WEBVTT 00:00:15.100 --> 00:00:18.330 From New York, this is Democracy Now! 00:00:19.180 --> 00:00:21.310 We are absolutely thrilled 00:00:21.310 --> 00:00:24.540 that Reality has been released from prison 00:00:24.540 --> 00:00:26.960 and has begun the reentry process. 00:00:26.960 --> 00:00:30.380 And from this point, we press on in the fight 00:00:30.380 --> 00:00:34.310 to get her a pardon from the Biden administration. 00:00:35.130 --> 00:00:39.170 NSA whistleblower Reality Winner is released 00:00:39.170 --> 00:00:41.970 from prison into a halfway house 00:00:41.970 --> 00:00:45.510 after serving over four years for leaking documents 00:00:45.510 --> 00:00:48.800 about Russian meddling in the 2016 elections. 00:00:48.800 --> 00:00:50.690 We’ll speak with her attorney. 00:00:50.690 --> 00:00:52.800 Then, China is warning NATO 00:00:52.800 --> 00:00:55.360 is adopting a "Cold War mentality" 00:00:55.360 --> 00:00:58.680 after the military alliance singled out China and Russia 00:00:58.680 --> 00:01:01.570 for criticism at its summit in Brussels. 00:01:01.570 --> 00:01:04.830 We’ll speak to historian Stephen Wertheim; 00:01:04.830 --> 00:01:07.310 his latest piece, "Sorry, Liberals. 00:01:07.310 --> 00:01:09.620 But You Really Shouldn’t Love NATO." 00:01:10.460 --> 00:01:12.790 President Biden, at the NATO summit, 00:01:12.790 --> 00:01:16.870 said that the United States has made a sacred obligation 00:01:16.870 --> 00:01:19.670 to defend the 30 members of NATO. 00:01:20.180 --> 00:01:22.330 But does that mean that the United States 00:01:22.330 --> 00:01:24.570 is going to be defending Europe, 00:01:24.570 --> 00:01:28.390 dominating security affairs in that continent forever? 00:01:28.930 --> 00:01:30.220 Then to Puerto Rico, 00:01:30.220 --> 00:01:33.320 which suffered a massive blackout last week, 00:01:33.320 --> 00:01:35.140 just days after the island’s 00:01:35.140 --> 00:01:37.840 electrical system was privatized. 00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:39.610 All that and more, coming up. 00:01:44.880 --> 00:01:47.860 Welcome to Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, 00:01:47.860 --> 00:01:50.310 The Quarantine Report. I’m Amy Goodman. 00:01:50.310 --> 00:01:52.220 President Joe Biden has wrapped up 00:01:52.220 --> 00:01:54.070 a NATO summit in Brussels, Belgium, 00:01:54.070 --> 00:01:55.980 ahead of a highly anticipated meeting 00:01:55.980 --> 00:01:59.280 with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Geneva on Wednesday. 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:01.620 As talks wrapped up, China accused NATO 00:02:01.620 --> 00:02:04.110 of adopting a "Cold War mentality" 00:02:04.110 --> 00:02:07.740 after Biden successfully pushed the military alliance 00:02:07.740 --> 00:02:08.970 to declare China 00:02:08.970 --> 00:02:11.650 to be a security risk for the first time. 00:02:11.650 --> 00:02:14.430 NATO leaders also criticized Russia 00:02:14.430 --> 00:02:17.060 and called on Moscow to withdraw troops from Ukraine, 00:02:17.060 --> 00:02:18.859 Georgia and the Republic of Moldova. 00:02:23.350 --> 00:02:25.600 The World Health Organization warned Monday 00:02:25.600 --> 00:02:27.800 the coronavirus is spreading faster 00:02:27.800 --> 00:02:30.430 than the global distribution of vaccines. 00:02:30.950 --> 00:02:34.420 WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus 00:02:34.420 --> 00:02:37.750 was responding to a pledge by leaders of the G7 00:02:37.750 --> 00:02:40.490 to donate 1 billion vaccine doses to middle- 00:02:40.490 --> 00:02:41.920 and low-income countries. 00:02:41.920 --> 00:02:45.460 That’s just 613 million new doses 00:02:45.460 --> 00:02:47.450 on top of previously pledged aid. 00:02:47.450 --> 00:02:48.770 Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus: 00:02:48.770 --> 00:02:51.230 "This is a big help, but we need more, 00:02:52.060 --> 00:02:53.950 and we need them faster. 00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:57.810 More than 10,000 people are dying every day. 00:02:58.770 --> 00:03:00.690 During this press conference alone, 00:03:01.430 --> 00:03:05.150 more than 420 people will die. 00:03:07.170 --> 00:03:09.280 These communities need vaccines, 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:13.430 and they need them now, not next year." 00:03:13.430 --> 00:03:16.940 The WHO says 11 billion doses are needed 00:03:16.940 --> 00:03:20.240 to fully vaccinate 70% of the world’s population. 00:03:21.010 --> 00:03:25.210 COVID-19 infections are surging in at least 14 African nations, 00:03:25.210 --> 00:03:27.740 where confirmed cases rose by 26% 00:03:27.740 --> 00:03:29.180 in the first week of June. 00:03:29.180 --> 00:03:32.860 Just 0.6% of Africa’s 1.3 billion 00:03:32.860 --> 00:03:34.780 people are fully vaccinated. 00:03:34.780 --> 00:03:36.120 Chile has ordered 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:39.020 millions of residents of the capital Santiago 00:03:39.020 --> 00:03:43.050 back into lockdown as intensive care units near capacity. 00:03:43.050 --> 00:03:44.670 That’s despite South America’s 00:03:44.670 --> 00:03:46.990 most successful vaccination program, 00:03:46.990 --> 00:03:50.500 which has fully vaccinated nearly 60% of Chileans. 00:03:50.500 --> 00:03:54.490 Brazil has opened the Copa América soccer tournament 00:03:54.490 --> 00:03:57.720 despite one of the world’s worst COVID outbreaks. 00:03:57.720 --> 00:03:59.520 Brazil’s Health Ministry has identified 00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:02.800 more than 40 COVID cases connected with Copa América, 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:05.410 including 31 players or staffers. 00:04:05.410 --> 00:04:07.560 As the tournament kicked off in Brasília Sunday, 00:04:07.560 --> 00:04:10.250 Indigenous people marched in protest. 00:04:11.760 --> 00:04:13.260 Kretã Kaingang: 00:04:13.260 --> 00:04:17.850 "We see the Copa América as an affront to the 500,000 deaths 00:04:17.850 --> 00:04:20.920 due to the misgovernance of this fascist government, 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:24.090 which denied the vaccine to the Brazilian population, 00:04:24.090 --> 00:04:27.400 denied the vaccine to us Indigenous peoples." 00:04:27.400 --> 00:04:30.300 The United States’ death toll from COVID-19 00:04:30.300 --> 00:04:33.450 has topped 600,000 — 00:04:33.450 --> 00:04:36.060 even as the number of daily deaths fell to its lowest level 00:04:36.060 --> 00:04:40.000 since a pandemic was declared in March of last year. 00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:41.760 That’s the highest official death 00:04:41.760 --> 00:04:43.960 toll of any country in the world, 00:04:43.960 --> 00:04:46.120 though disease experts at the University of Washington 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:51.150 estimate the true U.S. toll is over 924,000. 00:04:51.810 --> 00:04:53.490 On Monday, Vice President Kamala Harris 00:04:53.490 --> 00:04:55.700 traveled to South Carolina to kick off her tour 00:04:55.700 --> 00:04:57.860 promoting vaccinations in southern states, 00:04:57.860 --> 00:05:00.940 several of which have vaccination rates under 50%. 00:05:00.940 --> 00:05:02.620 Vice President Kamala Harris: 00:05:02.620 --> 00:05:06.080 "If you are vaccinated, you are protected. 00:05:07.230 --> 00:05:09.740 If your community is vaccinated, 00:05:10.360 --> 00:05:13.640 COVID rates in your community will go down." 00:05:13.640 --> 00:05:17.700 CDC data show U.S. coronavirus hot spots 00:05:17.700 --> 00:05:20.900 are clustered in areas with lower vaccination rates. 00:05:20.900 --> 00:05:23.060 Meanwhile, Vermont has become the first state 00:05:23.060 --> 00:05:24.960 to administer at least one vaccine dose 00:05:24.960 --> 00:05:27.960 to over 80% of its eligible population. 00:05:27.960 --> 00:05:30.770 Vermont Governor Phil Scott on Monday said he was lifting 00:05:30.770 --> 00:05:33.510 all remaining coronavirus restrictions. 00:05:33.510 --> 00:05:35.760 Gov. Phil Scott: "Because it’s safe to do so. 00:05:36.700 --> 00:05:39.080 And it’s safe because Vermonters have done their part 00:05:39.080 --> 00:05:40.780 to keep the virus from spreading, 00:05:41.490 --> 00:05:43.780 and stepping up to get vaccinated. 00:05:44.420 --> 00:05:50.240 In fact, no state in the nation is in a better position 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:51.980 to do this than we are." 00:05:51.980 --> 00:05:55.560 Former National Security Agency contractor Reality Winner 00:05:55.560 --> 00:05:58.510 was released from prison on Monday into a halfway house, 00:05:58.510 --> 00:06:01.800 where she’ll serve the remaining six months of her sentence. 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:05.310 Winner was arrested in 2017 and sentenced to five years 00:06:05.310 --> 00:06:07.600 in prison under the Espionage Act 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:09.710 for leaking classified government information 00:06:09.710 --> 00:06:13.260 about Russian interference in the 2016 election. 00:06:13.260 --> 00:06:16.780 Prosecutors say Winner received the longest sentence ever given 00:06:16.780 --> 00:06:19.550 by a federal court for unauthorized disclosure 00:06:19.550 --> 00:06:21.500 of government information to the press. 00:06:24.910 --> 00:06:27.360 On Capitol Hill, three Senate Republicans 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:29.150 voted with Democrats Monday 00:06:29.150 --> 00:06:32.340 to confirm Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson 00:06:32.340 --> 00:06:35.380 to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit. 00:06:35.380 --> 00:06:37.810 The court is widely seen as a stepping stone 00:06:37.810 --> 00:06:40.650 to a nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court. 00:06:40.650 --> 00:06:43.720 Her confirmation came as Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell 00:06:43.720 --> 00:06:46.530 said Republicans would refuse to confirm any of 00:06:46.530 --> 00:06:48.630 President Biden’s nominees to the Supreme 00:06:48.630 --> 00:06:51.500 Court in 2024, should a vacancy open. 00:06:51.500 --> 00:06:54.480 McConnell spoke Monday with conservative talk radio host 00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:55.720 Hugh Hewitt. 00:06:55.720 --> 00:06:58.319 Sen. Mitch McConnell: "I think it’s highly unlikely. 