AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: We’re continuing our conversation with Mehdi Hasan, who is marking the first anniversary of his news site Zeteo, which he formed after leaving MSNBC. Mehdi, you’ve closely covered the war in Gaza, as well as the Trump administration, so if you could begin on Gaza?

MEHDI HASAN: On where we are right now?

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Mm-hmm.

MEHDI HASAN: I mean, some of us tried to say that Donald Trump would make things even worse. There was a big debate during the election campaign, where people, understandably, said, “It can’t get any worse.” And the one thing you know about U.S. politics is it can always get worse. And I think we’ve seen that with the Trump administration. He came in with this great fanfare. He had the fake ceasefire around the time of his inauguration. He got a bit of credit from some folks. We always knew it was never going to last. Netanyahu ended that ceasefire. They’re now killing people at rates even worse, in many ways, than 2024. You guys began the show talking about a hundred people killed in 24 hours. And the world is numb to that. You know, in October, November, December of 2023, it was a huge story. And today, people are shrugging their shoulders.

We’re talking about ethnic cleansing of Gaza, relocating the entire population. The Israeli government said this week that they will flatten everything that remains in Gaza. Netanyahu was quoted in Cabinet saying that “We don’t want — we don’t want to die with the Palestinians. We want them to die alone,” was Netanyahu’s phrase to his own Cabinet ministers. And, of course, Donald Trump himself has signed off on all of this. We’re now having a mass starvation campaign. During the Biden administration, it was bad enough saying, “Are we going to get a hundred trucks in? Two hundreds trucks in?” Zero trucks have gone into Gaza since March the 2nd.

AMY GOODMAN: And you talk about the depersonalizing Palestinians. In the United States, where the media manufactures consent, can you talk about the icing out of Palestinian voices? I mean, the fact that you’re no longer at MSNBC, that you were forced out of MSNBC after this incredible confrontation you had, questioning you had, interview with an Israeli spokesperson, and your ongoing coverage of bringing those voices out.

MEHDI HASAN: So, one thing I did at MSNBC — I was at MSNBC three-and-a-half years. And one thing, some of my colleagues — we had Ayman Mohyeldin at the premiere of the film last night, who still has a show at MSNBC, although he shares it now with three other hosts. But one thing we did, and one thing Joy Reid, who’s also left the network recently, had her show canceled — 

AMY GOODMAN: Was forced out of the network.

MEHDI HASAN: And Ali Velshi, who’s still at the network, thankfully, another great correspondent — something that some of us did was to try and platform Palestinian voices. One of the problems we have, as you say, is they are iced out. Americans don’t hear from Palestinians or Arabs or Muslims or people with actual expertise of the region or people who have spent time in Jenin, in the occupied West Bank, in Gaza. And that is a fundamental problem. You are getting a very one-sided view of the conflict.

What’s ironic, Amy, is the recent Pew poll that came out showed the American public is actually, for the first time, more sympathetic — less sympathetic to Israel, much more critical. I think was 52%. I can’t remember the exact number. But a majority of Americans were critical of Israel or not supportive of Israel, for the first time. And I looked at that number, and I thought, “Wow! A majority of Americans, a slim majority. That’s despite the media coverage in favor of Israel.” Imagine if Americans actually got fair coverage of this conflict and actually heard from Palestinians. Those numbers would be even higher.

And I think the real tragedy is that the media has been complicit in the Gaza genocide. I’ll give you one example. Over the last few weeks, Palestinians have been starved in Gaza by the Israelis, and according to one study, not a single Sunday show in this country has mentioned it.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Mehdi, I just want to ask you what we reported also in headlines, the Reuters exclusive, “US, Israel discuss possible US-led administration for Gaza, sources say.” They spoke to five people who corroborated reports that the U.S. and Israel are discussing the U.S. potentially leading a temporary postwar administration of Gaza. Your response?

MEHDI HASAN: “Kill me now” is my response. Kill me now. Or do we live in an episode of Idiocracy? The American government sat around — forget Donald Trump. Man’s an idiot, ignoramus, couldn’t find Gaza on a map. But people in his administration, qualified people, sat around the table and said, “Hmm, what should we do about Gaza, the biggest problem in the world today, geopolitical issue? Let’s do what we did in Iraq.” Right?

