
and was shot in the back.

00:30:05.570 --> 00:30:07.320
When she was killed,

00:30:07.320 --> 00:30:10.820
the Israeli military released
a doctored video

00:30:10.820 --> 00:30:14.230
claiming that Razan said,
"I am a human shield."

00:30:14.230 --> 00:30:17.530
What they failed to play
was the rest of Razan’s clip,

00:30:17.530 --> 00:30:22.310
where she said, "I am
a human shield here on the line

00:30:22.310 --> 00:30:27.000
being a protective human shield
saving the injured."

00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:29.780
But the Israeli military
doctored that video to say

00:30:29.780 --> 00:30:31.650
that she was
a human shield for Hamas.

00:30:31.650 --> 00:30:36.360
And guess what. The entire world
stops asking questions

00:30:36.360 --> 00:30:38.040
the moment you say Hamas,

00:30:38.040 --> 00:30:40.390
the moment you say
Palestinian violence,

00:30:40.390 --> 00:30:42.650
the moment you say
Palestinian resistance.

00:30:43.650 --> 00:30:46.910
It’s as if we expect that
to be a carte blanche to kill

00:30:46.910 --> 00:30:49.050
as many Palestinians
as possible.

00:30:49.050 --> 00:30:52.700
They did it with Razan.
They did it with Iyad el-Hallak.

00:30:52.700 --> 00:30:55.210
They did it
with Ahmed yesterday.

00:30:55.210 --> 00:30:57.650
And right now the family
is demanding

00:30:57.650 --> 00:31:00.200
that Ahmed’s body,
his corpse, be returned.

00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:03.280
It is being withheld as a form
of collective punishment.

00:31:03.280 --> 00:31:06.590
We are also demanding
that the home be protected,

00:31:06.590 --> 00:31:09.190
because Israel has a policy
of demolishing homes

00:31:09.190 --> 00:31:12.200
of Palestinians they consider
alleged assailants,

00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:14.790
without, of course,
any kind of trial.

00:31:14.790 --> 00:31:17.710
We are demanding that
the footage be released,

00:31:17.710 --> 00:31:22.060
and atone and apologize and
address the systematic violence.

00:31:22.060 --> 00:31:26.170
It bears to note that in 2017
the Human Rights Council

00:31:26.170 --> 00:31:30.920
at the U.N. examined the cases
of Israel’s systematic killings

00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:33.780
of Palestinians
and concluded, quote,

00:31:33.780 --> 00:31:37.270
"that Israel often used lethal
force against Palestinians

00:31:37.270 --> 00:31:42.410
on mere suspicion
or as a precautionary measure."

00:31:43.650 --> 00:31:46.240
Israeli soldiers
kill Palestinians

00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:48.600
as precautionary measure.

00:31:49.130 --> 00:31:51.350
And the rest of the world
accepts this

00:31:51.350 --> 00:31:55.680
because of how used
to the loss of Palestinian lives

00:31:55.680 --> 00:32:00.360
we have become numb to.
This is normalized.

00:32:00.360 --> 00:32:02.630
This amount of killing
is normalized.

00:32:02.630 --> 00:32:05.330
And this is the context
in which Ahmed now,

00:32:05.330 --> 00:32:08.290
his family, is fighting
for justice in his name

00:32:08.990 --> 00:32:11.840
and is also mourning his life
at the same time.

00:32:11.840 --> 00:32:14.660
AMY GOODMAN: Noura Erakat,
as you describe Ahmed,

00:32:15.450 --> 00:32:18.070
he was picking up
his mom and his sister.

00:32:18.070 --> 00:32:20.000
His sister was going
to be married last night.

00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:21.860
He was picking them up
from the salon.

00:32:21.860 --> 00:32:26.420
His sister Eman fainted when
she heard what had taken place?

00:32:26.420 --> 00:32:30.710
And he himself was going to be
married in just a few weeks?

00:32:32.350 --> 00:32:33.610
NOURA ERAKAT: Indeed.

00:32:33.610 --> 00:32:36.600
So, the other part of the story
that doesn’t add up,

00:32:36.600 --> 00:32:39.750
and, frankly, one of the things
about this is —

00:32:39.750 --> 00:32:42.110
you’re telling us
these details, Amy, right?

00:32:42.110 --> 00:32:44.470
And so, most listeners
would think, naturally,

00:32:45.010 --> 00:32:47.600
"Why would a young man,
27 years old,

00:32:47.600 --> 00:32:49.770
with his own
T-shirt business,

00:32:49.770 --> 00:32:52.140
who’s incredibly happy
and smiling

00:32:52.140 --> 00:32:54.490
on the day
of his sister’s wedding,

00:32:55.570 --> 00:32:58.360
plan an attack against
an Israeli checkpoint,

00:32:58.360 --> 00:33:01.240
which is basically
a suicide mission?

00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:04.270
Why? Why would he do that?"
Normal people will ask that.

00:33:04.270 --> 00:33:08.100
And normal, empathetic people
will say it is impossible.

00:33:08.100 --> 00:33:11.230
And yet, because of the
dehumanization of Palestinians

00:33:11.230 --> 00:33:15.500
and the racism with which
our stories are cloaked,

00:33:15.500 --> 00:33:18.400
there are some who might say,
"Yeah, it’s possible.

00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:21.450
Palestinians are driven
by a hatred for Jews

00:33:21.450 --> 00:33:24.340
and are basically born
in order to kill."

00:33:24.340 --> 00:33:26.860
As former Justice
Minister Ayelet Shaked

00:33:26.860 --> 00:33:29.830
said, Palestinian mothers
should be killed

00:33:29.830 --> 00:33:33.040
because they birth snakes?
This is the discourse

00:33:33.040 --> 00:33:36.370
of the highest people
in office in Israel,

00:33:36.370 --> 00:33:40.480
not of the random extremists,
but of its representatives,

00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:44.880
who represent them to the world,
this so-called only democracy.

00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:48.360
And yes, Ahmed was incredibly
proud of the home

00:33:48.360 --> 00:33:52.930
he had furnished and prepared
for his wife-to-be —

00:33:52.930 --> 00:33:56.800
they had shared pictures
of him in his home —

00:33:56.800 --> 00:34:01.180
and had so much to live
for and deserved to live

00:34:01.180 --> 00:34:02.450
and deserves justice

00:34:02.450 --> 00:34:05.160
and deserves our support
in demanding justice,

00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:06.440
in demanding accountability.

00:34:06.440 --> 00:34:10.460
This is not about one
bad Israeli soldier,

00:34:10.460 --> 00:34:14.020
just as it’s not
about one bad cop ever.

