AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman.

We’re also joined, in Ramallah, in the occupied West Bank, by Dr. Mustafa Barghouti, Palestinian physician, activist, politician, who serves as general secretary of the Palestinian National Initiative. The initiative said Palestinian recognition, quote, “must immediately be accompanied by the imposition of sanctions on Israel to stop the war of extermination, ethnic cleansing and starvation in the Gaza Strip.”

Your new essay, Mustafa, in today’s New York Times is headlined “Palestinians Need More Than the Gesture of Statehood.” If you can please respond first to Britain, Canada, Australia, Portugal recognizing a Palestinian state — I think on the Eiffel Tower now are the flags of Palestine and France — and what more you want to see? Oh, Palestine and Israeli flags are on the Eiffel Tower.

DR. MUSTAFA BARGHOUTI: Well, first of all, I want to say that we welcome, of course, the recognition, because it means that there is affirmation of the right of the Palestinian people to have self-determination. These recognitions negate completely the Israeli measures to kill the possibility of a Palestinian state, and negate the Israeli discriminatory laws, like the state-nation law, which says that the right of self-determination on the historic Palestine is restricted to Israeli Jewish people. It also denies and negates the laws that Israel has passed to prevent the establishment of an independent Palestinian state. That is all good. It’s a bit late — maybe not a bit late, but actually too late. But it’s not enough, either.

We think we are now at a stage where nothing will stop Israel, nothing will deter Israel, from continuing its genocidal war in Gaza and its bombardment of the Palestinian people there and its collective punishment, including starvation, and its acts of ethnic cleansing, especially now in Gaza City, and also the terrorist settlers’ attacks in the West Bank. Nothing will deter all of that, except sanctions on Israel immediately.

By the way, while we talk, I just received information that the Israeli planes bombarded the main Palestinian Medical Relief Society center in the city of Gaza, destroyed it with six — with three rockets, and destroyed it completely, injuring some of the people who are working there, and destroying one of the most important, vital health centers in the city of Gaza.

So, we need sanctions. We need measures. I think the previous speaker spoke about that very clearly. And we need Israel to be restrained by these measures.

One last point, which is that it is clear, as you can see now with the 10 more countries recognizing Palestine, which means 152 countries already recognize Palestine, more than 80% of the General Assembly members of the United Nations — much more than the countries that do not recognize Israel, by the way — that puts Israel and the United States of America in very clear status of isolation, because of the policies that Israel is following and because of the unconditional support that Trump’s administration is providing to it, even when it is committing such horrible war crimes.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you comment on Basel Adra, the director of the Oscar-winning film No Other Land, his home again raided?

DR. MUSTAFA BARGHOUTI: Of course, that is totally unacceptable. And that is one other form of oppression of freedom of expression and oppression of people’s ability to express the case of Palestine. And in my opinion, what we are subjected to is much worse even than what people in South Africa have been subjected to during the apartheid system. But as I said before on your program, Amy, and I thank you for hosting me today — as I said before, the story of Palestine is becoming so similar to what happened in South Africa. People change, and then they change the parliaments in their countries, and then the parliaments change their governments.

Everything you see in terms of recognition today by France, Britain, Australia, Canada and others is happening only because of the steadfastness and resilience and resistance of the Palestinian people, because of the heroism of ordinary Palestinian citizens who refuse to leave their country and who risked everything to stay in Palestine. And it’s also because of the heroism of so many people in these countries, the people of France, the people of Britain, the people of Canada, the people of Australia, and the people of the United States, by the way, who are standing up against injustice and standing up in support of Palestine.

AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Barghouti, I wanted to get your response, in this final minute, to Israel’s far-right minister Bezalel Smotrich calling the Gaza Strip a “real estate bonanza,” saying “a business plan is on President Trump’s table.” He’s added, “We’ve done the demolition phase. Now we need to build.” And, of course, this reinforces what President Trump has said on — he says, “The U.S. will take over the Gaza Strip, and we will do a job with it, too. We’ll own it.” We have 30 seconds on what, especially, responsibility the U.S. has.

DR. MUSTAFA BARGHOUTI: What you say is a reflection of things that can only be said by fascists and by fascism. What the United States must do is to stop this terrible, horrible fascist tendency. Listen to the American people. The American people are changing, and they would not let this administration continue what they are doing.

AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Mustafa Barghouti, I want to thank you so much for being with us, Palestinian physician, activist, politician, serves as general secretary of the Palestinian National Initiative, speaking to us from occupied Ramallah.

A very happy birthday to Jackie Sam! I am Amy Goodman. This is Democracy Now!