WEBVTT 00:00:14.310 --> 00:00:17.000 From New York, this is Democracy Now! 00:00:17.790 --> 00:00:19.130 Thank you all very much. 00:00:19.130 --> 00:00:22.720 And thank you to 40 million Americans, 00:00:22.720 --> 00:00:24.510 40 million Californians. 00:00:24.510 --> 00:00:27.380 And thank you for rejecting this recall. 00:00:28.500 --> 00:00:31.930 California Governor Gavin Newsom has soundly defeated 00:00:31.930 --> 00:00:34.400 a right-wing attempt to remove him from office. 00:00:34.400 --> 00:00:37.810 We’ll go to Sacramento for the latest on the failed recall. 00:00:37.810 --> 00:00:41.150 Then to Afghanistan, where new evidence has emerged 00:00:41.150 --> 00:00:43.910 showing a recent U.S. drone strike 00:00:43.910 --> 00:00:46.270 that killed 10 innocent civilians, 00:00:46.270 --> 00:00:48.010 including seven children. 00:00:48.540 --> 00:00:51.660 The Pentagon claimed it was a righteous attack 00:00:51.660 --> 00:00:54.760 to prevent an ISIS-K bombing, but The New York Times 00:00:54.760 --> 00:00:58.840 reports the U.S. targeted the car of an aid worker 00:00:58.840 --> 00:01:00.750 carrying jugs of water. 00:01:04.190 --> 00:01:06.620 I lost my brother, my brother’s three sons, 00:01:06.620 --> 00:01:09.150 my own daughter and four of my nephews. ... 00:01:09.150 --> 00:01:11.570 We cannot even find the bodies at the scene of the strike. 00:01:11.570 --> 00:01:12.800 We want justice. 00:01:12.800 --> 00:01:14.900 The American military must hear our voices 00:01:14.900 --> 00:01:16.580 and never do this again. 00:01:16.580 --> 00:01:19.470 Then we speak to a clinical social worker 00:01:19.470 --> 00:01:23.780 who spent years helping undocumented 9/11 responders 00:01:23.780 --> 00:01:25.420 and cleanup workers. 00:01:25.420 --> 00:01:28.240 And we look at why Apple has released 00:01:28.240 --> 00:01:32.440 an emergency software update for 1.6 billion 00:01:32.440 --> 00:01:34.830 Apple products after researchers 00:01:34.830 --> 00:01:38.330 found the Israeli-based mercenary spyware company 00:01:38.330 --> 00:01:42.120 NSO Group was using a flaw in Apple’s code 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:44.780 to secretly gain access to devices. 00:01:45.310 --> 00:01:47.090 All that and more, coming up. 00:01:51.660 --> 00:01:54.710 Welcome to Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, 00:01:54.710 --> 00:01:57.070 The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. 00:01:57.070 --> 00:01:58.680 California Governor Gavin Newsom 00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:00.640 has handily defeated a recall effort 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:04.350 with just over 64% of voters casting "no" ballots 00:02:04.350 --> 00:02:06.090 with two-thirds of votes counted. 00:02:06.710 --> 00:02:08.570 The failed recall attempt, 00:02:08.570 --> 00:02:11.290 organized by right-wing opponents of Newsom, 00:02:11.290 --> 00:02:14.050 cost taxpayers close to $300 million. 00:02:14.920 --> 00:02:17.630 Newsom’s main challenger was anti-immigrant, 00:02:17.630 --> 00:02:21.110 anti-science conservative talk show host Larry Elder, 00:02:21.110 --> 00:02:24.010 who said he’d roll back COVID mandates. 00:02:24.010 --> 00:02:26.600 Elder also spread false election fraud 00:02:26.600 --> 00:02:28.640 claims ahead of Tuesday’s results. 00:02:33.030 --> 00:02:35.280 President Biden will call on world leaders 00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:37.710 to commit to a goal of vaccinating 70% 00:02:38.450 --> 00:02:41.660 of the global population within a year. 00:02:41.660 --> 00:02:43.230 The ambitious target, 00:02:43.230 --> 00:02:45.650 set to be formally announced during an upcoming summit, 00:02:45.650 --> 00:02:48.160 is very far from current vaccination rates 00:02:48.160 --> 00:02:51.460 in poorer countries with limited access to vaccines. 00:02:51.460 --> 00:02:54.670 The World Health Organization is warning that most of Africa 00:02:54.670 --> 00:02:57.980 has been left behind in pandemic recovery efforts, 00:02:57.980 --> 00:03:00.400 as wealthier countries and drug companies 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:03.140 are blocking the fair distribution of vaccines. 00:03:03.700 --> 00:03:04.920 Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus: 00:03:04.920 --> 00:03:08.600 "More than 5.7 billion doses have been administered globally, 00:03:09.320 --> 00:03:12.700 but only 2% of those have been administered in Africa. 00:03:13.740 --> 00:03:16.950 This leaves people at high risk of disease and death 00:03:16.950 --> 00:03:20.810 exposed to a deadly virus against which many other people 00:03:20.810 --> 00:03:23.020 around the world enjoy protection." 00:03:24.310 --> 00:03:28.290 A WHO official said this week a vaccine hub 00:03:28.290 --> 00:03:30.000 established in South Africa 00:03:32.070 --> 00:03:35.880 may take up to a year to replicate Moderna’s vaccine, 00:03:35.880 --> 00:03:37.890 as talks with the pharmaceutical company 00:03:37.890 --> 00:03:39.970 on sharing information have stalled. 00:03:39.970 --> 00:03:42.890 A recent Public Citizen report said the Biden administration 00:03:42.890 --> 00:03:46.100 has the authority to unilaterally share the recipe 00:03:46.100 --> 00:03:48.410 for Moderna’s vaccine with the world. 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:53.910 Meanwhile, Britain is the latest country 00:03:53.910 --> 00:03:56.530 to announce booster shots for people 50 and above 00:03:56.530 --> 00:03:58.750 and other more vulnerable groups. 00:03:58.750 --> 00:04:01.790 The U.N. has called for a halt on third doses 00:04:01.790 --> 00:04:03.110 amid the worsening vaccine 00:04:03.110 --> 00:04:05.940 apartheid between rich and poor countries. 00:04:05.940 --> 00:04:08.580 Here in New York, two judges have temporarily 00:04:08.580 --> 00:04:12.290 put on hold vaccine mandates for state health workers 00:04:12.290 --> 00:04:13.910 and New York City teachers. 00:04:13.910 --> 00:04:16.400 Some health workers argue receiving the vaccine 00:04:16.400 --> 00:04:18.320 violates their religious beliefs. 00:04:19.490 --> 00:04:22.180 Poverty rates in the U.S. fell in 2020 00:04:22.180 --> 00:04:24.430 thanks to government assistance during the pandemic, 00:04:24.430 --> 00:04:26.779 including stimulus checks and unemployment aid. 00:04:27.340 --> 00:04:28.740 The Census Bureau said 00:04:28.740 --> 00:04:31.650 Tuesday the U.S. supplemental poverty rate 00:04:31.650 --> 00:04:34.990 fell over 2.5 percentage points to 9.1% 00:04:35.810 --> 00:04:37.920 despite the highest unemployment numbers 00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:40.070 since the Great Depression. Bernie Sanders, 00:04:40.070 --> 00:04:42.520 chair of the Senate Budget Committee, tweeted, 00:04:42.520 --> 00:04:45.350 "When government responds to the needs of the working class, 00:04:45.350 --> 00:04:47.700 millions of families are lifted out of poverty." 00:04:47.700 --> 00:04:50.600 Sanders added, "We must not stop here. 00:04:50.600 --> 00:04:54.290 We must pass the $3.5T reconciliation bill 00:04:54.290 --> 00:04:55.990 and invest in working families." 00:04:58.350 --> 00:05:00.820 President Biden was in Colorado Tuesday 00:05:00.820 --> 00:05:03.040 to pitch his infrastructure plans 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:06.230 in the wildfire-ravaged, drought-stricken state. 00:05:06.230 --> 00:05:07.590 President Joe Biden: 00:05:07.590 --> 00:05:12.080 "Communities that nearly one in three Americans call home 00:05:12.080 --> 00:05:14.260 have been struck by weather disasters 00:05:14.260 --> 00:05:15.960 in just the past few months: 00:05:16.490 --> 00:05:19.150 hurricanes in the Gulf Coast are up to the — 00:05:19.150 --> 00:05:20.410 and up the Eastern Seaboard, 00:05:20.410 --> 00:05:22.890 wildfires threatening throughout the West 00:05:22.890 --> 00:05:25.480 and tearing it apart, droughts and heat waves 00:05:25.480 --> 00:05:28.920 across the country devastating farmers and ranchers 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:30.810 and draining the Colorado River. 00:05:30.810 --> 00:05:34.500 In addition to the lost lives, lives shattered, 00:05:34.500 --> 00:05:39.180 extreme weather cost America last year $99 billion." 00:05:40.340 --> 00:05:42.940 Biden’s remarks came as a "high risk flood alert" 00:05:42.940 --> 00:05:45.650 was issued in Louisiana as Tropical Depression Nicholas 00:05:45.650 --> 00:05:47.920 drenches the state with heavy rain and winds — 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:49.660 while many communities are still reeling 00:05:49.660 --> 00:05:51.559 from the destruction of Hurricane Ida. 00:05:52.130 --> 00:05:54.420 In Haiti, a political crisis is deepening 00:05:54.420 --> 00:05:56.520 after Prime Minister Ariel Henry 00:05:56.520 --> 00:06:00.080 fired the country’s top public prosecutor, 00:06:00.080 --> 00:06:01.820 hours after the prosecutor said 00:06:01.820 --> 00:06:04.570 he was seeking charges against Prime Minister Henry 00:06:04.570 --> 00:06:08.320 over the July assassination of President Jovenel Moïse. 00:06:08.320 --> 00:06:12.400 Prosecutor Bed-Ford Claude said Henry had communicated 00:06:12.400 --> 00:06:15.630 with a key suspect on the night Moïse was killed. 00:06:15.630 --> 00:06:18.780 Meanwhile, many Haitians are still struggling to recover 00:06:18.780 --> 00:06:22.410 from the devastation brought by the 7.2 magnitude earthquake 00:06:22.410 --> 00:06:24.110 that struck one month ago. 00:06:26.410 --> 00:06:29.120 Webson Similien: "As you can observe, 00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:31.130 we haven’t received help from anyone. 00:06:31.130 --> 00:06:33.950 My house is destroyed. We haven’t received help. 00:06:34.530 --> 00:06:37.530 People who live here are helping us to rebuild this church." 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:40.220 Tensions are ratcheting up on the Korean Peninsula 00:06:40.220 --> 00:06:41.440 as South Korea 00:06:41.440 --> 00:06:44.200 fired a submarine-launched ballistic missile earlier today, 00:06:44.200 --> 00:06:46.720 in response to a ballistic missile test by North Korea 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:49.960 just hours earlier — its first since March 00:06:49.960 --> 00:06:52.770 and a breach of U.N. sanctions. Two days earlier, 00:06:52.770 --> 00:06:55.460 Pyongyang tested a long-range cruise missile. 00:06:55.460 --> 00:06:56.860 President Biden previously said 00:06:56.860 --> 00:06:58.760 he was open to diplomacy with North Korea, 00:06:58.760 --> 00:07:01.450 but denuclearization talks between the two countries 00:07:01.450 --> 00:07:03.370 have not resumed since negotiations 00:07:03.370 --> 00:07:07.320 between Trump and Kim Jong-un broke down in 2019. 00:07:09.280 --> 00:07:12.760 The Justice Department charged three former U.S. intelligence 00:07:12.760 --> 00:07:14.250 and military officials 00:07:14.250 --> 00:07:17.100 after they admitted to helping the United Arab Emirates 00:07:17.100 --> 00:07:19.150 build a hacking program. 