AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González, as we turn to Washington, D.C.

On Thursday, President Trump fired Kristi Noem, the secretary of homeland security. He announced the decision on social media and said Republican Senator Markwayne Mullin of Oklahoma would take over. Noem has been facing intensifying calls to resign or be impeached over her disastrous handling of Trump’s immigration raids nationwide.

She was grilled by lawmakers earlier this week at a series of hearings on Capitol Hill. This is Republican Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina questioning Noem about the shooting deaths of U.S. citizens Renee Good and Alex Pretti in Minneapolis.

SEN. THOM TILLIS: The fact that you can’t admit to a mistake, which looks like under investigation is going to prove that Miss Good and Mr. Pretti probably should not have been shot in the face and in the back. Law enforcement needs to learn from that. You don’t protect them by not looking after the facts. Not only should the FBI be investigating it, but every single law enforcement agency in that jurisdiction should be invited to it, so our law enforcement officers do not have this pall cast upon them.

AMY GOODMAN: Noem was also widely accused of corruption. In one instance, she oversaw a self-promotional Department of Homeland Security advertising campaign that cost $220 million. The no-bid contract was awarded to a newly formed limited liability company, which then subcontracted with The Strategy Group, a company whose CEO, Ben Yoho, is married to Noem’s former assistant secretary at DHS, Tricia McLaughlin, who just left. This is Republican Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana.

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: You’re testifying that President Trump approved this ahead of time? Is that my understanding?

HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: We had conversations about making sure that we were telling people — 

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: No, ma’am. I’m asking you — sorry to interrupt, but the president approved ahead of time you spending $220 million running TV ads across the country in which you are featured prominently. President —

HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: Yes, sir, we went through the legal processes, did it correctly, worked with OMB.

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: Did the president know you were going to do this?

HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: Yes.

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: He did?

HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: Mm-hmm, yes.

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY: OK.

AMY GOODMAN: President Trump said in an interview with Reuters he had not signed off on the spending.

While Noem is being removed as DHS secretary, President Trump said she’ll stay in the administration in a newly created role, special envoy to the Shield of the Americas, an initiative Trump said would be formally announced this weekend in a summit in Miami. We’ll talk more about that later in the broadcast.

But first, for more on Noem’s ouster and her replacement, we’re joined by two guests. Chris Stein is the senior politics reporter for The Guardian US, his most recent piece headlined “Trump fires homeland security secretary Kristi Noem.” He’s joining us from Washington, D.C. In New York, Justin Elliott, reporter for ProPublica, co-author of several investigative reports on Kristi Noem, including the most recent, “Kristi Noem Misled Congress About Top Aide’s Role in DHS Contracts.”

Lay out, Justin, if you will, the corruption allegations against Noem. And again, she has not been entirely removed from the Trump administration, just moved to a different role at this point.

JUSTIN ELLIOTT: Yeah, I mean, the precipitating event that led to her firing was that exchange you played with the Republican Senator Kennedy from Louisiana about this ad campaign. And this ad campaign’s been going on, actually, for — you know, since the very beginning of the Trump administration, as you said, $220 million of taxpayer money for these ads, some of which featured Noem on horseback in front of Mount Rushmore. And, you know, this did not go through the normal competitive process, went to a Delaware LLC that was formed only a few days before, before getting this absolutely massive contract. We reported that one of the subcontractors, as you mentioned, was a Republican media firm run by the husband of the former — now former DHS spokesperson, Tricia McLaughlin. You know, it turned out they actually got a relatively small amount of money, but more money went to a couple of other Republican media firms that handled the ad buying for President Trump’s campaign.

And I will say that, you know, in sort of partial defense of Noem on this, if President Trump or the White House had a problem with this ad campaign, you know, this was no secret. It was announced by press release a year ago. The ads were literally running on Fox & Friends, which President Trump watches. President Trump is featured in the ads, not just Kristi Noem. They look like sort of campaign-style ads promoting both Noem and Trump. So, I will say the official story here about the White House being upset about these ads is a little bit peculiar.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Justin, could you also talk about, in the hearings that were held, the focus also on the role of Corey Lewandowski as a special government employee under Kristi Noem?

JUSTIN ELLIOTT: Absolutely. So, people may remember Lewandowski. He was the Trump campaign manager way back in 2016. He was occupying this, I think, unprecedented role where he was technically a volunteer, not drawing a government salary, but was effectively co-running the department alongside Noem. What that means is that he’s actually permitted to have some types of outside income, unlike any other normal government official.

So, one of the major unanswered — still unanswered questions is: Who was paying Lewandowski? How was he paying the rent? Was he being paid by companies, lobbying firms, at the same time that he was, you know, essentially, co-running one of those powerful agencies in the government? By the way, we’re still reporting on that. Please get in touch with me if anyone out there has information about it.

But Noem was asked about this at the hearing, and she denied that he has a role in approving contracts. We reported, based on documents that we obtained, that he was literally signing off on contracts. So, that was not a correct, you know, description of what his actual role has been at DHS.

AMY GOODMAN: Not only signing off on contracts, as you pointed out, but was in her office firing people. And, of course, there was a number of questions by the senators and the congressmembers — there were two days of hearings — about her having an affair with someone who was supposedly reporting to her, though she ultimately said, no, he is reporting to President Trump.

