WEBVTT

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From New York,
this is Democracy Now!

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Human Rights Watch
conducted in-depth

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investigations
into three Israeli

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strikes that killed
62 Palestinian civilians

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and involved serious violations
of the laws of war

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and apparent war crimes.

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Human Rights

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Watch is calling
on the International Criminal

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Court to open
a war crimes probe of Israel

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over its assault on Gaza,

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which killed 260 Palestinians,
including 66 children.

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We’ll air a disturbing
video report

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documenting
the group’s findings.

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Plus, we look at the fallout

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from Ben & Jerry’s decision
to halt ice cream

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sales in Israeli settlements
in the occupied West Bank.

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The Israeli government claims
the move is antisemitic

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and wants the company
prosecuted in the U.S.

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under anti-boycott laws.

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But many Jewish groups,
including J Street,

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support Ben & Jerry’s decision.

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We’ve been outraged
and appalled, frankly,

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by the over-the-top aggressive
attacks on Ben & Jerry’s.

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Plus, we go to Guatemala,

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where thousands took
to the streets

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Thursday for a national strike
demanding the resignation

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of right-wing President
Alejandro Giammattei.

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We are sick and tired of living
in this situation.

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Starting today,
we are not going

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to let this corrupt
government rest.

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Starting today, the people have
to be more united than ever,

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because we must stop
this injustice.

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The protests in Guatemala follow
the ouster of the nation’s

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top anti-corruption prosecutor,

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who was then forced to flee
Guatemala in fear for his life.

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All that and more, coming up.

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Welcome to Democracy Now!,
democracynow.org,

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The War and Peace Report.
I’m Amy Goodman.

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President Biden has announced
new requirements

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for civilian federal employees
amid the surge in COVID-19 cases

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from the rapidly
spreading Delta variant.

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President Joe Biden:

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"Every federal
government employee

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will be asked to attest
to their vaccination status.

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Anyone who does not attest

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or is not vaccinated
will be required to mask,

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no matter where they work;
test one or two times a week

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to see if they’ve acquired
COVID; socially distance;

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and, generally, will not be
allowed to travel for work."

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Biden also directed the Pentagon
to work toward a vaccine mandate

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for all military members
and called on states

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and local governments
to use federal funding

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they received to offer a $100
incentive for vaccinations.

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New York City is launching
that initiative today.

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Meanwhile, Washington, D.C.,

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is the latest area to reinstate
an indoor mask mandate for all.

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According to an internal CDC
report,

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infections of the Delta variant

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could be just as transmissible
from breakthrough infections

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in vaccinated people
as from the unvaccinated

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and could be more severe —

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with each infected person able
to infect eight to nine others.

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The document also said
the Delta variant

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is as contagious
as chicken pox

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and more contagious
than the viruses

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that cause the common cold,

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the seasonal flu and other
easily transmitted illnesses.

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The House is expected
to consider a bill today

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which would extend a nationwide
moratorium on evictions,

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set to expire Saturday,

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as nearly 12 million people
in the U.S. are behind on rent.

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On Thursday,
Biden urged Congress

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to find a way
to extend the ban

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since the CDC
is no longer able to do

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so as a result of a Supreme
Court ruling last month.

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Britain’s U.N. ambassador
has warned

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that half of Burma’s population
of 54 million

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could contract COVID-19
in the next two weeks

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amid the ongoing turmoil

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following a military coup
in February.

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Pakistan is enacting
an air travel ban

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for anyone who cannot provide
a vaccine certificate.

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It is also mandating all public
sector workers get vaccinated,

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as well as public transport
and retail staff,

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and teachers and students
18 and older.

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Meanwhile, record cases
have been reported across Japan

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and in Tokyo this week
as the Olympics continue.

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Israel said it will be offering

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booster shots
of the Pfizer vaccine

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to people over 60,
the first country to do so.

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This despite less than 10%
of Palestinians

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in the Occupied Territories
having been fully vaccinated.

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The European Union pulled ahead
of the U.S.

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this week
in its rate of vaccination

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after a slow rollout
earlier in the year.

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In July, the EU has given shots

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at four times
the pace of the U.S.

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In Haiti,

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health workers say hospitals
are becoming overwhelmed

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due to a surge in cases
as the country grapples

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with a worsening economic
and political crisis

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in the wake of the assassination
of President Jovenel Moïse.

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This is hospital director
Dr. Nathalie Colas.

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Dr. Nathalie Colas:
’’Sometimes

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we have almost 60 patients
at the hospital who need oxygen,

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while we only have
10 oxygen tanks available.

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The areas where we could
get oxygen are inaccessible.

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It is a very stressful situation
for us at the hospital."

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Both the House and Senate
passed a $2.1 billion emergency

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spending package
for Capitol security,

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in response
to a funding crisis

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incurred by
the January 6 insurrection.

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The measure also includes funds
for resettling Afghans

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who worked with U.S.

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forces during the occupation
of their country.

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The first evacuation flight
for Afghan interpreters

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and others arrived
at Washington Dulles Airport

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earlier this morning.

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A new watchdog report says over
80 Afghan troops

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were killed during
the Taliban offensive

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this spring in more than
two dozen insider attacks

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as the U.S. withdrawal
was underway.

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In other news from Afghanistan,

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at least 80 people
have been killed in flash floods

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in a Taliban-controlled village
in Nuristan province.

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Scientists warn extreme
weather events will get worse

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due to the climate catastrophe.

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The United States is returning
some 17,000

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archaeological treasures to Iraq

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that were looted
during the decades of war

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and U.S. occupation.

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Some of the artifacts
date back 4,000 years.

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Baghdad’s culture minister
praised the move

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as an unprecedented restitution.

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The U.S. is reportedly planning
to impose sanctions

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on Iran’s drone
and guided missile programs.

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This comes following reports
the Biden administration

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is weighing tightening
oil sanctions on Iran

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if talks to relaunch
the nuclear deal —

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which the U.S. unilaterally
withdrew from — fail.

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Iran has repeatedly said it will
not recommit to the agreement

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until the U.S. lifts
its devastating sanctions.

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In the occupied West Bank,

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Israeli forces shot dead
a Palestinian man at a protest

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that took place during
the funeral

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of a 12-year-old
Palestinian boy killed by Israel

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just one day earlier.

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Twenty-year-old
Shawkat Khalid Awad

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reportedly died
from gunshot wounds

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to the head and the stomach.

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Israeli forces also fired
tear gas, rubber-coated bullets

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and stun grenades
at the mourners.

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In Hong Kong,
the first protester to be tried

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under a sweeping
national security law

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was sentenced to nine years

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for inciting terrorism
and secessionism.

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Tong Ying-kit was arrested
in 2020

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while riding a motorbike
and flying a flag

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with the slogan
"liberate Hong Kong,

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revolution of our times."

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Over 100 people have been
arrested under the legislation

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following months of
massive mobilizations in 2019.

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In climate news,

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researchers found Greenland lost
8.5 billion tons of surface mass

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due to ice melting over
just one day this week —

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an event that’s only happened
three times in the last decade.

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That melt is large enough

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to cover
the entire state of Florida

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in at least
two inches of water.

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A Massachusetts court
has charged Theodore McCarrick,

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the former archbishop
of Washington, D.C.,

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with sexually
assaulting a 16-year-old boy

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during a wedding reception
in 1974.

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The 91-year-old McCarrick,
who was defrocked in 2019,

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is the highest-ranking
Catholic official in the U.S.

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to face criminal charges
for sex crimes.

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Massachusetts law
stops the clock

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on the statute of limitations

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if someone accused
of a crime leaves the state.

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Missouri Congressmember
Cori Bush

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has introduced
the Unhoused Bill of Rights.

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The bill would protect the human
rights of unhoused people,

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including freedom from
harassment by law enforcement.

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It would also work
to permanently end

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the unhoused crisis by 2025
through increasing

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affordable housing,
universal housing vouchers

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and ensuring funding
of essential social services

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and housing programs.
This is Congressmember Bush.

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Rep. Cori Bush:

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"I sit here today as a formerly
unhoused congressmember.

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I am outraged.

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There is no reason
we can fund wars and weapons,

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but we can’t provide universal
housing and healthcare.

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The urgency of this crisis
has never been clearer,

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as the COVID-19 pandemic
has exposed

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just how many
of our neighbors

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live one missed paycheck away
from becoming unhoused."

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In Brooklyn, New York,
the mutual aid collective

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The Gym is speaking out
after they were attacked

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at their storefront space
in Bushwick

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by the NYPD over the weekend.

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Fourteen people were arrested,
one person was hospitalized,

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and others injured.
New York officials have called

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for an investigation
into the attack.

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Members of The Gym held a press
conference earlier this week.

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Member of The Gym:

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"This community
experienced a brutal

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crackdown by every force
and tool of the NYPD

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against a community center
and safe space.

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Sent by a millionaire landlord
who wasn’t here and doesn’t live

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or have an office
in the five boroughs,

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they spent hundreds
of thousands of dollars

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on Saturday’s violence,

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followed by
a further four-plus days

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of round-the-clock
surveillance. ...

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You can’t stop us,

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because we mean we will be here
every day with our neighbors

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until the world’s
ample resources

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are freely available to all."

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New York City police arrested
at least 11 people

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who shut down a Lower Manhattan
street in front of City Hall

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at a "Housing Not Shelters"
demonstration Thursday.

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Housing rights advocates
were calling out the city’s plan

00:11:20.590 --> 00:11:22.680
to transfer thousands
of unhoused people

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from hotels back
to shelters,

00:11:24.750 --> 00:11:26.820
where they face
increased precarity

00:11:26.820 --> 00:11:28.640
and possible COVID exposure.

00:11:29.500 --> 00:11:32.270
Hundreds of striking
Alabama coal miners

00:11:32.270 --> 00:11:33.820
traveled to New York City
this week

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and held a protest in front
of the offices of hedge fund

00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:40.950
BlackRock, the largest
shareholder of Warrior Met Coal.

00:11:40.950 --> 00:11:44.240
Over 1,000 members of the United
Mine Workers of America

00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:47.590
have been on strike
since April 1

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after rejecting
a new contract

00:11:49.430 --> 00:11:51.770
that refused to restore
their full pay,

00:11:51.770 --> 00:11:54.940
after miners
took a pay cut in 2016

00:11:54.940 --> 00:11:57.250
to help keep
the company afloat.