00:07:19.150 --> 00:07:20.950 The hackers, who provided the services 00:07:20.950 --> 00:07:22.460 without an export license, 00:07:22.460 --> 00:07:25.800 are also accused of stealing personal identifying information 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:27.280 and developing a hacking tool 00:07:27.280 --> 00:07:29.210 that is able to infect a mobile device 00:07:29.210 --> 00:07:31.700 without the user having to click on anything. 00:07:32.880 --> 00:07:35.490 The Justice Department has filed an emergency motion 00:07:35.490 --> 00:07:37.970 urging a federal judge to temporarily block 00:07:37.970 --> 00:07:40.870 Texas’s near-total ban on abortions. 00:07:40.870 --> 00:07:43.400 The DOJ last week sued Texas over the law, 00:07:43.400 --> 00:07:45.720 which went into effect September 1. 00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:48.280 The legislation bars abortions around six weeks 00:07:48.280 --> 00:07:49.560 into a pregnancy — 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:51.680 without an exception for rape or incest — 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:55.450 and allows anyone in Texas to sue patients, medical workers, 00:07:55.450 --> 00:07:57.330 or even a patient’s family or friends 00:07:57.330 --> 00:07:59.670 who "aid and abet" an abortion. 00:08:00.350 --> 00:08:02.000 Meanwhile, reproductive rights advocates 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:03.840 led a protest outside the Maryland 00:08:03.840 --> 00:08:06.860 home of Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh, 00:08:06.860 --> 00:08:08.560 one of five conservative justices 00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:10.550 who refused to halt the Texas law. 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:14.010 A group of Senate Democrats introduced new voting 00:08:14.010 --> 00:08:16.990 rights legislation Tuesday after reaching a compromise 00:08:16.990 --> 00:08:19.980 with conservative West Virginia Democrat Joe Manchin. 00:08:19.980 --> 00:08:21.920 The Freedom to Vote Act includes a ban 00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:23.260 on partisan gerrymandering; 00:08:23.260 --> 00:08:25.330 universal no-excuse mail-in voting; 00:08:25.330 --> 00:08:27.430 automatic and Election Day registration; 00:08:27.430 --> 00:08:28.700 two weeks of early voting; 00:08:28.700 --> 00:08:30.830 and makes Election Day a holiday. 00:08:30.830 --> 00:08:32.720 The bill, however, does away 00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:34.620 with some of the provisions of the sweeping 00:08:34.620 --> 00:08:37.130 For the People Act and includes the creation 00:08:37.130 --> 00:08:40.570 of a voter ID requirement, which voting advocates 00:08:40.570 --> 00:08:43.420 say disproportionately targets low-income 00:08:43.420 --> 00:08:45.370 and communities of color. 00:08:45.370 --> 00:08:48.090 But the ID requirement would be far less stringent 00:08:48.090 --> 00:08:50.550 than those many states are trying to impose. 00:08:51.590 --> 00:08:54.520 It’s unclear whether Democrats can convince 10 Republicans 00:08:54.520 --> 00:08:55.720 to vote for the bill, 00:08:55.720 --> 00:08:59.240 prompting renewed calls to abolish the filibuster. 00:08:59.240 --> 00:09:02.020 In New York, more than a dozen elected officials 00:09:02.020 --> 00:09:03.900 visited Rikers Island earlier this week 00:09:03.900 --> 00:09:06.830 following repeated reports of the worsening conditions 00:09:06.830 --> 00:09:10.050 inside the jail complex, including skyrocketing violence, 00:09:10.050 --> 00:09:12.690 staff shortages and chronic medical neglect. 00:09:12.690 --> 00:09:16.500 At least 10 people have died at Rikers so far this year. 00:09:16.500 --> 00:09:19.140 Following Monday’s visit, New York Assemblymember Emily 00:09:19.140 --> 00:09:20.350 Gallagher tweeted, 00:09:20.350 --> 00:09:22.890 "What I witnessed was a humanitarian crisis. 00:09:22.890 --> 00:09:25.240 A horror house of abuse and neglect." 00:09:25.940 --> 00:09:27.790 And this is New York Assemblymember Jessica 00:09:27.790 --> 00:09:31.160 González-Rojas speaking Monday after touring Rikers. 00:09:31.690 --> 00:09:33.280 Assemblymember Jessica González-Rojas: 00:09:33.280 --> 00:09:36.630 "People have been stuck inside for days, 00:09:36.630 --> 00:09:39.690 for weeks, for months without a court hearing, 00:09:40.410 --> 00:09:42.620 without being able to get transported to court, 00:09:42.620 --> 00:09:44.330 without medical care. ... 00:09:44.330 --> 00:09:46.790 I just witnessed an attempted suicide. 00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:51.070 'Miss, come here.' 00:09:51.070 --> 00:09:53.540 Jumped up there and tried to hang themselves. 00:09:53.540 --> 00:09:55.439 Me and Senator Ramos were right there. 00:09:57.520 --> 00:10:00.650 Nobody deserves this. These are human beings." 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:07.990 And those are some of the headlines this is Democracy 00:10:07.990 --> 00:10:11.230 Now, Democracynow.org, the War and Peace Report. 00:10:11.230 --> 00:10:12.930 I’m Amy Goodman. 00:10:23.780 --> 00:10:26.410 AMY GOODMAN: Californians overwhelmingly rejected 00:10:26.410 --> 00:10:28.110 a Republican-led recall effort 00:10:28.110 --> 00:10:30.940 against Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom Tuesday. 00:10:30.940 --> 00:10:32.590 The failed recall attempt 00:10:32.590 --> 00:10:37.090 cost close to $300 million in taxpayer dollars 00:10:37.090 --> 00:10:39.700 and was seen as a battle against the far right. 00:10:39.700 --> 00:10:41.650 Speaking from the California Democratic headquarters 00:10:41.650 --> 00:10:42.910 in Sacramento, 00:10:42.910 --> 00:10:44.850 Newsom thanked voters and criticized 00:10:44.850 --> 00:10:47.520 former President Trump’s claim the recall was rigged. 00:10:48.650 --> 00:10:49.850 GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM: I want to focus 00:10:49.850 --> 00:10:52.480 on what we said yes to as a state. 00:10:53.070 --> 00:10:56.980 We said yes to science. We said yes to vaccines. 00:10:56.980 --> 00:10:59.280 We said yes to ending this pandemic. 00:11:00.090 --> 00:11:02.730 We said yes to people’s right to vote 00:11:02.730 --> 00:11:06.740 without fear of fake fraud or voter suppression. 00:11:07.640 --> 00:11:10.540 We said yes to women’s fundamental, 00:11:10.540 --> 00:11:12.970 constitutional right to decide for herself 00:11:13.680 --> 00:11:16.630 what she does with her body, her fate and future. 00:11:17.580 --> 00:11:21.650 We said yes to diversity. We said yes to inclusion. 00:11:22.640 --> 00:11:24.340 We said yes to pluralism. ... 00:11:24.880 --> 00:11:27.530 You know, we may have defeated Trump, 00:11:27.530 --> 00:11:29.579 but Trumpism is not dead in this country: 00:11:31.380 --> 00:11:35.050 the big lie; the January 6 insurrection; 00:11:35.050 --> 00:11:36.630 all the voting suppression efforts 00:11:36.630 --> 00:11:38.780 that are happening all across this country; 00:11:39.850 --> 00:11:42.510 what’s happening, the assault on fundamental rights, 00:11:42.510 --> 00:11:45.210 constitutionally protected rights, of women and girls. 00:11:46.190 --> 00:11:49.140 It’s a remarkable moment in our nation’s history. 00:11:49.700 --> 00:11:52.550 AMY GOODMAN: The attempt to recall Governor Newsom was seen 00:11:52.550 --> 00:11:54.800 as a referendum on several key issues, 00:11:54.800 --> 00:11:56.420 and Democrats at the national level 00:11:56.420 --> 00:12:00.490 closely watched the race ahead of the 2022 midterms. 00:12:00.490 --> 00:12:05.850 Early exit polls show Latinos make up to 25% the electorate, 00:12:05.850 --> 00:12:08.290 responding in part to the anti-immigrant views 00:12:08.290 --> 00:12:10.490 of Newsom’s leading Republican challenger, 00:12:10.490 --> 00:12:13.810 right-wing radio host Larry Elder. 00:12:13.810 --> 00:12:15.330 Elder conceded Tuesday night 00:12:15.330 --> 00:12:17.250 but vowed to run again, saying, quote, 00:12:17.250 --> 00:12:21.060 "We may have lost the battle, but we’re going to win the war." 00:12:21.060 --> 00:12:23.000 Governor Newsom faces reelection next year. 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:26.140 For more, we go to Sacramento, the capital of California. 00:12:26.140 --> 00:12:27.920 We’re joined by Sasha Abramsky, 00:12:27.920 --> 00:12:30.050 "Left Coast" correspondent for The Nation 00:12:30.050 --> 00:12:33.370 who’s been closely following this recall attempt. 00:12:33.370 --> 00:12:34.800 Welcome back to Democracy Now! 00:12:34.800 --> 00:12:36.910 So, the final vote isn’t in, Sasha, 00:12:36.910 --> 00:12:40.200 but it looks like a two-to-one trouncing, 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:43.790 not something the Democrats thought along the way. 00:12:44.400 --> 00:12:46.740 Can you talk about what decided this 00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:49.240 and elevating this to a national level 00:12:49.240 --> 00:12:50.670 and taking on Elder 00:12:50.670 --> 00:12:53.120 as a surrogate for Trump, essentially? 00:12:54.280 --> 00:12:55.590 SASHA ABRAMSKY: Yeah. Good morning. 00:12:55.590 --> 00:12:56.820 You know, you’re right. 00:12:56.820 --> 00:12:58.350 I think most people didn’t predict this, 00:12:58.350 --> 00:12:59.570 and I certainly didn’t. 00:12:59.570 --> 00:13:02.080 I was following the polls for the last three months, 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:04.480 and I was writing about what could happen. 00:13:05.180 --> 00:13:06.800 And for the last three months, 00:13:06.800 --> 00:13:08.430 there were these sort of two different lines 00:13:08.430 --> 00:13:09.690 going on in the polls. 00:13:09.690 --> 00:13:12.750 So, one line was all voters in California. 00:13:12.750 --> 00:13:14.650 And right from the get-go, Newsom was ahead on that one, 00:13:14.650 --> 00:13:16.440 because this is a very, very blue state, 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:17.660 and, broadly speaking, 00:13:17.660 --> 00:13:19.380 Newsom’s policies, on climate change, 00:13:19.380 --> 00:13:21.910 on COVID vaccines, on abortion and so on, 00:13:22.620 --> 00:13:25.030 gel with the majority of Californians’ ideas 00:13:25.030 --> 00:13:27.490 about what kind of society they want to live on. 00:13:27.490 --> 00:13:30.550 But the second line was likely voters. 00:13:30.550 --> 00:13:31.930 And in July and August, 00:13:31.930 --> 00:13:35.080 you saw this sort of massive contraction of Newsom’s lead. 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:38.440 And in a lot of polls, especially about six weeks ago, 00:13:39.300 --> 00:13:40.560 Newsom was actually trailing. 00:13:40.560 --> 00:13:44.040 He wasn’t crossing that 50% threshold to survive the recall. 00:13:44.630 --> 00:13:46.130 I think what happened over the last month 00:13:46.130 --> 00:13:48.880 or so was Californians began paying attention. 00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:51.410 And California makes it easy to vote. 00:13:51.410 --> 00:13:53.200 You don’t have to jump through hoops like you do 00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:55.490 in Texas or Georgia or many of these other states 00:13:55.490 --> 00:13:57.390 that have imposed these restrictions. 00:13:57.390 --> 00:14:00.220 In California, you get mailed a ballot. 