I wanted to bring Chris Stein into this conversation, the senior politics reporter for The Guardian US. The question is, as you report on Noem’s ouster and now the Oklahoma Senator Markwayne Mullin being — Trump saying that — nominating him for this position in the Cabinet: Isn’t she just the face of the immigration policies of the Trump administration crafted by Trump and Stephen Miller, Stephen Miller the architect of them? Talk about Markwayne Mullin and his stance on immigration. I mean, a lot of issues were raised about her calling the U.S. citizens who were killed by immigration agents “domestic terrorists” before there was any kind of investigation or even evidence of this. I wanted to turn first to Jamie Raskin of Maryland questioning Noem over those statements.

REP. JAMIE RASKIN: Based on what you know today, Madam Secretary, were Renee Good and Alex Pretti domestic terrorists?

HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: Congressman, what happened in Minnesota in those two incidents was an absolute tragedy. And I offered my condolences —

REP. JAMIE RASKIN: Were they domestic terrorists, as you said to the country?

HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: — offered my condolences to their families, because I know that their lives will never be the same after that happened. What I would —

REP. JAMIE RASKIN: Is that an apology for what you said?

HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: We, in those instances, offer as much information as we can from officers and agents on the ground in a chaotic scene that gets relayed to us — 

REP. JAMIE RASKIN: I’ll repeat my question.

HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: — so that we can communicate [inaudible] —

REP. JAMIE RASKIN: Reclaiming my time. Based on what you know today — Madam Secretary, based on what you know today, were Renee Good and Alex Pretti domestic terrorists?

HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: As you know, there’s ongoing investigations that are being led by the FBI.

REP. JAMIE RASKIN: Oh, but you didn’t wait for the investigation, did you? You didn’t wait for the evidence. You proclaimed that they were domestic terrorists at the time.

AMY GOODMAN: So, Chris Stein, if you can comment on this interaction, but also what Markwayne Mullin brings to this, the senator now nominated to be secretary of the Department of Homeland Security?

CHRIS STEIN: Well, what you just said, you know, regarding how Noem was the face of immigration policy that really came from Stephen Miller at the White House, and, of course, it was approved by Donald Trump, is exactly what top Democrats said, you know, right after the ouster of Noem was announced and Markwayne Mullin was announced as her replacement. You know, they have their own set of demands for the Department of Homeland Security. And, you know, they basically said that, “No matter who leads it, we’re going to continue pursuing these demands.”

You know, the person that has been chosen, Senator Mullin from Oklahoma, is someone who, when I encounter him at the Capitol, you know, I know he’s going to kind of defend the president on the issue of the day. He’s not a senator known for opposing President Trump or getting ahead of him or, you know, having daylight between him in any way. And when it comes to the issue of immigration, he has been known as a hard-liner, you know, has come forward making statements about ways in which he believes people who are here without documentation can be cracked down on or encouraged to leave, or things that are happening in the immigration system that he thinks needs to be fixed. So, he clearly has thoughts on this subject. He’s not someone who the president has ever, you know, trouble with. He often talks to the press. He’s out and about saying these things. So, in that way, he is, you know, kind of an ideal pick to lead the Department of Homeland Security, from the president’s perspective.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Chris, what about Mullin’s own previous business activities and the potential conflicts of interest as the new secretary of homeland security?

CHRIS STEIN: He ran a plumbing business prior to winning election to the House of Representatives in 2012. He was also an MMA fighter. You know, he’s been in politics now for about 15 years. You know, I don’t think he necessarily has the same sorts of entanglements that we saw with Kristi Noem and Corey Lewandowski. At least we don’t know of anything like that yet.

AMY GOODMAN: Back in November 2023 during a Senate hearing, Oklahoma Senator Markwayne Mullin challenged Teamster Sean O’Brien to a fight, with Committee Chair Senator Bernie Sanders stepping in to defuse the situation as Mullin got up from his seat to confront O’Brien.

SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN: You want to run your mouth, we can be two consenting adults. We can finish it here.

SEAN O’BRIEN: OK, that’s fine, perfect.

SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN: You want to do it now?

SEAN O’BRIEN: I’d love to do it right now.

SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN: Well, stand your butt up then.

SEAN O’BRIEN: You stand your butt up, big guy.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: Oh, hold up. No. Stop it. All right, hold it.

SEAN O’BRIEN: Is that your solution to every problem?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: Oh no, sit down. Sit down.

SEAN O’BRIEN: That’s why you’re a clown. Look at you.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: No, no, you’re a United States senator.

AMY GOODMAN: Chris Stein?

CHRIS STEIN: When I think about that clip, it was obviously, you know, pretty eyebrow-raising at the time, quite a thing to have happen in the middle of a Senate committee hearing. But then the Teamsters went on to, you know, not endorse in the 2024 election, even when in the past they endorsed Democrats. You know, that certainly isn’t the reason why Kamala Harris lost. But, you know, you saw Sean O’Brien and speak at the Republican National Convention, but not the Democratic National Convention. So, for all the fireworks there, at the end of the day, they ended up actually helping out Senator Mullin’s side much more than they did the Democrats.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you both for being with us, Chris Stein, senior politics reporter for The Guardian US, and Justin Elliott, reporter for ProPublica. We’ll link to both your pieces at democracynow.org.

Coming up, this weekend, President Trump is going to preside over a gathering of right-wing leaders from across Latin America in Florida, as he threatens to target Cuba next. Stay with us.

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AMY GOODMAN: “John Walker’s Blues” by Steve Earle, performing in our Democracy Now! studio.