AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn now to the issue of climate, which hasn’t come up that much during this presidential campaign, but it was addressed Thursday when CNN’s Dana Bash questioned Vice President Harris about her change in position on the methane gas drilling process known as fracking, which saw a boom in the U.S. and Canada and has been linked to a surge in methane gas emissions over the past decade, which are one of the biggest contributors to the climate crisis.

DANA BASH: When you were in Congress, you supported the Green New Deal. And in 2019, you said, quote, “There is no question I’m in favor of banning fracking.” Fracking, as you know, is a pretty big issue, particularly in your must-win state of Pennsylvania.

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: Sure.

DANA BASH: Do you still want to ban fracking?

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: No, and I made that clear on the debate stage in 2020, that I would not ban fracking. As vice president, I did not ban fracking. As president, I will not ban fracking.

DANA BASH: In 2019, I believe, in a town hall, you said — you were asked, “Would you commit to implementing a federal ban on fracking on your first day in office?” and you said, “There’s no question I’m in favor of banning fracking. So, yes.” So, it changed in that campaign?

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: In 2020, I made very clear where I stand. We are in 2024, and I have not changed that position, nor will I going forward. I kept my word, and I will keep my word.

DANA BASH: What made you change that position at the time?

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: Well, let’s be clear. My values have not changed. I believe it is very important that we take seriously what we must do to guard against what is a clear crisis in terms of the climate. And to do that, we can do what we have accomplished thus far — the Inflation Reduction Act, what we have done to invest, by my calculation, over probably a trillion dollars over the next 10 years investing in a clean energy economy, what we’ve already done creating over 300,000 new clean energy jobs. That tells me, from my experience as vice president, we can do it without banning fracking. In fact, Dana — Dana, excuse me — I cast the tie-breaking vote that actually increased leases for fracking —

DANA BASH: Yeah.

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: — as vice president. So I’m very clear about where I stand.

AMY GOODMAN: So, we turn now to David Sirota, founder and editor-in-chief of The Lever, host of its new investigative podcast, Master Plan. He’s also an Oscar-nominated co-writer of Don’t Look Up, that satirical film about a comet hurtling toward Earth, a metaphor for climate change. So, David, this change in position. When Kamala Harris was first running for president in 2019 — right? — she said she was against fracking. That’s primaries. She’s appealing to the base of the Democratic Party. But now she didn’t have to go through the primaries, and she’s appealing to the population at large. Can you respond to what she said?

DAVID SIROTA: Well, I think what was most problematic about what she said was that she said that the Inflation Reduction Act means that they can hit the carbon emissions targets that they want to hit, when in fact this year there was a report out, quite recently, saying that the Inflation Reduction Act has certainly reduced carbon emissions in the United States, but not nearly on track to what the Biden-Harris administration has projected and has pledged to hit by 2030. So, she’s saying the Inflation Reduction Act can bring down emissions without having to do anything like banning fracking, when the data says exactly the opposite, that there’s going to need to be much more done to reduce carbon emissions.

And I think the takeaway here is what we’ve seen from the Biden-Harris administration generally, which is they are willing to make real investments in the supply side of clean energy, they are willing to make real investments in the green energy economy, but they have shied away from policy that would reduce the supply of oil and gas. I mean, they have expanded leases. They have expanded fracking. They have expanded drilling on public lands beyond where even President Trump expanded it. And oil production has expanded to record levels in the United States.

That’s not going to be enough. It is good to invest in clean energy, for sure, but the data is telling us that what Kamala Harris said about fracking — that we can do it without dealing with reducing the supply of fossil fuels — it’s just now borne out by the numbers. And ultimately, the consequences for that will be on the United States, it will be for the entire world.

AMY GOODMAN: David Sirota, I want to ask you to stay with us for our next segment, founder and editor-in-chief of The Lever, to talk about your podcast, Master Plan. And we also want to thank the other members of the roundtable: Yousef Munayyer with the Arab Center; sociologist Nikhil Goyal, who is the author of Live to See the Day: Coming of Age in American Poverty; and longtime immigrant activist Erika Andiola. We’re back with David in a moment.