00:14:00.220 --> 00:14:03.730 In other words, the state makes it easy for you to vote. 00:14:03.730 --> 00:14:04.940 And what happened was, 00:14:04.940 --> 00:14:07.350 as the ballots came into people’s mailboxes, 00:14:07.350 --> 00:14:09.010 as attention started being focused 00:14:09.010 --> 00:14:10.710 nationally on this election, 00:14:11.250 --> 00:14:14.050 people started realizing what was at stake. 00:14:14.050 --> 00:14:15.960 That didn’t mean that as many people were going to vote 00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:17.680 as voted in the presidential election, 00:14:17.680 --> 00:14:19.850 but instead of it being a sort of catastrophically 00:14:19.850 --> 00:14:22.450 low voter turnout, more and more people said, 00:14:22.450 --> 00:14:24.910 "All right, I’m a likely voter here. This is easy. 00:14:24.910 --> 00:14:26.520 All I have to do is mail in a ballot. 00:14:26.520 --> 00:14:27.770 And the issues are important." 00:14:27.770 --> 00:14:30.380 And Larry Elder was a brilliant foil for Newsom, 00:14:30.380 --> 00:14:32.610 because Elder’s policies, they’re to the right 00:14:32.610 --> 00:14:34.370 of Greg Abbott’s policies in Texas. 00:14:34.370 --> 00:14:36.560 I mean, this guy is so far right-wing. 00:14:37.150 --> 00:14:39.630 And there was this real risk that California could sort of 00:14:39.630 --> 00:14:43.230 almost accidentally stumble into a far-right governorship. 00:14:44.140 --> 00:14:45.710 And I think Newsom played it very well, 00:14:45.710 --> 00:14:49.540 that he sort of used Elder relentlessly as his foil, 00:14:49.540 --> 00:14:51.510 and he managed to focus and coalesce 00:14:51.510 --> 00:14:53.960 his coalition’s attention on that issue. 00:14:55.630 --> 00:14:57.700 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Sasha, I wanted to ask you two things. 00:14:57.700 --> 00:15:00.550 First of all, looking back at it, 00:15:00.550 --> 00:15:02.260 this could have been the best thing 00:15:02.260 --> 00:15:05.450 that could have happened politically to Newsom, 00:15:05.450 --> 00:15:07.100 especially in light of the fact 00:15:07.100 --> 00:15:09.930 that there is a governor’s race in California next year. 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:14.120 So, that means that not only has he established, 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:18.090 closer to that election, the popular support he has, 00:15:18.090 --> 00:15:23.800 but also the reports are that he’s got $24 million additional 00:15:23.800 --> 00:15:26.950 left over from his fundraising for this campaign 00:15:26.950 --> 00:15:29.130 for that mayor’s race. I wanted to ask you about that, 00:15:29.130 --> 00:15:32.120 and then also about — a lot of the pundits were wrong, 00:15:32.120 --> 00:15:35.720 claiming that Latino voters in California 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:37.060 weren’t that interested, 00:15:37.060 --> 00:15:39.220 and yet we find a significant increase 00:15:39.220 --> 00:15:42.170 in the percentage of the vote 00:15:42.170 --> 00:15:44.030 that was from the Latino community 00:15:44.030 --> 00:15:47.690 in this recall election. 00:15:49.140 --> 00:15:50.560 SASHA ABRAMSKY: Yeah, and I think both of those 00:15:50.560 --> 00:15:51.920 are important points. 00:15:51.920 --> 00:15:54.080 Newsom is a formidable fundraiser. 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:56.240 He has other problems and other political baggage, 00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:58.680 but fundraising has never been one of Newsom’s problems. 00:15:58.680 --> 00:16:01.410 He’s keyed in to all of the top fundraising mechanisms 00:16:01.410 --> 00:16:03.980 in the state and in the country. 00:16:03.980 --> 00:16:06.330 And he used it to ruthless effect in this election. 00:16:06.330 --> 00:16:08.670 So, you’re right. He goes into 2024 — 00:16:08.670 --> 00:16:11.850 or, 2022, with a huge war chest. 00:16:12.610 --> 00:16:16.040 The other thing about that is, when Newsom was riding high 00:16:16.040 --> 00:16:18.790 at the start of the pandemic, back in the spring of 2020, 00:16:18.790 --> 00:16:20.180 when he shut the state down early, 00:16:20.180 --> 00:16:22.080 he stopped a sort of initial surge, 00:16:22.860 --> 00:16:25.330 people talked about him as a viable presidential candidate. 00:16:25.330 --> 00:16:26.730 And then the pandemic dragged on, 00:16:26.730 --> 00:16:30.190 and his responses seemed to sort of be less successful, 00:16:30.190 --> 00:16:33.190 and the opposition to the lockdowns grew more vocal. 00:16:33.190 --> 00:16:34.930 And the sort of conventional wisdom 00:16:34.930 --> 00:16:38.240 was that Newsom’s moment in the spotlight had gone, 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:40.130 that he had sort of messed up enough 00:16:40.130 --> 00:16:42.380 that he was no longer a top-tier candidate. 00:16:42.380 --> 00:16:43.900 I think what yesterday’s election shows 00:16:43.900 --> 00:16:47.460 is somebody with that kind of fundraising potential 00:16:47.460 --> 00:16:49.840 and somebody who is that able to knock down 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:52.570 and sort of almost swat away Trumpism 00:16:52.570 --> 00:16:54.520 and the Trumpist claims about a rigged election 00:16:54.520 --> 00:16:57.060 and so on, you have to consider him 00:16:57.060 --> 00:16:59.240 as a potential presidential candidate, 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:02.220 you know, maybe in 2024, but far more likely in 2028. 00:17:03.250 --> 00:17:04.630 So, I think that’s number one. 00:17:04.630 --> 00:17:06.950 Your other issue about the Latino vote, 00:17:06.950 --> 00:17:10.490 you’re absolutely right again on this, that for the last many, 00:17:10.490 --> 00:17:13.400 many weeks there was a series of articles coming out 00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:15.000 saying that Latinos were disengaged. 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:17.320 And The New York Times had a huge piece 00:17:17.320 --> 00:17:20.220 saying that they either weren’t voting in large numbers 00:17:20.220 --> 00:17:22.220 or were tilting sort of more rightward 00:17:22.220 --> 00:17:23.610 than would be expected. 00:17:23.610 --> 00:17:25.340 And in actual fact, that didn’t happen. 00:17:25.340 --> 00:17:27.750 In actual fact, if you look at the coalition 00:17:27.750 --> 00:17:29.860 that supported Newsom yesterday, 00:17:29.860 --> 00:17:31.720 that coalition is fairly much the same 00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:33.290 as the coalition that put him into power 00:17:33.290 --> 00:17:36.520 with a 24-point win in 2018. 00:17:36.520 --> 00:17:39.410 Newsom is going to win by either 24 or 25 00:17:39.410 --> 00:17:42.910 or maybe even 26%. It is a lower voter turnout, 00:17:42.910 --> 00:17:45.540 but it’s not a catastrophically lower voter turnout. 00:17:45.540 --> 00:17:47.120 And I think that’s really important to note, 00:17:47.120 --> 00:17:50.080 that all of the moving parts 00:17:50.080 --> 00:17:53.170 of the complex Democratic coalition in California 00:17:53.170 --> 00:17:54.870 came out to vote yesterday. 00:17:56.410 --> 00:17:58.700 AMY GOODMAN: And if you can talk about the issues 00:17:58.700 --> 00:18:02.450 that Democrats and the Latinx population 00:18:02.450 --> 00:18:05.630 and, overall, progressives in California 00:18:05.630 --> 00:18:07.820 have been critical of Newsom for 00:18:07.820 --> 00:18:11.320 and how he may change course in this year — 00:18:11.320 --> 00:18:14.780 for example, around relationships with ICE, 00:18:15.700 --> 00:18:19.320 as well as the unhoused, 00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:22.450 particularly made difficult during this time 00:18:22.450 --> 00:18:24.510 of massive fires through California? 00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:26.390 SASHA ABRAMSKY: Yeah. 00:18:26.390 --> 00:18:28.040 I mean, Newsom has, in many ways, 00:18:28.040 --> 00:18:29.730 run to the left as a governor. 00:18:29.730 --> 00:18:31.980 He has talked the talk on the environment, 00:18:31.980 --> 00:18:33.960 though he hasn’t always walked the walk. 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:36.930 He’s certainly doing big and bold things on housing. 00:18:36.930 --> 00:18:39.750 He’s put $12 billion into tackling housing 00:18:39.750 --> 00:18:41.280 and the unhoused. And that’s a huge issue, 00:18:41.280 --> 00:18:45.010 because this state has 160,000-plus homeless people. 00:18:45.730 --> 00:18:47.730 And here in Sacramento, which is not a big city — 00:18:47.730 --> 00:18:50.380 it’s about half a million people — on any given night, 00:18:50.380 --> 00:18:52.740 there are 5,000 people sleeping on the streets. 00:18:52.740 --> 00:18:54.730 So, one in 100 residents in Sacramento 00:18:54.730 --> 00:18:57.390 is sleeping on the streets. This is extraordinary. 00:18:58.110 --> 00:18:59.980 Newsom has put in an absolutely vast 00:18:59.980 --> 00:19:01.280 amount of money in the last year, 00:19:01.280 --> 00:19:04.570 in particular, into trying to solve those issues. 00:19:04.570 --> 00:19:05.950 So, you asked: What are the issues 00:19:05.950 --> 00:19:07.390 that are sort of getting Democrats 00:19:07.390 --> 00:19:08.940 angry about Newsom’s governorship, 00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:11.320 and what are the issues that he can now sort of run on 00:19:11.320 --> 00:19:13.100 and move on? 00:19:13.100 --> 00:19:15.560 Environment is up there. Wildfires are up there. 00:19:15.560 --> 00:19:18.310 California has had this series of catastrophic wildfires 00:19:18.310 --> 00:19:21.830 for six years in a row now. Housing is up there. 00:19:21.830 --> 00:19:23.830 But also things like access to healthcare. 00:19:23.830 --> 00:19:27.310 I mean, this is a very expensive state in many, many ways, 00:19:27.310 --> 00:19:29.880 but one way that Newsom is making it less expensive 00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:33.260 is he’s putting in place, through signing a series of laws 00:19:33.260 --> 00:19:34.900 that make healthcare more affordable, 00:19:34.900 --> 00:19:36.130 not just for the uninsured, 00:19:36.130 --> 00:19:38.730 but for the people using the California health exchange — 00:19:38.730 --> 00:19:43.530 so, you’re getting put in place, on healthcare, on housing, 00:19:43.530 --> 00:19:46.360 on various other social programs, 00:19:46.360 --> 00:19:48.300 the beginning of something that looks 00:19:48.300 --> 00:19:50.530 like a social democracy in California, 00:19:50.530 --> 00:19:52.610 that you’re seeing a series of policies 00:19:52.610 --> 00:19:56.590 being created and being pushed that more resemble 00:19:56.590 --> 00:19:59.200 maybe a Scandinavian social democracy 00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:01.130 than Texas or Mississippi or Georgia. 00:20:02.020 --> 00:20:03.400 And that’s obviously a low bar, 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:05.020 because nobody wants to look like Texas 00:20:05.020 --> 00:20:06.240 or Mississippi or Georgia, 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:08.170 if they have progressive credentials. 