The Iraq — for those people who are watching who are not old enough to remember 2003, '04, ’05, I've interviewed Paul Bremer. The Bush administration sent a viceroy, sent Paul Bremer, to run the country, with a bunch of kids. Some of them were out — some of them had only — there was one guy who went out to the Green Zone, I famously remember, who had only run an ice cream truck in college. They sent a bunch of children and Paul Bremer to run Iraq like a colonial project. It was an absolute disaster. It increased sectarian tensions. It increased violence. It divided the country. It fomented more violent resistance.

The idea that the people of Gaza, who have resisted Israeli occupation for decades, are now going to say, “Well, we only had an issue with Israeli occupation. We’re fine with a U.S. occupation,” this is absurd. Some of us warned, since October the 7th, that if you really care about stopping Hamas, why are you creating the conditions for Hamas 2.0? And this is going to be Hamas 3.0, Hamas on steroids, if you create a situation where the American government or American military is on the ground in Gaza trying to control the population

AMY GOODMAN: I mean, don’t we have an idea? What did Trump tweet out? That — I mean, the video, the 30-second video —

MEHDI HASAN: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: — of Elon Musk —

MEHDI HASAN: With a gold statue of Trump, and —

AMY GOODMAN: A gold statue of Trump, and then Trump and — 

MEHDI HASAN: And Netanyahu on the beach.

AMY GOODMAN: — Netanyahu on the beach.

MEHDI HASAN: He loves his AI videos of himself. No, it’s an insane video. We all just moved on from it because there’s so much happening in the news, but I’m glad you reminded us. Look, he’s been consistently clear on one thing: ethnic cleansing, relocation of Palestinians, creating Gaza the Riviera. He’s obsessed with the beachfront property, because he’s a real estate guy/war criminal endorser.

AMY GOODMAN: A federal appeals court on Wednesday ordered the Trump administration to transfer the abducted Tufts Fulbright scholar, international student Rümeysa Öztürk —

MEHDI HASAN: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: — from Louisiana back to Vermont, where her case could be heard. You just interviewed the Massachusetts Congressmember — 

MEHDI HASAN: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: — Ayanna Pressley about her treatment?

MEHDI HASAN: Horrific treatment. We’re not just detaining foreign students in this country for speech crimes, Amy. We’re torturing them, too, if you listen to what happened to Badar Khan Suri, who’s a Georgetown student who was also detained, the torture that he’s gone through, the abuse, the sleeping on the floor, the denial of clean underwear, and now Rümeysa Öztürk. Ayanna Pressley, congresswoman, told me that when she went to see her, she was denied healthcare. She suffered severe asthma attacks. She had her hijab removed without consent. I mean, we are Louisiana — that detention center in Louisiana is famous for human rights crimes. So, why are people being sent from Vermont and Massachusetts and New York — Mahmoud Khalil — to Louisiana? That, in itself, is a question we should ask ourselves. We are — we’re torturing people, again.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: So, Mehdi —

MEHDI HASAN: For speech crimes.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: — in that same interview — 

MEHDI HASAN: Yeah.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: — Ayanna Pressley said to you, “This is not about the Trump administration. This is not about weathering the next four years. I believe this will dictate the next 100.” We have 30 seconds. Your response to that?

MEHDI HASAN: I think she’s right in many ways. I think we are in that historical period now. This is not just about Trump. You look at the global rise of fascism and authoritarianism. You look at what’s happening with Narendra Modi in India and Orbán in Hungary, Putin in Russia and Ukraine, Middle East autocrats. We are in that place where a democracy, the progress we made over the last 80 years, 100 years, is at stake, very much so.

AMY GOODMAN: And a judge just stopped immigrants from being sent to Libya on a U.S. military jet. And over 80 students were just arrested at Columbia, and Rubio said he’d pull international visas of students who are protesting. Your final thoughts in five seconds?

MEHDI HASAN: Fascism isn’t coming, Amy. It’s here.

AMY GOODMAN: Mehdi Hasan, the editor-in-chief of the media website Zeteo, which is celebrating its one-year anniversary this week. That does it for our show. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh, for another edition of Democracy Now!