AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: We look now at the escalating crackdown on lawful immigration pathways, as the Trump administration has announced it’s pausing green card and U.S. citizenship processing for immigrants from 19 non-European countries that were already subject to a travel ban put in place earlier this year.

This comes as federal immigration agents have reportedly begun operations targeting the Somali community in the Minneapolis-St. Paul region. The Trump administration’s announcement has also paused all asylum decisions for immigrants currently in the U.S., after an Afghan national was charged with murdering a National Guard member and critically injuring another in Washington, D.C., last week. He’s pleaded not guilty.

AMY GOODMAN: For more, we’re joined by Murad Awawdeh, president and CEO of the New York Immigration Coalition, part of Mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani’s Committee on Immigrant Justice. In a moment, we’re going to ask you about what’s happened here in New York with attempted ICE raids thwarted by the community. But first, let’s talk about exactly what President Trump is talking about when he says he’s going to stop immigration from the, quote, “Third World,” and what real-life effects is this having.

MURAD AWAWDEH: So, Donald Trump has made several horrendous allegations against immigrant communities, especially in the wake of the unfortunate and devastating incident in D.C., where he is saying now that they are going to be pausing all asylum applications and reviewing those who had been approved under the previous administration, as well.

The problem with that is that asylum and refugee status are some of the most — the hardest statuses to attain. The amount of vetting that you have to go through is insane in itself, but also it’s a very diligent process. So, for them to say that they’re pausing all asylum claims, that they’re going to be reviewing all refugees who have come into this country, and now saying that they’re going to pause and, in essence, ban all Black, Brown and anyone who isn’t white from coming into the United States, just is another slap in the face of the communities that continue to make this country move forward, the economic engine, the heartbeat of this nation.

So, what we’re going to see is millions of families who have been waiting, following the process, following the law to the letter of it, who are waiting for their families to be reunited with them here, pretty much having to be left in limbo, not knowing if they’re ever going to get connected with each other again.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And do you know, like, on what grounds? I mean, apart from just a presidential whim. Has he, first of all, chosen those 19 countries? And, you know, has anything like this ever happened here before, like an outright suspension of consideration of these applications?

MURAD AWAWDEH: There has been. Under Trump 1.0 —

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Yes, of course.

MURAD AWAWDEH: — he did this, and almost immediately after coming into office. It was sued several times. And, in essence, what happened was the ban was in part struck down, but then also upheld by the Supreme Court, because saying that the executive had the power to do so.

This is different, though. They’re doing this along a different route, where they’re trying to say this is going to be a temporary measure to ensure that they are, quote-unquote, “fully vetting” individuals who are coming into this nation.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And people are already reporting that they’ve appeared for green card interviews and U.S. citizenship ceremonies, and they’ve been turned away without explanation. They didn’t even know that their appointments were canceled. What kind of recourse do people have now? I mean, this is an extraordinary move.

MURAD AWAWDEH: This is really — imagine going through a process that can take up to 10, 15, 20 years, and then, at the very end, when you are about to become a naturalized U.S. citizen, who has contributed to this nation, who has continued to build your family here, built your life here for decades, and then, at the last second, being told, “Get out of the line. You’re not allowed to get naturalized today,” or even families who have waited forever to actually get their appointment to have their family come in for a green card interview, and either being rejected and saying your appointment has been canceled or that the person is getting detained and being put through deportation proceedings, which is also happening.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And even to get a green card, as indeed someone who’s gone through the process, there is an extraordinary amount of vetting that takes place and an extraordinary amount of paperwork. And after that vetting, it takes five years to get citizenship. Like, what more vetting is even possible to do?

MURAD AWAWDEH: It’s just, you know, lunacy at this point of the excuses that they keep coming up with, when we know what they’re trying to do. This has never been about vetting. This has never been about security and safety. It’s about cruelty, and that’s their point. And they’ll continue to lean in on their cruelty, and we have to continue to fight back.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to just name those countries, 19 countries, that they are stopping processing for, and they’re already talking about adding a number of other countries to this: Afghanistan, Burma, Chad, Republic of the Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Haiti, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Burundi, Cuba, Laos, Sierra Leone, Togo, Turkmenistan and Venezuela.

MURAD AWAWDEH: Yeah, these are similar countries that he tried, initially, putting the full ban, the partial ban, and then more restrictions on, when he first came into office and saying that he was going to do the same that he did the last time around. So, this is sort of using the same trick out of the same toolbox of trying to just harm more communities across this country.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And if there were any doubt about what the actual intention of the Trump administration appears to be, he’s actually said specifically that the U.S. should welcome more people from countries like Norway, Denmark and Switzerland, in addition to, of course, his special fondness for Afrikaners in South Africa, from South Africa.

MURAD AWAWDEH: Well, we don’t have to guess why he’s saying this. He wants to make — and his entire anti-immigrant platform, his war on immigrants and his mass deportation agenda is all to lead to making America white again. And that is what it comes down to.

AMY GOODMAN: So, let’s talk about the resistance. Here in New York on Saturday, police arrested a number of protesters after people blocked the exit of a parking garage in Lower Manhattan where federal agents were staging before an immigration raid targeting street vendors from West Africa, similar to a raid in October on Canal Street. This weekend, Time magazine ran a headline that read “How 200 New Yorkers Foiled an ICE Raid Before It Even Began.” You got there soon after this whole thing was happening, Murad. Your staff was there. Can you talk about what took place? And also, I mean, New York City is a sanctuary city. Police did make arrests, about a dozen people. Are they cooperating with the ICE agents?

MURAD AWAWDEH: So, last Saturday, you had over several dozen ICE agents who had been congregating in this garage facility. And I think people don’t realize how big and small New York City is. We are a city of 9 million people. We are across 300 square miles. And, you know, it is very hard not to be noticed, especially when you are about to do something that people in the city do not welcome. Several people witnessed this. It became several dozens after they put out the call, and then several hundred showed up to push back against them. And, in essence, these New Yorkers thwarted this and foiled this plot that they had of doing this mass theatrics on Canal Street yet again.

The problem with that is that when the protesters did arrive, what you ended up seeing was NYPD coming in to provide cover for ICE. And the way in which NYPD is reporting it is that they were doing crowd control and helping get them, quote-unquote, “out of the parking lot” so they can be on their way. There’s a very slippery slope here, where they’re operating in a gray area, where they did collude with ICE, even if it was for the crowd control in that moment.

But what does that mean for the future? What does that mean when NYPD shows up to an ICE raid, which has been happening across the city since the inception of this administration for the past 11 months? Just this morning in Jackson Heights, there was a massive raid. So, what does it mean when you’re having these instances where New Yorkers are going to stand up and nonviolently defend their community?