00:11:58.300 --> 00:12:01.550
Carl Levin, longtime liberal
senator from Michigan,

00:12:01.550 --> 00:12:04.320
passed away at the age of 87.

00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:06.740
He was known for doggedly
pursuing tax fraud

00:12:06.740 --> 00:12:09.440
and going after Wall Street’s
financial crimes.

00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:12.000
Levin also led opposition
to the resolution

00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:15.950
that granted then-President Bush
authority to invade Iraq.

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He served from 1979 to 2015.

00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:20.820
A 25-foot totem pole
from the Lummi Nation

00:12:20.820 --> 00:12:25.350
arrived in Washington, D.C.,
after a more than 20,000-mile

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cross-country journey
through sacred lands.

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Interior Secretary Deb Haaland
and tribal leaders

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blessed the pole Thursday during
a ceremony on the National Mall.

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It was carved from
a 400-year-old red cedar tree

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and will serve to raise
awareness of Native issues

00:12:42.050 --> 00:12:43.860
and protecting sacred sites.

00:12:44.490 --> 00:12:46.760
And those are some of the
headlines this is Democracy

00:12:46.760 --> 00:12:50.180
Now, Democracynow.org,
the War and Peace Report.

00:12:50.180 --> 00:12:52.190
I’m Amy Goodman.

00:12:52.190 --> 00:12:53.420
AMY GOODMAN: Human Rights Watch

00:12:53.420 --> 00:12:55.170
is calling on
the International Criminal

00:12:55.170 --> 00:12:57.720
Court to open a probe
into apparent Israeli

00:12:57.720 --> 00:12:59.910
war crimes committed
during its recent

00:12:59.910 --> 00:13:04.470
11-day assault on Gaza
that killed 260 Palestinians,

00:13:04.470 --> 00:13:08.080
including 66 children.
Human Rights

00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:10.450
Watch concluded Israel
had committed apparent

00:13:10.450 --> 00:13:13.630
war crimes, after closely
examining three

00:13:13.630 --> 00:13:17.900
Israeli strikes that killed
62 Palestinian civilians in May.

00:13:18.740 --> 00:13:20.960
U.S.-made weapons
were used in at least

00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:22.690
two of the attacks
investigated.

00:13:22.690 --> 00:13:23.930
Human Rights

00:13:23.930 --> 00:13:27.000
Watch released this video
to accompany its new report.

00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:28.230
A warning to our audience:

00:13:28.230 --> 00:13:30.400
The video contains
graphic content,

00:13:30.400 --> 00:13:33.890
including the sounds of
military attacks on civilians.

00:13:35.040 --> 00:13:36.820
NARRATOR:
On May 10, 2021,

00:13:38.790 --> 00:13:40.680
11 days of hostilities began

00:13:40.680 --> 00:13:43.780
between the Israeli military
and Palestinian armed groups,

00:13:43.780 --> 00:13:46.660
including Hamas,
in the Gaza Strip and Israel.

00:13:48.930 --> 00:13:51.530
The fighting took place
amid escalating repression

00:13:51.530 --> 00:13:53.350
in occupied East Jerusalem

00:13:53.350 --> 00:13:55.550
and the prolonged closure
of the Gaza Strip.

00:13:56.450 --> 00:13:58.450
These policies
and practices reflect

00:13:58.450 --> 00:14:00.960
the Israeli government’s
crimes against humanity

00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:02.820
of apartheid
and persecution.

00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:13.540
Human Rights Watch conducted

00:14:13.540 --> 00:14:16.200
in-depth investigations
into three Israeli

00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:19.530
strikes that killed
62 Palestinian civilians

00:14:19.530 --> 00:14:22.520
and involved serious violations
of the laws of war

00:14:22.520 --> 00:14:23.950
and apparent war crimes.

00:14:23.950 --> 00:14:25.170
ON-SCREEN TEXT:
Human Rights Watch

00:14:25.170 --> 00:14:26.920
will be reporting
in August 2021

00:14:26.920 --> 00:14:28.580
on Palestinian
armed group attacks

00:14:28.580 --> 00:14:30.320
that caused
civilian casualties.

00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:31.700
NARRATOR:
In the northeastern corner

00:14:31.700 --> 00:14:34.180
of the Gaza Strip,
outside Beit Hanoun town,

00:14:34.180 --> 00:14:36.280
shortly after 6 p.m.
on May 10,

00:14:36.900 --> 00:14:39.500
a guided missile struck
near four houses

00:14:39.500 --> 00:14:41.870
belonging to the extended
al-Masri family.

00:14:44.490 --> 00:14:47.060
Members of the family
were packing processed barley

00:14:47.060 --> 00:14:49.700
for animal feed
into sacks at the time.

00:14:49.700 --> 00:14:52.420
YOUSSEF ATALLAH AL-MASRI:
[translated]

00:14:52.420 --> 00:14:56.700
My brother Ibrahim and I were
around 150 to 200 meters away.

00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:01.330
When they struck our children,
we were facing the events.

00:15:01.330 --> 00:15:04.110
We saw it with our own eyes
when they were hit.

00:15:07.710 --> 00:15:11.090
I ran to them right away.
I found our children scattered.

00:15:11.910 --> 00:15:13.610
They were scattered
on the floor,

00:15:14.270 --> 00:15:17.220
ripped to pieces,
blood and brain fragments.

00:15:25.160 --> 00:15:26.700
NARRATOR: Israeli authorities
have said

00:15:26.700 --> 00:15:29.740
that the attack involved
a misfired Palestinian rocket

00:15:29.740 --> 00:15:31.080
coming from the west,

00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:33.860
but have produced no evidence
to back up this claim.

00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:37.990
Witnesses saw a munition
approaching them from the east,

00:15:37.990 --> 00:15:41.240
from Israel.
Based on munition remnants

00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:44.510
found at the scene of the attack
and witnesses’ descriptions,

00:15:44.510 --> 00:15:47.370
we determined that the six
children and two adults

00:15:47.370 --> 00:15:50.660
were most likely killed
by a type of guided missile

00:15:50.660 --> 00:15:54.230
used to attack military vehicles
or personnel in the open.

00:15:55.930 --> 00:15:57.610
Six days after the attack,

00:15:57.610 --> 00:15:59.720
the Israeli authorities
also included

00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:02.880
the photo of one man killed
in the Beit Hanoun attack

00:16:02.880 --> 00:16:05.940
on a list of militant
group activists

00:16:05.940 --> 00:16:09.370
they said had been killed
in unspecified locations.

00:16:10.270 --> 00:16:12.660
Human Rights Watch’s interviews
with witnesses

00:16:12.660 --> 00:16:15.270
who knew him indicate
the man was a civilian.

00:16:17.870 --> 00:16:21.160
Our research uncovered
no evidence of a military target

00:16:21.160 --> 00:16:22.960
at or near the site.

00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.920
We therefore found the attack
to be unlawful.

00:16:25.920 --> 00:16:28.660
MOHAMMAD ATTALAH AL-MASRI:
[translated]

00:16:28.660 --> 00:16:30.470
It was a scene
I could never expect.

00:16:31.260 --> 00:16:33.110
Everyone cries and screams
every day.

00:16:35.260 --> 00:16:39.530
Do you know what my wife wants?
She wants me to sell the house.

00:16:40.270 --> 00:16:43.320
She cannot accept how
her children were all killed.

00:16:46.520 --> 00:16:50.520
NARRATOR: Al-Shati refugee camp,
located northwest of Gaza City,

00:16:50.520 --> 00:16:53.610
is one of the most densely
populated places in the world.

00:16:55.610 --> 00:17:00.630
At about 1:40 a.m. on May 15,
an Israeli airstrike destroyed

00:17:00.630 --> 00:17:02.850
a three-story building
in the camp,

00:17:02.850 --> 00:17:05.790
killing two women
and eight of their children.

00:17:05.790 --> 00:17:08.780
ALAA ABU HATTAB: [translated]
I lived with my wife

00:17:08.780 --> 00:17:10.480
and five children in the house.

00:17:15.420 --> 00:17:18.130
Our home was filled with love,
peace and happiness.

00:17:22.030 --> 00:17:24.490
We had been living here
for 30 years.

00:17:24.490 --> 00:17:26.810
There was no prior notice,
no phone call,

00:17:26.810 --> 00:17:28.510
no order to vacate.

00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:31.499
That night I went
to buy bread for dinner.

00:17:33.850 --> 00:17:36.660
All of a sudden there were
sounds of explosions in the air.

00:17:36.660 --> 00:17:38.709
I found that my own home
had been struck.

00:17:41.080 --> 00:17:46.510
NARRATOR: The Israeli military
said it struck the building

00:17:46.510 --> 00:17:48.660
because senior Hamas officials
were there.

00:17:49.210 --> 00:17:52.040
It also separately said
that they had targeted a bunker

00:17:52.040 --> 00:17:53.740
under or near the building.

00:17:54.660 --> 00:17:56.380
None of the witnesses
Human Rights Watch

00:17:56.380 --> 00:17:58.610
interviewed were aware
of any militants

00:17:58.610 --> 00:18:01.490
or other military targets
in or near the building.

00:18:02.260 --> 00:18:05.890
The Israeli authorities
have presented no such evidence.

00:18:05.890 --> 00:18:14.750
ALAA ABU HATTAB: [translated]
I had a reality.

00:18:14.750 --> 00:18:16.950
I had a dream here.
I had a family here.

00:18:17.630 --> 00:18:19.680
Now I have no family
and no home.

00:18:20.370 --> 00:18:22.660
My only daughter and I
are on the street.

00:18:23.580 --> 00:18:25.500
They destroyed
everything in my life.

00:18:25.500 --> 00:18:27.290
They destroyed my life entirely.

00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:44.510
NARRATOR:
At about 1 a.m. on May 16,

00:18:44.510 --> 00:18:47.570
the Israeli military launched
a four-minute attack

00:18:47.570 --> 00:18:50.490
in the heart of Gaza City
along five streets

00:18:50.490 --> 00:18:54.040
including al-Wahda Street,
causing three multistory

00:18:54.040 --> 00:18:56.410
residential buildings
to collapse.

00:18:56.410 --> 00:18:59.550
OMAR ABU EL-OUF: [translated]
Me, my father and mother,

00:19:00.090 --> 00:19:01.630
and my brother and sister,

00:19:01.630 --> 00:19:04.340
we started hearing the sound
of loud explosions.