00:34:14.020 --> 00:34:17.200
This is a system.
It is an apartheid system.

00:34:17.200 --> 00:34:19.400
It is a settler
colonial system

00:34:19.400 --> 00:34:23.290
that enshrines
Jewish Israeli supremacy

00:34:23.290 --> 00:34:27.470
as a matter of law and policy
on an international scale.

00:34:28.270 --> 00:34:30.640
And it is one
that marks Palestinians

00:34:30.640 --> 00:34:34.260
for removal,
exile or death.

00:34:34.260 --> 00:34:37.770
And it is done with the full,
unequivocal, diplomatic,

00:34:37.770 --> 00:34:40.900
financial, military support
of the United States

00:34:40.900 --> 00:34:43.750
and with the complicity
of the international community.

00:34:43.750 --> 00:34:46.940
So it bears upon us to respond
in this moment

00:34:46.940 --> 00:34:49.660
by supporting the Palestinian
call for freedom,

00:34:49.660 --> 00:34:53.020
by doing the little that we can
by engaging in boycott,

00:34:53.020 --> 00:34:55.780
divestment and sanctions
for Ahmed,

00:34:55.780 --> 00:35:00.980
for Razan, for Iyad,
to oppose the annexation,

00:35:00.980 --> 00:35:03.400
to oppose apartheid,
to fight for freedom.

00:35:03.400 --> 00:35:04.710
AMY GOODMAN: Noura Erakat,

00:35:04.710 --> 00:35:06.350
we want to thank you
for being with us.

00:35:06.350 --> 00:35:09.180
Again, our condolences
to your family.

00:35:09.900 --> 00:35:12.420
Noura is a Palestinian
human rights attorney,

00:35:12.420 --> 00:35:15.660
legal scholar, colleague
of Juan’s over at Rutgers,

00:35:15.660 --> 00:35:18.510
assistant professor
at Rutgers University

00:35:18.510 --> 00:35:20.510
and author of Justice for Some:

00:35:20.510 --> 00:35:23.220
Law and the Question
of Palestine.

00:35:23.220 --> 00:35:25.370
Over a thousand European MPs

00:35:25.370 --> 00:35:27.510
have written a letter
opposing Israel’s

00:35:27.510 --> 00:35:30.430
plan to annex parts
of the occupied West Bank.

00:35:31.560 --> 00:35:37.200
Also, the final tweet — one of
the tweets of Noura Erakat,

00:35:37.200 --> 00:35:40.700
our guest, after Ahmed died,

00:35:41.590 --> 00:35:43.660
"They left him
to bleed out like this.

00:35:43.660 --> 00:35:46.080
For 1.5 hours.
His name is Ahmed.

00:35:46.080 --> 00:35:49.250
He deserved to live.
He deserved to dance tonight

00:35:49.250 --> 00:35:51.470
w his family
to celebrate his sister.

00:35:52.010 --> 00:35:55.480
He deserved to dance at his
wedding, to nurture family.

00:35:55.480 --> 00:35:58.220
To live.
This is not a picture of Ahmed

00:35:58.220 --> 00:36:00.270
but of Israel’s ugliness,"
she wrote.

00:36:01.030 --> 00:36:03.110
When we come back,
we look at the fight

00:36:03.110 --> 00:36:06.920
for racial justice in sports
with Etan Thomas,

00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:10.280
former NBA player,
co-host of the podcast

00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:12.890
The Collision: Where
Sports and Politics Collide.

00:36:12.890 --> 00:36:34.360
Stay with us.

00:37:21.060 --> 00:37:22.400
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy
Now!

00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:24.370
I’m Amy Goodman,
with Juan González,

00:37:24.370 --> 00:37:28.820
as we turn to look at the fight
for racial justice in sports.

00:37:28.820 --> 00:37:31.990
The FBI said Tuesday NASCAR
driver Bubba Wallace

00:37:31.990 --> 00:37:34.120
was not the target
of a hate crime

00:37:34.120 --> 00:37:36.790
and that a noose
found in his garage

00:37:36.790 --> 00:37:38.950
had been there
since last year.

00:37:38.950 --> 00:37:40.940
NASCAR described
the item as a, quote,

00:37:40.940 --> 00:37:44.500
"garage door pull rope
fashioned like a noose"

00:37:44.500 --> 00:37:46.840
and says it had been there
for months before the stall

00:37:46.840 --> 00:37:48.880
was assigned to Wallace.

00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:51.320
NASCAR launched an investigation
after a crew member

00:37:51.320 --> 00:37:52.690
discovered the noose Sunday

00:37:52.690 --> 00:37:55.600
at the Talladega
Superspeedway in Alabama.

00:37:56.260 --> 00:37:58.840
Bubba Wallace, who is
the only African American driver

00:37:58.840 --> 00:38:01.520
in NASCAR’s elite
Cup Series, tweeted the, quote,

00:38:01.520 --> 00:38:05.360
"act of racism and hatred
leaves me incredibly saddened."

00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:08.760
On Tuesday night, he told CNN
he stands by what he said.

00:38:10.180 --> 00:38:12.290
BUBBA WALLACE: The image
that I have and I have seen

00:38:12.290 --> 00:38:16.470
of what was hanging in my garage
is not a — is not a garage pull.

00:38:17.300 --> 00:38:19.970
I’ve been racing all my life.

00:38:19.970 --> 00:38:22.640
We’ve raced out
of hundreds of garages,

00:38:23.170 --> 00:38:25.650
that never had garage
pulls like that.

00:38:25.650 --> 00:38:27.610
So, people that want
to call it a garage pull

00:38:27.610 --> 00:38:29.080
and put out old videos

00:38:29.080 --> 00:38:34.420
and photos of knots
being in their —

00:38:34.420 --> 00:38:35.820
as their evidence, go ahead.

00:38:35.820 --> 00:38:37.740
But from the evidence
that we have

00:38:39.240 --> 00:38:42.520
and that I have,
it’s a straight-up noose.

00:38:42.520 --> 00:38:45.700
The FBI has stated it was
a noose over and over again.

00:38:47.120 --> 00:38:48.870
AMY GOODMAN: So,
that’s Bubba Wallace.

00:38:48.870 --> 00:38:54.040
On Sunday, a plane circled
over the track

00:38:55.300 --> 00:39:00.110
at the Talladega Superspeedway
towing a Confederate flag

00:39:00.110 --> 00:39:02.840
and a banner reading
"Defund NASCAR,"

00:39:02.840 --> 00:39:06.140
to push back against
the decision of NASCAR

00:39:06.140 --> 00:39:09.320
to ban the Confederate flag
at its raceways.