00:06:58.940 --> 00:07:04.300 In fact, no, I don’t think either party, if it controlled — 00:07:04.940 --> 00:07:06.670 if it were different from the president, 00:07:06.670 --> 00:07:08.080 would confirm a Supreme Court 00:07:08.080 --> 00:07:10.370 nominee in the middle of an election." 00:07:11.390 --> 00:07:14.110 During the same interview, McConnell hinted 00:07:14.110 --> 00:07:16.200 he would also stonewall a Biden Supreme 00:07:16.200 --> 00:07:18.280 Court nominee in 2023, should 00:07:18.280 --> 00:07:20.670 Republicans take control of the Senate. 00:07:20.670 --> 00:07:22.090 A Chicago police officer 00:07:22.090 --> 00:07:24.760 who joined the January 6 riot at the U.S. 00:07:24.760 --> 00:07:28.450 Capitol has been arrested, becoming the 465th person 00:07:28.450 --> 00:07:30.890 charged in connection with the insurrection. 00:07:30.890 --> 00:07:33.230 Officer Karol Chwiesiuk wore a Chicago 00:07:33.230 --> 00:07:37.150 Police Department sweatshirt as he texted selfies of himself 00:07:37.150 --> 00:07:40.480 breaching the offices of Senator Jeff Merkley. 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:42.100 Meanwhile, weapons maker 00:07:42.100 --> 00:07:45.310 Boeing has resumed major campaign contributions 00:07:45.310 --> 00:07:47.030 to three Republican congressmembers 00:07:47.030 --> 00:07:49.930 who voted to overturn the official certification 00:07:49.930 --> 00:07:52.020 of 2020’s Electoral College 00:07:52.020 --> 00:07:53.670 votes: Representatives 00:07:53.670 --> 00:07:57.080 Jack Bergman, Vicky Hartzler and Steve Scalise. 00:07:57.080 --> 00:07:59.540 Boeing briefly stopped campaign contributions 00:07:59.540 --> 00:08:01.910 in the wake of the January 6 insurrection. 00:08:02.760 --> 00:08:04.350 Georgia Republican Congressmember 00:08:04.350 --> 00:08:07.140 Marjorie Taylor Greene has apologized for equating mask 00:08:07.140 --> 00:08:08.820 mandates during the pandemic to the 00:08:08.820 --> 00:08:11.060 Holocaust, when over 6 million people — 00:08:11.060 --> 00:08:14.050 most of them Jewish — were murdered by Nazi Germany. 00:08:14.050 --> 00:08:16.680 But Greene refused to retract her statement 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:18.950 comparing Democrats to Nazis. 00:08:18.950 --> 00:08:20.670 Greene’s comments came after she toured 00:08:20.670 --> 00:08:22.500 the Holocaust Museum in Washington, 00:08:22.500 --> 00:08:24.200 D.C., on Monday. 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:27.200 In West Virginia, the Poor People’s Campaign 00:08:27.200 --> 00:08:31.390 led a "Moral March on Manchin" in Charleston Monday 00:08:31.390 --> 00:08:32.970 protesting Democratic Senator 00:08:32.970 --> 00:08:36.140 Joe Manchin’s opposition to killing the filibuster. 00:08:36.140 --> 00:08:38.920 They also demanded Manchin reverse his opposition to the 00:08:38.920 --> 00:08:41.850 For the People Act, which would restore and expand 00:08:41.850 --> 00:08:44.540 the protections of the 1965 Voting Rights 00:08:44.540 --> 00:08:49.290 Act, gutted by the Supreme Court in 2013. This is the Rev. 00:08:49.290 --> 00:08:52.030 William Barber, co-chair of the Poor People’s Campaign. 00:08:52.030 --> 00:08:53.830 Rev. William Barber II: "We ain’t in this heat to play." 00:08:53.830 --> 00:08:55.160 Protester: "That’s right!" 00:08:55.160 --> 00:08:56.510 Rev. William Barber II: "Am I right about it?" 00:08:56.510 --> 00:08:57.830 Protesters: "Yes!" Rev. William Barber II: 00:08:57.830 --> 00:08:59.629 "We’re not in these streets to play. 00:09:00.190 --> 00:09:02.170 We are here to bring street heat 00:09:03.020 --> 00:09:06.990 and moral heat to the legislative processes. 00:09:06.990 --> 00:09:10.430 The voices of the people in West Virginia will be heard. 00:09:10.970 --> 00:09:13.480 We are nonviolent, but we ain’t playin’. 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:17.010 We will fight for the soul of this democracy, 00:09:17.010 --> 00:09:18.920 because wages are at stake, 00:09:18.920 --> 00:09:22.010 infrastructure is at stake, voting rights are at stake. 00:09:22.010 --> 00:09:25.540 And we will fight for this democracy!" 00:09:26.980 --> 00:09:29.030 Senator Bernie Sanders, 00:09:29.030 --> 00:09:30.910 Ed Markey and other progressive lawmakers 00:09:30.910 --> 00:09:33.280 are rejecting a bipartisan infrastructure bill 00:09:33.280 --> 00:09:36.410 negotiated by Democrats Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, 00:09:36.410 --> 00:09:38.370 along with Mitt Romney and other Republicans. 00:09:38.370 --> 00:09:41.820 The compromise package calls for $580 billion 00:09:41.820 --> 00:09:44.000 in new spending, which climate activists say 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:47.980 is far short of what’s needed to avert a climate catastrophe. 00:09:47.980 --> 00:09:50.260 Meanwhile, dozens of youth climate activists 00:09:50.260 --> 00:09:53.090 marched across the Golden Gate Bridge Monday, 00:09:53.090 --> 00:09:56.900 capping a 266-mile march across California 00:09:56.900 --> 00:10:00.410 to demand officials take real action on the climate crisis. 00:10:00.410 --> 00:10:02.090 The protesters ended their march 00:10:02.090 --> 00:10:05.600 at the San Francisco home of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:10.610 This is 17-year-old Ema Govea, a member of the Sunrise Movement 00:10:10.610 --> 00:10:12.200 and one of the leaders of the march. 00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:13.750 Ema Govea: "They are not being brave, 00:10:13.750 --> 00:10:15.600 and they’re not fighting hard enough 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:18.620 to keep the climate in this infrastructure bill, 00:10:19.210 --> 00:10:21.140 to fight for the boldest, 00:10:21.140 --> 00:10:23.970 most well-funded civilian climate corps possible. 00:10:23.970 --> 00:10:26.230 And we know — we understand the science. 00:10:26.230 --> 00:10:28.190 We know what is necessary. 00:10:28.190 --> 00:10:30.800 We are asking for their legislation 00:10:31.330 --> 00:10:33.870 to be at scale with the climate crisis. 00:10:33.870 --> 00:10:36.280 And frankly, everything that they’re putting forward 00:10:36.280 --> 00:10:38.600 is too watered down. It’s just not enough." 00:10:39.580 --> 00:10:43.570 The protest came as California faces a historic drought, 00:10:43.570 --> 00:10:46.360 with firefighters preparing for a wildfire year 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:49.840 they anticipate could rival last year’s record-breaking season. 00:10:50.560 --> 00:10:53.540 In Rockton, Illinois, a massive fire at a chemical plant 00:10:53.540 --> 00:10:55.820 is continuing to burn for a second day 00:10:55.820 --> 00:10:59.570 amid warnings of an unfolding environmental catastrophe. 00:10:59.570 --> 00:11:03.510 The Chemtool chemical plant northwest of Chicago 00:11:03.510 --> 00:11:05.090 erupted in flames Monday morning, 00:11:05.090 --> 00:11:07.160 billowing thick, black smoke 00:11:07.160 --> 00:11:10.060 and prompting a mandatory evacuation 00:11:10.060 --> 00:11:13.870 order for all residents within one mile of the site. 00:11:13.870 --> 00:11:15.210 People within a three-mile radius 00:11:15.210 --> 00:11:19.350 have been ordered to wear masks to avoid respiratory irritation. 00:11:19.350 --> 00:11:21.080 Rockton’s fire chief said firefighters 00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:23.610 would allow the blaze to continue to burn for days 00:11:23.610 --> 00:11:25.310 in order to prevent hazardous runoff 00:11:25.310 --> 00:11:27.010 into the nearby Rock River. 00:11:27.740 --> 00:11:30.790 In Minneapolis, a driver slammed his car 00:11:30.790 --> 00:11:33.060 into a crowd of peaceful demonstrators 00:11:33.060 --> 00:11:36.890 who had gathered Sunday at a vigil against police brutality, 00:11:36.890 --> 00:11:39.800 killing one person and injuring three others. 00:11:39.800 --> 00:11:43.260 The crash killed 31-year-old Deona Marie Erickson, 00:11:43.260 --> 00:11:45.440 a mother of two small daughters. 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:47.990 Police arrested the driver, Nicholas Kraus, 00:11:47.990 --> 00:11:50.880 on suspicion of vehicular homicide. 00:11:50.880 --> 00:11:52.620 He’s a 35-year-old white man 00:11:52.620 --> 00:11:54.090 with a history of domestic violence 00:11:54.090 --> 00:11:57.680 and at least five convictions for driving while intoxicated. 00:11:57.680 --> 00:11:59.630 Protesters had gathered to demand justice 00:11:59.630 --> 00:12:01.280 for Winston Smith, 00:12:01.280 --> 00:12:03.840 a 32-year-old Black father of three 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:05.850 who was shot dead in Minneapolis on June 3 00:12:05.850 --> 00:12:08.970 by members of a U.S. Marshals Fugitive Task Force. 00:12:08.970 --> 00:12:11.530 Minnesota officials said Smith fired a gun at officers, 00:12:11.530 --> 00:12:14.210 who returned fire, striking him multiple times. 00:12:14.210 --> 00:12:18.050 Police say there is no video of Smith’s killing. 00:12:18.660 --> 00:12:20.560 A woman who was a passenger in the car 00:12:20.560 --> 00:12:23.670 disputed the police account, saying, through her attorneys, 00:12:23.670 --> 00:12:25.380 that she never saw a gun on Smith 00:12:25.380 --> 00:12:27.840 and never saw one in his vehicle. 00:12:28.680 --> 00:12:31.070 In Burma, the trial against deposed leader 00:12:31.070 --> 00:12:32.720 Aung San Suu Kyi began Monday. 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:35.530 She faces a range of charges that the U.N. and others 00:12:35.530 --> 00:12:37.260 have condemned as politically motivated, 00:12:37.260 --> 00:12:39.630 including illegally possessing walkie-talkies 00:12:39.630 --> 00:12:41.710 and violating a state secrets law, 00:12:41.710 --> 00:12:44.110 totaling up to 15 years in prison. 00:12:44.110 --> 00:12:45.870 Suu Kyi has been under house arrest 00:12:45.870 --> 00:12:48.440 since she and other officials were ousted 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:50.520 in a February 1 military coup. 00:12:50.520 --> 00:12:52.670 A local rights group says over 800 people 00:12:52.670 --> 00:12:55.170 have been killed and 4,300 arrested 00:12:55.170 --> 00:12:58.020 since mass protests erupted in response to the coup. 00:12:58.700 --> 00:13:00.060 The International Criminal Court 00:13:00.060 --> 00:13:02.520 is seeking authorization from The Hague tribunal 00:13:02.520 --> 00:13:04.610 to open an investigation into possible crimes 00:13:04.610 --> 00:13:07.900 against humanity committed as part of Philippines President 00:13:07.900 --> 00:13:10.640 Rodrigo Duterte’s brutal war on drugs. 