00:19:04.340 --> 00:19:07.950
After the second missile landed,
the house started to sway right

00:19:07.950 --> 00:19:12.520
and left as if it were about
to fall down and collapse.

00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:16.470
I pulled my sister by the arm
towards the hallway

00:19:16.470 --> 00:19:18.269
and held her
in order to shield her.

00:19:20.320 --> 00:19:23.369
And suddenly we saw the third
missile coming from the window,

00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:26.900
and the hallway’s
entire wall collapsed,

00:19:28.550 --> 00:19:30.599
and the whole floor
suddenly disappeared,

00:19:32.520 --> 00:19:34.410
and everything fell on us.

00:19:34.410 --> 00:19:36.910
And afterwards, the fourth
missile came down on us

00:19:37.470 --> 00:19:39.170
and destroyed everything.

00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:42.580
NARRATOR: Human Rights
Watch determined

00:19:42.580 --> 00:19:44.870
that the three buildings
collapsed after missiles

00:19:44.870 --> 00:19:47.990
struck the road or sidewalk
next to the buildings.

00:19:49.060 --> 00:19:50.400
The Israeli military said

00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:53.070
that they targeted tunnels
used by armed groups.

00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:55.710
Later they said the attack

00:19:55.710 --> 00:19:58.240
had targeted
an underground command center,

00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:01.260
but without providing
any details or evidence.

00:20:01.260 --> 00:20:03.550
OMAR ABU EL-OUF: [translated]
Why did they kill my family?

00:20:04.170 --> 00:20:06.120
Why did they kill
my mother and father?

00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:08.439
Why did they turn me
into an orphan?

00:20:11.770 --> 00:20:14.120
Who will in the end
give me justice?

00:20:19.060 --> 00:20:24.680
NARRATOR:
The attacks killed 44 civilians,

00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:28.840
including 14 women,
12 men and 18 children.

00:20:29.520 --> 00:20:31.780
It also injured
about 50 others.

00:20:37.290 --> 00:20:39.440
The Israeli military
used powerful weapons

00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:42.060
in a heavily populated
residential area,

00:20:42.060 --> 00:20:44.890
putting the lives of scores
of civilians at risk.

00:20:46.530 --> 00:20:50.130
Since then they have produced
no evidence of a military target

00:20:50.130 --> 00:20:52.110
in the vicinity
to justify the attack.

00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:54.750
If there was a military target,

00:20:54.750 --> 00:20:57.360
they have also not shown
that it was important enough

00:20:57.360 --> 00:20:59.510
to justify the risk
to civilians.

00:21:00.030 --> 00:21:02.540
As a result,
these attacks were unlawful.

00:21:08.490 --> 00:21:13.630
The U.N. says that Israeli
airstrikes in May

00:21:13.630 --> 00:21:18.270
killed at least 129 civilians,
including 66 children.

00:21:19.850 --> 00:21:23.230
The Israeli military said that
Palestinian armed groups in Gaza

00:21:23.230 --> 00:21:27.680
fired more than 4,360 rockets
and mortars towards Israel

00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:29.430
between May 10 and 21,

00:21:29.940 --> 00:21:33.280
resulting in 12 civilian deaths,
including two children.

00:21:35.430 --> 00:21:37.790
Several Palestinians
also died in Gaza

00:21:37.790 --> 00:21:39.880
when rockets fired
by armed groups

00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:41.720
fell short and landed in Gaza.

00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:46.720
Rockets that Palestinian
armed groups fire at Israel

00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:48.600
are inherently indiscriminate

00:21:48.600 --> 00:21:51.410
when directed toward areas
with civilians.

00:21:52.260 --> 00:21:55.910
Their use in such circumstances
violates the laws of war

00:21:55.910 --> 00:21:57.610
and amounts to war crimes.

00:22:01.840 --> 00:22:04.690
For years, Israeli
and Palestinian authorities

00:22:04.690 --> 00:22:08.090
have systematically failed
to credibly investigate

00:22:08.090 --> 00:22:09.790
alleged war crimes.

00:22:12.380 --> 00:22:14.670
The International
Criminal Court prosecutor

00:22:14.670 --> 00:22:17.440
should investigate
Israeli attacks in Gaza

00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:19.870
that evidently killed
civilians unlawfully,

00:22:20.610 --> 00:22:23.960
rocket attacks by Palestinian
armed groups against Israel

00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:27.930
that violate the laws of war,
and other grave abuses,

00:22:27.930 --> 00:22:30.350
including the crimes
against humanity

00:22:30.350 --> 00:22:32.470
of apartheid and persecution.

00:22:33.580 --> 00:22:37.160
AMY GOODMAN: That new video
produced by Human Rights Watch.

00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:41.200
The video was released along
with a new report titled "Gaza:

00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:43.750
Apparent War Crimes
During May Fighting."

00:22:43.750 --> 00:22:46.120
We’re joined now by Omar Shakir,

00:22:46.120 --> 00:22:48.740
Israel and Palestine director
at Human Rights Watch.

00:22:48.740 --> 00:22:50.840
He’s joining us
from Amman, Jordan.

00:22:50.840 --> 00:22:55.300
What were you most shocked by
in these interviews,

00:22:55.300 --> 00:22:58.410
in this investigation
into what happened in Israel’s

00:22:58.410 --> 00:23:00.110
last attack on Gaza?

00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:03.160
OMAR SHAKIR: Amy, some of the
testimonies that we collected

00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:05.840
are among the most harrowing
I have ever come across

00:23:05.840 --> 00:23:09.490
in my four-and-a-half years
working on Israel-Palestine.

00:23:09.490 --> 00:23:12.450
You had strikes that
wiped out entire families.

00:23:13.030 --> 00:23:16.440
You had cases where families
were reduced from having seven,

00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:17.650
eight kids to having

00:23:17.650 --> 00:23:19.540
one surviving member
of their family.

00:23:19.540 --> 00:23:24.580
You had people’s entire lives —
their homes, their businesses,

00:23:24.580 --> 00:23:27.310
their wives, their children,
their husbands —

00:23:27.310 --> 00:23:28.860
gone in a flash.

00:23:28.860 --> 00:23:31.390
And those testimonies
are so important

00:23:31.390 --> 00:23:32.680
for us to discuss today,

00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:36.010
because the international
community focuses on Gaza

00:23:36.010 --> 00:23:38.950
maybe when there
are armed hostilities,

00:23:38.950 --> 00:23:41.880
but two months later
these families continue to deal

00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:44.270
with the aftermath
of the devastation

00:23:44.270 --> 00:23:45.920
wrought upon their lives.

00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:47.860
And it’s critically
important to them

00:23:47.860 --> 00:23:50.680
and to all victims of grave
human rights abuse

00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:54.150
that there is accountability
for these serious abuses

00:23:54.150 --> 00:23:57.230
and that steps are taken
by the international community

00:23:57.230 --> 00:24:00.740
to prevent yet another cycle
of bloodshed and repression.

00:24:00.740 --> 00:24:03.210
This wasn’t the first,
and it won’t be the last,

00:24:03.210 --> 00:24:06.060
unless we take grave,
definitive action.

00:24:06.760 --> 00:24:08.120
AMY GOODMAN:
What has been the response

00:24:08.120 --> 00:24:10.390
of the Israeli government
to your report, Omar,

00:24:10.390 --> 00:24:12.440
to Human Rights
Watch’s report?

00:24:12.440 --> 00:24:13.780
OMAR SHAKIR: Human Rights Watch

00:24:13.780 --> 00:24:15.480
wrote to the Israeli
government in June.

00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:18.280
We specified the strikes
that we were looking into.

00:24:18.280 --> 00:24:21.030
We sent them a number
of detailed questions.

00:24:21.030 --> 00:24:23.720
They replied to our letter
saying that they were not

00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:26.860
obligated under Israeli law
to answer our questions

00:24:26.860 --> 00:24:29.740
and providing a list
of general assertions,

00:24:29.740 --> 00:24:32.660
stating, for example,
that they took measures

00:24:32.660 --> 00:24:35.250
to minimize the impact
from their strikes,

00:24:35.250 --> 00:24:38.600
that fault belongs to Hamas
because, according to them,

00:24:38.600 --> 00:24:41.780
they fire from populated areas,
and saying that, of course,

00:24:41.780 --> 00:24:43.790
they would investigate
these strikes.

00:24:43.790 --> 00:24:45.640
But these are
the same allegations,

00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:48.670
these are the same claims
they trot out each time.

00:24:48.670 --> 00:24:54.630
They did so in 2008, in 2012,
in 2014, in 2018, in 2019.

00:24:54.630 --> 00:24:56.330
And they’re doing
so again today.

00:24:56.330 --> 00:24:57.840
The reality is that there is

00:24:57.840 --> 00:25:00.570
a whitewash mechanism
within Israel

00:25:00.570 --> 00:25:03.600
that ensures that these abuses
are not investigated,

00:25:03.600 --> 00:25:06.960
that impunity is the norm.
And that’s why it’s so important

00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:10.680
that the International Criminal
Court include these attacks,

00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:12.820
as well as their larger context,

00:25:12.820 --> 00:25:15.730
including apartheid
and persecution,

00:25:15.730 --> 00:25:18.590
in the formal probe that
they are currently working on.

00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:23.440
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask you
about the change in perception

00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:25.730
in the United States
about what’s happening

00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:29.680
with the Israeli government
and the occupation.

00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:36.090
I remember that
front-page photo display.

00:25:36.090 --> 00:25:38.870
It was Friday, May 28th.

00:25:38.870 --> 00:25:42.450
And the headline was,
"They were just children."

00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:49.120
And it shows scores of more
than 65 children’s faces in Gaza

00:25:49.120 --> 00:25:50.900
who died in the attack.

00:25:53.430 --> 00:25:55.110
OMAR SHAKIR:
That sort of reporting

00:25:55.110 --> 00:25:56.390
should be the norm, Amy,

00:25:56.390 --> 00:25:58.830
and it’s unfortunate,
for too many years,

00:25:58.830 --> 00:26:01.890
that has not been the case.
You know, the reality here

00:26:01.890 --> 00:26:04.260
is for too often
Palestinian deaths,

00:26:04.260 --> 00:26:06.080
when they’re covered —
I mean, just this week,

00:26:06.080 --> 00:26:09.950
as you mentioned in the lede
to the news program today,

00:26:09.950 --> 00:26:12.770
you had a 20-year-old
Palestinian who was killed,

00:26:12.770 --> 00:26:17.000
killed while in a protest over
the killing of a 12-year-old.