00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:10.800
Meanwhile, Dustin Skinner,

00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:13.400
the son of former NASCAR
driver Mike Skinner,

00:39:13.400 --> 00:39:16.410
apologized Tuesday
for writing a Facebook post

00:39:16.410 --> 00:39:18.300
saying that Bubba Wallace
should be dragged

00:39:18.300 --> 00:39:21.070
around the pits
with the noose.

00:39:22.750 --> 00:39:24.600
Well, from NASCAR to NFL,

00:39:24.600 --> 00:39:26.910
where Commissioner Roger Goodell
now says

00:39:26.910 --> 00:39:30.770
he encourages teams to sign
quarterback Colin Kaepernick,

00:39:30.770 --> 00:39:34.570
we’re joined by Etan Thomas,
athlete and activist,

00:39:34.570 --> 00:39:37.790
who spent 11 years in the NBA,
co-host of the weekly podcast

00:39:37.790 --> 00:39:39.690
The Collision: Where Sports
and Politics Collide,

00:39:39.690 --> 00:39:40.980
with Dave Zirin.

00:39:40.980 --> 00:39:44.650
His latest book, We Matter:
Athletes and Activism.

00:39:44.650 --> 00:39:46.540
It’s great to have you
with us, Etan.

00:39:46.540 --> 00:39:49.830
Let’s start with what’s
going on in NASCAR.

00:39:49.830 --> 00:39:53.000
Absolutely astounding what
Bubba Wallace has accomplished,

00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:55.100
pushing hard
for the Confederate flag

00:39:55.100 --> 00:40:00.610
to be banned from the raceways,
and NASCAR finally did comply,

00:40:00.610 --> 00:40:04.110
and to see, before the FBI
said they discovered

00:40:04.110 --> 00:40:08.670
that this noose-like rope
had been there for months,

00:40:10.080 --> 00:40:12.780
all of the elite car
drivers —

00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:15.440
Bubba Wallace is the only
African American

00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:17.600
elite NASCAR car driver —

00:40:17.600 --> 00:40:20.940
walking with him in a Black
Lives Matter-like protest.

00:40:20.940 --> 00:40:22.640
And, of course,
right before that,

00:40:23.640 --> 00:40:26.390
Bubba Wallace had unveiled
his racing car,

00:40:26.390 --> 00:40:28.910
which was black
with bold white letters,

00:40:30.090 --> 00:40:31.660
"Black Lives Matter,"

00:40:31.660 --> 00:40:34.550
and he wore a T-shirt
that said "I can’t breathe."

00:40:34.550 --> 00:40:37.020
Talk about what’s happening
in NASCAR.

00:40:37.020 --> 00:40:38.330
ETAN THOMAS: I mean, I think —
first of all,

00:40:38.330 --> 00:40:40.140
thanks for having me on.

00:40:40.140 --> 00:40:42.940
And I think it’s amazing,
what’s happening in NASCAR,

00:40:42.940 --> 00:40:44.230
to be honest with you.

00:40:44.230 --> 00:40:46.740
I had a chance
to interview Brad Daugherty,

00:40:46.740 --> 00:40:51.340
who is a team owner in NASCAR,
a former NBA player,

00:40:51.340 --> 00:40:53.300
yesterday for another show
that I have,

00:40:53.300 --> 00:40:54.970
Center of Attention on Twitch.

00:40:54.970 --> 00:40:59.130
And he told me about
the culture of NASCAR.

00:40:59.130 --> 00:41:00.990
And I have to —
admittedly, no,

00:41:00.990 --> 00:41:03.700
I’m not an avid watcher
of NASCAR.

00:41:03.700 --> 00:41:05.700
I don’t watch NASCAR
all the time.

00:41:05.700 --> 00:41:11.350
But he talked about how all of
the different drivers

00:41:11.350 --> 00:41:15.240
rallied around Bubba Wallace,
and that show of solidarity,

00:41:15.240 --> 00:41:18.120
and how he said that,
in his words,

00:41:18.120 --> 00:41:19.990
"that wouldn’t have happened
20 years ago."

00:41:19.990 --> 00:41:23.150
Now, getting all to the
particulars of the noose,

00:41:23.150 --> 00:41:26.810
and the FBI have called it
a noose many times.

00:41:26.810 --> 00:41:28.330
They didn’t say
that it wasn’t a noose.

00:41:28.330 --> 00:41:30.430
They didn’t say —
well, they called it a noose,

00:41:30.430 --> 00:41:32.430
just to make that clear,

00:41:32.430 --> 00:41:34.790
no matter when
it was placed there.

00:41:34.790 --> 00:41:37.820
And why Bubba Wallace was given
that particular garage,

00:41:37.820 --> 00:41:41.400
you know, I don’t know.
But they did call it a noose.

00:41:42.050 --> 00:41:45.880
But the part that was really
impressive to me is, number one,

00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:49.180
the way that NASCAR immediately
rallied around Bubba Wallace.

00:41:49.180 --> 00:41:54.880
They did more in 48 hours than
the NFL did for Colin Kaepernick

00:41:54.880 --> 00:41:57.380
for four or five years,
or however long it’s been.

00:41:57.380 --> 00:42:01.720
But the show of solidarity
around NASCAR,

00:42:01.720 --> 00:42:03.100
around the drivers —

00:42:03.100 --> 00:42:05.650
you know, which is
different than the fans.

00:42:05.650 --> 00:42:08.680
So the fans had one reaction.
You saw a lot of it —

00:42:08.680 --> 00:42:10.280
I mean, I’ve even seen it
in Twitter mentions.

00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:13.610
I posted my support
for Bubba Wallace,

00:42:13.610 --> 00:42:15.190
and I just saw
the mentions after me.

00:42:15.190 --> 00:42:18.280
Like, there’s a certain
demographic that is in NASCAR,

00:42:18.280 --> 00:42:19.680
and that’s undeniable.

00:42:19.680 --> 00:42:22.950
But the drivers don’t match
that demographic.

00:42:22.950 --> 00:42:24.380
And that’s one thing
that I didn’t know.

00:42:24.380 --> 00:42:25.580
I just thought all the —
you know,

00:42:25.580 --> 00:42:27.190
I thought they were one
and the same.

00:42:27.190 --> 00:42:29.460
But the show of solidarity
is something

00:42:29.460 --> 00:42:31.260
that we’re seeing
all across the country,

00:42:31.260 --> 00:42:33.700
I think, what we saw
in NASCAR with that.