00:13:10.640 --> 00:13:12.350 The crimes include murder, torture 00:13:12.350 --> 00:13:14.690 and serious physical and mental harm. 00:13:14.690 --> 00:13:17.470 Since 2016, Duterte’s war on drugs 00:13:17.470 --> 00:13:20.330 has claimed thousands of lives, including children. 00:13:20.330 --> 00:13:21.590 This is Normita Lopez, 00:13:21.590 --> 00:13:23.260 the mother of one of the victims. 00:13:23.260 --> 00:13:26.600 Her 23-year-old son was killed in May 2017 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:29.500 for allegedly resisting arrest during a sting operation. 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:32.300 Normita Lopez: 00:13:32.880 --> 00:13:35.660 "When I heard the news about the International Criminal Court, 00:13:35.660 --> 00:13:39.100 I was happy. I thought the case would no longer prosper. 00:13:39.100 --> 00:13:41.750 If we filed the case against Duterte here, 00:13:41.750 --> 00:13:42.990 nothing would happen. 00:13:42.990 --> 00:13:46.070 Since he is the president, he can manipulate everything. 00:13:46.070 --> 00:13:49.200 He can do anything to avoid getting sued and imprisoned. 00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:52.480 When I heard the news about the ICC, I became more hopeful." 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:54.650 And those are some of the headlines this is Democracy 00:13:54.650 --> 00:13:58.110 Now, Democracynow.org, the War and Peace Report. 00:13:58.110 --> 00:13:59.810 I’m Amy Goodman. 00:14:11.210 --> 00:14:13.820 AMY GOODMAN: The former National Security Agency 00:14:13.820 --> 00:14:17.680 contractor Reality Winner was released from prison Monday. 00:14:17.680 --> 00:14:21.250 She was arrested in 2017, sentenced to five years 00:14:21.250 --> 00:14:23.460 in prison under the Espionage Act 00:14:23.460 --> 00:14:26.030 for leaking classified government information. 00:14:26.030 --> 00:14:28.350 She worked at Fort Gordon in Georgia 00:14:28.350 --> 00:14:31.460 as a contractor with Pluribus International, 00:14:31.460 --> 00:14:34.600 when federal law enforcement agents raided her house 00:14:34.600 --> 00:14:37.840 after determining she had given reporters at The Intercept 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:40.800 a secret document about Russian interference 00:14:40.800 --> 00:14:42.990 in the 2016 election 00:14:42.990 --> 00:14:45.070 Prosecutors told The New York Times 00:14:45.070 --> 00:14:48.650 she got the longest sentence ever given by a federal court 00:14:48.650 --> 00:14:50.200 for unauthorized disclosure 00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:52.520 of government information to the press. 00:14:52.520 --> 00:14:56.370 Reality Winner was released from the Federal Medical Center 00:14:56.370 --> 00:14:59.360 Carswell, a prison in Fort Worth, Texas, 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:00.990 and will serve the rest of her sentence 00:15:00.990 --> 00:15:03.640 over the next six months in a halfway house. 00:15:04.220 --> 00:15:07.740 Reality’s family and legal team say she should receive a pardon 00:15:07.740 --> 00:15:10.330 and are calling for her sentence to be commuted. 00:15:10.330 --> 00:15:12.240 Last week, Reality Winner’s mother, 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:16.340 Billie Winner-Davis, addressed Biden on The Mehdi Hasan Show. 00:15:16.340 --> 00:15:17.610 BILLIE WINNER-DAVIS: This really — 00:15:17.610 --> 00:15:19.300 this is in his hands right now. 00:15:19.300 --> 00:15:22.730 My daughter has a petition for clemency 00:15:22.730 --> 00:15:25.240 with the United States pardon attorney. 00:15:25.240 --> 00:15:27.720 And all it’s going to take is for his signature 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:30.890 to commute her sentence to bring her home to us. 00:15:31.530 --> 00:15:34.910 And I believe that she deserves this. 00:15:34.910 --> 00:15:37.360 You know, the Trump administration persecuted 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:39.590 Reality so strongly 00:15:39.590 --> 00:15:42.780 because of the information that she released. 00:15:42.780 --> 00:15:45.770 And the continued silence from this administration 00:15:45.770 --> 00:15:47.570 is a continued persecution. 00:15:48.460 --> 00:15:50.230 AMY GOODMAN: For more, we go to Dallas 00:15:50.230 --> 00:15:52.480 to speak with Alison Grinter Allen, 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:55.090 the lawyer handling Reality Winner’s commutation 00:15:55.090 --> 00:15:56.570 and pardon process. 00:15:56.570 --> 00:15:58.520 Welcome to Democracy Now! 00:15:58.520 --> 00:16:02.280 Can you talk about Reality being released, 00:16:02.280 --> 00:16:06.690 except not to freedom, but to a halfway house? 00:16:07.780 --> 00:16:10.750 Was her sentence in any way 00:16:11.650 --> 00:16:15.800 shortened by the White House or the Justice Department, 00:16:15.800 --> 00:16:18.670 or this was simply her serving out her term 00:16:18.670 --> 00:16:20.870 as she continues to do in the halfway house? 00:16:23.450 --> 00:16:25.480 ALISON GRINTER ALLEN: Thank you, Amy, for having me. 00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:28.780 No, this is the normal release process. 00:16:29.370 --> 00:16:31.020 The last six months of a sentence 00:16:31.020 --> 00:16:36.400 are usually spent in the reentry process, 00:16:36.400 --> 00:16:41.760 which includes halfway houses. There’s an infrastructure 00:16:41.760 --> 00:16:43.920 all over the country of halfway houses 00:16:43.920 --> 00:16:48.660 that help people readjust into normal life after incarceration. 00:16:51.660 --> 00:16:54.710 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And have you been able to speak to Winner 00:16:54.710 --> 00:16:57.260 after she was released? 00:16:57.260 --> 00:17:00.370 And do you have a sense that there’s still a possibility 00:17:00.370 --> 00:17:02.140 for a pardon for her? 00:17:03.280 --> 00:17:05.090 ALISON GRINTER ALLEN: Well, I have spoken with her. 00:17:05.090 --> 00:17:08.500 I was fortunate to be there when she was released. 00:17:08.500 --> 00:17:12.070 She’s in good health and excellent spirits. 00:17:13.800 --> 00:17:16.540 But the pardon process continues. 00:17:17.730 --> 00:17:22.640 The fight goes on, regardless of whether she is in prison or not. 00:17:23.510 --> 00:17:26.120 She is a felon. 00:17:26.120 --> 00:17:29.370 She will have that on her record for life. 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:33.050 And a pardon can still do quite a bit 00:17:33.050 --> 00:17:34.750 to improve her circumstances. 00:17:34.750 --> 00:17:38.000 But we believe that it’s more important, probably, 00:17:38.540 --> 00:17:40.530 for the country. 00:17:40.530 --> 00:17:44.320 Reality released a document that gave us information 00:17:44.320 --> 00:17:46.700 that we needed to know at a time 00:17:46.700 --> 00:17:48.860 that we absolutely needed to know it. 00:17:49.490 --> 00:17:50.690 And she was in prison 00:17:50.690 --> 00:17:54.730 not because the information was a danger 00:17:54.730 --> 00:17:56.090 or put anyone in danger; 00:17:56.090 --> 00:18:00.950 she was in prison to salve the insecurities of one man, 00:18:00.950 --> 00:18:05.480 who was concerned about the validity of his election win. 00:18:05.480 --> 00:18:09.850 And as we saw from the last four years, 00:18:09.850 --> 00:18:13.960 absolutely nothing could put those insecurities at rest. 00:18:15.300 --> 00:18:16.580 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Could you talk a little bit 00:18:16.580 --> 00:18:18.810 about exactly what happened? 00:18:18.810 --> 00:18:23.220 She was arrested by FBI agents in her home in Augusta, Georgia, 00:18:23.220 --> 00:18:26.910 back in June of 2017, just a couple of days 00:18:26.910 --> 00:18:29.850 after The Intercept published an exposé. 00:18:29.850 --> 00:18:31.550 Could you talk about that? 00:18:32.250 --> 00:18:33.520 ALISON GRINTER ALLEN: Yes. 00:18:33.520 --> 00:18:36.210 Armed FBI agents came to her house 00:18:37.190 --> 00:18:39.880 and interrogated her in her own home, 00:18:41.910 --> 00:18:45.770 largely in order to avoid the idea 00:18:45.770 --> 00:18:48.120 that it was a custodial interrogation. 00:18:49.310 --> 00:18:53.610 They did not provide her with her Miranda rights 00:18:53.610 --> 00:18:55.460 or an attorney, 00:18:55.460 --> 00:19:01.580 and they — eventually, she admitted 00:19:01.580 --> 00:19:04.030 that she was the one who had leaked the document, 00:19:05.130 --> 00:19:08.090 and she never saw the light of day again. 00:19:08.850 --> 00:19:13.520 She was incarcerated, denied pretrial release 00:19:14.180 --> 00:19:18.250 and basically forced into a plea agreement 00:19:19.090 --> 00:19:22.330 for the longest sentence ever given for a release 00:19:22.330 --> 00:19:24.460 of classified information to the media. 00:19:26.370 --> 00:19:27.820 AMY GOODMAN: Let me ask you about 00:19:27.820 --> 00:19:30.570 a Justice Department official who’s leaving. 00:19:31.520 --> 00:19:33.740 This according to AP: The Justice Department 00:19:33.740 --> 00:19:36.360 is tightening its rules around obtaining records 00:19:36.360 --> 00:19:38.400 from members of Congress, 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:40.670 Attorney General Merrick Garland said, 00:19:40.670 --> 00:19:43.100 amidst revelations the department, under Trump, 00:19:43.100 --> 00:19:45.670 had secretly seized records from Democrats 00:19:45.670 --> 00:19:47.370 and members of the media. 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:51.270 Garland’s statement came as a Justice Department official 00:19:51.270 --> 00:19:53.680 said the top national security official, 00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:55.010 John — I think it’s — 00:19:55.010 --> 00:19:59.070 Demers, planned to leave by the end of next week. 00:19:59.070 --> 00:20:00.340 He was sworn in a few weeks 00:20:00.340 --> 00:20:02.870 after the subpoena of the Democrats’ records, 00:20:02.870 --> 00:20:05.680 one of the few Trump appointees who’s remained 00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:07.610 in the Biden administration. 00:20:07.610 --> 00:20:10.140 What’s his involvement with Reality’s case? 00:20:11.320 --> 00:20:13.240 ALISON GRINTER ALLEN: Well, his involvement 00:20:13.240 --> 00:20:15.380 is pretty crucial in Reality’s case. 00:20:16.410 --> 00:20:17.710 But it’s certainly not him. 00:20:17.710 --> 00:20:25.010 It’s fairly clear that the national security arm of the DOJ 00:20:25.010 --> 00:20:26.950 was very willing to be political. 