00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:19.330
And an organization,
whose work is —

00:26:19.330 --> 00:26:21.550
the Defense for Children
International Palestine —

00:26:21.550 --> 00:26:23.070
to document children’s deaths,

00:26:23.070 --> 00:26:26.060
had their offices raided
this week by the Israeli army.

00:26:26.060 --> 00:26:28.430
You know, too often
these sorts of events

00:26:28.430 --> 00:26:30.720
don’t make the international
news cycle.

00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:33.160
These sorts of events
highlight the crimes

00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:35.860
against humanity
of apartheid and persecution.

00:26:35.860 --> 00:26:37.800
There is certainly, Amy,
growing awareness,

00:26:37.800 --> 00:26:40.160
I think, that apartheid
and persecution

00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:43.070
are the reality
for millions of Palestinians.

00:26:43.070 --> 00:26:46.960
I think we saw a shift
in the latest hostilities,

00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:49.440
including members
of the U.S. Congress,

00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:52.530
who didn’t just focus on
the latest Palestinian rocket

00:26:52.530 --> 00:26:55.370
or Israeli airstrike, but looked
at what they described

00:26:55.370 --> 00:26:59.240
as root causes of the conflict,
looking at the larger context,

00:26:59.240 --> 00:27:01.970
the discriminatory treatment
of Palestinians.

00:27:01.970 --> 00:27:03.170
That’s so important,

00:27:03.170 --> 00:27:06.400
because the first step
to solving any problem

00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:11.170
is to diagnose it correctly.
So recognition needs to happen,

00:27:11.170 --> 00:27:13.820
and then the action
needs to be taken

00:27:13.820 --> 00:27:15.830
that’s commensurate
with that problem,

00:27:15.830 --> 00:27:19.210
in this case ending complicity
with grave crimes,

00:27:19.210 --> 00:27:21.410
as well as ensuring
accountability for them.

00:27:22.810 --> 00:27:24.330
AMY GOODMAN: You talked about
the killing

00:27:24.330 --> 00:27:27.650
of the 12-year-old
Palestinian boy.

00:27:28.330 --> 00:27:30.730
He was named
Mohammed al-Alami,

00:27:30.730 --> 00:27:32.580
sat in the backseat
of his father’s car

00:27:32.580 --> 00:27:35.130
at an Israeli checkpoint
north of Hebron,

00:27:35.130 --> 00:27:38.670
the 11th Palestinian child
killed by Israeli

00:27:38.670 --> 00:27:41.190
forces in the occupied
West Bank this year.

00:27:41.190 --> 00:27:44.710
That’s according to Defense
for Children International,

00:27:44.710 --> 00:27:47.680
which publicized Mohammed’s
killing on Wednesday.

00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:51.100
Yesterday, Israeli forces
raided the group’s main office,

00:27:51.100 --> 00:27:53.890
seizing files about
Palestinian children

00:27:53.890 --> 00:27:57.740
in Israeli detention.
Can you comment on this?

00:27:58.360 --> 00:27:59.570
OMAR SHAKIR: Absolutely.

00:27:59.570 --> 00:28:02.870
Look, Amy, there has been
a systematic assault

00:28:02.870 --> 00:28:04.620
on human rights advocacy,

00:28:04.620 --> 00:28:08.240
on the individuals and groups
that are reporting, documenting,

00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:11.580
speaking out against the reality
of Israeli repression.

00:28:11.580 --> 00:28:13.210
You know,
for international groups,

00:28:13.210 --> 00:28:17.120
that can take the form of
denials of entry or deportation.

00:28:17.120 --> 00:28:20.050
For Israeli groups,
it can be smear campaigns.

00:28:20.050 --> 00:28:22.770
But Palestinian groups
face it the worst.

00:28:22.770 --> 00:28:25.410
This is not the only example
of the army

00:28:25.410 --> 00:28:27.050
raiding a human
rights organization.

00:28:27.050 --> 00:28:29.720
It happened a couple years ago
with the group Addameer.

00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:32.390
And it’s not limited to that.
As we speak,

00:28:32.390 --> 00:28:34.710
there are Palestinian
human rights defenders

00:28:34.710 --> 00:28:36.690
that are sitting
in an Israeli prison

00:28:37.300 --> 00:28:39.640
over their activism
and advocacy.

00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:42.010
There are Palestinian
human rights defenders

00:28:42.010 --> 00:28:45.470
who face a travel ban,
a punitive ban

00:28:45.470 --> 00:28:49.550
that seems linked to the work
they do promoting awareness

00:28:49.550 --> 00:28:52.180
and calling for an end
to Israeli repression.

00:28:52.180 --> 00:28:54.670
So it’s important for the
international community

00:28:54.670 --> 00:28:59.620
to speak out to defend the space
for human rights advocacy

00:29:00.490 --> 00:29:01.860
and human rights groups
to operate,

00:29:01.860 --> 00:29:04.890
because if the international
community cannot

00:29:04.890 --> 00:29:07.600
protect the space
for human rights groups

00:29:07.600 --> 00:29:09.590
to report on
human rights abuse,

00:29:09.590 --> 00:29:11.770
how are they ever going
to stop human rights abuse

00:29:11.770 --> 00:29:14.500
in the first place?
These are not one-offs.

00:29:14.500 --> 00:29:17.380
This is part of a systematic
practice, and it must end.

00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:20.670
AMY GOODMAN: Omar Shakir is
Israel and Palestine director

00:29:20.670 --> 00:29:23.330
at Human Rights Watch.
We’ll link to your report,

00:29:23.330 --> 00:29:26.490
"Gaza: Apparent War Crimes
During May Fighting."

00:29:27.030 --> 00:29:29.030
And, Omar, we’re going
to ask you to stay with us

00:29:29.030 --> 00:29:30.420
for our next segment

00:29:30.420 --> 00:29:33.580
as we look at the fallout
from Ben & Jerry’s decision

00:29:33.580 --> 00:29:37.090
to halt ice cream sales
in Israeli settlements

00:29:37.090 --> 00:29:38.810
in the occupied West Bank.

00:29:38.810 --> 00:29:41.590
The Israeli government
claims the move is antisemitic,

00:29:41.590 --> 00:29:44.530
but many Jewish groups,
including J Street,

00:29:44.530 --> 00:29:47.410
support Ben & Jerry’s decision.
Stay with us.

00:31:12.310 --> 00:31:13.620
AMY GOODMAN:
This is Democracy Now!,

00:31:13.620 --> 00:31:16.350
democracynow.org,
The War and Peace Report.

00:31:16.350 --> 00:31:17.660
I’m Amy Goodman.

00:31:17.660 --> 00:31:19.740
Israel has launched
what has been described

00:31:19.740 --> 00:31:23.410
as a maximum pressure campaign
against Ben & Jerry’s

00:31:23.410 --> 00:31:25.470
and its parent company,
Unilever,

00:31:25.470 --> 00:31:28.620
after the iconic ice cream
brand announced

00:31:28.620 --> 00:31:31.600
it’s halting sales
in Israeli settlements

00:31:31.600 --> 00:31:33.470
in the occupied West Bank.

00:31:33.470 --> 00:31:36.440
Israel has asked
35 U.S. governors

00:31:36.440 --> 00:31:39.570
to enforce state laws
which make it a crime

00:31:39.570 --> 00:31:41.660
to support
the Boycott, Divestment

00:31:41.660 --> 00:31:44.130
and Sanctions
movement, or BDS.

00:31:44.130 --> 00:31:47.970
Last week, the head of the
New York State Common Retirement

00:31:47.970 --> 00:31:51.100
Fund wrote to Unilever
saying it was examining

00:31:51.100 --> 00:31:53.940
whether Ben & Jerry’s had
violated state policy

00:31:53.940 --> 00:31:55.650
on Israeli boycotts.

00:31:55.650 --> 00:31:57.620
Meanwhile, Brad Lander,

00:31:57.620 --> 00:32:00.780
the Democratic nominee
for New York City comptroller,

00:32:00.780 --> 00:32:03.650
criticized the state’s position,
saying, quote,

00:32:03.650 --> 00:32:07.220
"Actions that erase
the distinction between Israel

00:32:07.220 --> 00:32:09.550
and its settlements
in occupied territory

00:32:09.550 --> 00:32:12.140
are effectively
endorsing annexation

00:32:12.140 --> 00:32:15.970
and today’s unjust one-state
status quo," he said.

00:32:16.660 --> 00:32:18.780
The founders of Ben & Jerry’s,

00:32:18.780 --> 00:32:22.250
who no longer have operational
control of the company,

00:32:22.250 --> 00:32:24.840
have defended
the company’s decision.

00:32:25.480 --> 00:32:29.480
Writing in The New York Times
in an op-ed, Ben Cohen and Jerry

00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:33.200
Greenfield describe themselves
as "proud Jews"

00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:35.360
and "supporters
of the State of Israel."

00:32:35.360 --> 00:32:38.320
They write, quote,
"We believe this act can

00:32:38.320 --> 00:32:42.230
and should be seen as advancing
the concepts of justice

00:32:42.230 --> 00:32:46.610
and human rights, core tenets
of Judaism," they said.

00:32:47.270 --> 00:32:49.150
Meanwhile, a number
of Jewish groups,

00:32:49.150 --> 00:32:51.450
including J Street
and the New Israel

00:32:51.450 --> 00:32:53.770
Fund and Americans
for Peace Now,

00:32:53.770 --> 00:32:57.320
all of whom oppose
BDS, have defended

00:32:57.320 --> 00:33:00.720
Ben & Jerry’s decision
and rejected accusations

00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:03.000
that the company’s decision
was antisemitic.

00:33:03.930 --> 00:33:06.110
We’re joined now
by Logan Bayroff,

00:33:06.110 --> 00:33:09.380
the vice president of
communications of J Street.

00:33:09.380 --> 00:33:11.650
And still with us,
Omar Shakir,

00:33:11.650 --> 00:33:14.440
Israel and Palestine director
at Human Rights Watch.

00:33:14.950 --> 00:33:16.840
We welcome you both
to Democracy Now!

00:33:17.620 --> 00:33:20.270
Let’s begin with Logan.

00:33:20.890 --> 00:33:24.710
Talk about this
maximum pressure campaign

00:33:24.710 --> 00:33:26.630
the Israeli government
is bringing

00:33:26.630 --> 00:33:29.570
and the response to it
around the United States.