00:42:34.380 --> 00:42:37.940
Right now at this time,
since George Floyd’s murder,

00:42:38.820 --> 00:42:42.680
I’ve seen more white people
who have been protesting,

00:42:42.680 --> 00:42:45.510
who have been
rallying around as allies,

00:42:45.510 --> 00:42:47.210
who want to be allies,

00:42:48.020 --> 00:42:49.880
than I have ever seen
in my lifetime,

00:42:49.880 --> 00:42:51.110
to be honest with you.

00:42:51.110 --> 00:42:54.340
And, you know, we can’t worry
about where were you,

00:42:54.340 --> 00:42:56.160
where have you been
all this time.

00:42:56.160 --> 00:42:58.480
You know, like,
you’re late to the party.

00:42:58.480 --> 00:43:00.140
OK, that’s fine. We don’t have
to worry about that.

00:43:00.140 --> 00:43:01.380
But you’re here now.

00:43:01.380 --> 00:43:03.650
So now is time for you
to use your privilege

00:43:03.650 --> 00:43:06.150
to be able to push
for things to actually change.

00:43:06.150 --> 00:43:08.760
And I think that’s a reflection
of where we are in the society.

00:43:08.760 --> 00:43:10.830
And those drivers in NASCAR,

00:43:10.830 --> 00:43:14.490
they are pushing for the culture
of NASCAR to change.

00:43:15.970 --> 00:43:17.480
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Etan Thomas,

00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:19.490
I wanted to ask you
about the other sports.

00:43:19.490 --> 00:43:24.110
Obviously, Major League Baseball
is trying to salvage its season.

00:43:24.110 --> 00:43:26.620
The NFL is in a quandary
about what to do.

00:43:26.620 --> 00:43:30.670
And the NBA now
is seeking to restart,

00:43:30.670 --> 00:43:32.020
to get into the playoffs,

00:43:32.020 --> 00:43:35.260
but there are battles
between the players themselves.

00:43:35.260 --> 00:43:36.480
ETAN THOMAS: Right.

00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:38.280
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Brooklyn Nets
star Kyrie Irving

00:43:39.290 --> 00:43:42.890
recently posted
on his Instagram account,

00:43:42.890 --> 00:43:45.280
"It’s clear White Supremacy
and Corporations

00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:47.980
use us
Native Indigenous Black Folk

00:43:47.980 --> 00:43:50.860
when it is beneficial
for their agenda and pockets,

00:43:50.860 --> 00:43:53.120
so be aware of the truth
in plain sight."

00:43:53.120 --> 00:43:56.330
So, Kyrie is at least saying

00:43:56.330 --> 00:43:59.210
that the players should consider
not participating,

00:43:59.210 --> 00:44:02.540
while LeBron James, obviously
the biggest star in the NBA

00:44:02.540 --> 00:44:05.150
and probably in American sports,
is saying,

00:44:05.150 --> 00:44:11.040
"No, let’s play and make our
statements through our playing."

00:44:11.040 --> 00:44:12.950
I’m wondering your perspective
on the battle

00:44:12.950 --> 00:44:15.820
among the NBA players
about the way forward.

00:44:16.810 --> 00:44:18.260
ETAN THOMAS: I don’t see that
it has to be a battle.

00:44:18.260 --> 00:44:20.260
I think there’s two
different approaches

00:44:20.770 --> 00:44:22.760
to be able to reach
one common goal.

00:44:23.270 --> 00:44:25.010
We’re going back
to the '68 Olympics,

00:44:25.010 --> 00:44:28.740
and I had the chance to be able
to interview both John Carlos

00:44:28.740 --> 00:44:30.320
and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
in my book,

00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:31.660
We Matter:
Athletes and Activism,

00:44:31.660 --> 00:44:33.480
and we talked about
this very topic.

00:44:33.480 --> 00:44:36.790
And Kareem Abdul-Jabbar elected
not to go to the ’68 Olympics.

00:44:36.790 --> 00:44:38.310
He didn't go.

00:44:38.310 --> 00:44:41.880
And John Carlos, of course,
went to the ’68 Olympics

00:44:41.880 --> 00:44:46.760
and did the Black Power salute
during the — on the podium,

00:44:46.760 --> 00:44:49.830
and that reverberated
to even today.

00:44:49.830 --> 00:44:51.810
Now, both of them
deserve respect.

00:44:51.810 --> 00:44:53.780
And that’s my issue with how —

00:44:53.780 --> 00:44:57.600
and my approach to hearing
Kyrie and hearing LeBron.

00:44:57.600 --> 00:45:00.100
When I turn on the news
and I’m looking at Stephen A.

00:45:00.100 --> 00:45:03.100
Smith and Charles Barkley
and even Michael Wilbon,

00:45:03.100 --> 00:45:05.610
and the inflammatory language
that they use

00:45:05.610 --> 00:45:09.570
when describing Kyrie and Dwight
Howard and Avery Bradley,

00:45:09.570 --> 00:45:12.090
who have said that maybe
this isn’t the best time for us

00:45:12.090 --> 00:45:13.680
to be worrying
about basketball,

00:45:13.680 --> 00:45:15.200
maybe there’s other things
that are —

00:45:15.200 --> 00:45:16.790
a movement that is going on
right now

00:45:16.790 --> 00:45:18.210
that we should be focused on,

00:45:18.210 --> 00:45:21.800
and the words that they chose
to use, like "stupid"

00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:25.800
and "dumb" and "ridiculous"
and — I would ask Stephen A.

00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:28.320
Smith, "Would you call Kareem
Abdul-Jabbar foolish

00:45:28.880 --> 00:45:30.580
for not going to
the ’68 Olympics?"

00:45:30.580 --> 00:45:34.070
I don’t think that’s — there’s
room for both discussions.

00:45:34.070 --> 00:45:39.010
There’s room for a civil debate
in both of these approaches.

00:45:39.010 --> 00:45:41.860
Now, on one hand,
we have precedent.

00:45:41.860 --> 00:45:47.350
We have the WNBA, who did go,
and they went to their —

00:45:47.350 --> 00:45:51.060
as an entire league
a few years ago,

00:45:51.060 --> 00:45:53.100
and I was able
to interview Swin Cash

00:45:53.100 --> 00:45:54.990
and Tamika Catchings
about it in my book.

00:45:54.990 --> 00:45:56.190
AMY GOODMAN: This is the women’s
league.

00:45:56.190 --> 00:45:57.700
ETAN THOMAS: And what they did —
what’s that?

00:45:57.700 --> 00:45:58.970
AMY GOODMAN: The women’s league.