00:20:08.170 --> 00:20:09.780 But what I mean by that is California 00:20:09.780 --> 00:20:12.660 is charting its own course. And it’s doing so in a way 00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:15.010 that could have major ramifications nationally, 00:20:15.670 --> 00:20:17.430 because, you know, it’s an old canard: 00:20:17.430 --> 00:20:19.790 Where California goes, the rest of the country follows. 00:20:19.790 --> 00:20:21.110 Well, not always. 00:20:21.110 --> 00:20:23.280 But California is putting in place 00:20:23.280 --> 00:20:26.790 a template that’s going to produce a more comprehensive — 00:20:26.790 --> 00:20:28.170 not quite cradle to the grave, 00:20:28.170 --> 00:20:30.760 but a much more comprehensive social safety net. 00:20:30.760 --> 00:20:33.570 And if it works — if it works — 00:20:33.570 --> 00:20:36.790 it’s going to produce an extraordinary momentum 00:20:36.790 --> 00:20:38.940 nationally to enact some of these measures. 00:20:40.040 --> 00:20:41.550 AMY GOODMAN: We want to thank you, Sasha Abramsky, 00:20:41.550 --> 00:20:42.970 for joining us, the so-called 00:20:42.970 --> 00:20:46.180 Left Coast correspondent for The Nation. 00:20:46.180 --> 00:20:48.600 Next up, we’re going to Afghanistan, 00:20:48.600 --> 00:20:49.990 where new evidence has emerged 00:20:49.990 --> 00:20:53.170 showing a recent U.S. drone strike killed 00:20:53.170 --> 00:20:57.360 10 innocent civilians, including seven children. 00:20:57.360 --> 00:20:59.640 The Pentagon has claimed it was a, quote, 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:01.730 "righteous attack." Stay with 00:21:50.820 --> 00:21:52.520 us. 00:22:08.620 --> 00:22:09.860 AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, 00:22:09.860 --> 00:22:12.470 democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. 00:22:12.470 --> 00:22:14.720 I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González. 00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:16.420 We turn now to Afghanistan. 00:22:16.420 --> 00:22:20.240 It’s been one month since the Taliban seized control of Kabul 00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:23.660 after Afghan President Ashraf Ghani fled the country. 00:22:23.660 --> 00:22:25.870 On Tuesday, U.S. Secretary of State Tony 00:22:25.870 --> 00:22:28.510 Blinken defended the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan 00:22:28.510 --> 00:22:31.230 during a second day of questioning on Capitol Hill. 00:22:31.230 --> 00:22:33.410 Blinken was grilled about a U.S. 00:22:33.410 --> 00:22:37.200 drone strike in Kabul on August 29th. 00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:40.570 It’s the last drone strike before the withdrawal. 00:22:40.570 --> 00:22:43.410 The Pentagon claimed the strike targeted a facilitator 00:22:43.410 --> 00:22:45.940 with the militant group ISIS-K 00:22:45.940 --> 00:22:48.890 who was preparing to attack the Kabul airport. 00:22:48.890 --> 00:22:51.280 But local residents said the strike killed 00:22:51.280 --> 00:22:52.990 10 Afghan civilians, 00:22:52.990 --> 00:22:56.470 including seven children and Zemari Ahmadi — 00:22:57.120 --> 00:22:59.250 not an ISIS-K operative, 00:22:59.250 --> 00:23:01.700 but an Afghan engineer who had worked 00:23:01.700 --> 00:23:04.520 since 2006 for the California-based 00:23:04.520 --> 00:23:08.260 charity group Nutrition and Education International. 00:23:08.890 --> 00:23:11.600 The Pentagon claims surveillance video showed Zemari 00:23:11.600 --> 00:23:14.250 loading what they thought were explosives into a car 00:23:14.250 --> 00:23:16.349 at an unknown compound earlier in the day. 00:23:17.020 --> 00:23:20.240 But video evidence obtained by The New York Times found Zemari 00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:23.590 was actually loading canisters of water 00:23:23.590 --> 00:23:27.300 at the charity’s office to deliver to those in need. 00:23:27.300 --> 00:23:29.170 The Pentagon has described the drone attack 00:23:29.170 --> 00:23:31.020 as a "righteous" strike. 00:23:31.020 --> 00:23:33.000 But on Tuesday, Secretary of State Blinken 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:35.460 acknowledged the U.S. is not certain who was targeted, 00:23:35.460 --> 00:23:37.860 when questioned by Republican Senator Rand Paul. 00:23:38.970 --> 00:23:40.320 SEN. RAND PAUL: The guy the Biden administration 00:23:40.320 --> 00:23:41.520 droned, 00:23:41.520 --> 00:23:44.400 was he an aid worker or an ISIS-K operative? 00:23:46.450 --> 00:23:48.400 SECRETARY OF STATE ANTONY BLINKEN: The administration is, 00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:51.780 of course, reviewing that — that strike, 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:54.190 and I’m sure that a, you know, 00:23:54.190 --> 00:23:55.730 full assessment will be — will be forthcoming. 00:23:55.730 --> 00:23:56.960 SEN. RAND PAUL: So you don’t know 00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:59.180 if it was an aid worker or an ISIS-K operative? 00:23:59.180 --> 00:24:00.400 SECRETARY OF STATE ANTONY BLINKEN: I can’t speak to that. 00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:02.010 And I can’t speak to that in this setting, in any event. 00:24:02.010 --> 00:24:03.220 SEN. RAND PAUL: So, you don’t know 00:24:03.220 --> 00:24:04.540 or won’t tell us? SECRETARY OF STATE ANTONY 00:24:04.540 --> 00:24:05.760 BLINKEN: I don’t — I don’t know, 00:24:05.760 --> 00:24:06.990 because we’re reviewing it. 00:24:06.990 --> 00:24:08.200 SEN. RAND PAUL: Well, see, 00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:09.510 you’d think that you’d kind of know, 00:24:09.510 --> 00:24:11.820 before you off somebody with a Predator drone, 00:24:11.820 --> 00:24:15.150 whether he’s an aid worker or he’s an ISIS-K. 00:24:15.150 --> 00:24:17.270 See, the thing is, is this isn’t just you. 00:24:17.270 --> 00:24:18.630 It’s been going on for administration 00:24:18.630 --> 00:24:20.240 after administration. 00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:22.090 AMY GOODMAN: We go now to Kabul, Afghanistan, 00:24:22.090 --> 00:24:24.490 where we’re joined by Matthieu Aikins of The New York Times. 00:24:24.490 --> 00:24:26.290 He wrote the recent piece headlined 00:24:26.290 --> 00:24:30.680 "In U.S. Drone Strike, Evidence Suggests No ISIS Bomb." 00:24:31.220 --> 00:24:34.370 Matthieu, talk about going to the site, 00:24:34.370 --> 00:24:36.780 to the family’s home, where the car was, 00:24:36.780 --> 00:24:40.890 and describe what you learned happened that day, August 29th. 00:24:43.360 --> 00:24:44.630 MATTHIEU AIKINS: Well, August 29th, 00:24:44.630 --> 00:24:46.850 there was the strike in the evening. 00:24:46.850 --> 00:24:49.220 And we went the next morning, myself 00:24:49.220 --> 00:24:50.420 and a photographer for the Times, 00:24:50.420 --> 00:24:54.300 Jim Huylebroek, and we arrived at the scene. 00:24:54.300 --> 00:24:56.590 It was inside a courtyard of a house, 00:24:57.140 --> 00:24:58.420 where a car had been hit. 00:24:58.420 --> 00:25:03.590 And there was a small crater, still flesh and blood spattered 00:25:03.590 --> 00:25:05.230 around the interior of the courtyard. 00:25:05.230 --> 00:25:06.990 And we spoke to the family who lived there, 00:25:06.990 --> 00:25:09.330 and they were extremely distraught, 00:25:09.330 --> 00:25:12.580 because they had just lost 10 members of the family, 00:25:12.580 --> 00:25:16.470 including seven children. So, it was immediately apparent 00:25:16.470 --> 00:25:19.360 that there had been civilian casualties in the strike. 00:25:19.360 --> 00:25:21.510 And then, you know, when we followed up 00:25:21.510 --> 00:25:24.540 with our investigation over the past two weeks, 00:25:25.630 --> 00:25:28.060 we put together evidence that showed that this — 00:25:28.060 --> 00:25:29.260 what the military interpreted 00:25:29.260 --> 00:25:32.780 as a series of suspicious moves from the sky was, 00:25:32.780 --> 00:25:35.690 according to his co-workers and colleagues and video evidence, 00:25:35.690 --> 00:25:37.739 just an ordinary day for this aid worker. 00:25:41.050 --> 00:25:45.750 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Matthieu, the continued stonewalling, 00:25:45.750 --> 00:25:49.570 effectively, of the government in terms 00:25:49.570 --> 00:25:53.410 of what they have found out since is really remarkable. 00:25:53.410 --> 00:25:57.100 I’m just wondering — basic stuff like how many people died. 00:25:57.930 --> 00:26:00.920 And there’s a big difference between 10 00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:02.520 and the official count 00:26:02.520 --> 00:26:05.040 that the U.S. is still saying of three civilians. 00:26:05.730 --> 00:26:10.360 They haven’t quite explained why they claimed Mr. Ahmadi 00:26:10.360 --> 00:26:13.820 was driving into an unknown compound at one point, 00:26:13.820 --> 00:26:18.680 which actually was the aid agency’s headquarters in Kabul. 00:26:21.600 --> 00:26:25.690 And also, they’re not even making clear 00:26:25.690 --> 00:26:26.950 whether they’ve checked 00:26:26.950 --> 00:26:32.680 if he was an employee of this U.S.-based aid group. 00:26:33.890 --> 00:26:37.190 What do you make of this continued almost refusal 00:26:37.190 --> 00:26:41.100 to explain the results of what they’ve investigated so far? 00:26:42.530 --> 00:26:43.760 MATTHIEU AIKINS: Well, certainly, 00:26:43.760 --> 00:26:46.210 they have a lot to answer for, a lot to explain. 00:26:47.340 --> 00:26:49.240 But they are conducting an investigation, 00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:52.540 and typically when the military does this sort of investigation, 00:26:52.540 --> 00:26:54.640 you do have to wait for the results. 00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:56.230 They’re going to be classified, 00:26:56.230 --> 00:26:58.380 but they’ll probably brief them to lawmakers 00:26:58.380 --> 00:26:59.990 and then eventually release 00:26:59.990 --> 00:27:02.530 a redacted version of the investigation. 00:27:02.530 --> 00:27:05.850 So, at this point, I don’t think we’re going to hear anything, 00:27:05.850 --> 00:27:08.250 at least not officially, until that’s completed. 00:27:09.950 --> 00:27:11.420 AMY GOODMAN: On September 1st, 00:27:11.420 --> 00:27:13.370 the chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, 00:27:13.370 --> 00:27:14.660 General Mark Milley, 00:27:14.660 --> 00:27:17.990 described the drone attack as a "righteous" strike. 00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:20.210 GEN. MARK MILLEY: We know that there 00:27:20.210 --> 00:27:22.340 were secondary explosions. 00:27:22.340 --> 00:27:23.860 Because there were secondary explosions, 00:27:23.860 --> 00:27:26.490 there is a reasonable conclusion to be made 00:27:26.490 --> 00:27:28.440 that there was explosives in that vehicle. 00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:30.300 The third thing is, we know from a variety of other 00:27:30.300 --> 00:27:33.500 means that at least one of those people that were killed 00:27:33.500 --> 00:27:37.780 was an ISIS facilitator. So, were there others killed? 00:27:37.780 --> 00:27:40.680 Yes, there are others killed. Who they are, we don’t know. 00:27:41.360 --> 00:27:43.510 We’ll try to sort through all that. 00:27:43.510 --> 00:27:45.730 But we believe that the procedures, at this point — 00:27:45.730 --> 00:27:48.680 I don’t want to influence the outcome of an investigation — 00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:50.540 but, at this point, we think that the procedures 00:27:50.540 --> 00:27:52.850 were correctly followed and it was a righteous strike. 