00:33:30.840 --> 00:33:32.210
LOGAN BAYROFF:
Well, yes, Amy.

00:33:32.210 --> 00:33:34.120
Thanks for having me on,
first of all.

00:33:34.120 --> 00:33:37.470
And, I mean, what we’re seeing
is an aggressive,

00:33:37.470 --> 00:33:40.700
over-the-top, full-court press
from senior officials

00:33:40.700 --> 00:33:44.580
in the Israeli government,
also from some senior leaders

00:33:44.580 --> 00:33:46.580
in right-leaning
American Jewish

00:33:46.580 --> 00:33:48.920
and pro-Israel groups
in the United States,

00:33:48.920 --> 00:33:52.810
to target Ben & Jerry’s
simply for the fact

00:33:52.810 --> 00:33:54.580
that they made
a principled decision

00:33:54.580 --> 00:33:57.360
to respect the distinction
between the state of Israel

00:33:57.360 --> 00:34:00.130
and the territory that it
occupies beyond the Green Line,

00:34:00.130 --> 00:34:01.580
and made a principled decision
that

00:34:01.580 --> 00:34:04.110
while they’re going to continue
to do business in Israel,

00:34:04.110 --> 00:34:07.550
they no longer want to sell
their ice cream in settlements

00:34:07.550 --> 00:34:10.650
that are illegal under
international law in territory

00:34:10.650 --> 00:34:11.860
that is occupied

00:34:11.860 --> 00:34:14.620
and where Palestinians
face systemic injustice.

00:34:14.620 --> 00:34:17.410
And simply for making
that principled decision,

00:34:17.410 --> 00:34:22.200
they’re now facing calls
to have constitutionally

00:34:22.200 --> 00:34:25.140
dubious anti-boycott laws
deployed against them

00:34:25.140 --> 00:34:27.790
to potentially prevent them
from doing business

00:34:27.790 --> 00:34:29.070
in states
across the country,

00:34:29.070 --> 00:34:31.770
or to impose some sort
of legal penalty or sanction

00:34:31.770 --> 00:34:34.230
on Ben & Jerry’s
or their parent company.

00:34:34.230 --> 00:34:36.380
They’re facing accusations,
as you said,

00:34:36.380 --> 00:34:37.950
that they are
somehow antisemitic,

00:34:37.950 --> 00:34:40.920
that they’re somehow
dehumanizing the Jewish people

00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:42.450
even,
or in league with terror —

00:34:42.450 --> 00:34:46.780
I mean, completely over-the-top,
frankly insane accusations

00:34:46.780 --> 00:34:50.960
that I think are just designed
to intimidate Ben & Jerry’s,

00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:53.030
and not just a major
ice cream company,

00:34:53.030 --> 00:34:55.410
but all those,
including many American Jews,

00:34:56.120 --> 00:34:57.850
who want to protest

00:34:57.850 --> 00:35:00.450
and speak out against
the injustice of occupation,

00:35:00.450 --> 00:35:02.330
including groups
like J Street,

00:35:02.330 --> 00:35:04.550
that also consider ourselves
to be pro-Israel

00:35:04.550 --> 00:35:06.460
but also support and care
about Palestinian rights

00:35:06.460 --> 00:35:07.660
and understand

00:35:07.660 --> 00:35:09.790
that the occupation
needs to be called out

00:35:09.790 --> 00:35:12.460
and needs to end if we’re going
to end the conflict

00:35:12.460 --> 00:35:14.760
and create a better future
for both peoples.

00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:16.600
AMY GOODMAN: This is U.S.
State Department

00:35:16.600 --> 00:35:18.030
spokesperson Ned Price

00:35:18.030 --> 00:35:21.970
responding to questions on Ben &
Jerry’s earlier in the week.

00:35:22.970 --> 00:35:25.140
NED PRICE: Well, I don’t have
a reaction to offer

00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:28.910
regarding the actions
of a private company.

00:35:28.910 --> 00:35:30.790
But more broadly,
what I will say

00:35:30.790 --> 00:35:34.760
is that we firmly reject
the BDS movement,

00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:37.280
which unfairly
singles out Israel.

00:35:38.060 --> 00:35:39.810
While the Biden-Harris
administration will fully

00:35:39.810 --> 00:35:42.660
and always respect
the First Amendment rights

00:35:42.660 --> 00:35:44.990
of our citizens,
of the American people,

00:35:44.990 --> 00:35:46.940
the United States will be
a strong partner

00:35:46.940 --> 00:35:49.000
in fighting efforts
around the world

00:35:49.830 --> 00:35:52.720
that potentially seek
to delegitimize Israel,

00:35:52.720 --> 00:35:56.310
and will work tirelessly
to support Israel’s

00:35:56.310 --> 00:35:57.640
further integration

00:35:57.640 --> 00:35:58.930
into the
international community.

00:35:58.930 --> 00:36:02.110
AMY GOODMAN: Logan Bayroff,
if you can respond to Ned Price

00:36:02.110 --> 00:36:05.270
and also talk about the letter
that your group,

00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:09.190
that J Street,
New Israel Fund

00:36:09.190 --> 00:36:13.360
and others have written to —
what is it? — 35 U.S. governors?

00:36:14.060 --> 00:36:15.330
LOGAN BAYROFF:
Well, what I would say

00:36:15.330 --> 00:36:16.570
is that it’s — you know,

00:36:16.570 --> 00:36:18.760
and I’ll take those —
they’re sort of related.

00:36:18.760 --> 00:36:20.700
I think it’s notable
that the Israeli government

00:36:20.700 --> 00:36:22.400
has been writing to governors

00:36:22.950 --> 00:36:25.070
rather than to
the federal government.

00:36:25.070 --> 00:36:29.000
There has been an effort
going on for years, as you know,

00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:31.820
to pass and push these
really insidious,

00:36:31.820 --> 00:36:34.570
constitutionally dubious
anti-BDS laws

00:36:34.570 --> 00:36:35.790
at the state level.

00:36:35.790 --> 00:36:38.220
There’s also been efforts
at the federal level

00:36:38.220 --> 00:36:39.560
that groups like J Street

00:36:39.560 --> 00:36:41.730
and others in the
American Jewish community,

00:36:41.730 --> 00:36:43.400
and some in
the pro-Israel community,

00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:45.620
have advocated to block.

00:36:45.620 --> 00:36:48.270
You know, we’ve said this
legislation does not represent

00:36:48.270 --> 00:36:49.930
the majority of the
American Jewish community

00:36:49.930 --> 00:36:52.790
who thinks First Amendment
rights are very important,

00:36:52.790 --> 00:36:54.580
who thinks that
any form of boycott

00:36:55.100 --> 00:36:56.890
is protected political
free speech

00:36:56.890 --> 00:37:00.170
that needs to be sacrosanct
in this country,

00:37:00.170 --> 00:37:02.690
and who thinks that these
attacks are dangerous

00:37:02.690 --> 00:37:05.100
and don’t do anything
to help American Jews

00:37:05.100 --> 00:37:07.050
or even in the long run
to help Israel.

00:37:07.780 --> 00:37:10.810
We’ve succeeded in blocking
those at the federal level,

00:37:10.810 --> 00:37:12.540
but they have passed
at the state level.

00:37:12.540 --> 00:37:15.310
And that’s why you have
this effort to the governors

00:37:15.310 --> 00:37:19.620
to try to sort of go around
the power of the president

00:37:19.620 --> 00:37:22.350
or the power of Congress
to conduct foreign policy,

00:37:22.350 --> 00:37:24.890
and to try to have
state governments

00:37:24.890 --> 00:37:29.060
intervening to punish companies
or individuals

00:37:29.060 --> 00:37:30.950
because they want to speak out
against the occupation

00:37:30.950 --> 00:37:34.190
or support Palestinian rights.
And that’s what’s going on here.

00:37:34.190 --> 00:37:37.250
And, I mean, J Street has joined
friend of the court briefs

00:37:37.250 --> 00:37:41.220
in a number of cases where these
laws have been struck down,

00:37:41.810 --> 00:37:44.120
in places like Arkansas,
in places like Georgia.

00:37:44.120 --> 00:37:45.530
Just this year,
courts have found

00:37:45.530 --> 00:37:47.360
some of these laws
unconstitutional,

00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:49.530
and yet many
are still being passed.

00:37:49.530 --> 00:37:52.790
Many are still on the books.
And you have this effort —

00:37:52.790 --> 00:37:54.530
these legal efforts
moving forward

00:37:54.530 --> 00:37:57.100
to target Ben & Jerry’s,
I think, as a test case,

00:37:57.100 --> 00:38:00.570
again to sort of intimidate
and suppress

00:38:00.570 --> 00:38:02.290
other companies
or individuals

00:38:02.290 --> 00:38:04.100
who might want
to come out and say,

00:38:05.110 --> 00:38:07.320
"We want to find a way
to push back against

00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:09.930
what’s happening
in the occupied territory."

00:38:09.930 --> 00:38:12.160
AMY GOODMAN:
I want to bring Omar Shakir

00:38:12.790 --> 00:38:14.260
back into the conversation

00:38:14.260 --> 00:38:16.430
and get your response,
Omar Shakir,

00:38:17.170 --> 00:38:20.080
with Human Rights Watch,
based in Amman, Jordan,

00:38:20.080 --> 00:38:22.430
the Israel
and Palestine director there.

00:38:23.390 --> 00:38:26.180
Axios had a very
interesting piece

00:38:26.180 --> 00:38:30.300
on this maximum
pressure campaign.

00:38:30.300 --> 00:38:33.120
They wrote, "On July 22,
the Israeli Foreign Ministry

00:38:33.120 --> 00:38:35.380
sent a classified cable
to all Israeli

00:38:35.380 --> 00:38:37.520
diplomatic missions
in North America and Europe

00:38:37.520 --> 00:38:39.530
ordering them to start
a pressure campaign

00:38:39.530 --> 00:38:41.640
against Ben &
Jerry’s and Unilever

00:38:41.640 --> 00:38:44.700
in order to convince them
to negotiate.

00:38:44.700 --> 00:38:46.260
Israeli diplomats
were instructed

00:38:46.260 --> 00:38:48.070
to encourage
Jewish organizations,

00:38:48.070 --> 00:38:51.270
pro-Israel advocacy groups
and evangelical communities

00:38:51.270 --> 00:38:53.360
to organize demonstrations
in front of Ben &

00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:56.220
Jerry’s and Unilever offices
and put pressure on investors

00:38:56.220 --> 00:38:58.510
and distributors
for both companies.