00:45:58.970 --> 00:46:00.570
ETAN THOMAS: The women’s league,
yeah, the WNBA.

00:46:00.570 --> 00:46:03.020
And what they did
a few years ago,

00:46:03.020 --> 00:46:05.040
after the back-to-back murders
of Philando Castile

00:46:05.040 --> 00:46:08.670
and Alton Sterling,
was they, as an entire league,

00:46:08.670 --> 00:46:10.750
made a statement.
So, every single game,

00:46:10.750 --> 00:46:13.590
what they did was they had
an actual media blackout.

00:46:13.590 --> 00:46:16.130
So they would answer like
two questions from the game,

00:46:16.130 --> 00:46:19.870
and then, after that,
every question would be dealing

00:46:19.870 --> 00:46:21.570
with what the topic
was right there,

00:46:21.570 --> 00:46:24.570
which was police brutality
and the police accountability

00:46:24.570 --> 00:46:26.800
and what they could do
to change things.

00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:29.480
And they had the entire league.
They had white players,

00:46:29.480 --> 00:46:31.510
foreign players
that ain’t even from here.

00:46:31.510 --> 00:46:33.000
They didn’t even know
what was going on.

00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:34.430
But they educated them on it,

00:46:34.430 --> 00:46:37.290
and they saw their sisters
that were hurting,

00:46:37.290 --> 00:46:39.870
and they did it together.
Yes, that’s one approach.

00:46:39.870 --> 00:46:41.450
AMY GOODMAN: Etan, I wanted
to get your comment

00:46:41.450 --> 00:46:43.160
on the NBA
Commissioner Adam Silver

00:46:43.160 --> 00:46:45.740
speaking about
the league’s responsibility

00:46:45.740 --> 00:46:47.480
in addressing racial inequality.

00:46:48.460 --> 00:46:50.160
ADAM SILVER: The NBA
can have a —

00:46:51.400 --> 00:46:55.300
almost an unparalleled voice
in this conversation

00:46:55.300 --> 00:47:00.260
because of what we stand for,
because we represent, frankly —

00:47:00.260 --> 00:47:02.220
I mean, when you think
about our players,

00:47:02.220 --> 00:47:05.550
some of the best-known
Black people in the entire world

00:47:05.550 --> 00:47:08.470
are part of the NBA
and now part of the WNBA.

00:47:08.470 --> 00:47:11.210
So we know we can have
a very important voice. ...

00:47:11.210 --> 00:47:14.320
Let’s make sure that
in returning to basketball,

00:47:15.010 --> 00:47:19.060
a larger, broader message
about social equality,

00:47:20.070 --> 00:47:22.720
racial issues are not somehow
lost in the discussion.

00:47:23.560 --> 00:47:25.210
AMY GOODMAN: That’s the NBA
Commissioner Adam Silver.

00:47:25.210 --> 00:47:27.980
I was wondering what you think
has to happen right now.

00:47:27.980 --> 00:47:30.220
He was talking
alongside Magic Johnson

00:47:30.220 --> 00:47:32.210
in a virtual conversation.

00:47:32.210 --> 00:47:34.450
And then we’ll move on
to the NFL, very quickly.

00:47:34.450 --> 00:47:36.150
ETAN THOMAS: Well, I think that
that’s just a reflection

00:47:36.150 --> 00:47:37.390
of who he is.

00:47:37.390 --> 00:47:39.070
He is very different
than his predecessor.

00:47:39.070 --> 00:47:40.450
And people have
to always remember,

00:47:40.450 --> 00:47:42.000
his predecessor —
under his predecessor,

00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:44.730
David Stern, you know, Craig
Hodges and Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf

00:47:44.730 --> 00:47:46.050
were whiteballed
from the league.

00:47:46.050 --> 00:47:47.510
So he is very different.

00:47:47.510 --> 00:47:49.560
And I had a —
I’m not just name dropping,

00:47:49.560 --> 00:47:51.500
but I interviewed him
for my book, as well.

00:47:51.500 --> 00:47:53.830
And I have another interview
that I had of Adam Silver,

00:47:53.830 --> 00:47:55.560
as well.
And I asked him, you know,

00:47:55.560 --> 00:47:59.060
"Would you punish someone
who took a stand for something

00:47:59.060 --> 00:48:00.820
that you disagree with?"
And he said, "No."

00:48:00.820 --> 00:48:02.680
I asked him if he would punish
Craig Hodges

00:48:02.680 --> 00:48:04.940
and Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf
under his watch, and he said no.

00:48:04.940 --> 00:48:07.610
So he is somebody who has said
over and over again

00:48:07.610 --> 00:48:09.730
that he appreciates
the athlete voice.

00:48:09.730 --> 00:48:11.550
Now, Roger Goodell is different.

00:48:11.550 --> 00:48:13.970
And we could go right and pivot
right to Roger Goodell,

00:48:13.970 --> 00:48:16.220
because, all before,
he said one thing.

00:48:16.220 --> 00:48:19.500
Now, now he’s trying to kind of
slowly turn over a new leaf.

00:48:19.500 --> 00:48:22.020
And he first made
the press conference to say

00:48:22.020 --> 00:48:26.420
now he wants to embrace
NFL players protesting

00:48:26.420 --> 00:48:27.680
and using their voices,

00:48:27.680 --> 00:48:29.710
but he left out
Colin Kaepernick’s name,

00:48:29.710 --> 00:48:32.310
which you can’t really do
without, you know,

00:48:32.310 --> 00:48:35.090
mentioning the one person who
you whiteballed from the league,

00:48:35.090 --> 00:48:37.040
you know, for doing exactly
what you’re saying

00:48:37.040 --> 00:48:38.920
that you’re apologizing for now.

00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:40.470
But then he tried
to come back with this,

00:48:40.470 --> 00:48:42.200
and he wants to encourage teams.

00:48:42.200 --> 00:48:44.850
I don’t know if it’s little —
you know, too little,

00:48:44.850 --> 00:48:46.630
too late for all of that,
you know,

00:48:46.630 --> 00:48:48.320
too little,
too late type of a thing.

00:48:48.320 --> 00:48:53.670
But, again, we can’t worry about
when people get there.

00:48:53.670 --> 00:48:56.240
If he’s finally noticed it,
if he’s finally woken up,

00:48:56.240 --> 00:48:58.110
and he’s finally said,
"OK, I was wrong,

00:48:58.110 --> 00:49:00.100
and I want to change my ways,"
OK.

00:49:00.100 --> 00:49:02.020
Now let’s see
you put action to that.