00:27:52.850 --> 00:27:54.270 AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s General Mark Milley. 00:27:54.270 --> 00:27:56.290 Evidence examined by The New York Times 00:27:56.290 --> 00:27:58.000 at the scene of the drone strike suggests 00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:00.280 there was not a second explosion. 00:28:01.250 --> 00:28:03.320 NARRATOR: We gathered photos and videos of the scene 00:28:03.320 --> 00:28:06.780 taken by journalists and visited the courtyard multiple times. 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:10.110 We shared the evidence with three weapons experts, 00:28:10.110 --> 00:28:11.700 who said the damage was consistent 00:28:11.700 --> 00:28:13.990 with the impact of a Hellfire missile. 00:28:13.990 --> 00:28:16.900 They pointed to the small crater beneath Ahmadi’s car, 00:28:17.530 --> 00:28:20.180 and the damage from the metal fragments of a warhead. 00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:24.030 This plastic melted as a result of a car fire 00:28:24.030 --> 00:28:25.730 triggered by the missile strike. 00:28:26.290 --> 00:28:28.940 All three experts also pointed out what was missing: 00:28:29.480 --> 00:28:32.620 any evidence of the large secondary explosions 00:28:32.620 --> 00:28:36.610 described by the Pentagon — no collapsed or blown-out walls, 00:28:36.610 --> 00:28:39.480 including next to the trunk with the alleged explosives; 00:28:40.190 --> 00:28:42.800 no sign that a second car parked in the courtyard 00:28:42.800 --> 00:28:46.700 was overturned by a large blast; no destroyed vegetation. 00:28:48.360 --> 00:28:50.710 All of this matches what eyewitnesses told us, 00:28:51.250 --> 00:28:54.870 that a single missile exploded and triggered a large fire. 00:28:55.470 --> 00:28:57.430 AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s The New York Times 00:28:57.430 --> 00:29:02.210 video report based on Matthieu Aikins’ investigation 00:29:02.210 --> 00:29:04.590 of the U.S. drone strike. 00:29:04.590 --> 00:29:07.490 So, if you could elaborate on that, Matthieu, 00:29:07.490 --> 00:29:09.900 and also talk about why the children, 00:29:09.900 --> 00:29:12.730 why there were seven children in Zemari’s car? 00:29:13.850 --> 00:29:15.170 MATTHIEU AIKINS: Sure. 00:29:15.170 --> 00:29:17.170 Well, the investigation was definitely a team effort. 00:29:17.170 --> 00:29:20.200 And we had experts look at the photos 00:29:20.200 --> 00:29:23.010 and videos that we were able to collect from the scene. 00:29:23.010 --> 00:29:26.290 And that was really the military’s justification, 00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:28.810 from what we’ve learned at least thus far, 00:29:28.810 --> 00:29:30.300 for taking the strike, you know, 00:29:30.300 --> 00:29:32.890 that this was an imminent threat to the airport, 00:29:32.890 --> 00:29:34.830 because they took the shot 00:29:34.830 --> 00:29:36.920 inside a crowded residential neighborhood, 00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:39.030 where there was a very high likelihood 00:29:39.030 --> 00:29:40.560 of civilian casualties. 00:29:40.560 --> 00:29:42.000 You know, that’s a kind of assumption 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:44.750 that I think would have been fair in that circumstance. 00:29:44.750 --> 00:29:46.750 So, really, the way they would have justified this 00:29:46.750 --> 00:29:49.650 was that this was a car bomb or some kind of imminent threat. 00:29:49.650 --> 00:29:51.360 And I think it’s pretty conclusive 00:29:51.360 --> 00:29:54.480 that there was not a larger explosive in this car. 00:29:55.050 --> 00:29:59.590 Now, what happened was, is that Zemari’s family, 00:29:59.590 --> 00:30:01.360 you know, the kids — he lived with his three brothers, 00:30:01.360 --> 00:30:02.720 so there was a lot of kids in this house. 00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:05.060 And when he came home every day from work, 00:30:05.060 --> 00:30:06.760 as I was told by his brother, 00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:09.180 you know, he’d pull up, and the kids would run out, 00:30:09.180 --> 00:30:10.440 and they’d be excited to see him. 00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:12.030 And they’d get in the car, and, you know, 00:30:12.030 --> 00:30:13.700 usually one of them would sit behind the wheel, 00:30:13.700 --> 00:30:16.440 maybe on his lap, and they would back the car in the courtyard. 00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:17.870 So, that’s what they said happened that day, 00:30:17.870 --> 00:30:19.630 so those kids were in the car 00:30:19.630 --> 00:30:21.880 when it was struck by a Hellfire missile. 00:30:21.880 --> 00:30:24.530 And that is the reason why seven of them were killed. 00:30:26.630 --> 00:30:28.320 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Matthieu, what does this — 00:30:28.320 --> 00:30:32.370 from your reporting in Afghanistan, 00:30:32.370 --> 00:30:36.140 what does this tell us about the limitations 00:30:36.140 --> 00:30:38.060 of these drone strikes, 00:30:38.060 --> 00:30:43.410 the inherent problems that exist when you rely, essentially, 00:30:43.410 --> 00:30:49.480 on aerial surveillance to determine who you strike, 00:30:49.480 --> 00:30:55.410 or not, versus on-the-ground, real human intelligence? 00:30:56.620 --> 00:30:57.850 MATTHIEU AIKINS: Yeah. 00:30:57.850 --> 00:30:59.530 So, this is not an isolated incident. 00:30:59.530 --> 00:31:02.310 You know, we’ve had civilian casualties from drone 00:31:02.310 --> 00:31:04.740 strikes many times over the years. 00:31:04.740 --> 00:31:06.960 But the fact of the matter was, this happened in Kabul. 00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:08.640 You know, I was able to go to the scene, 00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:10.660 and we were able to do the story in two weeks. 00:31:10.660 --> 00:31:13.890 Normally these happen in remote, dangerous areas, 00:31:13.890 --> 00:31:16.400 difficult to access. So, often all we have 00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:18.990 is the military’s official version of the events — 00:31:18.990 --> 00:31:21.560 in this case, that this guy was an ISIS facilitator 00:31:21.560 --> 00:31:23.620 and that there was explosives in the car. 00:31:23.620 --> 00:31:26.840 So, the danger with these strikes, 00:31:26.840 --> 00:31:28.970 which — again, this may have been the last drone strike 00:31:28.970 --> 00:31:32.700 of the 20-year American war, but the war on terror continues, 00:31:32.700 --> 00:31:35.030 and there’s going to be more drone strikes, 00:31:35.030 --> 00:31:37.960 you know, as promised by the administration, 00:31:38.650 --> 00:31:43.460 in an over-the-horizon role in places like Afghanistan. 00:31:43.460 --> 00:31:46.540 The danger is that we’re going to have more of these incidents, 00:31:46.540 --> 00:31:48.010 there’s going to be more children killed, 00:31:48.010 --> 00:31:50.700 but that we’re not going to really even know about it, 00:31:50.700 --> 00:31:52.790 because, again, we’re not going to have access 00:31:52.790 --> 00:31:54.410 to what’s happening on the ground. 00:31:54.410 --> 00:31:56.360 AMY GOODMAN: And, of course, these drone strikes lessen 00:31:56.360 --> 00:31:58.500 the chance of U.S. soldiers being killed, 00:32:00.090 --> 00:32:02.770 as they fly over from another country, as you said, 00:32:02.770 --> 00:32:06.330 the over-the-horizon capability they’re talking about. 00:32:06.330 --> 00:32:09.460 But I wanted to go to one last video that you obtained, 00:32:09.460 --> 00:32:11.620 security camera footage 00:32:11.620 --> 00:32:13.650 from the office of the U.S.-based 00:32:13.650 --> 00:32:17.190 aid group Nutrition and Education International, 00:32:17.190 --> 00:32:21.270 where Zemari Ahmadi had worked earlier in the day. 00:32:22.990 --> 00:32:26.430 NARRATOR: At 2:35 p.m., Ahmadi pulls out a hose. 00:32:26.430 --> 00:32:29.990 And then he and a co-worker fill empty containers with water. 00:32:31.380 --> 00:32:34.190 Earlier that morning, we saw Ahmadi bring these same 00:32:34.190 --> 00:32:36.190 empty plastic containers to the office. 00:32:36.860 --> 00:32:38.630 There was a water shortage in his neighborhood, 00:32:38.630 --> 00:32:39.910 his family said, 00:32:39.910 --> 00:32:42.220 so he regularly brought water home from the office. 00:32:42.220 --> 00:32:43.490 AMY GOODMAN: So, we’re looking 00:32:43.490 --> 00:32:46.210 at this closed-circuit footage of him 00:32:46.210 --> 00:32:49.730 gathering this water to bring home. 00:32:49.730 --> 00:32:52.520 The U.S. apparently was monitoring him 00:32:52.520 --> 00:32:54.890 for hours that day, Matthieu. 00:32:57.260 --> 00:33:00.610 MATTHIEU AIKINS: Yeah, they said that they were surveilling him 00:33:00.610 --> 00:33:02.810 with an MQ-9 Reaper drone. 00:33:03.390 --> 00:33:06.330 But, again, you know, what they see from the sky 00:33:06.330 --> 00:33:07.710 and what’s happening on the ground 00:33:07.710 --> 00:33:09.390 are not necessarily the same thing. 00:33:09.390 --> 00:33:10.860 And in this case, you know, 00:33:10.860 --> 00:33:13.990 this was a man who had loaded water in the car 00:33:13.990 --> 00:33:15.690 to bring home to his family. 00:33:17.710 --> 00:33:19.060 AMY GOODMAN: Well, Matthieu, 00:33:19.060 --> 00:33:21.410 we want to thank you so much for being with us. 00:33:21.410 --> 00:33:24.270 Matthieu Aikins, Kabul-based contributing writer 00:33:24.270 --> 00:33:26.710 to The New York Times and The New York Times 00:33:26.710 --> 00:33:30.850 Magazine, his investigation into the drone strike headlined 00:33:30.850 --> 00:33:35.740 "In U.S. Drone Strike, Evidence Suggests No ISIS Bomb." 00:33:36.600 --> 00:33:39.760 Next up, we go to a clinical social worker 00:33:39.760 --> 00:33:45.250 helping undocumented 9/11 responders and cleanup workers 00:33:45.250 --> 00:33:54.930 20 years later, even to this day. Stay with us. 00:34:57.810 --> 00:34:59.030 AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy 00:34:59.030 --> 00:35:01.680 Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. 00:35:01.680 --> 00:35:03.720 I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González. 00:35:03.720 --> 00:35:06.350 Yes, this past weekend marked the 20th anniversary 00:35:06.350 --> 00:35:07.690 of the 9/11 attacks 00:35:07.690 --> 00:35:12.070 that killed 3,000 people, September 11, 2001, 00:35:12.070 --> 00:35:16.010 including hundreds of immigrants who worked low-wage jobs, 00:35:16.010 --> 00:35:18.370 cleaning and restaurant jobs 00:35:18.370 --> 00:35:19.890 in the World Trade Center towers. 00:35:19.890 --> 00:35:23.720 As many as 6,000 undocumented immigrants later took part 00:35:23.720 --> 00:35:26.110 in the recovery and cleanup efforts. 00:35:26.110 --> 00:35:29.310 Today we’re continuing our coverage of the impact of 9/11 00:35:29.310 --> 00:35:33.360 as we look at those who went uncounted in death, 00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:37.290 as they go uncounted in life, because they were undocumented. 