00:20:28.530 --> 00:20:34.910 National security at DOJ was running her entire prosecution. 00:20:36.630 --> 00:20:38.529 Everything was coming from Washington. 00:20:39.040 --> 00:20:42.100 And it was very clear from the beginning 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:47.900 that this was going to be basically something 00:20:47.900 --> 00:20:49.750 that could be made an example of, 00:20:49.750 --> 00:20:54.220 that Reality could be made an example of and shown around 00:20:55.180 --> 00:21:02.090 to ice any kind of release of confidential information, 00:21:02.090 --> 00:21:05.250 especially information that embarrassed the president. 00:21:07.730 --> 00:21:08.940 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And in terms of this issue 00:21:08.940 --> 00:21:14.460 of embarrassing the president, wasn’t The Intercept article 00:21:14.460 --> 00:21:20.450 that supposedly Reality provided documents for — 00:21:21.080 --> 00:21:24.870 there was an NSA report from May of 2017 00:21:24.870 --> 00:21:28.150 that showed that the agency was convinced 00:21:28.810 --> 00:21:32.980 that the Russian General Staff Main Intelligence Directorate, 00:21:32.980 --> 00:21:35.860 or the GRU, was responsible for interfering 00:21:35.860 --> 00:21:38.500 in the 2016 presidential election? 00:21:40.060 --> 00:21:42.420 ALISON GRINTER ALLEN: Exactly. We’re not really sure 00:21:42.420 --> 00:21:46.540 when this information became top-secret, 00:21:46.540 --> 00:21:48.400 because, substantially, 00:21:49.350 --> 00:21:52.450 the conclusions of the intelligence 00:21:52.450 --> 00:21:56.420 had been made public under the Obama administration. 00:21:58.390 --> 00:22:01.850 So, it’s not even clear when this information was made 00:22:01.850 --> 00:22:05.650 to be top-secret that Reality released. 00:22:07.190 --> 00:22:08.420 AMY GOODMAN: Any other message 00:22:08.420 --> 00:22:10.270 for the Biden administration, Alison? 00:22:12.870 --> 00:22:15.260 ALISON GRINTER ALLEN: This is a wrong that can be set right. 00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:18.900 And for the health of the country, 00:22:18.900 --> 00:22:21.030 I think it needs to be. 00:22:21.030 --> 00:22:24.440 We’re living in such a divided society, 00:22:24.950 --> 00:22:28.340 and we are not going to be able to start healing 00:22:28.340 --> 00:22:30.820 until we forgive our truth tellers. 00:22:30.820 --> 00:22:34.200 And a pardon for Reality is an excellent first step 00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:38.150 for the country to start healing and putting this right. 00:22:39.380 --> 00:22:41.040 AMY GOODMAN: Well, Alison Grinter Allen, 00:22:41.040 --> 00:22:42.860 I want to thank you so much for being with us, 00:22:42.860 --> 00:22:44.510 attorney for Reality Winner, 00:22:44.510 --> 00:22:46.890 who’s just been released to a halfway house, 00:22:46.890 --> 00:22:49.430 will serve out her term ’til November there 00:22:49.430 --> 00:22:51.310 unless pardoned or sentence commuted. 00:22:51.870 --> 00:22:55.900 I want to end with the legendary whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg, 00:22:55.900 --> 00:22:57.580 the former defense analyst 00:22:57.580 --> 00:23:00.650 who leaked the Pentagon Papers in 1971, 00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:03.170 50 years ago this week. 00:23:03.810 --> 00:23:06.530 We spent the hour with Dan Ellsberg Monday 00:23:06.530 --> 00:23:07.980 on Democracy Now! 00:23:07.980 --> 00:23:10.290 and afterwards continued to talk to him 00:23:10.290 --> 00:23:14.130 and asked him about the former U.S. intelligence analyst 00:23:14.130 --> 00:23:17.120 Daniel Hale, who was unexpectedly arrested 00:23:17.120 --> 00:23:19.100 and jailed ahead of his sentencing, 00:23:19.100 --> 00:23:21.510 which is scheduled for July 13th. 00:23:21.510 --> 00:23:24.730 In March, he pleaded guilty to one count of violating 00:23:24.730 --> 00:23:27.570 the World War I-era Espionage Act 00:23:27.570 --> 00:23:31.120 for leaking classified documents about the secretive U.S. drone 00:23:31.120 --> 00:23:34.080 and targeted assassination programs. 00:23:34.080 --> 00:23:37.330 This is Ellsberg speaking about Daniel Hale. 00:23:38.250 --> 00:23:40.810 DANIEL ELLSBERG: I think what he did was very admirable. 00:23:40.810 --> 00:23:44.470 And it was not only simply passing on some documents 00:23:44.470 --> 00:23:45.740 or some information, 00:23:45.740 --> 00:23:48.310 but really carrying on, as he should, 00:23:48.310 --> 00:23:52.010 a campaign against the murderous aspect of this campaign. 00:23:52.010 --> 00:23:53.860 He acted very admirably, 00:23:53.860 --> 00:23:57.230 in a way that very, very few officials 00:23:57.230 --> 00:24:00.540 have ever done in showing the moral courage 00:24:00.540 --> 00:24:03.400 to separate themselves from criminal activities 00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:06.240 and wrongful activities of their own administration, 00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:08.830 and resist them, as well as exposing them. 00:24:08.830 --> 00:24:11.860 So, I would say he’s a particularly admirable person, 00:24:11.860 --> 00:24:15.140 especially one that should not be put in prison for this. 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:17.340 AMY GOODMAN: To see the full hour 00:24:17.340 --> 00:24:18.560 with Dan Ellsberg, 00:24:18.560 --> 00:24:20.270 as well as our post-show interview, 00:24:20.270 --> 00:24:22.570 you can go to democracynow.org. 00:24:23.110 --> 00:24:26.770 Next up, we turn to the historian Stephen Wertheim. 00:24:26.770 --> 00:24:29.070 As the NATO summit wraps up, 00:24:29.070 --> 00:24:32.060 he writes an op-ed piece in The New York Times headlined 00:24:32.060 --> 00:24:35.800 "Sorry, Liberals. But You Really Shouldn’t Love NATO." 00:24:35.800 --> 00:24:37.500 Stay with us. 00:25:44.070 --> 00:25:45.520 AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! 00:25:45.520 --> 00:25:47.870 I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González. 00:25:47.870 --> 00:25:50.640 China is warning NATO is adopting 00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:54.330 a "Cold War mentality" after the military alliance 00:25:54.330 --> 00:25:57.040 singled out China and Russia for criticism 00:25:57.040 --> 00:26:00.090 during the NATO summit in Brussels that just wrapped. 00:26:00.090 --> 00:26:02.800 President Biden successfully pushed NATO, 00:26:02.800 --> 00:26:05.680 the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, 00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:08.170 to declare China to be a security risk 00:26:08.170 --> 00:26:09.660 for the first time. 00:26:09.660 --> 00:26:13.100 In its final communiqué, NATO leaders said, quote, 00:26:13.100 --> 00:26:16.020 "China’s stated ambitions and assertive behavior 00:26:16.020 --> 00:26:19.420 present systemic challenges to the rules-based 00:26:19.420 --> 00:26:21.220 international order," unquote. 00:26:21.810 --> 00:26:24.280 NATO leaders also criticized Russia 00:26:24.280 --> 00:26:26.980 and called on Moscow to withdraw troops from Ukraine, 00:26:26.980 --> 00:26:29.170 Georgia and the Republic of Moldova. 00:26:29.170 --> 00:26:31.769 This is President Biden speaking in Brussels Monday. 00:26:32.670 --> 00:26:35.440 PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: There is a growing recognition 00:26:36.150 --> 00:26:41.470 over the last couple years that we have new challenges. 00:26:42.750 --> 00:26:46.170 And we have Russia that is not acting 00:26:46.170 --> 00:26:49.220 in a way that is consistent with what we had hoped, 00:26:49.940 --> 00:26:51.850 and as well as China. 00:26:53.210 --> 00:26:54.650 AMY GOODMAN: President Biden spoke 00:26:54.650 --> 00:26:58.060 alongside NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, 00:26:58.060 --> 00:27:00.050 who also criticized China. 00:27:00.900 --> 00:27:02.250 JENS STOLTENBERG: We are concerned 00:27:02.250 --> 00:27:04.320 by China’s coercive policies, 00:27:05.080 --> 00:27:08.300 which stand in contrast to the fundamental values 00:27:08.300 --> 00:27:10.050 enshrined in the Washington Treaty. 00:27:11.310 --> 00:27:14.400 China is rapidly expanding its nuclear arsenal 00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:18.060 with more warheads and a large number 00:27:18.060 --> 00:27:20.890 of sophisticated delivery systems. ... 00:27:21.400 --> 00:27:23.930 NATO leaders called on China 00:27:23.930 --> 00:27:26.600 to uphold its international commitments 00:27:26.600 --> 00:27:30.270 and to act responsibly in the international system, 00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:36.320 including in space, cyber and maritime domains, 00:27:36.320 --> 00:27:39.180 in keeping with its role as a major power. 00:27:39.970 --> 00:27:42.370 AMY GOODMAN: The Chinese Mission to the European Union 00:27:42.370 --> 00:27:45.080 responded to the NATO summit by saying, quote, 00:27:45.080 --> 00:27:48.380 "NATO is slandering China’s peaceful development 00:27:48.380 --> 00:27:50.970 and misjudging the international situation 00:27:50.970 --> 00:27:55.000 and its own role," end-quote. 00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:56.850 Today, President Biden is meeting 00:27:56.850 --> 00:27:58.200 with European Union leaders 00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:00.690 before heading to Geneva for his summit 00:28:00.690 --> 00:28:03.750 with Russian President Vladimir Putin. 00:28:03.750 --> 00:28:06.420 We’re joined now by the historian Stephen Wertheim, 00:28:06.420 --> 00:28:09.960 director of grand strategy at the Quincy Institute 00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:11.960 and a visiting faculty fellow at the Center 00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:15.150 for Global Legal Challenges at Yale Law School, 00:28:15.150 --> 00:28:17.790 author of the book Tomorrow, the World: 00:28:17.790 --> 00:28:20.910 The Birth of U.S. Global Supremacy. 00:28:20.910 --> 00:28:23.530 He has a new article in The New York Times headlined 00:28:23.530 --> 00:28:27.180 "Sorry, Liberals. But You Really Shouldn’t Love NATO." 00:28:27.930 --> 00:28:30.320 Welcome to Democracy Now!, Stephen Wertheim. 00:28:31.020 --> 00:28:33.410 Why don’t you talk about the NATO summit, 00:28:33.410 --> 00:28:37.420 this first-ever hit on China, 00:28:37.420 --> 00:28:40.400 in the way it was framed in the communiqué? 