Back in the United States, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos struggled Sunday to explain why schools in her home state of Michigan are faring poorly under the policies she championed. DeVos was speaking with Lesley Stahl on CBS’s “60 Minutes.”

Lesley Stahl: “Have the public schools in Michigan gotten better?”

Education Secretary Betsy DeVos: “I don’t know. Overall, I—I can’t say overall that they have all gotten better.”

Lesley Stahl: “The whole state is not doing well.”

Education Secretary Betsy DeVos: “Well, there are certainly lots of pockets where this—the students are doing well and”—

Lesley Stahl: “No, but your argument that if you take funds away, that the schools will get better, is not working in Michigan, where you had a huge impact and influence over the direction of the school system here.”

Education Secretary Betsy DeVos: “I hesitate to talk about all schools, in general, because schools are made up of individual students attending them.”

Lesley Stahl: “The public schools here are doing worse than they did.”

Education Secretary Betsy DeVos: “Michigan schools need to do better. There is no doubt about it.”