00:38:58.510 --> 00:39:00.990
The Foreign Ministry
also asked the diplomats

00:39:00.990 --> 00:39:04.180
to push for public statements
condemning the companies

00:39:04.180 --> 00:39:06.660
and to 'encourage
public protests in the media

00:39:06.660 --> 00:39:09.480
and directly with key executives
in both companies.'

00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:11.670
The diplomats were also
instructed to echo

00:39:11.670 --> 00:39:16.270
those protests on social media
for maximum [visibility]."

00:39:16.270 --> 00:39:17.920
And this final example:

00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:19.680
"The Israeli Embassy
in Washington

00:39:19.680 --> 00:39:22.030
and the Israeli Consulates
around the U.S.

00:39:22.030 --> 00:39:25.300
were asked to push
for the activation of anti-BDS

00:39:25.300 --> 00:39:26.900
(Boycott, Divestment
and Sanctions)

00:39:26.900 --> 00:39:30.730
legislation in several states
and to engage with governors,

00:39:30.730 --> 00:39:32.900
mayors, members of Congress
and state officials

00:39:32.900 --> 00:39:34.990
like attorneys general."

00:39:35.700 --> 00:39:40.080
Again, I was reading from Axios.
Your response, Omar Shakir?

00:39:41.220 --> 00:39:42.900
OMAR SHAKIR: Amy, it’s clear
that they’re trying to follow

00:39:42.900 --> 00:39:45.330
the Airbnb model.
What I’m referencing here is,

00:39:45.330 --> 00:39:49.190
when Airbnb made a decision
a couple of years ago

00:39:49.190 --> 00:39:51.840
to stop listing
in the occupied West Bank

00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:54.790
because doing
so made them complicit

00:39:54.790 --> 00:39:56.990
in serious
human rights abuses,

00:39:56.990 --> 00:39:59.150
they undertook
a similar strategy,

00:39:59.150 --> 00:40:02.610
and they eventually
bullied Airbnb into caving.

00:40:02.610 --> 00:40:04.670
The difference here is that
Ben & Jerry’s

00:40:04.670 --> 00:40:09.320
is a deeply principled company
with clearly articulated values

00:40:09.320 --> 00:40:10.790
and are acting
pursuant to this.

00:40:10.790 --> 00:40:12.440
This is a company that,
at its core,

00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:14.540
takes the principles
of human rights

00:40:14.540 --> 00:40:16.240
and social justice seriously.

00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:18.720
The reality here,
as Logan mentioned,

00:40:18.720 --> 00:40:21.000
is that settlements
are illegal.

00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:24.070
They are war crimes under
the Fourth Geneva Convention.

00:40:24.070 --> 00:40:26.880
And when businesses
operate in the West Bank,

00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:29.640
they are directly benefiting
from and contributing

00:40:29.640 --> 00:40:32.830
to the entrenched
discriminatory system there.

00:40:32.830 --> 00:40:34.800
What do I mean?
I mean businesses that operate

00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:37.420
in the West Bank
receive permits,

00:40:37.420 --> 00:40:38.890
access to infrastructure,

00:40:38.890 --> 00:40:42.170
that are systematically
denied to Palestinians.

00:40:42.170 --> 00:40:44.560
They are operating
on or with land

00:40:44.560 --> 00:40:47.660
that was confiscated
from Palestinians.

00:40:47.660 --> 00:40:50.480
They are providing jobs
and revenue

00:40:50.480 --> 00:40:52.620
that goes into
further entrenching

00:40:52.620 --> 00:40:54.300
these war crime settlements.

00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:56.300
And they are also operating
in a system

00:40:56.300 --> 00:40:58.210
in which you have
dual legal regimes,

00:40:58.210 --> 00:41:01.300
in which in the very same store
that sells Ben & Jerry’s,

00:41:01.300 --> 00:41:04.190
if a Palestinian and an Israeli
happen to work there,

00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:06.460
they’re governed
under different systems,

00:41:06.460 --> 00:41:08.260
with different rights
and protections.

00:41:08.260 --> 00:41:10.410
So the reality here
is that businesses,

00:41:10.410 --> 00:41:12.340
under the U.N.
Guiding Principles,

00:41:12.340 --> 00:41:16.360
have a duty not to contribute
to human rights abuses.

00:41:17.080 --> 00:41:18.580
That’s a decision
Ben & Jerry’s made.

00:41:18.580 --> 00:41:20.050
It’s a principled distinction

00:41:20.050 --> 00:41:23.010
following their international
legal obligations.

00:41:23.010 --> 00:41:26.420
These anti-boycott laws
aren’t just posing issues

00:41:26.420 --> 00:41:27.680
under the First Amendment;

00:41:27.680 --> 00:41:29.730
they’re actually
punishing companies

00:41:29.730 --> 00:41:32.400
that do the right thing
by ending their complicity

00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:34.070
in human rights abuse.
Human Rights

00:41:34.070 --> 00:41:37.410
Watch does business and human
rights work around the world,

00:41:37.410 --> 00:41:40.540
and we are calling for companies
that operate in settlements

00:41:40.540 --> 00:41:43.030
to do the same thing
that companies who are involved

00:41:43.030 --> 00:41:45.170
in human rights abuses
everywhere else do,

00:41:45.170 --> 00:41:48.060
which is end that complicity
and rights abuse.

00:41:49.310 --> 00:41:53.620
AMY GOODMAN: So, how exactly
will this go down in Israel

00:41:53.620 --> 00:41:55.090
and the Occupied Territories?

00:41:55.090 --> 00:41:57.310
It won’t take place
for another year

00:41:57.310 --> 00:41:59.360
because of the contract
that Ben & Jerry’s

00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:02.320
has with the local distributor.
Is that right, Omar?

00:42:03.550 --> 00:42:05.150
OMAR SHAKIR: That’s correct.

00:42:05.150 --> 00:42:07.050
In essence,
this decision says

00:42:07.050 --> 00:42:10.530
that they are not going
to operate in settlements.

00:42:10.530 --> 00:42:13.730
And because their current
distributor in Israel

00:42:13.730 --> 00:42:16.290
was not willing to agree
to that condition,

00:42:16.290 --> 00:42:18.710
they will not be
renewing their agreement

00:42:18.710 --> 00:42:22.210
with that distributor
beyond the end of 2022.

00:42:22.210 --> 00:42:26.600
And to the extent that they
continue to operate in Israel,

00:42:26.600 --> 00:42:28.750
they will ensure that they do
so without operating

00:42:28.750 --> 00:42:30.320
in the occupied
Palestinian territory,

00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:33.770
which of course includes
occupied East Jerusalem,

00:42:33.770 --> 00:42:36.170
which the Israeli
government has annexed

00:42:36.170 --> 00:42:39.880
but remains occupied territory
under international law,

00:42:39.880 --> 00:42:41.940
and where the Israeli
government every day,

00:42:41.940 --> 00:42:43.850
routinely, systematically,

00:42:43.850 --> 00:42:45.720
is abusing the rights
of Palestinians

00:42:45.720 --> 00:42:47.480
and systematically
oppressing them.

00:42:47.480 --> 00:42:48.750
AMY GOODMAN: Omar Shakir,

00:42:48.750 --> 00:42:50.260
we want to thank you
for being with us,

00:42:50.260 --> 00:42:53.810
Israel and Palestine director
of Human Rights Watch,

00:42:53.810 --> 00:42:56.810
speaking to us from Amman,
Jordan, and Logan Bayroff,

00:42:56.810 --> 00:43:00.180
vice president of
communications for J Street.

00:43:00.180 --> 00:43:02.130
Next up, we go to Guatemala,

00:43:02.130 --> 00:43:04.360
where thousands took
to the streets Thursday

00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:06.900
for a national strike,
demanding the resignation

00:43:06.900 --> 00:43:09.290
of right-wing President
Alejandro Giammattei.

00:43:09.290 --> 00:43:10.990
Stay with

00:44:16.280 --> 00:44:17.980
us.

00:44:45.070 --> 00:44:46.360
AMY GOODMAN:
This is Democracy Now!,

00:44:46.360 --> 00:44:49.030
democracynow.org,
The War and Peace Report.

00:44:49.030 --> 00:44:50.300
I’m Amy Goodman.

00:44:50.300 --> 00:44:52.330
We end today’s show
in Guatemala,

00:44:52.330 --> 00:44:55.310
where thousands took to the
streets across the country

00:44:55.310 --> 00:44:57.890
Thursday for a massive
national strike

00:44:57.890 --> 00:44:59.680
demanding the resignation
of the right-wing

00:44:59.680 --> 00:45:01.740
President Alejandro Giammattei,

00:45:01.740 --> 00:45:03.610
as well as other
government officials.

00:45:03.610 --> 00:45:06.870
Major highways were blocked
for hours as protesters

00:45:06.870 --> 00:45:09.820
marched through Guatemala
City and in rural communities

00:45:09.820 --> 00:45:13.090
denouncing corruption,
a worsening economic crisis

00:45:13.090 --> 00:45:14.660
and the
government’s catastrophic

00:45:14.660 --> 00:45:16.420
mishandling of the pandemic.

00:45:16.420 --> 00:45:20.440
COVID-19 cases continue
to skyrocket,

00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:23.370
with hospitals collapsing
or on the verge.

00:45:23.370 --> 00:45:26.990
Meanwhile, less than 2%
of the population of Guatemala

00:45:26.990 --> 00:45:28.540
has been vaccinated.

00:45:28.540 --> 00:45:31.650
The national strike was called
by Indigenous leaders,

00:45:31.650 --> 00:45:33.350
who vowed they won’t stop

00:45:33.350 --> 00:45:36.010
until there’s radical change
in Guatemala.

00:45:36.010 --> 00:45:39.060
This is Indigenous rights
defender María Caal Xol,

00:45:39.060 --> 00:45:42.800
speaking Thursday
from the region Alta Verapaz.

00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:46.320
MARÍA CAAL XOL: [translated]
We have been resisting,

00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:49.770
and we will continue to resist
against these injustices

00:45:49.770 --> 00:45:52.370
that have Indigenous
communities on our knees.

00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:58.290
We will continue
to protect our dignity,

00:45:58.290 --> 00:46:00.570
what our ancestors
inherited to us,

00:46:00.570 --> 00:46:03.720
what our grandmothers and
grandfathers inherited to us,

00:46:03.720 --> 00:46:06.310
those who have been
disappeared, persecuted

00:46:06.310 --> 00:46:08.900
and assassinated
for over 500 years.