00:35:38.010 --> 00:35:41.400 Others feared deportation, didn’t seek medical help. 00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:44.920 This is Maria Penafiel, an immigrant from Colombia 00:35:44.920 --> 00:35:48.110 who helped in the cleanup efforts after the 9/11 attacks, 00:35:48.110 --> 00:35:51.910 speaking in the new documentary 9/11’s Unsettled Dust. 00:35:52.990 --> 00:35:54.690 MARIA PENAFIEL: I was working 00:35:55.380 --> 00:35:58.550 at Stuyvesant High School. 00:35:58.550 --> 00:36:02.060 They don’t give the hazmat to wearing for cleaning. 00:36:02.620 --> 00:36:08.080 Most of the people cleaning around 00:36:08.700 --> 00:36:09.930 and cleaning in the building 00:36:09.930 --> 00:36:13.210 around the World Trade Center are undocumented. ... 00:36:13.880 --> 00:36:16.750 When you speak about the trauma, 00:36:19.010 --> 00:36:30.080 for me it was terrible, because the day doesn’t finish. 00:36:31.350 --> 00:36:33.290 AMY GOODMAN: You can see our full show 00:36:33.290 --> 00:36:37.950 on 9/11’s Unsettled Dust at democracynow.org, 00:36:37.950 --> 00:36:40.950 that also features the investigative work 00:36:40.950 --> 00:36:43.020 of our very own Juan González, 00:36:43.020 --> 00:36:44.690 who should have won a Pulitzer Prize 00:36:44.690 --> 00:36:48.160 for the investigation of what happened to so many 00:36:48.160 --> 00:36:52.440 as a result of the carcinogenic and deadly substances 00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:56.680 in the aftermath of the attacks that people inhaled. 00:36:56.680 --> 00:36:59.200 Well, now some of the immigrant 9/11 responders 00:36:59.200 --> 00:37:01.150 and cleanup workers are calling for lawmakers 00:37:01.150 --> 00:37:03.700 to establish a pathway for legal residency, 00:37:04.760 --> 00:37:07.820 that could cover as many as 2,000 immigrants. 00:37:07.820 --> 00:37:10.070 Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez 00:37:10.070 --> 00:37:12.200 has said she is actively exploring 00:37:12.200 --> 00:37:16.990 the possibility of reintroducing a bill to do this, 00:37:16.990 --> 00:37:20.260 a bill that the man she beat for Congress, 00:37:20.260 --> 00:37:22.310 Joe Crowley, had introduced. 00:37:22.310 --> 00:37:25.200 For more, we’re joined by Rosa Bramble Caballero, 00:37:25.200 --> 00:37:26.680 a licensed clinical social worker 00:37:26.680 --> 00:37:29.430 who’s helped immigrant 9/11 workers for 15 years 00:37:29.430 --> 00:37:30.960 and hosts meetings in the basement 00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:32.830 of her office in Queens. 00:37:32.830 --> 00:37:34.950 Rosa, thank you so much for being with us. 00:37:34.950 --> 00:37:36.640 What should we understand? 00:37:36.640 --> 00:37:40.860 This whole idea that those who go uncounted in life 00:37:40.860 --> 00:37:42.110 go uncounted in death, 00:37:42.110 --> 00:37:44.460 maybe we don’t even know the exact number of people 00:37:44.460 --> 00:37:46.210 who died at the World Trade Center. 00:37:47.270 --> 00:37:48.470 ROSA MARIA BRAMBLE CABALLERO: Yes. 00:37:48.470 --> 00:37:50.780 Good morning, Amy. Thank you for having me. 00:37:50.780 --> 00:37:53.550 Actually, with the undocumented workers 00:37:53.550 --> 00:37:57.000 who worked at ground zero in the recovery efforts, 00:37:57.970 --> 00:38:01.420 many actually have died or have returned to their countries. 00:38:01.420 --> 00:38:05.040 And there’s really no record, 00:38:05.040 --> 00:38:08.530 because no one is really keeping record of these workers, 00:38:08.530 --> 00:38:10.940 who really sacrificed their lives, 00:38:10.940 --> 00:38:15.240 because as many people, many of us — right? 00:38:15.240 --> 00:38:18.000 — were in our homes and in our safety, 00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:20.580 they were out there cleaning up, 00:38:20.580 --> 00:38:23.060 exposing themselves to so many toxins. 00:38:24.510 --> 00:38:26.920 And they had a spirit of recovery. 00:38:26.920 --> 00:38:30.300 They wanted to be part of the effort. 00:38:31.940 --> 00:38:34.270 And now, 20 years later, 00:38:34.270 --> 00:38:36.340 they’re pretty much left in the dark. 00:38:36.340 --> 00:38:41.960 Like one of the workers said, "Estamos olvidados. 00:38:42.730 --> 00:38:45.600 Nos dejaron olvidados." "We have been forgotten." 00:38:46.390 --> 00:38:51.200 And because, after 20 years, many of them cannot work, 00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:56.050 and at least a status to citizenship 00:38:57.150 --> 00:39:00.930 would really not only acknowledge their work, 00:39:00.930 --> 00:39:02.630 but would also help them 00:39:03.640 --> 00:39:06.140 have other options of other types of work. 00:39:07.050 --> 00:39:10.730 Some of them have left their — have returned to their countries 00:39:10.730 --> 00:39:12.500 and have come back through the borders 00:39:12.500 --> 00:39:15.320 in order to be able to get medical monitoring, 00:39:16.310 --> 00:39:18.060 but they’re undocumented. 00:39:18.060 --> 00:39:23.690 And they were present in such a devastating day. 00:39:24.300 --> 00:39:28.340 And we have not really honored them as we should. 00:39:29.350 --> 00:39:30.620 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Rosa Maria, 00:39:30.620 --> 00:39:32.850 there were actually two categories 00:39:32.850 --> 00:39:34.700 of undocumented workers. 00:39:34.700 --> 00:39:37.830 There were those who were in the towers 00:39:37.830 --> 00:39:39.550 when the attack happened. 00:39:39.550 --> 00:39:41.930 There were many who worked, for instance, 00:39:41.930 --> 00:39:44.060 in the restaurants, at Windows on the World 00:39:44.060 --> 00:39:47.020 at the top of 1 World Trade Center. 00:39:47.020 --> 00:39:50.620 There were some that worked in maintenance of the buildings, 00:39:50.620 --> 00:39:53.770 as well, who were directly affected that day. 00:39:53.770 --> 00:39:55.010 But then, as you mentioned, 00:39:55.010 --> 00:39:56.810 also there were people that were brought in 00:39:56.810 --> 00:40:01.000 because every single building in Lower Manhattan 00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:04.080 had to be decontaminated or cleaned up after the attacks — 00:40:04.080 --> 00:40:05.390 ROSA MARIA BRAMBLE CABALLERO: Right. 00:40:05.390 --> 00:40:06.630 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: — from the contaminants. 00:40:06.630 --> 00:40:08.940 And the city of New York basically left it up 00:40:08.940 --> 00:40:12.660 to each individual landlord to do its own cleanup. 00:40:12.660 --> 00:40:17.150 Not any kind of checking or safety precautions 00:40:17.150 --> 00:40:18.350 were instituted. 00:40:18.350 --> 00:40:22.280 So, what has happened to both of these categories 00:40:22.280 --> 00:40:25.300 in terms of the compensation funds that have been set up? 00:40:26.150 --> 00:40:29.240 Are they eligible for them? Or, what has happened, 00:40:29.240 --> 00:40:32.290 as far as you know from the people you’ve talked to? 00:40:32.290 --> 00:40:33.540 ROSA MARIA BRAMBLE CABALLERO: Yeah. 00:40:33.540 --> 00:40:38.240 So, I haven’t worked directly with the survivors, 00:40:38.240 --> 00:40:41.420 if you will, workers who were actually workers 00:40:41.420 --> 00:40:43.440 of the World Trade Center — 00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:48.950 say, the Windows of the World and so forth, or maintenance. 00:40:48.950 --> 00:40:51.850 My work has been primarily with those who worked 00:40:51.850 --> 00:40:53.950 in the recovery and cleanup efforts. 00:40:55.020 --> 00:40:59.880 And some of them have received compensation 00:40:59.880 --> 00:41:01.580 under the Zadroga law. 00:41:02.150 --> 00:41:04.690 But prior to that, they were — as you were saying, 00:41:04.690 --> 00:41:06.610 when, like, these were different buildings 00:41:06.610 --> 00:41:09.590 and they were trying to get compensation initially, 00:41:09.590 --> 00:41:11.720 a lot of that money, 00:41:11.720 --> 00:41:14.800 since they had to go to private attorneys, 00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:17.810 private attorneys took 33% 00:41:18.400 --> 00:41:21.680 of whatever little they were getting, 00:41:21.680 --> 00:41:27.820 and so they were pretty much left with really minimal income. 00:41:27.820 --> 00:41:33.930 And the group that was working as cleanup workers, 00:41:33.930 --> 00:41:36.860 under the James Zadroga Act, 00:41:38.140 --> 00:41:39.980 some of them have received funds. 00:41:39.980 --> 00:41:41.990 Some of them are still waiting. 00:41:42.710 --> 00:41:45.530 And if you think about compensation, 00:41:45.530 --> 00:41:47.850 there’s one worker that I’m thinking about, 00:41:47.850 --> 00:41:52.950 in which his — after working there for so many months — 00:41:52.950 --> 00:41:56.800 and, by the way, the undocumented workers 00:41:56.800 --> 00:42:01.620 were the last group of people who worked in the zone, 00:42:01.620 --> 00:42:03.290 in ground zero. 00:42:03.290 --> 00:42:07.080 The recovery efforts ended in June 2002, 00:42:07.080 --> 00:42:10.080 and a lot of them remained there until June. 00:42:10.080 --> 00:42:12.540 So we’re talking about over six months of work. 00:42:13.350 --> 00:42:18.930 And this one particular worker, he received $52,000. 00:42:20.230 --> 00:42:22.530 And he basically cannot work anymore. 00:42:22.530 --> 00:42:24.520 First, he’s undocumented, but certainly, 00:42:24.520 --> 00:42:28.540 the GERD, the asthma, all the respiratory challenges 00:42:28.540 --> 00:42:31.490 that he has developed as a result — 00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:37.040 the compensation was $52,000, which he no longer has. 00:42:37.040 --> 00:42:38.740 He has a family to support. 00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:47.800 So, it’s not really — it doesn’t really — how should I say it? 00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:51.900 — really compensate for the efforts that a lot of them made. 00:42:53.050 --> 00:42:54.740 Some of them have not received the funds. 00:42:54.740 --> 00:42:55.980 They’re still waiting. 00:42:55.980 --> 00:42:59.650 In fact, I spoke to a worker a couple of days ago 00:42:59.650 --> 00:43:03.320 who was affected by Hurricane Ida in Queens. 00:43:03.320 --> 00:43:05.430 A lot of our workers work in Jackson Heights, 00:43:05.430 --> 00:43:08.110 in areas where, for example, Joseph Crowley, 00:43:08.110 --> 00:43:12.220 and now Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez 00:43:12.220 --> 00:43:15.450 is now the Congress representative, 00:43:15.980 --> 00:43:18.790 that a lot of them have been affected. 00:43:18.790 --> 00:43:21.820 And she was telling me that after all of these years, 00:43:21.820 --> 00:43:23.990 she still has not received anything 00:43:23.990 --> 00:43:25.690 from the compensation fund. 00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:27.550 So — 00:43:27.550 --> 00:43:28.770 AMY GOODMAN: Rosa, you — 00:43:28.770 --> 00:43:30.040 ROSA MARIA BRAMBLE CABALLERO: — there’s not really 00:43:30.040 --> 00:43:32.589 enough effort anymore. We’re not getting an effort. 00:43:33.240 --> 00:43:34.920 We don’t hear anything. 