AMY GOODMAN: As the Israeli blockade of Gaza continues, we’re going now to get an update on the nearly 50-boat flotilla currently some 150 nautical miles from Gaza. One of those on board the Global Sumud Flotilla is Nkosi Zwelivelile “Mandla” Mandela, the grandson of Nelson Mandela, the global icon for the struggle against apartheid, who became South Africa’s first democratically elected president after he was freed from prison for almost three decades. Mandla joins us now from the boat.

Welcome to Democracy Now! Can you talk about where you are and why you’re on this Global Sumud Flotilla?

NKOSI ZWELIVELILE MANDELA: Good afternoon to everyone. We are currently on the Mediterranean Sea and have entered the yellow zone, which in the next 20 hours we should be entering the red zone, where many of the flotillas previously have been intercepted, abducted by the Israeli forces.

We, as the delegation from South Africa, joined the Global Sumud Flotilla from the southern tip of Africa, going to the northern tip of Africa in Tunisia, because we wanted to come together, united as Africans, to sail under one mission with the other participants who had sailed from Barcelona. But for us, this Global Sumud Flotilla is about the unity of Africans, but also the Global South coming together with the Global North in standing and showing its solidarity towards the Palestinian cause. We, therefore, are in the Mediterranean Sea with about 50 boats that are sailing to Gaza in a means to break the blockade and end the siege that has been ongoing for the past 17 years.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Mandla Mandela, could you talk about the unprecedented attacks of the Israeli government on this flotilla, the various drones that it’s unleashed against some of the boats?

NKOSI ZWELIVELILE MANDELA: Well, it has been clear that the apartheid state of Israel is not only a threat to Palestinians, but is a threat to the region and to the entire global community. We have seen them attacking Yemen, attacking Lebanon, Syria, Iran. And of late, we saw them attack Qatar, including the Global Sumud Flotilla whilst it was in Tunisia, therefore violating the sovereignty of Tunisia.

But we were also subjected to drone attacks, where several of our ships, particularly the sailing ships, were damaged and have not been able to continue with the rest of the journey. But this was an attempt by the apartheid state of Israel to instill fear amongst our participants and break our morale. But they’ve simply united us and brought us closer together. We are more than ever determined to get the humanitarian aid that is much needed by our brothers and sisters in Gaza.

AMY GOODMAN: A number of people around the world call Israel an apartheid state. But it has particular meaning, Mandla Mandela, when you say it, from South Africa, your grandfather, of course, Nelson Mandela, the first democratically elected president of South Africa, imprisoned for so long. Your country, South Africa, has brought the genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice. Can you talk about what this means to you, and what it means to South Africa, that you’ve got a delegation of South Africans on board? And what are you bringing to Gaza? Do you expect to actually land? The previous flotillas were prevented from landing by Israel. And also, did the Italian ship from the Italian Navy come out to, I guess they said, save people, protect people?

NKOSI ZWELIVELILE MANDELA: Well, we, so far as the delegation from South Africa, draw our lessons from our previous experiences. Many of South Africans that have been to the Occupied Territories in the West Bank, including those that have gone to Gaza, have come back with one conclusion, that the Palestinians are experiencing a far worse form of apartheid than we ever experienced. And the last two years have been an indication of what truly is being experienced in Gaza, in particular. The genocide and ethnic cleansing that we have witnessed has been horrific and a shock to the entire global community.

But many of us have been able to rise and utilize our voices — we, as South Africans, knowing very well that we are beneficiaries of international solidarity. Those that rallied behind our cause and stood side by side in supporting the anti-apartheid movement ensured that we attained our freedom in our lifetime. And this is why today we utilize our voice to support the oppressed and most vulnerable nations across the globe. And in this regard, we are determined, in being part of this Global Sumud Flotilla, to ensure that we mobilize the global community, just as they supported us, to support the Palestinian cause.

We have seen the tide turning, with every major protest and marches in every city and every town across the globe, is an indication that the tide has turned in favor of the Palestinian struggle. More than ever, we are certain that we will be able to get to the shores of Gaza. This is the largest flotilla ever witnessed historically. So, in any maritime mission, this is the largest flotilla that has been ever seen.

But again, we have a humanitarian mission, a nonviolent mission, that is now supported and protected by the navy, that has been provided particularly from Italy, Spain. And yesterday, we had the Turkish naval ships come on, as well, providing the much-needed humanitarian aid. And we continue to call on governments to do their work. If governments remain silent, we, the people, will not.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: I wanted to ask you also — during the U.N. General Assembly, Colombian President Gustavo Petro, when he was in New York, called for an international force to stop — to stop Israel’s genocide in Gaza. As a legislator in South Africa, would you support your government’s joining such an international force, or propose it?

NKOSI ZWELIVELILE MANDELA: Well, we must first understand that the self-defense and self-determination for the Palestinians is enshrined in international law. And in this regard, as governments across the globe begin recognizing Palestine as a sovereign state, they should also protect the rights of that sovereignty. In this regard, the president of Colombia is within international law to ensure that a peacekeeping mission is deployed in Gaza to end the genocide, end the systematic ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. So, we do continue as civil society to exact pressure on our representatives in parliaments to ensure that their governments are able to have an arms embargo against the apartheid state of Israel. But more importantly, what will effectively ensure that the genocide is brought to an end is to deploy a military intervention, so that we can be able to bring about everlasting peace in Gaza.

AMY GOODMAN: Nkosi Zwelivelile “Mandla” Mandela, grandson of Nelson Mandela, speaking to us from the Mediterranean Sea, part of the Global Sumud Flotilla, a former member of the South African Parliament. And Diana Buttu, 30 seconds on your response to the significance of this flotilla, and how much attention it’s getting where you are in occupied West Bank, Ramallah, not to mention Gaza?

DIANA BUTTU: The significance of it is huge, because for the first time we’re seeing that mainstream media is now starting to follow this flotilla. But beyond that, it’s actually lifting up the spirits of those in Gaza who have seen and feel that the world has abandoned them. And now we see that there are some nearly 50 ships, people who from around the world are saying — and challenging this siege, and saying that they, the people of Gaza, are not forgotten, this blockade will be challenged, and that they are standing in solidarity with everybody from Gaza. We’re seeing messages from the people of Gaza welcoming this Sumud Flotilla. And so, the significance of it cannot be — cannot be overstated.

AMY GOODMAN: Diana Buttu, Palestinian human rights attorney, former adviser to the negotiating team of the Palestine Liberation Organization, speaking to us from Ramallah in the occupied West Bank.

When we come back, the U.S. government appears to be headed to a shutdown tonight. Stay with us.

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AMY GOODMAN: Steve Earle, performing in our Democracy Now! studio.