00:46:08.900 --> 00:46:10.420
AMY GOODMAN: And this is
a student movement leader

00:46:10.420 --> 00:46:13.320
speaking from a roadblock
in Guatemala City.

00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:17.950
LAURA AGUIAR: [translated]
We must learn that we,

00:46:17.950 --> 00:46:20.640
the students,
have to be part of the change.

00:46:20.640 --> 00:46:23.330
The urban region has to learn
from collectivity,

00:46:23.330 --> 00:46:24.530
because individuality

00:46:24.530 --> 00:46:27.070
is only going to make
our situation worse.

00:46:27.070 --> 00:46:28.390
AMY GOODMAN:
The national strike

00:46:28.390 --> 00:46:30.810
comes after recent mobilizations
in response

00:46:30.810 --> 00:46:33.760
to the abrupt ousting
last week of Guatemala’s

00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:37.880
top anti-corruption prosecutor,
Juan Francisco Sandoval,

00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:40.580
who was then forced
to flee the country.

00:46:40.580 --> 00:46:42.930
He went over the border
into El Salvador.

00:46:42.930 --> 00:46:45.210
The move also prompted
the U.S. government

00:46:45.210 --> 00:46:47.670
to suspend
some of its cooperation

00:46:47.670 --> 00:46:50.160
with Guatemala’s
attorney general.

00:46:50.160 --> 00:46:52.010
Well, for more, we go
to Guatemala City,

00:46:52.010 --> 00:46:55.020
where we’re joined
by Lucrecia Hernández Mack,

00:46:55.020 --> 00:46:56.770
Guatemalan physician
and a member

00:46:56.770 --> 00:46:58.520
of the Guatemalan Congress

00:46:58.520 --> 00:47:01.410
with the political party
Movimiento Semilla.

00:47:01.410 --> 00:47:03.420
That’s "the seed movement."

00:47:03.420 --> 00:47:06.310
In 2016, she became
the first woman

00:47:06.310 --> 00:47:09.030
to lead the Ministry
of Health in Guatemala.

00:47:09.030 --> 00:47:10.320
She’s the daughter

00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:13.510
of the late Guatemalan
anthropologist Myrna Mack,

00:47:13.510 --> 00:47:17.020
who was assassinated
by U.S.-backed security

00:47:17.020 --> 00:47:18.760
forces in the early '90s.

00:47:19.370 --> 00:47:24.020
And in Totonicapán, Guatemala,
we're joined by Andrea Ixchíu,

00:47:24.020 --> 00:47:26.990
Maya K’iche’ leader, journalist
and human rights defender.

00:47:26.990 --> 00:47:28.690
We welcome you both
to Democracy Now!

00:47:28.690 --> 00:47:31.360
We’re going to start
with Congressmember Mack.

00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:33.450
Can you talk
about the significance

00:47:33.450 --> 00:47:36.330
of this mass protest,
and what has prompted it?

00:47:37.750 --> 00:47:38.960
LUCRECIA HERNÁNDEZ MACK:
Well, we could say

00:47:38.960 --> 00:47:43.260
that these manifestations
and demonstrations

00:47:43.260 --> 00:47:47.510
are sort of like the third
chapter of our history

00:47:47.510 --> 00:47:51.090
in the fight against corruption
that started in 2015.

00:47:51.620 --> 00:47:55.070
In 2015, we saw,
with the CICIG,

00:47:55.070 --> 00:48:00.520
the International Commission
Against Impunity,

00:48:00.520 --> 00:48:04.470
we saw cases that revealed

00:48:04.470 --> 00:48:06.900
the participation
of the vice president

00:48:06.900 --> 00:48:11.670
and the president
involved in corruption.

00:48:11.670 --> 00:48:14.310
And we saw
many demonstrations.

00:48:14.310 --> 00:48:17.630
We also had a strike,
a national strike,

00:48:17.630 --> 00:48:21.430
that finally made
the vice president

00:48:21.430 --> 00:48:23.250
and president to resign.

00:48:23.250 --> 00:48:25.350
Then we had a second chapter

00:48:25.350 --> 00:48:29.270
where basically
the corrupt strike back.

00:48:30.150 --> 00:48:34.090
And we see how
the public institutions

00:48:34.090 --> 00:48:36.720
start being taken over,

00:48:36.720 --> 00:48:39.840
like the Supreme
Court of Justice,

00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:45.900
the Constitutional Court,
the Electoral Court, etc., etc.

00:48:45.900 --> 00:48:49.080
And finally, the FECI,
Juan Francisco Sandoval

00:48:49.650 --> 00:48:53.560
is ousted by
the attorney general.

00:48:53.560 --> 00:48:55.730
And this is basically
the third chapter,

00:48:55.730 --> 00:48:59.900
where people here in Guatemala
are just outraged,

00:48:59.900 --> 00:49:02.490
and we go back
into the streets

00:49:02.490 --> 00:49:05.290
and demand
for the president, Giammattei,

00:49:05.290 --> 00:49:08.660
and the attorney
general to resign also.

00:49:09.250 --> 00:49:13.910
And what we see is that we are
just fed up with corruption.

00:49:16.250 --> 00:49:19.140
If we continue
to go this way,

00:49:19.140 --> 00:49:23.610
we basically have no public
institutions free of corruption.

00:49:23.610 --> 00:49:25.920
So, this is the moment

00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:30.560
where we have united political
parties with social movements,

00:49:30.560 --> 00:49:35.240
with ancestral authorities,
communities, rural communities,

00:49:35.240 --> 00:49:37.620
citizens from
the urban areas,

00:49:37.620 --> 00:49:42.040
students, motor taxis,
think tanks,

00:49:42.040 --> 00:49:46.430
NGOs, activists, everybody
is coming together to say,

00:49:46.430 --> 00:49:48.790
"No more.
We don’t want this anymore."

00:49:48.790 --> 00:49:52.960
And interestingly enough,
this is a movement

00:49:52.960 --> 00:49:57.360
that has been led
by ancestral authorities.

00:49:57.360 --> 00:50:01.400
So we are basically saying,
"We don’t want this anymore."

00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:04.610
AMY GOODMAN:
I want to bring Andrea Ixchíu

00:50:04.610 --> 00:50:08.290
into the conversation,
Maya K’iche’ leader, journalist,

00:50:08.290 --> 00:50:11.560
human rights defender.
You’re in western Guatemala.

00:50:11.560 --> 00:50:14.400
This was an Indigenous-led
mass protest.

00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:18.060
Can you talk about
what’s happening in your area,

00:50:18.060 --> 00:50:20.590
the significance of
the Indigenous leadership,

00:50:20.590 --> 00:50:25.030
and particularly describe
the Guatemalan blockades,

00:50:25.030 --> 00:50:27.550
Indigenous people
taking to the streets

00:50:27.550 --> 00:50:29.920
and blocking the highways?

00:50:31.840 --> 00:50:33.490
ANDREA IXCHÍU: Hello.
Thank you for this space.

00:50:33.490 --> 00:50:35.440
I think it’s really important
to say that —

00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:36.740
well, we always say it —

00:50:36.740 --> 00:50:39.810
that Indigenous peoples
have been mobilizing

00:50:39.810 --> 00:50:44.210
for more than 529 years
against colonialism, corruption

00:50:44.210 --> 00:50:46.740
and the pillage
of our ancestral lands.

00:50:46.740 --> 00:50:49.480
The Indigenous government
of Totonicapán,

00:50:49.480 --> 00:50:51.450
where I came from,

00:50:51.450 --> 00:50:54.970
decided to call
for these big mobilizations

00:50:54.970 --> 00:50:57.390
and to call
to this national strike,

00:50:58.060 --> 00:51:00.270
reunited with
other Indigenous governments

00:51:00.270 --> 00:51:01.930
from all
over the country,

00:51:01.930 --> 00:51:05.520
because we are tired how,
in the midst of the pandemic,

00:51:05.520 --> 00:51:07.710
the Guatemala government
are stealing the money

00:51:07.710 --> 00:51:10.020
from the vaccines
and militarizes the country.

00:51:10.560 --> 00:51:12.360
The anti-corruption prosecutor

00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:14.780
is dismissed
without justification.

00:51:14.780 --> 00:51:19.620
And the prosecutor was
investigating a recent meeting

00:51:19.620 --> 00:51:21.620
between the president,
Alejandro Giammattei,

00:51:21.620 --> 00:51:24.570
who received in recent weeks
investors related

00:51:24.570 --> 00:51:28.140
to nickel mining companies that
operate illegally in Guatemala

00:51:28.140 --> 00:51:29.750
and that are violating
the rights

00:51:29.750 --> 00:51:31.370
of the Maya
K’iche’ communities

00:51:31.370 --> 00:51:34.110
that lives in the region
of El Estor, Izabal,

00:51:34.110 --> 00:51:38.290
an area of exploitation,
of monocultures, of mining,

00:51:38.290 --> 00:51:41.550
and that have lived very hard
the effects of the pandemic

00:51:41.550 --> 00:51:43.050
and the climate crisis.

00:51:43.050 --> 00:51:44.840
So, a lot of Indigenous
communities

00:51:44.840 --> 00:51:47.280
have been militarized
during the pandemic.

00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:52.180
We haven’t received attention
and social programs

00:51:52.180 --> 00:51:53.450
during pandemic.

00:51:53.450 --> 00:51:55.960
And especially
in the K’iche’ area,

00:51:55.960 --> 00:51:58.670
the voices of the women,
as María Caal,

00:51:58.670 --> 00:52:00.200
that you heard
at the beginning,

00:52:00.200 --> 00:52:03.290
is telling how a lot
of companies is operating

00:52:03.290 --> 00:52:05.270
in their lands
without consultation

00:52:05.270 --> 00:52:07.190
and consent
from the communities.

00:52:07.190 --> 00:52:11.840
So we see with preoccupation
how the president

00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:15.100
is reuniting
with these land investors,

00:52:15.100 --> 00:52:19.080
with these mining contractors
a few months

00:52:19.080 --> 00:52:23.650
before a consultation is going
to be done in El Estor,

00:52:23.650 --> 00:52:26.790
because the communities
needs to give their opinion

00:52:26.790 --> 00:52:29.280
about the mining operation
in the area.

