AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: We turn now to a new investigation into what a no-exceptions abortion ban looks like. Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Maria Hinojosa went to El Salvador, which has one of the world’s most restrictive anti-abortion laws, and looked at how women have been incarcerated after losing their babies. In the last two decades since the law was passed, it has prosecuted nearly 200 women for having obstetric emergencies.

This is an excerpt of the new episode of Latino USA, produced with Futuro Investigates in partnership with El Faro English. The voices include producer Monica Morales-Garcia and begins with host Maria Hinojosa.

MARIA HINOJOSA: We came to speak with women who have been incarcerated for what doctors here call obstetric emergencies, things like a miscarriage, una pérdida, or going into labor alone, hemorrhaging or having a stillbirth, emergencies that can have extreme consequences in a country under a total abortion ban.

MONICA MORALES-GARCIA: And though having a miscarriage or a stillbirth is not technically illegal here, medical professionals, police and judges avoid making distinctions, to steer clear of criminal prosecution for being involved in what the government might define as an abortion.

MARIA HINOJOSA: What does that look like in practice? Well, reports show doctors and nurses can end up calling the police when women are having a miscarriage. Let that sink in.

AMY GOODMAN: For more on this investigation, headlined “From Pregnancy to Murder Charge: Living Under a Total Abortion Ban,” we are joined by Maria Hinojosa, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, host of Latino USA, founder of Futuro Media, author of Once I Was You.

Welcome back to Democracy Now! This is powerful, profound and a warning. Talk about why you looked at this issue in El Salvador.

MARIA HINOJOSA: Well, Amy, it’s so great to be here with the both of you.

When I first heard this from a Salvadoran friend here, she said, “Ay, Maria, they’re putting women in prison in El Salvador for having a miscarriage.” I was like, I — this is misinformation. And I actually texted Cecile Richards — may she rest in peace — former president of Planned Parenthood. And I said, “Cecile, this is what I’m hearing. Is this true?” She said, “Yes.” And that’s when I said, “I’ve got to go. I have to see this.”

And I had a sensation that it was not just about seeing what’s happening in El Salvador, but we have a president — right? — that looks at El Salvador and says, “They have martial law. I want martial law. They put people in prison without any due process. I want to do that. Total abortion ban. Could it happen in the United States?” And that’s why I said I have to go. By the way, South Carolina, this will probably pass early 2026 in South Carolina. This could start to happen here in the United States.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, how many women in El Salvador have been incarcerated?

MARIA HINOJOSA: It’s really hard to say. So, the women who we met, who spent time in prison, who were charged — in one case, Teo, who was left alone, gave birth, woke up hemorrhaging, and her baby was dead. They never told her how or why. She told me and others that she believes that 90% of the women who are in prison in El Salvador are in prison for this.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Even now.

MARIA HINOJOSA: Even now. The thing is hard to believe, but if you are a woman in prison in El Salvador and you come in with this charge, you are treated worse than a woman pedophile. So, you are beaten, you are spit upon, you are denied food, you are tortured, because of this particular charge. Therefore, the women don’t ever say, “I’m here because of this.” And that’s why it’s very hard to get a hold of the numbers. But you have to trust the people who actually were inside those prisons, like Teo.

AMY GOODMAN: You’re talking about Bukele’s El Salvador, the close ally of Trump. Trump sent hundreds of men to the CECOT prison, a place you tried to get into, but Bukele personally said, no, you couldn’t get into that prison. Relate that to the total abortion ban and what’s happening to women and the fightback of leading feminists there.

MARIA HINOJOSA: Right. So, I know when we were going to El Salvador, and I was like, “We want to get into CECOT. We want to get into the women’s prison,” and our producer down there was just like — you know, I’m like, “Who else should we appeal to?” And he was like, “Yeah, no. Ultimately, Bukele decides who from the outside gets into the prison.” So, he knows that we were attempting to get into both CECOT and the women’s prisons. We know he said no.

The reality is that the Bukele administration has such control over everything. That night — I was in El Salvador the night the first planes left from the United States taking removed people from the United States into El Salvador. But it was all done in the cover of darkness, which is the code here, “the cover of darkness.”

But there is a shining light. As you know, at Futuro Media, we really believe in showing media that has, well, truth, but also hope. The women, like Teo, who spent — she was sentenced to 30 years. She spent 11. She came out —

AMY GOODMAN: One of the Las 17?

MARIA HINOJOSA: I’m sorry?

AMY GOODMAN: One of the Las 17?

MARIA HINOJOSA: One of the — one of Las Diecisiete, yes, one of the original. Las Diecisiete is how it all started. This is the 17 women who became public about the fact that they were in prison for having a miscarriage or a stillborn. She now has a halfway house. They run theater programs for formerly incarcerated women. They have dance programs. They exercise. I’m going to be exercising with them together on Zoom. Now that the story is out, I can do that. So, they are hopeful, right? And that is the light at the end of the tunnel.

As you know, Amy, because we’ve covered it for so long, El Salvador has a complicated political history of which the United States is a huge part of. But the women’s movement, the feminist movement, is still there, still present, still targeted by Bukele. But they are not quiet. They are not silenced.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to do a Spanish interview with you after the show, and we’re going to post it online at democracynow.org. Maria Hinojosa, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, host of Latino USA, founder of Futuro Media, last 20 seconds. The feminist movement, do you think they can prevail there?

MARIA HINOJOSA: A dictator does not last forever. This cannot last forever. The only way it changes is with people power. Just as Raoul Peck said, it’s what each of us decide to do with this moment.

AMY GOODMAN: And do you think they represent the majority view in El Salvador?

MARIA HINOJOSA: And I think that it’s changing. I think that — I think that people are seeing this, and they are getting horrified. And they’re not necessarily that much safer.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to thank you so much for being with us. We’re going to link to link to “From Pregnancy to Murder Charge: Living Under a Total Abortion Ban.”

As we end today’s show with the words of the renowned primatologist and conservationist Jane Goodall, who’s died at the age of 91. We interviewed her at the Paris climate summit in 2015.

JANE GOODALL: Well, I listened to Donald Trump saying, you know, that he doesn’t believe that we’ve caused or are causing climate change, and some of the other right-wing leaders, and I just ask myself, “Do they really believe what they’re saying?” Because it seems so very obvious. If you read the facts, I don’t see how you can come to any other conclusion but that it’s our misuse of fossil fuels, the emissions — from agriculture, from industry, from households — the vast impact that’s being made by this intensive farming of animals.

AMY GOODMAN: Jane Goodall has died at the age of 91. We interviewed her a number of times on Democracy Now!, most recently back in 2015 at the Paris climate summit. To see that full interview and all the others, go to democracynow.org.

This coming weekend, I’ll be speaking Saturday, October 4th, at the Roxie Theater in San Francisco after the showing of Steal This Story, Please, a new documentary about Democracy Now!, and on Sunday, October 5th, in Berkeley at BAMPFA for the Q&A after. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh, for another edition of Democracy Now!