00:49:02.020 --> 00:49:05.300
It’s OK to say that,
use the words and use statements

00:49:05.300 --> 00:49:06.520
and things of that nature,

00:49:06.520 --> 00:49:08.280
but now you have
to put action by it.

00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:11.750
And so, I have to see real,
actionable policy

00:49:11.750 --> 00:49:13.480
change in the way
that he conducts it.

00:49:13.480 --> 00:49:16.340
And first, it has to be with
bringing back Colin Kaepernick,

00:49:16.340 --> 00:49:18.490
because he is the symbol of you

00:49:18.490 --> 00:49:20.190
trying to squash
the athlete voice.

00:49:20.190 --> 00:49:21.800
It’s not just about one person.

00:49:21.800 --> 00:49:24.610
It’s about what you
whiteballing the one person

00:49:24.610 --> 00:49:26.620
means to the entire culture.

00:49:28.680 --> 00:49:29.960
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Etan,

00:49:29.960 --> 00:49:31.750
I want to thank you so much
for being with us

00:49:31.750 --> 00:49:34.240
and end with the words
of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar,

00:49:34.240 --> 00:49:36.420
who wrote
in the Los Angeles Times,

00:49:36.420 --> 00:49:39.880
"Racism in America
is like dust in the air.

00:49:41.210 --> 00:49:43.820
It seems invisible —
even if you’re choking on it —

00:49:43.820 --> 00:49:47.830
until you let the sun in.
Then you see it’s everywhere.

00:49:47.830 --> 00:49:49.490
As long as we keep shining
that light,

00:49:49.490 --> 00:49:53.470
we have a chance of cleaning it
wherever it lands.

00:49:53.470 --> 00:49:54.790
But we have to stay vigilant,

00:49:54.790 --> 00:49:57.180
because it’s always still
in the air."

00:49:57.750 --> 00:50:00.500
Those are the words of Kareem
Abdul-Jabbar,

00:50:00.500 --> 00:50:02.660
the basketball legend.

00:50:02.660 --> 00:50:05.610
Etan Thomas, I want to thank you
so much for being with us.

00:50:07.100 --> 00:50:14.180
The podcast that you started,
again, is started on WPFW,

00:50:14.180 --> 00:50:17.140
the Pacifica station
in Washington, D.C.

00:50:17.140 --> 00:50:18.780
AMY GOODMAN: We go now
to California.

00:50:18.780 --> 00:50:25.000
California is the place
where COVID-19

00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:28.830
is rapidly spreading through
the state’s overcrowded prisons.

00:50:28.830 --> 00:50:31.110
More than 400 people
have tested positive

00:50:31.110 --> 00:50:32.660
at San Quentin State Prison,

00:50:32.660 --> 00:50:34.100
where the virus
has reportedly spread

00:50:34.100 --> 00:50:36.530
to a number of cell blocks
and even death row.

00:50:36.530 --> 00:50:38.430
The spread began when
the California Department

00:50:38.430 --> 00:50:40.820
of Corrections
and Rehabilitation

00:50:40.820 --> 00:50:43.550
transferred nearly 200
incarcerated people

00:50:43.550 --> 00:50:44.960
from a prison in Chino

00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:48.600
with a massive COVID outbreak to
San Quentin and another prison.

00:50:48.600 --> 00:50:50.620
Outbreaks soon began
at each prison

00:50:50.620 --> 00:50:52.110
where people
had been transferred.

00:50:52.110 --> 00:50:54.670
At least 19 incarcerated people
in California

00:50:54.670 --> 00:50:56.840
have now died from COVID-19.

00:50:56.840 --> 00:50:59.500
This follows months of calls
for mass release,

00:50:59.500 --> 00:51:01.240
as advocates
and incarcerated people

00:51:01.240 --> 00:51:03.360
warn conditions
make it nearly impossible

00:51:03.360 --> 00:51:05.459
to stop the virus
once it enters a prison.

00:51:06.320 --> 00:51:08.550
On Friday,
a U.S. district judge in Oakland

00:51:08.550 --> 00:51:12.720
wiped tears from his face,
calling the San Quentin

00:51:12.720 --> 00:51:17.050
outbreak a "significant failure
of policy and planning."

00:51:17.710 --> 00:51:20.410
For more, we go to Los Angeles
to speak with Adnan Khan,

00:51:20.410 --> 00:51:23.480
executive director
of Re:Store Justice,

00:51:23.480 --> 00:51:25.920
which advocates for policy
and alternative responses

00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:27.290
to violence
and life sentences.

00:51:27.290 --> 00:51:28.980
Adnan Khan,
formerly incarcerated,

00:51:28.980 --> 00:51:30.560
served 16 years

00:51:30.560 --> 00:51:33.400
and spent four years
at San Quentin State Prison.

00:51:33.400 --> 00:51:35.380
We welcome you
to Democracy Now!, Adnan.

00:51:35.380 --> 00:51:38.010
I got to see you at San Quentin
a few years ago

00:51:38.010 --> 00:51:40.200
when the Democracy Now!
team went there.

00:51:40.200 --> 00:51:42.190
If you can talk about
what’s happened?

00:51:42.860 --> 00:51:46.520
We had a show just
a few months ago,

00:51:47.130 --> 00:51:49.020
at the beginning
of the pandemic,

00:51:49.020 --> 00:51:52.540
where this was predicted,
an outbreak at San Quentin.

00:51:52.540 --> 00:51:54.240
Explain how this happened.

00:51:55.970 --> 00:51:57.940
ADNAN KHAN: It’s very simple.
They moved —

00:51:57.940 --> 00:52:00.060
corrections staff
moved a bunch of people

00:52:00.060 --> 00:52:01.720
from one
of the deadliest outbreaks.

00:52:01.720 --> 00:52:05.150
Sixteen of the 19 deaths
in California prisons

00:52:05.150 --> 00:52:06.850
are recorded
in the Chino prison.

00:52:07.400 --> 00:52:10.410
And 120 people were transferred
from that prison

00:52:10.410 --> 00:52:11.620
into San Quentin,

00:52:11.620 --> 00:52:13.870
which two weeks ago
had zero cases.

00:52:13.870 --> 00:52:16.800
And that, today, in about a week
and a half later,

00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:18.600
we are over 400 cases.