00:43:34.920 --> 00:43:37.540 So, what I do is I still have people coming in, 00:43:37.540 --> 00:43:40.740 after all these years, Juan, who have been fearful, 00:43:40.740 --> 00:43:43.270 because of their immigration status, 00:43:43.270 --> 00:43:46.630 to come forth and receive medical monitoring, 00:43:46.630 --> 00:43:50.480 to come forth and apply for a compensation 00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:54.510 that they rightly deserve and ought to receive. 00:43:54.510 --> 00:43:55.900 And there’s still quite a few — 00:43:55.900 --> 00:43:57.430 AMY GOODMAN: Rosa, if you could talk about 00:43:57.430 --> 00:44:01.720 also the push for these cleanup workers 00:44:01.720 --> 00:44:03.980 to get a path to citizenship? 00:44:03.980 --> 00:44:07.160 And also if you can talk about the children, 00:44:07.160 --> 00:44:11.510 the children of the dead undocumented immigrant 00:44:11.510 --> 00:44:13.210 cleanup workers? 00:44:14.790 --> 00:44:16.070 ROSA MARIA BRAMBLE CABALLERO: Yeah. 00:44:16.070 --> 00:44:18.820 You know, the bill, the 9/11 00:44:18.820 --> 00:44:24.110 Immigration Worker Freedom Act, was introduced in 2017, 00:44:24.680 --> 00:44:27.120 and it was based on one of the workers 00:44:27.120 --> 00:44:30.200 who was detained by ICE. 00:44:30.200 --> 00:44:36.010 And we had a few Congress representatives who came forth, 00:44:36.010 --> 00:44:42.580 and the governor, to pardon him. And so, the bill was introduced. 00:44:42.580 --> 00:44:47.480 The bill really is a pathway to begin citizenship, 00:44:48.030 --> 00:44:50.200 that those who worked in the area, 00:44:50.200 --> 00:44:53.170 who were driving vehicles, 00:44:53.170 --> 00:44:57.070 have the right to readjust their status. 00:44:57.070 --> 00:44:59.510 And that’s really what we’re talking about, because, 00:44:59.510 --> 00:45:03.970 without that, these workers do not really have a life, 00:45:03.970 --> 00:45:05.750 and neither do their children. 00:45:05.750 --> 00:45:08.970 We have workers who have died. 00:45:09.620 --> 00:45:11.660 And I’m thinking of Rafael Hernandez, 00:45:11.660 --> 00:45:14.590 who was a volunteer firefighter. 00:45:15.320 --> 00:45:21.920 And he rescued people on that day. He died in 2010. 00:45:22.470 --> 00:45:25.850 And right before, you know, we would meet, 00:45:25.850 --> 00:45:28.320 and we had empanadas, 00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:30.950 and he was telling me how ill he was feeling. 00:45:31.850 --> 00:45:38.320 And he died because of 9/11-related illnesses. 00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:42.270 His son, who is now in Mexico, is in college. 00:45:42.270 --> 00:45:45.140 He’s trying — he can’t even go to college, in fact. 00:45:45.140 --> 00:45:47.860 There is no funding. There is nothing available 00:45:47.860 --> 00:45:52.460 for the children of undocumented workers who died 00:45:52.460 --> 00:45:55.650 because they sacrificed their lives in this recovery effort. 00:45:56.740 --> 00:45:58.850 I’ve reached out to different organizations — 00:45:58.850 --> 00:46:00.360 that I’m not going to name — 00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:03.420 and because the parent was undocumented, 00:46:03.420 --> 00:46:06.000 these children are not getting the support 00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:08.130 and help that they need. 00:46:08.130 --> 00:46:11.660 I have one family who had to move out of the state 00:46:12.430 --> 00:46:15.000 because the parent, he was so ill. 00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:16.970 And he’s alive, thank god, 00:46:16.970 --> 00:46:19.410 but he can’t really work anymore. 00:46:19.410 --> 00:46:21.670 And his children are struggling. 00:46:21.670 --> 00:46:23.860 He calls me, says, "Where can I get help?" 00:46:23.860 --> 00:46:25.080 You know, we try, 00:46:25.080 --> 00:46:28.150 at least through the standing organizations 00:46:28.150 --> 00:46:30.590 that ought to be helping the children 00:46:30.590 --> 00:46:34.780 of the 9/11 recovery workers, and no one is. 00:46:34.780 --> 00:46:38.640 And I believe — we believe that with this bill, 00:46:38.640 --> 00:46:42.930 it would allow for these workers to not only help themselves, 00:46:42.930 --> 00:46:44.880 but certainly help their families, 00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:46.230 because, as immigrants, 00:46:46.230 --> 00:46:49.370 they’re here sacrificing their lives for their children, 00:46:49.370 --> 00:46:52.070 for their children to get an education and move ahead. 00:46:52.730 --> 00:46:54.470 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Rosa, just quickly, 00:46:54.470 --> 00:46:57.560 could you tell us how did you get involved? 00:46:57.560 --> 00:46:58.870 You’re a clinical social worker. 00:46:58.870 --> 00:47:01.620 You’ve been doing a lot of this out of your home. 00:47:01.620 --> 00:47:05.290 What prompted you to get involved in these efforts? 00:47:05.290 --> 00:47:06.510 ROSA MARIA BRAMBLE CABALLERO: Right, Juan. 00:47:06.510 --> 00:47:09.060 So, it’s not out of my home; it’s out of my office. 00:47:09.060 --> 00:47:15.420 In 2006, a couple of colleagues and I were contracted, actually, 00:47:15.420 --> 00:47:17.530 by a subcontractor of the city 00:47:17.530 --> 00:47:22.270 to do outreach to Latinx immigrants 00:47:22.270 --> 00:47:23.970 who worked at ground zero, 00:47:23.970 --> 00:47:26.510 because many people were not coming forth. 00:47:26.510 --> 00:47:27.720 And so we did that. 00:47:27.720 --> 00:47:31.030 These ones ended. All of the funds ended. 00:47:31.030 --> 00:47:34.890 Mental health, a roundtable to help these folks — 00:47:34.890 --> 00:47:36.590 everything ended in 2010, 00:47:37.220 --> 00:47:40.290 precisely on the 10th anniversary of 9/11. 00:47:40.290 --> 00:47:41.640 OK. 00:47:41.640 --> 00:47:44.690 And early in that year, 00:47:44.690 --> 00:47:48.070 a couple of previous clients called me and said, 00:47:48.070 --> 00:47:49.970 "You know, there’s nothing available now. 00:47:49.970 --> 00:47:51.230 We would like to meet. 00:47:51.230 --> 00:47:53.210 There’s no place for us to meet now. 00:47:53.210 --> 00:47:56.120 There’s no organizations helping us. Can you help us?" 00:47:56.120 --> 00:47:59.160 because at that point some of the compensation laws 00:47:59.160 --> 00:48:01.250 were starting to come forth, 00:48:01.250 --> 00:48:04.350 and, you know, navigating and just coming together 00:48:04.350 --> 00:48:06.350 to support each other. 00:48:06.350 --> 00:48:08.630 Many of them do not have families here, 00:48:08.630 --> 00:48:10.810 so really creating community. 00:48:10.810 --> 00:48:13.040 And, Juan, as an immigrant myself — 00:48:13.040 --> 00:48:15.800 I’m from Venezuela — I think of my mother, 00:48:15.800 --> 00:48:17.420 probably would have worked at ground zero 00:48:17.420 --> 00:48:19.850 if she would have had to. 00:48:19.850 --> 00:48:24.610 So, it’s really the commitment to my community 00:48:24.610 --> 00:48:27.510 that I felt that this is something I needed to do. 00:48:27.510 --> 00:48:28.900 And so I’ve been doing this 00:48:28.900 --> 00:48:31.460 as a volunteer for really all these years. 00:48:32.700 --> 00:48:33.960 AMY GOODMAN: Rosa, I want to thank you 00:48:33.960 --> 00:48:36.910 so much for being with us. Rosa Bramble Caballero, 00:48:36.910 --> 00:48:39.470 bilingual licensed clinical social worker 00:48:39.470 --> 00:48:44.930 who’s helped 9/11 cleanup immigrant workers for 15 years, 00:48:45.690 --> 00:48:48.450 those cleanup workers in so much need. 00:48:48.450 --> 00:48:52.200 And to see more of her story and what she’s done, 00:48:52.200 --> 00:48:54.060 you can see this amazing film 00:48:54.060 --> 00:48:57.590 that’s aired on PBS called 9/11’s 00:48:57.590 --> 00:49:00.380 Unsettled Dust and our extended discussion 00:49:00.380 --> 00:49:03.130 on this last week at democracynow.org. 00:49:04.110 --> 00:49:05.420 AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, 00:49:05.420 --> 00:49:07.910 democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. 00:49:07.910 --> 00:49:10.200 I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González. 00:49:10.200 --> 00:49:13.470 Apple has released an emergency software 00:49:13.470 --> 00:49:16.430 update to fix a security flaw in its iPhones 00:49:16.430 --> 00:49:18.340 and other products researchers found 00:49:19.300 --> 00:49:22.420 was being exploited by the Israeli-based NSO Group 00:49:22.420 --> 00:49:25.410 to infect the devices with its Pegasus spyware. 00:49:25.970 --> 00:49:31.300 Over 1.65 billion Apple products in use around the globe 00:49:31.300 --> 00:49:34.740 were vulnerable to the spyware since at least March. 00:49:35.690 --> 00:49:38.630 Apple said vulnerable devices could be hacked 00:49:38.630 --> 00:49:41.080 by receiving a malicious PDF file 00:49:41.080 --> 00:49:43.960 that users don’t even have to click, 00:49:43.960 --> 00:49:48.170 known as "zero-click" exploit. The flaw was discovered 00:49:48.170 --> 00:49:50.470 by the University of Toronto’s Citizen Lab, 00:49:50.470 --> 00:49:53.210 which found the hack in the iPhone records 00:49:53.210 --> 00:49:55.590 of a Saudi political activist. 00:49:56.130 --> 00:49:58.610 Earlier this year, a massive data leak revealed 00:49:58.610 --> 00:50:01.070 Pegasus software had targeted the phones 00:50:01.070 --> 00:50:04.290 of thousands of journalists, activists and political figures 00:50:04.290 --> 00:50:06.780 around the world for foreign governments 00:50:06.780 --> 00:50:09.070 and NSO Group clients. 00:50:09.070 --> 00:50:11.790 We’re ending today’s show with Ronald Deibert. 00:50:11.790 --> 00:50:14.160 He is the director of the Citizen Lab 00:50:14.160 --> 00:50:15.880 at the University of Toronto. 00:50:15.880 --> 00:50:18.940 He’s also author of the recent book Reset: 00:50:18.940 --> 00:50:22.410 Reclaiming the Internet for Civil Society. 00:50:23.220 --> 00:50:26.000 Ron Deibert, thanks so much for joining us at this early hour — 00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:27.240 RONALD DEIBERT: Thank you for having me, Amy. 00:50:27.240 --> 00:50:29.000 AMY GOODMAN: — as you speak to us from Vancouver. 00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:33.470 Can you talk about the significance of this flaw, 00:50:33.470 --> 00:50:35.150 how it was discovered, 00:50:35.150 --> 00:50:38.660 and what it’s doing to so many billions of — 00:50:39.850 --> 00:50:42.410 to 1.6 billion Apple products? 00:50:43.470 --> 00:50:45.700 RONALD DEIBERT: Sure. Thank you for having me, Amy. 00:50:45.700 --> 00:50:48.540 We examined the phone of a Saudi activist, 00:50:48.540 --> 00:50:51.420 who is part of a research study that we are running, 00:50:51.420 --> 00:50:54.600 in March 2021 and determined that their iPhone 00:50:54.600 --> 00:50:58.980 had been hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus spyware. 00:50:58.980 --> 00:51:02.110 NSO Group is a mercenary surveillance company 00:51:02.110 --> 00:51:04.700 based in Israel that has been the subject 00:51:04.700 --> 00:51:08.100 of numerous prior Citizen Lab reports. 00:51:08.100 --> 00:51:10.360 We have shown that their technology, 00:51:10.360 --> 00:51:12.780 which is marketed to governments to assist 00:51:12.780 --> 00:51:16.630 in law enforcement and national security investigations, 00:51:16.630 --> 00:51:18.710 is in fact widely abused. 