AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González.

Yes, today marks the 50th anniversary of the death of the great actor, singer, athlete, scholar, Paul Robeson. At one point he was world famous. You probably recognize his voice from this 1936 film, Show Boat.

PAUL ROBESON: [singing] There’s an old man called the Mississippi
That’s the old man that I’d like to be
What does he care if the world’s got troubles?
What does he care if the land ain’t free?

Ol’ man river
That ol’ man river
He must know something
But don’t say nothing
He just keeps rollin’

AMY GOODMAN: Paul Robeson singing “Ol’ Man River” and performing in Show Boat.

Yes, Paul Robeson was the son of an escaped slave. He was attacked, blacklisted and hounded by the government for his political beliefs. For years, Paul Robeson was tracked by the FBI, as well as the CIA, the Department of State, numerous other government agencies. Together, they compiled tens of thousands of documents on him, which they used to bring him before McCarthy’s HUAC — that’s the House Un-American Activities Committee. In 1949, Robeson was effectively blacklisted. In 1950, the government revoked his passport. For eight years, he was barred from travel, a prisoner in his own country.

Now, Jackie Robinson, the Brooklyn Dodgers star who had integrated the all-white major baseball leagues, was hailed as a national hero in 1949 for testifying against Robeson before HUAC.

JACKIE ROBINSON: I’ve been asked to express my views on Paul Robeson’s statement in Paris.

ON-SCREEN TEXT: One man is now a legend. The other was erased from history.

AMY GOODMAN: Today, we look at the fascinating new book, out this week, Kings and Pawns: Jackie Robinson and Paul Robeson in America. We’re joined now by the book’s author, Howard Bryant, currently the sports correspondent for Weekend Edition at National Public Radio, also the author of over 15 other books.

Howard, welcome to Democracy Now! What an amazing book, the story that you tell. Tell us the story of Paul Robeson and Jackie Robinson, how you decided to focus on both, and what they tell us about America.

HOWARD BRYANT: Yeah. Well, thank you for having me on the show.

It really does feel like what is past is prologue. So much of working on this book of Paul Robeson, who, of course, was a victim in the center of a lot of the McCarthyist tactics — that we see today — facing off against Jackie Robinson, who really did feel compelled by his employer, by Branch Rickey, the president of the Brooklyn Dodgers, to testify against Robeson to show that African Americans were loyal to the United States, after Paul Robeson had given a speech in Paris in 1949. These two giants, who had never met one another, were really placed in opposition to one — you know, to each other in front of the most notorious government body that this country has ever produced. And this book is really the story of these two giants on opposite — on opposite sides of the political spectrum in 1949, but actually had much, much, much more in common than we would have thought.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And could you talk about why Branch Rickey tried to insist that Robinson testify, especially given the fact that, for instance, the Communist Party had played a major role in attempting to integrate baseball in the 1940s?

HOWARD BRYANT: That’s right. Well, I think that’s exactly why. I think once when — the amazing thing, one of the things I really enjoyed about working on this book, was how Branch Rickey’s version of the integration story has essentially been treated as the only version, and so much of his motivation for signing Jackie Robinson, at least the public version, had been that Rickey had this amazing moral compass, when actually the biggest reason that he felt compelled — he did have a moral compass here. He did really go up against his fellow owners, who saw signing Robinson as a huge betrayal of them. They wanted to keep the game all white. But one of the biggest reasons was the fact that Branch Rickey, in Brooklyn, huge labor area, really progressive, very strong left, left-wing, progressive politics — they were pressuring the Dodgers, more than any other team in baseball, to be the ones to integrate. And Rickey really had no — I wouldn’t say he had no choice, but he absolutely was under pressure. It wasn’t simply just his moral compass. It was the fact that the pressure from political groups from the progressive side really, really pushed to make this happen. That’s how movements change.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And in terms of the — what Robinson actually said in Congress, and did he have second thoughts later in life about his role?

HOWARD BRYANT: Yeah, I think one of the hardest things for Jackie Robinson was the fact that he never wanted to testify in the first place. He felt obligated to Branch Rickey. And later on, after he had testified against Paul Robeson and after the violence that had come after his testimony — two very bloody riots in Peekskill, New York, followed Jackie’s testimony, and his legacy never really survived this. It was something he didn’t really want to do, but he felt a loyalty to Branch Rickey. He felt a loyalty to say something on behalf of Black Americans. And his widow, Rachel Robinson, who, by the way, is still alive at 103 today, believed that there was nothing that Jackie would have wanted to take back more — between that and his support of Richard Nixon in 1960, that these were the two pieces of advice that Rachel Robinson felt that did not help Jackie and haven’t helped his legacy.

AMY GOODMAN: Howard, we have students come in to watch the show every week. And a group of eighth graders came in, and I said, “How many of you have heard” — I said you were going to be on the show — “have heard of Jackie Robinson?” Almost everyone raised their hand. I said, “How many of you have heard of Paul Robeson?” And almost no one raised their hand. So I think it’s really important for you to give us the history of Paul Robeson. He was perhaps the most famous Black American in the world at a certain point. And talk about what it meant for him to have been so gone after by the CIA, the FBI, and having his passport revoked because he was a world-famous actor and singer.

HOWARD BRYANT: Yeah, I think it’s a great example of what is — once again, what is past is prologue, and what you feel is impossible is very possible. I think one of the things that I wanted to do with this book was to really make it clear how similar the times were between the 1940s and the Paul Robeson-McCarthy era and what is happening today, in terms of the assault on education and higher education, the assault on civil liberties, the forcing of loyalty oaths, all of this playbook, the closing of the borders. So much of what is taking place — that took place then is taking place now.

And when you look at somebody like Paul Robeson, who was a giant, who was one of the most accomplished Americans this country has ever produced, he is not just — when you talk about Jackie Robinson integrating the major leagues in 1947, well, Paul Robeson integrated Broadway in 1943. Paul Robeson was a lawyer, a Columbia-educated lawyer. He played in the National Football League. He was one of the greatest college football players of all time as an All-American in 1917 and 1918. This is a giant of a man.

And so, to see how powerful those political forces are that silenced him and really did everything it could to erase him, so these young kids today don’t know who he is, tells you about the importance of maintaining stories. And as the great Pulitzer Prize winner David Maraniss has always said, “History writes people out of the story, and it’s our job to write them back in.” And 50 years after Paul Robeson’s death, it’s time for a reappraisal of one of the great Americans.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And in 1949, Life magazine ran a spread of people they considered dangerous and un-American. The list included figures like Langston Hughes and Albert Einstein. Can you talk about the parallels you see with the media in 2026 and the complacency and even cooperation with the Trump administration?

HOWARD BRYANT: Well, complacency, cooperation, and that was one of the things that was so compelling about working on this, because the history is not some old relic. It’s not really dusty. Every time I was working on a chapter, I said, “This feels like today, and this sounds like today, and this sounds like today.” And when you look at the complacency that we have today, so many people look back at that time and say, “How did we allow that to happen?” But the same thing is happening right now. You see the — especially in media and especially with the public, I think people become numb to it. And if it’s not —

AMY GOODMAN: Howard, we’re going to have to leave it there.

HOWARD BRYANT: — happening to them specifically —

AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to have to leave it there, but I thank you so much.

HOWARD BRYANT: Yeah, all good.

AMY GOODMAN: People have to pick up your book and read the rest. It is fantastic. It’s called Kings and Pawns: Jackie Robinson and Paul Robeson in America. That does it for our show. Happy early birthday to Charina Nadura! I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González.