00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:45.510 Is President Biden leading to a new Cold War, 00:28:45.510 --> 00:28:47.310 both with China and Russia? 00:28:48.910 --> 00:28:50.320 STEPHEN WERTHEIM: It’s nice to be with you. 00:28:50.320 --> 00:28:56.660 I am concerned that, indeed, the administration may be moving 00:28:56.660 --> 00:29:02.390 toward a quite hostile posture toward China 00:29:02.390 --> 00:29:04.390 and Russia simultaneously. 00:29:04.390 --> 00:29:07.690 If it is doing so, it would be merely continuing a trend 00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:10.720 from the Trump administration, I must say. 00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:15.240 That said, though I think you are right to spotlight 00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:19.540 what was most remarkable about the outcome of yesterday’s 00:29:19.540 --> 00:29:24.520 NATO summit — namely, the identification of China 00:29:24.520 --> 00:29:29.320 as posing, quote-unquote, "systemic challenges" 00:29:29.320 --> 00:29:32.560 to the so-called rules-based international order — 00:29:33.290 --> 00:29:35.480 I do think it’s actually quite worrying, 00:29:36.460 --> 00:29:41.610 as far as the European members of NATO are concerned. 00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:49.290 Europe has, for quite some time, been reluctant to cast China 00:29:49.290 --> 00:29:53.090 as a threat, for understandable reasons. 00:29:53.090 --> 00:29:54.360 Many Europeans, 00:29:54.360 --> 00:29:58.000 including the leading powers of Germany and France, 00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:02.350 don’t want to make a choice, economically or otherwise, 00:30:02.350 --> 00:30:04.530 between the United States and China 00:30:04.530 --> 00:30:07.070 or between the United States and Russia. 00:30:07.070 --> 00:30:09.010 And it has been the United States 00:30:09.010 --> 00:30:11.280 that has been most concerned 00:30:11.280 --> 00:30:13.740 about the threats from both countries. 00:30:13.740 --> 00:30:18.070 And so, I think the NATO communiqué reflects 00:30:18.650 --> 00:30:23.980 NATO’s desire to at least look like the European members 00:30:23.980 --> 00:30:27.720 are as concerned about China as the United States. 00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:30.440 But to the extent that the United States 00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:35.360 will indeed focus on competition with China, in the longer term, 00:30:35.360 --> 00:30:39.240 that heralds a turn toward Asia 00:30:39.240 --> 00:30:41.630 and, therefore, away from Europe. 00:30:43.710 --> 00:30:44.990 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Stephen Wertheim, 00:30:44.990 --> 00:30:47.070 I wanted to ask you about this whole issue 00:30:47.070 --> 00:30:52.490 of this systemic challenge. The last time I looked, 00:30:53.260 --> 00:30:59.000 the United States had 800 military bases and installations 00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:02.180 in about 70 countries around the world. 00:31:02.760 --> 00:31:08.610 And apparently, China only has four military bases 00:31:08.610 --> 00:31:11.910 anywhere in the world. They’ve got one in Argentina. 00:31:11.910 --> 00:31:13.590 They’ve got a small one in Djibouti, 00:31:13.590 --> 00:31:16.010 which is part of the whole international campaign 00:31:16.010 --> 00:31:18.650 against piracy. They’ve got one in Myanmar, 00:31:18.650 --> 00:31:20.620 and they’ve got one in Tajikistan. 00:31:20.620 --> 00:31:23.130 This doesn’t sound like much of a threat to NATO 00:31:23.130 --> 00:31:25.190 or to the United States. 00:31:25.190 --> 00:31:28.850 And we’re not even mentioning that Turkey has expended 00:31:28.850 --> 00:31:32.250 all kinds of military bases, as a member nation of NATO, 00:31:32.250 --> 00:31:34.100 all around the world in recent years. 00:31:34.790 --> 00:31:40.150 So, why is this obsession with presidents of the U.S., 00:31:40.150 --> 00:31:42.680 whether it’s Biden or Trump, 00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:46.640 in continuing to paint China as some kind of a threat — 00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:49.030 not an economic competitor, which it is, 00:31:49.870 --> 00:31:52.419 and a growing economic competitor, but as a threat? 00:31:54.520 --> 00:31:57.570 STEPHEN WERTHEIM: Well, it is worrying for the reason you say. 00:31:58.140 --> 00:32:02.470 The language of systemic competition and challenge 00:32:02.470 --> 00:32:05.330 to the rules-based international order 00:32:05.990 --> 00:32:12.080 seems to lump all of the issues that China’s rise throws up. 00:32:12.080 --> 00:32:15.060 It lumps them together into one thing 00:32:15.060 --> 00:32:19.140 that seems to require a response in every domain. 00:32:19.760 --> 00:32:24.540 But China’s record militarily is vastly different 00:32:25.490 --> 00:32:28.260 from that of even the United States 00:32:28.260 --> 00:32:31.950 over the last few decades, I’m sorry to say. 00:32:31.950 --> 00:32:35.340 It’s not China that has scattered its troops 00:32:35.340 --> 00:32:38.320 all around the world on bases, as you say, 00:32:38.320 --> 00:32:42.960 or pursued missions to overturn regimes. 00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:45.680 China’s behavior is very worrying in a lot of respects. 00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:49.830 And I do actually think that the United States and Europe 00:32:49.830 --> 00:32:51.990 have a lot to cooperate on 00:32:51.990 --> 00:32:56.540 in terms of setting standards for technologies, for digital, 00:32:57.500 --> 00:33:03.590 to set rules economically that might constrain Chinese action 00:33:03.590 --> 00:33:05.720 to cooperate on climate change. 00:33:05.720 --> 00:33:08.880 There’s plenty of things for the United States and Europe 00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:11.530 to do together. That’s valuable. 00:33:11.530 --> 00:33:15.670 And that will, to some degree, constrain Chinese action, 00:33:15.670 --> 00:33:17.240 and that’s a good thing. 00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:21.550 But NATO is a military alliance. We have to remember that. 00:33:21.550 --> 00:33:27.160 And so, for NATO to be casting China in this way suggests 00:33:27.160 --> 00:33:31.380 that it does view China as something of a threat, 00:33:31.380 --> 00:33:35.490 although the NATO communiqué was careful to use 00:33:35.490 --> 00:33:38.430 the word "threat" toward Russia, 00:33:38.430 --> 00:33:42.710 but to use the lesser — less intense word "challenge" 00:33:43.480 --> 00:33:45.180 when it came to China. 00:33:46.560 --> 00:33:50.430 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And I’m wondering if you could comment on the G7, 00:33:50.430 --> 00:33:52.740 the new initiative they’re calling Build 00:33:52.740 --> 00:33:56.110 Back Better for the World, or B3W, 00:33:56.720 --> 00:33:59.240 as a possible alternative to China’s Belt 00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:00.560 and Road Initiative, 00:34:00.560 --> 00:34:02.730 because I don’t think many people in the United States 00:34:02.730 --> 00:34:06.130 appreciate the impact that China’s Belt and Road 00:34:06.130 --> 00:34:08.930 Initiative has had in the developing world, 00:34:08.930 --> 00:34:11.440 and also, in the period of the pandemic, 00:34:12.040 --> 00:34:16.940 its efforts to export vaccines. 00:34:16.940 --> 00:34:19.940 I think it’s now — China has already exported 00:34:19.940 --> 00:34:25.600 700 million doses to the rest of the world, 00:34:25.600 --> 00:34:29.500 which is about what the G7 is promising 00:34:29.500 --> 00:34:31.200 to do in the future. 00:34:31.990 --> 00:34:35.390 And it’s already, my understanding is, 00:34:35.970 --> 00:34:39.700 providing 20 million vaccinations per day 00:34:39.700 --> 00:34:40.940 to its own people. 00:34:40.940 --> 00:34:42.220 Whereas here in the United States 00:34:42.220 --> 00:34:44.690 we’re at 1, 2 million vaccinations per day, 00:34:44.690 --> 00:34:46.300 they’re doing 20 million per day. 00:34:46.300 --> 00:34:49.240 How does this, both the Belt and Road Initiative 00:34:49.240 --> 00:34:52.840 and its vaccine diplomacy, having an impact 00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:54.840 on how the rest of the world sees China? 00:34:56.000 --> 00:35:00.800 STEPHEN WERTHEIM: We saw the G7 on Friday act 00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:02.600 as though it needs to really meet 00:35:03.290 --> 00:35:06.290 China’s activity in both of these domains — 00:35:06.290 --> 00:35:12.410 vaccines and development aid. And that could be a good thing 00:35:12.410 --> 00:35:17.510 if it ends up generating productive forms of competition, 00:35:17.510 --> 00:35:21.520 if it means that the G7 become more generous 00:35:21.520 --> 00:35:25.300 with their provision of vaccine doses, 00:35:25.300 --> 00:35:30.220 if it means that development aid becomes more plentiful, 00:35:30.220 --> 00:35:33.020 which it has not been, from the West. 00:35:33.960 --> 00:35:37.180 This Build Back Better for the World thing 00:35:37.180 --> 00:35:40.520 is mostly a slogan or a hashtag at this point. 00:35:40.520 --> 00:35:46.350 It’s got an abbreviation, the three Bs or whatever it is, 00:35:46.350 --> 00:35:47.780 before it really has substance. 00:35:47.780 --> 00:35:51.610 So we’ll have to see what actually comes of it. 00:35:51.610 --> 00:35:57.850 The worrying aspect, though, would be that rather than create 00:35:57.850 --> 00:36:01.340 a kind of a race to the top, we have a race to the bottom. 00:36:01.340 --> 00:36:03.180 And for the developing world, 00:36:03.180 --> 00:36:05.690 there are increasing strings attached, 00:36:05.690 --> 00:36:09.090 whether they make a choice between China’s aid 00:36:09.090 --> 00:36:12.280 or U.S.-led Western aid. 00:36:12.280 --> 00:36:15.400 So, we need only to think back to the Cold War 00:36:16.300 --> 00:36:19.800 to think about what may be in store going forward, 00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:23.710 if indeed this kind of intense security competition, 00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:26.060 something like a Cold War, 00:36:26.570 --> 00:36:31.010 does set in between the West and China. 