00:51:18.710 --> 00:51:22.530 It’s used to target broad sections of civil society, 00:51:22.530 --> 00:51:24.140 including journalists, 00:51:24.140 --> 00:51:27.300 human rights defenders, lawyers and others. 00:51:27.870 --> 00:51:32.520 This was yet another case of an abuse of this type of spyware. 00:51:33.210 --> 00:51:36.870 This particular exploit that we discovered 00:51:36.870 --> 00:51:40.840 on the Saudi activist’s phone was extremely sophisticated. 00:51:40.840 --> 00:51:44.580 It is what’s known as a zero-click zero day. 00:51:44.580 --> 00:51:48.240 And by that, I mean that the surveillance technology 00:51:48.240 --> 00:51:51.050 could be implanted on a target’s device 00:51:51.050 --> 00:51:55.570 without any visible interaction on the part of the user, 00:51:55.570 --> 00:51:58.070 no evidence that this is happening. 00:51:58.070 --> 00:52:03.390 It exploits a flaw in Apple’s iMessage application, 00:52:03.390 --> 00:52:06.850 that even at the time Apple did not know about. 00:52:06.850 --> 00:52:09.740 So this means that any government client 00:52:09.740 --> 00:52:15.060 using NSO Group’s spyware could silently take over 00:52:15.060 --> 00:52:16.990 any Apple device in the world. 00:52:16.990 --> 00:52:20.150 And as you say, there are 1.65 billion 00:52:20.150 --> 00:52:21.990 Apple users around the world. 00:52:21.990 --> 00:52:28.750 And this affected all Apple iOS, macOS, watchOS devices. 00:52:29.650 --> 00:52:33.200 We notified Apple of the discovery, 00:52:33.200 --> 00:52:36.330 and they moved very quickly, within six days, 00:52:36.330 --> 00:52:39.970 to push out this emergency software update, 00:52:39.970 --> 00:52:41.990 which takes care of the problem. 00:52:41.990 --> 00:52:43.790 But we estimate that this has been active 00:52:43.790 --> 00:52:46.650 since about February 2021. 00:52:47.230 --> 00:52:51.350 So, what this case illustrates is, again, this widespread abuse 00:52:52.030 --> 00:52:56.020 that we have associated with NSO Group 00:52:56.020 --> 00:52:58.760 and other companies like it, their technology. 00:53:00.750 --> 00:53:02.270 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Ronald Deibert, 00:53:02.270 --> 00:53:04.130 could you talk about — 00:53:04.130 --> 00:53:08.110 a little bit more about NSO Group’s track record 00:53:08.110 --> 00:53:14.110 and in other issues of cyber espionage? 00:53:14.670 --> 00:53:15.960 RONALD DEIBERT: Sure. 00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:20.140 So, we and others, our partners at Amnesty International, 00:53:20.140 --> 00:53:22.250 other research groups, have been tracking, 00:53:22.760 --> 00:53:25.350 broadly speaking, the commercial spyware market 00:53:25.350 --> 00:53:27.050 for many years now. 00:53:27.050 --> 00:53:29.750 And NSO Group first came on our radar, 00:53:29.750 --> 00:53:32.410 you will recall, back in 2016, 00:53:32.410 --> 00:53:36.470 when we discovered it was being used by the United Arab Emirates 00:53:36.470 --> 00:53:39.870 to target a human rights defender named Ahmed Mansoor. 00:53:40.690 --> 00:53:45.600 Ever since then, we and others have documented extensive abuses 00:53:45.600 --> 00:53:47.400 of this company’s technology. 00:53:48.150 --> 00:53:49.950 So, not surprisingly, 00:53:49.950 --> 00:53:54.880 when you have no regulation over a marketplace like this, 00:53:54.880 --> 00:53:57.820 and a company really is doing no due diligence — 00:53:57.820 --> 00:53:59.980 they’re just simply in it for the profit — 00:54:00.680 --> 00:54:03.380 you will have extensive abuse, 00:54:03.380 --> 00:54:06.190 because they’re selling to government clients 00:54:06.190 --> 00:54:09.620 that lack oversight over their security agencies, 00:54:09.620 --> 00:54:13.470 that lack transparency, public accountability. 00:54:13.470 --> 00:54:16.570 Most of them are kleptocrats or dictators, 00:54:16.570 --> 00:54:18.490 countries like Saudi Arabia, 00:54:18.490 --> 00:54:22.280 which we know has a terrible human rights track record. 00:54:22.280 --> 00:54:26.010 They will take this technology and go after their adversaries, 00:54:26.010 --> 00:54:27.280 whoever they may be. 00:54:27.280 --> 00:54:30.120 That could include you or Amy, in fact. 00:54:30.120 --> 00:54:33.810 We have seen extensive targeting of journalists 00:54:33.810 --> 00:54:35.640 using NSO’s technology. 00:54:36.330 --> 00:54:39.310 Really, it’s not surprising that we are able to do this, 00:54:39.310 --> 00:54:42.560 although we have an extremely talented technical team 00:54:42.560 --> 00:54:45.660 at the Citizen Lab that does this investigation. 00:54:46.560 --> 00:54:49.880 When this type of technology is sold to government clients 00:54:49.880 --> 00:54:52.280 and is abused in this way, obviously, 00:54:52.280 --> 00:54:57.390 watchdog organizations like this are likely going to spot it. 00:54:57.950 --> 00:55:04.360 So, this underlines the urgency of this unregulated marketplace. 00:55:04.360 --> 00:55:08.080 I think now it’s become more than obvious 00:55:08.080 --> 00:55:13.040 that there are extensive damages associated with this industry 00:55:13.040 --> 00:55:15.180 that need to be cleaned up very quickly. 00:55:15.180 --> 00:55:17.720 And the only way to do that, frankly, 00:55:17.720 --> 00:55:20.360 is by some kind of international regulation. 00:55:21.310 --> 00:55:22.790 AMY GOODMAN: And you mentioned UAE. 00:55:22.790 --> 00:55:26.010 We had a headline today about the Justice Department 00:55:26.010 --> 00:55:28.450 charging three former U.S. intelligence 00:55:28.450 --> 00:55:29.650 and military officials — 00:55:29.650 --> 00:55:30.890 RONALD DEIBERT: Yes. 00:55:30.890 --> 00:55:32.170 AMY GOODMAN: — after they admitted to helping 00:55:32.170 --> 00:55:34.620 the United Arab Emirates build a hacking program. 00:55:35.270 --> 00:55:37.620 Talk about the dissidents that are targeted in this 00:55:37.620 --> 00:55:39.720 and how this fits into this other story. 00:55:40.770 --> 00:55:41.970 RONALD DEIBERT: Well, the individuals 00:55:41.970 --> 00:55:45.690 that you mentioned, who were former NSA engineers 00:55:45.690 --> 00:55:48.200 working for this startup in the UAE, 00:55:48.200 --> 00:55:50.490 actually targeted us at the Citizen Lab, 00:55:50.490 --> 00:55:53.060 we discovered, as part of the whistleblower leak 00:55:53.060 --> 00:55:54.510 associated with that. 00:55:54.510 --> 00:55:56.520 So, basically, what’s happening here is, 00:55:56.520 --> 00:55:58.710 you know, all of us carry with us, 00:55:58.710 --> 00:56:02.490 24 hours a day, these devices in our pockets. 00:56:02.490 --> 00:56:04.690 They’re engineered very well, for the most part, 00:56:04.690 --> 00:56:08.440 but they contain various software flaws, inevitably. 00:56:08.440 --> 00:56:11.550 That’s the nature of the ecosystem that we live in. 00:56:11.550 --> 00:56:14.380 And governments have a very large 00:56:14.380 --> 00:56:16.910 appetite to hack into those devices, 00:56:16.910 --> 00:56:21.720 because they’re so rich with details about anyone’s lives. 00:56:21.720 --> 00:56:25.700 Now, this means that governments that, you know, 00:56:25.700 --> 00:56:28.820 don’t follow the rule of law or respect human rights, 00:56:29.420 --> 00:56:31.740 if they have these in their arsenal, 00:56:31.740 --> 00:56:33.650 they’re going to go after anyone 00:56:33.650 --> 00:56:36.500 they consider to be a regime critic. 00:56:37.030 --> 00:56:38.420 And that’s what’s happening right now. 00:56:38.420 --> 00:56:42.810 So that means journalists, lawyers, activists, 00:56:42.810 --> 00:56:44.790 people who have fled their countries 00:56:44.790 --> 00:56:46.620 out of fear of the regime, 00:56:46.620 --> 00:56:50.050 managed to move safely to a country like Canada, 00:56:50.050 --> 00:56:52.880 they are not immune from this new type 00:56:52.880 --> 00:56:55.080 of transnational repression. 00:56:55.080 --> 00:56:57.960 So, what companies like NSO Group are offering up 00:56:57.960 --> 00:57:01.700 really is a kind of despotism as a service. 00:57:04.250 --> 00:57:05.500 JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And I wanted to ask you — 00:57:05.500 --> 00:57:06.890 we have less than a minute left, 00:57:06.890 --> 00:57:12.860 but what does it say about the world that we’re living in today 00:57:12.860 --> 00:57:17.160 that we need groups like yours, Citizen Lab, 00:57:17.160 --> 00:57:20.800 and the independent actions of some companies, like Apple, 00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:24.240 to actually try to rein in what is occurring, 00:57:24.240 --> 00:57:26.600 rather than the actual governments and agencies 00:57:26.600 --> 00:57:28.600 that are supposed to protect the public? 00:57:29.160 --> 00:57:31.250 RONALD DEIBERT: Well, that’s an excellent question, Juan. 00:57:31.250 --> 00:57:34.120 And, unfortunately, it’s a bit of a dark answer. 00:57:34.120 --> 00:57:37.810 As you know, the world is sliding into despotism 00:57:37.810 --> 00:57:39.830 and authoritarianism, 00:57:39.830 --> 00:57:42.360 even within liberal democratic countries. 00:57:42.360 --> 00:57:45.510 And we need to look no further than within the United States 00:57:45.510 --> 00:57:48.140 and the troubling events of recent times. 00:57:48.650 --> 00:57:51.810 All governments are interested in his technology. 00:57:52.770 --> 00:57:56.860 Some of them may have legitimate needs for this type of thing, 00:57:56.860 --> 00:57:58.960 because they’re doing their investigations. 00:57:58.960 --> 00:58:00.300 But, as we know, 00:58:00.300 --> 00:58:03.170 there is so much corruption around the world, 00:58:03.170 --> 00:58:05.980 so many governments that lack public accountability 00:58:05.980 --> 00:58:09.780 and transparency, so many intelligence agencies 00:58:09.780 --> 00:58:14.320 that are doing horrible things, largely out of control. 00:58:14.320 --> 00:58:19.480 This simply fuels that fire. This is, in my opinion, 00:58:19.480 --> 00:58:23.630 the most important crisis around global civil society right now. 00:58:23.630 --> 00:58:25.760 We can’t solve all the other problems 00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:28.500 if people are being spied on willy-nilly like this. 00:58:29.580 --> 00:58:31.060 AMY GOODMAN: We want to thank you so much, 00:58:31.060 --> 00:58:33.690 Ronald Deibert, director of the Citizen Lab 00:58:33.690 --> 00:58:35.820 at the University of Toronto and author of Reset: 00:58:35.820 --> 00:58:38.650 Reclaiming the Internet for Civil Society. 00:58:39.280 --> 00:58:41.040 We’re going to do Part 2 of the conversation, 00:58:41.040 --> 00:58:43.140 and we’re going to post it online at democracynow.org. 00:58:43.140 --> 00:58:44.990 How do you protect yourself? 00:58:45.740 --> 00:58:47.920 And a very happy birthday to Sam Alcoff! 00:58:47.920 --> 00:58:49.380 That does it for our show. Democracy Now! 00:58:49.380 --> 00:58:51.530 produced with Renée Feltz, Mike Burke, Deena Guzder, 00:58:51.530 --> 00:58:54.080 Messiah Rhodes, Nermeen Shaikh, María Taracena, Tami Woronoff, 00:58:54.080 --> 00:58:56.040 Charina Nadura, Sam Alcoff, Tey-Marie Astudillo, 00:58:56.040 --> 00:58:58.440 John Hamilton, Robby Karran, Hany Massoud, Adriano Contreras. 00:58:58.440 --> 00:58:59.740 Special thanks to Julie Crosby. 00:58:59.740 --> 00:59:01.539 I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González.