00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:31.620
So, during the pandemic,
as I said,

00:52:31.620 --> 00:52:33.960
the country was militarized.

00:52:33.960 --> 00:52:36.110
There was multiple
violent evictions,

00:52:36.110 --> 00:52:37.840
where a lot
of Indigenous communities

00:52:37.840 --> 00:52:40.990
were expelled from their lands,
from their communities.

00:52:40.990 --> 00:52:43.610
So it’s suspicious,
these kind of meetings

00:52:43.610 --> 00:52:46.480
that the special prosecutor
anti-corruption

00:52:46.480 --> 00:52:49.350
was investigating
against the president

00:52:49.350 --> 00:52:52.020
when he was removed
from his position.

00:52:52.020 --> 00:52:55.720
So, as Indigenous peoples=,
we have always been organizing

00:52:55.720 --> 00:52:57.380
against the exploitation
of the land,

00:52:57.380 --> 00:53:00.110
the defense of the water,
the defense of the territories.

00:53:00.110 --> 00:53:02.900
And because we are tired
that this state

00:53:02.900 --> 00:53:07.530
that is very well administrated
by economical elites,

00:53:07.530 --> 00:53:09.870
military and drug traffickers,

00:53:09.870 --> 00:53:13.820
are just denying
our access for a dignity,

00:53:13.820 --> 00:53:15.310
a life in dignity.

00:53:15.310 --> 00:53:18.800
So, when the people says
that Indigenous communities

00:53:18.800 --> 00:53:21.320
are blocking the roads,
we said,

00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:25.450
"No, we are mobilizing
for a life in dignity,

00:53:25.450 --> 00:53:28.030
where we can have deep
political changes

00:53:28.030 --> 00:53:30.530
in the way that
our country is organized,"

00:53:30.530 --> 00:53:34.140
because the ones that have been
blocking the road

00:53:34.140 --> 00:53:38.590
for develop and life
in dignity are the crime elites

00:53:38.590 --> 00:53:41.980
that refuses to make changes
and that are

00:53:42.530 --> 00:53:44.230
[inaudible]
Guatemalan state.

00:53:44.900 --> 00:53:47.710
AMY GOODMAN: Lucrecia Hernández
Mack in Guatemala City,

00:53:47.710 --> 00:53:51.380
you are in Congress.
For people outside Guatemala

00:53:51.380 --> 00:53:53.460
who may not be familiar
with the term

00:53:53.460 --> 00:53:57.870
the Pacto de Corruptos,
the Corrupt Pact,

00:53:58.540 --> 00:54:01.490
talking about a group
of business people,

00:54:01.490 --> 00:54:03.070
political leaders,

00:54:03.070 --> 00:54:05.980
well, if you could describe
what they are

00:54:05.980 --> 00:54:10.590
and their ascendancy now,
also particularly in Congress,

00:54:10.590 --> 00:54:13.290
and what it means for human
rights all over Guatemala?

00:54:14.500 --> 00:54:15.730
LUCRECIA HERNÁNDEZ MACK:
Yes.

00:54:15.730 --> 00:54:19.200
The Pacto de Corruptos
was very visible

00:54:19.200 --> 00:54:21.580
when in Congress there was

00:54:21.580 --> 00:54:24.550
an attempt to protect
the president,

00:54:24.550 --> 00:54:27.440
Jimmy Morales,
back in 2017.

00:54:27.440 --> 00:54:33.560
And what we see is that this is
the alignment of economic elite,

00:54:34.190 --> 00:54:39.600
politicians, even drug
traffickers here in Guatemala,

00:54:39.600 --> 00:54:42.700
as well, that have
links to politicians.

00:54:43.880 --> 00:54:51.660
We also see, you know,
public authorities involved.

00:54:51.660 --> 00:54:54.170
And what has happened
is that they have taken

00:54:54.170 --> 00:54:55.900
over public institutions

00:54:55.900 --> 00:55:00.030
in order to protect
themselves from justice,

00:55:00.030 --> 00:55:01.990
guarantee their impunity.

00:55:01.990 --> 00:55:04.770
And so they have taken,
basically,

00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:10.500
like I said,
the Electoral Court,

00:55:10.500 --> 00:55:14.410
the Supreme Court of Justice,
the Constitutional Court.

00:55:15.740 --> 00:55:18.710
They are going after
the human rights ombudsman.

00:55:19.900 --> 00:55:24.050
And we see that they have also
used the public institutions

00:55:24.050 --> 00:55:30.810
to pursue independent judges,
political opposition,

00:55:30.810 --> 00:55:33.410
journalists,
civil society leaders,

00:55:33.410 --> 00:55:38.830
activists with various actions,
like smear campaigns,

00:55:38.830 --> 00:55:41.800
troll factories,
threats, harassments,

00:55:43.010 --> 00:55:46.190
criminal complaints
or accusations.

00:55:46.190 --> 00:55:50.250
And they are basically
undermining the state,

00:55:50.250 --> 00:55:52.640
the government.
They are using the state

00:55:52.640 --> 00:55:55.580
and the public institutions
for their own benefit.

00:55:55.580 --> 00:55:59.260
And they are basically
undermining the democracy

00:55:59.260 --> 00:56:01.760
and the justice system.

00:56:02.270 --> 00:56:06.290
So, this is what has
the people fed up,

00:56:06.290 --> 00:56:11.980
because we can no longer
tolerate any more advance

00:56:11.980 --> 00:56:16.040
of this Pacto de Corruptos,
the Pact of the Corrupt.

00:56:17.290 --> 00:56:21.280
AMY GOODMAN: Let me ask Andrea
about the demands,

00:56:21.280 --> 00:56:24.570
the Indigenous demands for
the Guatemalan government

00:56:24.570 --> 00:56:27.100
to establish
a plurinational state.

00:56:27.100 --> 00:56:28.800
What does that mean?

00:56:29.600 --> 00:56:31.300
ANDREA IXCHÍU: Well, the Mayan,

00:56:32.440 --> 00:56:34.600
Xinca and Garífuna Indigenous
authorities

00:56:34.600 --> 00:56:37.460
propose a route
to a new political pact,

00:56:37.460 --> 00:56:40.430
because we know that
it’s not going to be easy.

00:56:40.430 --> 00:56:44.380
We wait to build a plurinational
popular assembly,

00:56:44.380 --> 00:56:47.770
a constitutional assembly,
because it’s really important

00:56:47.770 --> 00:56:51.210
and it’s really urgent
to transform from the roots

00:56:51.210 --> 00:56:55.710
the political pact that has
denied the very existence

00:56:55.710 --> 00:56:57.120
of Indigenous authorities,

00:56:57.120 --> 00:56:58.830
our ways of living
and organizing,

00:56:58.830 --> 00:57:01.090
the ways that we
administrate our lands.

00:57:01.090 --> 00:57:03.630
So, we are saying
that that needs to change,

00:57:03.630 --> 00:57:05.750
that we need a country

00:57:05.750 --> 00:57:09.550
where the people can live
in dignity and in respect.

00:57:09.550 --> 00:57:13.520
And that means sitting down and
speaking with the politicians,

00:57:13.520 --> 00:57:15.860
sitting down and speaking
with the people organized

00:57:15.860 --> 00:57:17.230
all over Guatemala.

00:57:17.230 --> 00:57:19.480
So we know that
it’s going to be a path.

00:57:19.480 --> 00:57:22.500
It’s going to be
a long way to go to.

00:57:22.500 --> 00:57:25.670
But also it’s an urgent thing
that we need to keep doing,

00:57:25.670 --> 00:57:28.780
because the crisis
that we’re living is —

00:57:28.780 --> 00:57:30.510
the conditions
that we live in are ugly.

00:57:30.510 --> 00:57:32.430
AMY GOODMAN: And, Lucrecia Mack,
in this last minute,

00:57:32.430 --> 00:57:36.410
you were the first woman
minister of health of Guatemala,

00:57:36.410 --> 00:57:38.160
before you became
a congressmember.

00:57:39.090 --> 00:57:41.600
Describe the COVID situation
right now.

00:57:43.210 --> 00:57:44.420
LUCRECIA HERNÁNDEZ MACK:
What we’re seeing right now

00:57:44.420 --> 00:57:47.700
is the overlapping
of the political crisis

00:57:47.700 --> 00:57:50.170
with the economic crisis
and the health crisis.

00:57:50.170 --> 00:57:52.480
And the health crisis
is not only a problem

00:57:52.480 --> 00:57:54.560
with the vaccines,
with the vaccination.

00:57:54.560 --> 00:57:59.110
Like you said, we have less than
2% of our population vaccinated.

00:57:59.110 --> 00:58:01.590
But right now we are
in the third wave.

00:58:01.590 --> 00:58:04.850
So we are seeing
record figures of cases

00:58:04.850 --> 00:58:07.490
and deaths from COVID-19.

00:58:07.490 --> 00:58:12.230
And right now hospitals, public
and private, are just full.

00:58:12.230 --> 00:58:13.710
They are saturated.

00:58:13.710 --> 00:58:17.550
The health workers
are just burned out.

00:58:17.550 --> 00:58:20.570
And that’s why we also saw
health workers

00:58:20.570 --> 00:58:22.970
yesterday participating

00:58:22.970 --> 00:58:26.490
and joining and supporting
the national strike.

00:58:28.390 --> 00:58:30.650
And the government
is very reluctant

00:58:30.650 --> 00:58:32.940
and resisting to take measures

00:58:32.940 --> 00:58:34.810
in order to control
the pandemic.

00:58:35.380 --> 00:58:36.610
AMY GOODMAN:
Well, I want to thank

00:58:36.610 --> 00:58:37.840
you both for being with us.

00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:39.900
We’ll continue
to follow the situation.

00:58:39.900 --> 00:58:41.780
Lucrecia Hernández Mack,

00:58:41.780 --> 00:58:43.670
member of the Guatemalan
Congress,

00:58:43.670 --> 00:58:47.270
first woman health minister
of Guatemala,

00:58:47.270 --> 00:58:48.900
before she was a congressmember.

00:58:48.900 --> 00:58:51.530
And Andrea Ixchíu,
Maya K’iche’ leader, journalist

00:58:51.530 --> 00:58:52.810
and human rights defender,

00:58:52.810 --> 00:58:54.510
joining us
from western Guatemala.

00:58:55.250 --> 00:58:57.810
I’m Amy Goodman.
Thanks so much for joining us.

00:58:57.810 --> 00:58:59.510
Stay safe.