00:36:31.010 --> 00:36:32.920 On the one hand, in the Cold War, 00:36:32.920 --> 00:36:38.910 some members of the Global South were able to use their leverage, 00:36:39.500 --> 00:36:41.980 to use the interest of both sides 00:36:41.980 --> 00:36:43.920 to try to play them off each other 00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:45.300 and obtain more benefits. 00:36:45.300 --> 00:36:47.450 That could be good in certain circumstances. 00:36:47.450 --> 00:36:51.430 But then sometimes they found out that the superpowers 00:36:52.040 --> 00:36:53.430 were not pleased 00:36:53.430 --> 00:36:55.990 if they would take aid from one side, 00:36:56.670 --> 00:37:01.100 and such aid was cast as a threat to the other side 00:37:01.100 --> 00:37:04.440 and could lead to even the overthrow of governments. 00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:06.610 So, at this early stage, 00:37:06.610 --> 00:37:09.530 I don’t think we know which dynamic will prevail, 00:37:09.530 --> 00:37:13.150 but I have to say that the G7 did not come up 00:37:13.150 --> 00:37:18.440 with a terribly impressive number of vaccines 00:37:18.440 --> 00:37:20.440 that the members pledged 00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:23.660 to provide to the international facility 00:37:23.660 --> 00:37:25.970 that will be distributing vaccines. 00:37:25.970 --> 00:37:28.600 It was under a billion doses. 00:37:28.600 --> 00:37:31.260 Many, many more doses are needed, 00:37:31.260 --> 00:37:36.200 multiples of that number, in order to vaccinate the world. 00:37:36.200 --> 00:37:40.660 Now, perhaps this meeting will generate some momentum 00:37:40.660 --> 00:37:43.410 and further gains going forward, 00:37:43.410 --> 00:37:45.980 but it disappointed a lot of people, 00:37:47.560 --> 00:37:49.900 and there was a lot of criticism from, you know, 00:37:49.900 --> 00:37:54.340 the former U.K. leader, Gordon Brown, and WHO officials. 00:37:54.340 --> 00:37:55.610 AMY GOODMAN: You have, for example, 00:37:55.610 --> 00:37:56.830 in Trinidad and Tobago, 00:37:56.830 --> 00:38:02.330 the United States pledged something like 500 vaccines 00:38:02.330 --> 00:38:05.540 to Trinidad and Tobago; China, 200,000. 00:38:05.540 --> 00:38:07.810 But I wanted to ask you — in your piece 00:38:07.810 --> 00:38:09.230 in The New York Times, you write, 00:38:09.230 --> 00:38:11.950 "The danger of permanent subordination to America 00:38:12.660 --> 00:38:15.980 has started to register in European capitals, 00:38:15.980 --> 00:38:18.620 long solicitous of American commitment. 00:38:18.620 --> 00:38:20.880 President [Emmanuel​] Macron of France has accused 00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:23.290 NATO of experiencing 'brain death' 00:38:23.290 --> 00:38:26.610 and proposed creating an independent European army," 00:38:26.610 --> 00:38:29.080 independent of the United States. 00:38:29.080 --> 00:38:30.300 Can you talk about this? 00:38:30.300 --> 00:38:31.840 While there’s a lot of backslapping 00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:33.760 and "Oh, we’re back together again" 00:38:33.760 --> 00:38:36.650 in this 72-year-old military alliance that 00:38:36.650 --> 00:38:38.910 Trump said he wanted to get rid of, 00:38:39.660 --> 00:38:41.320 you also have a lot of tension here 00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:44.270 between European leaders and the United States, 00:38:44.270 --> 00:38:46.130 especially in the push 00:38:46.130 --> 00:38:48.910 against the pushback against China and Russia. 00:38:50.100 --> 00:38:52.420 STEPHEN WERTHEIM: Yeah, I think this is the main story, 00:38:52.420 --> 00:38:54.120 actually, of the NATO summit. 00:38:55.370 --> 00:38:59.920 The narrative that NATO wants to tell is about all these actions 00:38:59.920 --> 00:39:02.610 that will be taken against China and Russia, 00:39:02.610 --> 00:39:05.490 but very little under the surface 00:39:05.490 --> 00:39:08.490 was this notion that America’s commitment 00:39:08.490 --> 00:39:11.240 to NATO has come under question. 00:39:11.240 --> 00:39:13.710 And on both sides of the Atlantic, 00:39:13.710 --> 00:39:16.520 there’s a reckoning with whether the interests 00:39:16.520 --> 00:39:19.900 of the United States and the interests of Europe 00:39:19.900 --> 00:39:22.440 and its leading powers really do align 00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:27.120 so closely as to bind them into this military alliance. 00:39:27.720 --> 00:39:31.220 And so, President Biden was intent on having 00:39:31.760 --> 00:39:35.400 a clear statement that America is back, 00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:40.080 and he repeated that America has a "sacred obligation," 00:39:40.080 --> 00:39:41.320 "sacred" commitment — 00:39:41.320 --> 00:39:46.230 his words — to the collective defense provision of NATO. 00:39:46.830 --> 00:39:50.940 But this comes after, you know, not only the Trump presidency, 00:39:50.940 --> 00:39:56.740 but stirrings within European capitals to realize that, 00:39:56.740 --> 00:39:59.880 as German Chancellor Angela Merkel put it, 00:39:59.880 --> 00:40:03.270 Europe must truly take its destiny into its own hands. 00:40:03.890 --> 00:40:05.790 And now "strategic autonomy" 00:40:05.790 --> 00:40:08.830 has become the watchword in Brussels, 00:40:09.680 --> 00:40:12.240 where the idea is that, in some fashion, 00:40:12.240 --> 00:40:15.400 it would be that EU, independent of the United States, 00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:17.360 outside of NATO, 00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:20.860 that would become more of a force in security 00:40:20.860 --> 00:40:23.000 and military affairs. 00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:27.490 I think that’s quite a sensible idea at this point in history. 00:40:27.490 --> 00:40:31.240 And I think even Biden understands that his words 00:40:31.240 --> 00:40:33.580 about a "sacred" commitment matter 00:40:33.580 --> 00:40:37.790 much less than what America actually does, 00:40:37.790 --> 00:40:42.600 not just under his administration, but long after. 00:40:42.600 --> 00:40:46.400 And in addition to that, I think we’ve come to 00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:50.460 a kind of inflection point in the history of NATO 00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:53.830 after the collapse of the Soviet Union. 00:40:54.900 --> 00:40:56.710 It’s now very hard to see 00:40:56.710 --> 00:41:00.130 how NATO could possibly expand any further. 00:41:00.710 --> 00:41:03.850 And yesterday, the Ukrainian president, Zelensky, 00:41:03.850 --> 00:41:08.640 tried to send out a tweet that he had gotten these assurances 00:41:08.640 --> 00:41:12.280 that Ukraine would indeed become a member of NATO, 00:41:12.280 --> 00:41:14.610 which it’s been on a path to becoming — 00:41:14.610 --> 00:41:17.920 a very slow path, we should say — since 2008. 00:41:18.850 --> 00:41:23.190 And Biden was not very thrilled with that, it seemed, 00:41:23.190 --> 00:41:26.500 from the subsequent press conference, in which he said, 00:41:26.500 --> 00:41:29.150 "Well, Ukraine has to meet its obligations 00:41:29.150 --> 00:41:30.850 to become a member. We’ll see." 00:41:31.400 --> 00:41:33.820 You know, the jury is not out, essentially. 00:41:33.820 --> 00:41:35.550 And I think we have come to a point 00:41:35.550 --> 00:41:38.370 where it’s just very implausible, frankly, 00:41:38.370 --> 00:41:43.420 that Ukraine and Georgia would become NATO members 00:41:44.160 --> 00:41:49.280 and really pose a risk of direct conflict with Russia. 00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:52.990 So, what the Biden administration has not done 00:41:52.990 --> 00:41:57.920 is close the door on further expansion of NATO. 00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:00.500 And that might be, frankly, a valuable step, 00:42:00.500 --> 00:42:02.630 not just for the United States 00:42:03.230 --> 00:42:05.850 and for the other members of NATO, 00:42:05.850 --> 00:42:10.800 but even for Ukraine itself, which is hoping for membership, 00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:13.930 but I fear it’s being led down a false path, 00:42:13.930 --> 00:42:17.090 because the fact is that Germany and France 00:42:17.720 --> 00:42:20.890 oppose Ukraine’s membership. 00:42:20.890 --> 00:42:22.870 They oppose it for very good reasons, 00:42:22.870 --> 00:42:26.500 because it risks conflict and further conflict, 00:42:26.500 --> 00:42:29.670 given that there is an ongoing conflict in eastern Ukraine. 00:42:30.790 --> 00:42:32.050 AMY GOODMAN: So, president — 00:42:32.050 --> 00:42:33.300 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And I’m wondering — 00:42:33.300 --> 00:42:34.530 AMY GOODMAN: Go ahead, Juan. 00:42:34.530 --> 00:42:35.750 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Yeah, I’m wondering — 00:42:35.750 --> 00:42:38.550 back in October, you wrote a piece headlined 00:42:38.550 --> 00:42:41.500 "America Has No Reason to Be So Powerful." 00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:44.930 And I’m wondering what the — 00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:47.640 given the fact, as I mentioned before, 00:42:47.640 --> 00:42:52.360 this continued huge military footprint of the United States 00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:53.780 around the world, 00:42:53.780 --> 00:42:59.760 once you have such a humongous military-industrial complex, 00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:02.120 it must always find enemies, doesn’t it, 00:43:02.120 --> 00:43:04.660 to be able to justify its continued existence? 00:43:05.430 --> 00:43:07.220 And to what degree can the public, 00:43:07.220 --> 00:43:11.120 or even some political leaders, break away from this sense 00:43:11.120 --> 00:43:14.130 that the United States must be the policeman of the world? 00:43:15.900 --> 00:43:17.210 STEPHEN WERTHEIM: I share that concern. 00:43:17.210 --> 00:43:20.280 And I think the fact that the United States had built up not 00:43:20.280 --> 00:43:24.180 just its military-industrial complex domestically, 00:43:24.180 --> 00:43:28.210 but also its relationships and military positions 00:43:28.210 --> 00:43:32.360 globally, that explains a lot of the kind of inertia 00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:35.160 that we saw after the collapse of the Soviet Union, 00:43:35.160 --> 00:43:38.020 when you would think that the reason for being of this 00:43:38.020 --> 00:43:41.160 massive national security state had gone away. 00:43:41.720 --> 00:43:45.930 That said, I think we are seeing stirrings, 00:43:45.930 --> 00:43:49.330 at least, of change over the last decade or so. 00:43:50.120 --> 00:43:54.190 Everybody has to understand now that we are no longer living 00:43:54.190 --> 00:43:57.360 in the unipolar moment of the 1990s, 00:43:57.360 --> 00:44:00.970 when the United States was utterly dominant. 