00:52:19.340 --> 00:52:20.820
So, when we say
about preventable,

00:52:20.820 --> 00:52:22.680
I cannot say that COVID-19

00:52:22.680 --> 00:52:24.550
could not have been prevented
in San Quentin,

00:52:24.550 --> 00:52:28.190
but I do want to say that
immediately after that transfer

00:52:28.190 --> 00:52:31.320
from the most
deadliest prison outbreak

00:52:31.320 --> 00:52:33.070
that we’ve had in California,

00:52:33.070 --> 00:52:37.290
a huge outbreak occurred in our
prison system here in —

00:52:37.290 --> 00:52:39.240
I’m sorry,
specifically in San Quentin.

00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:41.280
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Adnan,

00:52:41.280 --> 00:52:46.100
many of the prisoners
in San Quentin are elders.

00:52:46.100 --> 00:52:49.370
They’re lifers,
with life sentences there.

00:52:49.370 --> 00:52:51.050
And they’re particularly
at risk.

00:52:51.050 --> 00:52:53.990
Could you talk about
the San Quentin population

00:52:53.990 --> 00:52:56.920
compared to other prisons
in the California system,

00:52:56.920 --> 00:52:59.960
and what Governor Newsom,
who’s in the news a lot

00:52:59.960 --> 00:53:02.000
about what he’s doing
for the rest of California,

00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:03.700
doing about
the prison situation?

00:53:05.080 --> 00:53:06.450
ADNAN KHAN: So, first of all,
Governor Newsom

00:53:06.450 --> 00:53:10.160
has been radio silent.
He comes on and talks a lot

00:53:10.160 --> 00:53:13.200
about,
you know, COVID in California,

00:53:13.200 --> 00:53:14.910
and everyone in California
will be tested.

00:53:14.910 --> 00:53:16.780
And he talks a lot
about California

00:53:17.320 --> 00:53:19.970
but refuses to talk
about the prison system,

00:53:19.970 --> 00:53:23.020
as if there aren’t Californians,
120 — actually,

00:53:23.020 --> 00:53:27.010
200,000-plus Californians
incarcerated here in the state.

00:53:27.010 --> 00:53:28.730
So, it seems
like Governor Newsom

00:53:28.730 --> 00:53:31.790
has been radio silent
on this particular issue.

00:53:31.790 --> 00:53:34.580
When it comes to the population,
the demographic in San Quentin,

00:53:34.580 --> 00:53:37.180
yes, there are a lot of people
who are considered lifers,

00:53:37.180 --> 00:53:39.190
people who are sentenced
to life in prison,

00:53:39.190 --> 00:53:42.260
and people who have been there
for a very, very long time

00:53:42.260 --> 00:53:44.400
or have been in prison
for a very, very long time.

00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:46.480
So we get this dichotomy a lot,
and a lot of this

00:53:46.480 --> 00:53:48.640
deserving-versus-nondeserving
conversation

00:53:48.640 --> 00:53:51.200
that we should only
release nonviolent,

00:53:51.200 --> 00:53:52.970
low-level or drug offenders.

00:53:52.970 --> 00:53:55.750
I don’t like using that term,
but for context here.

00:53:55.750 --> 00:54:00.940
And I think that we continue
to push away people who actually

00:54:00.940 --> 00:54:04.450
and factually are the
safest population to release,

00:54:04.450 --> 00:54:06.160
people who have been deemed,
quote-unquote,

00:54:06.160 --> 00:54:08.190
"violent"
for the rest of their life,

00:54:08.190 --> 00:54:09.510
and people who have been
in prison

00:54:09.510 --> 00:54:10.720
since they were teenagers.

00:54:10.720 --> 00:54:15.070
I was sentenced to 25 years
to life as an 18-year-old,

00:54:15.070 --> 00:54:18.050
and I was considered,
by law, a violent person,

00:54:18.050 --> 00:54:20.210
but my actions proved otherwise.

00:54:20.210 --> 00:54:22.700
So, there’s many people
in our prison system,

00:54:22.700 --> 00:54:26.620
particularly San Quentin,
that have an elderly population,

00:54:26.620 --> 00:54:28.550
who have been in prison
for decades.

00:54:28.550 --> 00:54:30.180
And as we keep talking about —

00:54:30.180 --> 00:54:33.190
when we do talk about reducing
the prison population,

00:54:33.190 --> 00:54:36.830
we only focus on
the front door of prisons,

00:54:36.830 --> 00:54:38.980
but we never focus
on the back door of prisons,

00:54:38.980 --> 00:54:41.480
where there are people
who are just jam-packed.

00:54:41.480 --> 00:54:43.770
And as we talk
about mass incarceration,

00:54:43.770 --> 00:54:45.600
I think it’s
a very important topic

00:54:45.600 --> 00:54:47.600
to discuss
static incarceration,

00:54:47.600 --> 00:54:49.300
where people
are stuck in prison,

00:54:49.820 --> 00:54:51.510
not just the volume
of people with mass,

00:54:51.510 --> 00:54:53.990
but there’s people
stuck in prison

00:54:53.990 --> 00:54:55.650
who don’t have
a release valve,

00:54:55.650 --> 00:54:59.400
don’t have a release date.
We need to reorganize that

00:54:59.400 --> 00:55:01.250
and look at that again
in our system.

00:55:02.130 --> 00:55:03.670
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And I wanted
to ask you also about

00:55:03.670 --> 00:55:05.950
those people who do test
positive in San Quentin.

00:55:05.950 --> 00:55:07.220
As I understand it,

00:55:07.220 --> 00:55:09.830
they’re moved to a place
called the Adjustment Center,

00:55:09.830 --> 00:55:14.230
where typically that was used
for solitary confinement.

00:55:15.310 --> 00:55:17.760
Explain to us more about
this Adjustment Center.

00:55:18.760 --> 00:55:22.070
ADNAN KHAN: So, the Adjustment
Center has always been a place

00:55:22.070 --> 00:55:25.000
where it is solitary
for those in solitary.

00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:27.300
So, for example,
if someone on condemned row —

00:55:28.330 --> 00:55:31.530
and San Quentin, out of the 34,
35 prisons in California,

00:55:31.530 --> 00:55:33.290
is the only place
that houses people

00:55:33.290 --> 00:55:35.680
that are sentenced
to lethal injection.

00:55:36.230 --> 00:55:38.430
So, if somebody has
a disciplinary infraction

00:55:38.430 --> 00:55:39.730
on condemned row,

00:55:39.730 --> 00:55:43.560
the Adjustment Center is the
solitary confinement for them.

00:55:44.170 --> 00:55:45.890
And so, what has happened is,

00:55:46.420 --> 00:55:49.350
as COVID had this flare-up
in San Quentin

00:55:49.350 --> 00:55:50.570
over the past two weeks,

00:55:50.570 --> 00:55:54.360
they have filled the Adjustment
Center with COVID patients.

