AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.

We’re joined now for Part 2 of our conversation with Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur on the occupied Palestinian territory, her new landmark report titled “From economy of occupation to economy of genocide.” The Trump administration announced Wednesday it’s imposing sanctions on her, alleging she’s targeting Americans and Israelis for prosecution by the International Criminal Court. She’s joining us now from Slovenia’s capital Ljubljana, where she just held a news conference. Thank you so much for staying with us. Nermeen?

NERMEEN SHAIKH: So, Francesca, if you could talk about the companies that you name — there are dozens of them; of course, you can’t list all of them — who you say in the report are profiting from Israel’s war on Gaza or the expansion of illegal settlements in the West Bank? How did you compile this list? What kind of research was involved? And also explain — people are raising questions. You know, everybody understands why, you know, defense arms manufacturer Lockheed Martin is on the list, but it might be less clear why, for example, the Korean car maker Hyundai or the French bank BNP Paribas — why are they on the list? Just explain the range of companies you’re looking at and the extent to which they have, and in what ways, enabled what Israel is doing in Gaza.

FRANCESCA ALBANESE: Absolutely, Nermeen. First of all, I have to say that this situation, where economic actors, from armed manufacturers to even universities, banks, pension funds, are part of a settler-colonial endeavor of taking land and resources from people to the benefit of others, is not new. This is 500 years of colonialism and settler colonialism, which has also had genocide. So, what is shocking is that it’s happening, it has been happening, under our nose, under our eyes, for so many, so many years, as the human rights system was developing.

And companies have always escaped accountability. The only two defining moments in history when there was some accountability was after the Holocaust, with the post-Holocaust industrialist trials, where businesses from various sectors were brought to justice, and after apartheid South Africa, where the beginning of the regulation of business sectors really advanced and produced the U.N. Guiding Principles — after a few years — on Business and Human Rights.

Having said that, so, Israel has used and has relied on the private sector to displace and replace the Palestinians. How? Because it wouldn’t have been able without weapons and without machinery to level the ground, to demolish homes, to uproot trees, to get control of the Palestinians, including by segregating them behind walls, fences, surveilling them through CCTV cameras, the automated apartheid that Amnesty International has already denounced years ago, the collection of biometric and other data, etc., etc. This is the displacement, after which comes the replacement, companies providing tools and profiting from the providing tools to Israel to build the colonies, water infrastructure, electricity grids, rails, roads, and then producing goods and services, selling them the dates, the Ahava products or the wine from the settlements, while extracting resources from the quarries, the water, the electricity, and enclosing the Palestinians and conditioning them upon dependency, dependency at such a high cost, for their life and for their development on the — dependency on the Israeli economy. And on top of it, there is the displacement, the replacement, which wouldn’t be able without a web of actors who are the enablers — the banks, the pension funds, etc., etc. — and also those normalizing the occupation, like, with a click, like the tourism industry, Booking and Air — Booking.com and Airbnb.

Now, this structural — I could have written this report decades ago. However, what has happened is, in the last — in the last one year and a half, the weapons that Israel was using to segregate, to control, to displace, to repress the Palestinians have been enhanced, have been modified. Companies have continued to provide those weapons, that Israel has even customized them to make them, A, more lethal and, B, less costly in terms of resources and human life for those using them. Think of the unmanned technology, where you have unmanned planes and drones killing civilians, for example. Think of the — you say about Hyundai and Volvo and Caterpillar. The machinery that has been used to destroy, to demolish homes in the West Bank has been turned to help the Israeli army pulverize Gaza. It’s not that Gaza has been leveled just through bombs. There have been bulldozers transforming the rubbles into dust that can — could be cemented, and let’s move on the next stage of settler colonialism.

And think of Volvo. Volvo is the company which has kept providing buses connecting the settlements. And look at the logic of the companies, because they say, “But we are just selling. We don’t know about the use that Israel makes,” like the Norwegian speaker before. You don’t need to. Israel is maintaining an unlawful occupation. Had the companies done the due diligence that they are speaking about years ago, they would have pulled out of the occupation, because they were put on notice by human rights organizations, Israeli, Palestinians, international, by the BDS, Who Profits and the others, of the risks that they were incurring, and they were just not registering that.

And this is why today I’m telling to the companies, under international law, your obligation in terms of due diligence, which, in this case, should be higher, due diligence, is not to be directly linked, not to contribute to, not to cause human rights impact. So, guys, it’s a very low threshold. Here, we are not talking of impact. We are talking of violation of self-determination, annexation and permanent occupation, that if you are engaged with, you are part of, one way or another. You are directly linked to. And then you must be held accountable, to your consumers, first and foremost, and possibly either judges.

But then there are, like, Elbit, IAI and Leonardo. Leonardo is Italian. I mean, they have been, with intent, knowledge and purpose, including like companies like Palantir, providing services, technologies and tools that have been used to enhance the killing machinery of and the killing capacity of Israel’s machinery.

And without the pension — sorry, without the banks and other financial institutions, like BlackRock and Vanguard, Israel would have never been able to sustain its economy, which went from positive to deficit soon — I mean, between November and February, March 2024. And it’s been the banks giving access to credit, helping sell Israeli bonds, and so injecting capital, so that Israel could continue to invest in its economy. And now why $70 billion have been accrued by the Israeli stock exchange in the last month? Because after the war between Israel and Iran, supported by the United States, the need to rearm, and it’s clear among European countries, among Western countries. I mean, NATO is just calling member states to provide an extra 5% of their budget. And this is what is enriching the companies, because Israel eventually is selling these weapons, it’s selling this technology.

And nothing is neutral, because when you think that the European — European universities, for example, or American universities have cracked down so harshly the protests of the students. Why? Because they were pointing the fingers on the nerve and demonstrating that if these universities were to lose the profits or the endowment they were having because of the partnership with Israeli universities or with the EU Horizon program or with the defense industry, they will probably lose a lot and go bankrupt.

AMY GOODMAN: I know you have to leave. What do the sanctions mean? I mean, you’re speaking out everywhere. Is the United Nations supporting you, expressing support for you as their special rapporteur on the occupied Palestine territory? And can you come into the United States?

FRANCESCA ALBANESE: I don’t know. I don’t know. We will see. I’m still — Amy, I’m still trying to make sense of it. But what I know, what I know, and this is also the story of my land, coming from south of Italy. Look, these Mafia-style techniques work only if we, the people, are scared and silent. If we are not scared and we are not silent and we stand united, we will be able to move the system from this horrible lawlessness and nonsense to a place of accountability. And this is what I want to stand for today.

AMY GOODMAN: Francesca Albanese, we want to thank you so much for being with us, U.N. special rapporteur on the occupied Palestinian territory. We will link to your report, “From economy of occupation to economy of genocide.” The Trump administration announcing this week it’s imposing sanctions on Albanese, alleging she’s targeting Americans and Israelis for prosecution by the International Criminal Court. Among those who have also been sanctioned are the International Criminal Court chief prosecutor Karim Khan in the last months. Francesca Albanese was joining us from Slovenia. To see Part 1 of our conversation, go to democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.