00:44:00.970 --> 00:44:03.130 Through that decade, it could cut its defense 00:44:03.130 --> 00:44:05.700 spending as a percentage of GDP 00:44:05.700 --> 00:44:09.990 only to emerge in a more unrivaled position 00:44:09.990 --> 00:44:12.750 than ever before by the end of the decade. 00:44:12.750 --> 00:44:17.630 Well, the rest of the world has not exactly caught up, 00:44:17.630 --> 00:44:20.400 but other countries have asserted themselves, 00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:22.220 and China, most of all, 00:44:22.220 --> 00:44:24.750 has dramatically risen economically, 00:44:25.550 --> 00:44:30.290 with military growth to match its economic growth. 00:44:30.970 --> 00:44:34.720 So, I think that, you know, most people in Washington, 00:44:34.720 --> 00:44:38.280 even if they don’t agree with some of what I write, 00:44:38.280 --> 00:44:41.110 understand that real change is necessary, 00:44:41.110 --> 00:44:46.130 and the United States cannot possibly continue to be 00:44:46.130 --> 00:44:49.870 the guarantor of about half of the world 00:44:49.870 --> 00:44:51.480 against the other half of the world 00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:53.350 where most of humanity are, 00:44:53.940 --> 00:44:59.800 thus turning that half into explicit or implicit threats. 00:45:00.900 --> 00:45:02.710 AMY GOODMAN: Stephen Wertheim, I wanted to ask you 00:45:02.710 --> 00:45:05.070 about what’s about to happen on Wednesday. 00:45:05.070 --> 00:45:09.040 That’s the Biden-Putin summit in Geneva. 00:45:09.040 --> 00:45:10.860 In a new interview on NBC, 00:45:11.980 --> 00:45:13.960 Putin criticized the United States 00:45:13.960 --> 00:45:16.770 for placing troops near the Russian border. 00:45:16.770 --> 00:45:18.320 PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN: [translated] 00:45:18.320 --> 00:45:19.730 Imagine that we sent our troops 00:45:19.730 --> 00:45:21.820 into direct proximity to your borders. 00:45:21.820 --> 00:45:23.210 What would be your response? 00:45:23.210 --> 00:45:25.820 We didn’t do that. We did it in our territory. 00:45:25.820 --> 00:45:27.430 You conducted war games in Alaska. 00:45:27.430 --> 00:45:28.660 Well, God bless you, 00:45:28.660 --> 00:45:31.040 but you crossed an ocean close to our borders, 00:45:31.040 --> 00:45:32.270 brought thousands of personnel 00:45:32.270 --> 00:45:34.380 and thousands of units of military equipment. 00:45:34.380 --> 00:45:36.390 And yet you believe that we are acting aggressively 00:45:36.390 --> 00:45:37.670 and somehow you’re not. 00:45:37.670 --> 00:45:40.070 Just look at that: pot calling the kettle black. 00:45:40.900 --> 00:45:42.260 AMY GOODMAN: Can you respond to this 00:45:42.260 --> 00:45:43.960 and also this back-and-forth? 00:45:43.960 --> 00:45:47.670 You know, President Biden calling Putin a killer, 00:45:48.300 --> 00:45:52.620 then NBC asked Putin about that, he laughed. 00:45:52.620 --> 00:45:56.490 And then, when Biden was asked about Putin laughing, 00:45:56.490 --> 00:45:58.190 Biden laughed. 00:46:00.740 --> 00:46:03.470 STEPHEN WERTHEIM: Well, I do think that both 00:46:03.470 --> 00:46:08.000 leaders are somewhat toning down their rhetorical barrages 00:46:08.530 --> 00:46:09.980 in advance of their summit, 00:46:09.980 --> 00:46:12.010 and that’s probably a good thing. 00:46:12.010 --> 00:46:16.590 I do want to give credit to the Biden administration 00:46:16.590 --> 00:46:18.290 and the president, in particular, 00:46:19.140 --> 00:46:22.680 for staunchly defending the value of diplomacy 00:46:22.680 --> 00:46:25.680 and making a point that the point of diplomacy 00:46:25.680 --> 00:46:28.730 is to meet with leaders of countries 00:46:29.270 --> 00:46:30.970 with whom we have issues; 00:46:31.520 --> 00:46:35.570 otherwise, we can pack it up, in terms of our diplomacy. 00:46:35.570 --> 00:46:37.270 So, that’s exactly right. 00:46:37.860 --> 00:46:42.610 And he’s trying to kind of tone down the, 00:46:42.610 --> 00:46:44.750 I would say, overheated rhetoric 00:46:44.750 --> 00:46:47.240 and personal rhetoric toward Vladimir Putin. 00:46:48.050 --> 00:46:50.300 I hope that the summit will prove productive 00:46:50.300 --> 00:46:53.750 beyond the symbolism, which is not without value itself. 00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:57.740 But the broader pattern, I think, 00:46:57.740 --> 00:47:00.560 needs to be considered, of U.S. policy, 00:47:01.080 --> 00:47:05.080 where indeed the United States has placed troops 00:47:05.080 --> 00:47:09.630 and made defense commitments that now span most of Europe, 00:47:10.600 --> 00:47:12.900 going right up to the borders of Russia 00:47:12.900 --> 00:47:20.060 in the cases of the Baltics and with Ukraine having a path, 00:47:20.060 --> 00:47:21.430 a potential path, 00:47:21.430 --> 00:47:25.110 toward membership in the U.S.-led NATO alliance. 00:47:25.110 --> 00:47:26.670 And it isn’t surprising, 00:47:26.670 --> 00:47:29.320 and indeed was predicted by many people, 00:47:29.320 --> 00:47:33.120 left and right and center, back in the 1990s, 00:47:33.120 --> 00:47:37.170 when NATO expansion was first put on the table 00:47:37.170 --> 00:47:42.920 and first endorsed — the Senate in 1998 held a vote 00:47:42.920 --> 00:47:46.480 to admit the first three new members of NATO. 00:47:46.480 --> 00:47:48.980 It was predicted at that time by many people — 00:47:48.980 --> 00:47:51.100 my piece in yesterday’s New York 00:47:51.100 --> 00:47:54.870 Times cites the Minnesota Senator Paul Wellstone, 00:47:55.410 --> 00:47:59.360 that the expansion of NATO would be seen by Russia, 00:47:59.360 --> 00:48:02.950 could not be seen otherwise by Russia, 00:48:03.680 --> 00:48:07.820 except as a threat to itself, 00:48:07.820 --> 00:48:10.360 even if, for some period of time, 00:48:10.360 --> 00:48:13.150 it wouldn’t have the capacity to respond, 00:48:13.150 --> 00:48:15.960 given its economic travails in the wake 00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:17.990 of the collapse of the Soviet Union. 00:48:17.990 --> 00:48:21.730 And now that expansion has been taken, I fear, too far. 00:48:22.300 --> 00:48:26.140 And so, we’ve created a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. 00:48:26.140 --> 00:48:29.250 And this is not to defend many of the actions 00:48:29.250 --> 00:48:31.470 that Russia has taken, 00:48:32.220 --> 00:48:35.350 including the annexation of Crimea, 00:48:35.350 --> 00:48:38.520 its support for separatists in the Donbas region of Ukraine, 00:48:39.080 --> 00:48:43.620 but, you know, wise diplomats and political leaders 00:48:43.620 --> 00:48:46.220 will understand how other countries view 00:48:46.220 --> 00:48:48.660 their vital interests and listen to those countries 00:48:48.660 --> 00:48:53.670 when they repeatedly make clear what those vital interests are. 00:48:53.670 --> 00:48:55.950 So, I fear that we’ve set ourselves 00:48:55.950 --> 00:49:01.760 on a path of a self-fulfilling prophecy in generating conflict. 00:49:01.760 --> 00:49:05.970 And what I worry about is that if the United States, 00:49:05.970 --> 00:49:08.520 in particular, doesn’t break this pattern, 00:49:08.520 --> 00:49:12.520 it sets us up for the next two, 00:49:12.520 --> 00:49:17.020 three decades — my lifetime, my children’s lifetime — to be, 00:49:17.020 --> 00:49:24.650 at best, involved in intense standoffs with Russia and China, 00:49:25.220 --> 00:49:27.720 and perhaps others around the world. 00:49:27.720 --> 00:49:31.590 And at worst, it sets us up for a great power war, 00:49:31.590 --> 00:49:32.850 for World War III. 00:49:32.850 --> 00:49:36.040 Is that really what the American people need 00:49:36.610 --> 00:49:38.400 for the rest of the 21st century? 00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:39.660 AMY GOODMAN: Historian Stephen Wertheim, 00:49:39.660 --> 00:49:40.930 I want to thank you for being with us, 00:49:40.930 --> 00:49:42.870 director of grand strategy at the Quincy Institute, 00:49:42.870 --> 00:49:44.450 visiting faculty fellow at the Center 00:49:44.450 --> 00:49:47.480 for Global Legal Challenges at Yale Law School. 00:49:47.480 --> 00:49:49.110 We’ll link to your piece in The New York Times, 00:49:49.110 --> 00:49:52.380 "Sorry, Liberals. But You Really Shouldn’t Love NATO." 00:49:52.380 --> 00:49:54.320 His book, Tomorrow, the World: 00:49:54.320 --> 00:49:56.650 The Birth of U.S. Global Supremacy. 00:49:56.650 --> 00:49:57.950 Coming up, we go to Puerto Rico, 00:49:57.950 --> 00:50:01.390 which suffered a massive blackout in the last days, 00:50:01.390 --> 00:50:03.980 just days after the island’s electrical system 00:50:03.980 --> 00:50:06.380 was privatized. Back in 30 seconds. 00:51:07.660 --> 00:51:08.910 AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! 00:51:08.910 --> 00:51:10.340 I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González. 00:51:10.340 --> 00:51:12.150 We end today’s show in Puerto Rico, 00:51:12.150 --> 00:51:15.400 where nearly a million people lost power last Thursday 00:51:15.400 --> 00:51:17.550 after a fire at an electrical substation 00:51:17.550 --> 00:51:18.780 in the capital San Juan. 00:51:18.780 --> 00:51:20.860 The massive blackout came just days 00:51:20.860 --> 00:51:23.230 after the private U.S. and Canadian company 00:51:23.230 --> 00:51:26.180 LUMA Energy formally took over management 00:51:26.180 --> 00:51:29.050 of the island’s electric grid from PREPA — 00:51:29.050 --> 00:51:31.610 that’s the Puerto Rico Electric Power Authority — 00:51:31.610 --> 00:51:34.120 which was devastated by Hurricane Maria. 00:51:34.120 --> 00:51:36.480 LUMA said it also faced a cyberattack 00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:38.580 shortly before a fire. 00:51:38.580 --> 00:51:42.190 Many people are still without power, facing ongoing blackouts. 00:51:42.190 --> 00:51:45.290 The union for Puerto Rico Electric Power Authority, 00:51:45.290 --> 00:51:48.210 for PREPA, fought to block the privatization. 