00:55:54.360 --> 00:55:58.050
However, they only have about
a hundred bed spaces there,

00:55:58.050 --> 00:56:02.880
and they have — they’re already
300 bodies over or 300 people

00:56:02.880 --> 00:56:06.420
over the amount that they can
hold in the Adjustment Center.

00:56:06.420 --> 00:56:08.880
So, now I’m being told
that chapel spaces,

00:56:09.390 --> 00:56:12.200
gyms and other locations
are being used as

00:56:12.200 --> 00:56:14.860
COVID patient wards,
as overflow.

00:56:14.860 --> 00:56:16.840
But as we’ve seen,
within a matter of a week,

00:56:16.840 --> 00:56:18.500
week and a half,
in San Quentin,

00:56:18.500 --> 00:56:21.500
that lies in the middle
of the Bay Area, in Marin,

00:56:21.500 --> 00:56:24.550
the flare-up
is at 400 within a week,

00:56:24.550 --> 00:56:28.200
and we can expect a flare-up
to be even higher,

00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:30.790
you know, next coming days.

00:56:30.790 --> 00:56:32.610
One thing I want to share is,
a lot of people in society

00:56:32.610 --> 00:56:35.240
feel like that what happens
inside our prison system

00:56:35.240 --> 00:56:37.490
will not affect them out here
in the real world.

00:56:37.490 --> 00:56:39.040
And I think that is
the biggest mistake

00:56:39.040 --> 00:56:42.340
that we continue to make.
So, if we have, in California,

00:56:42.340 --> 00:56:44.520
close to 200-plus
thousand people

00:56:44.520 --> 00:56:46.790
that are incarcerated
in California

00:56:46.790 --> 00:56:51.130
and over 67,000 staff that come
in and out of these facilities,

00:56:52.220 --> 00:56:54.200
essentially, every eight hours,

00:56:54.200 --> 00:56:56.050
it is very difficult for us
to believe

00:56:56.050 --> 00:57:00.380
that COVID-19 and coronavirus
will safely contain itself

00:57:00.380 --> 00:57:03.450
within prison walls.
And that’s not the case.

00:57:03.450 --> 00:57:05.110
AMY GOODMAN: Adnan, you tweeted
earlier this week,

00:57:05.110 --> 00:57:06.740
"Adjustment Center (AC)

00:57:06.740 --> 00:57:08.970
in San Quentin
is where revolutionary

00:57:08.970 --> 00:57:11.190
George Jackson’s historic
incident took place.

00:57:11.190 --> 00:57:15.900
He was murdered by corr off
right outside of the AC.

00:57:15.900 --> 00:57:17.800
Now, that is where 200+

00:57:17.800 --> 00:57:20.970
#COVID19 outbreak cases
are being sent. ...

00:57:20.970 --> 00:57:22.550
[T]he AC

00:57:22.550 --> 00:57:25.250
[of course] ... solitary
within solitary confinement."

00:57:26.040 --> 00:57:29.820
Can you comment on this,
the significance of this?

00:57:31.060 --> 00:57:32.430
ADNAN KHAN: You know,
the Adjustment Center

00:57:32.430 --> 00:57:33.670
has always been —

00:57:33.670 --> 00:57:36.230
well, prisons, in general,
have always been seen as the,

00:57:36.230 --> 00:57:39.780
you know, punishment on society,
on Black and Brown people,

00:57:39.780 --> 00:57:42.110
on people who have already
been criminalized

00:57:42.110 --> 00:57:44.170
just based on the color
of their skin.

00:57:44.170 --> 00:57:46.040
When you go —
when you bring that into prison,

00:57:46.040 --> 00:57:47.670
which we’re talking about
systemic oppression,

00:57:47.670 --> 00:57:49.010
I want to make sure
that everyone knows

00:57:49.010 --> 00:57:52.380
that there’s a tie to what’s
happening out here in the world

00:57:52.380 --> 00:57:55.260
with the uprising and the
connection to the prison system.

00:57:55.260 --> 00:57:56.590
Really quickly, I want to say

00:57:56.590 --> 00:57:59.160
that there are literally
millions of people in prison

00:57:59.160 --> 00:58:02.060
based on the, quote-unquote,
like, "credible testimony"

00:58:02.060 --> 00:58:03.960
and written reports
of the very police

00:58:03.960 --> 00:58:06.820
that we’re seeing brutalize
protesters, brutalize

00:58:06.820 --> 00:58:11.070
and shoot at media and nurses
during these peaceful protests.

00:58:11.070 --> 00:58:12.940
And worse, they’re
the same officers

00:58:12.940 --> 00:58:15.870
who are responsible for murders
of like George Floyd,

00:58:15.870 --> 00:58:18.480
Breonna Taylor, Rayshard Brooks
and many, many more.

00:58:19.020 --> 00:58:21.740
And so, there are lots of people
in prison based on that.

00:58:21.740 --> 00:58:23.730
So, as we’re having
these uprisings out here

00:58:23.730 --> 00:58:25.210
and we follow
what happened in history —

00:58:25.210 --> 00:58:26.450
AMY GOODMAN: We have 10 seconds.

00:58:26.450 --> 00:58:29.290
ADNAN KHAN: — in history,
with the uprising

00:58:29.290 --> 00:58:31.010
in the '60s
or civil rights movement,

00:58:31.010 --> 00:58:33.940
George Jackson was
a revolutionary that —

00:58:33.940 --> 00:58:36.440
you know, we can — it's hard
to describe in a few seconds,

00:58:36.440 --> 00:58:38.350
but the incident took place
in the very Adjustment Center

00:58:38.350 --> 00:58:39.560
now we’re using —

00:58:39.560 --> 00:58:40.800
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going —

00:58:40.800 --> 00:58:42.420
ADNAN KHAN: — to house people.
I’m sorry, yes.

00:58:42.420 --> 00:58:43.620
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to have
to leave it there.

00:58:43.620 --> 00:58:45.460
Adnan Khan, I want to thank you
for being with us,

00:58:45.460 --> 00:58:47.870
executive director
of Re:Store Justice,

00:58:48.560 --> 00:58:50.590
recently released
from San Quentin.

00:58:50.590 --> 00:58:51.960
And that does it
for our broadcast.

00:58:51.960 --> 00:58:54.420
A very Happy Birthday
to Karen Ranucci!

00:58:54.420 --> 00:58:56.920
I’m Amy Goodman,
with Juan González.

00:58:56.920 --> 00:58:59.430
Thanks so much for joining us.
And stay safe.