00:51:48.210 --> 00:51:50.190 Puerto Rico’s Fiscal Control Board, 00:51:50.190 --> 00:51:52.110 the mechanism put in place by Congress 00:51:52.110 --> 00:51:55.430 to manage its public debt, has pushed an austerity agenda 00:51:55.430 --> 00:51:58.060 that includes privatization of public assets 00:51:58.060 --> 00:51:59.690 like the electrical grid. 00:51:59.690 --> 00:52:02.060 This is Jocelyn Velázquez with the group, 00:52:02.060 --> 00:52:04.650 in English, Promises Are Over. 00:52:04.650 --> 00:52:08.770 JOCELYN VELÁZQUEZ: [translated] It’s the financial control board 00:52:08.770 --> 00:52:11.650 that’s promoting and imposing the LUMA contract 00:52:11.650 --> 00:52:13.140 above the will of the people, 00:52:13.140 --> 00:52:15.120 above the will of the thousands of people 00:52:15.120 --> 00:52:17.669 who right now do not have power in their homes. ... 00:52:19.470 --> 00:52:21.580 That’s the reason we are here today, 00:52:21.580 --> 00:52:23.900 because the board hides inside this building 00:52:23.900 --> 00:52:26.200 while it continues to reduce your pensions, 00:52:26.200 --> 00:52:27.910 while it continues to cut the funding 00:52:27.910 --> 00:52:29.830 of Puerto Rico’s university, 00:52:29.830 --> 00:52:32.880 while it continues to cut funds for education and health. 00:52:33.490 --> 00:52:34.990 AMY GOODMAN: For more, we go to Adjuntas, 00:52:34.990 --> 00:52:38.220 Puerto Rico, to speak with Arturo Massol-Deyá, 00:52:38.220 --> 00:52:40.810 who is the executive director of Casa Pueblo, 00:52:40.810 --> 00:52:42.150 House of the People, 00:52:42.150 --> 00:52:44.610 a community-based natural resources conservation 00:52:44.610 --> 00:52:46.270 and sustainable development group. 00:52:46.270 --> 00:52:49.420 He’s also a faculty member at University of Puerto Rico. 00:52:49.420 --> 00:52:50.810 Welcome back to Democracy Now! 00:52:50.810 --> 00:52:52.450 Last time, you were in our studio; 00:52:52.450 --> 00:52:54.190 now you’re back in Puerto Rico. 00:52:54.190 --> 00:52:56.560 Talk about the significance of this blackout 00:52:56.560 --> 00:52:59.380 and the privatization of the power company. 00:52:59.380 --> 00:53:00.700 ARTURO MASSOL-DEYÁ: Well, I have to say 00:53:00.700 --> 00:53:04.510 that the transition from the public utility to LUMA 00:53:05.040 --> 00:53:06.740 had been happening for a year. 00:53:07.900 --> 00:53:10.360 Right after they took over two weeks ago, 00:53:10.910 --> 00:53:14.760 Puerto Rico started to confront different problems 00:53:14.760 --> 00:53:18.120 at different locations in multiple municipalities. 00:53:18.120 --> 00:53:21.500 And it seems like LUMA has been incapable 00:53:21.500 --> 00:53:23.550 to fulfill their responsibilities. 00:53:24.370 --> 00:53:29.570 From 2,000 linemen, people that the public utility used to have, 00:53:29.570 --> 00:53:33.170 it was down to 700 because of the austerity measurements 00:53:33.850 --> 00:53:35.670 before Hurricane Maria, 00:53:35.670 --> 00:53:40.160 and now it’s down to 300 in the private company. 00:53:40.160 --> 00:53:42.900 So, it’s impossible to keep the system 00:53:42.900 --> 00:53:46.440 running with that level of workforce. 00:53:47.000 --> 00:53:48.210 It’s incredible. 00:53:48.210 --> 00:53:51.420 Instead of moving forward, we’re going backwards. 00:53:51.420 --> 00:53:54.180 And people are getting in a hurricane mode. 00:53:54.740 --> 00:53:57.620 People are getting ready, taking measurements, 00:53:57.620 --> 00:54:01.150 like a hurricane or an earthquake just went through 00:54:01.150 --> 00:54:02.850 Puerto Rico. Incredible. 00:54:05.080 --> 00:54:06.560 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Arturo Massol, 00:54:06.560 --> 00:54:11.330 I wanted to ask you, back in 2015, when this crisis — 00:54:11.330 --> 00:54:13.750 when the debt crisis in Puerto Rico 00:54:13.750 --> 00:54:16.380 finally erupted into public view, 00:54:17.290 --> 00:54:19.700 I said back then, in a presentation, 00:54:19.700 --> 00:54:22.880 that the crown jewel of Puerto Rico, 00:54:22.880 --> 00:54:25.760 as far as American capitalism was concerned, 00:54:25.760 --> 00:54:30.630 was PREPA, because at the time it was the largest publicly 00:54:30.630 --> 00:54:36.730 owned utility under any territory under the U.S. flag, 00:54:36.730 --> 00:54:39.740 and that there was going to be a privatization effort. 00:54:39.740 --> 00:54:44.730 I’m wondering if you can talk about how this developed 00:54:44.730 --> 00:54:46.710 and how now you’re in a situation 00:54:46.710 --> 00:54:49.760 where not only are they trying to privatize — 00:54:49.760 --> 00:54:55.310 or, have successfully begun to privatize the electric system, 00:54:55.310 --> 00:54:58.570 but that they’re preventing grassroots movements 00:54:58.570 --> 00:55:00.270 to develop solar energy. 00:55:01.280 --> 00:55:03.700 ARTURO MASSOL-DEYÁ: This is a classic example 00:55:03.700 --> 00:55:05.400 of disaster capitalism. 00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:09.920 All the austerity measurements, disinvestment 00:55:09.920 --> 00:55:13.520 on the public utility caused all the problems 00:55:13.520 --> 00:55:16.050 that we confronted after Hurricane Maria, 00:55:16.050 --> 00:55:19.590 and that was used as an excuse to privatize, yes. 00:55:20.130 --> 00:55:22.980 And what that is setting is to perpetuate 00:55:22.980 --> 00:55:26.210 the model of colonialism over Puerto Rico 00:55:26.210 --> 00:55:28.380 by building a private monopoly 00:55:28.380 --> 00:55:31.270 instead of democratizing energy generation 00:55:31.270 --> 00:55:36.940 by having people investing in energy security 00:55:36.940 --> 00:55:41.340 — people, instead of being just consumers, become producers 00:55:41.340 --> 00:55:45.200 and to participate in power generation in Puerto Rico. 00:55:45.200 --> 00:55:49.680 This is basically going the opposite direction. 00:55:49.680 --> 00:55:51.480 What they’re doing is perpetuating 00:55:51.480 --> 00:55:54.750 the same centralized energy generation setup 00:55:54.750 --> 00:55:58.910 based on fossil fuels. It’s not climate adaptation. 00:55:58.910 --> 00:56:02.310 It’s not good for economic activation. 00:56:02.310 --> 00:56:06.680 It’s good for them, for creating wealth 00:56:07.690 --> 00:56:10.160 based on Puerto Rico’s exploitation. 00:56:12.580 --> 00:56:14.830 This is going the wrong way. 00:56:14.830 --> 00:56:18.720 It’s not responsible with the climate challenge 00:56:18.720 --> 00:56:20.950 that we’re facing in this planet. 00:56:22.200 --> 00:56:25.060 And it’s not good for self-determination, 00:56:25.060 --> 00:56:27.700 for the future self- determination of Puerto Rico. 00:56:27.700 --> 00:56:31.740 What we should be doing is building energy independence, 00:56:32.460 --> 00:56:37.330 energy self-sufficiency, people producing their own energy, 00:56:37.330 --> 00:56:42.640 participating in the whole power structure 00:56:42.640 --> 00:56:46.480 and putting Puerto Rico in a better position 00:56:46.480 --> 00:56:50.050 to make a political decision for our future. 00:56:50.050 --> 00:56:52.470 Even if we want to become a state, 00:56:52.470 --> 00:56:54.950 we need energy independence. 00:56:54.950 --> 00:56:57.440 And if we want to become a republic, 00:56:57.440 --> 00:57:00.910 an independent state, we need energy independence, as well. 00:57:00.910 --> 00:57:03.330 So, it’s not just a political discussion 00:57:03.330 --> 00:57:05.170 about self-determination. 00:57:05.170 --> 00:57:08.760 It’s actually the actions that need to be — 00:57:08.760 --> 00:57:10.760 that we need to take. 00:57:10.760 --> 00:57:14.210 And the U.S. is not doing their part. 00:57:14.210 --> 00:57:17.440 To do investments for the local wealth bin 00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:24.280 is basically doing federal money transfer to Puerto Rico 00:57:24.280 --> 00:57:27.440 that are going directly to U.S. companies 00:57:27.440 --> 00:57:29.590 instead of Puerto Ricans. 00:57:31.220 --> 00:57:32.740 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Yeah, and we only have about a minute 00:57:32.740 --> 00:57:34.530 and a half left, but I wanted to ask you — 00:57:34.530 --> 00:57:37.920 the labor unions in Puerto Rico had planned a general strike 00:57:37.920 --> 00:57:40.920 in response to the privatization of the power system. 00:57:40.920 --> 00:57:42.470 Talk about the role of the unions, 00:57:42.470 --> 00:57:45.360 especially since the electrical workers’ union 00:57:45.360 --> 00:57:48.450 had long had a history of being one of the most militant unions, 00:57:48.450 --> 00:57:52.190 but now most of its members have been laid off. 00:57:53.780 --> 00:57:57.020 ARTURO MASSOL-DEYÁ: Yeah. Well, actually, the labor union, 00:57:57.020 --> 00:58:00.090 I think it was a great asset of the public utility, 00:58:00.090 --> 00:58:02.580 and it has been dismantled. 00:58:02.580 --> 00:58:06.040 So, that’s the weakest part of the private utility right now. 00:58:06.040 --> 00:58:07.920 The workforce is not there. 00:58:08.830 --> 00:58:13.010 They are preparing for — to confront this privatization. 00:58:13.910 --> 00:58:16.400 I think LUMA is doing the right thing — 00:58:16.400 --> 00:58:19.000 I mean, LUMA is contributing 00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:20.820 because they are not fulfilling their part. 00:58:20.820 --> 00:58:22.619 People are getting angry, desperate, 00:58:23.550 --> 00:58:25.400 and we need to take action somehow. 00:58:27.780 --> 00:58:29.190 AMY GOODMAN: Well, we want to thank you so much, 00:58:29.190 --> 00:58:32.250 Arturo Massol, executive director of Casa Pueblo, 00:58:32.250 --> 00:58:33.810 speaking to us from Puerto Rico. 00:58:33.810 --> 00:58:35.830 We’ll continue to follow what’s happening there. 00:58:35.830 --> 00:58:37.800 Special thanks to Juan Carlos Dávila. 00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:39.040 That does it for our show. 00:58:39.040 --> 00:58:41.820 Tomorrow we’ll be joined by The Nation publisher 00:58:41.820 --> 00:58:44.440 to talk about the Biden-Putin summit. 00:58:44.440 --> 00:58:46.970 And we’ll also talk about ranked-choice voting 00:58:46.970 --> 00:58:49.510 and the New York City mayoral race. 00:58:49.510 --> 00:58:50.960 That’s tomorrow on Democracy Now! 00:58:50.960 --> 00:58:53.410 Democracy Now! produced with Renée Feltz, Mike Burke, 00:58:53.410 --> 00:58:55.280 Deena Guzder, Nermeen Shaikh, María Taracena, 00:58:55.280 --> 00:58:57.240 Carla Wills, Tami Woronoff, Charina Nadura. 00:58:57.240 --> 00:58:59.820 I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González. Stay safe.